* Powered by Crusoe 0.13 micron TM5800 processor at up to 1GHz
* 10GB hard drive with storage for thousands of songs or three full length movies
* 256MB memory
* four inch, high-resolution super bright VGA color LCD
* Synaptics touchscreen
* Advanced lithium polymer battery
* 1394 FireWire, USB, audio out, OQO-link docking connector, microphone
* Built in 802.11 and Bluetooth wireless networking
* 4.1" x 2.9" x 0.9" / 105mm x 74mm x 22mm; less than 9 oz. / 250 grams
i have a hell of a lot more than three movies on my 10 GB drive. of course they aren't dvd quality, but who needs that? not on a 5" screen!
besides the fujitsu B series looks better than this...
just one part seg faulted. the mail viewer i guess. the rest was still up.:-)
damn, i can't remember what i did. i had a compose window open.
i also have trouble with it when i select everything in a window. if i drag the cursor way out of the window. it jumps up and down on the last page of text until i put the cursor back in the window. then i can select the whole text.
i also had trouble when i first "imported" my mbox files from mozilla. everything that was in a subfolder remained there. but i got another copy of it in the parent. now my mbox files are like that permanently. no it's not a vfolder thing.
i don't get what the infatuation is with washing after being in the bathroom. the infatuation has led it to be the most highly cleaned room in our building, certainly cleaner than my office.
if i were to piss or crap on my hands, then sure, i'd wash them. otherwise it's just a waste of water, soap, paper towels, and my time.
the thing I HATE is when people don't dry enough and get the door handle all wet. I can never remember if they really washed, or if it's said piss.
if BrettGlass's arguments on people wanting the free product so badly are taken as true, then it should get him and his company off its fat ass and develop a product and/or market that would be competitive and superior to the free product!
i see no reason this wouldn't help many markets.
others' arguments on cost of relicensing and stripping other trademarks etc are more pertinant. just look at the cost netscape had to incur to release mozilla!
oh, and most of the vertical space is taken up by the substrate not by the devices. so they are technically shrinking because the upper layers in 3D won't have as much substrate.
and another thing, they DO strink vertically, as the gate oxide is thinned the electric field grows, thus sucking the channel in tighter to the top. so we don't need as much S/D capacitance, etc. Look at SOI for technology which harnesses this.
you make a good argument about design tools. but this is just 2D stacks with big vias, i thinkt he vias are actually off to the side in their existing technology.
anyway, cadence and others can do stuff in 3D. you just make another layer that will be used as an interlayer via and line them up so they don't hit stuff just like in the classical method. you can even stick in your own design rules so that they aren't too close, etc. just make one design for one layer, another for the other layer, superimpose, align, via, connect, and BAM! yer done.
(yes i've done this before):-)
agreed, it's mostly 1-D.
the channels are so thin, and short that basically the electrons/holes just shoot across (short channel effects aside). the width is primarily used by logic designers to account for loading (like multiple lanes on the highway).
now, device people have to take all 3D into account, but they basically end up back in a 1D approximation that works.
As far as the process guy people are concerned it's all in 3D and your cube with little windows is how doping works now. One doesn't need little windows, the dopants are injected or diffused into it. The "windows" are then closed by reducing the temperature, or "activated" by annealing.
in this case it is just stacked 2D, there is lots of research in the area of stacked 2D, both for real-estate (some phones have stacked processor/mem chips in them now. they are just connected with traditional wafer bonds)
and some for performance (like Matrix Semi.)
