I get a little annoyed when good people are treated like shit on purpose.
and the line of entry level animators was so long at the door, that nobody had any feeling they'd be hard to replace.
Because to management, it is only about how much they have to pay. Quality and loyalty to the people who make a uniquely valuable product are meaningless. This is happening throughout the professional world. It's wrong. It has always been wrong, and it will continue to be wrong.
Entry-level animators don't work at Disney. (Then again, no animators work at Disney) Entry-level animators don't make nine figures at the box office.
if you allow yourself be considered part of an available pool, you're a commodity item not an individual with value.
If people who make billion-dollar products don't have value, then I submit everyone who earns a wage is worthless.
I'm sure you can make the same sort of statement on behalf of Microsoft engineers who have worked on Windows and Office for six or more years.
Yeah, if Microsoft had an eight-decade tradition of craftsmanship, and if Windows and Office were blank-sheet-of-paper rebuilt every two years. Thanks for changing the subject since on the original point I'm right and there is no argument to be made otherwise.
Or maybe, their employer's dominant position and awesome marketing resources helped just a tad?
Prior to The Little Mermaid, Disney animation was so far in a hole they had to air mail them light. Disney management fought against making the Little Mermaid for years. (Hundreds of millions) They fought against making Lilo and Stitch for ten years. (Hundreds of millions) They could have bought Pixar for a couple million dollars and didn't. (Billions) They could have owned Survivor and passed. (Billions) They could have made the Lord of the Rings trilogy and passed. (Six billion box office, 17 Academy Awards)
And then they fired their entire animation division, only to replace it a few years later at a cost of seven BILLION dollars.
THEY COULDN'T PAY THE PEOPLE WHO GENERATED BILLIONS IN REVENUE THEIR SALARIES AND CONTINUED TO EMPLOY THEM BUT THEY HAD NO PROBLEM WRITING A TEN-FIGURE CHECK TO BUY SOME OTHER ANIMATION COMPANY.
Yet, to believe people in this discussion, Disney management can do no wrong! The animators were fired. Must have been their fault. They were a "commodity."
If Disney had hired people to stuff cash into a toilet 24 hours a day instead, it would have saved them money.
...failed to convince Disney that they were not a commodity
And Disney was wrong. There is no such thing as a "commodity" Disney animator. That's like saying there are "commodity" test pilots, or "commodity" neurosurgeons or "commodity" astronauts. They cannot be replaced by anyone upon this green spinning Earth. Understand?
in their skills.
The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Lilo and Stitch, Pocahontas, Mulan, Lion King. That's about three billion in domestic box office. Anyone else in the U.S. market that can do that? Nope.
Still, they sold themselves to Disney by the pound rather than as people.
What the fuck?
They failed to convince Disney that they couldn't be replaced with CGI for less money.
So it's "reduce costs no matter how much it damages the company or its people," huh? Is that how it works now? Because if that's the case NOBODY has a job. These people were PERSONALLY AND DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TOP-LINE REVENUE and then they were FIRED.
Now the next obvious shovel-load of horseshit from the conference room will be that "2D animation isn't profitable any more." Gee, there's 400 studios in Japan that seem to be doing just fine. In fact, I can list ten billion-dollar animation franchises that had to be subtitled so they could be sold in the U.S. ALL TEN are 2D.
And don't give me Pixar either. The combined merchandising and licensing revenue from those top ten franchises could buy and sell Pixar eight times before Corn Flakes.
Be the best at something -- even if its a small thing, or a less popular thing -- and you will be in demand for that.
Disney fired 4000 animators who were the best in the world. Absolutely irreplaceable. Like astronauts. They cannot be replaced. Ever. Responsible for well over NINE FIGURES in top-line revenue year over year. Billions in marketing. Billions in merchandising. Billions in foreign box office and DVD sales. Billions in licensing.
Fired.
Careers destroyed along with an 80 year tradition of culture and craftsmanship.
