iPod Update to Address Volume-Level Concerns

aardwolf64 writes "In an apparent response to the hearing loss lawsuit against Apple, the company has released an update to the iPod nano and 5th generation iPod that allows the user to set the maximum volume level. Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount." Apple also has instructions at their site on how to implement the changes

Comments

what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[CrudPuppy]

so when they make it so it's not loud enough to damage hearing, can I sue them for not making it loud enough for hard-of-hearing people to use? (grin)

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[drix]

The conflict I am experiencing right now between moderating you down for be a completely humorless fucking moron and just calling you one, is immense.

Guess I chose B.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[RalphBNumbers]

No, the volume limit is user controlled.

You're still free to use your iPod at deafening levels if you like, it's just easier to avoid doing so without thinking now.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[theStig]

obligatory Simpsons quote.. "Be like the boy... Ok those in the back" "We like Roy!"

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[MightyMartian]

WHAT? Speak up, my ears seem to be bleeding after I listened to Bono singing some crap on my iPod. Is that normal?

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[tambo]

You're still free to use your iPod at deafening levels if you like...

Not if someone has enabled this feature: "Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount."

Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult. Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware.

Of course, it will take the recipients of such devices 0.003 milliseconds to punch "amplified headphones" into RadioShack.com and come up with six hits. They will then tune in at twice the volume as a predictable act of rebellion. So the kids are still deaf, but the parents can shrug and say, "My conscience is clean, and that's what really matters." And of course, they can then sue Radio Shack, and lobby Congress for laws that criminalize the sale of amplified headphones to minors.

And of course #2, this "feature" will undoubtedly manifest primarily as an obstacle and annoyance to (1) people who buy an iPod from eBay but discover that it's been capped at 0.5 decibels, (2) kids whose buddies (or playground bullies) enable this "feature" as a prank, and (3) people who inadvertently trigger this feature and then can't disable it.

I hate the direction our country has taken - and the fact that our technologists have fallen victim to the same pathogenic thinking.

- David Stein

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Anonymous Coward]

That has nothing to do with the volume.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Mattcelt]

Sadly, that's not an iPod-specific phenomenon. (Phenomenon, do-doo do-doo-do, phenomenon, do-doo do-doo!) It generally happens when Bono sings anthing post-Joshua Tree.

Same thing happens with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and anything after "Give it Away".

Now if Apple could fix that with a firmware update, I'd be impressed.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

...lobby Congress for laws that criminalize the sale of amplified headphones to minors.

You already get carded at Wal*Mart if you buy cough syrup or fuel injector cleaner!

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, it will take the recipients of such devices 0.003 milliseconds to punch "amplified headphones" into RadioShack.com and come up with six hits.

And it would have taken you a similarly short time to RTFA, and see the directions Apple provided for reloading your ipod to disable this lock. But you didn't, and the locked-out kids probably won't either (especially considering they'd have to pay for new headphones their stylish white earbuds, not just read a web page).

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[iminplaya]

...another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult. Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware.

I like Ballmer's method better.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize the music on an iPod is just a copy of your iTunes music collection on your computer right?

Replacing the "loss" of all those MP3s would just require hooking your iPod back up to your computer and waiting while it syncs. You probably wouldn't even have to click a single button, unless you set it up to sync manually.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Alaska Jack]

Overreact much?

Seriously, I'm about as libertarian as they come, but your reaction here is way off the scale.

"Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting."

Or a tool that parents can use to help them "actual[ly] parent".

"Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult."

This makes total sense. After all, everyone knows that if you want a kid to do something, all you have to do is talk to them.

"Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware."

Pre-empt whose judgement? You can't mean the parents', because this tool just gives parents an additional choice. You must mean the kids'. But that doesn't make any sense either -- sometimes, pre-empting a kid's immature, inexperienced judgement with your own, hopefully more mature and informed judgement is exactly part of what you call "actual parenting."

Relax, big fella.

    - Alaska Jack

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[CrudPuppy]

I appreciate that someone actually *got* my humor. I really didn't think anyone out there could be dense enough NOT to get it, but the guy who replied proved me wrong =)

seriously, though, I am very hard-of-hearing and need an ipod at about 9/10 volume to get any proper listening experience. glad to hear apple is putting a "limit feature" in rather than simply making them less powerful. the latter would ultimately lead to an unusable product for hard-of-hearing people.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[CaptScarlet22]

Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult.

I don't know how many kids you have, but my 2 never lead on that they are listening what I'm saying to them. They always do the opposite of what I tell them. And if we can get some help, with my wife and I working over 90 hours a week between the both of us, then so be it. Were not always going to be there to tell them what to do. These kind of things don't stop parenting, they help protect kids when parents can't protect them.

Parenting isn't all about telling them what to do, it's a lot about how kids will act when they are not around thier parents...and how they act for the rest of their lives.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[bmgoau]

Could a child who has had his iPod locked simply restore it using the ipod updater software, erasing the code?

I feel painfully sorry for a child whos parents go to such protective lengths, and as such totally agree with the above post.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that everything else seems to be 'iPod-enhanced' these days, is there a hearing aid that you can plug your iPod wire into?

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[glassjaw rocks]

Your bands suck. Long live Between the Buried and Me

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[suwain_2]

Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting.

I'm usually bothered by parents that don't... parent. But I disagree that this is a problem. Of course a good parent would teach them not to blare loud music over headphones. But a good parent would also give their children safe products. There's nothing compelling you to use the product, and you could always reflash the iPod to clear the lock. I liken it to those plastic covers on electrical outlets (so kids can't stick their fingers in), or locks on guns (so kids can't shoot people). Yes, a good parent should also teach their kids not to stick their fingers in electrical outlets, and not to play with guns. (Okay, so a good parent would keep guns where kids couldn't get them in the first place, but I digress.) Using a safety product doesn't mean you're a bad parent.

