But surely you're aware of the response other companies have received when making unintentional mistakes like Be did? Surely you were aware that they would probably end up getting quite a bit of nasty e-mail, or nasty press, by publicizing this mistake *before* getting a response from Be? Surely you were aware that posting this letter before getting a response from Be was going to put you in a bad light with many people who *agree* with you about the situation?
I certainly agree with your point... However, I still feel that the polite thing would have been to wait for a response from Be, not let members of the OSS communitty crucify them as frequently happens on Slashdot. You're point would have been just as effective, if not more so.
Well, it may be no harm to the GPL, Bruce Perens, or his software, but it may be harmful to Be. Whether the raving lunatics are acting independently or as a group, many people may walk away from this with a bad opinion of Be.
Ummm... Where exactly did you make it clear that they have already promised to fix the problem? I don't see that anywhere in your letter. The end result being that you appear to have posted the letter w/o first contacting Be about this violation.
Wouldn't it have been more polite to have resolved the issue with Be and *then* warned others to be more careful, rather than getting a group of raving lunatics pissed at Be for something even you feel was unintentional?
Wait till you make a cool million selling it on VHS to people who would have waited to buy it on DVD. Then make another cool million by selling these same people the DVD.
"But the real reason I bought the G400 was because of two factors - OpenGL in a window in X and Dual Monitor Support. Most programmers will agree that openGL in a window is much better for development as you can see debugging information while running the program. Do that with a V3 in linux."
I do that all the time. What's so special about the Matrox?
Even with nVidia's old drivers, I was able to get at least 10-20 fps (depending on what else I was doing at the time)...
BTW, from what I understand, nVidia's new drivers (hopefully coming soon to a download near you) are supposed to outperform anything that the DRI can do. Then again, I heard this from an nVidia developer, so it could just be a load of crap:-)
Also, they had said pretty much from the beginning that they were going to wait for XFree86 4.0 to release high quality drivers, and that the earlier drivers were just to tide us over till 4.0 came out... I'm sure they'll be releasing their drivers sometime in the next couple weeks.
Hmmm... Considering nVidia teamed up with SGI to write these drivers, and considering SGI has been writing OpenGL drivers for X considerably longer than Precision Insight, maybe they know something you (and PI) don't...
Well, I can't argue the fact that "soon" has been going on for quite a while... But, then again, XF86 was saying that about 4.0 for quite a while, too:-)
And I agree... I'm willing to give nVidia the rest of March and maybe some of April... I can understand needing up to a month to get things in line after 4.0 was released, but considering how long the snapshots were around, I can't imagine them needing that much time.
Adam
PS. I think the nVidia tracking page is a great idea. I'll be glad to help out, too.
First: XF86 is *not* saying that. If they were, why would they make it so easy for company to write binary only modules? And just because you think they should be saying that doesn't make it so.
Second: I use Linux because I like it! Yes, I realize it exists because it's open source, but for me that's secondary. If it were closed source and as good as it is now, I would still use it.
Third: everything that works well didn't get to be that way because it's open source. Yes, linux did. Yes, Free/Net/OpenBSD did. Yes, (name your opensource project) did. That doesn't mean that being closed source *makes* something not work or not work as effectively!
And how does this differ from the view that "Every company must use our license for releasing software?"
My comment had nothing to do with XF86's licensing, only nVidia's. The point of my post, which you apparently didn't get, is that the previous poster seems to think he speaks for everyone ("make them play OUR game") when he most certainly does not.
Why not wait to see what nVidia puts out? Almost everyone here seems to be of the opinion that we should all drop our support for nVidia. Why? Have they released these binary only drivers? Do we know that they will be binary only? Do we know they will break multihead support?
In fact, Dave Schmenk (from nVidia) and I exchanged e-mail back in February. At the time, he informed me that they are, in fact, using XFree86 4.0... However, that's really all anyone seems to know about these drivers.
I waited this long for XFree86 4.0 and am more than willing to wait a little while longer for nVidia's drivers. *Then*, and only then, will I judge them.
Actually, it's not hard at all to imagine why they wouldn't use the DRI. Jon Leech, from SGI, once posted to Slashdot that the feeling is that the DRI, although a good piece of programming, is not the most effective way to implement 3D support on nVidia's cards.
Some of us don't consider Open Source "OUR game"... Some of us don't care if drivers are binary only, as long as they perform well on our OS and architecture... Are there advantages to Open Source? Certainly. Is Open Source preferred? Usually. It Open Source the "one true way"? No.
I've waited for a little while for these drivers, and I'll continue to wait a little while longer... If they put out drivers that can't perform, I'll use my Voodoo3. If they put out binary only drivers which perform as well as my Voodoo3, then I'll use my TNT2. It's as simple as that.
Not having a copy of your XFree86.0.log file, this is only a guess as to the problem... You have a Riva128... Did you ever attempt to use the accelerated GL server/libs/glx module from nVidia? If so, did you remove/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/glx.so? If not, that will *definately* cause your server to crash.
