"Just how long can that continue? Here in the US we just crossed the 300M mark. At least half of that number is useless baggage, through lack of education, genetic fitness or both when it comes to contributing in a meaningful way in a modern information society. But a very large percentage of the next generation will come from the useless half because successful (again, as viewed by their useful contributions to civilization) people can't afford children of their own because they are too busy supporting the welfare state."
That materialistic aristolean viewpoint pushed by the elites (that people are no better than animals really) to counter the Renaissance is still by far the prevalent one in the 'Enlightened' western countries. Thats why morons who compare people to 'useless baggage' because somehow they arent as capable to make the rich richer in a society due to lack of education etc.. doesnt get the nauseated reaction it deserves.
Not until people can see and and respect the unique humanity contained in other human beings will this world get better. Just take a look at how those 'crazy' Amish treated that killers wife and her family, reaching out to her, showing no revenge and even giving her gifts since she lost a bread-winner, it is unfathomable to most people.
All this social darwinism crap is to make the rich 'elite' feel better about themselves and for the mass-produced 'wannabees' to digest so they can try and feel better about themselves as they work harder for bigger cars and houses they dont need as they loose contact with what it is which makes them truly human.
Maybe its the mass dumbing down of all classes which is the cause for this surreal state we are all in?
Im enslaved by my own materialistic greed? Im prepared to pay less if it means forcing other americans out of their jobs? BS.
I work because I have to. I got a degree in science and work in the tech sector because that was the best option given to me. Since the dawn of the industrial age ppl have gone from farm hands and peasants to worker bees and consumers, its what society expects of us.
Blaming just average ppl for being materialistic whilst ignoring the fact we are inandated by pro-consumption and money worship everywhere is ignoring the full picture. The march of technology would no be possible w.o. capital gain, wars or simple nationalistic posturing and the worker bees who make it lucrative for the investors.
Good point. Moreover what about advanced technology in the hands of our gov'ts? With technology controlled by the few, the more threat to freedoms and civil liberties of the many. Anyone who thinks progress is driven mostly by altruism instead of greed (opensource not-withsranding;-)is horribly naive.
No doubt there will probably be more use of nuclear reactors, but are only part of the solution, they still require power to maintain.
Oil is still reqd for a multitude of uses, like food production. Processing of shale and coal is a lot less efficient. Economic growth as which is important for technological advancement must slow down w.o. easy oil.
Yep, seems like many techies and scientists,much like economists and bankers are either in denial of this or naively think the markets or technology will somehow naturally put forth a simple (in terms of no global insstability and a no energy crisis) solution.
Exactly! Oil is the main reason we have such rapid technological developments, why we have such a population explosion all because our modern global economy is so dependent on it. Its easy to say that we'll find alernatives, but on closer inspection nothing nearly comes as close to oil in its efficiency (something like 30:1 return on energy reqd to process it for fuel) and everything we else we use it for, crop production, plastics etc.. Virtually all experts believe that demand is outstripping supply, so we have a finite supply which will hit peak prodcution sometime between now and 2035, probably by 2015 the latest. Perhaps these nanobots can create oil out of thin air, or more efficiently tap into other energy sources at much lower scales and cause the singularity, but it seems to me more likely to be a significant powerdown in the future than an AI explosion. Dont know which I prefer anymore.
There were originally more 'gospels' written than the ones in the bible, some if not all which portrayed him as merely a prophet.
The man responsible (cant remember his name) in choosing the gospels which went into the bible was a 'son of god' believer and was eventually made a saint by the catholics.
I think a substantial amount of americans believe in a fairly literal interpratation of the bible. So much so the far right christians have been used as a powerful political force by republicans.
You go to the midwest heartland and southern states, you'll see.
The Left Behind series about upcoming Rapture sells millions. I have a fair few family members who read those books and believe. They are also the ones who think the president shouldnt be questioned. Ones a school teacher too.
I think they are hearing it from their preachers at sermons. Well actually I know they are.
Tax exemption my arse.
meant to say:
Creationism is not falsifiable, it cant be a science. Evolution 'as we understand it' is. One is not a substitute for the other. Please file this class under the subsection Philosophy(Theology). The USA has turned into a country where if someone like Bush calls Theology a science, it must be true. Thomas Friedman calls globalisation natural and good for citizens, then it must be true.
