Try thinking of all the millions of kids you DON'T see on TV who go to bed every night and lay there dreading the moment when "mommyy's special friend" or daddy or the babysitter arrives. Try thinking of the hundreds who get killed every year by a parent who you DON'T see on the evening news because it's just some local redneck couple.
One kid in the pageant scene gets killed, you try to blame the pageants? I guess she strung herself up with that electrical cord out of shame.
As an asside, they are planning to ban parents from taking photos during school swimming carnivals soon here in Australia for fear of pedophiles taking photographs.
Thanks for giving us Americans one more reminder that there are indeed other countries even more fucked up than us.
[i]She's not, and wasn't screwed up, just screwed over. Young musically (or otherwise artistically) inclined people are not lawyers. When the record company comes by with the tantalizing offer of becoming a millionaire most of them don't know enough about business or the world in general to negotiate a contract properly.[/i]
Again, that's not the music industry's fault. They offerd a contract, she was too stupid to run it by a lawyer first. This is your future, you don't just sign it away.
[i]Even industry giants have little choice but to shut up and take it. Prince went for many years with no name and referred to only as the artist formerly known as Prince.[/i]
That's because prince made the same stupid mistake poe did. But before prince was prince, who the fuck was he? I still remember that campaign, they spent oodles of money hyping him as the next great thing even when no one knew who the fuck he was. The record industry goiveth, the record industry take away. But it's up to the artist to take, you can't blame the industry for the artist's stupid mistake.
[i]The record companies have a stranglehold on the music industry and only a few people are able to get out from under it.[/i]
Bullshit. Techno is a huge scene and most of those artists only show up on major labels when the industry comes knocking, not the other way around. Those artists make money, get gigs all over the world, and share inspiration freely. "The music industry" doesn't have a stranglehold there or even a foothold because the artists don't need them or want them around.
I haven't bought a label release in years and I'm not starving for new music. It's all a choice. and blaming "the industry" for the artist's stupid mistake strips them of responsibility, accountability, and motivation to tell the next sharkskin suit to hit the goddamned door.
Sounds like a good example of how screwed up poe is (or was) as well. Why the fuck anyone would sing a contract like that is beyond me, but it's not like a record exec put a pen in her hand and Luger in her mouth.
But when it comes to arguments like this you have to scream and kick below the waist to even be heard. Don't try rational thought on the holy crusaders, that's over their heads.
No, I don't think parading *children* (real children, not just legal children) around like that is okay.
And what if they're not in underwear? What if it's a swimsuit? What if it's short and a tee and barettes and nice shoes while they play on the swngest at the park? Where are YOU going to draw the line? Because there are sites selling exactly that, and there are customers. How do you enforce thought crimes in YOUR imaginary world?
So you're offended. Tough shit. You haven't even made an ATTEMPT at objectively proving "harm" to these kids. And no, saying "they'll feel shame because people like me are offended and will cast shame upon them" doesn't buy it - you don't get to stand there with the club and say "but they'll make me club them." You can't have an objective stance until you put down the motherfucking club.
I challenge you to get out of your hovel and experience a tiny bit of the world. The US and UK are the most fucked up, perverted cultures outside Jaffa or Baghdad when it comes to nonsense like this. The only people doing the "shaming" nonsense here is self loathing moralists like yourself, so if ever they get to that "shame" part it's YOUR fucking fault for fostering such nonsense. YOU ARE CREATING THE PROBLEM YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.
If you had even half a brain you'd realize your indignance is completely economic. You are playing patsy to the old school media oligarchy. You are living in the past. If these kids were doing this shit on TV or movies would you have the same problem? I mean, I don't see you blaming the Olsen twins for starting all this nonsense - they became Billionaires on direct to video, direct marketed sales to homes and their films have been, for years, clearly marketed at dads as much as little girls. That's why they're called "family films" - something in it for everyone.
So apparently it's OK just so long as there's a lot of Hollywood money behind it... but heaven forbid some kid from Butt Phuck Iowa enjoy herself being a teen pinup queen - improving her own self esteem and making some cash that benefits the entire family (thus improving her own living conditions) in the process.
