I bought a new car in 1999. It was a 4 door, blue toyota with a 4 cylinder engine, automatic transmission. I spent $20000 on it.
I use this car for driving back and forth to work, maybe to go to the store, short trips. Simple things like that.
Now your telling me I have to spend 20 dollars to get my oil changed, $1000 for a new transmission, and 100 for new light bulbs?
The point is not that Jane HAS to get a new computer, but that Jane needs to step up and take responsibility for doing regular maintenance on her computer. A Computer is NOT a stove. It is a complex machine.
How is XP home edition a joke? It's the exact same OS as XP pro except that it doesn't include a lot of features that are only useful in a corp setting.
Considering that most people who want a stick, don't know how to drive a manual properly to get better perfomance then todays automatics, I guess that analogy is good.
Also not everyone gets a manual because they like to drive, their just cheap.
Hmm, starting out your debate by instantly trying to imply the stupidity of your opponent is obviously a result of your finely tuned superior intellect. One would wonder if your improper use of the capitalization and punctuation were also a result of that razor sharp mind?
My point is, who defines if something has zero marginal cost? Let us take a digital file, such as an mp3. What you are saying, is that after it is developed, it has zero marginal cost to redistribute it over the net. That may be well and fine, but does that mean the person who buys the first copy should pay 50,000, and everyone else should then be able to copy it for free? The cost of the item is distributed over a wide variety of individuals, regardless of the transport method.
Furthermore, the OP said that "items of zero marginal cost should be distributed for free" He was not talking about the transport mechanism being without cost, he was talking about the item, in our example the mp3. Are you telling me that you believe it doesn't cost anything to create a file? Even OSS software has a cost, such as man hours to produce, etc. The fact that the creator chooses to donate that time freely does not mean it is without cost.
So my question again is, who decides the cost? Should the creator be forced to create something and distribute it for free? The OP says that "incentives to produce can and should be created in other ways," yet he failed to elaborate on any.
Even as a christian, I struggle with this as well. It does sound kind of messed up, but the point is every choice has consequences. Just because you don't like one of the consequences doesn't mean you don't have a choice.
I like to drive fast. I can choose to do so, but face a possible ticket. Does that consequnece somehow take away my ability to make that choice?
You'd think that people who believe in Christian God would find the choice easy, yet as we've seen, even faced with the eternal damnation, as set forth by their own beliefs, people still falter. It, along with pride, are one of the weakness's of being human.
Now I'm not going to try and convert you, as you seem quite capable of rationalizing and deciding for your self. I can't provide the right or wrong answer, but for Christians, your attitude fits squarely in our belief system. Pride is one of the tools the Devil uses to fool us into making the wrong choice.
"GOD" could easily make things his way, but what would be the point? If you study the bible you'll see God gave us something that can throw a wrench in any desires. It's called Choice. He didn't want us to be robots, doing his every bidding. He wanted us to choose. Of course, the wrong choice has consequences.
I'll ask it again; How is it that if a Christian speaks out against what they see as sin, they are accused of intolerance and bigotry, when in reality those who attack them are showing intolerance and bigotry to the Christians beliefs?
Do we not have just as much a right to our beliefs as anybody else? If part of our beliefs is that we are to spread the message of the gospel, then you trying to shout me down, mod me down, put me down, does in fact show intolerance of my beliefs?
By using his name to lure in people, they are trading on his name and reputation. The fact that they then have a disclaimer is no way relevant as, as they have already committed the violation of the trademark.
Well I knew spouting unpopular beliefs would get censored by the/. crowd, but I'll bite.
You do know the eating of shell fish was an Old Testament law? You do know that many of the old jewish customs laid out in the Old testament were Dietary and Sanitary laws?
For more info:
The point of Jesus's resurection was to free us from the laws and customs set forth in the Old testament. Does that mean we throw out all? No, But the new testament does free us Gentiles from the sanitary and dietary laws, but not the moral laws. Homesexuality is condemned throughout the bible, not just the OT, as a moral law.
I know I'm sticking my neck out for a flame here, but the Bible is quite clear about how God feels about homesexuality.
Now you can be Gay, but choose to abstain from that lifestyle and be a Christian, but if you are practicing gay sex, or even straight, practicing sex out of marriage, you are sinning.
Just because somebody calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they are. I'm not talking about just gay & Lesbians either, but anyone who profess's the Bible with their lips, and sins with their hearts. Does that mean there is no hope for you? No, just that, if you really want to call yourself a Christian, you need to renounce your ways.
Now if you don't believe in God, or Jesus Christ, don't start flaming me about how stupid the religion is, or how science is always right, I don't care. I'm speaking to those who claim christianity, yet don't practice it in their lives.
