Thanks for the answer. I spent some more time reading on answers.microsoft.com, and only found the confirmation in different places that synchronization of contacts can't be disabled. Using any on line service is out of question for the same reason I can't use Windows Live. It's not that I'd be specifically concerned because of MS (my mistrust towards Google is much stronger), it just is illegal unless I remove the "concerned" contacts first. A pop3 account does not help for this purpose, I had it configured for my phone before I registered a WL account, and still contacts are synchronized with WL without any option to disable this. But for WL account I entered something like username@live.com, not username@po3provider.com, maybe that makes a diference...
If you have time one of these days, could you log into your Windows live account and check if your phone contacts appear there?
Sorry for the lmgtfy jab, no offence meant. It's already a sort of habit when I send someone a google link. If there is a solution to this problem, I would be seriously interested. I would love to recommend WP to friends and maybe my wife. The simplicity of the UI is great, and it is really efficient to use. I had my first WP device half a year ago, and since then I'm looking for a solution for my pivacy cincerns, also I have difficulties finding all resources I read in that time. From all I read,
* It is possible to synch to other accounts in addition to WL * It is possible to switch off synchronization for contents other than contacts for the WL account, but * It is *not* possible at all to switch off contact sync for the primary WL account (the one that is used for the market place).
I read as a workaround somewhere that I can set the sync interval to "manual". But somehow my contacts still showed up in my WL account, I assume this was due to a firmware update which might have triggered a sync.
The magnitude of the problem is *huge* for me: If I have friends who ask me to treat their contact information confidential, it is not only bad style to upload them to an online service, but indeed illegal in my country, as a lawyer specialized on privacy laws confirmed in a private discussion.
So basically I have the choice to manage these contacts with pen and paper instead of using the phonebook, or I can't use the market place. Obviously it is no solution to synch to any other online account instead.
So if there really is a solution to this problem, it would be highly valuable to me.
I posted this before, but the fight against this conspiracy is not over yet! Any nerd claiming to wear a tinfoil head is either a wannabe or part of the tinfoil conspiracy!!11! It is so obvious that tinfoil hats might cover you from alleged hostile brain control waves from sattelites thousands of kilometeres awas, but otoh forms a nearly parabolic antenna to the whole communication wires and infrastructure below pedestrian lanes just a couple of meters away. And coincidentally only relevant people will be affected, since only they are likely to wear - wait a minute, there is someone knocking at my door, I will write more. later.
Ok, so how do I switch of contact sync with Windows Live on my WP device? Windows Live account is mandatory if you want to use any Apps; if you don't, you don't need a Smartphone at all.
For now, I will stick to Symbian for this reason...
How is copying my purchased music into a cloud covered by copyright? Basically, when I buy an mp3, I actually only buy a license to use the mp3. So, if I (A) buy an mp3 from B (e.g. Sony Records), and I copy it to a cloud held by C (e.g. Google), I'm creating a copy on someone else storage space. Technically this should be a copyright violation.
If it is not, I would like to start a new company, offering free cloud service. Please copy all your movies and mp3 to my hard disk:-). Oh, and my friends will also start in this business. Of course we are not pirating anything, just providing hosting services to each other and checking the content for legal issues.
Or maybe we can establish a community cloud. Lets call it.... Napster? I think there is already a good software available, we don't even need to modify it, just re-label it:-)
If people use the web app, they are likely to be logged in during their whole browser session, giving more valuable data to google via google apis, google analytics etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Google provides a really great web application which will run very well on Blackberry as well. Googles core business is advertisement and data collection; I don't think it bothers them much if people are using Blackberry or Android, as long as Google gets the data and provides the ads.
My reasoning is the different way around: No out-of-browser mail client, no use for that mail provider; if I were you, I would look for a new mail address instead. Since Google currently still supports IMAP, you can still use it with BB and already introduce a new address to all relevant contacts...
I think for Google this makes a lot of sense. Users of the GMail application are not necessarily logged in with their browser session when browsing the Internet. When they can be convinced to use the web application, this might change, greatly increasing the value of all data collected with google analytics, google apis and whatnot.
From a consumer point of view this is a very good reason to dump my GMail account as soon as possible, before they close the imap access one day or make it in any other way less convenient.
Thanks for pointing out:-) English is not my mother tongue, so some misspellings are bound to happen, but this is my signature for around 6 years(?). I'm surprised no one pointed it out earlier.
Corrupt is such a strong word for it... In Germany the capital owners, high level bankers, executives etc. and are called the "Leistungsträger" (as far as I know, there is no accurate translation. But the term implies that these people are the pillars of society, doing the main work). So of course it is vital to favour them with any decisions rather than the rednecks working 50h a week to somehow survive. Especially since most politicians have strong ties to the industry to get a comfortable position after they retreat from politics...