If the kid is being abused that's an entirely separate case, and not related to modeling at all. Millions of kids get molested or otherwise abused and there's no one taking pictures of it, how "offended" are you by that? And don't say it's the fault of these models kids are getting molested - or are you one of those illuminated folks who also blames the woman's "coy attitude" or her "sexual attire" for being raped?
Again I'll challenge you to just WATCH SOME FUCKING TV. You don't even have to leave your home to be exposed to other cultures. In some places families are so crowded together kids are even in the room when parents are doing the nasty, it doesn't fuck up their little minds because no one is standing over them going "OMG U R TRAUMATIZED!"
So again: congrats on being part of the problem... and all that.
Kids in real life don't parade around in thongs, lingerie (that fans have bought for them) and other revealing attire for money
You obviously have never watched Telemundo on a saturday night.
Considering the mother of the original star of one of the most popular "child super model" sites (Lil Amber might ring a bell) was a porn star...
Amber's mom "a porn star?" LOL. Got any proof? Clue: proof does not consist of an allegation made by a local two biut reporter with a self rightcheous stick up her butt. I looked for anything about this, found nothing.
And so what if she was? I know a former porn star - she was a penthouse model and now she's a fucking kindergarten teacher. Oooh my god! She sucked a dick and now she's teaching five year olds their colors!
Your allegation is irrelevant.
What I DID find was a website that protects the child's information and a two-bit MSNBC (the same people that brought us exploding pickups and airs a fucking yellow rag soap opera twice a week under the guise of "news magazine") story wherein THEY cast accusations upon this site as "endangering children" and then proceed to show up at the kids house with a fucking news crew.
DUH! Let's lead the world to the house of a child! Let's prove ourselves right when some sick fucker - who never even heard of amber before - turns on the news and sees his next "chosen one!"
Gee, I wonder why the fuck she retired.
Oh yeah... the comments I found on one of those discussion board archives mentions all the great new business Amber was sent by that sensationalistic bullshit, so congrats on your overzealous hypocritical indignance - you helped buy a kid a new car.
If you had any brains at all you'd realize you are simply confusing your right to be offended with an imagined right to censor speech that merely offends you. Frankly, I'm fucking offended by having to share ads for "self warming" K-Y jelly and "erectile dysfunction" pills with a teenage daughter when I sit down to the evening news. So when do I get to ban that? And what about those lying right wing cocksuckers on talk radio - when do I get to shut them up?
Like I said: take your self important self rightcheous perversion and shove it up your pasty white protestant ass. If the kid is "endangered" child services will take care of it. But if it's a nanny state you want, I suggest a move to Singapore and leave the rest of us, who still value what little liberty remains in this fucked up nation, the hell alone.
There are likely thousands of kids visiting this place every year that are being fucked by parents, coaches, uncles, moms, grandparents - and you think invasive crap like this that infringes on the liberties of our entire society is going to prevent that?
Man, the people of the US don't deserve the freedom they're now squandering out of irrational fear and resolute denial. I pity the future children of the US.
[i]I'm saying this is very close to child porn to the point where it's softcore porn in some cases.[/i]
Thanks for illustrating my point on a very personal level.
As I said: there are people who wank to pictures of kids in catalogs. There are people who don't even care about the stuff you're demonizing, they want kids wearing Bratz and Powerpuff Girls playing on swings and climbing on monkey bars. So when do we outlaw ALL pictures of children because some pervs want to wank to them?
It's not a fucking "loophole" you moron. It's called freedom of thought. I realize that's a challenge to folks like you, so think of it like this: you just admitted you found these pics akin to "softcore porn." So when do we call the thought police to come haul you in for re-education?
I'll say it again: fuck off with your thought crimes. There are people who spend their time collecting ogddamned catalog images. People buy Olsen twins videos to wank off to. If that helps them resist the urge to bang a kid, who cares?
Oh yeah... and stay the fuck out of any nation south of the US. Heathen children dancing in the streets waering showgirl costumes! OH MY FUCKING GOD WHAT PERVERTS!
Goddamn fucking "moral crusader." How about you clean out your own head first?
You are obviously an illiterate moron. Iliterate because you did not even read my comment which you responded to elsewhere, and a moron because you jump to sanctimonious conclusions without having absorbed a word of fact.
The girl will have plenty of time for humiliation when she shows up in court to give her testimony.