How is it that if a Christian speaks out against what they see as sin, they are accused of intolerance and bigotry, when in reality those who attack them are showing intolerance and bigotry to the Christians beliefs?
In regards to why the gay and lesbian can't exercise their "free speech rights" against Jerry Falwell, they can. They just can do it by trying to lure people into their site by taking advantage of His name and reputation. Think of it like a business, I spend years building my autoshop up until its a household name, all of sudden the a competitor starts up across the street and names his business 1 letter diferent then mine. I get most my business from referalls, so all my new customers get confused and don't know which autoshop to go to.
In this case, Falwell.com does operate in the same realm of 'business" It's purpose is to counter Jerry Falwell,and can be very misleading. Should I be able to open a new search engine and call it gogle.com?
Yeah except for the processor differnce, (a Celeron is not the same as a G4) RAM (2100 vs 2700) Video (Shared vs Dedicated) No firewire.
Only the HP you have listed is really comparable and the true out of pocket cost is $579. (Good luck at actually getting that rebate fulfilled) Now Add in a 17 inch Flat Screen CRT, either using your price of 120 for an Offbrand KDS, or the price of a Comparable HP from the same site for 180, and your looking at between $700-780.
I never said you could get an Emac for $699, you did. In fact in my 1st post I very clearly put the price at $799. I never said you couldn't find a cheaper pc, I just said that apple is very price competive in these 2 areas. Hell I would dare say all areas, if you were actually willing to compare specs, and not just throw any old trash up as your evidence.
Entry level does not mean cheapest. In fact I would argue that your sub 300 pc's are not good for entry level, but rather 2nd or 3rd machines for experienced users, because more then likely they use no standard hardware, funky drivers, crappy restore routines etc. They might be fine for you and me who knows how to twist their arms to make them work, but for grandma.
Now that we've put the desktops to rest do you want to compare notebooks? I will say it very clearly for you, both the Emacs and the ibook are matched very competively for their specs.
Heres a comparison on 12 inch portables from compusa, Look who has some of the most inexpensive notebooks in that category:
Link please, because the cheapest new one, in stock, I see there is $449. Add in a CRT that's comparable to the one on the emac and your still talking between 600 -700. A 100 price range is not a deal killer, even for a "poor student." Also remember that a 1.25 GHZ G4 is comparable to a 2 ghz P4 or Athlon 2700, none of these duron crap.
I said it's priced competively, now quit showing me the cheapest crap out there and show me one with the comparable specs. Make sure it has the same amount of PC 2700 RAM, hdd, firewire, PC, Speakers, Ehternet, Modem 2700, comparable bundled software (no OS only deal)
Also let me know if theirs aby rebate forms, as the $450 emachine I see does have one. Good luck getting that back.
No your missing my point, Most new computer users are not going to search out the best deal on some website like that, their going to go down to their local retailer. Compared to what the other mftrs are selling on the shelf, the emac is very comparable.
Sure you can find a cheaper pc if you look hard enough, but that's not the entry level pc that Apple is competing against. They are going against entry level machines from emachines, dell, hp, compaq etc, not some off brand.
Not to mention most college students I know have more disposal cash, and are more then willing to hit the parents up for cash for a computer, or the parents are going to buy it for them
We're talking entry level models, not no name piece of refurbished crap selling two year old tech.
Compare the specs of the emac and then that POS and it's a no brainer. That was such a ridiculous example it's funny. Most students I know would rather spend a little extra to get something that's not going to die on them 3 weeks after they bought it, in the middle of writing a paper.
The best Interoperability of any system, before I switched to a Apple notebook fulltime, I had to have a pc for linux/windows apps, and another mac for testing. With OS X I can run linux and apple apps natively, and can get decent emulation out of VPC for Windows. If my windows emulation state goes south (as Windows sometime does) I copy over my vpc backup file from another folder.
It seems like every time I update my kernel on my Linux laptop something stops working and I spend the next 8 hours fixing, or I have to make a compromise on having some of the hardware or software working. Sure it's not necessarily "Linux's" fault when my hardware mftr doesn't release OSS drivers, or my vmware won't work with kernel X, but when I working, I don't care who's fault it is, I just want it to work. I'm not a developer, why should I have to be to get a decent OS. With my mac, it just works, as corny as that sounds, and I can focus on what I get paid to do.
The OS works perfectly with hardware, no dinking around trying to get my wireless working. I can do linux just fine, but sometime I need to do work, not edit a configuration files to get my video card to to dual monitors. No worries about spyware and the majority of virus's. And the plus side, if I feel like dinking around the *nix side, I still can.