As I said, my post was intentionally cynical and targeted at the capitalistic system as it is. It was not meant to describe society as I think it should be...
The parable assumes that the amount of money spent does not change either way, only what it's spent for. I don't think this is valid. Of course you would be correct in a fair and cooperative environment. But in capitalism, each change of the situation means that some will find a way to exploit it on the back of the others. Every change means that large amounts of money will be transferred, and usually the main players will get their share.
So, this means: In a couple of years, power plants for renewable energy will be a Business Hit. Existing property (especially houses etc.) will be destroyed, opening a new market opportunity. Demands for insurances etc. will grow. Additional goods will be invented to help people live conveniently in the changing environment. IT industries will benefit because virtual live becomes more important, since travelling will become unaffordable an unattractive due to drastic weather an degenerated environments.
Bottomline: The economy will benefit tremendously in 1st world countries.
And just to make this clear: Yes, this is cynic, and it's not what I feel. But it explains very well, why companies an governments don't care to much
Any nerd claiming to wear a tinfoil head is either a wannabe or part of the tinfoil conspiracy! It is so obvious that tinfoil hats might cover you from alleged hostile brain control waves from sattelites thousands of kilometeres awas, but otoh forms a nearly parabolic antenna to the whole communication wires and infrastructure below pedestrian lanes just a couple of meters away. And coincidentally only relevant people will be affected, since only they are likely to wear - wait a minute, there is someone knocking at my door, I will write more. later.
This is one of the strengths of perl. It is the only scripting language with in-source encryption, so basically you can comply to Open Source rules and still keep the functionalities and algorithms of the software confidential.
The problem remains that they won't have access to latest source code, since the source is apparently opened after the lead devices are already on the market. Nokia would not be able to sell phones with latest version of Android with this approach.
Things will become interesting with the suite against Motorola, especially if Google is successful in buying them. If Google owns Motorola and Motorola actually pays licenses to Microsoft for using Android, it will be very entertaining. If Microsoft drops the suite (presumingly because the NDA and sweet deal you proposed was not possible with a company owned by Google) it might also be quite revealing.
(I did not find a link about the current state of that case. If it was already dropped please anyone post a link. But in this case it might still be possible for Google to publish more detailed information on the case if they are able to buy Motorola.)
Maybe more than in the past but I doubt more than Android
Agreed. Also I think there might be further changes, since WP7 to WP7.5 was a major step in functionality.
Had the Meego phone come to the US on my carrier
Unfortunately Nokia doesn't have enough market share in US to convince carriers of a new system easily...
I would have gotten it next month when my contract is up
It is a very cool device from a geek point of view, and is has some extremely cool features in the UI for normal end users. But when I had access to a proto last year, it was simply not ready, the ecosystem is still not available. And even now I think there is room for improvement/maturation in the software.
Example, did you know that Google allows hardware manufacturer or carrier to remove all Google services and apps from Android?
Example, did you know that Google does not pay anyone using Android or choosing Google services and apps in Android? Google does pay for device manufacturer and carrier part of the feed what it gains when user clicks an Ad when doing a search trough Google search widget when it is located to Android launch screen. But so does Google pay to Mozilla and every other who set Google search to search panel. It is same payment to every one.
You always write "Example", yet you don't provide any. I provided the example how Google hinders manufacturers to install competing services already in my thread start. (Not as a link, but I put Motorola, Google and Skyhook in context. Searching on Google, the link I posted here is the third in the list.) This contradicts quite obviously what you wrote about open development.
BTW, regarding your MS rant: I'm not saying I blame Google for their actions, so there is no point in showing that MS is acting equally... hmmm.... revenue driven. The difference is that MS does not advertise their system as open and does not claim to have the leading motto "don't be evil".
DISCLAIMER: I work for Nokia, but here I state my personal opinion only. Statements are only made based on public available information.
Nokia was considering Android and dumped it, because it was too painful.
I think you're missing something about Microsoft and their bank balance - this article says it best:
Wall Street had favored the popular Android system as the quick and more crowd-pleasing option. Instead, Nokia's alignment with Microsoft ties it to a partner that has deep pockets but very limited success with its Windows phones.
yes, that was their view; wall street analysts can't have deep insight in every company they write about, and here they are also missing some obvious points. As replied to the other post:
Nokia owns Navteq (they sell map data). With focus on Android this asset would be wasted. They provide an offline navigation software. Incidentally I'm working on the location where this software is implemented. This would have been wasted as well. Nokia has a business unit around location based services. This is direct competition to Google and would have been wasted. OTOH, Bing maps is already using Navteq data for some time, MS and Nokia are both cooperating with Yahoo for quite some time, etc. All this is public available information, and I think it is enough reason to turn down Android.
