Re:[Sigh]... Still waiting for bulk loading...
on
PostgreSQL 8.4 Out
·
· Score: 1
I thoroughly agree with your second paragraph. And obviously large data loads can suck total ass.:-(
Re:[Sigh]... Still waiting for bulk loading...
on
PostgreSQL 8.4 Out
·
· Score: 1
While I see your point of view (to an extent), I have to disagree with you on most all points:
1) It only takes one UCV in millions of rows to ruin the load. Also, the data may come from another source, and it may be dirty with UCV when we got it. 2) The field(s) is/are marked UNIQUE - and they are supposed to be. We know this. 3) I whole-heartedly agree with PG protecting the table from violations and faults, but I am telling PG ***exactly*** how to handle the fault. Either:
a) Keep the old and IGNORE the new
b) REPLACE the old with the new or
c) INSERT All or nothing - the current default (well... only) behavior
*) I suppose there is a (d) here: "If the row has a created_at value older than 8 days and the qty_sold is 10 but the completed_flg is false then replace the row else..."
But then, of course, your really are getting into application logic. (a) - (c) are simply, DB oriented actions.
After any one of these, I expect - heck, I am *demanding* - the constraints to be in full effect. But I would like a choice as to how the faults are handled.
4) If they lose data in a way that is consistent with the constraints and the command (e.g. a row is IGNOREd), that is my fault. I know what I am asking for.
You know, in general, I expect the RDBMS and its rules and constraints to *work for me*; not *me to work for it*.;-) I want the 999,999 new unique rows in the DB. I *want* the 1 UCV kept out (or at least handled properly). Computer, take care of it! Sure, report back to me what was done... but just do it!
But I will agree that "...losing some data in a way that you don't notice... for anything mission-critical is really really bad.";-)
[Sigh]... Still waiting for bulk loading...
on
PostgreSQL 8.4 Out
·
· Score: 1
...comparable to MySQL. I think Postgres kicks MySQL's ass (to the extent that DBMSes have asses) in almost every respect.
But MySQL wipes the floor with PG when it comes to bulk loading data with possible unique constraint violations.
INSERT IGNORE, INSERT REPLACE, and the mysqlimport CLI command wrapping those statements make life soooooooooo much easier when one has to deal with millions and millions of overlapping rows.
The typical workaround offered in the PG community is always a clumsy combination of temp tables, rules, triggers, seances and goat sacrifice, usually ending with the phrase, "See? Simple really!".
I think the addition of convenient bulk loading tools could be a game changer for potential enterprise users, or anyone loading high volumes of data.
Ever live in Japan? There is simply no room for keeping all your old stuff.
Incidentally, when I was there in 1987-88 there was a Japan Times article about people (usu. us gaijin) furnishing there entire apt with stuff from the gomi, i.e. trash on the curb. We're talking fully functional stereo equipment - simply because the old owners had no room to keep old stuff around.
I've already been through at least 20 trying to get the feel for one
Well, would you rather try at least 20 choices to find one you like or be stuck with one default that you absolutely don't like.
there should be one, DEFAULT, good looking and very user friendly one out there
There should be a clean, cheap alternative energy to crude oil. There should be a cure for cancer and AIDS and a dozen other ailments. There should be a fridge full o' beer in my garage right now...
But there ain't...
As for me, I've made my choices:
KDE for heavy;
IceWM for light.
I do basically the same thing. I usually install RPMs on my Mandrake sys, but when I need something for which no good rpm exists, I put it under/opt (/opt/graft actually) and link it in. Used to use stow, but now I use graft which I think is a little nicer.
Well, along those lines is the driver at http://www.homepna.org/support/faqs.asp#FAQ6_Q1
the only "working" (I use the term loosely) Linux driver for HPNA? It sucks, sucks, sucks. Not maintained and not fully opened. I get a tainted kernel that panics from time to time... I'd use CAT5 ether if I could (sigh)
Apparently we only rate a half-assed token driver... )-;
I think you should redirect your resentment away from the commenter and towards the current system as well as some media generated perception (even though I do hate the "blame the media" crutch). MDs are indeed highly trained pros expending much time and money to get to that point, and their treatment is often NOT commensurate with their stature. Rather they are often herded towards the "drone" end of things as the poster said.
