And Debian Stable will continue to be worked upon, security updates and packages.
And frankly, we expect a bug free system. If MS sold damaged goods, I don't see why they shouldnt be required by law to fix them, regardless of 10 years or whatever. Since there is no such thing as bit-rot, MS must have sold broken software.
Unless MS wants to relinquish sorce for WinNT 3.51, 4, win3.1, 95, and all the unsupported OS'es for the community to handle, they should be responsible, EULA or not.
Does a semi with a bumper sticker saying "Not responsible for vehicular homicide" make them immune from prosecution? Does a boiler-plate demand (after the fact, mind you) absolve their legal requirements of fitness?
I'm a nerd who recent bought a VPS. 10GB storage, 100GB xfer.
I use SSH to control it. I also use apache with auth on the main page. Nobody gets in unless they can guess the 25 char string for the whopping 3 acccts. They are different than the ssh pwds too.
For my personal bulk downloading, I get stuff at 10-20 MB/s. 1 gig in a minute or so.. After getting, I encrypt EVERYTHING under anonymous names, public keyed to me and friends.
I trained my friends how to use Firefox/foxyproxy, PuTTY, GPG, and linux console.:)
I think we can both agree that we each have different beliefs. I can respect that.
Whether yours is the ultimate answer, or mine is the ultimate answer.. I don't know. I don't pretend to know. However, I do consider this thought-experiment to be interesting (in a good way).
I do thank you for conversing. It was enlightening.
Oh, differential eq does suck. I had a friend at iupui just drop it at the last possible date cause it was unworkable. The prof was an ass and did "magic math": didnt explain what his steps were.
Our prof here at IUPUC (Dan Rusu) explains everything in terms of proofs and is concise in all he teaches. If you put in the work, you will understand it. And.. if you dont, he's available all the time to help. I've even got help from him with physics work.
I do thank you for answering. I didn't think you would due to the oldness of this slashdot article. I'll give a bit more reasoning behind my question (some of which were flamebait-ish).
1. I study, and will minor in anthropology (major in electrical engineering). You couldn't believe how many belief systems there are out there, and the varied attributes given to each. Some wish for converts, while others deign people emulating their religion (native americans do not want followers- aka white guys).
Nearly every religion says that they are right, and all others are wrong, while dismissing to $evil_place those who do not believe. I choose to reject any religion that attempts to condemn me for any arbitrary reason.
My experience with Christianity: I was raised Catholic, and well versed with the faith, along with the church's history through the ages. I have studied the lost works of the Bible, including why the Catholics decided to erase them (Gnostics and other pre 300ad groups). I also have a good friend who I discuss religious issues with. He's soon to be a PhD in Catholic studies through St. Meinrad.
What I choose to question is after careful deliberation on "why".
2. My basis for this question is it compares the schism between Hindusim and Buddhism. Buddhism came from Hinduism and its pantheon of gods. Buddhists had to come to terms what exactly these beings were: They were delusional entities that were of higher planes of existence, yet did not embody perfection.
I also directly question the acts the Old Testament God did: we would call them acts of genocide and serial murderer. I do not party with criminals, as I do not want to associate with them. The same could be said for Old Testament God. I reject his light, as it is a false light of hate, intolerance, injustice: I would call these evil.
The New Testament comes from a completely different viewpoint: that of loving-kindness. One is required to love and be kind to all others, regardless of any differences. One is required to not challenge evil. Instead of the 10 Commandments, we have the Beatitudes. Instead of a great powerful and rich king, we have a pauper who was born with animals, who shows by compassion alone how to be greater than any other living king.
3. Catholics teach that many stories in the Bible are figurative ways to describe to older generations creation myths that do not include science. For example, we do not believe that Genesis happened (we do accept the theories of solar system genesis), but was a figurative way to explain God doing something hat we couldn't see.