Not to mention I still get the a nice user interface, that for me, is years ahead of either Linux, or windows.
Not to sound like an Apple Fanboi, but recently, both the emac and the ibook are very competitively priced. $799 for a complete system, including monitor, is not bad.
$1029 for what amounts to an nice portable system is very good.
Judging from the numerous articles on slashdot the paat 2 days and the geek lynching that Penguin received at the hands of/.r's, I'd say, Yes.
Re:Obligatory Old European Response, WTF?
on
Ready, Aim, HACK!
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· Score: 1
Name one other easily portable form factor you could use to point a "stick" shaped object at a phone far away, while holding it steady and being able to follow the users movement with your eyes while tracking them with the end of "said" stick. It's pretty obvious why they chose a rifle form. It's definitely the most ergonomic option.
I know your trying to be funny, but have you ever seen how much the military spends in recruiting and training, not to mention equipping a a single grunt?
Why is everyone recommending some uber fast expensive hardware raid? This is for backup, not file serving. It would be cheaper to spend the money on quality drives and use a software raid. Run some nightly backup scripts and you all set.
Slashdot Mirror
Now your telling me I have to spend 20 dollars to get my oil changed, $1000 for a new transmission, and 100 for new light bulbs?
The point is not that Jane HAS to get a new computer, but that Jane needs to step up and take responsibility for doing regular maintenance on her computer. A Computer is NOT a stove. It is a complex machine.
Here's a list :
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_hom e_pro.asp/
Looking at that list, most home users would never have any need for any of this stuff.
Perhaps you meant to say Windows ME?
Also not everyone gets a manual because they like to drive, their just cheap.
My point is, who defines if something has zero marginal cost? Let us take a digital file, such as an mp3. What you are saying, is that after it is developed, it has zero marginal cost to redistribute it over the net. That may be well and fine, but does that mean the person who buys the first copy should pay 50,000, and everyone else should then be able to copy it for free? The cost of the item is distributed over a wide variety of individuals, regardless of the transport method.
Furthermore, the OP said that "items of zero marginal cost should be distributed for free" He was not talking about the transport mechanism being without cost, he was talking about the item, in our example the mp3. Are you telling me that you believe it doesn't cost anything to create a file? Even OSS software has a cost, such as man hours to produce, etc. The fact that the creator chooses to donate that time freely does not mean it is without cost.
So my question again is, who decides the cost? Should the creator be forced to create something and distribute it for free? The OP says that "incentives to produce can and should be created in other ways," yet he failed to elaborate on any.
So who defines zero marginal cost? Everything has a cost.
I like to drive fast. I can choose to do so, but face a possible ticket. Does that consequnece somehow take away my ability to make that choice?
You'd think that people who believe in Christian God would find the choice easy, yet as we've seen, even faced with the eternal damnation, as set forth by their own beliefs, people still falter. It, along with pride, are one of the weakness's of being human.
Now I'm not going to try and convert you, as you seem quite capable of rationalizing and deciding for your self. I can't provide the right or wrong answer, but for Christians, your attitude fits squarely in our belief system. Pride is one of the tools the Devil uses to fool us into making the wrong choice.
"GOD" could easily make things his way, but what would be the point? If you study the bible you'll see God gave us something that can throw a wrench in any desires. It's called Choice. He didn't want us to be robots, doing his every bidding. He wanted us to choose. Of course, the wrong choice has consequences.
Do we not have just as much a right to our beliefs as anybody else? If part of our beliefs is that we are to spread the message of the gospel, then you trying to shout me down, mod me down, put me down, does in fact show intolerance of my beliefs?
Something about a pot and kettle come to mind.
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of the bible, but picks and chooses however it may fit his argument.
By using his name to lure in people, they are trading on his name and reputation. The fact that they then have a disclaimer is no way relevant as, as they have already committed the violation of the trademark.
You do know the eating of shell fish was an Old Testament law? You do know that many of the old jewish customs laid out in the Old testament were Dietary and Sanitary laws?
For more info:
The point of Jesus's resurection was to free us from the laws and customs set forth in the Old testament. Does that mean we throw out all? No, But the new testament does free us Gentiles from the sanitary and dietary laws, but not the moral laws. Homesexuality is condemned throughout the bible, not just the OT, as a moral law.
In this case, Falwell.com does operate in the same realm of 'business" It's purpose is to counter Jerry Falwell ,and can be very misleading. Should I be able to open a new search engine and call it gogle.com?