"lattice of atoms completely ordered throughout the chip we've got to think outside the box, this guy's inside the box, "
: actually he IS outside the box he's trying to use little bits of single crystal Si and fit his devices inside each little piece. that is VERY difficult and requires insane processing technology and alignment. OR in his case, reduntant ckts and error checking.
crystals are grown in 3d. they jsut can't be grown ontop of other stuff, or even on itself very easily without getting massive dislocations, etc.
in memory heat won't be much of an issue as stuff doesn't all switch at once and bits are stored in capacitors anyway (DRAM). but in logic the heat could be bad and all stacked on top if itself. heat pipes or vias JUST for the heat may be necessary.
they are sort of the same thing. you are talking about what is used all the time for rapid prototyping. SLA or stereo lithography. notice the word "lithography".:-)
in their form of 3D chips (lots of other ways to do this), they lay down layers of poly, then laser anneal to get bigger single crystal grains, then mask and etch just like conventional silicon. So it is sort of the same...In that a laser is used to form the poly, and in your example a laser is used to 'crystalize" the shape. In their chips ultra-violet lasers and photoresist, then etch, is used to make the shapes.
I think it is somewhat futile to try to combine them when they are already so similar and the outcome is already determined, and existing technologies exist. but it is an interesting parallel.
heat dissipation is an unfortunate (in this case) law of nature here. (also called the laws of thermodynamics)
The way transistors work just happens to waste a bit of energy when conducting (and not conducting, too). New technologies, including feature size shrinkage and SOI WILL help the power dissipation issue. at this feature size they _could_ put fewer transistors per square mm and get less power density and still more transistors than today to decrease the heat output. But this won't happen since people want max performance. They will always go for max performance in their heat and power budget (which is governed by air cooling right now).
Now, reducing the power, or Vdd, will also reduce power density, but this requires tighter control over threshold voltage and thus the oxide interface and possibly thinner gate oxide. New technologies will answer these problems too.
This all takes a long time. for now just go buy one of those sun systems which runs at 50W!:-)
what's wrong with you?
don't you know about design cycles and that they HAVE designed stuff that advances the chips of tomorrow? they did this 5 years ago,
stuff like MOCVD, e-beam lithography, etc, etc, etc.
it takes a LONG time to get transistors into products. Look at SOI and SiGe, the first SiGe HBT was fabricated in ~1970. they are only now making it into products. SOI has been in the works for 10 years, and they are still only using partially depleted channels because of clean interface issues.
hmmmm... you could use their high K dielectric for that since they are depositing it only under the gate. so you could put it where you want decoupling caps between M1 and M4 or Mwhatever.
but the poster was asking about high K under the gate which raises their concern on high turn on C. (see my post below)
for the depleted substrate explanation see my post above:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=24164&thresh ol d=0&commentsort=3&mode=thread&pid=2615361#2615436
the Si layer above the insulator reduces recombination and leakage which plagues SOI.
they may even be able to ground this thin layer to reduce the "floating substrate" problem in SOI. but then i think punchthrough will be a problem.
as for the gate dielectric this is where we can't use low K as we NEED higher capacitance to modulate the channel. The higher K allows a thinner oxide increasing the control over teh channel and we can thus further invert the channel. especially with gate lengths getting so short.
We want low K dielectrics in the matal layers for the reasons you stated (lower cap.).
this is a big increment for intel and the industry.
that said, the diff here is that the buffer of "depleted" (very low doped?) Si reduces interface states that occur at the insulator/semi boundary (the "bottom" one). so there will be less recombination, and more of the current will go out the contacts rather than leaking along the bottom of the substrate.
i wonder how they will deal with the floating substrate affect like in SOI?
i think intel must have been scrambling for a good SOI competetor for a while now. maybe they'll actually switch to copper/low K as well?
i agree whole heartedly.
but the goal of free software and in this case gnome may not be best served if they concentrate on integration with proprietary software. i can't really think of an example...
But it is still absolutely necesary IMO to allow users ANY freedoms. as the above AC said.
the integration and therefore free marketing of proprietary softs in a free software product should be secondary to its own features and integration with othe rfree software.
i second that!
RMS has great ideals and i admire his strife.