I do not accept that Genesis happened in any way mentioned in the Bible, as I am a scientist. Evidence indicates that the earth has been here much longer than a few thousand years, however God could have created it that way (viewpoint mentioned in "Job: A Comedy of Errors" - Heinlein). Still, what are alliterations and what are not?
When one studies the Synaptic Gospels, one can refer to older works of transcription found in the 1500's, the 1300's, the 1000's, 600's, and earlier. One can even trace what priest placed what passage in any arbitrary book. For example, the story of the adulteress by the well seems to have been created in 1100. I cannot find the academic paper that outlines this (right now, no access to scholastic journals from where I am).
It is said that the act of God makes sure that all copies of the Bible are inspired, no.. written by God. Why then, are there errors and insertions of false content? How can I trust anything, whether it be a description of a more complex event, or outright fake? That's my quarrel.
5. But I have found hatred and intolerance everywhere I go.. except one place. That one place is a Buddhist temple. They seek to extinguish hate, intolerance... craving. Every church I have been to threatens, either directly or indirectly, that you will go to hell if you don't follow us. I have heard this time and time again, phrased in parables and in sermons, and in lectures.
1. Why would I want to be subservient to a God (in particular, Your god)?
2. How do I know that this God isn't delusional and thinks of himself as a God? He has shown temper-tantrums in the past, if they are to be believed. Many died due to them.
3.Christianity in its roots seems to duplicate many parts of Buddhism. Why Christianity rather than Buddhism, or atheism?
4.Why do many those who call Christians, are also so bloodthirsty? Were you all not followers of a man of peace?
5.Why would I want to become acquainted with people who down the ages have been as brutal as the rest of the "heathens"?
6.(optional) If you are Jehova's Witness, do you think you're one of the 144,000? Why would I accept any kind of fate that would have me pitted against a fellow man?
When Christians get insulted by the mass media, they're expected to grin and bear it.
When Jews get insulted by the mass media, they're expected to grin and bear it.
When Muslims get insulted by mass media, they burn flags, blow up embassies, rampage cities, and other uncouth behaviors that show they have the controls of a 3 year old. I know many 3 year olds that throw tantrums when angry. And the parents dont listen to them either. Sadfully, those countries have no "parent" that can appropriately discipline them, as they need to be.
The problem isnt our media, or the other religions. The problem is the Muslims and what their imams have done to their societies. I see no reason why we should deal with their ilk until they can cooperate on a peaceful level. Even the Irish Republican Army saw that.
---Make no mistake, the resurgence of *any* religion is the end of progress or people toward freedom. All religion is about control. All religion is about hate. All religion is about making the peasants suffer in quiet while they dream of a better after-life.
It is? Christianity originally was a religion of peace and subservience. Go back and read (critically) the books of the Gospels: what other meanings does Matthew 5:39 have? It tells to not resist evil. The Pentarch discusses how to treat non-Jews, but the Gospels tells how to treat everybody. Or, does "love one another" mean only that when they're looking at you?
Only after 300 AD did things change for the worse. Then, the church was established, as the First council of Nicea convened, and a "government" was created. After that, things went downhill rather badly: library burnings of 'pagan ideas', the Crusades, Dark Ages... all of that. Christanity went from what was once small groups of followers who feared for their lives of being found out Christian, to statewide mandatory requirement that destroyed all traces of other beliefs.
A more common thread than "Religion is teh evul" is more apt: government will try to stay in power by hook or by crook. The government in this case defines a religion.
---Anyone that believes in a "religion" that professes non-sense like heaven or an after-life without any supporting real and verifiable proof is an idiot. Sorry to you believers, but you are fools of the worst kind and your belief or your support of such beliefs supports those who are far more radical than yourselves.
Perhaps, the idea that you will return to be worm food comforts you, but I know many weak people who couldn't stand to think of that. Frankly, if somebody needs to believe that some earthly (or non-earthly) part goes somewhere else and does something to continue them, so be it. That is one major thing that all religion-systems have belief in: what happens after death.
