Slashdot Mirror
Web-Only Album Wins Grammy
blamanj writes "Jazz artist Maria Schneider won a Grammy last night for her album 'Concert in the Garden.' What makes this unusual, according to CNET, is that she might be the first artist ever to win a Grammy for an album distributed solely on the Web. None of the sales were in record stores, and the album was financed through Artist Share."
This would be more exciting if anyone at all cared about the grammys.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
Does that mean that Grammy is rewarding talented artists too?
It'll be interesting if a pop singer pulls a similar stunt for his/her next album, and we'll have a real comparison, and see how (un)important a publisher is in terms of marketing and sales.
Is publisher still an important factor?
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Was anyone else sooo annoyed at how much crap they spewed about downloading music last night?
Must-not-watch TV!
Wake up call....
Dear RIAA,
PWNED,
Toddy boy
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
See how it works RIAA? people release albums to be LISTENED to, not to be controlled... and when they do they SUCCEED.
I've downloaded most of Maria's album, and am looking for the final pieces. This is how distribution can and SHOULD work
This can't be right. The RIAA told me in my latest session, where I get hooked up to this machine.... with electrodes and stuff.... it shocks me :( ... that only mass-marketed artists are successes, and that the internet gives you herpes.
Come on, when a dead guy nearly sweeps the awards (regardless of the fact that Ray was talented), truly this an industry running out of options.
How will the RIAA remove her from the public eye? Or will they just make her an offer she can't refuse and bring her to the dark side?
As a musician, I hope her win is a precedent that will be emulated over and over.
A great day for new nethods of distributing music.
Don't go complaining to slashdot about YOUR ignorance.
When they realize that they now are losing control of their artists. I have not heard of her before, but this is nice in that web based distro of music won a Grammy and I hope that this is the first of many more for here and other artists.
Panic now, beat the rush!
OhmygawdArtistShareisthenewmp3.com!
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
that Green Day CD really is very good. Admittedly, I've been a green day fan for years, but American Idiot really is a whole new thing for them. I've always really liked the fact that Green Day was willing to try really unique and unusual things.
Yea, most of the rest of the RIAA stuff produced is crap tho.
Guess RIAA won't notice this since she didn't make any cash for it
I am harvesting funny/good quotes. Please help by putting them in your sigs
OTOH, an album that sold over 500,000 copies through Starbucks alone won 8 Grammys...
One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
i didnt think the grammy's were about commercial exposure or success, but rather about the quality of music...(checks online) wait, maroon 5 won a grammy? well, fuck that, i was wrong.
Hey! Don't throw your garbage down here!
*BONK*
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
First goes the RIAA, then goes the MPAA, then goes the GNAA! :-D
Still, a good sign.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
Yeah. The songs are on the interweb. I heard about it on the Google Groups.
I'd give you more info, but Archie seems to be having problems.
she will probably have to sell the award on ebay to compensate her webhost for the server that just went down in flames.
Err, Web != HTML. You can download other files over HTTP too.
Is that the same Maria Schneider of Pathetic Geek Stories fame?
What's really interesting is that the album was made with no involvement of a record company at all.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
...long live the business model.
They will never stop until somebody makes the
Makes you wonder what's happening in the world of real music......
"The Man" may be in more trouble than he thinks.
ok, Dr. Semantic
what TYPE of "audio files"?!
and since when was the "web" just "HTML"?!
Booyah!
Not having red TFA, is this artist's label an RIAA member?
Method of processing duck feet
For someone that is coming from the bottom up, i can say that time is the key. Without millions of dollars to spend on promotion, independant artists have to find a different way to communicate with the masses.
.02
Internet is their greatest tool, so with a bit of time and dedication you can reach millions of people from the comforts of your own home.
I don't think it's about the music industry now, it's about the new uprising of artists taking a step on freely distributed music. The RIAA has their game, but we have ours too.
Instead of changing them, lets just use our own method.
that's my
- pronobozo
------
insert sig here,here, and here
Fact 1: The album was distributed solely on the web.
Fact 2: She won a Grammy for the album.