If that doesn't help, you could always post your log file on comp.os.linux.x, or even the dri-devel or dri-users mailing list (check out dri.sourceforge.net for more info).
"you could fall asleep during one scene and awaken to hear the same musical theme and feel comfortable with the ten minute gap in the score. Some people think this is wonderful, that he drives the themes home. I find it dreadfully boring and fall asleep for the entire opera. Spielberg is like this. You can miss half of a film by him and still get the same vision, which makes you wonder why the film is so much longer than it needs to be."
And this is different from a Kubrick movie how? Hell, you can fall asleep in a Kubrick movie, wake up 30 minutes later and still get the same visision of a bloated, monotonous, piece of crap the movie is (unless it's Dr. Strangelove).
Don't get me wrong... There is not doubt that ET is soppy (and sappy), and that it's aimed at kids... However, there's much an adult can, and should, take away from watching that movie. I'm doubtful that Speilburg's only intention was to entertain a bunch of three year old kids.
Rent the movie, sit back, and watch what spring to life (pun intended).
"and that is why i do not want to ever see AI without the resurrection of kubrick from the grave or some amazingly talented director taking his place (and speilburg isnt that guy)"
Then don't go see the movie when it comes out... Certainly that's a concept that an intellectual elite individual who is well read and understands the concept of art and meaning within a film can understand?
I don't think I've ever read such an elitist piece of crap on Slashdot since I stopped reading Jon Katz's articles.
A) Study both math a music for at least 4 years... Then come back and try to spout this nonsense about mathematics being more advanced.
B) I've seen many moveies based on a real story that were mutilated and butchered by the director.
C) The digital dinosaurs impressed me the first time... That was more than enough.
D) Harrison Ford, Sam Neill, Jeff Goldblum, Liam Neeson, Ben Kingsley, Ralph Fiennes, Whoopi Goldberg, John Malkovich, Christian Bale, Richard Dreyfuss, Tom Hanks... I'm not quite sure where you're pulling this "badly acted" crap from...
Slashdot Mirror
But surely you're aware of the response other companies have received when making unintentional mistakes like Be did? Surely you were aware that they would probably end up getting quite a bit of nasty e-mail, or nasty press, by publicizing this mistake *before* getting a response from Be? Surely you were aware that posting this letter before getting a response from Be was going to put you in a bad light with many people who *agree* with you about the situation?
Adam
I certainly agree with your point... However, I still feel that the polite thing would have been to wait for a response from Be, not let members of the OSS communitty crucify them as frequently happens on Slashdot. You're point would have been just as effective, if not more so.
Adam
Well, it may be no harm to the GPL, Bruce Perens, or his software, but it may be harmful to Be. Whether the raving lunatics are acting independently or as a group, many people may walk away from this with a bad opinion of Be.
Adam
Ummm... Where exactly did you make it clear that they have already promised to fix the problem? I don't see that anywhere in your letter. The end result being that you appear to have posted the letter w/o first contacting Be about this violation.
Adam
Wouldn't it have been more polite to have resolved the issue with Be and *then* warned others to be more careful, rather than getting a group of raving lunatics pissed at Be for something even you feel was unintentional?
Adam
Wait till you make a cool million selling it on VHS to people who would have waited to buy it on DVD. Then make another cool million by selling these same people the DVD.
Adam
"But the real reason I bought the G400 was because of two factors - OpenGL in a window in X and Dual Monitor Support. Most programmers will agree that openGL in a window is much better for development as you can see debugging information while running the program. Do that with a V3 in linux."
I do that all the time. What's so special about the Matrox?
Adam
nVidia's original GL drivers ran Quake2 beautifully... There last set seemed to break support for Quake2 in exchange for better support for Q3A.
nVidia keeps promising high performance drivers but they have yet to deliver.
Adam
Probably because one of two reasons:
1) They think nVidia is evil for not releasing specs and not being very Open Source friendly.
2) Because nVidia's developer's drivers suck. (But will hopefully be replaced by high quality drivers soon).
Adam
PS. Then again, it could be for both reasons.
Even with nVidia's old drivers, I was able to get at least 10-20 fps (depending on what else I was doing at the time)...
BTW, from what I understand, nVidia's new drivers (hopefully coming soon to a download near you) are supposed to outperform anything that the DRI can do. Then again, I heard this from an nVidia developer, so it could just be a load of crap
Adam
In fact, they did release source.
Also, they had said pretty much from the beginning that they were going to wait for XFree86 4.0 to release high quality drivers, and that the earlier drivers were just to tide us over till 4.0 came out... I'm sure they'll be releasing their drivers sometime in the next couple weeks.
Adam
Hmmm... Considering nVidia teamed up with SGI to write these drivers, and considering SGI has been writing OpenGL drivers for X considerably longer than Precision Insight, maybe they know something you (and PI) don't...
