We really need a hardware accelerated DirectX desktop for a want-to-be-your-server-OS.... NOT.
Longhorn isn't a server OS. Next.
Windows File Protection (WFP)
This is no different than the system files in Linux being accessible only by root.
DRM support that's part of the Windows Media Player
What DRM support? You mean that checkbox that comes up the very first time when you run WMP9? The one that asks you to set up all the privacy options right from the start? It's three simple checkboxes--song lookup, media file lookup, and automatically grabbing licenses for copyrighted content. No DRM at all.
Registration + Re-Registration on HW changs
I've never encountered that, and in fact, SP1 increase the leeway for hardware changes. It's not even an issue and I doubt you've ever come across it (in other words, you're just making up issues you've never even experienced).
Nice Messenger running by default and needs a guru to remove
Agreed. Though it doesn't require a "guru" whatsoever.
I'm not having your CD problem at all. I'm using SuSE 8.2:-)
No kidding. You're struggling with trying to read the ugly-ass font rendering on this web page right now.;)
Agreed. Though Microsoft is being a bit more ambitious with the 3D effects according to their tech demos. But by then, OS X should be pretty advanced as well. We'll have to see.
Compared to the number of security errata fixes Redhat puts out, I'd say only three fixes, two of them non-critical, is enough to make people stop bitching already. 2003 is damned solid.
Actually kernel is a synonym for operating system. An operating system doesn't include userland apps.
I know that. I agree with you. I thought that was clear from my post. I was saying you can't have it both ways.
Which is why when refering to the operating system please call it by the name the author chose for it, LINUX. GNU/Linux is a name made up by someone who writes applications which have a port to the Linux operating system.
They'll have to come up with a new way to keep people buying Microsoft... who knows what it will be.
Subscription-based software via.NET.
Active directory? People STILL don't know what it is or what it's for or how it can improve the way they do business.
I'm not sure what you mean here. All Windows networks I've ever worked with use Active Directory. It's the central part of both 2000 and 2003 Server. You don't really have a choice in the matter.
That's not his point, he's suggesting that the new version is eyecandy - not extra functionability. When I use XP I immediatly goto the "classic" theme and make it show the standard desktop icons just to be able to use the damn thing. I certainly am not alone in that regard.
You'll be able to do the same in Longhorn.
The above. The "are you sure you want to view these system folders" screen.
Again, it's a one-time thing. You click the link and it's gone.
The crippled search option until you change folder options to show "hidden" and system files. The hiding of tray icons, some of the 'inactive' ones are pretty important.
So turn auto-hide OFF! Come on--this is getting ridiculous. If, as you claim, you went so far as to configure the Start Menu back to Classic Mode, that means you had gone to Taskbar properties...and what checkbox is that right at the bottom? It makes me think you're trolling.
Here's a default Dell computer with Office. Try to just close, let alone remove, messenger. "Sorry, another program is using this." Umm, who? Its outlook, but it won't tell you that.
I will grant you that this is a retarded annoyance put in just to shove Messenger down our throats. Turn off messenging in Outlook. Then add the.inf for Messenger so you can uninstall it.
So for millions of people it sits there wasting RAM because they can't close it. More WMP means more browser intgration and DRM. Some people don't like that.
WMP9 asks you to configure its options the very minute you start it up. You can maintain your privacy easily and turn off all the digital rights management and song lookups. I don't know what you mean about browser integration because I said "No" when it asked me the first time--and it never did again. Of course, I now use Mozilla so the point is moot anyway.
Regardless, I have yet to see a good reason to move from 2000 to XP. System restore is tempting but not needed. When technophobes ask me why they can't just get Windows 2000, which they know pretty well, on their new computer I tell them its because Microsoft doesn't want them to. Learn XP or find your old 2K CD.
Oh, please.
People, Windows XP was a home-oriented release to get people off the 9x codebase. XP does have several enhancements over Windows 2000, in the kernel and in the user area, so there is of course a Professional version if people want to use it for their workstations. But the big deal about XP was the sudden injection of actual stability over the stinking pile of horseshit that was Windows 95 through ME (you wanna talk about bullshit Windows releases, read up on ME sometime). XP was geared toward home users. If you're using 2000 at work and it's fine for you, stick with it. Surely this is obvious.