Then Disney spends $7 billion to buy Pixar because they need animation.
ability to think in a deep analytical fashion that starts with looking at the assumptions, curiousity and ability to communicate with good, articulate answers and thoughtful questions.
At which point they will be labeled "non-team-player" and fired.
Can this stuff really be learned?
Nobody knows what it is, so no, it probably can't be learned. Management just wants to play golf with some recently fired homeowner's salary in their pocket.
Yeah, it's always "more skills." Yet management can never quite explain PRECISELY what those skills are. The reason they can't is because it's all a fragrant load of HORSESHIT.
They want to fire people, enjoy their suffering and despair and pocket their salaries. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I know, I know, you didn't think you were going to 6 years of school to help Bob in sales increase the stock value. You thought you were training to make all of your 1337 virtual networks interface in new and creative/exciting ways with the latest database. You were wrong. Nobody cares about your network. Nobody cares about your storage. Nobody cares if you use Linux or Windows.
Nobody cares about degrees.
Nobody cares about work ethic.
Nobody cares about dependability.
Nobody cares about loyalty.
Nobody cares about professionalism.
Nobody cares about craftsmanship.
Nobody cares about education.
Nobody cares about knowledge.
Nobody cares about other people.
Nobody cares about people who get sick.
Nobody cares about people who are hungry.
Nobody cares about people who are suffering.
Nobody cares about people who lost their job for no reason.
Nobody cares about people who lost their home because they lost their job.
But they all care about money.
Is that really what we're working towards? What a cold, corrupt and repulsive world.
Why should you spend $50 grand and 4 years of your life to get a degree with NO FUTURE?!?
Oh, but what should that entitle the graduate to? What, society owes them a job?/sarcasm
When we have all lost faith in the social contract, this will be a very dark place. People better disengage the cranial-rectal interface, like right fuckin' now.
which concludes that the best thing young IT workers can do to avoid being outsourced is beef up their management skills.
Sure! Let's all become donut-stuffing middle managers! Then we can all make the house payments!
Best thing IT workers can do to avoid being outsourced is to reduce their cost of living by moving in to the urine-soaked refrigerator box behind Clem's Seafood Grill at the beach. Don't plan on anything important like health insurance or light. Forget having a family or a home. Just plan on a non-stop string of benefit-less underpaid jobs working for lying fuck rat bastard cheat chair-wedged-ass hairpiece moneygrab space-age-greased greed on wheels. That's the social contract now. Work your ass off getting an education and then get FUCKED OVER UNTIL YOU STARVE OR RETIRE.
This has nothing to do with profits or business. They fire people in order to make them suffer. Management fires people because they can, and it's wrong. Simple as that.
Without foreign suppliers. The U.S. is incapable of providing the necessities for its own population. The manufacturing capacity simply does not exist.
But could someone else (essentially) reverse-engineer your machine, or simply use it a lot, and write their OWN instruction manual?
"Congress shall make no law restricting the freedom of the press."
Sounds simple enough to me.
but I think that seems like it crosses the line of infringement.
Infringement is interfering with the existing market for a published work. Taking someone ELSE's instruction manual and reprinting it commercially is infringement.
but 'user guides' are, I believe, essentially competing with the owners own manuals.
Good, if other countries can do it cheaper, better for all involved.
Sure thing. And when nobody has a job...
they have the highest per-capita incomes anyway.
That becomes false! Three cheers for the picket fence!
Manufacturing was the reason for the high incomes. U.S. don't build shit no more. When you don't build nothing, you don't matter in the economy. Simple as that.
They're working in positions that are designed to be filled by high school and college kids working their resume up for real jobs.
Lie. Businesses say that so they don't have to pay a real wage. "Oh, they don't NEED the money, so we can underpay and not have to explain it." A day's honest work is worth a day's honest wage. Anyone who gets a paycheck has a real job.
If you're an adult and you're working a job that's supposed to be part-time student-work, and expecting that to be a career that pays you a living wage,
You have every right to expect a living wage. From ANY job.