If kids want to "rebel" by using amplified headphones, that's their problem. Apple has eliminated a potentially serious problem with their product, and they have made it so that, by default, it won't inconvenience you.

As far as your concerns:
(1) The cap isn't permanent. At worst, you'd have to blank the iPod, which is probably something I'd do with a new iPod anyway.
(2) If a bully wants to turn the volume down on my iPod, I'd prefer that to getting beat up. Or to having it stolen.
(3) This is a conceivable problem, though it doesn't look like it's something that's easily set. Even if it is, Apple provides instructions on disabling it.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Gli7ch]

Or we could let them make their own mistakes? To me is seems like a tool of over-parenting rather than parenting-substitution. It's true a kid won't listen to you if you tell them something's bad, but it's also true, as was pointed out before, that if you try to restrict a kid in a way that's unfair in their view, they'll find a way around it, normally in a worse manner. As a child, my mother didn't allow my sister any junk food at all. The problem with this is that eventually my sister WAS exposed to junk food and surprise surprise she would no longer eat anything except junk, and continues to this day (She's now 15) to avoid anything close to real food. Have you even noticed it's the kids with the most restrictive parents that do the most drugs and have the most regrettable one night stands? I have a friend who's a really nice girl until her parents get in to her head for something stupid like failing an exam or coming home for school late, and then suddenly she's drunk on Absynth with some random guy or doing meth with some loser "new friend". Children aren't going to take your word for it that the puppy will bite, but they won't pat it again after it does. Sometimes they have to figure it out for themselves.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Gli7ch]

Crap sorry about lack of paragraphing. Stupid html.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[jesterzog]

Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult. Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware.

I don't see why this is a problem, as long as parents use it sensibly and with the knowledge that it's not failsafe. It's a safety device. Giving parents an ability to control it is even better simply because a lot of children don't yet have the cognitive development, understanding or experience necessary to properly decide what volume level is safe for them.

How is this different from childlocks on car doors, grills in front of fireplaces, bars around children's beds (ie. cots), and a variety of other devices designed to help parents prevent their kids from getting into trouble?

If I was a parent with my own iPod, I'd probably consider setting this simply to cover those situations where the kids might want to borrow it. Sure they can amplify it, but chances are that they won't, and I'd be working on educating them at the same time. It's hardly the same as a parent using a TV as a babysitter and ignoring their child's existance, unless they choose to use it as such.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Card]

kids whose buddies (or playground bullies) enable this "feature" as a prank

It's far more likely that kids would turn the volume to maximum as a prank, in which case this would shield the victim from a potential hearing damage.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Mark Hood]

I know that was a facetious comment, but in Europe all iPods are volume-limited by law.

You can remove the hardcoded limit (it's a parameter in the Firmware, I believe) with this handy-dandy application.

Note that what Apple have just released is a user-settable max level, what I'm referring to is one that you would never know existed in normal operation (except that you can't hear things as well).

Mark

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[linhux]

No, the iPod operating system is on its own partition on the iPod hard disk (or flash memory, on Nano), separate from your MP3's. So you can usually just rewrite that partition without touching your music collection. This is why you can play around with installing Linux and whatnot without having to worry about messing up things too much.

And, besides, as others have pointed out, the way iPod/iTunes works is that it's a copy of your music library on your computer, so even if you wipe the entire hard drive for some reason, it will get re-copied there the next time you sync with iTunes.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[GrahamCox]

discover that it's been capped at 0.5 decibels

OK, pedantry mode on. Decibels are a ratiometric value, so what does 0.5 decibels mean? Nothing, that's what. And since decibels are a logarithmic measure, 0.5 decibels (less than the normal full output, say) is actually hardly anything - certainly not a difference you could hear. If you're going to bandy around technical terms, at least understand what they mean.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[drewsome]

I'm all for letting kids make their own mistakes, but my seven year old doesn't have the judgement to know whether or not he's damaging his ear-drums. When he was four, he didn't have the judgement to not play in traffic. When he's fifteen, he may not have the judgement to do something that I haven't even thought of yet. Your four-, seven- and fifteen-year-olds may vary.

Parenting is about setting boundaries, and implementing discipline when those boundaries are violated. Parenting is _also_ about learning how your own children grow and how to move those boundaries appropriately. It's because of this process, and that all kids are different, that most parenting books are utter crap. To be a good parent, you have to KNOW your kids.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[b0bby]

I think I'm a pretty decent parent, involved and into letting my kids make their own mistakes. One of my kids has a mild sensory disorder, which has the effect of making her crave an excess of some forms of sensory stimulation (and, paradoxically, makes her very sensitive to others). She has a tendency to want the volume too loud on any device she has access to, and I would certainly make use of a volume cap on an ipod if she ever gets one. The fact that she needs more external stimulation than other kids in order for her brain to react to the stimulation doesn't mean that her hearing would not be affected by the excessive volume, and as a parent I will do what I can to prevent this. YMMV.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[cowboy76Spain]

Only if you already had filled suit against them in the "the music is too loud" suit...