[Nokia CEO Stephen] Elop said one of the key topics in the talks on doing a deal with Microsoft was convincing Nokia that it could reach "a very low price point."
Surely this is an important factor. Only it's not about the 1 billion, but about the hardware requirements / the costs to produce a device. The average prices for smartphones are declining, and when MS sticks to strong hardware requirements it is not possible to compete in these price segment. With WP "Tango" it will be possible to serve this market as well, and I guess that Nokia got a got deal for the license per device.
Nokia owns Navteq (they sell map data). With focus on Android this asset would be wasted. They provide an offline navigation software. Incidentally I'm working on the location where this software is implemented. This would have been wasted as well. Nokia has a business unit around location based services. This is direct competition to Google and would have been wasted. OTOH, Bing maps is already using Navteq data for some time, MS and Nokia are both cooperating with Yahoo for quite some time, etc. All this is public available information, and I think it is enough reason to turn down Android. So I think it was rather a decision of building the own ecosystem for MeeGo faster or going for WP.
Of course the 1Billion did not hurt either, and I can imagine that Elop did have some good contacts to MS which helped building up the trust for negotiations. But I don't think this was the decisive issue.
Google wants to make money with their services. Therefore they need to make sure that manufacturers do not integrate competing services. To achieve this they need to make it a condition for using Android. But this is only possible as long as Android is not open source. So in return for not integrating competing services, Google offers the source code (half) a year earlier to complying manufacturers, making sure that unfriendly devices will always be at least a year behind.
DISCLAIMER: I work for Nokia, so I'm biased. But here I state my personal opinion only. Statements are only made based on public available information.
Slashdot Mirror
Thanks for the answer. I spent some more time reading on answers.microsoft.com, and only found the confirmation in different places that synchronization of contacts can't be disabled. Using any on line service is out of question for the same reason I can't use Windows Live. It's not that I'd be specifically concerned because of MS (my mistrust towards Google is much stronger), it just is illegal unless I remove the "concerned" contacts first.
A pop3 account does not help for this purpose, I had it configured for my phone before I registered a WL account, and still contacts are synchronized with WL without any option to disable this. But for WL account I entered something like username@live.com, not username@po3provider.com, maybe that makes a diference...
If you have time one of these days, could you log into your Windows live account and check if your phone contacts appear there?
Sorry for the lmgtfy jab, no offence meant. It's already a sort of habit when I send someone a google link.
If there is a solution to this problem, I would be seriously interested. I would love to recommend WP to friends and maybe my wife. The simplicity of the UI is great, and it is really efficient to use. I had my first WP device half a year ago, and since then I'm looking for a solution for my pivacy cincerns, also I have difficulties finding all resources I read in that time. From all I read,
* It is possible to synch to other accounts in addition to WL
* It is possible to switch off synchronization for contents other than contacts for the WL account, but
* It is *not* possible at all to switch off contact sync for the primary WL account (the one that is used for the market place).
I read as a workaround somewhere that I can set the sync interval to "manual". But somehow my contacts still showed up in my WL account, I assume this was due to a firmware update which might have triggered a sync.
The magnitude of the problem is *huge* for me: If I have friends who ask me to treat their contact information confidential, it is not only bad style to upload them to an online service, but indeed illegal in my country, as a lawyer specialized on privacy laws confirmed in a private discussion.
So basically I have the choice to manage these contacts with pen and paper instead of using the phonebook, or I can't use the market place. Obviously it is no solution to synch to any other online account instead.
So if there really is a solution to this problem, it would be highly valuable to me.
Ok, these links should work:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows-live-sync-with-windows-7-mobile-phone+site:Microsoft.com
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=disable-synchronizing-contacts-windows-live+site:Microsoft.com
(first link in search results)
Unfortunately even MS staff does not link to fm but just answers in prods, so still no knowledge base article.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/privacy.aspx#windowsliveid
I posted this before, but the fight against this conspiracy is not over yet!
Any nerd claiming to wear a tinfoil head is either a wannabe or part of the tinfoil conspiracy!!11! It is so obvious that tinfoil hats might cover you from alleged hostile brain control waves from sattelites thousands of kilometeres awas, but otoh forms a nearly parabolic antenna to the whole communication wires and infrastructure below pedestrian lanes just a couple of meters away. And coincidentally only relevant people will be affected, since only they are likely to wear - wait a minute, there is someone knocking at my door, I will write more. later.
