i would love to see people like yahoo POP3 implement SSL, but i suspect with a large (non-paying) userbase, the processor time required by the extra SSL encryption overhead would probably cripple their servers during peak times...
Re:Gnumeric is ok, but not THAT hot
on
Gnumeric Turns 5
·
· Score: 1
no... bash is not your login shell when you login to X. you want your WM to see the PATH and other envars; but what you suggest only lets the bash shell see it. unless you make your.xsession a login shell of course, which involves some jiggery-pokery;-)
Re:Gnumeric is ok, but not THAT hot
on
Gnumeric Turns 5
·
· Score: 4, Informative
I had to launch it from shell since you need an environment variable set in order to write Excel files
.xsession my friend, this is where this kinda stuff is supposed to go...
oh dear oh dear, someone ALWAYS says it.. but gnuplot is not, err, GNUplot. if you know what i mean. it was started way in the early eighties and the name GNU is meerly a coincidence. the license is "open source", but it is by no means a license which allows the use of the code elsewhere in the world.
also, gnuplot is VERY hard to get it to look good. its the best, but it is really the graphing equivalent of LaTeX. you will never get that quality form a WYSIWYG graph program. havign said that, i so really think grace is a beautiful 2D plotting program (2D has gotta be emphasised, gnuplot beta just kills everything in 3D).
i remember having a discussion on the gnumeic mailing list about this very point, and they said that guppi gives a mass of power to graphing, which they have never even tapped in to. beyond the basics.
thats besides all the technical difficulty of getting 2 COMPLETELY different applications to talk with each other...
i think they used redhat 7.x as it is the last in the redhat range supporting the ppc chipset. isos are not available for 8 or 9; anyone know any different?
Their behavior will only lead to troubles in court.
the DRM-breaking-gizmo stuff is protected by the DMCA, which is only viable in american courts. this guy (at least) is german, and they can't touch him. its not piracy, so they they can't even get him in that.
From one mathematician to another-- learn some fucking history
yes, but you must admit that with mathematicians the backstabbing is not so big a thing as it may be with artists. sure, ive heard backstabbing stories, but they are few and far between; in art, its pretty much commonplace. i agree.. we are but mortals, we get angry, we lose our rag. but what i am saying is that it is not a sound part of maths-culture to be backstabbing. those that do are shunned.
the maths lives, but mathematicians die. this is the complete opposite to what happens in art.
oh, but you are right smallpaul, grandparent really did pick a shitty analogy;-)
(sorry for sounding rude then, me is a bit bitter against artists, and since you still call the stuff in galeries "modern art", im guessing you've never came across a real artist... you dont want to!)
Well, math is important, but some engineers/chemists/biologists aren't exactly mathematically illiterate you know...
believe me, pure math is a whole different ball game to the kind of maths the applied world uses. i do mathematical physics, and even our way of lookign at, say, group theory and topology is COMPLETELY different to the way the purists talk about it. ive seen applied group theory and even IT is totally different to the way we look at it. there are many MANY levels of translators, and i still believe may time-lag guesses are pretty accurate. you are a pharmacist, i knew pharmacists at undergrad and postgrad level who did what they called "quantum mechanics", which was (what i hear) cutting edge stuff in their field [i.e. last 20 years], but to me as a physicist, it looked REALLY dated.
thats bollocks, artists are a million times more arrogant about their work than mathematicians. mathematicians are just dying for people to want to look at what they do... i'd give an arm and a leg to be able to properly explain to people what it is that i do, but i cant without them first understanding basic differential geometry and group theory. its like expecting an american person to understand a japanese poem without ever learning japanese. its a different language and character set.
artists are the most backstabbing bastards on the planet when it comes to enjoying each others work, and if you dont know who is "so cool" to be into this week, they will reject your conversation at a blink of an eye. try talking to a real artist about di vinci or the turner prize (or basically anyone/thing who we as the public are subjected to), and get nothing but "you are sooo not cool" looks form them. then try talking to a mathematician about euclid and try to pry yourself out of the conversation! artists disassociate themselves from society by choice, mathematicians are rejected and want back.
btw, check out arxiv.org; every math/physics release in the last 10 years has been put there free for anyone to look at; last gallery i went to, i had to pay £5 at the door.
