When it's our hard earned money, we "try before you buy". What's hard to understand about that?
---And nobody owes you anything.
If they wanted it a secret, they shouldnt have made it nor published it. A secret isnt a secret when one can go and buy it from any box store. And they dont "owe" me a penny, because copied bits arent worth much at all.
---(It's not like I don't download stuff, but I'm not cavalier about it either. The right thing doesn't stop being right when it stops being easy.)
Oh, come on. Most people who download stuff that's copyrighted still trade it to friends and relatives. That's no surprise. I'm just saying if you want MY and my friends business to treat us right.
Dont try to trash our computers. Dont try to make games uncopyable (if one can read, one can copy). Dont hassle the user above the free pirated version. Dont treat the paying customers like a criminal.
Hell, the pirated versions are already free, and they almost always work better than the versions in the store. Free and friendly OR $$$ and enemy?
Of course. If people start using Q codes on simplex or a repeater, you're going to get funny looks and a lot of "whats that in english?", even with the best of hams.
Now, if we're talking about a moonbounce signal using 2m and transmitting on only 30Hz of bandwidth, then there's no voice for you. You had better have some shorthand system. That's where Q codes work. They also work rather well on the very low HF bands... One can hear the cw chirps over the static.
I agree too, but I disagree in that it will never happen as you would like.
Our federal government likes too much control, and we have allowed it to continue. The only way to go back to states rights is to go before the civil war, and no militia from bumfuck is going to fight. It will come down to the states seceding from the union, as it did once before. I'd rather leave for somewhere nice, like Australia, Switzerland, or Japan before that crap happens. I want no part of that.
Our federal government shouldnt have any power to control in-state substances, nor control firearms, nor even have the fed. It's just not a power granted to Congress, but that doesnt stop them. It's pretty much wishful thinking on the part of Ron Paul and other Constitutionalists. It should happen, but wont.
Sorry, I didnt answer this either, but I know it intuitively from working on this stuff.
We have simplex (talking on 1 channel). That is what BPL uses, as it stays in 1 spot on the frequency chart. X watts is emnated at this frequency. That means that specific frequency is essentially blasted out. Why? Modern receivers can receive signals as low as a nanowatt, along with major noise reduction equipment and finely tuned band-pass filters.
0000/\0000 ___/--\___
Is what it looks like. One swath is cut out. Now, if we go with FHSS (frequency hopping spread spectrum), we raise the noise floor. Now, normally we would destroy one channel on 6m. Instead, FHSS would raise the whole 6m spectrum making the whole 6m band purely unusable.
_/\__/\_ 00000000
There's crappy ascii arts of where the spikes and noise floor would be. It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.
BPL uses a modulated carrier around 6 meter (~50 MHz). Our amateur licensed transmitters can transmit from 50MHz to 54MHz. And as we learn with radio, a transmitter is also a weak receiver and vice versa. I know that BPL uses a carrier in that band, but I am unsure of the exact frequency allocation.
Because they use that carrier, the whole power grid turns into an antenna. That prevents us from using much of 6m. Along with that, if we use a linear amp (say 1kW) to poke out of the interference zone, which we are legally allowed to do, we inject our signal back in the power lines eliminating the broadband in BPL.
And as a note, 6m is known to do atmospheric bounce for thousands of miles. I was at one Field day where we used a 1 watt transmitter and contacted someone in Rio de Janerio (sp?).
We, instead, could detect false signals and ring a bell on what the designer thinks is "very bad input". These device guys know how the biology works, and what signals are just impossible. Instead of catching every last remnant of EM, they could catch errors and loudly warn the nurse/physician like INTERFERENCE DETECTED signal.
If there were bad EM detectors built into life-critical devices, FCC Part 18 solves that issue rather well.
---But the vulnerability of the binary to being altered is not unique to being run on an open source platform. Having the source of the operating system does not in any meaningful way make the crack simpler.
I beg to differ. In Windows, we do not control the kernel or the environment. MS does so and gives us API's in which to control it. In reality, there are many undocumented APIs and hacks that are used as "anti-cracking" controls. For example, there's many versions of anti-softice and anti-debugger code.
In Linux, we know how it all fits together. We also have the source (well, so do they). Because of that, we can use things like Xen or other kernel branches for virtualization. Because we can do that, we can run these target naughty apps under a fine microscope in which it cannot detect easily (yes, there are cpu timing detections and such).And if the app does X bad behavior, we can revert.
Another nasty tactic is to run rootkits on our own kernel as a hidden detection scheme. There's kmods that can hide processes, hide files, hide users,hide modules, hide all sorts of things. We could use these as stealth detections on bad programs that try to prevent Y behaviors.
