I didn't mean literally a degree is a form of licensing. I meant that it is being used like one, requiring it for jobs, and "dis-qualifying the people who don't have one."
I agree with the rest of your article. Excellent post.
> the information about programming and computers learned would now be about 15 years out of date.
Thats not true, its only around 10.:-) (Ok, so the C++ class was up to date.) How do I know? I finished my degree a few years ago.
Was it a waste of my time? Partially. But I learnt a few gems that I wouldn't of learnt on my own. I was a self-learning already by the time I got to University, so didn't find the system to be all that beneficial.
I gave up a career at Electronic Arts to pursue my education. Do I regret that choice? No, because the degree is done for life;-) (Notice I didn't say learning is done for life!) I can go back to EA anytime.
> Some of the best developers I know have either no degree or a non-engineering degree.
Agreed. Remember you don't need education to be successfull, but it will help in the long run, all other things considered.
> Why then is a person who can write a 20 line C++ program, a programmer?
What is the DEFINITION of programming?
A person who writes a 20 line C++ program is an AMATUER or HOBBIEST. They may be good at it. They may not be. But they are STILL a programmer. No one ever said they were a professional software engineer with all the skills to design good programs.
Why does this discussion have to end with symantics?
We already have a form of licensing, its called "education papers" aka a Degree.
Sure software companies have lots of choices in the candidate pool, but the fastest way to the chaff from the wheat is to put a B.Sc requirement on the job. (Not that it always works, as there are some people I wonder how the heck they even PASSED with so little they know.)
People also seem to keep forgetting that software engineer is relatively new, 25 years, compared to the other hard-core engineering disciplines. With every company developing their own programs from scratch, instead of being able to use off-the-shelf re-usable software components, is it no wonder the quality of software is so bad? Everyone is forced to re-invent the wheel ! Fortunately, Open Souce Software is providing one solution: Developers are able to share code.
But then again, what do I know, I'm just a game developer.;-)
> And there are many non-spooging things (related to engine/code/tech) that is also important to research, and develop, that is being neglected in many engines.
Physics being one of them.
> So... fellow 3D game programmer... what are you doing your part in the non-spooge category of technology development?:)
Well since you asked: Particle Systems, Physics, and Real-time Shadows. Ok, the shadows gets into spooging.;-)
Mind if I ask what you're working on?
Slightly digressing: Where do you think the 3d hardware is going to be in 5 to 10 years?
What are your thoughts on T&L ? Is it going to give the speed increases that it has been hyped to? What about real-time mesh deformation, due to trying to get BACK values from the hardware?
Personally, I wish rendering into textures was better supported, along with the card being able to handle a few million textured polys being thrown at it. Ironically, I still like the look of a good isometeric game;-)
Oh well, at least the Geforce will be the "bottom end" in 2 years;-)
> much as driving a car without a license is illegal.
Travelling is a RIGHT, Driving is a privilege. You DON'T need a license to travel. I travel without one, and have yet to be given a ticket for speeding or for driving without a license.
Speeding is NOT a crime, UNLESS you went to the government asking for permission (DRIVER'S LICENSE) to use their property (REGISTERED VEHICLE.) Remember Speeding != reckless driving.
If you don't want to be harassed by the good law officers, you can get an International Driver's Permit, which is valid in over 200 countries. No Socialist Slave Number is required.
> As a 3D game programmer I *am* seeing very densely populated computer worlds, and not just in my engine.:)
Would the GeForce have anything to do with that?;-)
Oh wait, Drakan was playable on a P2/Voodoo. Ok, so we're _starting_ to get to see densely populated worlds. ( I'm just glad we're not seeing billboarded trees anymore. At least trees are starting to look realistic now.)
Pet peeve: Why do so many terrain engines use the [black/white] fog cop-out ? Even U9 does this.
> (Do not quote this as 3DR engine spec, or you shall be flogged.)
ACK! Flogging! There goes any hope of keeping this discussion civil. hehe =P
> On the contrary, existing security holes become vastly easier to exploit when the virus writer can see exactly how the source code works.
Hmm, Windows, closed source, more viruses. Linux, open source, less viruses. Draw your own conclusions;-)
Seriously, security by obsecurity does not work. DES has been around for what, 25 years, and I STILL don't see it being "cracked." Granted, DES is an encyrption algorithm, but you get the point.