Adam
Well, I can't argue the fact that "soon" has been going on for quite a while... But, then again, XF86 was saying that about 4.0 for quite a while, too :-)
And I agree... I'm willing to give nVidia the rest of March and maybe some of April... I can understand needing up to a month to get things in line after 4.0 was released, but considering how long the snapshots were around, I can't imagine them needing that much time.
Adam
PS. I think the nVidia tracking page is a great idea. I'll be glad to help out, too.
First: XF86 is *not* saying that. If they were, why would they make it so easy for company to write binary only modules? And just because you think they should be saying that doesn't make it so.
Second: I use Linux because I like it! Yes, I realize it exists because it's open source, but for me that's secondary. If it were closed source and as good as it is now, I would still use it.
Third: everything that works well didn't get to be that way because it's open source. Yes, linux did. Yes, Free/Net/OpenBSD did. Yes, (name your opensource project) did. That doesn't mean that being closed source *makes* something not work or not work as effectively!
And how does this differ from the view that "Every company must use our license for releasing software?"
My comment had nothing to do with XF86's licensing, only nVidia's. The point of my post, which you apparently didn't get, is that the previous poster seems to think he speaks for everyone ("make them play OUR game") when he most certainly does not.
Adam
And bitching about it on Slashdot is oh so effective a means of relating your disgust to them?
Why not wait to see what nVidia puts out? Almost everyone here seems to be of the opinion that we should all drop our support for nVidia. Why? Have they released these binary only drivers? Do we know that they will be binary only? Do we know they will break multihead support?
In fact, Dave Schmenk (from nVidia) and I exchanged e-mail back in February. At the time, he informed me that they are, in fact, using XFree86 4.0... However, that's really all anyone seems to know about these drivers.
I waited this long for XFree86 4.0 and am more than willing to wait a little while longer for nVidia's drivers. *Then*, and only then, will I judge them.
Adam
Actually, it's not hard at all to imagine why they wouldn't use the DRI. Jon Leech, from SGI, once posted to Slashdot that the feeling is that the DRI, although a good piece of programming, is not the most effective way to implement 3D support on nVidia's cards.
Adam
Some of us don't consider Open Source "OUR game"... Some of us don't care if drivers are binary only, as long as they perform well on our OS and architecture... Are there advantages to Open Source? Certainly. Is Open Source preferred? Usually. It Open Source the "one true way"? No.
Adam
I've waited for a little while for these drivers, and I'll continue to wait a little while longer... If they put out drivers that can't perform, I'll use my Voodoo3. If they put out binary only drivers which perform as well as my Voodoo3, then I'll use my TNT2. It's as simple as that.
Adam
Not having a copy of your XFree86.0.log file, this is only a guess as to the problem... You have a Riva128... Did you ever attempt to use the accelerated GL server/libs/glx module from nVidia? If so, did you remove
If that doesn't help, you could always post your log file on comp.os.linux.x, or even the dri-devel or dri-users mailing list (check out dri.sourceforge.net for more info).
Adam
"you could fall asleep during one scene and awaken to hear the same musical theme and feel comfortable with the ten minute gap in the score. Some people think this is wonderful, that he drives the themes home. I find it dreadfully boring and fall asleep for the entire opera. Spielberg is like this. You can miss half of a film by him and still get the same vision, which makes you wonder why the film is so much longer than it needs to be."
And this is different from a Kubrick movie how? Hell, you can fall asleep in a Kubrick movie, wake up 30 minutes later and still get the same visision of a bloated, monotonous, piece of crap the movie is (unless it's Dr. Strangelove).
Adam
Don't get me wrong... There is not doubt that ET is soppy (and sappy), and that it's aimed at kids... However, there's much an adult can, and should, take away from watching that movie. I'm doubtful that Speilburg's only intention was to entertain a bunch of three year old kids.
Rent the movie, sit back, and watch what spring to life (pun intended).
Adam
"and that is why i do not want to ever see AI without the resurrection of kubrick from the grave or some amazingly talented director taking his place (and speilburg isnt that guy)"
Then don't go see the movie when it comes out... Certainly that's a concept that an intellectual elite individual who is well read and understands the concept of art and meaning within a film can understand?
I don't think I've ever read such an elitist piece of crap on Slashdot since I stopped reading Jon Katz's articles.
Adam
A) Study both math a music for at least 4 years... Then come back and try to spout this nonsense about mathematics being more advanced.
B) I've seen many moveies based on a real story that were mutilated and butchered by the director.
C) The digital dinosaurs impressed me the first time... That was more than enough.
D) Harrison Ford, Sam Neill, Jeff Goldblum, Liam Neeson, Ben Kingsley, Ralph Fiennes, Whoopi Goldberg, John Malkovich, Christian Bale, Richard Dreyfuss, Tom Hanks... I'm not quite sure where you're pulling this "badly acted" crap from...
Adam