The only reason I have XP and not 2000 on my laptop is because 2000 has generally crummy laptop support (the whole thing started slowing down and acting peculiar on me). XP runs like a dream. I tried Linux but I can't even get APM to work correctly no matter which distro or configuration I try.
The same could be true for Longhorn, the desktop model of computing is actually pretty simple and more bloat and pretty colors doesn't help - it hinders. I'd rather see effort put into the applications than the OS. Ideally, the OS shouldn't be the selling point, the apps should be. Pretty colors and 3D shouldn't be applauded, good HCI practices should be.
Visual cues are very important. And when people are spending all their working day sitting in front of Windows, it's more efficient and reduces fatigue to not have stark gray boxes but instead pleasant, flowing lines. Apple spends millions on this kind of research. So does Microsoft. They wouldn't be doing it if there wasn't a reason. I for one would love a beautiful OS to work in. There is nothing wrong with things fading in and out because it makes your work experience more seamless. An
Longhorn will have a tiered approach. There will be the full-on 3D configuration, the middle-level, and so on. You can scale all the way back to normal 2D operations like now, and they are even including the Windows 2000 theme like XP has.
This is all covered at WinSuperSite, by the way, in the "Road To Longhorn" articles. Whether or not you like Paul Thurrott, he has the sources in Microsoft to get actual information on future versions of Windows.
Well, look, no matter what Microsoft does, people bitch. Now they can't even announce their product line without it being an evil conspiracy.
Let's use this opportunity to finish playing catchup and then surpass them. People have been saying Linux is "ready for the desktop" since 1999, and it's just not, at least not with current offerings. Let's get to work!
Fine, I'll play marketing guy for you, since I follow this stuff.
* WinFS--SQL integration into the filesystem. You'll be able to search gigabytes of data and metadata.
* DirectX desktop. Gorgeous visual cues with no slowdown.
* Scalable desktop. Vector-based is a way to put it. If you have a really high-resolution monitor, things will be correctly scaled for you so you can see. Things will be the same size onscreen going from a 1024x768 to 1280x1024 resolution. You can also change the scale manually.
* Entirely.NET based. Though Win32-compatibility will no doubt be offered, everything including explorer.exe will all be running as.NET managed code.
* New, "photorealistic" interface called Aereo. Nobody really knows what's going on here, and they've said they might not release any screenshots until it's finished because they don't want their ideas being used elsewhere. This is actually the most intriguing to me. Will they revamp the whole Start menu/taskbar thing, or just stick with the idea they have in the current betas?
Um, why does it sound like an "OS development effort that is spinning out of control?" Seriously.
Betas and technology demos are given regularly. Microsoft recently had their developers conference take a look at Longhorn. They know what they're doing with this..NET has been planned since at least back in 2000. They're finally fixing all the things people bitch about--the interface, the filesystem, the security, and Win32--and people can only complain about the length of time it takes them.
The big deal with XP was getting all the home users off the 9x/DOS codebase. Sure, you corporate clients were barely affected--we were already running NT/2k.
XP is geared for home users, though they offer Professional because it does lend improvements over 2k that warrant it being used for workstations.
In Win2k and I believe XP why does it make me do a extra click everytime I go into one of the system folders?
Because people snooping around will realize it's a system folder they shouldn't be poking around in, and power users will just *click* the Show Content link and never see it again. How is this a problem?
I know I want to be in there or else I wouldn't have gone to the folder. I could understand it warning me once, but every single time I enter the folder.
Um, it only shows it the very first time.
I'm sure your going to say there is a registry hack out there to change this behavior, but I shouldn't have to be hacking the registry to put some sane behavior into my OS.
You're right. So just click Show Content and it won't ever show ever again. Or you could just uncheck the freaking box in Folder Options.
I'm always amazed at people who can hack up X config scripts yet are stumped by the simplest Windows options.
Another example is the XP search. When I go to do a search it makes me select some kind of search when all I want is to type a search string and go.
So hit the top link, All Files and do it.
