when dragging a file somewhere, is it copied, moved, or is a shortcut created?
AFAICT, dragging an EXE makes a shortcut. Dragging a regular file moves it. Dragging something from a CD copies it.
need to go to your device manager? where exactly you find it will vary depending on your version of windows. again, inconsistant.
How do you get to the device manager in Linux? I'm not talkine about/dev. You're trying to AVOID confusion, and nothing is more confusing to an average user than the Linux device setup. Hell, it confuses me half the time.
the windows interface is complex and confusing. there are way too many options and way too many ways to accomplish the same thing.
Linux has the same problem, only worse. I can set up my system from the KDE panel, the Mandrake panel, or the Gnome panel. I could also use linuxconf if I was a masochist. There SHOULD BE many different ways of doing things, and I haven't ever found myself thinking "WHICH ONE of the setup utilities do I use?" in Windows.
furthermore, the file system on a computer is _not_ the web. it doesn't work like the web. therefore, it should not have the same interface.
Agreed, for the most part. I hate the way that MS is trying to integrate web crap into the desktop. Every time I see Active Desktops enabled on someone's computer I kick their ass about it.
we should be careful to deliberately make things look a little different there too. again, to _help_ the user see that it _is_ different.
If you put someone behind a keyboard with a computer running XP and a computer running a look-alike, they'll tell the difference immediately. But they have a good idea of where to look when they need something. Then sit them down behind Gnome and watch them squirm.;)
No, they have to lie because stupid fucking web developers seem to think that just because MS invented a tag, they must use it. That because Flash exists, it MUST be great for navigation panels. It has nothing to do with the OS and everything to do with fucktarded web developers.
Umm... no. Be a cornerstone of the hacker community for damn near 30 years, write the best editor on the planet (emacs, IMO), start a foundation to develop and distribute software freely, and just in general make a nuisance out of yourself, then we'll talk.
Re:Free Software, not Open Source
on
RMS Turns 50
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· Score: 1
Open Source is a generic term that encompasses Free Software, whether RMS likes it or not. Free Software is a generic (although slightly confusing) term that encompasses Open Source, whether ESR likes it or not. Either way you look at it, it's an extraordinarily counterproductive thing to spend so much time bitching about which is which and what does everything better.
Exactly what is so horrible about the Windows GUI? The title bars don't take up any more space than they do in Gnome, KDE, Window Maker, or ANYTHING ELSE for that matter. The interface is one of the few things about Windows you can't complain about. I have never been confused about anything in Windows pertaining to the UI. It might not be what you are used to, but that's entirely the point. There are a lot of people out there that HAVE NOT USED LINUX BEFORE AND MIGHT DO SO IF IT LOOKED AND FELT MORE FAMILIAR. This project is not aimed at the people that already use Linux. It is not aimed at you, me, or for that matter, ANYONE that regularly reads and posts on Slashdot. It is a stepping stone. It is to be treated as such.
But when you're still learning CLI usage and you don't know all the commands by heart, you're screwed. You have to remember that most computer users have probably never used a command line before and the thought of opening up a DOS box to do what Explorer can is stupid (to them).
My perspective, which is of coursed biased by being a TOS/Mac/OS2/X/Win/X-user, in that order, over the last 15 years,
Exactly. You've used many different setups over a 15 year period. In the 10+ years I've been working with computers, it's been Windows only. There are millions of people in a similar situation. But they're scared to death of losing productivity when switching to a new OS, and I can't blame them. If we can have a GUI that helps ease the transition, then it's a good idea to make one.
They're all installed because they were all included on the Mandrake CD's, except for Fluxbox. When I first installed it, I didn't know anything about any of them, so I installed them all. After messing with each one for a while I found that Window Maker and Blackbox work best for me.
What does this WM do that I couldn't do in the past?
If you've used Linux for a long time, not a damn thing. If you haven't used it and are interested in doing so, but don't want to learn a whole new way of doing things, it does a lot. Of course, the instant reply is "But it's Linux, not Windows. Everything IS different." To which I say "That's not the point. The point is, not everyone was born with a UNIX manual rammed up their bum. Some people didn't start using computers until AFTER MS dominated the market and haven't used a computer with anything but Windows. For them it's a matter of what they can do NOW, not what they CAN DO ONCE THEY LEARN HOW." Which gets the reply "Yeah.... but... Linux rules all." Then you smack me in the head with a stuffed Tux and run off.
What is the problem to which this is the solution?