Cheers
Linus working on his open source quote: "Software is like sex. If you have to pay for it, you got screwed. No wait, that's not quite right...";-) -- Unknown Soldier
> Certainly all of/usr and/boot should be read only. New programs added later should go in/usr/local which can be a separate partition, and even that should be read-only except when you actually add stuff.
Are there any HOW-TOs that explain how to do this?
i.e. How do you mount/boot as read-write for when you want to update your kernel ?
The physical world is VERY complex to simulate in real-time! I'm not saying photo-realism is "the ultimate means to the end", but as a benchmark / goal, it seems to work.
As a 3D game programmer I am looking forward to when a Holo-deck wil be feasible, until then we are stuck with very sparsely populated [computer] worlds.
Don't also forget real-time ray tracing will be an option in the future too.
> The difference between a 100 and a 1000 poly model is much larger than the difference between a 1000 and a 10000 poly model,
At the moment 3d looks like crap compared to a 2d isometric engine, since the poly count is so dam low.
I want 100,000 poly trees. I want to see a realistic forest that a player can walk thru. (yes, HUGE culling problem here that is going to demand some SERIOUS number crunching ability.) i.e. try rendering hair real-time.
You do have a point, but you're forgeting the TOTAL number of polys required to create a realistic world. As the hardware comes available that will give us a decent frame rate with millions of triangles... we will starting using complex rendering techiques such as NURB surfaces that need to be dynamically tesselated easilly shoting the total number of polys per frame up to the million mark PER object.
> and a good engine will allow users with vastly differing systems to use any of the above models in the same game.
Thats scalabilty, and one of the hardest problems on the PC platform.
> when I say that the days of huge game engine improvements won't last in the long run
In the early days, everyone was more or less on an equal footing: no 3d. Now a days, people are rushing to fit every known 3d feature into their game. But what happens when the 3d playing field is relatively level again, which I think is your point.
Usually, the extra cpu cycles will get spent on AI.;-)
Certain styles of games work better on PC, others play better on consoles. The console isn't going to go away anytime soon, especially as Sega, Sony, and Nintendo are pouring huge amounts of money into R&D for the next generation consoles. The 13-25 age market is just too huge too ignore also;-)
As a 3d game developer its very interesting to see which way the game industry is going to go. Having marketing basically ignoring a game unless it's 3D certainly isn't helping. Some games just don't play as well in 3D.
Unfortunately, the article is generally correct in how the game industry works overall.
IF consoles are dead, then why are Sega, Sony, and Nintendo pouring so much money into the next consoles?
Because the market is HUGE. The 13 to 25 market specifically.
3D gaming is coming on strong (for better or for worse.) Take a look at Soul Caliber for state of the art of 3d graphics on consoles.
Granted, gameplay innovation is solely lacking today. Hence the reason for tons of "clones"
As a 3D programmer, I cringe when I see 3d as the first priority and gameplay second. Ironic I know. Unfortunately marketing seems to think, if the game isn't 3D, the game won't sell.
> Big-business is so fickle and once they sense Linux has 'had its day' they'll drop it. All this support also creates more distros which we dont need!
You're forgotting it COSTS big business to change. If they have something that a) works, and b) is well supported, & c) is usually free, WHY would they jump off the Linux bandwagon?
> It's not up to you; it's up to the users of the software
No, its up to 1) The Developer AND, 2) The Users.
Users want stable software and want bugs fixed. They also want to be able share their programs.
Developers want to make money off their software for the time used to create the software (obviously this doesn't aply to all developers.)
Under the old model (closed source) the developer had the advantage, since selling copies to users is more important then fixing bugs which he may do initially to achieve the long term goal of building the customer base. But once the product hits critical mass, users tend to get shafted as they have to have the "defacto standard." (i.e. Microsoft apps. No flames please.)
Under the new paradigm (open source) the users and OTHER developers have the advantage. Bugs get fixed, since any developer can submit a patch. The one big weakness in OSS is usually usability is lacking, although we are making great progress with KDE and Gnome.
The trick is for the initial developer to make money and still being able to offer the source code. Look at how few companies are willing to take this challenge. For too many people, its just easier to use the old closed model, since it is a "proven method" that involves less risk trying to have the company make money.