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[lowrydr310]

The funny thing is people who get caught actually inhaling crap like that don't get punished. Here's an example: some punk who was inhaling cans of computer duster fluid (you know, those big cans with the trigger that are used to blow dust off of your electronics?) was out joyriding while inhaling this crap. He was travelling at a high rate of speed and went out of control crashing over a 10 foot wall and on top of my friend's car. When the police arrived, he still had the can to his mouth and was still inhaling. They didn't care about that though. He got charged with underage drinking - his BAC was below the limit for being drunk, but because he was under 21 with alcohol in his system, he was charged. The fact that he was inhaling duster fluid didn't matter, despite that being the reason for him going out of control.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[leomaster]

Isn't the volume control designed for this very feature? TO CONTROL THE VOLUME? I'm a parent with two teenagers, so I can see the benefit of the lock-out, but as a social problem, it seems we're coming at this from the wrong direction. Parents set rules and limits. Little children follow them pretty well, but as they grow up, they start to break those limits a little (especially if the parents are too controlling). And sometimes, when the teen breaks a limit that was imposed for safety reasons, someone or something gets hurt. (i.e., starts the deck on fire by playing with matches, loses eyebrows by "helping dad start the barbeque with whitegas," crashes the car into the side of the garage, or accidentally discharges firearm on a hunting trip by forgetting first rule of firearms "all guns are always loaded.") [BTW, these are all examples out of my childhood ;)]

If it is a known reality that teenagers are going to break the rules, at what point do we as a society say "enough is enough" and let them break the rules, take their chances (like we did) and those that survive are better for it? Taken to extreme (as it seems headed) this "protect the children" concept means we should lock down all potentially harmful activities/food/products/experiences. And then the question comes: What type of adults would tform in this overprotective environment? Not very successful ones is my guess.

I hate to be harsh, but shouldn't we be reasoning that the volume control is enough, anyone who can't learn to use it properly should suffer the consequences? (i.e., if the child is too young or too rebellious, they shouldn't have the iPod in the first place, and for those adults who misuse it, tough luck.) As Larry Niven says, "Think of it as evolution in action!"

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[slcdb]

I think what he's really upset about is that Apple is basically being forced to add this feature to protect the company from lawsuits. It's a good feature, and they should have added it anyway, but it's the reason they've added it that is bothersome.

Instead of parents taking liability for allowing their children to harm themselves, the liability is put on the company for simply making it possible to damage your hearing. I realize this isn't a black-and-white issue: if the edges of the iPod were so sharp that you could easily accidentally cut your fingers off just by trying to pick it up that would be a totally different story.

The question is, why is this suddenly a problem? This wasn't a problem 30 years ago with the Sony walkman. Why Apple? Becaue they're so popular? Because we've become a society of overly litigious bastards? As a libertarian, you should already be familiar with these types of questions.

-- slcdb

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[geoffspear]

As Larry Niven says, "Think of it as evolution in action!"

Unless you think permanently damaging their hearing because they like listening to loud music is going to make them less likely to procreate, that's a complete non sequitur.

Eh? What's that you said about Apl.d.?

[WillAffleckUW]

You said Fergie's got a fix for his earring?

You'll have to speak up, I'm kind of deaf after listening to my iPod at 11 for so long.

Re:Eh? What's that you said about Apl.d.?

[Radicode]

I don't know, I no longer have an iPod... I had to sell it after I let my drummer handle the money.

1st post?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's sad. Apple shouldn't give in.

Re:1st post?

[TheComputerMutt.ca]

I don't care what the reason is, a feature like this is a good thing. I've been wanting something like this for a while. I'm caution when using my Nano, but sometimes when I'm distracted I might turn it up to dangerous levels. I've already patched my iPod and set this, and I'm very happy with how it works. Younger children may not realize the risk, so the parental lock feature is very useful as well.

And no, not first post.

Re:1st post?

[Caiwyn]

It's not just sad, it's dangerous from a legal standpoint. It's practically an admission of guilt. Expect a settlement, because there's not a chance in hell they plan to fight this in court now.

Re:1st post?

[Jonny_eh]

But this problem has existed in nearly every decent portable music device going back to the Walkman. If anything, Apple should be given credit for being proactive.

Alas, should, and will are probably different here.

Re:1st post?

[cswiger2005]

Agreed, mostly. I've seen some portable music players make a point of noting their volume-limitation features in years past, so some vendors have obviously run into this issue before.

If an iPod plays louder than the local law permits, that's a clear and easily tested matter of fact, and even a clever lawyer is going to have a hard time spinning that on the defense.

On the other hand, if someone tells you about a problem, and you promptly release new firmware which makes your products compliant, well, doesn't that resolve the problem without risking that a judge would order fines or something more onerous like a product recall?

In any case, I'm happy to see this feature added. I locked my volume down to about 90% of the max, just to avoid accidentally blasting my own ears at max volume.

It's not a bad thing

[celardore]

I think this move mainly covers themselves legally, but you can't say it's a bad feature - so long as you can choose to limit it, only if you want, or are a parent. Sometimes it's good to have your earphones loud! The risks are so much less than smoking, but a lot of us still do that.

Re:It's not a bad thing

[qzulla]

I think this move mainly covers themselves legally, but you can't say it's a bad feature - so long as you can choose to limit it, only if you want, or are a parent. Sometimes it's good to have your earphones loud! The risks are so much less than smoking, but a lot of us still do that.

Nice one. Comparing lung cancer to hearing loss.

I can live with hearing loss.

qz

Re:It's not a bad thing

[celardore]

My point was, we all know smoking is probably the worst thing you can do for you. We all know smoking kills and so on, but we still do it; people are still taking up the habit every day. If the risk is hearing loss, and not death - then the general population will do that even more carelessly.

What???

[techmuse]

Huh? Can you repeat that story?

Re:What???

[Anonymous Coward]

I think THEY SAID, "TODD IS GOING ON A DATE. THE ADDRESS HE HEARD WAS A CONCERN."

I guess being hard of hearing is pretty tough.

Yelling on slashdot is discouraged, I think they are being discriminatory.

Re:What???

[Anonymous Coward]

YEAAaAAaA

Re:What???

[Gamzarme]

Just wait for the dupe, it can't be too far away =)

Re:What???