Unlike Windows, we have scads of tools to design, attack, and prevent stupid and evil programs. And we know how things work.
Why are these medical devices having problems like that? I thought medical devices were SUPPOSED to be hardened against bad things and fail over nicely.
I am, for starters, a seeker. We find things. Software, patches, memory locations to crack, you name it.
I can find any software you're looking for, along with the appropriate versions and cracks. In fact, I can find nearly every song, video, software, or media of every sort on the internet. You will not stop me.
Instead, by creating intuitive and interesting games will encourage me to buy and suggest to our lan group to buy. CD checks are stupid. Serials are stupid (with exception to online extras). Treating us badly is stupid. If you make it easy for us to create content, we will most likely buy. If you open up your file formats for us to make massive game changes, we most likely will buy. If, instead, you prevent us from making our content, we wont look at your game, either to pirate or buy.
Ill ask this: what is one of the older games that had no cd check, open file formats including how to write AIs and docs in the original packs? Total Annihilation.
What game is still being played around with in terms of a 3D gpl program, crazy amount of extra units, and game changing mods? Total Annihilation.
What game allowed 1 "legit" to also host 2 other players who didnt even have the game? Total Annihilation. I dont know of any newer games that allowed a multiplayer spawn..
Then you are a moron for not knowing the distinction between Encryption and DRM.
Ill give you a hint: encryption is between 2 willing parties while hiding from others. DRM is between the "creator" and the computer while hiding from YOU.
Guess which one is nigh guaranteed and which one breaks down in a mass of siliconny goo?
All software is debuggable. All Ill have to do is debug the code and find the proper JMP's to substitute. Or at worst case, write a server that spits out the requisite information.
---It is becoming pretty clear from all these DRM articles lately that many Slashdotters are extremely arrogant.
Gee.. Where did you get that idea? Here's a clue: we dont pay for non-working software, but that's what they're offering. Hence people dont pay. Copyright violations is a valid form of boycotting.
---I say many because I have to assume that is the case when the majority of the comments that are modded up deal with people saying either: DRM is bad and will cost them more customers than if they left it open or DRM will cause the posting Slashdotter to pirate the game.
I do my share. Especially on older titles in which arent even sold. I also vet our games in the lan group to make sure bad shit doesnt happen to our machines... Or do you think Starforce, Securom and its ilk are good for computer users?
If you think that anti-user software is good, you're a moron.
---I say this is arrogant because there is just some sort of assumption that what they are saying is factual without any thing to back it up. You may feel that DRM costs them more customers because you won't by it, but more likely it is the case that they ran the numbers and found that not to be true. Also, it is arrogant to think you are morally ok to pirate the game just because they do something you don't like.
For one, I AM arrogant and I like it. I know im better than the likes of you and your decisions about the rest of us. I know me and my friends and my girlfriend. I speak for myself and partially for my friends and gf. At most, I inform my friends of their choices as I am the information gatherer and seeker. I enable.
The second you try to install programs that act like viruses or logic bombs, I deem myself ethically to do whatever with your "software". Your rights end when they come on MY computer and attempt to damage it in ANY way. And if you attempt to deprive me of MY rights, I will do the same to you, and donate the software to everybody in the group with proper cracking documentation.
Treat me right, and you will have 1-8 sales. Treat me wrong, and you will have 0 sales.
---I am fine with the people who buy the game than use a cracked version. But the people who just pirate and justify it are just nuts. I actually don't care if you pirate the game, just don't make up stuff saying that what you are doing is right.
And what does that tell the manufacturer? Ram anti-user software up your ass, and pay for it too! Remember that each sale encourages them to do this. We do NOT want to encourage it.
---If people didn't pirate, there wouldn't be DRM. Yet Slashdot blames the companies for adding DRM and openly admit they will pirate the game. This just further justifies their actions. I just don't understand why some of you are so irrational about this. It is like a religious debate where facts and logic have no room to exist.
WRONG. DRM is a way to extent rights the copyright creators DO NOT HAVE. Does Blu-Ray have fair use access? Heh heh heh. Do you have the right to back up your DVDs? Yep, the SCOTUS said so, but DMCA says you cant crack the anti-copying garbage. If you buy an e-book, can you sell it under first sale doctrine? Remember Dmitri? There's your rights under DRM. But you can always buy the next crippled copy at full retail price!
And why is Copyright soo religious? There's something about going from 17 year copyright period to 50yrs+authors death. Whenever the big media companies have their stuff running out of "time", they lobby congress for and extension. And guess who comes around each and every time? Copyright was originally a bargain to encourage new content. That bargain has been broken repeatedly. Our current technology allows us to say that.