I can imagine a world where every genre of software is available freely. That would be pretty cool. Is closed source going to go away? I doubt it, as that is the DEVELOPER's choice (or company) which us OSS adovates MUST respect.
Cheers
Linus working on his open source quote: Software is like sex. If you have to pay for it, you got screwed. No wait, thats not quite right...;-)
> With innovations like preemptive multitasking, virtual memory, and, something that had never been done before in the industry -- Portability to other processor families -- NT represented a technological leap beyond any of its competitors in the Unix world.
Why don't you take an Operating Systems course and learn a little bit about history. Unix had done ALL that before NT did.
If you're trying to be funny, you might to tack on an emoticon next time. i.e. something like:-)
Cheers
Software is like sex... if you had to pay for it, you got screwed. Oh wait, thats not right...;-)
Slashdot Mirror
> A degree is not any form of licensing.
I didn't mean literally a degree is a form of licensing. I meant that it is being used like one, requiring it for jobs, and "dis-qualifying the people who don't have one."
I agree with the rest of your article. Excellent post.
Cheers
> the information about programming and computers learned would now be about 15 years out of date.
:-) (Ok, so the C++ class was up to date.) How do I know? I finished my degree a few years ago.
;-) (Notice I didn't say learning is done for life!) I can go back to EA anytime.
Thats not true, its only around 10.
Was it a waste of my time? Partially. But I learnt a few gems that I wouldn't of learnt on my own. I was a self-learning already by the time I got to University, so didn't find the system to be all that beneficial.
I gave up a career at Electronic Arts to pursue my education. Do I regret that choice? No, because the degree is done for life
> Some of the best developers I know have either no degree or a non-engineering degree.
Agreed. Remember you don't need education to be successfull, but it will help in the long run, all other things considered.
Cheers
> Why then is a person who can write a 20 line C++ program, a programmer?
What is the DEFINITION of programming?
A person who writes a 20 line C++ program is an AMATUER or HOBBIEST. They may be good at it. They may not be. But they are STILL a programmer. No one ever said they were a professional software engineer with all the skills to design good programs.
Why does this discussion have to end with symantics?
Seriously, is anyone fixing Linux so that it will roll-over to 2038 correctly?
If the problem has already been fixed, then please ignore this port.
If the only rebuttal you can add is correcting the author's spelling, I guess he made his point then. ;-)
Cheers
American beer is like making love in a canoe.
They're both fucking close to water.
Fortunately American beers are no longer watered down.
Cheers
Moderate the above author's solution up. It's well thought, and it would work.
Hey, post the source for your 3l33t h@ck3R -> english translater ;-)
We already have a form of licensing, its called "education papers" aka a Degree.
;-)
Sure software companies have lots of choices in the candidate pool, but the fastest way to the chaff from the wheat is to put a B.Sc requirement on the job. (Not that it always works, as there are some people I wonder how the heck they even PASSED with so little they know.)
People also seem to keep forgetting that software engineer is relatively new, 25 years, compared to the other hard-core engineering disciplines. With every company developing their own programs from scratch, instead of being able to use off-the-shelf re-usable software components, is it no wonder the quality of software is so bad? Everyone is forced to re-invent the wheel ! Fortunately, Open Souce Software is providing one solution: Developers are able to share code.
But then again, what do I know, I'm just a game developer.
Cheers
Someone please run MD5 on the decryption source, so everyone knows they have the real McCoy.
Cheers
> Spooging is important.
;-)
... fellow 3D game programmer ... what are you doing your part in the non-spooge category of technology development? :)
;-)
;-)
;-)
I agree, Eye candy is nice
> And there are many non-spooging things (related to engine/code/tech) that is also important to research, and develop, that is being neglected in many engines.
Physics being one of them.
> So
Well since you asked: Particle Systems, Physics, and Real-time Shadows. Ok, the shadows gets into spooging.
Mind if I ask what you're working on?
Slightly digressing: Where do you think the 3d hardware is going to be in 5 to 10 years?
What are your thoughts on T&L ? Is it going to give the speed increases that it has been hyped to? What about real-time mesh deformation, due to trying to get BACK values from the hardware?