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

This is Slashdot, they probably already have and will again within the next 24 hours.

Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Salo2112]

Back in my day, the Sony Walkman was going to deafen us all. Frankly, I would imagine people today are just as capable of operating the damned volume control as we were then.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Anonymous Coward]

stupid feature for stupid people.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Castar]

WHAT?

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[kimvette]

What? Speak up, I can't hear you! :D

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Volanin]

I kind of agree.

The only users who might use this are the same users that would consciously turn down the volume during a loud passage. But for once, the old infamous slashdot joke might apply very well!

1. Create stupid and costless feature.
2. Market as safe for children hearing!
3. Get rid of lawsuits.
4. Profit!!!

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[alienw]

You couldn't listen to a walkman 8 hours a day, so it'd be much harder to damage your hearing. With the stock headphones, settings above about 1/3rd of the indicator will cause permanent hearing damage if used for over an hour a day.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[MustardMan]

By lowering the maximum volume, you essentially have more accurate control of the volume range you're actually using. Using half the wheel to go from 0-50% isn't as good as using the entire wheel to do the same range. There's also a parental lockout control, so parents who were afraid to let children use the ipod now have the option to set a max volume and lock it.

The whole slashdot "I won't use this so it's automatically stupid" mentality is incredibly childish. Why this was modded insightful is a mystery to me. Of course, most moderation around here is a mystery to me.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[MustardMan]

And another thing - the wheel on an ipod is relatively sensitive. This is a good thing most of the time - it gives precise control and lets you quickly set the ipod exactly where you want it. However, it's also relatively easy to bump the thing and accidentally blast yourself with a painful shot of sound. Setting a maximum would eliminate this possibility.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[thatnerdguy]

With the stock headphones, settings above about 1/3rd of the indicator will cause permanent hearing damage if used for over an hour a day.

source?

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Leibel]

Why wouldn't Apple include this feature? It'd quieten (so to speak) the people who criticise it for being too loud, while others can do as they always have been doing. Rather than seeing it as an admission of guilt, Apple could use it to put an end to anyone who might not let their kids have one because it was too loud.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[lgw]

I regularly listened to a walkman for over 8 hours a day. There wasn't a time limiter built in, you know. But then, in my day men were real men and carried more than 1 set of batteries.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Anonymous Coward]

"You couldn't listen to a walkman 8 hours a day,"

Yes, you could. You simply replaced the batteries. And FM stations back in the day were not as bad as they are now. (And neither was the music, but that's more so a matter of opinion.)

"With the stock headphones, settings above about 1/3rd of the indicator will cause permanent hearing damage if used for over an hour a day."

At that setting, the sound wasn't great either given the nature of FM. Furthermore, the output of the headphones wasn't that great at those levels either. The only reason people did crank the volume level with the headphones on was to call attention to themselves by blaring audio out so passerbys heard them (similar to boomboxes back around then, which have come full circle to the fools that blare their car audio to get noticed).

Not that one or the other is better as hearing loss is hearing loss, but people lose their hearing from playing their home or car stereos too loud too. In all the cars I've driven, you could crank the volume on their stock stereosto the point the audio was unbearable, borderline painful. My point is that there is a personal responsibility to choose what works for you, not to blame others for incompetence.

Just because a device has higher settings, doesn't mean it's for the headphones either. When I was strapped for cash, I frequently used a portable device (namely personal CD players when they were quite popular and standalone home stereo CD players were rather expensive) by plugging into into an amp or stereo linein; with headphones I listened to the player with a max volume setting of 4 out of 9 but put it to 8 or 9 to get the lineout signal up to pump into my ancient home stereo receiver. Just because the option exists doesn't mean it exists for headphones exclusively; it may be there so it works with other devices that are commonplace nowadays to the market.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[xRelisH]

Back in my day, the Sony Walkman was going to deafen us all. Frankly, I would imagine people today are just as capable of operating the damned volume control as we were then.

Yeah, but back then, a lot of people took responsiblity for their own stupidity. Now, it seems like it's the company's fault.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[alienw]

It's a rough estimate. An accurate measurement is impossible, since it varies wildly with ear geometry and the type of music you listen to. Ear geometry affects the headphone efficiency. An earbud that fits perfectly will cause a higher SPL than one that does not.

In a reasonably quiet environment, 1/3rd of the way up is comfortable listening volume. In general, turning it up to the point where it feels loud means damaging your hearing, especially since the user is prone to inch up the volume as the ear adjusts to the higher level.

In short, the best way to kill your hearing is to use the volume control for noise cancellation. This works by reducing your ear's sensitivity and causes hearing loss. If you listen to your player in loud environments, you need some noise-cancelling or closed-ear headphones.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[iminplaya]

Well, I have to admit, A regular old mechanical volume control is easier to operate. Putting everything into a menu 20 layers deep can get tiresome. Especially for those with bad eyesight. Some things need to be readily accessible, by touch if possible. "Volume" and "stop"(or at least "pause") are a couple of them.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Anonymous Coward]

The US government holds more power over the people today than it did 20 years ago. (The US government offers more power to exploit, for those in the know, today than it did 20 years ago.) Therefore, it would be easier for a malicious individual to remove himself from personal accountability today, and turn a scenario of obvious self-inflicted loss into personal gain (for example by suing Apple for producing a "loud music player"), than it was 20 years ago.

In conclusion, what else could one expect?

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[hunterkll]

On the ipod, they're right on the front wheel...

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Marthirial]

Without this feature how is Apple going to tell the opportunists at the lawsuit: "See, we got you the option of reducing the volumen and still you went on your ways and now you are deaf"? This is not about volume, is about controling liability.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[damiam]

How fucking accurate do you need your volume? Can you tell the difference between 42% and 44%? I sure can't.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Panaphonix]

It was modded insightful because it was insightful. The iPod is the new Walkman and it's helpful to make comparisons between the two.