Fact 3: Ain't no *might* about it.
I'm not good in groups. It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent. - Q
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
...now we're slashdotting Grammy-winners' Web sites.
I guess they had to *ahem*face the music soon, though.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
It'll be the most derivative crap ever created. but, hey, lots of people have become wealthy doing *that*. :)
Progressive jazz metal, maybe. Hmmm. Instrumentals only, because my singing kills cows at fifty paces. I'll sell *that* disc to the farming industry, although PETA might protest it as being more cruel than a pneumatic bolt to the skull.
I think this guy was trying to be funny....if I had a couple mod points, that the way I would have rated it ;)
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
So now the RIAA has to use an ice pick to break out of their confines.... just a minor set back.
For promoting this kind of crackhead lesbo communism. Next thing ya know people will object, object I tell you, to our crawling up their asses for the sheer fucking thrill of complaining how bad it smells. Got to nip this in the bud.
Steps will be taken.
She had to sell the clothes off her back to afford the plane ticket to the Grammy's and is now homeless, hungry, and can't afford to get back in the studio.
Milli Vanilli. No, it's an industry award, and, like most other industry awards, goes to the people who made the industry the most money.
Oh, but it's on their official website. Well then. I'm sure they woulnd't bend the truth to not look like corporate whores.
They will never stop until somebody makes the
Highlights include:
Animating Ray Charles corpse to sell box sets and tribute albums. Look at the dead guy dance! Reminded me of last year's "Cash in on Johnny Cash".
The most god-awful rendition of 'Across the Universe' ever. Hey, if I wanted wooden performances, I'd hang out with a drugstore Indian. And Slash, you don't need to lean that far back when you're playing a quietly phased 12 string. Save the rock pose for something that isn't being butchered right before your eyes.
The internet-inspired 'mash-up'. You can't tell me that someone didn't get that idea from searching Livejournals, and thinking, "This is super-hot! The kids will eat this up! LOLLERS!"
Industry fuck talking about the usual, "downloading music is illegal". Unless you don't own the rights to it. Great crowd shot during that speech. So many 'fuck you' expressions on the audience that had been screwed by industry contracts. Or boredom, apathy and 'get this over with'. I would have been yelling, "Michael Bolton called, and he wants his hair back!". Or something funny.
The endless 'we care' about the tsunami or fill in the blank tragedy of the moment' blathering. How about you kids spend more time making a listenable record, and less time pandering to your bleeding heart market share?
Once again, the Grammys show that the RIAA is not relevant. When are we getting rid of them again?
How many of you are going to support her by buying her album?
If you truly want music to be free (as in speech), put your money where your mouth is for once. The success of such artists depends on the financial backing of people who claim to support independent music.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
in AD 2005, war was beginning.
RIAA chairman: "what happen"
RIAA flunky: "somebody set us up the bomb!"
RIAA flunky: "we get signal!"
RIAA chairman: "what?"
RIAA flunky: "main screen turn on!"
RIAA chairman: "it's you!
schneider: "how are you gentlemen. all your sales are belong to us. you are on the way to obsolescence."
RIAA chairman: "what you say!"
maria schneider: "you have no chance to survive. make your time."
ed
And the winner of best hard rock album goes to.....enimem! *appluad, now here comes the 30 minute looooong speech while hundreds of other awards scrolls along the bottom including best flatulant album of the year award*
IANAL, but it was pretty obvious. In doing Constitutional research this past weekend, I came across the fact that US District courts (the one that RIAA sues in) are all (except one) Article 1 courts. It takes an Article 3 court to be effective throught the United States of America. What is the difference? Article 3 courts enforce the laws of the land throughout the USA. The Article 1 courts enforce laws of the Federal governement (federal territories), so therefore, they only pertain to federal lands. The one exeption that I mentioned is Hawaii who has been given an Article 3 court, though it is operated as an Article 1 court.