Personally, I wish rendering into textures was better supported, along with the card being able to handle a few million textured polys being thrown at it. Ironically, I still like the look of a good isometeric game
Oh well, at least the Geforce will be the "bottom end" in 2 years
Cheers
> much as driving a car without a license is illegal.
Travelling is a RIGHT, Driving is a privilege. You DON'T need a license to travel.
I travel without one, and have yet to be given a ticket for speeding or for driving without a license.
Here is a list of DOCUMENTED rulings.
Driver Licensing vs. the Right to Travel
WHERE do the police get the jurisdiction to give you a ticket in the first place since the roads ARE PUBLIC!?
Probably because you don't have the Manufactor's Statement of Origin for your automobile:
Vehicle Manufacturer's Certificate/Statement of Origin
Manufacturer's Statement of Origin - Key To ownership
My automobile is NOT registered by the government, since it is MY property.
When you buy a new autmobile, WHY does the goverment want you to surrender the MSO?
Title transfer
Licensing your new vehicle in Washington
LOUISIANA OFFICE OF MOTOR VEHICLES VEHICLE REGISTRATION & TITLE
Massachusetts Title Law
Speeding is NOT a crime, UNLESS you went to the government asking for permission (DRIVER'S LICENSE) to use their property (REGISTERED VEHICLE.) Remember Speeding != reckless driving.
If you don't want to be harassed by the good law officers, you can get an International Driver's Permit, which is valid in over 200 countries. No Socialist Slave Number is required.
Research the above links and see for yourself.
Cheers
> As a 3D game programmer I *am* seeing very densely populated computer worlds, and not just in my engine. :)
;-)
Would the GeForce have anything to do with that?
Oh wait, Drakan was playable on a P2/Voodoo. Ok, so we're _starting_ to get to see densely populated worlds. ( I'm just glad we're not seeing billboarded trees anymore. At least trees are starting to look realistic now.)
Pet peeve: Why do so many terrain engines use the [black/white] fog cop-out ? Even U9 does this.
> (Do not quote this as 3DR engine spec, or you shall be flogged.)
ACK! Flogging! There goes any hope of keeping this discussion civil. hehe =P
Cheers
> On the contrary, existing security holes become vastly easier to exploit when the virus writer can see exactly how the source code works.
;-)
;-)
Hmm,
Windows, closed source, more viruses.
Linux, open source, less viruses.
Draw your own conclusions
Seriously, security by obsecurity does not work.
DES has been around for what, 25 years, and I STILL don't see it being "cracked." Granted, DES is an encyrption algorithm, but you get the point.
Cheers
Linus working on his open source quote: "Software is like sex. If you have to pay for it, you got screwed. No wait, that's not quite right..."
-- Unknown Soldier
Thats a great idea. Mind if I send it to David Ranch? (so he can incorporate it into his Securing Linux Doc aka "Trinity OS")
Securing Linux - Trinity OS
Cheers
> In the US more than 95% of the privately held land is owned by only 3% of the population.
Do you mean most people not having Allodial Title for their land ?
Do you happen to have a link to the source of that data?
Thx.
> Certainly all of /usr and /boot should be read only. New programs added later should go in /usr/local which can be a separate partition, and even that should be read-only except when you actually add stuff.
/boot as read-write for when you want to update your kernel ?
Are there any HOW-TOs that explain how to do this?
i.e. How do you mount
Thx.
The physical world is VERY complex to simulate in real-time! I'm not saying photo-realism is "the ultimate means to the end", but as a benchmark / goal, it seems to work.
;-)
As a 3D game programmer I am looking forward to when a Holo-deck wil be feasible, until then we are stuck with very sparsely populated [computer] worlds.
Don't also forget real-time ray tracing will be an option in the future too.
> The difference between a 100 and a 1000 poly model is much larger than the difference between a 1000 and a 10000 poly model,
At the moment 3d looks like crap compared to a 2d isometric engine, since the poly count is so dam low.
I want 100,000 poly trees. I want to see a realistic forest that a player can walk thru. (yes, HUGE culling problem here that is going to demand some SERIOUS number crunching ability.)
i.e. try rendering hair real-time.
You do have a point, but you're forgeting the TOTAL number of polys required to create a realistic world. As the hardware comes available that will give us a decent frame rate with millions of triangles... we will starting using complex rendering techiques such as NURB surfaces that need to be dynamically tesselated easilly shoting the total number of polys per frame up to the million mark PER object.