If mathematicans aren't really interested in helping understand the world, why should society fund them?
i am a PhD student in maths... and obviously i will disagree with you. but i have a reason... we may not WANT to change/understand the world; but it happens!!!
surprise surprise, but the maths we create is used by physicists (about a 50->100 year time lag), which in turn is applied and picked up by engineers/chemists/biologists (another 10->50 year lag) which ends up being some new device or revolution for society to play with. you kill off maths, you kill off science as a whole.
perfect examples involve ANY piece of electrical equipment, communications, medical care and transport.
parent is a troll and is very VERY short sighted (see his home page;-)).
step 2 is (possibly) redundant. you can execute any shell script without making it u+x by invoking it as a paramater to the shell it is written for, e.g.
sh nastything.sh
you only need the x bit set if you want the kernel to look at the first line to see which shell to call (in this case/bin/sh).
you do however make a valid point, hopefully gnu mailers like mozzy, sylpheed, kmail and evolution (anyone ever actually used that?) dont ever EVER want to ask a user to run a script file. my mailer (sylpheed-claws) can do several things automatically, like display images and check GPG signatures; i can run commands with a file piped to them, but thats all manual.
Greetings, You have just received the "IRISH VIRUS". As we don't have any programming experience, this Virus works on the honour system. Please delete all the files on your hard drive manually and forward this Virus to everyone on your mailing list. Thank you for your cooperation.
:-D im no.NET or java expert, i use c and c++ exclusively (and dont see that changing to higher level any time soon... lower level if anything).
the link you gave really backs up my point... everyone is saying C# is java and C++ done better. i dont have ANY intentions of learning C#, but it would appear a lot of (especially commercial) people are. java will still be around for a long time... but what everyone seems to be looking for is a better programming environment, a COMPLETELY new environment; learning from all OO implementations and fixing the broken bits. this can only be achieved by a new start, not a patching of an older one, or by making an alternative compiler/runtime download (think blackdown and IBM).
i think it is good that redhat want to up the support into GNU java projects, but i still think this will have little impact on the real executive world of programming, where OSS is still a scary prospect. Java does have one very good thing going for it at the moment however which i think is much more likely at keeping itself as top-dog: Swing, the GUI replacement for the heavily bloated AWT.
If this is truly an OSS project, Red Hat likely won't have a huge influence on where it gets ported to.
of course! but redhat are only going to finance coders to work on GNU/Linux and thats the point of the article. i assume they will pick up a project such as GCJ or kaffe. once that starts rolling, im sure porters will do their thing. but redhat are not going to finance a *BSD port is my point.
one thing is for sure though... we will see a lot more GNU java programs!
that description has helped me greatly... please write something like this on gcc.gnu.org/java!!!:-D it will sort out a LOT of notions people like me have about GCJ.
ok, now you have me confused again. i realised gcj was a compiler, and you just made me think it was a runtime environment again (with rubbish collection, jit compiling, virtual machine and all that). now you're saying it is still just a compiler with some runtime (c/c++ philosophy-style libraries) classpaths.
here is where i am confused... i am thinking of libgcj in direct analogy to libstdc++, not like a virtual machine. are you saying the reason for my confusion is because it is BOTH these things... a native compiler/dynamically linkable lib AND potentially a virtual machine for running byte-compiled (portable) binaries, with a lack of authors being the only holdup to the jit.
i assume redhat are looking to improve the virtual machine end of things?
personally i think a c/c++ philosophy to java is the best way to go (i only do c and c++) becuase any java apps i have take forever to get started, but i have some java coder friends who disagree and actually LIKE the jre. i hate it, and if i had the choice, i'd machine code all my java apps to run without it!
if you guys get the GUI side of things working with gtk2, then it'll probably be just as slow;-) but at least the beautiful text rendering and widgets will justify it:-D
after looking here i am not going to argue with you. but why then does the gcj webpage on gcc.gnu.org not mention the (project) GCJ at all, but just the compiler gcj?
i got modded "flamebait" but there is no mention of a runtime environment there; just links to the support libraries which makes it sound like GCJ is compiling source code to machine code, as if it were g++ modified for java syntax and linked to a java standard library, similar to the c/c++ philosophy. not like what i think of when i think of java.
the FAQ (when read with this idea in mind) does nothing to show otherwise. still, i am glad you have clarified this.
but redhat are planning on making a gnu (sic) implementation of java under a more favourable license, not rewrite the (shakey) standards or pick up on SUN's codebase. for the first few years at least, they will be playing catch-up. so although mozilla feeds back into netscape, they are still really the same codebase so this is possible. i cant see SUN GPL'ing their java 1.4 source. so... SUN is not going to get any fantastic patches to add back to their code. sure, in a few years maybe the OSS community may be in a position to start implementing new stuff which SUN may pick up on, or they might not. you are aware of all this however since you mentioned it in your post; however i cant see the 2 codebases being compatible AT ALL. for a start, the redhat guys would not be allowed to look at the SUN code for fear of taking any of it and running into license problems (think openmotif/lesstif).
don't get me wrong... i think this is great news, i think a (hopefully GPL/LGPL) jre/sdk would be fantastic news and i also think that the OSS folk could make a faster implementation than SUN did, but i really don't see how this challenges.NET.