User fear. Some people that want to try Linux are afraid to because jumping from Windows to even KDE is a huge step (and one I did just recently, so I know how it is). And from Windows to Window Maker? Forget it. It's an intermediate level and nothing more. IMO, at least.
KDE, Gnome, Window Maker, Blackbox, Fluxbox, FVWM, IceWM, TWM, KWM, MWM, Enlightenment... and that's only the ones I have installed. How many more do you want?
Maybe they'll manage to build a decent file manager. As much as I hate to say it, for MY USE, Windows file manager destroys all the Linux equivalents (Konqueror, Nautilus, etc.). I'm not saying that either one of those is bad, but both have problems that just put me off. For most of my file managing needs I use Midnight Commander, which sucks in an Xterm.
I actually can see the use of copying XP's interface. Unlike most here, I'm a REAL WORLD computer user (that was a joke. Laugh.). The people that I know freak out if one of their icons goes missing. There's no way they'd ever learn how to use Gnome. But if you take a distro like Knoppix and throw a familiar face on it, they might change their minds.
So because you don't have to use braces, you're not going to go near it? It's not fucking COBOL, dude. The images Python invokes are nothing like it actually WORKS. Pull your head out of your ass and try it some day, you might like it.
Are you surprised? Vidcard technology is moving faster than game technology at this point. In the 18-24 months it takes a game to be developed you're looking at it go from being bleeding edge, to it being behind everyone else.
Eventually someone is going to be burned by this cycle, and it most likely will be the "$400 every six month" video card manufacturers.
Exactly. Quality control is boring work. I loved my job, but it just was so damned boring sometimes. There's only so much of one thing you can look at before it gets annoying.
The Saturn, Dreamcast, and Playstation all had direct arcade versions. The arcade versions were slightly modified (mostly with more memory) but still the same hardware.
I worked for eight months as a QC in spector for a guitar company. Much like them, I thought my job was going to be to sit around and play all day. Of course, it wasn't. Guitars don't QC themselves and when you're staring at a stack of 100 that have to be out today and it's already noon, you start to realise that no matter what you're working on, you're still WORKING. It's still a job.
Let's put it this way. How many of you here love working on computers? Now, how many of you like your job? Now how many would want to spend 100 hours at your job in a single week? Yeah, I thought not. Work is work, no matter how glamorous it sounds.
Slashdot Mirror
when dragging a file somewhere, is it copied, moved, or is a shortcut created?
/dev. You're trying to AVOID confusion, and nothing is more confusing to an average user than the Linux device setup. Hell, it confuses me half the time.
;)
AFAICT, dragging an EXE makes a shortcut. Dragging a regular file moves it. Dragging something from a CD copies it.
need to go to your device manager? where exactly you find it will vary depending on your version of windows. again, inconsistant.
How do you get to the device manager in Linux? I'm not talkine about
the windows interface is complex and confusing. there are way too many options and way too many ways to accomplish the same thing.
Linux has the same problem, only worse. I can set up my system from the KDE panel, the Mandrake panel, or the Gnome panel. I could also use linuxconf if I was a masochist. There SHOULD BE many different ways of doing things, and I haven't ever found myself thinking "WHICH ONE of the setup utilities do I use?" in Windows.
furthermore, the file system on a computer is _not_ the web. it doesn't work like the web. therefore, it should not have the same interface.
Agreed, for the most part. I hate the way that MS is trying to integrate web crap into the desktop. Every time I see Active Desktops enabled on someone's computer I kick their ass about it.
we should be careful to deliberately make things look a little different there too. again, to _help_ the user see that it _is_ different.
If you put someone behind a keyboard with a computer running XP and a computer running a look-alike, they'll tell the difference immediately. But they have a good idea of where to look when they need something. Then sit them down behind Gnome and watch them squirm.
No, they have to lie because stupid fucking web developers seem to think that just because MS invented a tag, they must use it. That because Flash exists, it MUST be great for navigation panels. It has nothing to do with the OS and everything to do with fucktarded web developers.
Is GCC and Emacs enough? ;)
Umm... no. Be a cornerstone of the hacker community for damn near 30 years, write the best editor on the planet (emacs, IMO), start a foundation to develop and distribute software freely, and just in general make a nuisance out of yourself, then we'll talk.
Open Source is a generic term that encompasses Free Software, whether RMS likes it or not. Free Software is a generic (although slightly confusing) term that encompasses Open Source, whether ESR likes it or not. Either way you look at it, it's an extraordinarily counterproductive thing to spend so much time bitching about which is which and what does everything better.