And, there's something about the heyday of Napster having more users than people who voted in that years presidential elections.
---I am fine with the people who buy the game than use a cracked version. But the people who just pirate and justify it are just nuts. I actually don't care if you pirate
If there's any protections at all, a good md5sum as the "version number" would be a great way. We publicly know the warezed md5sum as it was cracked and BT'ed on thepiratebay. Ok. As a bug filing, you put in the md5sum version in the forms of 2.3.23fe64859ab3c9f or someing akin to that.
That method shows nothing from Snoopdog (or whatever the ethereal project name is today) because the user put it in.
And I do think requesting help from ill gotten software is bad. Try to buy works, and if it works to your expectations, buy it. If not, dump-da-dump.
There's older games which we all play (in close knit lan parties) that have absolutely no "stupid user" protection. Stupid-user protection? That's because the stupids cant find the cracks.
We play games like UT, Total Annihilation,TA: Spring, N64 games via emulator, chess, go, Magic: The Gathering, and a few others I cant remember the name of.
Yeah, some of those are board games (chess and go) and M:TG is a card game, but we have about 6 people who play in our group. Hell, TA has been "dead" for 10 years? yet people are still updating mods for it to this day. We've played 10 players on 64x64 maps with up to 5000 units per side. From my experience, there's no other game that can handle that sheer amount of units on any field at once.
UT also never really gets old due to the crazy mods and mutators available for it. We even have one game with magic spells and leveling up and stuff.. Its just crazy.
And all the computer games run on everybody's machine. That's the biggest plus.
They'll have the "goods" and a md5sum.txt with the md5sum of the "goods" and a GPG signature around the md5sum AND the gpg signature of the file. Then they zip it.
Slashdot Mirror
And ballistics and GSR tests do not work with arrows.
And there's no "bow and arrow" legislation. In fact, its legal for me to hunt deer in our subdivision in the city.
Whats that?
1 ? 00:21:02 world
2 ? 00:00:04 greek (X)
_...
1776 tty0 00:00:02 USA
1992 pts/0 00:00:00 Iraq (Z)
---Might does not automatically mean right.
Never said it did.
---Can does not automatically mean should.
When it's our hard earned money, we "try before you buy". What's hard to understand about that?
---And nobody owes you anything.
If they wanted it a secret, they shouldnt have made it nor published it. A secret isnt a secret when one can go and buy it from any box store. And they dont "owe" me a penny, because copied bits arent worth much at all.
---(It's not like I don't download stuff, but I'm not cavalier about it either. The right thing doesn't stop being right when it stops being easy.)
Oh, come on. Most people who download stuff that's copyrighted still trade it to friends and relatives. That's no surprise. I'm just saying if you want MY and my friends business to treat us right.
Dont try to trash our computers.
Dont try to make games uncopyable (if one can read, one can copy).
Dont hassle the user above the free pirated version.
Dont treat the paying customers like a criminal.
Hell, the pirated versions are already free, and they almost always work better than the versions in the store. Free and friendly OR $$$ and enemy?
Really? Care to post a source?
Of course. If people start using Q codes on simplex or a repeater, you're going to get funny looks and a lot of "whats that in english?", even with the best of hams.
Now, if we're talking about a moonbounce signal using 2m and transmitting on only 30Hz of bandwidth, then there's no voice for you. You had better have some shorthand system. That's where Q codes work. They also work rather well on the very low HF bands... One can hear the cw chirps over the static.
What is sad is I complained about slashdot's noise level and nobody caught it :(
I agree too, but I disagree in that it will never happen as you would like.
Our federal government likes too much control, and we have allowed it to continue. The only way to go back to states rights is to go before the civil war, and no militia from bumfuck is going to fight. It will come down to the states seceding from the union, as it did once before. I'd rather leave for somewhere nice, like Australia, Switzerland, or Japan before that crap happens. I want no part of that.
Our federal government shouldnt have any power to control in-state substances, nor control firearms, nor even have the fed. It's just not a power granted to Congress, but that doesnt stop them. It's pretty much wishful thinking on the part of Ron Paul and other Constitutionalists. It should happen, but wont.
Congrats on your extra.
KC9JEF, 73
Sorry, I didnt answer this either, but I know it intuitively from working on this stuff.
We have simplex (talking on 1 channel). That is what BPL uses, as it stays in 1 spot on the frequency chart. X watts is emnated at this frequency. That means that specific frequency is essentially blasted out. Why? Modern receivers can receive signals as low as a nanowatt, along with major noise reduction equipment and finely tuned band-pass filters.