Her pictures are already all over the internet. They're not all nude or pornographic, I recognized the picture of the fountain instantly because I've seen the picture myself. She's not naked, she's just a pretty little girl in an evening dress standing in front of the fountain. Maybe there are other more sinister things happening at that fountain in other pictures, but the fact is the horses are ALL out of the stable when it comes to "protecting" her by NOT having her pictures plastered all over the internet. Been there, done that, time to catch the bad guy (and ten bucks says it's her non-custodial dad).
Go read the VBI's own reports on this. Depending on who you ask, 15 to 35 percent of college freshmen have reported being molested or abused at some time in their past.
As many as a third.
Most of those happen at the hands of parents or guardians or close relatives (who also may have kids - do the math)
The saddest part of this whole discussion is the truth so rarely gets reported. These aren't just one in a million cases, or even one in a hundred or even one in ten.
There are a LOT of people out there doing this crap. It's not just sick indiviudals, it's a sick society - and until we as a scoiety have the guts to address the problem objectively, it ain't gonna get better.
They show these but not others? I've seen a couple of these, they're even used a SPAM by a couple of "commercial" sites. I don't know if it's john law or the russian mafia, but if you use usenet and you've ever visited any group remotely about "teens" you've probably come across some of these, at least in thumbnails.
There are others that seem to show the inside of a home. Why the hell would they release these and not the ones that might actually be recognized by a neighbor or relative of the girl?
BTW some of us have been screaming for them to do this for years. Nice to see they're finally waking from that "protect the children by hiding them" stupor.
I'm middle age and hate everything (and hated the original version), but the new Battlestar Galactica actually makes me want to shell out dollars for an official t-shirt. It's the best new SF show I've seen in years.
I also have liked this season of Enterprise quite a bit. Too bad it didn't come along two years ago, before the stupid timewarp war.
I love the Andoorians. Shram should have his own series.
What you don't seem to realize is that releasing specs that would allow you to speak directly with the hardware would necessarily reveal trade secrets about how the hardware works.
I already pointed out the single fact that blows this idiocy out of the water: if Nvidia wants to know how ATi's chip works, they have the equipment and staff to reverse engineer the damn thing. They don't need NDAs or permission, they just need microscopes and state analyzers and gate level logic probes. High end shit none in the open source community can afford, and the few who even get near such things do so only on their day jobs.
Jeezus. Learn to think for yourself and stop being a corporate parrot.
they don't provide docs on the wireless functions either. But even having docs on the 810/815 is enough to get reasonably functional drivers working. On the ATi front, the last decent drivers I've seen there were for the Rage128 chips from what... five years ago?
I'm not pissed at the graphics companies. I'm pisssed at the morons who throw their money at them and then say "they're supporting the open source community" when clearly they are doing NO SUCH THING.
And some linux users ARE "angry people who froth at the mouth." So fucking what? So are most of the idiots who run windows. And we don't even want to get into the nuts running Macs...
You jsut blew a buncha money supporting a manufacturer who feeds on lip service.
Intel releases all the info needed to support their shit. And any modern intel (on-board, included, available now) graphics set is going to be at least as powerful as that "Opengr" chipset that might get developed someday.
[i]Open-source support doesn't create any significant increase in income. It's a niche market that really isn't worth being invested in yet. Note that I said YET, not NEVER[/i]
Idiot. Open source support means you release the information THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE PRODUCED to the marketplace so the developers WHO DO THIS SHIT VOLUNTARILY can construct some decent drivers.
It doesn't cost them a fucking thing - they just have to stop guarding this shit like it was some sort of secret sauce. If Nvidia wants to dissect ATi's chips, Nvidia has the tools available to do it. the open source copmmunity DOESN'T necessarily have this capability, however. By refusing to release the INFORMATION needed to properly support their devices in the open source community, these manufacturers are delivering a big FUCK YOU to anyone who cares about said community.
Fuck them both. They're not getting another dime from me, and if you care about open source you shouldn't be buying their shit either.
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Try thinking of all the millions of kids you DON'T see on TV who go to bed every night and lay there dreading the moment when "mommyy's special friend" or daddy or the babysitter arrives. Try thinking of the hundreds who get killed every year by a parent who you DON'T see on the evening news because it's just some local redneck couple.