Ahh just when I thought my
Creationism is not falsifiable, it cant be a science. Evolution 'as we understand it' is. One is not a substitute for the other.
Please file this class under the subsection Philosophy(Theology).
The USA has turned into a country where if someone like Bush calls Theology a science, it must be true. Thomas Friedman calls globalisation natural and good for citizens, then it must be true.
"Part of me thinks Rockstar is trying to make money by peddling offensive ideas to kids, but that really doesn't matter."
Hmmn maybe, but I know a helluva lot of adults who love their games.
These grandstanders are doing a job far better than rockstar's marketing division.
Yeah that diagram blantantly points out the solar power from the sun to grow the damn crops. Its latent and always there and shouldnt be factored in.
Maybe Im misreading the diagram, but that certainly looks like what they're doing.
Taking into account the free energy from the sun in order to grow the crops IS misleading the public.
check out the explanation of the study here:
http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/Biofuels/uc_s cientist_says_ethanol_uses_m.htm
Then their methods of harnessing the ethanol are'nt the most efficient either.
Unfortunately the public will be mislead time and again over the use of non-fossil fuel alternatives. Wish politics would stay out of science.
"I've been following this research at princeton since Prof Robert Jahn showed that there was a 1 in 5000 chance that ppl were able to influence random events mentally."
-I meant 1 in 5000 chance that they weren't able and thus it is due to chance/luck.
Read the GCP page! 'Random Sources' Link http://noosphere.princeton.edu/ These are quantum event number generators, totally unpredictable. These results are truly spectacular and deserve to be scrutinised more closely. Nelson's team are very retiscent and themselves are playing down the results which are truly mindboggling. They are doing the right thing, not sensationalising it and causing a stink with naysayers who will not be able to accept these results and what they could mean.
The 'skeptical' link posted above remember does not critise Nelson's GCP team itself, just a researcher who seems to have step ahead in his enthusiasm of it and allegedly his own hedging of data selection. It also supports the evidence that the deviations start appearing a little time *before* the actual event. The fact that this researcher couldnt answer the skeptic as to what was causing the deviations before the event does not mean the results are invalid, they just require more research.
It seems to me that in science ppl tend to be very conservative for the sake of their own careers, despite science requiring painstaking rigour and reconfirmation of results. So when something as far fetched as these results suggest, many scientists seem to refuse to keep an open mind perhaps at the detriment of new research.
I've been following this research at princeton since Prof Robert Jahn showed that there was a 1 in 5000 chance that ppl were able to influence random events mentally. The statistical and mathematical analysis is thorough and hard to refute, both in Jahns work and here. What *is* causing these effects and the effects in these results is going to be interesting and I would put money down that it isnt just hedging of data by deranged scientists at princeton.
The notion of 'never blindly accept any theory as fact.' is defintely great advice, but lets not all act like Emmanual Kant here.
I know enough through critical reading about the evidence of evolution and it's quite clear to me that this is a church and state issue. Evolution is observable, just not trans-species which takes more time than most folks live;-) It's the intent of the church to slander a theory which has much empirical evidence.
You see science is quite happy to move on and teach a newer theory if the older one is wrong. Like atomic theory, kids learn about quantum theory, at least a shallow version, rather than the Rutherford version which was taught in the early 20's. Can't say that about other institutions. There is REAL evidence for evolution just like quantum theory. Like atomic theory, evolution will be refined as we understand genetics better.
Anyway, the use of the the term species is to help categorize different animals into the mainly anatomical state which they exist in at the present. Though genetics will help define the species much better and pin down the evolutionary links between them more accurately.
"People have not yet been able to create anything nearly as complex as a machine which can produce more of itself outside of laboratory conditions, and the idea that such machines just "happened" accidentally is far-fetched at best."
Quantum and Particle Physics keeps astounding us with what is capable (energy-time existance trade offs etc.), but as my girlfriend says,'There is no proof disproving God.'
Not sure if I got your point, but when you say 'just "happened"', we didnt 'just happen', we are most probably the product of billions of years of evolution in immensly favorable conditions to develop complex life forms based on carbon and water.
"I have never heard a remotely plausible theory regarding the origin of life. People have not yet been able to create anything nearly as complex as a machine which can produce more of itself outside of laboratory conditions..."