0000/\0000
___/--\___
Is what it looks like. One swath is cut out. Now, if we go with FHSS (frequency hopping spread spectrum), we raise the noise floor. Now, normally we would destroy one channel on 6m. Instead, FHSS would raise the whole 6m spectrum making the whole 6m band purely unusable.
_/\__/\_
00000000
There's crappy ascii arts of where the spikes and noise floor would be. It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.
No, SK is for sign off. I was passing the channel back to you or another ham :)
He answered your question rather effectively.
BPL uses a modulated carrier around 6 meter (~50 MHz). Our amateur licensed transmitters can transmit from 50MHz to 54MHz. And as we learn with radio, a transmitter is also a weak receiver and vice versa. I know that BPL uses a carrier in that band, but I am unsure of the exact frequency allocation.
Because they use that carrier, the whole power grid turns into an antenna. That prevents us from using much of 6m. Along with that, if we use a linear amp (say 1kW) to poke out of the interference zone, which we are legally allowed to do, we inject our signal back in the power lines eliminating the broadband in BPL.
And as a note, 6m is known to do atmospheric bounce for thousands of miles. I was at one Field day where we used a 1 watt transmitter and contacted someone in Rio de Janerio (sp?).
N3XMQ DE KC9JEF slashdot QRM K
Did I say impervious?
Nope.
We, instead, could detect false signals and ring a bell on what the designer thinks is "very bad input". These device guys know how the biology works, and what signals are just impossible. Instead of catching every last remnant of EM, they could catch errors and loudly warn the nurse/physician like INTERFERENCE DETECTED signal.
If there were bad EM detectors built into life-critical devices, FCC Part 18 solves that issue rather well.
---But the vulnerability of the binary to being altered is not unique to being run on an open source platform. Having the source of the operating system does not in any meaningful way make the crack simpler.
I beg to differ. In Windows, we do not control the kernel or the environment. MS does so and gives us API's in which to control it. In reality, there are many undocumented APIs and hacks that are used as "anti-cracking" controls. For example, there's many versions of anti-softice and anti-debugger code.
In Linux, we know how it all fits together. We also have the source (well, so do they). Because of that, we can use things like Xen or other kernel branches for virtualization. Because we can do that, we can run these target naughty apps under a fine microscope in which it cannot detect easily (yes, there are cpu timing detections and such).And if the app does X bad behavior, we can revert.
Another nasty tactic is to run rootkits on our own kernel as a hidden detection scheme. There's kmods that can hide processes, hide files, hide users,hide modules, hide all sorts of things. We could use these as stealth detections on bad programs that try to prevent Y behaviors.
Unlike Windows, we have scads of tools to design, attack, and prevent stupid and evil programs. And we know how things work.
Why are these medical devices having problems like that? I thought medical devices were SUPPOSED to be hardened against bad things and fail over nicely.
I guess not.
I am, for starters, a seeker. We find things. Software, patches, memory locations to crack, you name it.
I can find any software you're looking for, along with the appropriate versions and cracks. In fact, I can find nearly every song, video, software, or media of every sort on the internet. You will not stop me.
Instead, by creating intuitive and interesting games will encourage me to buy and suggest to our lan group to buy. CD checks are stupid. Serials are stupid (with exception to online extras). Treating us badly is stupid. If you make it easy for us to create content, we will most likely buy. If you open up your file formats for us to make massive game changes, we most likely will buy. If, instead, you prevent us from making our content, we wont look at your game, either to pirate or buy.
Ill ask this: what is one of the older games that had no cd check, open file formats including how to write AIs and docs in the original packs? Total Annihilation.
What game is still being played around with in terms of a 3D gpl program, crazy amount of extra units, and game changing mods? Total Annihilation.
What game allowed 1 "legit" to also host 2 other players who didnt even have the game? Total Annihilation. I dont know of any newer games that allowed a multiplayer spawn..
Now, guess what our lan group bought.
Then you are a moron for not knowing the distinction between Encryption and DRM.
Ill give you a hint: encryption is between 2 willing parties while hiding from others. DRM is between the "creator" and the computer while hiding from YOU.
Guess which one is nigh guaranteed and which one breaks down in a mass of siliconny goo?
Look at the bright side: The dog's probably a history grad.
And that's a step up from what we're dealing with.
All software is debuggable. All Ill have to do is debug the code and find the proper JMP's to substitute. Or at worst case, write a server that spits out the requisite information.
After all... Who's root? The Owner.
---It is becoming pretty clear from all these DRM articles lately that many Slashdotters are extremely arrogant.
Gee.. Where did you get that idea? Here's a clue: we dont pay for non-working software, but that's what they're offering. Hence people dont pay. Copyright violations is a valid form of boycotting.