From where did we as a society get this idea that every job is supposed to be a career?
From where did we as a society get this idea that only certain jobs are real jobs? Oh, I know! From greedy asscrack donut-stuffing liar rat fuck cheat cel-phone flipping hairpieces who say "oh, you're a lesser person than me because my car has more fake chrome and rich leather appointments."
What do the career people do all day? Wait, I know the answer. They sit on their ever-widening asses talking about golf next to the air conditioner while they pocket other people's paychecks.
Slashdot Mirror
you seem very personally invested
I get a little annoyed when good people are treated like shit on purpose.
and the line of entry level animators was so long at the door, that nobody had any feeling they'd be hard to replace.
Because to management, it is only about how much they have to pay. Quality and loyalty to the people who make a uniquely valuable product are meaningless. This is happening throughout the professional world. It's wrong. It has always been wrong, and it will continue to be wrong.
Entry-level animators don't work at Disney. (Then again, no animators work at Disney) Entry-level animators don't make nine figures at the box office.
if you allow yourself be considered part of an available pool, you're a commodity item not an individual with value.
If people who make billion-dollar products don't have value, then I submit everyone who earns a wage is worthless.
I'm sure you can make the same sort of statement on behalf of Microsoft engineers who have worked on Windows and Office for six or more years.
Yeah, if Microsoft had an eight-decade tradition of craftsmanship, and if Windows and Office were blank-sheet-of-paper rebuilt every two years. Thanks for changing the subject since on the original point I'm right and there is no argument to be made otherwise.
Or maybe, their employer's dominant position and awesome marketing resources helped just a tad?
Prior to The Little Mermaid, Disney animation was so far in a hole they had to air mail them light. Disney management fought against making the Little Mermaid for years. (Hundreds of millions) They fought against making Lilo and Stitch for ten years. (Hundreds of millions) They could have bought Pixar for a couple million dollars and didn't. (Billions) They could have owned Survivor and passed. (Billions) They could have made the Lord of the Rings trilogy and passed. (Six billion box office, 17 Academy Awards)
And then they fired their entire animation division, only to replace it a few years later at a cost of seven BILLION dollars.
THEY COULDN'T PAY THE PEOPLE WHO GENERATED BILLIONS IN REVENUE THEIR SALARIES AND CONTINUED TO EMPLOY THEM BUT THEY HAD NO PROBLEM WRITING A TEN-FIGURE CHECK TO BUY SOME OTHER ANIMATION COMPANY.
Yet, to believe people in this discussion, Disney management can do no wrong! The animators were fired. Must have been their fault. They were a "commodity."
If Disney had hired people to stuff cash into a toilet 24 hours a day instead, it would have saved them money.
Two words: unwiped. ass.
...failed to convince Disney that they were not a commodity
And Disney was wrong. There is no such thing as a "commodity" Disney animator. That's like saying there are "commodity" test pilots, or "commodity" neurosurgeons or "commodity" astronauts. They cannot be replaced by anyone upon this green spinning Earth. Understand?
in their skills.
The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Lilo and Stitch, Pocahontas, Mulan, Lion King. That's about three billion in domestic box office. Anyone else in the U.S. market that can do that? Nope.
Still, they sold themselves to Disney by the pound rather than as people.
What the fuck?
They failed to convince Disney that they couldn't be replaced with CGI for less money.
So it's "reduce costs no matter how much it damages the company or its people," huh? Is that how it works now? Because if that's the case NOBODY has a job. These people were PERSONALLY AND DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TOP-LINE REVENUE and then they were FIRED.
Now the next obvious shovel-load of horseshit from the conference room will be that "2D animation isn't profitable any more." Gee, there's 400 studios in Japan that seem to be doing just fine. In fact, I can list ten billion-dollar animation franchises that had to be subtitled so they could be sold in the U.S. ALL TEN are 2D.
And don't give me Pixar either. The combined merchandising and licensing revenue from those top ten franchises could buy and sell Pixar eight times before Corn Flakes.