I frankly am not going to tell somebody that their idea what happens after death is stupid just because I can handle the truth (mmm worm food). I'd rather have friends than be "right".
So, only books count as content in your world? I see many a ways to make content that builds upon others, expanding all. Cooperation is almost always better than competition, except in cases that all sides gain from ones work. Consider it, if you will, a challenge of ideologies: a Vi vs Emacs, or KDE vs Gnome, or KOffice vs OppenOffice.. Advancements in one lead to advancements in all, at the detriment of none.
And, I guess we can't count on creators to make content freely available, can we? Something about Trent Reznor rings a bell.. or that sci-fi publisher that gives books out online.. or a multitude of short story writers that freely write because they enjoy telling a story... These people most assuredly do not exist.
True, we do enjoy eating, but people who have that need to create will do so, monetarily or not. It is our best interest that they continue to do so, without the parasites that live upon them currently.
Then we need to create a segregated community: their content and Our content.
Copyright is on their side, as it is on ours. The GPL is one answer, in terms of software and documents. Other viral-like licenses also spread that openness of the gated community. "If you accept our free work, you must do the same."
The other half is thus copyright statements: Sue the corporate bastards when they do violate the GPL (and thus, copyright). What is it again... 750$-35000$ per violation? Up to 150000$ per for intentional misuse?
If the corporate copyrighters want to play, let us play too. When they distribute our (collective) works on CD's or DVD's, we need to strike at them as hard as we can.
For starters, DRM is beaten by cracking, and these guys are smart.
Secondly, "in-tuh-lectu-all property" in China doesnt mean squat, and there's nothing you can do to change that. That's a Chinese decision that they have to come to terms to. If they dont, then you all can punish them by not migrating software to Mandarin. You arent going to fix another government when they dont want to be fixed.
And lastly.. I thought you all could punish the stores that sell bootlegs. Copyright allows that kind of violation, doesnt it? If ol Mal-Wart starts selling your game but bought a bunch of rip-off disks, sue them for the 750$-35000$ per copy, just like the music industry is doing;) (yeah, tounge in cheek).
Happiness is also getting superior customer service with being treated like a customer (as opposed to thief).
If it comes down for me to make a decision about getting some media and I can either pay for crippled set or download high quality free set, which do you think I'll get?
This bugfix is easily regressed, and has already been done.
If somebody wants to stick with a buggy kernel, they can use an older version of GCC. It's not like older stable ones put out horrible binary or anything (we need to exempt RH using 2.96, cause that was ages ago).
---Of course the problem with analogies is that they can fail. No one wants the Microsoft solution where applications need to be certified to run. This might be equivalent to the bouncer calling the club owner to see if someone is allowed in. Or having a list where only people on the list are allowed in...
That's the difference. MS wants it so that everybody would have certified in regards to them. In truth, corporate and large private networks would be better off if the owners could have signature checks vs their sig servers, and not to some "not responsible" company elsewhere.
Yes, this leads to a TPM-like network, with one difference: The TPM would be in control of whomever OWNS the computer. This is not the case with our current TPMs.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah. We call those things microkernals. As opposed to fat monolithics.
Course, Linux is that bastard child in between. Monolithic'y when you KNOW you need that scsi card, but plug-in-goodness for that USB toy.
And Debian Stable will continue to be worked upon, security updates and packages.
And frankly, we expect a bug free system. If MS sold damaged goods, I don't see why they shouldnt be required by law to fix them, regardless of 10 years or whatever. Since there is no such thing as bit-rot, MS must have sold broken software.
Unless MS wants to relinquish sorce for WinNT 3.51, 4, win3.1, 95, and all the unsupported OS'es for the community to handle, they should be responsible, EULA or not.
Does a semi with a bumper sticker saying "Not responsible for vehicular homicide" make them immune from prosecution? Does a boiler-plate demand (after the fact, mind you) absolve their legal requirements of fitness?
I didnt think so.