Many new theories suggest that the building blocks of life came from space, not here on Earth. We have just detected complex hydocarbons in space with our meager spectrometers which are representitive of the main building blocks of proteins here on earth. We are only just beginning to appreciate the chemical diversity of our galaxy and universe and the conditions which life might evolve (Mars anyone?) You also mention that nobody has been able to create any machine which has been able to produce more of itself outside of lab conditions. Well the mear fact that we can create genetic algorithms with enhance themselves through self productions says a lot no? I mean its far less complex than humans sharing genes to create another human, but we have yet to master that level complexity. Technology is increasing as an accelerating rate, and it isnt just christians who are scared...
"I've had enough of the academic liberal elites using their credentials to foist lies on the American people. "
-----
Wow,/. really is full of fools.
LOL, this story posted on some minor marginalised 'alternative' news wesbites is very dangerous to society?? LMFAO!!
No wonder I dont post here. This story definitely has questionable merits there is some basis in reality here which needs to be more closly investigated nonetheless, but to draw far flung conclusions attacking liberalism and like you is just another sign of brainwashing.
What about the day in day out mainstream news media which has as much journalistic integrity as Pravda anymore.
Give me a f**king break.
"I'm not a fan of Bush, but he was re-elected by a majority and I will live with that."
By a majority? The majority Tom Brokaw reports that was counted are the actual voting majority?
If he did win the election fairly (Im willing to except this), unfortunately all it means is that this young nation is going to have to learn the hard way, you learn best from your mistakes and sometimes a dog needs to have its face rubbed in shit.
'A bill has been introduced to amend HAVA. H.R.2239 and its twin Senate counterpart S.1980, discussed further here, will amend the Help America Vote Act such that there is "a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy" attached with each and every ballot cast by every voter, and that "any voting system containing or using software shall disclose the source code of that software to the Commission, and the Commission shall make that source code available for inspection upon request to any citizen".
Additionally, the three electronic voting manufacturers already have the ability to add permanent, individual voter-verified paper audit trails to their products. Some e-voting critics make it seem like vendors are resisting. However, it is the local election boards that are resisting (as well as the slow march of bureaucracy). The e-voting vendors will build - and sell - whatever municipalities will buy.'
Thanks for the links to these Bills, its a little bit too though late eh? You say that the election wasnt "stolen", you simply dont know this.
I agree with the slow march of bureacracy (which is exploited by the powerful), but Im definitely not inclined to believe that the 2 sister companies who create these voting machines are to be trusted at all until there is more disclosure suggesting otherwise, especially when you consider all the circumstancial evidence..
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/6.html/http://www.bartcop.com/110904votes.htm/
FACT: Rep. Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska ran the first "field test" of the voting software, running for senate while
still CEO of ES&S. His company counted the votes and his victory, in a predominantly black and Democratic district which had not
voted Republican in a hundred years, and involving a multi-point swing from pre-election polls, was considered by the press "an amazing upset."
You can verify this information easily by googling, regardless if that was a 'liberal' site or not.
The Freeman statistical analysis I myself would need to look at more closely, but the history of diebold ES&S and the secrecy around these machines is chilling to say the least.
More information here..
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/6.html
Dude, ignorance is bliss man..
I've been very intrigued at how the once accurate (within 2% accuracy to the actual voting numbers) exit poll data that has been used since 1965, the same methods being used across europe as well suddenly is to blame for the descrepancies in 2000, 2002 primaries and 2004 where opti-scan and other black box voting has occured. Dr.Stephen Freeman of U of Penn, made a statisical analysis of the unweighted exit poll data of the 2004 election and came to the conclusion that the odds that the exit poll data could be that wrong in only 3 combined swing states together (Florida and Ohio included) was conservatively at 622,000 to 1. I have read a critique of his use of data, but essentially there was something majorly significant with the way the exit poll data differed. Then of course you consider how the companies who create the machines are 1. major Bush backers, 2.Fought against paper audits of their machines. 3. Fought against the code being open to public scrutiny, 4. The software testing is done out of public eye, by a private company closely attached to the voting machine creators. 5. In 2002 Rep. Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska ran the first "field test" of the vote couting software, running for senate while still CEO of ES&S (basically a sistercompany as Diebold, same software, machinesetc..). His company counted the votes and his victory, in a predominantly black and Democratic district which had not voted Republican in a hundred years, and involving a multi-point swing from pre-election polls, was considered by the press "an amazing upset."