You should tell MS that it is now possible to disable synch for primary account, they don't know about this feature:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp7-sync/disable-synchronizing-contacts-windows-live
Ok, so how do I switch of contact sync with Windows Live on my WP device? Windows Live account is mandatory if you want to use any Apps; if you don't, you don't need a Smartphone at all.
For now, I will stick to Symbian for this reason...
How is copying my purchased music into a cloud covered by copyright? Basically, when I buy an mp3, I actually only buy a license to use the mp3. So, if I (A) buy an mp3 from B (e.g. Sony Records), and I copy it to a cloud held by C (e.g. Google), I'm creating a copy on someone else storage space. Technically this should be a copyright violation.
If it is not, I would like to start a new company, offering free cloud service. Please copy all your movies and mp3 to my hard disk :-). Oh, and my friends will also start in this business. Of course we are not pirating anything, just providing hosting services to each other and checking the content for legal issues.
Or maybe we can establish a community cloud. Lets call it.... Napster? I think there is already a good software available, we don't even need to modify it, just re-label it :-)
If people use the web app, they are likely to be logged in during their whole browser session, giving more valuable data to google via google apis, google analytics etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Google provides a really great web application which will run very well on Blackberry as well. Googles core business is advertisement and data collection; I don't think it bothers them much if people are using Blackberry or Android, as long as Google gets the data and provides the ads.
My reasoning is the different way around: No out-of-browser mail client, no use for that mail provider; if I were you, I would look for a new mail address instead. Since Google currently still supports IMAP, you can still use it with BB and already introduce a new address to all relevant contacts...
I think for Google this makes a lot of sense. Users of the GMail application are not necessarily logged in with their browser session when browsing the Internet. When they can be convinced to use the web application, this might change, greatly increasing the value of all data collected with google analytics, google apis and whatnot.
From a consumer point of view this is a very good reason to dump my GMail account as soon as possible, before they close the imap access one day or make it in any other way less convenient.
Thanks for pointing out :-) English is not my mother tongue, so some misspellings are bound to happen, but this is my signature for around 6 years(?). I'm surprised no one pointed it out earlier.
Corrupt is such a strong word for it... In Germany the capital owners, high level bankers, executives etc. and are called the "Leistungsträger" (as far as I know, there is no accurate translation. But the term implies that these people are the pillars of society, doing the main work). So of course it is vital to favour them with any decisions rather than the rednecks working 50h a week to somehow survive. Especially since most politicians have strong ties to the industry to get a comfortable position after they retreat from politics...
As I said, my post was intentionally cynical and targeted at the capitalistic system as it is. It was not meant to describe society as I think it should be...
The parable assumes that the amount of money spent does not change either way, only what it's spent for. I don't think this is valid. Of course you would be correct in a fair and cooperative environment. But in capitalism, each change of the situation means that some will find a way to exploit it on the back of the others. Every change means that large amounts of money will be transferred, and usually the main players will get their share.
So, this means: In a couple of years, power plants for renewable energy will be a Business Hit.
Existing property (especially houses etc.) will be destroyed, opening a new market opportunity.
Demands for insurances etc. will grow.
Additional goods will be invented to help people live conveniently in the changing environment.
IT industries will benefit because virtual live becomes more important, since travelling will become unaffordable an unattractive due to drastic weather an degenerated environments.
Bottomline: The economy will benefit tremendously in 1st world countries.
And just to make this clear: Yes, this is cynic, and it's not what I feel. But it explains very well, why companies an governments don't care to much
There might be an ambiguity considering what's good for the specific man and what's good for mankind... Darwin Award, anyone?
Any nerd claiming to wear a tinfoil head is either a wannabe or part of the tinfoil conspiracy!
It is so obvious that tinfoil hats might cover you from alleged hostile brain control waves from sattelites thousands of kilometeres awas, but otoh forms a nearly parabolic antenna to the whole communication wires and infrastructure below pedestrian lanes just a couple of meters away. And coincidentally only relevant people will be affected, since only they are likely to wear - wait a minute, there is someone knocking at my door, I will write more. later.
This is one of the strengths of perl. It is the only scripting language with in-source encryption, so basically you can comply to Open Source rules and still keep the functionalities and algorithms of the software confidential.
The problem remains that they won't have access to latest source code, since the source is apparently opened after the lead devices are already on the market. Nokia would not be able to sell phones with latest version of Android with this approach.