Despite all that, your points are valid and yes, all the whining about this is childish and unnecessary.

I like the moderation here, except when a "gang of four" with an agenda decide to push up a certain post. But such posts usually don't make it through the bullshit filter and make good "foe" fodder anyway.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[sootman]

Great, until you get to some cuts from a CD that was mastered at lower-than-average levels. Then you can't even "crank it up" to a good, listenable level.

Ipod volume limit remover

[dalmiroy2k]

How long until "Ipod volume limit remover" is released so kids can crack their Ipods?

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[cabinetsoft]

How long until "Ipod volume limit remover" is released so kids can crack their Ipods?

Well, taking in consideration that:

Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount

I think it's up to kid / teenager to remember his parents birth dates and try the combinations out of month and day... I'd say that and 0000, 1234 variants cover 90% of the lock codes.

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[themadplasterer]

They already have, it's provided by apple.

Apple instructs that if you forget you combination for parental volume control simply restore the ipod. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303 414

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[Shilaeli]

my mom put this update on my ipod but she has no idea how smart i am i just carry the dock around with me and plug my headphones straight into the line out

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[Firehed]

And coming next updater - a password-protected-to-disable warning pops up in iTunes if the iPod has been restored overriding a parental volume lock.

Personally I'd just use it so the crappy iBuds I can't be bothered to replace don't distort when I crank it. Or surprise the hell out of myself when something in my pocket sets off the clickwheel when I forgot to put on hold. Hopefully they didn't mess around with the icon numbers again so I can skin the firmware with minimal discomfort... I'm sick of the lag in 1.0 but now that video issues are apparently gone I should be safe to make the switch.

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[karnal]

Shit, use something stupid like the last 4 of your best friend's phone number back where you grew up. I don't think your kids would know that.

Something somewhat obscure, but burned into memory. At least to me.

And stay away from my luggage.

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[lixee]

It'll probably be something as simple as reverting to an older firmware.

Good thing for parents

[Darthmalt]

If my 12 year old brother had an iPod I would definatley use this on his. I wish his cd player had one. He doesn't understand so constantly turns it WAAAYYY up. Loud enough that I can hear everything he is listening too perfectly. Don't get me wrong I'm 21 so I like loud music however I almost never turn my ipod up over halfway when I'm listening to the headphones.

Re:Good thing for parents

[rob_squared]

I'm shocked, dumbfounded, in fact.

Tell him to turn it down already. Its been said before, but using technology to solve the symptoms (very high volume) instead of fixing the problem (not enforcing the idea that loud = dangerous) is a pretty bad, if not useless, idea.

I put this in the same class of ideas as seatbelt laws and lables on hairdryers warning the user not to operate them while in the shower.

Re:Good thing for parents

[Homology]

Tell him to turn it down already. Its been said before, but using technology to solve the symptoms (very high volume) instead of fixing the problem (not enforcing the idea that loud = dangerous) is a pretty bad, if not useless, idea.

You probably think that safety lock mechanism on guns is pretty bad idea too, eh? Of course one may use technology to make use of an appliance safer.

Re:Good thing for parents

[MustardMan]

If I have to tell you kids one more time, I'm turning the car around and we're going home.....

YOU WILL NOT USE LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE WHILE LIVING UNDER MY ROOF

(or is that posting under slashdot's moderators?)

Re:Good thing for parents

[Vainglorious Coward]

I put this in the same class of ideas as seatbelt laws

To be fair, seatbelt laws aren't just for the benefit of the seatbelt wearer - in a collision, your two hundred pounds of meat moving at 60mph is just an unsecured load like any other, and presents a danger to others, inside and outside of your vehicle. This is also why rear-seat belts are important - they save the lives of front seat passengers.

Re:Good thing for parents

[Anonymous Coward]

"You probably think that safety lock mechanism on guns is pretty bad idea too, eh?"

Depends on what you mean. If you means safeties or a separate safety lock mechanism.

Not all guns have safeties. For some guns, it's silly to have them. For others, i.e. hunting rifles or if you carry one on you in your day to day, they are a certainly a good thing.

Personally, I leave them off, and they get in my way more than not. My mentality with guns is that I only pick up a firearm when I need to use or maintain it. Otherwise it stays inside a steel gun cabinet. Out of the cabinet, I use a separate mechansim that locks the trigger and straps over the barrel, but it's a separate device. iow, *I* choose when and where a safety is needed. I also feel that's it MY fault if I blow my foot off or make an errant shot, not the gun manufacturer's responsibility to make a safety.

In fact, I'm far far more likely to sue if the safety fails than if there isn't one. With Apple, I wouldn't be surprised if there were further lawsuits if the firmware feature doesn't work or fails with future updates or still has the setting to default to something still to high; I think this increases Apple's legal exposure by making it unlike most devices (other mps players, personal CD players, etc.) on the market.

"Of course one may use technology to make use of an appliance safer."

Bullshit. This has nothing to do with technology; the tech always existed to do this, whether it be by limiting the turn and/or range of the pot or designing the max volume on the pcb or similar. This is an added feature, not technological progression, and one that was not determined by user or market demand or suggestion, but by potential liability. iow, it's because of other people getting greedy and looking to cash in on the ipod's success that created this; I might even go further and say our "I'm a victim" society has allowed personal ineptitude to subsidize personal incomes.

Re:Good thing for parents

[qwp]

I grew up with siblings..
So.. I never heard 'turn it down', if it was too loud one of two things happened.
I got punched in the size with a 'Turn it F'ing down'..