You dont have to be a liberal or conspiracy theorist to be more than majorly alarmed at this. Im surprised more americans are'nt up in arms.
I dont necessarily believe that just voting machines harmed the election, jeez, just look at the legal mess in Ohio right now in general...Hmmn maybe thats why Bush's ohio vote was ratified today, 6 days early:
"Judiciary Committee Demands Explanation of Irregularities in Ohio
Election Law Reform In a fifteen page letter to Ohio SoS Kenneth Blackwell, The House Judiciary Committee has asked for explanation of widespread voting irregularities in Ohio. These include:
1) Warren County lockdown - The admin building where votes were counted was locked down on election night and the public and the press excluded from the process. County officials claimed this was done in response to a terrorist warning that neither the FBI , nor Blackwell's office knew of,.
2) Perry County counting discrepencies - Poll books examined after the election show more votes cast than actual voters voting. Computer errors were blamed for other problems where votes were counted twice.
3) Perry County registration peculiarities- Very high percentage of registered voters in the county (91%) many registered in the same year and lacking signatures on file.
4) Unusual results in Butler County - A Supreme Court candidate for office received 5,000 votes more than did the Kerry ticket, whereas the Bush ticket got 40,000 more votes than the Republican judicials candidate.
5) Unusual results in Cuyahoga County - Unusually high votes for third party candidates (in one instance, 215 votes for one candidate versus 8 votes for all third-party candidates combined in 2000).
6) Spoiled Ballots - Undervotes for president in one county were as high as 25% (6,000 votes!), with a total of 93,000 for the state.
7) Franklin County overvote - 4,258 votes counted for a precinct with only 800 registerd voters.
8) Miami County vote discrepency - 19,000 votes were added to election totals that had been missed, all for Bush.
9) Mahoning County machine problems - Numerous voters reported problems with not being able to select Kerry on voting machines which defaulted to Bush.
10) Machine shortages - In Franklin County long lines were
Slashdot Mirror
"Just how long can that continue? Here in the US we just crossed the 300M mark. At least half of that number is useless baggage, through lack of education, genetic fitness or both when it comes to contributing in a meaningful way in a modern information society. But a very large percentage of the next generation will come from the useless half because successful (again, as viewed by their useful contributions to civilization) people can't afford children of their own because they are too busy supporting the welfare state." That materialistic aristolean viewpoint pushed by the elites (that people are no better than animals really) to counter the Renaissance is still by far the prevalent one in the 'Enlightened' western countries. Thats why morons who compare people to 'useless baggage' because somehow they arent as capable to make the rich richer in a society due to lack of education etc.. doesnt get the nauseated reaction it deserves. Not until people can see and and respect the unique humanity contained in other human beings will this world get better. Just take a look at how those 'crazy' Amish treated that killers wife and her family, reaching out to her, showing no revenge and even giving her gifts since she lost a bread-winner, it is unfathomable to most people. All this social darwinism crap is to make the rich 'elite' feel better about themselves and for the mass-produced 'wannabees' to digest so they can try and feel better about themselves as they work harder for bigger cars and houses they dont need as they loose contact with what it is which makes them truly human. Maybe its the mass dumbing down of all classes which is the cause for this surreal state we are all in?
Ummn to stop political blackmail?
Im enslaved by my own materialistic greed? Im prepared to pay less if it means forcing other americans out of their jobs? BS. I work because I have to. I got a degree in science and work in the tech sector because that was the best option given to me. Since the dawn of the industrial age ppl have gone from farm hands and peasants to worker bees and consumers, its what society expects of us. Blaming just average ppl for being materialistic whilst ignoring the fact we are inandated by pro-consumption and money worship everywhere is ignoring the full picture. The march of technology would no be possible w.o. capital gain, wars or simple nationalistic posturing and the worker bees who make it lucrative for the investors.
Good point. Moreover what about advanced technology in the hands of our gov'ts? With technology controlled by the few, the more threat to freedoms and civil liberties of the many. Anyone who thinks progress is driven mostly by altruism instead of greed (opensource not-withsranding ;-)is horribly naive.
No doubt there will probably be more use of nuclear reactors, but are only part of the solution, they still require power to maintain. Oil is still reqd for a multitude of uses, like food production. Processing of shale and coal is a lot less efficient. Economic growth as which is important for technological advancement must slow down w.o. easy oil.