It is all these extra clicks in Win2k and now XP that bug the hell out of me.
What extra clicks in 2k?
From the screenshots of longhorn I doubt I will be able to get any windows dev done w/o jumping through hoops just to open a file.
Doubtful. A bit initiative for Longhorn is easier access to files, particularly gigabytes of it. You'll be able to search absolutely everything.
Just to keep a bit on topic, let me give you my take on the delay. I think that MS is feeling the corporate backlash of forcing corps to upgrade, and not have the corps feel as though they got anything out of the money they spent. Many CTOs are sitting around wondering what XP gives them on a corp desktop that Win2k doesn't(I'm actually wondering too:) . The magazine and TV ads have all pointed to a more secure system, but we have seen how that panned out. So, in closing I think MS is now waiting for (or trying to find) a new "killer" tech to put into Longhorn so that there will be a clear reason to upgrade.
Honestly, I think the delay is just getting the technology working. Apparently, they're working on a completely new, photorealistic interface called Aero that, coupled with the hardware-accelerated desktop, is going to blow people away. They're talking about not even releasing preliminary shots of it for fear that people will steal their ideas.
Yeah, yeah, call me a Microsoft shill. I follow this stuff.
.NET will be all over Longhorn. Longhorn itself will be.NET based. The latest betas have explorer.exe running as.NET managed code.
They're leaving Win32 behind and going full.NET. The big push will be then, and you can bet the new version of Office will help that push, as well as a new Server product.
There are a lot of very major changes going on with Longhorn. I don't blame them for taking their time with this. From hardware acceleration on the desktop to SQL engine integration to revamping everything to run as.NET managed code, it'll be a lot of work.
When you have people arguing that Linux is a kernel not an operating system; it's the "userland environment" that makes up the GNU/Linux operating system, and there are holes in all those userland apps, it's a part of the operating system.
You can't have it both ways. Besides, those errata security fixes aren't for all those 1000 packages. Plus, look at my sig.
...I can't really say this really bothers me at all (yeah yeah, then just move on to next article, right?). But come on, what do I really expect? More eyecandy.
The desktop will be hardware accelerated DirectX, so eyecandy won't slow things down.
More "protection from myself".
People always play this card without citing a single example in XP. Can you?
More Messenger, WMP and goodness what else providing "integrated Windows features that can't be removed and keep nagging you".
How do they keep nagging you? I don't ever use WMP, and I removed Messenger at least a year ago.
I'm not having your CD problem at all. I'm using the latest Nero 6.
Come on, you can troll better than this.
DCOM didn't allow SoBig, it allowed MSBLASTER. But it was patched a whole month before. Slashdot reported on it, and the government even announced it twice.
SoBig is a user e-mail attachment thing. Microsoft can't go door to door holding people's hands. It's not their fault users are stupidly running the attachments.
You honestly think Microsoft is going to let Windows XP sit for six years? They've already said there won't be a Windows XP: Second Edition and that SP2 will be out next year.
Microsoft would stagnate with no new Windows release. 2006 at the latest, guaranteed. This is already a pretty big stretch.
The complete opposite is true. Microsoft is well-known for missing release dates. At least three of the previous releases of Windows were at least two years late.
The whole.NET was announced at least three years ago. Instead of complaining, lets take solace in the fact that they're at least trying to get it right, instead of some "release early, release often" schedule...
Just wanted to point that out. But I guess these days, mods don't reply to you when they disagree. They just mark you as "Troll" or "Flamebait" and go on to mod up the latest random SCO reference post or "you're new here, aren't you?" post.
I know this is offtopic; I turned off Karma Bonus accordingly.
Please. Seriously. Stop with all the ridiculous K prefixes or I will hammer a bullet into my forehead while leaving a loaded gun nearby just to confuse the authorities.
Everybody complains about it, nobody likes it, and the only people who think it's "cute" are the developers, and we've got enough silly in-joke project names as it is. Can we at least shoot for professional here?
Slashdot Mirror
We really need a hardware accelerated DirectX desktop for a want-to-be-your-server-OS .... NOT.
:-)
;)
Longhorn isn't a server OS. Next.
