"When we start calling people you use their rights "asses" we are effectively saying they shouldn't have those rights."
That's not true at all. He was being an ass about it. You have a right to speech too. You can make an ass of yourself when exercising that right too.
There's a lot of things you can do (or not do for that matter). Just because you exercise a "right" to something doesn't mean you're a good person for it. In the context of this situation, I think everyone involved was being an ass.
Not even close. So far apart to escape any sort of relevancy.
you're comparing someone who was denied access to a public facility because of their skin color to a person whose a privileged member of society complaining about a loss prevention clerk wanting to check his CC bag to make sure he didn't steal anything. And then proceeding to call the cops and get himself arrested.
Regardless of whose right (it's not black and white) he's going to have to go to court and fight for himself now. With his track record of losing (0-2 now, his bag was searched and he was given a ticket for being a pest) it doesn't look good. And this isn't a major civil rights issue so don't expect the cavalry to come charging in for this guy. The ACLU likely won't touch this,. No lawyer is going to do this. He's an angry, bitter little guy who is going to pay a little fine for wasting a lot of peoples time. I hope he gets over it and sees it isn't a big issue at all.
Now you're comparing this guys crusade to Rosa Parks.
Get real man. This guys a twat stain and everyone know it.
Something about the civil rights movement being compared to a guy refusing to play nice with a cop he called and baiting a store employee seems a little wrong to me.
Because he went about it all wrong. He thought he was outwitting someone here and was taking it to the man. In the end he looks like an ass in the court of public opinion and was charged with a crime. He will likely go to court with this same chip on his shoulder and be found guilty as charged.
If he had a problem with this, there are far better avenues to take. He embarrassed his family, wasted the resources of a police officer and will have nothing to show for it.
They never asked to pat him down. The stores line is they would like to take a look inside their bag. They don't want to check your pockets, they don't want to search you, they only want to look inside a company bag. Please don't create a slippery slope here.
Maybe he's right, sure? But it doesn't take away from the fact he acted like an ass. He's a privileged member of society acting like a fucking baby. These are the things people are getting worked up and about? We should march on the capital over this? Get real.
Wow, that's quite the slippery slope you've got there.
We're not talking about full cavity searches. I don't think anyone would find that reasonable. But here's a news flash: Judges don't like social misfits. They don't take kind to non-conformists, especially when it's for something as silly as this.
He's probably right, no doubt. But it doesn't really matter when examining the practicality of the situation. The judge is going to see this as a dispute between 2 people, not an illegal detention or kidnapping or however else you want to frame it. And then they're going to see an officer, whose highly trusted by the courts (recall these guys murder people and get away with it), determined this guy was a problem and needed to be arrested.
So all of a sudden a court is going to side with him? Of course not. He will be viewed as a problem and dealt with accordingly, right or wrong.
This guy is really doing civil rights leaders of past and present proud here. I'll bet Rosa Parks is looking down, really admiring this person for their courage.
You are gullible. Don't waste your money fighting for guys like this, who won't win. He won't. Donate that money to the many other people that really need help fighting injustice.
You're donating money to a privileged man here who is upset because he has everything. It's a worthless cause. There's plenty of other things going on that you really can help out with. $50.00 to this guy is a waste.
I agree 100% here. He's got nothing. There isn't a lawyer around whose going to take this guys "case". No judge is going to sympathize with a guy who is trying hard to be a social misfit. Even if the guys technically right, the judge is going to give him a little bit of practical advice and tell him to work the store next time to help prevent theft, keeping the prices lower for everyone else. He might reduce his ticket some and change the charge, but likely not. Why?
Because this guy is going to go to court with a chip on his shoulder. The judge will admire to himself how cute he looks, then judge him guilty as charged.
I kind of feel bad for the Circuit City manager. He was put in a damned if you do, damned if you don't predicament. You can't expect this guy to know much about the law so he's acting on what he has probably been told by his superiors. He did the wrong thing without a doubt, but he likely didn't know this. He'll probably lose his job if anything goes down and it's probably not fair.