Therefore, if you find yourself the victim of a MPAA or RIAA lawsuit, you just should stay out of Federal parks, buildings, Puerto Rico, Guam and American Samoa. Voluntarily appearing before the court is admission of jurisdiction. Furthermore, if you are asked to serve on a federal grand jury, in an article 1 court, make sure you are from a federal territory.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Ironically (and in restrospect obviously) the album is not available on iTMS in their "Grammy Winners" section. :)
My first thought was: "I wonder how many people who are normally fine with pirating music because they're sticking it to a record company..." (as if the artist isn't a piece of that picture) ..."will, out of inertia, just go ahead and run off with an unpaid-for copy of this woman's work, too." And then I realized that most Jazz fans are a little more cerebral, and have a lot more respect for the artists themselves, and typically would either go see a show, or actually pay for a recording. If her work isn't immediately torrented everywhere, that won't really indicate a sea change in this picture. Stay in the musical neighborhood, but see how it goes with, say, a new Norah Jones collection. Or, just prove that all of the "I only do it because of the RIAA" types are hypocrites by seeing if, just to make the point, Metallica or The Blackeyed Peas would do it. Their work would be immediately ripped off, and we'd have some tangible hypocrisy to point to. And this endless conversation would finally come down to: "I, um, really just don't want to pay for music, actually, you got me."
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
What made them succesful? A record company telling you so by filling the airwaves and video networks with it. You fell for it!
Green Day: Retreaded?
Yes.
Can you even fathom that these people are musicians and not just pawns of the RIAA? They work hard (none harder than Ray)
And you know this based on your close personal association with him? Haha. They told you what to like and you liked it.
This is precisely the way in which this "revolution" should happen. This artist has choosen to distribute her music only over the internet. Because of her choice many people are able to enjoy her music that might not otherwise. She also has cut out the RIAA member middlemen. We need more artists that are willing to do this.
Her choice, though, is the key issue here. An artist that does not make a similar choice should not have thier right to make that choice usurped by a bunch of thieves with bittorrent clients.
Spent most of his time doing commercials.
according to RIAA.com, their members are the record companies (and a few artists with their own companies).
and, also according to RIAA.com, they do control licensing and royalty collection, as do other association like BMG and ASCAP (who are not suing everyone on the internet).
please don't mod utter bullshit as "insightful."
BMI, not BMG.
sorry.
The article says she made 10,000 copies and pre-sold 9,000. The album cost her $87,000 to make. She'd need to be selling them for at least $12 a pop to be getting much of anything back. That's assuming the $87k includes her production cost for the 10,000 CDs. In a small run, the packaging costs could easily run $2-3 per CD.
Her site has gone down in flames (no coral cache available), so I can't check how much she was charging. Granted, a jazz artist with her tallent is likely doing a fair amount of live performances, so the album's not her only source of income, but still . . .
Sounds like a good example of how screwed up poe is (or was) as well. Why the fuck anyone would sing a contract like that is beyond me, but it's not like a record exec put a pen in her hand and Luger in her mouth.
.... the might refers to being the first to do it (the poster obviously does not know).
Be careful, falling from such a high horse may break your neck...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Come on, you didn't read the three rules of winning a Grammy!
1. If a Grammy can be awarded post-humously, it will. No disrespect to Ray Charles at all, he is one of my favorites, but did his duet album deserve to win EIGHT Grammies? He won for pretty much every award he was up for. The same thing happened in the past with Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison, and George Harrison. There are much better records by Ray Charles out there that should have deserved more when they came out, but to get all these awards post-humously is pandering to right past wrongs concerning his legacy.
2. Perform at the Grammys, win a Grammy. Come on, how many times have you seen someone win a Grammy RIGHT AFTER THEY PERFORMED? Constantly walking right from backstage to accept the award. What proved this to me was when Gloria Estefan performed an obscure Spanish-language song on the show, then they awarded the Grammy for that same category. In any other circumstance, the award would be given out before the broadcast. You almost wonder if some of the winners know beforehand if they are going to win as incentive to perform on the show: "I'll only show up and perform if I won an award!"
3. The palatable artist usually wins. This year: Maroon 5 for Best New Artist. Which might actually be a good thing considering Best New Artist can be the kiss of death. (Arrested Development and Milli Vanilli anyone?). What triggered this theory? Well, Norah Jones last year. Santana the year before that. But two words come to mind. Jethro. Tull.