I'm a nerd who recent bought a VPS. 10GB storage, 100GB xfer.
:)
I use SSH to control it. I also use apache with auth on the main page. Nobody gets in unless they can guess the 25 char string for the whopping 3 acccts. They are different than the ssh pwds too.
For my personal bulk downloading, I get stuff at 10-20 MB/s. 1 gig in a minute or so.. After getting, I encrypt EVERYTHING under anonymous names, public keyed to me and friends.
I trained my friends how to use Firefox/foxyproxy, PuTTY, GPG, and linux console.
I think we can both agree that we each have different beliefs. I can respect that.
Whether yours is the ultimate answer, or mine is the ultimate answer.. I don't know. I don't pretend to know. However, I do consider this thought-experiment to be interesting (in a good way).
I do thank you for conversing. It was enlightening.
Creepy Crawler
Then the schools would charge per credit point.
;P
Seriously, we dont need this system... I cant afford it
Heh, nice jokes.
BTW, everything is understandable. If you don't understand something, that just means you didn't put enough time and effort into it.
Oh, differential eq does suck. I had a friend at iupui just drop it at the last possible date cause it was unworkable. The prof was an ass and did "magic math": didnt explain what his steps were.
Our prof here at IUPUC (Dan Rusu) explains everything in terms of proofs and is concise in all he teaches. If you put in the work, you will understand it. And.. if you dont, he's available all the time to help. I've even got help from him with physics work.
I do thank you for answering. I didn't think you would due to the oldness of this slashdot article. I'll give a bit more reasoning behind my question (some of which were flamebait-ish).
1. I study, and will minor in anthropology (major in electrical engineering). You couldn't believe how many belief systems there are out there, and the varied attributes given to each. Some wish for converts, while others deign people emulating their religion (native americans do not want followers- aka white guys).
Nearly every religion says that they are right, and all others are wrong, while dismissing to $evil_place those who do not believe. I choose to reject any religion that attempts to condemn me for any arbitrary reason.
My experience with Christianity: I was raised Catholic, and well versed with the faith, along with the church's history through the ages. I have studied the lost works of the Bible, including why the Catholics decided to erase them (Gnostics and other pre 300ad groups). I also have a good friend who I discuss religious issues with. He's soon to be a PhD in Catholic studies through St. Meinrad.
What I choose to question is after careful deliberation on "why".
2. My basis for this question is it compares the schism between Hindusim and Buddhism. Buddhism came from Hinduism and its pantheon of gods. Buddhists had to come to terms what exactly these beings were: They were delusional entities that were of higher planes of existence, yet did not embody perfection.
I also directly question the acts the Old Testament God did: we would call them acts of genocide and serial murderer. I do not party with criminals, as I do not want to associate with them. The same could be said for Old Testament God. I reject his light, as it is a false light of hate, intolerance, injustice: I would call these evil.
The New Testament comes from a completely different viewpoint: that of loving-kindness. One is required to love and be kind to all others, regardless of any differences. One is required to not challenge evil. Instead of the 10 Commandments, we have the Beatitudes. Instead of a great powerful and rich king, we have a pauper who was born with animals, who shows by compassion alone how to be greater than any other living king.
3. Catholics teach that many stories in the Bible are figurative ways to describe to older generations creation myths that do not include science. For example, we do not believe that Genesis happened (we do accept the theories of solar system genesis), but was a figurative way to explain God doing something hat we couldn't see.
I do not accept that Genesis happened in any way mentioned in the Bible, as I am a scientist. Evidence indicates that the earth has been here much longer than a few thousand years, however God could have created it that way (viewpoint mentioned in "Job: A Comedy of Errors" - Heinlein). Still, what are alliterations and what are not?
When one studies the Synaptic Gospels, one can refer to older works of transcription found in the 1500's, the 1300's, the 1000's, 600's, and earlier. One can even trace what priest placed what passage in any arbitrary book. For example, the story of the adulteress by the well seems to have been created in 1100. I cannot find the academic paper that outlines this (right now, no access to scholastic journals from where I am).