As for the cop, he's a fascist and although he won't get into any trouble (they murder people and keep their jobs), he's still scum of the Earth like most other cops. Never look to a cop for help is the basic moral here. They're morons usually. Smart people usually don't become cops.
As for the writer, he's an all around jerk. He doesn't get off here. This all could have been easily avoided if he would have just played by the rules and showed the guy his receipt and left. You're working with the store here. They have loss prevention and if everyone plays along then less people are stealing and then prices stay lower for people like us who buy things. In theory. So do you have a "right" to not show a receipt? Yes. Are you a jerk not to? Yes.
So we're left with 3 asses in this story. The manager is an ass for not knowing at all how to handle the situation and believing he somehow could physically stop someone from something. A scary precedent when you think about it as he either believes he can do this naturally or his company told him to. Eventually someone is going to get shot for doing the same thing.
The cop is an ass because he doesn't know how to do his job. He's a filthy pig on a power trip with a badge. He's representative of your typical cop. Cops are usually asses so there's no surprise here.
Then the shopper was an ass for not playing along in a social environment he choose to be a part of. He tempted the tiger and got bit. He's going to probably lose his case if he can even find a lawyer. A similar thing recently happened to a guy on Kuro5hin and he couldn't even get a lawyer to talk to him. The shopper was slapped on the wrist for not conforming here and although its wrong, he didn't do anything to help himself.
LOTS of testosterone here. All 3 of these guys need to chill out and put the macho crap aside. It looks like they all need hugs.
Officers don't prosecute. DA's prosecute. An officer only sites suspects with charges. They are the peons of the legal system. Little machines sent out to gather suspects for the state to try in court for suspected crimes.
I'm guessing eventually a gig would be reached and beat. SQL Express only allows a gig of RAM it appears. That is, it will only consume a gig of RAM at any one time. So a large DB is going to suffer if it can't use more. But you never have to worry about it using more than a gig.
I think your original advice of using it until you find it's unusable is probably best. I'll just do that and see how it goes. Getting to over a gig in data is going to take some time. Looking at a DB right now, it's 2 MB with a decent amount of test data. I have to figure at peak the application will use 500 MB. This should do, for now.
Thanks for the information. I never had to search for free versions due to my MSDN account. I've had access to the "baller" versions for awhile.
I do use SQL Express at home when I'm messing around. I thought it was free with a Visual Studio install.
How well would that database hold up in a real world context? That is, how much abuse can it take? I want to deploy a little site that won't ever get a lot of traffic (few thousand a day at most) and don't want to pay for a SQL Server license. The isn't too database intensive, but it will make a query every time a user comes on. I'd rather use Express if I can (free). Is this practical?
True enough. I don't buy much commercial radio music myself. I happen to enjoy music from bands, musicians, etc that are of high quality. That is, they're generally doing something original or interesting and produce entire albums of good material, worth owning.
But I'm not sure what you or I would call "good music", or music with a "true artistic purpose" is in the context of this discussion. I believe they were mainly referencing commercial radio and "hit artists". Top 40 if you will. So in that context I think these people are getting a rude awakening.
That is, you can't create full albums of garbage with a couple "good songs" and expect to keep selling them to people, in todays market place.
Its never been an issue for me as you've correctly pointed out that music with purpose is generally good all around. In fact, most musicians I listen to probably never put out a greatest hits album or anything like that. Well, Devo did. But they also came out with the "Greatest Misses":)
I've used both environments for different tasks and have been happy with both. Essentially, they serve the same function which is to make developing far more enjoyable and error free.
Personally now I use VS.net more often. From where I work I have an MSDN account and get free downloads of all their developer tools to play around with. So I've spent a lot of time playing with things.
I like the integration of everything. From the SQL browser to Team Foundation Server, it's really streamlined to have access to have everything all at once. Honestly, I've been pretty impressed with most of.net and this is shocking since I rarely did MS development before VS 2005.