Then there are the other forces at work, the MDs archenemy - the... LAWYER! (not to mention the dreaded HMO). I live in MS and things seem to have really hit the fan here between Medicaid and tort reform. Doctors here are dropping procedures left and right because of liability concerns. Insurance is just too high due to lawsuits. Medicaid also doesn't fully reimburse for care. Soon you won't be able to have an appendectomy in the state at all - and lawyers don't do appendectomies (only walletectomies).
A little of this may be hype, but the point is lately medecine doesn't seem to be all it was once cracked up to be. I think this is kind of the point of the original post.
DISCLOSURE: I am IT, not MD. My dad is a ret VA path tho
PS - remember the Seinfeld episode with the dermatologist: Pimple popper, MD?;-)
While I do second that general idea, I don't necessarily think the poster was equating value and money.
However I do think he contradicted himself - or at least neglected a very obvious point:
Closed / Open source has VERY MUCH of a bearing.
Open source represents accessibility and this accessibility is very valuable - part of the said "greater value", I believe. It offers the potential for the user to customize the given software to his specific needs and therefore boost production/efficiency/what-have-you, and ultimately the bottom-line.
Microsoft or Sun or whoever simply cannot deliver that kind of tailored functionality on a per company basis.
Frankly, I think this is absolutely critical. I'd like to use a nice GUI mail client most of the time but there are times when I want or need to access mail via a console client, namely pine. But I have yet to find a good GUI client that plays nice with pine. Each one either insists on putting its own meta-crap in with the mail hierarchy or doesn't support pine's dir system. I tried a recent kmail version a few months ago and it was a COMPLETE disaster. Kmail missed several nested folders and pine was hosed by kmail's rearrangments. I'd like to see a "kpine" GUI app. More generally, I would settle for a GUI/console client pair with a common storage hierarchy - so much the better if it is a well-known standard.
A client that totally rearranges the backend in its own special way seems very... Microsoftian.
The Yahoo! stuff will be a moot point come 24 Apr. when POP3 access ends... )-;
> I have a feeling that because of these olypmics
> however, you're not going to see another
> olypmics that doesn't occur within 10hrs of LA
> (eg limiting it to the Americas, Europe, Africa, > and Western Asia.)
>
Well, the favorite for the 2008 games is Beijing and Osaka is also making a strong bid so, yes we probably will see another like this. How NBC (or whoever decides to cough up the gazillion dollars for rights) decides to present is anyone's guess...
Chosing a license it about expressing what one wants to achieve with the to-be-released-code.
and
RMS's argument of course it that all software should be free. So this is a no-brainer for him. Maybe someday even he will find out that there is not only black and white, but shades of gray. Commercialsoftware has its place and is not illegal:-)
This is what pisses me off about RMS - he wants the GPL to be the ONLY license (correct?). Where is the freedom in that? Despite the whining of the GPL zealots on/., I still have a myriad of licenses to choose from in order to suit my needs and wants. And wasn't freedom of choice one of the driving forces behind Linux's creation in the first place?
BTW: How does it come that an organisation like the FSF who promotes free software (like in "free speach") has a page up, were they try to tell you which words you have to use, and should not use? Free speach, but only for them, ey? We, the unwashed masses, have to follow their definitions? Strange understanding of freedom!
Absolutely. Many (not all) on/. take the definition of freedom as a cut and dried absolute, but there are many parties involved (developers, users, distributors, etc.). More freedom for some can often mean less freedom for others.
------------------------------------------------ There is no OFF position on the genius switch - David Letterman
Does Red Hat not make huge gobs of money from open source software? Actually they don't - RHAT currently has negative earnings. However the market seems to think that will change having priced them up to the high 200s. I think the corporate jury is still out on open source viability...
> Major League Baseball True but is a monopoly upon which a close eye is kept. When things start going badly in the player/owner struggle, the govt. will bring out this special dispensation and threaten to revoke it. Also IMHO people like the notion of a single national champion rather than an MLB champion AND some "US Baseball" champion. Too bad it's not a true WORLD series though (e.g. Japan too).