It is said that the act of God makes sure that all copies of the Bible are inspired, no.. written by God. Why then, are there errors and insertions of false content? How can I trust anything, whether it be a description of a more complex event, or outright fake? That's my quarrel.
5. But I have found hatred and intolerance everywhere I go.. except one place. That one place is a Buddhist temple. They seek to extinguish hate, intolerance... craving. Every church I have been to threatens, either directly or indirectly, that you will go to hell if you don't follow us. I have heard this time and time again, phrased in parables and in sermons, and in lectures.
I speak for myself, but many listen.
1. Why would I want to be subservient to a God (in particular, Your god)?
2. How do I know that this God isn't delusional and thinks of himself as a God? He has shown temper-tantrums in the past, if they are to be believed. Many died due to them.
3.Christianity in its roots seems to duplicate many parts of Buddhism. Why Christianity rather than Buddhism, or atheism?
4.Why do many those who call Christians, are also so bloodthirsty? Were you all not followers of a man of peace?
5.Why would I want to become acquainted with people who down the ages have been as brutal as the rest of the "heathens"?
6.(optional) If you are Jehova's Witness, do you think you're one of the 144,000? Why would I accept any kind of fate that would have me pitted against a fellow man?
When Christians get insulted by the mass media, they're expected to grin and bear it.
When Jews get insulted by the mass media, they're expected to grin and bear it.
When Muslims get insulted by mass media, they burn flags, blow up embassies, rampage cities, and other uncouth behaviors that show they have the controls of a 3 year old. I know many 3 year olds that throw tantrums when angry. And the parents dont listen to them either. Sadfully, those countries have no "parent" that can appropriately discipline them, as they need to be.
The problem isnt our media, or the other religions. The problem is the Muslims and what their imams have done to their societies. I see no reason why we should deal with their ilk until they can cooperate on a peaceful level. Even the Irish Republican Army saw that.
---Make no mistake, the resurgence of *any* religion is the end of progress or people toward freedom. All religion is about control. All religion is about hate. All religion is about making the peasants suffer in quiet while they dream of a better after-life.
It is? Christianity originally was a religion of peace and subservience. Go back and read (critically) the books of the Gospels: what other meanings does Matthew 5:39 have? It tells to not resist evil. The Pentarch discusses how to treat non-Jews, but the Gospels tells how to treat everybody. Or, does "love one another" mean only that when they're looking at you?
Only after 300 AD did things change for the worse. Then, the church was established, as the First council of Nicea convened, and a "government" was created. After that, things went downhill rather badly: library burnings of 'pagan ideas', the Crusades, Dark Ages... all of that. Christanity went from what was once small groups of followers who feared for their lives of being found out Christian, to statewide mandatory requirement that destroyed all traces of other beliefs.
A more common thread than "Religion is teh evul" is more apt: government will try to stay in power by hook or by crook. The government in this case defines a religion.
---Anyone that believes in a "religion" that professes non-sense like heaven or an after-life without any supporting real and verifiable proof is an idiot. Sorry to you believers, but you are fools of the worst kind and your belief or your support of such beliefs supports those who are far more radical than yourselves.
Perhaps, the idea that you will return to be worm food comforts you, but I know many weak people who couldn't stand to think of that. Frankly, if somebody needs to believe that some earthly (or non-earthly) part goes somewhere else and does something to continue them, so be it. That is one major thing that all religion-systems have belief in: what happens after death.
I frankly am not going to tell somebody that their idea what happens after death is stupid just because I can handle the truth (mmm worm food). I'd rather have friends than be "right".
How sad you must be..
So, only books count as content in your world? I see many a ways to make content that builds upon others, expanding all. Cooperation is almost always better than competition, except in cases that all sides gain from ones work. Consider it, if you will, a challenge of ideologies: a Vi vs Emacs, or KDE vs Gnome, or KOffice vs OppenOffice.. Advancements in one lead to advancements in all, at the detriment of none.