Windows File Protection (WFP)
This is no different than the system files in Linux being accessible only by root.
DRM support that's part of the Windows Media Player
What DRM support? You mean that checkbox that comes up the very first time when you run WMP9? The one that asks you to set up all the privacy options right from the start? It's three simple checkboxes--song lookup, media file lookup, and automatically grabbing licenses for copyrighted content. No DRM at all.
Registration + Re-Registration on HW changs
I've never encountered that, and in fact, SP1 increase the leeway for hardware changes. It's not even an issue and I doubt you've ever come across it (in other words, you're just making up issues you've never even experienced).
Nice Messenger running by default and needs a guru to remove
Agreed. Though it doesn't require a "guru" whatsoever.
I'm not having your CD problem at all. I'm using SuSE 8.2
No kidding. You're struggling with trying to read the ugly-ass font rendering on this web page right now.
Agreed. Though Microsoft is being a bit more ambitious with the 3D effects according to their tech demos. But by then, OS X should be pretty advanced as well. We'll have to see.
Compared to the number of security errata fixes Redhat puts out, I'd say only three fixes, two of them non-critical, is enough to make people stop bitching already. 2003 is damned solid.
Actually kernel is a synonym for operating system. An operating system doesn't include userland apps.
I know that. I agree with you. I thought that was clear from my post. I was saying you can't have it both ways.
Which is why when refering to the operating system please call it by the name the author chose for it, LINUX. GNU/Linux is a name made up by someone who writes applications which have a port to the Linux operating system.
I agree 100%.
They'll have to come up with a new way to keep people buying Microsoft... who knows what it will be.
.NET.
Subscription-based software via
Active directory? People STILL don't know what it is or what it's for or how it can improve the way they do business.
I'm not sure what you mean here. All Windows networks I've ever worked with use Active Directory. It's the central part of both 2000 and 2003 Server. You don't really have a choice in the matter.
That's not his point, he's suggesting that the new version is eyecandy - not extra functionability. When I use XP I immediatly goto the "classic" theme and make it show the standard desktop icons just to be able to use the damn thing. I certainly am not alone in that regard.
.inf for Messenger so you can uninstall it.
You'll be able to do the same in Longhorn.
The above. The "are you sure you want to view these system folders" screen.
Again, it's a one-time thing. You click the link and it's gone.
The crippled search option until you change folder options to show "hidden" and system files. The hiding of tray icons, some of the 'inactive' ones are pretty important.
So turn auto-hide OFF! Come on--this is getting ridiculous. If, as you claim, you went so far as to configure the Start Menu back to Classic Mode, that means you had gone to Taskbar properties...and what checkbox is that right at the bottom? It makes me think you're trolling.
Here's a default Dell computer with Office. Try to just close, let alone remove, messenger. "Sorry, another program is using this." Umm, who? Its outlook, but it won't tell you that.
I will grant you that this is a retarded annoyance put in just to shove Messenger down our throats. Turn off messenging in Outlook. Then add the
So for millions of people it sits there wasting RAM because they can't close it. More WMP means more browser intgration and DRM. Some people don't like that.
WMP9 asks you to configure its options the very minute you start it up. You can maintain your privacy easily and turn off all the digital rights management and song lookups. I don't know what you mean about browser integration because I said "No" when it asked me the first time--and it never did again. Of course, I now use Mozilla so the point is moot anyway.
Regardless, I have yet to see a good reason to move from 2000 to XP. System restore is tempting but not needed. When technophobes ask me why they can't just get Windows 2000, which they know pretty well, on their new computer I tell them its because Microsoft doesn't want them to. Learn XP or find your old 2K CD.
Oh, please.
People, Windows XP was a home-oriented release to get people off the 9x codebase. XP does have several enhancements over Windows 2000, in the kernel and in the user area, so there is of course a Professional version if people want to use it for their workstations. But the big deal about XP was the sudden injection of actual stability over the stinking pile of horseshit that was Windows 95 through ME (you wanna talk about bullshit Windows releases, read up on ME sometime). XP was geared toward home users. If you're using 2000 at work and it's fine for you, stick with it. Surely this is obvious.