> AT&T Long distance is competitive now - though not if they all keep merging!
Local service seems to be headed towards true competition which would motivate the Baby Bells to merge and acquire to diversify and strengthen their positions.
And Lucent is pretty cool - home of Dennis Ritchie!
BTW I am a stockholder in T, BLS, and LU;-)
> Standard Oil Hmmm... remerger problem here too. But there is world competition here: Total, ELF (did they merge?), BP, Royal Dutch Shell. This is a global sector. Also the oil sector (and the chemical sector in general) is not as huge as it used to be. Witness the long due reshuffling of the Dow in favor of the dominant Tech sector including - surprise, surprise - MSFT.
Life is sweet out here on the fringes - the trees are green, the birds are singing, crime is low, beer is cheaper... breathe it in, boys, breathe it in.
Sounds like yer dad would be better off in a trusty Bash shell or a GUI Desktop populated with shell consoles... Have you tried converting him over to the side of goodness and truth?;-) G. B. Smith
Well, considering Linus's philsophy of "release often", there is really never NOT a release. What changes are the claims made about a particular revision. 2.4 will be explicitly proclaimed as a "stable release" (though there are some who argue about the true stability of the even versions - bugs are always being found and fixed). You're welcome to grab the "release" right after feature freeze - if you're feeling brave. Hell, it might even work for you.
...others can make use of the invention as long as the patent has not actually been granted.
But it seems that others would be fools to do so (or be taking a big risk), because when the patent is granted, all their work becomes dependent on someone else's patent, someone who they've antagonized.
Well, isn't that why the words Patent Pending appear on so many products - as a warning to potential coattail riders?
On the contrary, there seems to have been plenty of stockholder lawsuits against their companies. Admittedly I have no data about the outcome handy.
As for your Apples vs. Oranges example, if you can show that Apple Corp. (not the one in Cupertino!) management was grossly incompetent in their business strategy (or lack thereof) for competing against Orange Co. then perhaps you might have a case. Of course, surely you would do this as a last resort - ousting the board at the shareholders' meeting would be a better option. BUT, America - land of the lawsuit...
Slashdot Mirror
I thoroughly agree with your second paragraph. And obviously large data loads can suck total ass. :-(
While I see your point of view (to an extent), I have to disagree with you on most all points:
1) It only takes one UCV in millions of rows to ruin the load. Also, the data may come from another source, and it may be dirty with UCV when we got it.
2) The field(s) is/are marked UNIQUE - and they are supposed to be. We know this.
3) I whole-heartedly agree with PG protecting the table from violations and faults, but I am telling PG ***exactly*** how to handle the fault. Either:
a) Keep the old and IGNORE the new
b) REPLACE the old with the new or
c) INSERT All or nothing - the current default (well... only) behavior
*) I suppose there is a (d) here: "If the row has a created_at value older than 8 days and the qty_sold is 10 but the completed_flg is false then replace the row else..."
But then, of course, your really are getting into application logic. (a) - (c) are simply, DB oriented actions.
After any one of these, I expect - heck, I am *demanding* - the constraints to be in full effect. But I would like a choice as to how the faults are handled.
4) If they lose data in a way that is consistent with the constraints and the command (e.g. a row is IGNOREd), that is my fault. I know what I am asking for.
You know, in general, I expect the RDBMS and its rules and constraints to *work for me*; not *me to work for it*. ;-) I want the 999,999 new unique rows in the DB. I *want* the 1 UCV kept out (or at least handled properly). Computer, take care of it! Sure, report back to me what was done... but just do it!
But I will agree that "...losing some data in a way that you don't notice... for anything mission-critical is really really bad." ;-)
I think the addition of convenient bulk loading tools could be a game changer for potential enterprise users, or anyone loading high volumes of data.