Let's face it, the Grammys are all about politics, not quality of product. As pretty much all awards shows are. But the important thing here is that you don't have to pay attention to them. You are your own person, you listen to what you choose to listen to, and no one can tell you otherwise.
She was mentioned in a 3-part piece on NPR's Morning Edition titled "Paying for Music in the Internet Age".
She's interviewed in part 1 of the series which was aired on the 15th of September [clip length: 5' 42"]. Odd, though, that clip one is the middle link among the three.
For immediate release:
The RIAA has today shown further proof that non-conventional Internet Music systems are flawed, and costing the artists money. The recent Grammy success of a relatively unknown artist, Maria Schneider, through an unconventional medium is hurting artists. Sure, her method of direct sales, thereby lowering the overhead of record stores, executives and others in the chain seems innocuous enough.
But it's not.
You see, since her record was not released through the RIAA, we missed out on that chunk of profit. That's money straight from our profit coffers, err, I mean our lower employee payrolls. Now, since she cut our profit on her work off, we have to compensate to meet our annual profit-for-executives margins. So, we had to cut into other artists's payments. Now, Maroon5, Britney Spears, and Metallica will NOT be able to upgrade the toilets in their pet's private jets to a gold plating, versus their current silver plated models.
In addition, the RIAA said that without direct control over what the content of the music was, they couldn't tell people what they wanted to hear. One executive was flabbergasted "How the hell are we going to tell the radio stations we want people to listen to this if we don't control it. It's outrageous! I know people aren't smart enough to think about what they want to hear, so how are we going to tell them about this music. It's just a stupid career-limiting move."
Britney was quoted as saying "All those people buying those records they want are hurting my dog. I hope they can sleep at night, knowing my Poopsie will have to deal with the pain of only a silver toilet seat. They all should die in a tire fire."
They also reported that in addition to not distributing through the RIAA or a major label, she was able to control the content. The RIAA has said that they are considering lobbying Congress to get this "potential for free-radical thought" listed as a terroristic activity. No response yet from Capitol Hill or the White House on these allgations yet.
I'm a jazz sax player, and have been a big fan of Maria Schneider for several years. She has been creating some of the most sophisticated and musically interesting big band music around since her first album in 1995 (Evanescence, which was also nominated for two Grammys). She has 3 or 4 other albums, and most have received Grammy nominations. She has been regularly winning Down Beat reader & critics polls since 1994. Schneider is the heir apparent to her mentor, the late Gil Evans, who's music includes the famous Miles Davis collaborations Birth of the Cool, Porgy & Bess and Sketches of Spain. Her music is very accessible, though she's explores complex meters, harmonies, textures, and timbres. Her pieces tell a story, and often make reference to visual images. I bought her latest album over the web a few months ago. It was something like $9.99 for 128kbps, $14.99 for 320kbps. It's an excellent album, but I still think that Evanesence is her best effort so far. By all means check out her band live if you ever have the opportunity. She always has some of the best jazz musicians in NYC in her group. Evanescence (amazon.com) Concert in the Garden review (allaboutjazz.com) And, she's a babe! -Hot Wasabi over & out
-- Hot Wasabi over & out --
Heard elsewhere:
'Slashdot main server sent to Guantanamo bay for causing terrorism over the internet. The latest was bringing down a Grammy winner's website. Pentagon officials refuse to comment.'
RIAA chairman: "Pay off every 'lobby'"
RIAA flunky: "You know what you doing?"
RIAA chairman: "Move 'lobby'"
RIAA chairman: "For great profit."
Industry fuck talking about the usual, "downloading music is illegal". Unless you don't own the rights to it.
Well, the incumbent music publishers do own the copyright to virtually every possible melody, don't they? Radio and Muzak defeat any sort of "independent creation" defense.
She has been creating some of the most sophisticated and musically interesting big band music around since her first album in 1995 (Evanescence, which was also nominated for two Grammys).