But i think there are commercial softwares that realistically can't be replaced with free (as in beer) ones in a tight time frame. It is necessary to therefore try as best we can to integrate the free with the necessary ($$ softs). CAD tools for instance. I'd love to run cadence and/or Pro/E on my gnome desktop linux cluster and get stuff done faster than my collegues on ultra 10s!
but as one user pointed out maybe we need a smarter shell to deal with recursive PATHs.
i hate package managers as much as the next person, but i feel like a smart shell to expand recursive variables would help even though it does take _some_ control away from the power user just as package managers do. (aptget the exception).
the symlink thing doesn't work for a lot of apps because they are too dumb to load libraries from their "home" directory if it's not where the binary is. (ahem, NETSCAPE)
so the symlink thing doesn't complicate your PATH just gives you 2000 $APP_HOME variables.
what i never got, nor investigated, was why the config didn't use an autoconf, et al. TYPE of system. obviously it would have to be different.
but i get really annoyed when each time i config i have to go into every single damn section to make sure shit i don't need is turned off. now of course i know how to move my.config files around. but i still have to check.
i hope CLM2 can/will provide some structure to allow one global file that will provide my basic system structure and will turn off all the crap i don't want (am radio for instance i prolly won't use in the near future).
now THAT is a great idea. MOD this UP!
it IS what he's looking for.
the new IPAQ is a 233 strongARM or something ridiculous right?
just get a keyboard and you are all set.
that is as portable as i need.
all my machines are setup for remote access anyway so i can use them from wherever i am.
do up your code in emacs on the IPAQ,
maybe even run the parser, but do the compiling and linking on your powerboxen later.
cooool
Slashdot Mirror
happcontrols.com
games are EMULATED. one needs that much power for lots of newer games, and quite a bit more than 1MHz for even the classics.
* Powered by Crusoe 0.13 micron TM5800 processor at up to 1GHz
* 10GB hard drive with storage for thousands of songs or three full length movies
* 256MB memory
* four inch, high-resolution super bright VGA color LCD
* Synaptics touchscreen
* Advanced lithium polymer battery
* 1394 FireWire, USB, audio out, OQO-link docking connector, microphone
* Built in 802.11 and Bluetooth wireless networking
* 4.1" x 2.9" x 0.9" / 105mm x 74mm x 22mm; less than 9 oz. / 250 grams
i have a hell of a lot more than three movies on my 10 GB drive. of course they aren't dvd quality, but who needs that? not on a 5" screen!
besides the fujitsu B series looks better than this...
i got 1.0.3 to crash yesterday.
:-)
just one part seg faulted. the mail viewer i guess. the rest was still up.
damn, i can't remember what i did. i had a compose window open.
i also have trouble with it when i select everything in a window. if i drag the cursor way out of the window. it jumps up and down on the last page of text until i put the cursor back in the window. then i can select the whole text.
i also had trouble when i first "imported" my mbox files from mozilla. everything that was in a subfolder remained there. but i got another copy of it in the parent.
now my mbox files are like that permanently. no it's not a vfolder thing.
-eric
that's cuz that's how much they cost. try to find a 1 F cap that is 24V+
they aren't cheap.
granted "street wires" and the like get their hands on them, gold plate the contacts, slap their label on them and double the price.
and it wasn't the "heat of the spark" that did the welding.
:-)
it was the current passing through the electrodes and the head of the hammer that melted them.
but that's a small detail.
AFAIK they are illegal.
but, as always, IANAL
do you think they piss on their hands?
i don't get what the infatuation is with washing after being in the bathroom. the infatuation has led it to be the most highly cleaned room in our building, certainly cleaner than my office.
if i were to piss or crap on my hands, then sure, i'd wash them. otherwise it's just a waste of water, soap, paper towels, and my time.
the thing I HATE is when people don't dry enough and get the door handle all wet. I can never remember if they really washed, or if it's said piss.
you could hack together a simple script to get TV listings from any of the free listing sites very easily, then this is a moot point.