Yep, seems like many techies and scientists,much like economists and bankers are either in denial of this or naively think the markets or technology will somehow naturally put forth a simple (in terms of no global insstability and a no energy crisis) solution.
Exactly! Oil is the main reason we have such rapid technological developments, why we have such a population explosion all because our modern global economy is so dependent on it. Its easy to say that we'll find alernatives, but on closer inspection nothing nearly comes as close to oil in its efficiency (something like 30:1 return on energy reqd to process it for fuel) and everything we else we use it for, crop production, plastics etc..
Virtually all experts believe that demand is outstripping supply, so we have a finite supply which will hit peak prodcution sometime between now and 2035, probably by 2015 the latest.
Perhaps these nanobots can create oil out of thin air, or more efficiently tap into other energy sources at much lower scales and cause the singularity, but it seems to me more likely to be a significant powerdown in the future than an AI explosion.
Dont know which I prefer anymore.
There were originally more 'gospels' written than the ones in the bible, some if not all which portrayed him as merely a prophet. The man responsible (cant remember his name) in choosing the gospels which went into the bible was a 'son of god' believer and was eventually made a saint by the catholics.
I think a substantial amount of americans believe in a fairly literal interpratation of the bible. So much so the far right christians have been used as a powerful political force by republicans. You go to the midwest heartland and southern states, you'll see. The Left Behind series about upcoming Rapture sells millions. I have a fair few family members who read those books and believe. They are also the ones who think the president shouldnt be questioned. Ones a school teacher too. I think they are hearing it from their preachers at sermons. Well actually I know they are. Tax exemption my arse.
meant to say: Creationism is not falsifiable, it cant be a science. Evolution 'as we understand it' is. One is not a substitute for the other. Please file this class under the subsection Philosophy(Theology). The USA has turned into a country where if someone like Bush calls Theology a science, it must be true. Thomas Friedman calls globalisation natural and good for citizens, then it must be true.
Ahh just when I thought my Creationism is not falsifiable, it cant be a science. Evolution 'as we understand it' is. One is not a substitute for the other. Please file this class under the subsection Philosophy(Theology). The USA has turned into a country where if someone like Bush calls Theology a science, it must be true. Thomas Friedman calls globalisation natural and good for citizens, then it must be true.
"Part of me thinks Rockstar is trying to make money by peddling offensive ideas to kids, but that really doesn't matter." Hmmn maybe, but I know a helluva lot of adults who love their games. These grandstanders are doing a job far better than rockstar's marketing division.
There are probably a billion and one things more worthy of protest than Rockstar's next game.
end of message.
Yeah that diagram blantantly points out the solar power from the sun to grow the damn crops. Its latent and always there and shouldnt be factored in. Maybe Im misreading the diagram, but that certainly looks like what they're doing.
Taking into account the free energy from the sun in order to grow the crops IS misleading the public. check out the explanation of the study here: http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/Biofuels/uc_s cientist_says_ethanol_uses_m.htm
Then their methods of harnessing the ethanol are'nt the most efficient either.
Unfortunately the public will be mislead time and again over the use of non-fossil fuel alternatives. Wish politics would stay out of science.
"I've been following this research at princeton since Prof Robert Jahn showed that there was a 1 in 5000 chance that ppl were able to influence random events mentally." -I meant 1 in 5000 chance that they weren't able and thus it is due to chance/luck.
Read the GCP page!
'Random Sources' Link
http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
These are quantum event number generators, totally unpredictable.
These results are truly spectacular and deserve to be scrutinised more closely. Nelson's team are very retiscent and themselves are playing down the results which are truly mindboggling. They are doing the right thing, not sensationalising it and causing a stink with naysayers who will not be able to accept these results and what they could mean.
The 'skeptical' link posted above remember does not critise Nelson's GCP team itself, just a researcher who seems to have step ahead in his enthusiasm of it and allegedly his own hedging of data selection. It also supports the evidence that the deviations start appearing a little time *before* the actual event. The fact that this researcher couldnt answer the skeptic as to what was causing the deviations before the event does not mean the results are invalid, they just require more research.