Java and.NET are fighting it out at a conceptual level, not at a "my runtime kit is faster than yours" level. "extra features" which the OSS community might add are miniscule compared to that. and lets face it, they will be geared more toward *NIX use than anything else.
plus we are forgetting this is redhat taking the helm, not like the mozilla project at all... expect GNU/Linux support to be fantastic, don't expect even *BSD support to exist;never mind all the other platforms out there.
Combining Java and OSS with Red Hat and Sun support, in my mind, is enough to kill.NET
please explain your mind... how exactly is this a major player to.NET?? the only community getting any great benefit from an OSS java is the OSS community... surprise surprise.
java is already 'free' as in beer (to the end user), which is all a software house need care about when they want people to buy their code.
Slashdot Mirror
aye, thats the one. cheers sketerpot ;-)
mine just mustn't have been yanked. im using plain 'ol POP3
i dont pay, and i have POP3 access. i've had my account for a while though. im talking about POP3 only.
i would love to see people like yahoo POP3 implement SSL, but i suspect with a large (non-paying) userbase, the processor time required by the extra SSL encryption overhead would probably cripple their servers during peak times...
no... bash is not your login shell when you login to X. you want your WM to see the PATH and other envars; but what you suggest only lets the bash shell see it. unless you make your .xsession a login shell of course, which involves some jiggery-pokery ;-)
.xsession my friend, this is where this kinda stuff is supposed to go...
also, gnuplot is VERY hard to get it to look good. its the best, but it is really the graphing equivalent of LaTeX. you will never get that quality form a WYSIWYG graph program. havign said that, i so really think grace is a beautiful 2D plotting program (2D has gotta be emphasised, gnuplot beta just kills everything in 3D).
i remember having a discussion on the gnumeic mailing list about this very point, and they said that guppi gives a mass of power to graphing, which they have never even tapped in to. beyond the basics.
thats besides all the technical difficulty of getting 2 COMPLETELY different applications to talk with each other...
i think they used redhat 7.x as it is the last in the redhat range supporting the ppc chipset. isos are not available for 8 or 9; anyone know any different?
the DRM-breaking-gizmo stuff is protected by the DMCA, which is only viable in american courts. this guy (at least) is german, and they can't touch him. its not piracy, so they they can't even get him in that.
mozilla works with the selection as well. (not for input windows though... then X takes over and pastes the current clipboard contents.)
yes, but you must admit that with mathematicians the backstabbing is not so big a thing as it may be with artists. sure, ive heard backstabbing stories, but they are few and far between; in art, its pretty much commonplace. i agree.. we are but mortals, we get angry, we lose our rag. but what i am saying is that it is not a sound part of maths-culture to be backstabbing. those that do are shunned.
the maths lives, but mathematicians die. this is the complete opposite to what happens in art.
re knots and braids... try explaining "rings" ;-)
(sorry for sounding rude then, me is a bit bitter against artists, and since you still call the stuff in galeries "modern art", im guessing you've never came across a real artist... you dont want to!)
believe me, pure math is a whole different ball game to the kind of maths the applied world uses. i do mathematical physics, and even our way of lookign at, say, group theory and topology is COMPLETELY different to the way the purists talk about it. ive seen applied group theory and even IT is totally different to the way we look at it. there are many MANY levels of translators, and i still believe may time-lag guesses are pretty accurate. you are a pharmacist, i knew pharmacists at undergrad and postgrad level who did what they called "quantum mechanics", which was (what i hear) cutting edge stuff in their field [i.e. last 20 years], but to me as a physicist, it looked REALLY dated.