BUT, commercial PVRs are small, quiet, and look nice in your entertainment center dealy. this can be done also, with some ingenuity.
and anyway, a commercial product that is this cool and hardware heavy is begging to be hacked simply because WE CAN.
major props to the communitay!
another reason it should help in general is this:
if BrettGlass's arguments on people wanting the free product so badly are taken as true, then it should get him and his company off its fat ass and develop a product and/or market that would be competitive and superior to the free product!
i see no reason this wouldn't help many markets.
others' arguments on cost of relicensing and stripping other trademarks etc are more pertinant. just look at the cost netscape had to incur to release mozilla!
oh, and most of the vertical space is taken up by the substrate not by the devices. so they are technically shrinking because the upper layers in 3D won't have as much substrate.
and another thing, they DO strink vertically, as the gate oxide is thinned the electric field grows, thus sucking the channel in tighter to the top. so we don't need as much S/D capacitance, etc. Look at SOI for technology which harnesses this.
you make a good argument about design tools. but this is just 2D stacks with big vias, i thinkt he vias are actually off to the side in their existing technology.
:-)
anyway, cadence and others can do stuff in 3D. you just make another layer that will be used as an interlayer via and line them up so they don't hit stuff just like in the classical method. you can even stick in your own design rules so that they aren't too close, etc. just make one design for one layer, another for the other layer, superimpose, align, via, connect, and BAM! yer done.
(yes i've done this before)
agreed, it's mostly 1-D.
:-)
the channels are so thin, and short that basically the electrons/holes just shoot across (short channel effects aside). the width is primarily used by logic designers to account for loading (like multiple lanes on the highway).
now, device people have to take all 3D into account, but they basically end up back in a 1D approximation that works.
As far as the process guy people are concerned it's all in 3D and your cube with little windows is how doping works now. One doesn't need little windows, the dopants are injected or diffused into it. The "windows" are then closed by reducing the temperature, or "activated" by annealing.
in this case it is just stacked 2D, there is lots of research in the area of stacked 2D, both for real-estate (some phones have stacked processor/mem chips in them now. they are just connected with traditional wafer bonds)
and some for performance (like Matrix Semi.)
"lattice of atoms completely ordered throughout the chip we've got to think outside the box, this guy's inside the box, "
: actually he IS outside the box he's trying to use little bits of single crystal Si and fit his devices inside each little piece. that is VERY difficult and requires insane processing technology and alignment. OR in his case, reduntant ckts and error checking.
crystals are grown in 3d. they jsut can't be grown ontop of other stuff, or even on itself very easily without getting massive dislocations, etc.
i hope this made sense.
-eric
they won't really be cubes as you say.
in memory heat won't be much of an issue as stuff doesn't all switch at once and bits are stored in capacitors anyway (DRAM). but in logic the heat could be bad and all stacked on top if itself. heat pipes or vias JUST for the heat may be necessary.
they are sort of the same thing. you are talking about what is used all the time for rapid prototyping. SLA or stereo lithography. notice the word "lithography". :-)
..In that a laser is used to form the poly, and in your example a laser is used to 'crystalize" the shape. In their chips ultra-violet lasers and photoresist, then etch, is used to make the shapes.
in their form of 3D chips (lots of other ways to do this), they lay down layers of poly, then laser anneal to get bigger single crystal grains, then mask and etch just like conventional silicon. So it is sort of the same.
I think it is somewhat futile to try to combine them when they are already so similar and the outcome is already determined, and existing technologies exist. but it is an interesting parallel.
heat dissipation is an unfortunate (in this case) law of nature here. (also called the laws of thermodynamics)
:-)
The way transistors work just happens to waste a bit of energy when conducting (and not conducting, too). New technologies, including feature size shrinkage and SOI WILL help the power dissipation issue. at this feature size they _could_ put fewer transistors per square mm and get less power density and still more transistors than today to decrease the heat output. But this won't happen since people want max performance. They will always go for max performance in their heat and power budget (which is governed by air cooling right now).
Now, reducing the power, or Vdd, will also reduce power density, but this requires tighter control over threshold voltage and thus the oxide interface and possibly thinner gate oxide. New technologies will answer these problems too.