One kid in the pageant scene gets killed, you try to blame the pageants? I guess she strung herself up with that electrical cord out of shame.
Yeah, and so is BSD.
As an asside, they are planning to ban parents from taking photos during school swimming carnivals soon here in Australia for fear of pedophiles taking photographs.
Thanks for giving us Americans one more reminder that there are indeed other countries even more fucked up than us.
[i]She's not, and wasn't screwed up, just screwed over. Young musically (or otherwise artistically) inclined people are not lawyers. When the record company comes by with the tantalizing offer of becoming a millionaire most of them don't know enough about business or the world in general to negotiate a contract properly.[/i]
Again, that's not the music industry's fault. They offerd a contract, she was too stupid to run it by a lawyer first. This is your future, you don't just sign it away.
[i]Even industry giants have little choice but to shut up and take it. Prince went for many years with no name and referred to only as the artist formerly known as Prince.[/i]
That's because prince made the same stupid mistake poe did. But before prince was prince, who the fuck was he? I still remember that campaign, they spent oodles of money hyping him as the next great thing even when no one knew who the fuck he was. The record industry goiveth, the record industry take away. But it's up to the artist to take, you can't blame the industry for the artist's stupid mistake.
[i]The record companies have a stranglehold on the music industry and only a few people are able to get out from under it.[/i]
Bullshit. Techno is a huge scene and most of those artists only show up on major labels when the industry comes knocking, not the other way around. Those artists make money, get gigs all over the world, and share inspiration freely. "The music industry" doesn't have a stranglehold there or even a foothold because the artists don't need them or want them around.
I haven't bought a label release in years and I'm not starving for new music. It's all a choice. and blaming "the industry" for the artist's stupid mistake strips them of responsibility, accountability, and motivation to tell the next sharkskin suit to hit the goddamned door.
Sounds like a good example of how screwed up poe is (or was) as well. Why the fuck anyone would sing a contract like that is beyond me, but it's not like a record exec put a pen in her hand and Luger in her mouth.
But when it comes to arguments like this you have to scream and kick below the waist to even be heard. Don't try rational thought on the holy crusaders, that's over their heads.
No, I don't think parading *children* (real children, not just legal children) around like that is okay.
And what if they're not in underwear? What if it's a swimsuit? What if it's short and a tee and barettes and nice shoes while they play on the swngest at the park? Where are YOU going to draw the line? Because there are sites selling exactly that, and there are customers. How do you enforce thought crimes in YOUR imaginary world?
So you're offended. Tough shit. You haven't even made an ATTEMPT at objectively proving "harm" to these kids. And no, saying "they'll feel shame because people like me are offended and will cast shame upon them" doesn't buy it - you don't get to stand there with the club and say "but they'll make me club them." You can't have an objective stance until you put down the motherfucking club.
I challenge you to get out of your hovel and experience a tiny bit of the world. The US and UK are the most fucked up, perverted cultures outside Jaffa or Baghdad when it comes to nonsense like this. The only people doing the "shaming" nonsense here is self loathing moralists like yourself, so if ever they get to that "shame" part it's YOUR fucking fault for fostering such nonsense. YOU ARE CREATING THE PROBLEM YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.
If you had even half a brain you'd realize your indignance is completely economic. You are playing patsy to the old school media oligarchy. You are living in the past. If these kids were doing this shit on TV or movies would you have the same problem? I mean, I don't see you blaming the Olsen twins for starting all this nonsense - they became Billionaires on direct to video, direct marketed sales to homes and their films have been, for years, clearly marketed at dads as much as little girls. That's why they're called "family films" - something in it for everyone.
So apparently it's OK just so long as there's a lot of Hollywood money behind it... but heaven forbid some kid from Butt Phuck Iowa enjoy herself being a teen pinup queen - improving her own self esteem and making some cash that benefits the entire family (thus improving her own living conditions) in the process.
If the kid is being abused that's an entirely separate case, and not related to modeling at all. Millions of kids get molested or otherwise abused and there's no one taking pictures of it, how "offended" are you by that? And don't say it's the fault of these models kids are getting molested - or are you one of those illuminated folks who also blames the woman's "coy attitude" or her "sexual attire" for being raped?