It seems to me that in science ppl tend to be very conservative for the sake of their own careers, despite science requiring painstaking rigour and reconfirmation of results. So when something as far fetched as these results suggest, many scientists seem to refuse to keep an open mind perhaps at the detriment of new research.
I've been following this research at princeton since Prof Robert Jahn showed that there was a 1 in 5000 chance that ppl were able to influence random events mentally. The statistical and mathematical analysis is thorough and hard to refute, both in Jahns work and here.
What *is* causing these effects and the effects in these results is going to be interesting and I would put money down that it isnt just hedging of data by deranged scientists at princeton.
The notion of 'never blindly accept any theory as fact.' is defintely great advice, but lets not all act like Emmanual Kant here.
;-)
I know enough through critical reading about the evidence of evolution and it's quite clear to me that this is a church and state issue. Evolution is observable, just not trans-species which takes more time than most folks live
It's the intent of the church to slander a theory which has much empirical evidence.
You see science is quite happy to move on and teach a newer theory if the older one is wrong. Like atomic theory, kids learn about quantum theory, at least a shallow version, rather than the Rutherford version which was taught in the early 20's. Can't say that about other institutions.
There is REAL evidence for evolution just like quantum theory. Like atomic theory, evolution will be refined as we understand genetics better.
Anyway, the use of the the term species is to help categorize different animals into the mainly anatomical state which they exist in at the present. Though genetics will help define the species much better and pin down the evolutionary links between them more accurately.
"People have not yet been able to create anything nearly as complex as a machine which can produce more of itself outside of laboratory conditions, and the idea that such machines just "happened" accidentally is far-fetched at best."
Quantum and Particle Physics keeps astounding us with what is capable (energy-time existance trade offs etc.), but as my girlfriend says,'There is no proof disproving God.'
Not sure if I got your point, but when you say 'just "happened"', we didnt 'just happen', we are most probably the product of billions of years of evolution in immensly favorable conditions to develop complex life forms based on carbon and water.
"I have never heard a remotely plausible theory regarding the origin of life. People have not yet been able to create anything nearly as complex as a machine which can produce more of itself outside of laboratory conditions..."
Many new theories suggest that the building blocks of life came from space, not here on Earth.
We have just detected complex hydocarbons in space with our meager spectrometers which are representitive of the main building blocks of proteins here on earth. We are only just beginning to appreciate the chemical diversity of our galaxy and universe and the conditions which life might evolve (Mars anyone?)
You also mention that nobody has been able to create any machine which has been able to produce more of itself outside of lab conditions. Well the mear fact that we can create genetic algorithms with enhance themselves through self productions says a lot no? I mean its far less complex than humans sharing genes to create another human, but we have yet to master that level complexity.
Technology is increasing as an accelerating rate, and it isnt just christians who are scared...
"I've had enough of the academic liberal elites using their credentials to foist lies on the American people. " ----- Wow, /. really is full of fools.
LOL, this story posted on some minor marginalised 'alternative' news wesbites is very dangerous to society?? LMFAO!!
No wonder I dont post here. This story definitely has questionable merits there is some basis in reality here which needs to be more closly investigated nonetheless, but to draw far flung conclusions attacking liberalism and like you is just another sign of brainwashing.
What about the day in day out mainstream news media which has as much journalistic integrity as Pravda anymore.
Give me a f**king break.
"I'm not a fan of Bush, but he was re-elected by a majority and I will live with that." By a majority? The majority Tom Brokaw reports that was counted are the actual voting majority? If he did win the election fairly (Im willing to except this), unfortunately all it means is that this young nation is going to have to learn the hard way, you learn best from your mistakes and sometimes a dog needs to have its face rubbed in shit.
'A bill has been introduced to amend HAVA. H.R.2239 and its twin Senate counterpart S.1980, discussed further here, will amend the Help America Vote Act such that there is "a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy" attached with each and every ballot cast by every voter, and that "any voting system containing or using software shall disclose the source code of that software to the Commission, and the Commission shall make that source code available for inspection upon request to any citizen". Additionally, the three electronic voting manufacturers already have the ability to add permanent, individual voter-verified paper audit trails to their products. Some e-voting critics make it seem like vendors are resisting. However, it is the local election boards that are resisting (as well as the slow march of bureaucracy). The e-voting vendors will build - and sell - whatever municipalities will buy.' Thanks for the links to these Bills, its a little bit too though late eh? You say that the election wasnt "stolen", you simply dont know this. I agree with the slow march of bureacracy (which is exploited by the powerful), but Im definitely not inclined to believe that the 2 sister companies who create these voting machines are to be trusted at all until there is more disclosure suggesting otherwise, especially when you consider all the circumstancial evidence.. http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/6 .html/
http://www.bartcop.com/110904votes.htm/
FACT: Rep. Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska ran the first "field test" of the voting software, running for senate while
still CEO of ES&S. His company counted the votes and his victory, in a predominantly black and Democratic district which had not
voted Republican in a hundred years, and involving a multi-point swing from pre-election polls, was considered by the press "an amazing upset."