Things will become interesting with the suite against Motorola, especially if Google is successful in buying them. If Google owns Motorola and Motorola actually pays licenses to Microsoft for using Android, it will be very entertaining. If Microsoft drops the suite (presumingly because the NDA and sweet deal you proposed was not possible with a company owned by Google) it might also be quite revealing.
(I did not find a link about the current state of that case. If it was already dropped please anyone post a link. But in this case it might still be possible for Google to publish more detailed information on the case if they are able to buy Motorola.)
You, sir, are a liar! SCNR
Maybe more than in the past but I doubt more than Android
Agreed. Also I think there might be further changes, since WP7 to WP7.5 was a major step in functionality.
Had the Meego phone come to the US on my carrier
Unfortunately Nokia doesn't have enough market share in US to convince carriers of a new system easily...
I would have gotten it next month when my contract is up
It is a very cool device from a geek point of view, and is has some extremely cool features in the UI for normal end users. But when I had access to a proto last year, it was simply not ready, the ecosystem is still not available. And even now I think there is room for improvement/maturation in the software.
Did you know that Google allows competition on Android with their own services?
I read this story: http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/
which is a clear example that Google does not (at least not always) allow this.
Example, did you know that Google allows hardware manufacturer or carrier to remove all Google services and apps from Android?
Example, did you know that Google does not pay anyone using Android or choosing Google services and apps in Android? Google does pay for device manufacturer and carrier part of the feed what it gains when user clicks an Ad when doing a search trough Google search widget when it is located to Android launch screen. But so does Google pay to Mozilla and every other who set Google search to search panel. It is same payment to every one.
You always write "Example", yet you don't provide any. I provided the example how Google hinders manufacturers to install competing services already in my thread start. (Not as a link, but I put Motorola, Google and Skyhook in context. Searching on Google, the link I posted here is the third in the list.) This contradicts quite obviously what you wrote about open development.
BTW, regarding your MS rant: I'm not saying I blame Google for their actions, so there is no point in showing that MS is acting equally ... hmmm.... revenue driven.
The difference is that MS does not advertise their system as open and does not claim to have the leading motto "don't be evil".
DISCLAIMER: I work for Nokia, but here I state my personal opinion only. Statements are only made based on public available information.
Nokia was considering Android and dumped it, because it was too painful.
I think you're missing something about Microsoft and their bank balance - this article says it best:
Wall Street had favored the popular Android system as the quick and more crowd-pleasing option. Instead, Nokia's alignment with Microsoft ties it to a partner that has deep pockets but very limited success with its Windows phones.
yes, that was their view; wall street analysts can't have deep insight in every company they write about, and here they are also missing some obvious points. As replied to the other post:
Nokia owns Navteq (they sell map data). With focus on Android this asset would be wasted. They provide an offline navigation software. Incidentally I'm working on the location where this software is implemented. This would have been wasted as well. Nokia has a business unit around location based services. This is direct competition to Google and would have been wasted. OTOH, Bing maps is already using Navteq data for some time, MS and Nokia are both cooperating with Yahoo for quite some time, etc. All this is public available information, and I think it is enough reason to turn down Android.
And also over here:
[Nokia CEO Stephen] Elop said one of the key topics in the talks on doing a deal with Microsoft was convincing Nokia that it could reach "a very low price point."
Surely this is an important factor. Only it's not about the 1 billion, but about the hardware requirements / the costs to produce a device. The average prices for smartphones are declining, and when MS sticks to strong hardware requirements it is not possible to compete in these price segment. With WP "Tango" it will be possible to serve this market as well, and I guess that Nokia got a got deal for the license per device.
Nokia owns Navteq (they sell map data). With focus on Android this asset would be wasted. They provide an offline navigation software. Incidentally I'm working on the location where this software is implemented. This would have been wasted as well. Nokia has a business unit around location based services. This is direct competition to Google and would have been wasted. OTOH, Bing maps is already using Navteq data for some time, MS and Nokia are both cooperating with Yahoo for quite some time, etc. All this is public available information, and I think it is enough reason to turn down Android. So I think it was rather a decision of building the own ecosystem for MeeGo faster or going for WP.
Of course the 1Billion did not hurt either, and I can imagine that Elop did have some good contacts to MS which helped building up the trust for negotiations. But I don't think this was the decisive issue.
Google wants to make money with their services. Therefore they need to make sure that manufacturers do not integrate competing services. To achieve this they need to make it a condition for using Android. But this is only possible as long as Android is not open source. So in return for not integrating competing services, Google offers the source code (half) a year earlier to complying manufacturers, making sure that unfriendly devices will always be at least a year behind.
DISCLAIMER: I work for Nokia, so I'm biased. But here I state my personal opinion only. Statements are only made based on public available information.