The only reason I have XP and not 2000 on my laptop is because 2000 has generally crummy laptop support (the whole thing started slowing down and acting peculiar on me). XP runs like a dream. I tried Linux but I can't even get APM to work correctly no matter which distro or configuration I try.
The same could be true for Longhorn, the desktop model of computing is actually pretty simple and more bloat and pretty colors doesn't help - it hinders. I'd rather see effort put into the applications than the OS. Ideally, the OS shouldn't be the selling point, the apps should be. Pretty colors and 3D shouldn't be applauded, good HCI practices should be.
Visual cues are very important. And when people are spending all their working day sitting in front of Windows, it's more efficient and reduces fatigue to not have stark gray boxes but instead pleasant, flowing lines. Apple spends millions on this kind of research. So does Microsoft. They wouldn't be doing it if there wasn't a reason. I for one would love a beautiful OS to work in. There is nothing wrong with things fading in and out because it makes your work experience more seamless. An
Longhorn will have a tiered approach. There will be the full-on 3D configuration, the middle-level, and so on. You can scale all the way back to normal 2D operations like now, and they are even including the Windows 2000 theme like XP has.
This is all covered at WinSuperSite, by the way, in the "Road To Longhorn" articles. Whether or not you like Paul Thurrott, he has the sources in Microsoft to get actual information on future versions of Windows.
Well, look, no matter what Microsoft does, people bitch. Now they can't even announce their product line without it being an evil conspiracy.
Let's use this opportunity to finish playing catchup and then surpass them. People have been saying Linux is "ready for the desktop" since 1999, and it's just not, at least not with current offerings. Let's get to work!
Fine, I'll play marketing guy for you, since I follow this stuff.
.NET based. Though Win32-compatibility will no doubt be offered, everything including explorer.exe will all be running as .NET managed code.
* WinFS--SQL integration into the filesystem. You'll be able to search gigabytes of data and metadata.
* DirectX desktop. Gorgeous visual cues with no slowdown.
* Scalable desktop. Vector-based is a way to put it. If you have a really high-resolution monitor, things will be correctly scaled for you so you can see. Things will be the same size onscreen going from a 1024x768 to 1280x1024 resolution. You can also change the scale manually.
* Entirely
* New, "photorealistic" interface called Aereo. Nobody really knows what's going on here, and they've said they might not release any screenshots until it's finished because they don't want their ideas being used elsewhere. This is actually the most intriguing to me. Will they revamp the whole Start menu/taskbar thing, or just stick with the idea they have in the current betas?
We'll have to wait and see.
Um, why does it sound like an "OS development effort that is spinning out of control?" Seriously.
.NET has been planned since at least back in 2000. They're finally fixing all the things people bitch about--the interface, the filesystem, the security, and Win32--and people can only complain about the length of time it takes them.
Betas and technology demos are given regularly. Microsoft recently had their developers conference take a look at Longhorn. They know what they're doing with this.
The big deal with XP was getting all the home users off the 9x/DOS codebase. Sure, you corporate clients were barely affected--we were already running NT/2k.
XP is geared for home users, though they offer Professional because it does lend improvements over 2k that warrant it being used for workstations.
In Win2k and I believe XP why does it make me do a extra click everytime I go into one of the system folders?
:) . The magazine and TV ads have all pointed to a more secure system, but we have seen how that panned out. So, in closing I think MS is now waiting for (or trying to find) a new "killer" tech to put into Longhorn so that there will be a clear reason to upgrade.
Because people snooping around will realize it's a system folder they shouldn't be poking around in, and power users will just *click* the Show Content link and never see it again. How is this a problem?
I know I want to be in there or else I wouldn't have gone to the folder. I could understand it warning me once, but every single time I enter the folder.
Um, it only shows it the very first time.
I'm sure your going to say there is a registry hack out there to change this behavior, but I shouldn't have to be hacking the registry to put some sane behavior into my OS.
You're right. So just click Show Content and it won't ever show ever again. Or you could just uncheck the freaking box in Folder Options.
I'm always amazed at people who can hack up X config scripts yet are stumped by the simplest Windows options.
Another example is the XP search. When I go to do a search it makes me select some kind of search when all I want is to type a search string and go.