Obviously the biggest problem with it all is that it costs money. A lot of money if you want the IDE with all the architecture tools, design tools, testing tools, compilers, SQL server, TFS for source control and deployment, etc. You're locked into a MS environment essentially. And sometimes this isn't a problem at all. Maybe you're developing an ASP.net site or something. But you're spent a lot of money on tools and when multiplied by 50 developers, this can add up to a lot. However, you get MS support and for a lot of business companies with developers that aren't the greatest thing around, this is very valuable.
Eclipse has limitless plug-ins and can do everything VS.net can in terms of hooking into things. I don't find it as seamless and the whole package isn't there for everything from sharing documentation to deployment, etc. And there isn't support either. So a company is essentially on their own. But it's empowering to be able to ala cart the components you want.
I like both but have been really impressed with Visual Studio and all the related tools.
That may be true but it's not my problem. As a consumer I only want what's good and worth buying. If you can't write good enough songs to support yourself then you're not cut out to make music for a living I guess. Besides, who ever said musicians needed to be compensated into the millions?
Many of them probably got fat on a free lunch. But I know I'm sick and tired of buying free lunches.
And there are plenty of examples of good bands coming out with good albums over and over. Fugazi comes to mind instantly.
So, they're upset that consumer don't have to buy an entire album and mainly crumby songs to get at the 2 or 3 good ones that exist?
Of course it was lucrative, one or two songs would be played that people enjoyed and represented the album. But when the album was actually played it turned out those singles weren't representative of what the consumer thought they were buying. they were paying $15.00 to get a couple songs and a bunch of filler.
Make 12 songs worth buying and you'd be surprised, people might actually buy them. But don't complain when people stop buying the filler.
Another lesson learned in the aftermath of ripping people off? Or is it "the consumers are stealing" line as usual?
Turn on Javascript and quit being such a dork. It's 2007, Javascript is here to stay. Learn it. Use it. Love it.
As it turns out, you can actually create entire sites of Javascript and dynamically style them. Turn on Javascript or shut up. In fact, turn it on AND shut up.
Well, since there is still a chance they're wrong, faith has legs to stand on here. After all, that's the whole purpose of faith: to believe and accept something as fact against overwhelming odds.
Not that I believe it but the faith based folks certainly haven't been defeated here. Not like there's a contest or something.
They sell your browsing habits to people. You didn't know? Firefox records every website you go to. Every click you make. Every form you submit. And they sell this information to the highest bidder. Very often the government.
They can ask you whatever they want. The Miranda rights have to do with being arrested. At this point you aren't arrested so they can ask anything you want. You also don't have to tell them anything, because once again you're not arrested.
But the point is as soon as you tell an officer you have been drinking they will treat you like a DUI. You've given them probable cause at this point. What most people don't know is they ask everyone if they've been drinking at night. People who have been drinking assume the cop can smell it on them (which they probably can't, unless they're soooo hammered they really shouldn't be driving) and admit to it. Then the cop tries doing about 100 other things.
A cop can ask you whatever you want when you're not under arrest. They can use this as probable cause to dig deeper into you. I'd imagine it's admissible as evidence because they use road side tests as evidence and you aren't under arrest when you take those either. You also don't have to take them. But you are volunteering this information.
You've never admitted to anything at all. He very likely won't even ask you to get out if you say you haven't been drinking. They ask EVERYONE that question late at night and once you say yes you are a suspected DUI person to them.
Say as little as possible and only take the blood test they might make you take down the road.
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"When we start calling people you use their rights "asses" we are effectively saying they shouldn't have those rights."
That's not true at all. He was being an ass about it. You have a right to speech too. You can make an ass of yourself when exercising that right too.
There's a lot of things you can do (or not do for that matter). Just because you exercise a "right" to something doesn't mean you're a good person for it. In the context of this situation, I think everyone involved was being an ass.