Only the HP you have listed is really comparable and the true out of pocket cost is $579. (Good luck at actually getting that rebate fulfilled) Now Add in a 17 inch Flat Screen CRT, either using your price of 120 for an Offbrand KDS, or the price of a Comparable HP from the same site for 180, and your looking at between $700-780.
I never said you could get an Emac for $699, you did. In fact in my 1st post I very clearly put the price at $799. I never said you couldn't find a cheaper pc, I just said that apple is very price competive in these 2 areas. Hell I would dare say all areas, if you were actually willing to compare specs, and not just throw any old trash up as your evidence.
Entry level does not mean cheapest. In fact I would argue that your sub 300 pc's are not good for entry level, but rather 2nd or 3rd machines for experienced users, because more then likely they use no standard hardware, funky drivers, crappy restore routines etc. They might be fine for you and me who knows how to twist their arms to make them work, but for grandma.
Now that we've put the desktops to rest do you want to compare notebooks? I will say it very clearly for you, both the Emacs and the ibook are matched very competively for their specs. Heres a comparison on 12 inch portables from compusa, Look who has some of the most inexpensive notebooks in that category:
http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=200 006+502423+4294958206&Ne=301257&CusaNe=200004/
In fact the only PC cheaper than Apple in that list is an off brand.
Link please, because the cheapest new one, in stock, I see there is $449. Add in a CRT that's comparable to the one on the emac and your still talking between 600 -700. A 100 price range is not a deal killer, even for a "poor student." Also remember that a 1.25 GHZ G4 is comparable to a 2 ghz P4 or Athlon 2700, none of these duron crap. I said it's priced competively, now quit showing me the cheapest crap out there and show me one with the comparable specs. Make sure it has the same amount of PC 2700 RAM, hdd, firewire, PC, Speakers, Ehternet, Modem 2700, comparable bundled software (no OS only deal) Also let me know if theirs aby rebate forms, as the $450 emachine I see does have one. Good luck getting that back.
No your missing my point, Most new computer users are not going to search out the best deal on some website like that, their going to go down to their local retailer. Compared to what the other mftrs are selling on the shelf, the emac is very comparable. Sure you can find a cheaper pc if you look hard enough, but that's not the entry level pc that Apple is competing against. They are going against entry level machines from emachines, dell, hp, compaq etc, not some off brand. Not to mention most college students I know have more disposal cash, and are more then willing to hit the parents up for cash for a computer, or the parents are going to buy it for them
Compare the specs of the emac and then that POS and it's a no brainer. That was such a ridiculous example it's funny. Most students I know would rather spend a little extra to get something that's not going to die on them 3 weeks after they bought it, in the middle of writing a paper.
Whats his contact info? I needs me some of dat.
Because we have a fuckton more bombs then you, and therefore, we can. :)
The best Interoperability of any system, before I switched to a Apple notebook fulltime, I had to have a pc for linux/windows apps, and another mac for testing. With OS X I can run linux and apple apps natively, and can get decent emulation out of VPC for Windows. If my windows emulation state goes south (as Windows sometime does) I copy over my vpc backup file from another folder.
It seems like every time I update my kernel on my Linux laptop something stops working and I spend the next 8 hours fixing, or I have to make a compromise on having some of the hardware or software working. Sure it's not necessarily "Linux's" fault when my hardware mftr doesn't release OSS drivers, or my vmware won't work with kernel X, but when I working, I don't care who's fault it is, I just want it to work. I'm not a developer, why should I have to be to get a decent OS. With my mac, it just works, as corny as that sounds, and I can focus on what I get paid to do.
The OS works perfectly with hardware, no dinking around trying to get my wireless working. I can do linux just fine, but sometime I need to do work, not edit a configuration files to get my video card to to dual monitors. No worries about spyware and the majority of virus's. And the plus side, if I feel like dinking around the *nix side, I still can.
Not to mention I still get the a nice user interface, that for me, is years ahead of either Linux, or windows.
I don't play games, I have an Xbox for that.
Not to sound like an Apple Fanboi, but recently, both the emac and the ibook are very competitively priced. $799 for a complete system, including monitor, is not bad.
$1029 for what amounts to an nice portable system is very good.
Judging from the numerous articles on slashdot the paat 2 days and the geek lynching that Penguin received at the hands of /.r's, I'd say, Yes.
I know your trying to be funny, but have you ever seen how much the military spends in recruiting and training, not to mention equipping a a single grunt?
Unless of course, it's your central computers phone that's on fire.
Why is everyone recommending some uber fast expensive hardware raid? This is for backup, not file serving. It would be cheaper to spend the money on quality drives and use a software raid. Run some nightly backup scripts and you all set.