-10.25 right, -4.0 left
its slashdot, aren't we all ;-)
artists are the most backstabbing bastards on the planet when it comes to enjoying each others work, and if you dont know who is "so cool" to be into this week, they will reject your conversation at a blink of an eye. try talking to a real artist about di vinci or the turner prize (or basically anyone/thing who we as the public are subjected to), and get nothing but "you are sooo not cool" looks form them. then try talking to a mathematician about euclid and try to pry yourself out of the conversation! artists disassociate themselves from society by choice, mathematicians are rejected and want back.
btw, check out arxiv.org; every math/physics release in the last 10 years has been put there free for anyone to look at; last gallery i went to, i had to pay £5 at the door.
i am a PhD student in maths... and obviously i will disagree with you. but i have a reason... we may not WANT to change/understand the world; but it happens!!!
surprise surprise, but the maths we create is used by physicists (about a 50->100 year time lag), which in turn is applied and picked up by engineers/chemists/biologists (another 10->50 year lag) which ends up being some new device or revolution for society to play with. you kill off maths, you kill off science as a whole.
perfect examples involve ANY piece of electrical equipment, communications, medical care and transport.
parent is a troll and is very VERY short sighted (see his home page ;-)).
you only need the x bit set if you want the kernel to look at the first line to see which shell to call (in this case /bin/sh).
you do however make a valid point, hopefully gnu mailers like mozzy, sylpheed, kmail and evolution (anyone ever actually used that?) dont ever EVER want to ask a user to run a script file. my mailer (sylpheed-claws) can do several things automatically, like display images and check GPG signatures; i can run commands with a file piped to them, but thats all manual.
Greetings, You have just received the "IRISH VIRUS". As we don't have any programming experience, this Virus works on the honour system. Please delete all the files on your hard drive manually and forward this Virus to everyone on your mailing list. Thank you for your cooperation.
he IS jesus!!
the link you gave really backs up my point... everyone is saying C# is java and C++ done better. i dont have ANY intentions of learning C#, but it would appear a lot of (especially commercial) people are. java will still be around for a long time... but what everyone seems to be looking for is a better programming environment, a COMPLETELY new environment; learning from all OO implementations and fixing the broken bits. this can only be achieved by a new start, not a patching of an older one, or by making an alternative compiler/runtime download (think blackdown and IBM).
i think it is good that redhat want to up the support into GNU java projects, but i still think this will have little impact on the real executive world of programming, where OSS is still a scary prospect. Java does have one very good thing going for it at the moment however which i think is much more likely at keeping itself as top-dog: Swing, the GUI replacement for the heavily bloated AWT.
If this is truly an OSS project, Red Hat likely won't have a huge influence on where it gets ported to.
of course! but redhat are only going to finance coders to work on GNU/Linux and thats the point of the article. i assume they will pick up a project such as GCJ or kaffe. once that starts rolling, im sure porters will do their thing. but redhat are not going to finance a *BSD port is my point.
one thing is for sure though... we will see a lot more GNU java programs!
that description has helped me greatly... please write something like this on gcc.gnu.org/java!!! :-D it will sort out a LOT of notions people like me have about GCJ.
here is where i am confused... i am thinking of libgcj in direct analogy to libstdc++, not like a virtual machine. are you saying the reason for my confusion is because it is BOTH these things... a native compiler/dynamically linkable lib AND potentially a virtual machine for running byte-compiled (portable) binaries, with a lack of authors being the only holdup to the jit.
i assume redhat are looking to improve the virtual machine end of things?
personally i think a c/c++ philosophy to java is the best way to go (i only do c and c++) becuase any java apps i have take forever to get started, but i have some java coder friends who disagree and actually LIKE the jre. i hate it, and if i had the choice, i'd machine code all my java apps to run without it!
if you guys get the GUI side of things working with gtk2, then it'll probably be just as slow ;-) but at least the beautiful text rendering and widgets will justify it :-D
i got modded "flamebait" but there is no mention of a runtime environment there; just links to the support libraries which makes it sound like GCJ is compiling source code to machine code, as if it were g++ modified for java syntax and linked to a java standard library, similar to the c/c++ philosophy. not like what i think of when i think of java.
the FAQ (when read with this idea in mind) does nothing to show otherwise. still, i am glad you have clarified this.
don't get me wrong... i think this is great news, i think a (hopefully GPL/LGPL) jre/sdk would be fantastic news and i also think that the OSS folk could make a faster implementation than SUN did, but i really don't see how this challenges .NET.
Java and .NET are fighting it out at a conceptual level, not at a "my runtime kit is faster than yours" level. "extra features" which the OSS community might add are miniscule compared to that. and lets face it, they will be geared more toward *NIX use than anything else.
plus we are forgetting this is redhat taking the helm, not like the mozilla project at all... expect GNU/Linux support to be fantastic, don't expect even *BSD support to exist ;never mind all the other platforms out there.
please explain your mind... how exactly is this a major player to .NET?? the only community getting any great benefit from an OSS java is the OSS community... surprise surprise.
java is already 'free' as in beer (to the end user), which is all a software house need care about when they want people to buy their code.