Or someone ripped the headphones off my head inorder for them to use it.

Both of these of course ended up with a manditory fight, something or someone always ended up broken. Yet now i do not run around blasting my music loud or doing other equally stupid actions. ;)

So not physical punishment just siblings, a always giving "Feature" in life.

Re:Good thing for parents

[Alaska Jack]

Well, I think there's a lot that could be said about this post, but one thing I'm curious about --

I have what I guess would be called extensive experience with firearms, and I've *never* seen without a safety of some kind. I'm genuinely curious -- can you provide an example?

    - Alaska Jack

Obligatory ST quote

[esampson]

Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount.

This iPod can go up to 11.

Re:Obligatory ST quote

[Ghouki]

why don't you just make 11 10?

Re:Obligatory ST quote

[Macadamizer]

Because 11 is 1 louder, of course.

Re:Obligatory ST quote

[blackmonday]

Couldn't you just make 10 louder?

I must be getting old

[Timesprout]

cos I think this is a good idea. My nano is proper fucking loud, uncomfortably so, esp with the apple ear buds (I prefer bang & olfsen for the quality) and that level of noise directed straight at your eardrum cant be good for you.

Plus theres the fact that if you play you ipod at full blast near me while I am trying to sleep on the train in the morning you are liable to be smacked in the face and your ipod will be fucked out the window.

Re:I must be getting old

[Mr. Freeman]

This won't help with either of your problems.
If it's too uncomftorble for you, then turn it down.
If someone else's IPOD is too loud, you can't do anything about it. You can't limit someone else's IPOD.

Re:I must be getting old

[chphilli]

and your ipod will be fucked out the window.

I'm pretty sure those kinds of demonstrations are illegal in most states ;)

Re:I must be getting old

[trepan]

"...and your ipod will be fucked out the window."

That's some mental image...

Re:I must be getting old

[__aawavt7683]

You may be all for it, but I'm pretty sure you're the only one that can turn your ipod down.

Apparently responsibility GOES with age.

-DrkShadow

Re:I must be getting old

[NilObject]

My nano is proper fucking loud, uncomfortably so, esp with the apple ear buds (I prefer bang & olfsen for the quality) and that level of noise directed straight at your eardrum cant be good for you.

You are aware that your iPod has a volume control, correct?

Re:I must be getting old

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you're just old.

Remember, all the young'uns these days are on AOL, where they shout all the time.

Could be useful

[triptolemus]

Jokes about suing and whatnot aside, this could be useful when an iPod is connected to a stereo, by means of tape-deck adapter, or RCA cables. Sometimes, when operating the scroll wheel, the volume gets turned up well beyond its ideal level for this type of connection (~50%). Limiting this would prevent accidental, unwanted increase in volume.

Minimal

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it possible to set the minimal volume level?

How about an update that checks the user's IQ

[glebd]

-- and switches the iPod off if the user is too stupid?

Re:How about an update that checks the user's IQ

[wildsurf]

This can be done very effectively by simply analyzing the user's playlist. I won't post the exact algorithm, but leave it to those who want to get flamed by morons ;)

Yes but...

[FuzzyBunnyFeet_83]

Sounds nifty... but will it let me make it louder?

Re:Yes but...

[ColaMan]

The problem with earphones is that you miss a lot of physical cues that the music is too loud.
For example :

If you're sitting in front of your stereo and your innards are thumping in time to the music, you get the idea that it's probably a little loud. You don't get this physical effect wearing earphones.

If the person next to you at a party is moving their lips but you can't hear them, you get the idea that it's a little loud. With earphones, you think "Oh, I've just got earphones in."

All these kinds of missed cues help you to tell when the volume's too loud. If you played music back in a room at the level you normally can achieve with earphones, you'd have people cringing.

Re:Yes but...

[karnal]

You actually nailed another point as well.

Most people's headphones are 10-100x better than their home stereo speakers. This lack of coloration and distortion also enables you to turn the music up louder without feeling the onset of pain.

Listening to music on my crappy yamaha speakers (don't laugh plz) can get painful... but putting on the Sennheisers (HD457's) at work is a totally different experience, and while I can tell the music can be louder with the Senns without distortion, it's easier to push beyond the limits with the cans.

Re:Yes but...

[FuzzyBunnyFeet_83]

I just want it loud enough so my ears bleed.

Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[dpbsmith]

Don't the people who worry about iPod volume levels realize that headphones differ enormously in sensitivity?

I have a pair of wonderful Sennheiser HD570 headphones which, unfortunately, are much less sensitive than those that come with the iPod. Using these headphones, perhaps 2/3 of my music sounds about right with the iPod volume set to its maximum. If I could just boost the output up about 6 db or so, it would work with all of them.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Your Pal Dave]

It would be nice (and probably profitable) if somebody came out with an inexpensive SPL meter which could be used to test individual earphones in order to determine a safe maximum setting. Something simple with red, yellow and green LEDs for instance.

Hell, Apple stores could have a proper SPL meter which customers could use to setup their ipods.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[_Swank]

have you considered a mobile amp?

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[jigjigga]

was just about to link to that site. If I may, OP, why are you using 570's on an iPod? I have some 555s I use at home, but if I were to travel I would most certainly use something smaller and closed.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Reverberant]

It would be nice (and probably profitable) if somebody came out with an inexpensive SPL meter which could be used to test individual earphones in order to determine a safe maximum setting.

It's actually pretty difficult to accurately test headphone sound levels because the sound level will depend on the volume of air in the ear canal (for ear buds) or under the cup (for over-ear headphones) as well as the leakage around the head phone. This is dependant on the size of the ear and the pressure of the head band on the head (for over-ear headphones). There's a reason why artificial ears and dummy heads cost thousands of dollars.