Clerks 2: Electric Boogaloo
Ever live in Japan? There is simply no room for keeping all your old stuff. Incidentally, when I was there in 1987-88 there was a Japan Times article about people (usu. us gaijin) furnishing there entire apt with stuff from the gomi, i.e. trash on the curb. We're talking fully functional stereo equipment - simply because the old owners had no room to keep old stuff around.
Well, would you rather try at least 20 choices to find one you like or be stuck with one default that you absolutely don't like.
there should be one, DEFAULT, good looking and very user friendly one out there
There should be a clean, cheap alternative energy to crude oil. There should be a cure for cancer and AIDS and a dozen other ailments. There should be a fridge full o' beer in my garage right now...
But there ain't...
As for me, I've made my choices: KDE for heavy; IceWM for light.I do basically the same thing. I usually install RPMs on my Mandrake sys, but when I need something for which no good rpm exists, I put it under /opt (/opt/graft actually) and link it in. Used to use stow, but now I use graft
which I think is a little nicer.
Well, along those lines is the driver at
http://www.homepna.org/support/faqs.asp#FAQ6_Q1
the only "working" (I use the term loosely) Linux driver for HPNA? It sucks, sucks, sucks. Not maintained and not fully opened. I get a tainted kernel that panics from time to time... I'd use CAT5 ether if I could (sigh)
Apparently we only rate a half-assed token driver... )-;
I think you should redirect your resentment away from the commenter and towards the current system as well as some media generated perception (even though I do hate the "blame the media" crutch). MDs are indeed highly trained pros expending much time and money to get to that point, and their treatment is often NOT commensurate with their stature. Rather they are often herded towards the "drone" end of things as the poster said.
;-)
Then there are the other forces at work, the MDs archenemy - the... LAWYER! (not to mention the dreaded HMO). I live in MS and things seem to have really hit the fan here between Medicaid and tort reform. Doctors here are dropping procedures left and right because of liability concerns. Insurance is just too high due to lawsuits. Medicaid also doesn't fully reimburse for care. Soon you won't be able to have an appendectomy in the state at all - and lawyers don't do appendectomies (only walletectomies).
A little of this may be hype, but the point is lately medecine doesn't seem to be all it was once cracked up to be. I think this is kind of the point of the original post.
DISCLOSURE: I am IT, not MD. My dad is a ret VA path tho
PS - remember the Seinfeld episode with the dermatologist: Pimple popper, MD?
While I do second that general idea, I don't necessarily think the poster was equating value and money.
However I do think he contradicted himself - or at least neglected a very obvious point:
Closed / Open source has VERY MUCH of a bearing.
Open source represents accessibility and this accessibility is very valuable - part of the said "greater value", I believe. It offers the potential for the user to customize the given software to his specific needs and therefore boost production/efficiency/what-have-you, and ultimately the bottom-line.
Microsoft or Sun or whoever simply cannot deliver that kind of tailored functionality on a per company basis.
Openness is value.
Frankly, I think this is absolutely critical. I'd like to use a nice GUI mail client most of the time but there are times when I want or need to access mail via a console client, namely pine. But I have yet to find a good GUI client that plays nice with pine. Each one either insists on putting its own meta-crap in with the mail hierarchy or doesn't support pine's dir system. I tried a recent kmail version a few months ago and it was a COMPLETE disaster. Kmail missed several nested folders and pine was hosed by kmail's rearrangments. I'd like to see a "kpine" GUI app. More generally, I would settle for a GUI/console client pair with a common storage hierarchy - so much the better if it is a well-known standard.
A client that totally rearranges the backend in its own special way seems very... Microsoftian.
The Yahoo! stuff will be a moot point come 24 Apr. when POP3 access ends... )-;
Ooooo.... look at it spin... it spins so fast it's like it's standing still! Aaahhhh... I could watch this all... of 5 seconds.
Back to work.
Sounds like an incredible waste of time - even for a seemingly nifty hack.
He is NOT dead. He is merely embarking on a lunch break of epic proportions... he will be back to put in a good afternoon's work...
Moreover, what has the world come to when the Kingsport, TN schools are being run out of Bumsville, ID!?! ;-)
GBS
> I have a feeling that because of these olypmics
> however, you're not going to see another
> olypmics that doesn't occur within 10hrs of LA
> (eg limiting it to the Americas, Europe, Africa, > and Western Asia.)