LMAO, they'd never allow that. It's not in their interest. Better start writing to our congressmen eh? http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/6 .html/
http://www.bartcop.com/110904votes.htm/
You can verify this information easily by googling, regardless if that was a 'liberal' site or not. The Freeman statistical analysis I myself would need to look at more closely, but the history of diebold ES&S and the secrecy around these machines is chilling to say the least. More information here.. http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/6 .html
Dude, ignorance is bliss man..
I've been very intrigued at how the once accurate (within 2% accuracy to the actual voting numbers) exit poll data that has been used since 1965, the same methods being used across europe as well suddenly is to blame for the descrepancies in 2000, 2002 primaries and 2004 where opti-scan and other black box voting has occured.
Dr.Stephen Freeman of U of Penn, made a statisical analysis of the unweighted exit poll data of the 2004 election and came to the conclusion that the odds that the exit poll data could be that wrong in only 3 combined swing states together (Florida and Ohio included) was conservatively at 622,000 to 1. I have read a critique of his use of data, but essentially there was something majorly significant with the way the exit poll data differed.
Then of course you consider how the companies who create the machines are
1. major Bush backers, 2.Fought against paper audits of their machines. 3. Fought against the code being open to public scrutiny, 4. The software testing is done out of public eye, by a private company closely attached to the voting machine creators. 5. In 2002 Rep. Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska ran the first "field test" of the vote couting software, running for senate while still CEO of ES&S (basically a sistercompany as Diebold, same software, machinesetc..). His company counted the votes and his victory, in a predominantly black and Democratic district which had not
voted Republican in a hundred years, and involving a multi-point swing from pre-election polls, was considered by the press "an amazing upset."
A very good summary of the facts...
http://www.bartcop.com/110904votes.htm/
You dont have to be a liberal or conspiracy theorist to be more than majorly alarmed at this.
Im surprised more americans are'nt up in arms.
I dont necessarily believe that just voting machines harmed the election, jeez, just look at the legal mess in Ohio right now in general...Hmmn maybe thats why Bush's ohio vote was ratified today, 6 days early:
"Judiciary Committee Demands Explanation of Irregularities in Ohio
Election Law Reform In a fifteen page letter to Ohio SoS Kenneth Blackwell, The House Judiciary Committee has asked for explanation of widespread voting irregularities in Ohio. These include:
1) Warren County lockdown - The admin building where votes were counted was locked down on election night and the public and the press excluded from the process. County officials claimed this was done in response to a terrorist warning that neither the FBI , nor Blackwell's office knew of,.
2) Perry County counting discrepencies - Poll books examined after the election show more votes cast than actual voters voting. Computer errors were blamed for other problems where votes were counted twice.
3) Perry County registration peculiarities- Very high percentage of registered voters in the county (91%) many registered in the same year and lacking signatures on file.
4) Unusual results in Butler County - A Supreme Court candidate for office received 5,000 votes more than did the Kerry ticket, whereas the Bush ticket got 40,000 more votes than the Republican judicials candidate.
5) Unusual results in Cuyahoga County - Unusually high votes for third party candidates (in one instance, 215 votes for one candidate versus 8 votes for all third-party candidates combined in 2000).
6) Spoiled Ballots - Undervotes for president in one county were as high as 25% (6,000 votes!), with a total of 93,000 for the state.
7) Franklin County overvote - 4,258 votes counted for a precinct with only 800 registerd voters.
8) Miami County vote discrepency - 19,000 votes were added to election totals that had been missed, all for Bush.
9) Mahoning County machine problems - Numerous voters reported problems with not being able to select Kerry on voting machines which defaulted to Bush.
10) Machine shortages - In Franklin County long lines were