Mead Killion (founder of Etymotic Research) gave a talk in Boston recently, and he announced a product similar to what you are proposing, and it should go to market soon. Basically, it's a box that goes between the audio player and the headphones, it measures the voltage of the headphone output, and determines safe and unsafe levels. Rather than measuring SPL levels from the headphones directly, the unit will be factory programed with the output levels from various DAP/headphone combinations (determined using lab measurements) so it can map the voltage to the appropriate level.

[Dr. Killion also gave everyone at the talk a free pair of ER-6's, but that was just icing on the cake :) ]

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately they have to cover their asses - with my Sennheiser CX 300s, the volume at full is uncomfortably loud. Anymore and I would be worried about permanent damage from even a short burst of music.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Anonymous Coward]

"If I could just boost the output up about 6 db"

You want to increase the current maximum output by 200% ?!

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[BillyBlaze]

Did you ever consider there might be a reason we measure sound in decibels? We perceive sound roughly logarithmically, so even though a 6 decibel increase is a lot more power, it doesn't sound that much louder.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Your Pal Dave]

Mead Killion (founder of Etymotic Research) gave a talk in Boston recently, and he announced a product similar to what you are proposing, and it should go to market soon. Basically, it's a box that goes between the audio player and the headphones, it measures the voltage of the headphone output, and determines safe and unsafe levels. Rather than measuring SPL levels from the headphones directly, the unit will be factory programed with the output levels from various DAP/headphone combinations (determined using lab measurements) so it can map the voltage to the appropriate level.

Seems to me that you could build this functionality into the DAP. It would already know its own parameters and could measure its own output voltage, so it would only nead the database of headphone parameters.

[Dr. Killion also gave everyone at the talk a free pair of ER-6's, but that was just icing on the cake :) ]

Best. Swag. Ever.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Breakfast Pants]

Yeah, why not get some canalphones? Sony fontopiaa, despite being sony, are awesome and cheap.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Gnavpot]

"If I could just boost the output up about 6 db" You want to increase the current maximum output by 200% ?!

No, 100% or 300% depending on whether you are measuring voltage or effect. Definitely not 200%. And as others have already told, a 6 dB increase is not that much. Most people will need around 10 dB to double the perceived sound level.

Mr Cynic

[ackthpt]

A lock code? It'll be hax0r3d. huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh ...

There. That should summarize about half of the responses.

my, cynical today, aren't we?

Actually, let me add to your prediciton: It'll be hax0r3d, then /. will carry posts, then Apple with threaten the author of the hack page, then /. will carry the story of that, plus the author's valiant struggle for freedom to reprogram crap you bought and the evils of DMCA reverse engineering provisions.

Re:Mr Cynic

[binary paladin]

You forgot the most important part.

Apple will get additional advertising!

Re:Mr Cynic

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Apple fanboys here will be cheering Apple every step of the way.

For making it loud, for making the loudness cap, for making it hard enough, but not too hard, to hack the loudness cap, because Apple's Ipod is so "totally awesome" people just want to listen to it loud, because Apple ain't Microsoft, because they love and worship Steve Jobs, etc.

Re:Mr Cynic

[glassjaw rocks]

Then it'll be duped, don't forget that one.

Re:Mr Cynic

[atrocious cowpat]

You left out the worst part:

"[...] then /. will carry the story of that, plus the author's valiant struggle for freedom to reprogram crap you bought and the evils of DMCA reverse engineering provisions."

And THEN Cory Doctorow will post about 50 entries on BoingBoing about the issue, and make a speech which will subsequently be translated into 85 languages (including Esperanto, Basque and Gonkfoffl).

Patent

[mtenhagen]

If think they should make a system where the user can decide for it self what the volume should be by using a "-" and "+" button. Hereby giving the user full control of the volume level.

Should this be patented that would be true inovation!

Re:Patent

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony have started doing this on their CD/radio players, and it annoys the hell out of me. If you want to kill the volume in a hurry, to take a phone call for example, rather than instantly turning a knob, you have to press the - button several times. It's actually quicker to pull the plug. How's that for adanced industrial design?

Re:Patent

[Anonymous Coward]

/golfclap

don't these things have a variable volume control?

[hackstraw]

Eh?

But I guess that it is relatively easy to go past your comfort zone once you get acclimated to a certain volume and many different songs have different RMS values to them, so mixes can be difficult, even with a max threshold.

Also, I hope that the lawsuit goes the way of the fat people suing McDonalds. Food and headphones are nothing new, and overusing them is personal responsibility.

Next week, I might drink 8 or so gallons of water, die, and then come back and sue the waterworks of my town. That will teach them not to sell water anymore.

I won't use it

[godglike]

External sound levels vary too much, and I have external speakers that are for filling the house with sound. So there is no maximum volume to be set.

It's a cute reaction with little real usefulness. Hopefully it'll mollify some of the idiots complaining about having to be responsible for their own hearing but not interesting otherwise.

Which leaves only one question: why am I commenting on it?

Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[Dzimas]

The problem is that a short period of extremely high volume does the same damage as prolonged listening at moderate volumes. And humans are extremely bad at perceiving volume -- I often crank my iPod higher than I should when on the train with lots of ambient noise. So the iPod volume limiter is a cute idea, but in practice it should lower the volume if I leave my earphones stuffed into my head for an entire afternoon.

The best thing is to educate yourself on the dangers of loud music (heck, ANY loud ambient noise can be dangerous as well). I'm from an older generation and did some permanent damage to my hearing with a string of Sony Walkman players and car stereos.

Re:Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[Kelson]

I often crank my iPod higher than I should when on the train with lots of ambient noise....in practice it should lower the volume if I leave my earphones stuffed into my head for an entire afternoon.