>
Well, the favorite for the 2008 games is Beijing and Osaka is also making a strong bid so, yes we probably will see another like this. How NBC (or whoever decides to cough up the gazillion dollars for rights) decides to present is anyone's guess...
G B Smith
and
RMS's argument of course it that all software should be free. So this is a no-brainer for him. Maybe someday even he will find out that there is not only black and white, but shades of gray. Commercialsoftware has its place and is not illegal :-)
This is what pisses me off about RMS - he wants the GPL to be the ONLY license (correct?). Where is the freedom in that? Despite the whining of the GPL zealots on /., I still have a myriad of licenses to choose from in order to suit my needs and wants. And wasn't freedom of choice one of the driving forces behind Linux's creation in the first place?
BTW: How does it come that an organisation like the FSF who promotes free software (like in "free speach") has a page up, were they try to tell you which words you have to use, and should not use? Free speach, but only for them, ey? We, the unwashed masses, have to follow their definitions? Strange understanding of freedom!
Absolutely. Many (not all) on /. take the definition of freedom as a cut and dried absolute, but there are many parties involved (developers, users, distributors, etc.). More freedom for some can often mean less freedom for others.
------------------------------------------------
There is no OFF position on the genius switch - David Letterman
Does Red Hat not make huge gobs of money from open source software? Actually they don't - RHAT currently has negative earnings. However the market seems to think that will change having priced them up to the high 200s. I think the corporate jury is still out on open source viability...
> Major League Baseball
;-)
True but is a monopoly upon which a close eye is kept. When things start going badly in the player/owner struggle, the govt. will bring out this special dispensation and threaten to revoke it. Also IMHO people like the notion of a single national champion rather than an MLB champion AND some "US Baseball" champion. Too bad it's not a true WORLD series though (e.g. Japan too).
> AT&T
Long distance is competitive now - though not if they all keep merging!
Local service seems to be headed towards true competition which would motivate the Baby Bells to merge and acquire to diversify and strengthen their positions.
And Lucent is pretty cool - home of Dennis Ritchie!
BTW I am a stockholder in T, BLS, and LU
> Standard Oil
Hmmm... remerger problem here too. But there is world competition here: Total, ELF (did they merge?), BP, Royal Dutch Shell. This is a global sector. Also the oil sector (and the chemical sector in general) is not as huge as it used to be. Witness the long due reshuffling of the Dow in favor of the dominant Tech sector including - surprise, surprise - MSFT.
Life is sweet out here on the fringes - the trees are green, the birds are singing, crime is low, beer is cheaper... breathe it in, boys, breathe it in.
Sounds like yer dad would be better off in a trusty Bash shell or a GUI Desktop populated with shell consoles... Have you tried converting him over to the side of goodness and truth? ;-) G. B. Smith
Well, considering Linus's philsophy of "release often", there is really never NOT a release. What changes are the claims made about a particular revision. 2.4 will be explicitly proclaimed as a "stable release" (though there are some who argue about the true stability of the even versions - bugs are always being found and fixed). You're welcome to grab the "release" right after feature freeze - if you're feeling brave. Hell, it might even work for you.
Just a thought...
Stripped down to what?! A diskless workstation?
But it seems that others would be fools to do so (or be taking a big risk), because when the patent is granted, all their work becomes dependent on someone else's patent, someone who they've antagonized.
Well, isn't that why the words Patent Pending appear on so many products - as a warning to potential coattail riders?
MMmmmmm...meatballs...Homer wants meatballs...
On the contrary, there seems to have been plenty of stockholder lawsuits against their companies. Admittedly I have no data about the outcome handy.
As for your Apples vs. Oranges example, if you can show that Apple Corp. (not the one in Cupertino!) management was grossly incompetent in their business strategy (or lack thereof) for competing against Orange Co. then perhaps you might have a case. Of course, surely you would do this as a last resort - ousting the board at the shareholders' meeting would be a better option. BUT, America - land of the lawsuit...