Again I'll challenge you to just WATCH SOME FUCKING TV. You don't even have to leave your home to be exposed to other cultures. In some places families are so crowded together kids are even in the room when parents are doing the nasty, it doesn't fuck up their little minds because no one is standing over them going "OMG U R TRAUMATIZED!"
So again: congrats on being part of the problem... and all that.
Kids in real life don't parade around in thongs, lingerie (that fans have bought for them) and other revealing attire for money
You obviously have never watched Telemundo on a saturday night.
Considering the mother of the original star of one of the most popular "child super model" sites (Lil Amber might ring a bell) was a porn star...
Amber's mom "a porn star?" LOL. Got any proof? Clue: proof does not consist of an allegation made by a local two biut reporter with a self rightcheous stick up her butt. I looked for anything about this, found nothing.
And so what if she was? I know a former porn star - she was a penthouse model and now she's a fucking kindergarten teacher. Oooh my god! She sucked a dick and now she's teaching five year olds their colors!
Your allegation is irrelevant.
What I DID find was a website that protects the child's information and a two-bit MSNBC (the same people that brought us exploding pickups and airs a fucking yellow rag soap opera twice a week under the guise of "news magazine") story wherein THEY cast accusations upon this site as "endangering children" and then proceed to show up at the kids house with a fucking news crew.
DUH! Let's lead the world to the house of a child! Let's prove ourselves right when some sick fucker - who never even heard of amber before - turns on the news and sees his next "chosen one!"
Gee, I wonder why the fuck she retired.
Oh yeah... the comments I found on one of those discussion board archives mentions all the great new business Amber was sent by that sensationalistic bullshit, so congrats on your overzealous hypocritical indignance - you helped buy a kid a new car.
If you had any brains at all you'd realize you are simply confusing your right to be offended with an imagined right to censor speech that merely offends you. Frankly, I'm fucking offended by having to share ads for "self warming" K-Y jelly and "erectile dysfunction" pills with a teenage daughter when I sit down to the evening news. So when do I get to ban that? And what about those lying right wing cocksuckers on talk radio - when do I get to shut them up?
Like I said: take your self important self rightcheous perversion and shove it up your pasty white protestant ass. If the kid is "endangered" child services will take care of it. But if it's a nanny state you want, I suggest a move to Singapore and leave the rest of us, who still value what little liberty remains in this fucked up nation, the hell alone.
There are likely thousands of kids visiting this place every year that are being fucked by parents, coaches, uncles, moms, grandparents - and you think invasive crap like this that infringes on the liberties of our entire society is going to prevent that?
Man, the people of the US don't deserve the freedom they're now squandering out of irrational fear and resolute denial. I pity the future children of the US.
[i]I'm saying this is very close to child porn to the point where it's softcore porn in some cases.[/i]
Thanks for illustrating my point on a very personal level.
As I said: there are people who wank to pictures of kids in catalogs. There are people who don't even care about the stuff you're demonizing, they want kids wearing Bratz and Powerpuff Girls playing on swings and climbing on monkey bars. So when do we outlaw ALL pictures of children because some pervs want to wank to them?
It's not a fucking "loophole" you moron. It's called freedom of thought. I realize that's a challenge to folks like you, so think of it like this: you just admitted you found these pics akin to "softcore porn." So when do we call the thought police to come haul you in for re-education?
These thought police crusaders don't understand logic nor fact...
Group names containing keyword "child."
I'll say it again: fuck off with your thought crimes. There are people who spend their time collecting ogddamned catalog images. People buy Olsen twins videos to wank off to. If that helps them resist the urge to bang a kid, who cares?
Oh yeah... and stay the fuck out of any nation south of the US. Heathen children dancing in the streets waering showgirl costumes! OH MY FUCKING GOD WHAT PERVERTS!
Goddamn fucking "moral crusader." How about you clean out your own head first?
Yeah, that must be right because in real life kids don't get camel toe or even wear panties or swimsuits.
Dude, take your thought crimes and shove'em up your lily white self-rightcheous ass.
You are obviously an illiterate moron. Iliterate because you did not even read my comment which you responded to elsewhere, and a moron because you jump to sanctimonious conclusions without having absorbed a word of fact.
The girl will have plenty of time for humiliation when she shows up in court to give her testimony.