Not even close. So far apart to escape any sort of relevancy.
you're comparing someone who was denied access to a public facility because of their skin color to a person whose a privileged member of society complaining about a loss prevention clerk wanting to check his CC bag to make sure he didn't steal anything. And then proceeding to call the cops and get himself arrested.
Regardless of whose right (it's not black and white) he's going to have to go to court and fight for himself now. With his track record of losing (0-2 now, his bag was searched and he was given a ticket for being a pest) it doesn't look good. And this isn't a major civil rights issue so don't expect the cavalry to come charging in for this guy. The ACLU likely won't touch this,. No lawyer is going to do this. He's an angry, bitter little guy who is going to pay a little fine for wasting a lot of peoples time. I hope he gets over it and sees it isn't a big issue at all.
Now you're comparing this guys crusade to Rosa Parks.
Get real man. This guys a twat stain and everyone know it.
Something about the civil rights movement being compared to a guy refusing to play nice with a cop he called and baiting a store employee seems a little wrong to me.
Because he went about it all wrong. He thought he was outwitting someone here and was taking it to the man. In the end he looks like an ass in the court of public opinion and was charged with a crime. He will likely go to court with this same chip on his shoulder and be found guilty as charged.
If he had a problem with this, there are far better avenues to take. He embarrassed his family, wasted the resources of a police officer and will have nothing to show for it.
They never asked to pat him down. The stores line is they would like to take a look inside their bag. They don't want to check your pockets, they don't want to search you, they only want to look inside a company bag. Please don't create a slippery slope here.
Maybe he's right, sure? But it doesn't take away from the fact he acted like an ass. He's a privileged member of society acting like a fucking baby. These are the things people are getting worked up and about? We should march on the capital over this? Get real.
Wow, that's quite the slippery slope you've got there.
We're not talking about full cavity searches. I don't think anyone would find that reasonable. But here's a news flash: Judges don't like social misfits. They don't take kind to non-conformists, especially when it's for something as silly as this.
He's probably right, no doubt. But it doesn't really matter when examining the practicality of the situation. The judge is going to see this as a dispute between 2 people, not an illegal detention or kidnapping or however else you want to frame it. And then they're going to see an officer, whose highly trusted by the courts (recall these guys murder people and get away with it), determined this guy was a problem and needed to be arrested.
So all of a sudden a court is going to side with him? Of course not. He will be viewed as a problem and dealt with accordingly, right or wrong.
This guy is really doing civil rights leaders of past and present proud here. I'll bet Rosa Parks is looking down, really admiring this person for their courage.
I believe they charged him with something. He'll be found guilty of that. They might lower the charges to something else.
But likely the judge will believe this guy is wasting peoples time and just get him out of there. No lawyer is going to take his case.
Ahhh, to be 17 again.
Go to court some day. Work in the legal system. You'll get a taste for how it actually works. I'd bet my living this guy gets nothing.
You are gullible. Don't waste your money fighting for guys like this, who won't win. He won't. Donate that money to the many other people that really need help fighting injustice.
You're donating money to a privileged man here who is upset because he has everything. It's a worthless cause. There's plenty of other things going on that you really can help out with. $50.00 to this guy is a waste.
I agree 100% here. He's got nothing. There isn't a lawyer around whose going to take this guys "case". No judge is going to sympathize with a guy who is trying hard to be a social misfit. Even if the guys technically right, the judge is going to give him a little bit of practical advice and tell him to work the store next time to help prevent theft, keeping the prices lower for everyone else. He might reduce his ticket some and change the charge, but likely not. Why?
Because this guy is going to go to court with a chip on his shoulder. The judge will admire to himself how cute he looks, then judge him guilty as charged.
I kind of feel bad for the Circuit City manager. He was put in a damned if you do, damned if you don't predicament. You can't expect this guy to know much about the law so he's acting on what he has probably been told by his superiors. He did the wrong thing without a doubt, but he likely didn't know this. He'll probably lose his job if anything goes down and it's probably not fair.