Bah. It's all a copy of the Amiga anyway. :P
Exactly what is so horrible about the Windows GUI? The title bars don't take up any more space than they do in Gnome, KDE, Window Maker, or ANYTHING ELSE for that matter. The interface is one of the few things about Windows you can't complain about. I have never been confused about anything in Windows pertaining to the UI. It might not be what you are used to, but that's entirely the point. There are a lot of people out there that HAVE NOT USED LINUX BEFORE AND MIGHT DO SO IF IT LOOKED AND FELT MORE FAMILIAR. This project is not aimed at the people that already use Linux. It is not aimed at you, me, or for that matter, ANYONE that regularly reads and posts on Slashdot. It is a stepping stone. It is to be treated as such.
But when you're still learning CLI usage and you don't know all the commands by heart, you're screwed. You have to remember that most computer users have probably never used a command line before and the thought of opening up a DOS box to do what Explorer can is stupid (to them).
My perspective, which is of coursed biased by being a TOS/Mac/OS2/X/Win/X-user, in that order, over the last 15 years,
Exactly. You've used many different setups over a 15 year period. In the 10+ years I've been working with computers, it's been Windows only. There are millions of people in a similar situation. But they're scared to death of losing productivity when switching to a new OS, and I can't blame them. If we can have a GUI that helps ease the transition, then it's a good idea to make one.
They're all installed because they were all included on the Mandrake CD's, except for Fluxbox. When I first installed it, I didn't know anything about any of them, so I installed them all. After messing with each one for a while I found that Window Maker and Blackbox work best for me.
What does this WM do that I couldn't do in the past? If you've used Linux for a long time, not a damn thing. If you haven't used it and are interested in doing so, but don't want to learn a whole new way of doing things, it does a lot. Of course, the instant reply is "But it's Linux, not Windows. Everything IS different." To which I say "That's not the point. The point is, not everyone was born with a UNIX manual rammed up their bum. Some people didn't start using computers until AFTER MS dominated the market and haven't used a computer with anything but Windows. For them it's a matter of what they can do NOW, not what they CAN DO ONCE THEY LEARN HOW." Which gets the reply "Yeah.... but... Linux rules all." Then you smack me in the head with a stuffed Tux and run off. What is the problem to which this is the solution? User fear. Some people that want to try Linux are afraid to because jumping from Windows to even KDE is a huge step (and one I did just recently, so I know how it is). And from Windows to Window Maker? Forget it. It's an intermediate level and nothing more. IMO, at least.
KDE, Gnome, Window Maker, Blackbox, Fluxbox, FVWM, IceWM, TWM, KWM, MWM, Enlightenment... and that's only the ones I have installed. How many more do you want?
Maybe they'll manage to build a decent file manager. As much as I hate to say it, for MY USE, Windows file manager destroys all the Linux equivalents (Konqueror, Nautilus, etc.). I'm not saying that either one of those is bad, but both have problems that just put me off. For most of my file managing needs I use Midnight Commander, which sucks in an Xterm. I actually can see the use of copying XP's interface. Unlike most here, I'm a REAL WORLD computer user (that was a joke. Laugh.). The people that I know freak out if one of their icons goes missing. There's no way they'd ever learn how to use Gnome. But if you take a distro like Knoppix and throw a familiar face on it, they might change their minds.
So because you don't have to use braces, you're not going to go near it? It's not fucking COBOL, dude. The images Python invokes are nothing like it actually WORKS. Pull your head out of your ass and try it some day, you might like it.
Are you surprised? Vidcard technology is moving faster than game technology at this point. In the 18-24 months it takes a game to be developed you're looking at it go from being bleeding edge, to it being behind everyone else. Eventually someone is going to be burned by this cycle, and it most likely will be the "$400 every six month" video card manufacturers.
Exactly. Quality control is boring work. I loved my job, but it just was so damned boring sometimes. There's only so much of one thing you can look at before it gets annoying.
The Saturn, Dreamcast, and Playstation all had direct arcade versions. The arcade versions were slightly modified (mostly with more memory) but still the same hardware.
I worked for eight months as a QC in spector for a guitar company. Much like them, I thought my job was going to be to sit around and play all day. Of course, it wasn't. Guitars don't QC themselves and when you're staring at a stack of 100 that have to be out today and it's already noon, you start to realise that no matter what you're working on, you're still WORKING. It's still a job. Let's put it this way. How many of you here love working on computers? Now, how many of you like your job? Now how many would want to spend 100 hours at your job in a single week? Yeah, I thought not. Work is work, no matter how glamorous it sounds.