> and a good engine will allow users with vastly differing systems to use any of the above models in the same game.
Thats scalabilty, and one of the hardest problems on the PC platform.
> when I say that the days of huge game engine improvements won't last in the long run
In the early days, everyone was more or less on an equal footing: no 3d. Now a days, people are rushing to fit every known 3d feature into their game. But what happens when the 3d playing field is relatively level again, which I think is your point.
Usually, the extra cpu cycles will get spent on AI.
Cheers
> stories of companies who would like to strike all development credits from games. Fortunately this hasn't happened yet, but it is always a risk.
;-) Heck, my mom was pround after seeing me in the company photo.
;-)
Yeah right. If a team of programmers (and artists, musicians, designers, etc) develop a game, they have the right to be listed as [co-]creators.
Besides, who doesn't want their name up in lights for the 15 seconds of fame?
Fortunately, us game developers still have some "rights"
Cheers
Console vs PC game genre comparision
Certain styles of games work better on PC, others play better on consoles. The console isn't going to go away anytime soon, especially as Sega, Sony, and Nintendo are pouring huge amounts of money into R&D for the next generation consoles. The 13-25 age market is just too huge too ignore also ;-)
As a 3d game developer its very interesting to see which way the game industry is going to go. Having marketing basically ignoring a game unless it's 3D certainly isn't helping. Some games just don't play as well in 3D.
Unfortunately, the article is generally correct in how the game industry works overall.
Cheers
IF consoles are dead, then why are Sega, Sony, and Nintendo pouring so much money into the next consoles?
Because the market is HUGE. The 13 to 25 market specifically.
3D gaming is coming on strong (for better or for worse.) Take a look at Soul Caliber for state of the art of 3d graphics on consoles.
Granted, gameplay innovation is solely lacking today. Hence the reason for tons of "clones"
As a 3D programmer, I cringe when I see 3d as the first priority and gameplay second. Ironic I know. Unfortunately marketing seems to think, if the game isn't 3D, the game won't sell.
Cheers
Subject asks it all. ;-)
> Big-business is so fickle and once they sense Linux has 'had its day' they'll drop it. All this support also creates more distros which we dont need!
You're forgotting it COSTS big business to change. If they have something that
a) works, and
b) is well supported, &
c) is usually free,
WHY would they jump off the Linux bandwagon?
Cheers
> It's not up to you; it's up to the users of the software
;-)
No, its up to
1) The Developer AND,
2) The Users.
Users want stable software and want bugs fixed. They also want to be able share their programs.
Developers want to make money off their software for the time used to create the software (obviously this doesn't aply to all developers.)
Under the old model (closed source) the developer had the advantage, since selling copies to users is more important then fixing bugs which he may do initially to achieve the long term goal of building the customer base. But once the product hits critical mass, users tend to get shafted as they have to have the "defacto standard."
(i.e. Microsoft apps. No flames please.)
Under the new paradigm (open source) the users and OTHER developers have the advantage. Bugs get fixed, since any developer can submit a patch. The one big weakness in OSS is usually usability is lacking, although we are making great progress with KDE and Gnome.
The trick is for the initial developer to make money and still being able to offer the source code. Look at how few companies are willing to take this challenge.
For too many people, its just easier to use the old closed model, since it is a "proven method" that involves less risk trying to have the company make money.
I can imagine a world where every genre of software is available freely. That would be pretty cool. Is closed source going to go away? I doubt it, as that is the DEVELOPER's choice (or company) which us OSS adovates MUST respect.
Cheers
Linus working on his open source quote: Software is like sex. If you have to pay for it, you got screwed. No wait, thats not quite right...
> With innovations like preemptive multitasking, virtual memory, and, something that had never been done before in the industry -- Portability to other processor families -- NT represented a technological leap beyond any of its competitors in the Unix world.
:-)
;-)
Why don't you take an Operating Systems course and learn a little bit about history. Unix had done ALL that before NT did.
If you're trying to be funny, you might to tack on an emoticon next time. i.e. something like
Cheers
Software is like sex... if you had to pay for it, you got screwed. Oh wait, thats not right...