And then some major label band ripped the album title off for its name.
Motorhead won a Grammy too.
:)
So did Bill Clinton.
yeah, hell has frozen over.
So I have this theory that older performers are being recognized now because the voters are comparing those old albums to the new stuff being released now -- and are recognizing just how great those old albums were compared to today's releases.
Back when those old albums were being compared to each other, of course, they didn't seem all that special...
... but I may be off a bit. The price included shipping. I have been a fan of hers for years and I pre-ordered the CD of this album as soon as she announced that it would be available.
A few years back I ordered her third album from Amazon when I could not find it locally. It took about **6** months to ship. It's no wonder she's gone to a web distribution model. I would have paid more than $20 for this new album. And it appears on Amazon that her earlier albums are now out of print.
What a good example of why web distribution makes sense.
Maria Schneider was sued by the RIAA for distributing music in the notoriously illegal "mp3" format.
I just came back form about a half hours wading around in a site that apparently is off on a 56k dialup someplace.
To become eligible to buy the album, something I'd do out of curiosity and because I think the ARTIST should be supported by a method that purports to funnel the monies to the artist as opposed to funneling it thru the accounting dept of some faceless record company where any number of charges are made against the net sales of an album, whatever it takes to make sure they don't have to cut the artists a royalty check being the order of the day.
To continue with the first sentence above, one must open an account, complete with usernames and passwords. Somehow, it didn't like something and looped around to have me fix it, but when I fixed it, then it just loops forever asking me to login, something about an expired security certificate was being reported by my browser. And I was unable to get past that, so I never got a chance to drop my card and actually make the purchase.
FWIW, its $16.95 USD & probably a hefty shipping fee if that site is like most.
But I'm a little put off, not getting the chance to support what, from the sounds of things, must be a worthy artist to support, by buying her output.
If you are copying the mail here Ms. Schneider, grab a ball bat and go see your web designer, and don't leave until it works as intended. We really should be able to purchase it without all this 'membership' crap as long as our card has a sufficient line of credit to support the purchase. And I believe $30K+ should be enough to buy your cd unless you'd like to have a really really exclusive club that doesn't mind playing the starving artist scene for real.
--
Cheers, Gene
*sigh.* What's wrong with you people? The law doesn't exist in a vacuum, you know. Your interpretation of the Constitution is at odds with 1) years of Constitutional scholarship, 2) years of court rulings, 3) common sense. Get a life.
Read my comments on the great-grandparent.
Hang on a sec while I go download it off BT, worry free!
disappeared is NOT a verb
sheesh !
All your bass are belong to us
RP
a few years ago, there was a big move toward "cyber celebrities" in korea. one of them was "adam", a singer who existed only in cyberspace. totally 3D rendered, and actualy did activities as a "celebrity". he modeled, sang, and was featured in commercials and the like. all his songs were sold online. the biggest industry secret was, of course, who the real person behind the voice was... a popular k-drama also featured a Internet-only singer by the name "Zero" who was played by one of the actors in the drama... i believe the actual singer behind the songs was top secret too... i'm not too sure what happened to that whole cyber-celebrity initiative, but, i wouldn't be too surprised if korea and maybe even europe embraces a cyber-celebrity... it would be fun to watch the RIAA go into conniptions.
What about Swollen Members? Or all of the body of work of The Guess Who? Or hell, Avril Lavign for that matter. I know she pushes the term "Canadian Music" from both sides, but still. The chick can sing fairly well, but she really kicks box.
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
the web was just HTML in 1995.
-SP
my singing kills cows at fifty paces
That's nothing. Scott Stapp has been known to take out an entire dairy farm from 2 miles
Read up on Argentina's dirty war. "disappear" was used as a verb to mean kidnapping and killing of political opponents.
Parent is a known troll. Mod him down!
Sorry dude, you were right up until the point where you said that it was a fact that they are all really good artists. That is your OPINION, even in regards to Ray Charles. I don't like Green Day or Maroon 5, but the FACT that they sell a lot of records or win a Grammy doesn't automatically mean that they are good. I think Ray Charles is awesome, but if someone doesn't like his music that is their opinion. I think that there is nothing that proves someone is good, you can only at best state that "most people think that artist X is good".