As for the cop, he's a fascist and although he won't get into any trouble (they murder people and keep their jobs), he's still scum of the Earth like most other cops. Never look to a cop for help is the basic moral here. They're morons usually. Smart people usually don't become cops.
As for the writer, he's an all around jerk. He doesn't get off here. This all could have been easily avoided if he would have just played by the rules and showed the guy his receipt and left. You're working with the store here. They have loss prevention and if everyone plays along then less people are stealing and then prices stay lower for people like us who buy things. In theory. So do you have a "right" to not show a receipt? Yes. Are you a jerk not to? Yes.
So we're left with 3 asses in this story. The manager is an ass for not knowing at all how to handle the situation and believing he somehow could physically stop someone from something. A scary precedent when you think about it as he either believes he can do this naturally or his company told him to. Eventually someone is going to get shot for doing the same thing.
The cop is an ass because he doesn't know how to do his job. He's a filthy pig on a power trip with a badge. He's representative of your typical cop. Cops are usually asses so there's no surprise here.
Then the shopper was an ass for not playing along in a social environment he choose to be a part of. He tempted the tiger and got bit. He's going to probably lose his case if he can even find a lawyer. A similar thing recently happened to a guy on Kuro5hin and he couldn't even get a lawyer to talk to him. The shopper was slapped on the wrist for not conforming here and although its wrong, he didn't do anything to help himself.
LOTS of testosterone here. All 3 of these guys need to chill out and put the macho crap aside. It looks like they all need hugs.
Officers don't prosecute. DA's prosecute. An officer only sites suspects with charges. They are the peons of the legal system. Little machines sent out to gather suspects for the state to try in court for suspected crimes.
I'm guessing eventually a gig would be reached and beat. SQL Express only allows a gig of RAM it appears. That is, it will only consume a gig of RAM at any one time. So a large DB is going to suffer if it can't use more. But you never have to worry about it using more than a gig.
I think your original advice of using it until you find it's unusable is probably best. I'll just do that and see how it goes. Getting to over a gig in data is going to take some time. Looking at a DB right now, it's 2 MB with a decent amount of test data. I have to figure at peak the application will use 500 MB. This should do, for now.
Thanks for the link. It basically comes down to how much RAM my DB will need, the size it will eventually get up to and how many CPU's I need.
Looks like express should be plenty powerful. Thanks.
Thanks for the information. I never had to search for free versions due to my MSDN account. I've had access to the "baller" versions for awhile.
I do use SQL Express at home when I'm messing around. I thought it was free with a Visual Studio install.
How well would that database hold up in a real world context? That is, how much abuse can it take? I want to deploy a little site that won't ever get a lot of traffic (few thousand a day at most) and don't want to pay for a SQL Server license. The isn't too database intensive, but it will make a query every time a user comes on. I'd rather use Express if I can (free). Is this practical?
True enough. I don't buy much commercial radio music myself. I happen to enjoy music from bands, musicians, etc that are of high quality. That is, they're generally doing something original or interesting and produce entire albums of good material, worth owning.
:)
But I'm not sure what you or I would call "good music", or music with a "true artistic purpose" is in the context of this discussion. I believe they were mainly referencing commercial radio and "hit artists". Top 40 if you will. So in that context I think these people are getting a rude awakening.
That is, you can't create full albums of garbage with a couple "good songs" and expect to keep selling them to people, in todays market place.
Its never been an issue for me as you've correctly pointed out that music with purpose is generally good all around. In fact, most musicians I listen to probably never put out a greatest hits album or anything like that. Well, Devo did. But they also came out with the "Greatest Misses"
I've used both environments for different tasks and have been happy with both. Essentially, they serve the same function which is to make developing far more enjoyable and error free.
.net and this is shocking since I rarely did MS development before VS 2005.