And, I guess we can't count on creators to make content freely available, can we? Something about Trent Reznor rings a bell.. or that sci-fi publisher that gives books out online.. or a multitude of short story writers that freely write because they enjoy telling a story... These people most assuredly do not exist.
True, we do enjoy eating, but people who have that need to create will do so, monetarily or not. It is our best interest that they continue to do so, without the parasites that live upon them currently.
Then we need to create a segregated community: their content and Our content.
Copyright is on their side, as it is on ours. The GPL is one answer, in terms of software and documents. Other viral-like licenses also spread that openness of the gated community. "If you accept our free work, you must do the same."
The other half is thus copyright statements: Sue the corporate bastards when they do violate the GPL (and thus, copyright). What is it again... 750$-35000$ per violation? Up to 150000$ per for intentional misuse?
If the corporate copyrighters want to play, let us play too. When they distribute our (collective) works on CD's or DVD's, we need to strike at them as hard as we can.
In cases of steam, the company has control whether you can run what you paid for or not.
They can also de-activate you for any reason (EULA garbage). I do not trust them, or any of their methods.
I abide by First Sale Doctrine, and I expect all products that I buy do the same. If I cant transfer at will, it is worthless.
For starters, DRM is beaten by cracking, and these guys are smart.
;) (yeah, tounge in cheek).
Secondly, "in-tuh-lectu-all property" in China doesnt mean squat, and there's nothing you can do to change that. That's a Chinese decision that they have to come to terms to. If they dont, then you all can punish them by not migrating software to Mandarin. You arent going to fix another government when they dont want to be fixed.
And lastly.. I thought you all could punish the stores that sell bootlegs. Copyright allows that kind of violation, doesnt it? If ol Mal-Wart starts selling your game but bought a bunch of rip-off disks, sue them for the 750$-35000$ per copy, just like the music industry is doing
Hmm. Variable content length (5-20 minutes) and a 5-15 second ad that ties into said discussion.
Easy to watch, and a pain in the ass to remove. The AD companies get their stream of revenue, and we get our content. Win-win.. it seems.
Happiness for getting schwag is one thing.
Happiness is also getting superior customer service with being treated like a customer (as opposed to thief).
If it comes down for me to make a decision about getting some media and I can either pay for crippled set or download high quality free set, which do you think I'll get?
If you treat me like a thief, I'm'a gonna do it.
The view is one thing. New York doesn't even have volunteer "trash pickers" or anything. It's like the ghetto, but in nature, compared to Canada.
Over-reacting a bit, arent we?
This bugfix is easily regressed, and has already been done.
If somebody wants to stick with a buggy kernel, they can use an older version of GCC. It's not like older stable ones put out horrible binary or anything (we need to exempt RH using 2.96, cause that was ages ago).
---That's what happens when you don't clear that STD...
And the answer is to.... use condoms?
And I thought we were here discussing bugs between GCC and LK.
Who said the lawmakers missed anything?
What does the "Microsoft" logo do to you (down there)?
Then my next question: I did not think that scripts written for MSWindows Office were compatible with OSX-MS Office.
So, they are compatible?
---Of course the problem with analogies is that they can fail. No one wants the Microsoft solution where applications need to be certified to run. This might be equivalent to the bouncer calling the club owner to see if someone is allowed in. Or having a list where only people on the list are allowed in...
That's the difference. MS wants it so that everybody would have certified in regards to them. In truth, corporate and large private networks would be better off if the owners could have signature checks vs their sig servers, and not to some "not responsible" company elsewhere.
Yes, this leads to a TPM-like network, with one difference: The TPM would be in control of whomever OWNS the computer. This is not the case with our current TPMs.
Good luck getting cheap components so that older machines can run..
Or can you buy video cards the rest of us can buy, at the prices everybody else expect?