Business in the U.S. is an unwiped ass.
Be the best at something -- even if its a small thing, or a less popular thing -- and you will be in demand for that.
Disney fired 4000 animators who were the best in the world. Absolutely irreplaceable. Like astronauts. They cannot be replaced. Ever. Responsible for well over NINE FIGURES in top-line revenue year over year. Billions in marketing. Billions in merchandising. Billions in foreign box office and DVD sales. Billions in licensing.
Fired.
Careers destroyed along with an 80 year tradition of culture and craftsmanship.
Then Disney spends $7 billion to buy Pixar because they need animation.
So again I say...
Bullshit.
People will always pay for exceptional talent.
Bullshit.
Hey Moderators! We hear you!
WAAAAAH WAAAAH WAHWAHWAHWAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!
I don't agree because I want people to get fucked over!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
I can build 50 karma in two hours. I could give a rat fuck about -1 troll. Thanks for wasting your points.
but corporations have been shitting all over the social contract for years.
I think I said that.
Wal-Mart didn't close this company. Huffy has always made its own decisions.
Wal-Mart made it impossible for Huffy to operate at a profit. Fact. Deal with it.
But it's also 10x as expensive.
You get what you pay for.
And your management doesn't give a rat's behind about secure, stable and efficient code.
Ok folks, if you can't see what's wrong yet, I don't know what to tell you. Want to know the reason everything is so fucked up right now? There it is.
ability to think in a deep analytical fashion that starts with looking at the assumptions, curiousity and ability to communicate with good, articulate answers and thoughtful questions.
At which point they will be labeled "non-team-player" and fired.
Can this stuff really be learned?
Nobody knows what it is, so no, it probably can't be learned. Management just wants to play golf with some recently fired homeowner's salary in their pocket.
Yeah, it's always "more skills." Yet management can never quite explain PRECISELY what those skills are. The reason they can't is because it's all a fragrant load of HORSESHIT.
They want to fire people, enjoy their suffering and despair and pocket their salaries. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I know, I know, you didn't think you were going to 6 years of school to help Bob in sales increase the stock value. You thought you were training to make all of your 1337 virtual networks interface in new and creative/exciting ways with the latest database. You were wrong. Nobody cares about your network. Nobody cares about your storage. Nobody cares if you use Linux or Windows.
Nobody cares about degrees.
Nobody cares about work ethic.
Nobody cares about dependability.
Nobody cares about loyalty.
Nobody cares about professionalism.
Nobody cares about craftsmanship.
Nobody cares about education.
Nobody cares about knowledge.
Nobody cares about other people.
Nobody cares about people who get sick.
Nobody cares about people who are hungry.
Nobody cares about people who are suffering.
Nobody cares about people who lost their job for no reason.
Nobody cares about people who lost their home because they lost their job.
But they all care about money.
Is that really what we're working towards? What a cold, corrupt and repulsive world.
Why should you spend $50 grand and 4 years of your life to get a degree with NO FUTURE?!?
/sarcasm
Oh, but what should that entitle the graduate to? What, society owes them a job?
When we have all lost faith in the social contract, this will be a very dark place. People better disengage the cranial-rectal interface, like right fuckin' now.
which concludes that the best thing young IT workers can do to avoid being outsourced is beef up their management skills.
Sure! Let's all become donut-stuffing middle managers! Then we can all make the house payments!
Best thing IT workers can do to avoid being outsourced is to reduce their cost of living by moving in to the urine-soaked refrigerator box behind Clem's Seafood Grill at the beach. Don't plan on anything important like health insurance or light. Forget having a family or a home. Just plan on a non-stop string of benefit-less underpaid jobs working for lying fuck rat bastard cheat chair-wedged-ass hairpiece moneygrab space-age-greased greed on wheels. That's the social contract now. Work your ass off getting an education and then get FUCKED OVER UNTIL YOU STARVE OR RETIRE.