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
that's like saying "Books are Made of English."
on par with the discussion of virtual celebrities; this was a character in a cartoon series who actually had a couple albums produced - unlike cartoon caricatures of real music stars. Let's not forget William Gibson's Idoru, either.
I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.
...I think you meant "carries a lot of mass in the music industry".
Liberty uber alles.
I never said that anyone shouldn't enjoy Green Day. If someone wants to listen to it, that's fine, but don't have any grand delusions about how amazingly talented or innovative they are.
Its like junk food or prime time TV reality shows. It serves a purpose to keep people entertained for a short period of time in between advertising. Now, to respond to some other criticism:
1. Yes, I have listened to American Idiot. Its garbage.
2. mandolins in punk music? there's 2 things wrong with this: a) many REAL punk bands (i.e. pre-1984) used odd instrumentation. The Misfits actually used organs piped through distortion boxes instead of guitars on a few of their earlier tracks from about '79. Steel Pole Bath Tub made heavy use of tape loops and weird effects and time signatures in the late 80s. The list could go on... b) Green Day isn't punk. Punk is not a type of music. Punk WAS a social movement, one that died a loooooooong time ago. Green Day is punk-rock-style music in much the same way that Lean Cuisine serves up "italian style entrees." Most of Green Day's catalogue can be traced directly back to the Descendants anyway.
3. I do like Mogwai and Death Cab for Cutie, haven't heard of the other two, but I'll check 'em out. As far as bands that started in the last 5 years, I honestly haven't been impressed w/ much. Honestly I've been trying to flesh out my jazz collection recently, adding some more Sun Ra and Thelonius Monk and picking up some more Stanely Jordan. Most of the music I've been buying recently are used LPs - they're cheap, they sound great, and I honestly don't think it matters WHEN music is from in the slightest. Any music is new music if you haven't heard it before.
4. Billie Joe Armstrong is a self-important jackass. Mike Dirnt and Tre Cool can play OK, but they play ONE STYLE OK. If you want to hear a rhythm section that absolutely SHREDS, check out Dying Fetus. Neither of the guys from Green Day could play that stuff. If you want something with a little more diversity, try the rhythm section from Tool. I dare you to put Tre Cool in the same room as Danny Carey or Tim Alexander or Mike "Puffy" Bordin and see who wins. For bass players, I'd recommend listening to Trevor Dunn, he actually has a Ph.D. in playing bass. Mark Sandman is another. Or Bill Gould.
5. As far as Metallica goes, you listen to their recent records (i.e. anything from the Black Album forward) in comparison to their early material and then tell me that they are playing to the best of their ability. They aren't, and you know it. They intentionally watered down their music to make it more accessible. THAT is why I personally hate Metallica. Simply because they are selling themselves short and doing it for the cash and aren't even flexing their musical muscles to the best of their ability.
6. YES, I DO SUCK TO LISTEN TO MUSIC WITH. Because most people listen to music for the same reason they watch TV, mindless distraction. I tend to take my music a little more seriously because I value my time on this planet and would rather have my horizons broadened than listen to the recycled crap that record labels are pushing this week.
7. Last, but certainly not least, Green Day has been together for about 13+ years. There's no excuse for them to still suck so dreadfully anymore. They've had PLENTY of time to get better and they haven't. They stagnated and rehashed the same things to keep making money off kids who buy their music at Wal-Mart.
So, in short - like who want, listen to who you want, but don't delude yourself about their musicianship unless you know what the hell you're talking about.
I wish I hadn't posted to this thread so I could mod this one down.
I agree with everything you said except for the whole Green Day thing. Why the hell do people still like these talentless losers? See my posts elsewhere in this thread for my feelings on Green Day. Basically it amounts to the fact that after 13+ years they should be a damn sight better than they are, and they haven't done a single thing in their lives that was innovative or original.
I wonder how many Green Day fans have listened to the Descendants... because that's where most of GD's material is ripped off from.