---I say many because I have to assume that is the case when the majority of the comments that are modded up deal with people saying either: DRM is bad and will cost them more customers than if they left it open or DRM will cause the posting Slashdotter to pirate the game.
I do my share. Especially on older titles in which arent even sold. I also vet our games in the lan group to make sure bad shit doesnt happen to our machines... Or do you think Starforce, Securom and its ilk are good for computer users?
If you think that anti-user software is good, you're a moron.
---I say this is arrogant because there is just some sort of assumption that what they are saying is factual without any thing to back it up. You may feel that DRM costs them more customers because you won't by it, but more likely it is the case that they ran the numbers and found that not to be true. Also, it is arrogant to think you are morally ok to pirate the game just because they do something you don't like.
For one, I AM arrogant and I like it. I know im better than the likes of you and your decisions about the rest of us. I know me and my friends and my girlfriend. I speak for myself and partially for my friends and gf. At most, I inform my friends of their choices as I am the information gatherer and seeker. I enable.
The second you try to install programs that act like viruses or logic bombs, I deem myself ethically to do whatever with your "software". Your rights end when they come on MY computer and attempt to damage it in ANY way. And if you attempt to deprive me of MY rights, I will do the same to you, and donate the software to everybody in the group with proper cracking documentation.
Treat me right, and you will have 1-8 sales. Treat me wrong, and you will have 0 sales.
---I am fine with the people who buy the game than use a cracked version. But the people who just pirate and justify it are just nuts. I actually don't care if you pirate the game, just don't make up stuff saying that what you are doing is right.
And what does that tell the manufacturer? Ram anti-user software up your ass, and pay for it too! Remember that each sale encourages them to do this. We do NOT want to encourage it.
---If people didn't pirate, there wouldn't be DRM. Yet Slashdot blames the companies for adding DRM and openly admit they will pirate the game. This just further justifies their actions. I just don't understand why some of you are so irrational about this. It is like a religious debate where facts and logic have no room to exist.
WRONG. DRM is a way to extent rights the copyright creators DO NOT HAVE. Does Blu-Ray have fair use access? Heh heh heh. Do you have the right to back up your DVDs? Yep, the SCOTUS said so, but DMCA says you cant crack the anti-copying garbage. If you buy an e-book, can you sell it under first sale doctrine? Remember Dmitri? There's your rights under DRM. But you can always buy the next crippled copy at full retail price!
And why is Copyright soo religious? There's something about going from 17 year copyright period to 50yrs+authors death. Whenever the big media companies have their stuff running out of "time", they lobby congress for and extension. And guess who comes around each and every time? Copyright was originally a bargain to encourage new content. That bargain has been broken repeatedly. Our current technology allows us to say that.
And, there's something about the heyday of Napster having more users than people who voted in that years presidential elections.
---I am fine with the people who buy the game than use a cracked version. But the people who just pirate and justify it are just nuts. I actually don't care if you pirate
There's plenty of ways to determine that.
If there's any protections at all, a good md5sum as the "version number" would be a great way. We publicly know the warezed md5sum as it was cracked and BT'ed on thepiratebay. Ok. As a bug filing, you put in the md5sum version in the forms of 2.3.23fe64859ab3c9f or someing akin to that.
That method shows nothing from Snoopdog (or whatever the ethereal project name is today) because the user put it in.
And I do think requesting help from ill gotten software is bad. Try to buy works, and if it works to your expectations, buy it. If not, dump-da-dump.
There's older games which we all play (in close knit lan parties) that have absolutely no "stupid user" protection. Stupid-user protection? That's because the stupids cant find the cracks.
We play games like UT, Total Annihilation,TA: Spring, N64 games via emulator, chess, go, Magic: The Gathering, and a few others I cant remember the name of.
Yeah, some of those are board games (chess and go) and M:TG is a card game, but we have about 6 people who play in our group. Hell, TA has been "dead" for 10 years? yet people are still updating mods for it to this day. We've played 10 players on 64x64 maps with up to 5000 units per side. From my experience, there's no other game that can handle that sheer amount of units on any field at once.
UT also never really gets old due to the crazy mods and mutators available for it. We even have one game with magic spells and leveling up and stuff.. Its just crazy.
And all the computer games run on everybody's machine. That's the biggest plus.
Even the pirate groups do that.
They'll have the "goods" and a md5sum.txt with the md5sum of the "goods" and a GPG signature around the md5sum AND the gpg signature of the file. Then they zip it.
Wow. You're an engrish grad.
Wanna cookie?
tl; dr
hint: Try paragraphs and distilling your ideas.