So hit the top link, All Files and do it.
It is all these extra clicks in Win2k and now XP that bug the hell out of me.
What extra clicks in 2k?
From the screenshots of longhorn I doubt I will be able to get any windows dev done w/o jumping through hoops just to open a file.
Doubtful. A bit initiative for Longhorn is easier access to files, particularly gigabytes of it. You'll be able to search absolutely everything.
Just to keep a bit on topic, let me give you my take on the delay. I think that MS is feeling the corporate backlash of forcing corps to upgrade, and not have the corps feel as though they got anything out of the money they spent. Many CTOs are sitting around wondering what XP gives them on a corp desktop that Win2k doesn't(I'm actually wondering too
Honestly, I think the delay is just getting the technology working. Apparently, they're working on a completely new, photorealistic interface called Aero that, coupled with the hardware-accelerated desktop, is going to blow people away. They're talking about not even releasing preliminary shots of it for fear that people will steal their ideas.
Yeah, yeah, call me a Microsoft shill. I follow this stuff.
.NET will be all over Longhorn. Longhorn itself will be .NET based. The latest betas have explorer.exe running as .NET managed code.
.NET. The big push will be then, and you can bet the new version of Office will help that push, as well as a new Server product.
.NET managed code, it'll be a lot of work.
They're leaving Win32 behind and going full
There are a lot of very major changes going on with Longhorn. I don't blame them for taking their time with this. From hardware acceleration on the desktop to SQL engine integration to revamping everything to run as
Cite a source and prove it.
Oh, that's right, you can disable Palladium. But it's fun to forget that, isn't it?
Of course there is.
When you have people arguing that Linux is a kernel not an operating system; it's the "userland environment" that makes up the GNU/Linux operating system, and there are holes in all those userland apps, it's a part of the operating system.
You can't have it both ways. Besides, those errata security fixes aren't for all those 1000 packages. Plus, look at my sig.
The desktop will be hardware accelerated DirectX, so eyecandy won't slow things down.
More "protection from myself".
People always play this card without citing a single example in XP. Can you?
More Messenger, WMP and goodness what else providing "integrated Windows features that can't be removed and keep nagging you".
How do they keep nagging you? I don't ever use WMP, and I removed Messenger at least a year ago.
I'm not having your CD problem at all. I'm using the latest Nero 6.
Come on, you can troll better than this. DCOM didn't allow SoBig, it allowed MSBLASTER. But it was patched a whole month before. Slashdot reported on it, and the government even announced it twice. SoBig is a user e-mail attachment thing. Microsoft can't go door to door holding people's hands. It's not their fault users are stupidly running the attachments.
You honestly think Microsoft is going to let Windows XP sit for six years? They've already said there won't be a Windows XP: Second Edition and that SP2 will be out next year.
Microsoft would stagnate with no new Windows release. 2006 at the latest, guaranteed. This is already a pretty big stretch.
Meanwhile, there is my sig.
The complete opposite is true. Microsoft is well-known for missing release dates. At least three of the previous releases of Windows were at least two years late.
.NET was announced at least three years ago. Instead of complaining, lets take solace in the fact that they're at least trying to get it right, instead of some "release early, release often" schedule...
The whole
Welcome to Slashdot Double Standard #38,498. Drive through, and please come again.
It's tiring when nobody listens to the users. And the repetitive Ks are more "old" than posts like this, I feel.
Just wanted to point that out. But I guess these days, mods don't reply to you when they disagree. They just mark you as "Troll" or "Flamebait" and go on to mod up the latest random SCO reference post or "you're new here, aren't you?" post.
I know this is offtopic; I turned off Karma Bonus accordingly.
Please. Seriously. Stop with all the ridiculous K prefixes or I will hammer a bullet into my forehead while leaving a loaded gun nearby just to confuse the authorities.
Everybody complains about it, nobody likes it, and the only people who think it's "cute" are the developers, and we've got enough silly in-joke project names as it is. Can we at least shoot for professional here?
The result is that something like Blaster gets caught before your whole network is infested.
Instead of buying something called "Billy Goat," you could also just download the free patch that fixed it a month before...