This all takes a long time. for now just go buy one of those sun systems which runs at 50W!
what's wrong with you?
don't you know about design cycles and that they HAVE designed stuff that advances the chips of tomorrow? they did this 5 years ago,
stuff like MOCVD, e-beam lithography, etc, etc, etc.
it takes a LONG time to get transistors into products. Look at SOI and SiGe, the first SiGe HBT was fabricated in ~1970. they are only now making it into products. SOI has been in the works for 10 years, and they are still only using partially depleted channels because of clean interface issues.
hmmmm... you could use their high K dielectric for that since they are depositing it only under the gate. so you could put it where you want decoupling caps between M1 and M4 or Mwhatever.
but the poster was asking about high K under the gate which raises their concern on high turn on C. (see my post below)
for the depleted substrate explanation see my post above:
h ol d=0&commentsort=3&mode=thread&pid=2615361#2615436
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=24164&thres
the Si layer above the insulator reduces recombination and leakage which plagues SOI.
they may even be able to ground this thin layer to reduce the "floating substrate" problem in SOI. but then i think punchthrough will be a problem.
as for the gate dielectric this is where we can't use low K as we NEED higher capacitance to modulate the channel. The higher K allows a thinner oxide increasing the control over teh channel and we can thus further invert the channel. especially with gate lengths getting so short.
We want low K dielectrics in the matal layers for the reasons you stated (lower cap.).
this is a big increment for intel and the industry.
it IS just another research curiosity.
that said, the diff here is that the buffer of "depleted" (very low doped?) Si reduces interface states that occur at the insulator/semi boundary (the "bottom" one). so there will be less recombination, and more of the current will go out the contacts rather than leaking along the bottom of the substrate.
i wonder how they will deal with the floating substrate affect like in SOI?
i think intel must have been scrambling for a good SOI competetor for a while now. maybe they'll actually switch to copper/low K as well?
i agree whole heartedly.
but the goal of free software and in this case gnome may not be best served if they concentrate on integration with proprietary software. i can't really think of an example...
But it is still absolutely necesary IMO to allow users ANY freedoms. as the above AC said.
the integration and therefore free marketing of proprietary softs in a free software product should be secondary to its own features and integration with othe rfree software.
-eric
i second that!
RMS has great ideals and i admire his strife.
But i think there are commercial softwares that realistically can't be replaced with free (as in beer) ones in a tight time frame. It is necessary to therefore try as best we can to integrate the free with the necessary ($$ softs). CAD tools for instance. I'd love to run cadence and/or Pro/E on my gnome desktop linux cluster and get stuff done faster than my collegues on ultra 10s!
free love/beer/software forever!
:-)
-eric
AMEN!
but as one user pointed out maybe we need a smarter shell to deal with recursive PATHs.
i hate package managers as much as the next person, but i feel like a smart shell to expand recursive variables would help even though it does take _some_ control away from the power user just as package managers do. (aptget the exception).
the symlink thing doesn't work for a lot of apps because they are too dumb to load libraries from their "home" directory if it's not where the binary is. (ahem, NETSCAPE)
so the symlink thing doesn't complicate your PATH just gives you 2000 $APP_HOME variables.
what i never got, nor investigated, was why the config didn't use an autoconf, et al. TYPE of system. obviously it would have to be different. .config files around. but i still have to check.
but i get really annoyed when each time i config i have to go into every single damn section to make sure shit i don't need is turned off. now of course i know how to move my
i hope CLM2 can/will provide some structure to allow one global file that will provide my basic system structure and will turn off all the crap i don't want (am radio for instance i prolly won't use in the near future).
now THAT is a great idea. MOD this UP!
it IS what he's looking for.
the new IPAQ is a 233 strongARM or something ridiculous right?
just get a keyboard and you are all set.
that is as portable as i need.
all my machines are setup for remote access anyway so i can use them from wherever i am.
do up your code in emacs on the IPAQ,
maybe even run the parser, but do the compiling and linking on your powerboxen later.
cooool