Her pictures are already all over the internet. They're not all nude or pornographic, I recognized the picture of the fountain instantly because I've seen the picture myself. She's not naked, she's just a pretty little girl in an evening dress standing in front of the fountain. Maybe there are other more sinister things happening at that fountain in other pictures, but the fact is the horses are ALL out of the stable when it comes to "protecting" her by NOT having her pictures plastered all over the internet. Been there, done that, time to catch the bad guy (and ten bucks says it's her non-custodial dad).
Go read the VBI's own reports on this. Depending on who you ask, 15 to 35 percent of college freshmen have reported being molested or abused at some time in their past.
As many as a third.
Most of those happen at the hands of parents or guardians or close relatives (who also may have kids - do the math)
The saddest part of this whole discussion is the truth so rarely gets reported. These aren't just one in a million cases, or even one in a hundred or even one in ten.
There are a LOT of people out there doing this crap. It's not just sick indiviudals, it's a sick society - and until we as a scoiety have the guts to address the problem objectively, it ain't gonna get better.
They show these but not others? I've seen a couple of these, they're even used a SPAM by a couple of "commercial" sites. I don't know if it's john law or the russian mafia, but if you use usenet and you've ever visited any group remotely about "teens" you've probably come across some of these, at least in thumbnails.
There are others that seem to show the inside of a home. Why the hell would they release these and not the ones that might actually be recognized by a neighbor or relative of the girl?
BTW some of us have been screaming for them to do this for years. Nice to see they're finally waking from that "protect the children by hiding them" stupor.
This has been up for quite some time.
But they don't offer a linux laptop WITH WIRELESS. When they do that, it'll be something worth discussing.
I'm middle age and hate everything (and hated the original version), but the new Battlestar Galactica actually makes me want to shell out dollars for an official t-shirt. It's the best new SF show I've seen in years.
I also have liked this season of Enterprise quite a bit. Too bad it didn't come along two years ago, before the stupid timewarp war.
I love the Andoorians. Shram should have his own series.
It's called magnatune and I've been shopping there for months.
How long until Michael offers us "mp3 lockers" so he doesn't even have to pay his own artists for downloads anymore?
What you don't seem to realize is that releasing specs that would allow you to speak directly with the hardware would necessarily reveal trade secrets about how the hardware works.
I already pointed out the single fact that blows this idiocy out of the water: if Nvidia wants to know how ATi's chip works, they have the equipment and staff to reverse engineer the damn thing. They don't need NDAs or permission, they just need microscopes and state analyzers and gate level logic probes. High end shit none in the open source community can afford, and the few who even get near such things do so only on their day jobs.
Jeezus. Learn to think for yourself and stop being a corporate parrot.
they don't provide docs on the wireless functions either. But even having docs on the 810/815 is enough to get reasonably functional drivers working. On the ATi front, the last decent drivers I've seen there were for the Rage128 chips from what... five years ago?
I'm not pissed at the graphics companies. I'm pisssed at the morons who throw their money at them and then say "they're supporting the open source community" when clearly they are doing NO SUCH THING.
And some linux users ARE "angry people who froth at the mouth." So fucking what? So are most of the idiots who run windows. And we don't even want to get into the nuts running Macs...
You jsut blew a buncha money supporting a manufacturer who feeds on lip service.
Intel releases all the info needed to support their shit. And any modern intel (on-board, included, available now) graphics set is going to be at least as powerful as that "Opengr" chipset that might get developed someday.
Congratulations on being a sucker.
Twice.
[i]Open-source support doesn't create any significant increase in income. It's a niche market that really isn't worth being invested in yet. Note that I said YET, not NEVER[/i]
Idiot. Open source support means you release the information THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE PRODUCED to the marketplace so the developers WHO DO THIS SHIT VOLUNTARILY can construct some decent drivers.
It doesn't cost them a fucking thing - they just have to stop guarding this shit like it was some sort of secret sauce. If Nvidia wants to dissect ATi's chips, Nvidia has the tools available to do it. the open source copmmunity DOESN'T necessarily have this capability, however. By refusing to release the INFORMATION needed to properly support their devices in the open source community, these manufacturers are delivering a big FUCK YOU to anyone who cares about said community.
Fuck them both. They're not getting another dime from me, and if you care about open source you shouldn't be buying their shit either.