Personally now I use VS.net more often. From where I work I have an MSDN account and get free downloads of all their developer tools to play around with. So I've spent a lot of time playing with things.
I like the integration of everything. From the SQL browser to Team Foundation Server, it's really streamlined to have access to have everything all at once. Honestly, I've been pretty impressed with most of
Obviously the biggest problem with it all is that it costs money. A lot of money if you want the IDE with all the architecture tools, design tools, testing tools, compilers, SQL server, TFS for source control and deployment, etc. You're locked into a MS environment essentially. And sometimes this isn't a problem at all. Maybe you're developing an ASP.net site or something. But you're spent a lot of money on tools and when multiplied by 50 developers, this can add up to a lot. However, you get MS support and for a lot of business companies with developers that aren't the greatest thing around, this is very valuable.
Eclipse has limitless plug-ins and can do everything VS.net can in terms of hooking into things. I don't find it as seamless and the whole package isn't there for everything from sharing documentation to deployment, etc. And there isn't support either. So a company is essentially on their own. But it's empowering to be able to ala cart the components you want.
I like both but have been really impressed with Visual Studio and all the related tools.
That may be true but it's not my problem. As a consumer I only want what's good and worth buying. If you can't write good enough songs to support yourself then you're not cut out to make music for a living I guess. Besides, who ever said musicians needed to be compensated into the millions?
Many of them probably got fat on a free lunch. But I know I'm sick and tired of buying free lunches.
And there are plenty of examples of good bands coming out with good albums over and over. Fugazi comes to mind instantly.
So, they're upset that consumer don't have to buy an entire album and mainly crumby songs to get at the 2 or 3 good ones that exist?
Of course it was lucrative, one or two songs would be played that people enjoyed and represented the album. But when the album was actually played it turned out those singles weren't representative of what the consumer thought they were buying. they were paying $15.00 to get a couple songs and a bunch of filler.
Make 12 songs worth buying and you'd be surprised, people might actually buy them. But don't complain when people stop buying the filler.
Another lesson learned in the aftermath of ripping people off? Or is it "the consumers are stealing" line as usual?
Turn on Javascript and quit being such a dork. It's 2007, Javascript is here to stay. Learn it. Use it. Love it.
As it turns out, you can actually create entire sites of Javascript and dynamically style them. Turn on Javascript or shut up. In fact, turn it on AND shut up.
Well, since there is still a chance they're wrong, faith has legs to stand on here. After all, that's the whole purpose of faith: to believe and accept something as fact against overwhelming odds.
Not that I believe it but the faith based folks certainly haven't been defeated here. Not like there's a contest or something.
You hit control-t of course. That should be pretty intuitive.
But Finland also has the worlds highest rate of suicide. A mere coincidence? I think not.
They sell your browsing habits to people. You didn't know? Firefox records every website you go to. Every click you make. Every form you submit. And they sell this information to the highest bidder. Very often the government.
They can ask you whatever they want. The Miranda rights have to do with being arrested. At this point you aren't arrested so they can ask anything you want. You also don't have to tell them anything, because once again you're not arrested.
But the point is as soon as you tell an officer you have been drinking they will treat you like a DUI. You've given them probable cause at this point. What most people don't know is they ask everyone if they've been drinking at night. People who have been drinking assume the cop can smell it on them (which they probably can't, unless they're soooo hammered they really shouldn't be driving) and admit to it. Then the cop tries doing about 100 other things.
A cop can ask you whatever you want when you're not under arrest. They can use this as probable cause to dig deeper into you. I'd imagine it's admissible as evidence because they use road side tests as evidence and you aren't under arrest when you take those either. You also don't have to take them. But you are volunteering this information.
I should also say, don't do any test on the road.
You've never admitted to anything at all. He very likely won't even ask you to get out if you say you haven't been drinking. They ask EVERYONE that question late at night and once you say yes you are a suspected DUI person to them.
Say as little as possible and only take the blood test they might make you take down the road.