This has nothing to do with profits or business. They fire people in order to make them suffer. Management fires people because they can, and it's wrong. Simple as that.
I suspect that you and I have a different list of "necessities."
Soap. Textiles. Furniture. Hardware. Tools. Carpet. Appliances. Dishes.
Without foreign suppliers. The U.S. is incapable of providing the necessities for its own population. The manufacturing capacity simply does not exist.
Care to back up the assertion that Wal-Mart is closing "entire towns"?
Two words: Huffy Bicycles
That 50% number is absolute bunk.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees.
People have to make their own decisions on how to use credit.
While we have no problem with confiscatory interest rates.
Oh noes! I R teh trollzorz!
Please waste more mod points. I only have about 28000 karma points.
The articles of incorporation for most companies will include a statement that their purpose is to make a profit.
Purpose and "required by law" are two entirely different things.
The executives and board members have a fiuciary duty to ensure that they do their best to meet the stated purposes of the company.
"Do their best" and "required by law" are two entirely different things.
They have the big factories. They have the shipping infrastructure.
So did the U.S. until Wal-Mart decided they wanted to sell five gallons of pickles for $.99
Truth: The U.S. can't build jack shit any more except reality TV and commercials.
Truth: Without foreign suppliers, the U.S. is incapable of providing its own population's necessities.
A lock code? It'll be hax0r3d. huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort*
There. That should summarize about half of the responses.
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the U.S. is borrowing money to buy products from foreign countries with unemployment checks?
Anyone else bothered by the fact that entire towns are being closed because Wal-Mart says "your product is too expensive?"
Can anyone explain what the fuck "your product is too expensive" has to do with the free market? Isn't "too expensive" the customer's decision?
Anyone bothered by the fact of both record budget and trade deficits while 50% of working-age adults are not employed full-time?
Or is everyone just fine with their neighbors being thrown out of work while they rack up another five figures on the 28% credit card for a plasma TV?
Can anyone tell me what "circling the bowl" means?
This isn't about low low prices. This is about low low standard of living. It sucks and it's getting worse.
But could someone else (essentially) reverse-engineer your machine, or simply use it a lot, and write their OWN instruction manual?
"Congress shall make no law restricting the freedom of the press."
Sounds simple enough to me.
but I think that seems like it crosses the line of infringement.
Infringement is interfering with the existing market for a published work. Taking someone ELSE's instruction manual and reprinting it commercially is infringement.
but 'user guides' are, I believe, essentially competing with the owners own manuals.
Competition is not infringement.
Good, if other countries can do it cheaper, better for all involved.
Sure thing. And when nobody has a job...
they have the highest per-capita incomes anyway.
That becomes false! Three cheers for the picket fence!
Manufacturing was the reason for the high incomes. U.S. don't build shit no more. When you don't build nothing, you don't matter in the economy. Simple as that.
Life is not fair, and never will be.
Fine. Congress passes a law that turns off the electricity at every Wal-Mart in the country.
And when they complain we say "tough shit. Life's not fair."
They're working in positions that are designed to be filled by high school and college kids working their resume up for real jobs.
Lie. Businesses say that so they don't have to pay a real wage. "Oh, they don't NEED the money, so we can underpay and not have to explain it." A day's honest work is worth a day's honest wage. Anyone who gets a paycheck has a real job.
If you're an adult and you're working a job that's supposed to be part-time student-work, and expecting that to be a career that pays you a living wage,
You have every right to expect a living wage. From ANY job.
From where did we as a society get this idea that every job is supposed to be a career?
From where did we as a society get this idea that only certain jobs are real jobs? Oh, I know! From greedy asscrack donut-stuffing liar rat fuck cheat cel-phone flipping hairpieces who say "oh, you're a lesser person than me because my car has more fake chrome and rich leather appointments."
What do the career people do all day? Wait, I know the answer. They sit on their ever-widening asses talking about golf next to the air conditioner while they pocket other people's paychecks.
Yeah, that's a motherfucking career alright!