Humans perceive relative volume. I've often gotten in the car and turned on the radio only to discover that I had left it set unreasonably loud. Of course, when I was listening to it before, it was on the freeway with lots of background noise, and now I've spent the last 30 seconds walking through a parking lot.

Back in our college days, my then-girlfriend (now wife) remarked that DJs were aware of this and would slowly increase the volume over the course of a dance or party as people got acclimated to the louder sound. They had to keep the music not just loud, but sounding loud. Unfortunately, they all too often started out at the top of the range they should have. By the end of the evening, it would be maximum strength plus 10%.

Re:Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[Anonymous Coward]

By the end of the evening, it would be maximum strength plus 10%.

So, it goes up to 11 :)

Re:Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[Anonymous Coward]

While the comment about DJs is true, they also have to turn the sound up anyway to accomodate the amount of meat that's entered the room soaking up the sound.

Re:Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[overacid]

but in practice it should lower the volume if I leave my earphones stuffed into my head for an entire afternoon.

While i agree that continuous levels of music being pumped into your ears for an entire afternoon can't do you any good, you could never remove the user's be-all and end-all control over what level they want to listen to their music at.

I actually use my Ipod to DJ sometimes, plugging it into an external mixer, and if my ipod were to suddenly take a dive in volume because i'd been playing it for an extended period of time then i'd sh*t myself.

So now the latest ipod excessory

[Maxo-Texas]

a set of battery boosted earbuds with an independent volume control....

Pointless in this implementation

[iabervon]

This just lets you set the maximum volume setting. But if there's some maximum volume setting you don't want to exceed, just don't set the volume higher. The real issue, in my opinion, is that you're likely to have tracks that have different average volumes, and if you play a quiet track, you'll turn it up, and then the next loud track damages your hearing. Using this feature to limit it, you play a quiet track, and you can't hear it. Or you adjust the maximum while playing a medium-volume track, and the loud tracks damage your hearing anyway. What they need is something to calculate RMS volume levels and automatically adjust the volume to even out tracks and limit the loudness of the output independant of the input.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Anonymous Coward]

What they need is something to calculate RMS volume levels and automatically adjust the volume to even out tracks and limit the loudness of the output independant of the input.

iTunes does just that via Sound Check. The volume settings for each file get transferred over to the iPod.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Slackrat]

I believe the iPod and iTunes already supports the "Sound Check" feature which does just what you describe.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[MustardMan]

What they need is something to calculate RMS volume levels and automatically adjust the volume to even out tracks and limit the loudness of the output independant of the input.

iTunes does this
and it can also
upload the settings to your ipod

Wait, what was that sound? I think I had my ipod turned up too loud. There it was again... I think it was the sound of you being thoroughly pwned.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[inaequitas]

You can also manually increase the volume of a track [or an entire album or more]

That seems to be the way to still be able to have louder tracks. Unless the update tries to calculate RMS on-the-fly, which would drain the battery life in a ridiculous amount of time [and just plain suck.]

Yes, it seems that more and more people want others to take care of them. It makes you wonder if democracy [and power to the masses] really is the best idea ever when so many people seem to be unfit to govern their own lives, let alone have a say in what everyone's life should look like.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Breadly]

They have this - it's called "SoundCheck"

To switch on Sound Check on your iPod:
In the main iPod menu, click on Settings - Sound Check - On

If you wish to switch off Sound Check on your iPod, follow these steps:

To switch off Sound Check on your iPod:

In the main iPod menu, click on Settings - Sound Check - Off

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[MustardMan]

The first link I gave explains how sound check works - it computes the individual volume settings automatically in itunes, then simply transfers these settings to the ipod. No need to worry about battery life.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Anonymous Coward]

The real issue, in my opinion, is that you're likely to have tracks that have different average volumes, and if you play a quiet track, you'll turn it up, and then the next loud track damages your hearing.

% foreach FILE ( *.wav )
sox -v `sox ./$FILE -e stat -v` ./$FILE ./loud-$FILE

Now they're all the same volume.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[inaequitas]

What I meant is, on the "Get Info" window there is an option for volume boost. I'm wondering whether the limiter will still be able to limit the sound output if, for example, some kid sets all of its songs to full boost.

If the limiter cannot do it than I guess it is a way to possibly circumvent that protection. Just a thought.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Bohnanza]

Ironically, the problem with "sound check" is that it seems to lower the volume of everything below the point I'd like.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[C.]

My answer to Apple:

- From the instruction page, Clicked "It wasn't helpful"
- Selected "It covered my problem, but was too hard to understand"
- Filled in the boxes:
Tell us how we can improve this specific article.
Tell us how high a volume is safe for 15 minutes of listening.
Write a brief description of your problem.
You tell us how to lock the maximum iPod volume, without guidance on how high to set it for safe operation.

If enough people do the same, they just may notice it...

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[greed]

SoundCheck is horrible. It seems to work on transient peak volume, rather than RMS or any other sustained measure of real or perceived levels.

As a result, if you have a seriously mixed-genre collection and you've got the whole mess on Shuffle, you have to swing the volume level by very large amounts. And boy does it hurt when a track that is marked as "quiet" by SoundCheck comes along, but it's really fairly loud on average--it just doesn't have big peaks.

Fortunately, for Mac users, there's a solution, that works by re-computing the SoundCheck level with a much better acoustic model--but it takes much, much, much longer. It took SoundCheck a couple of hours to process my library, and iVolume a couple of days. (It also can't work with protected files because you can't get the raw digital wave out of a protected file. But I wanted all that stuff in MP3 anyway, so I burned audio CDs and ripped them back--iTunes does a great job of keeping all the ID3 information when you do that. Though not album artwork.)

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[MustardMan]

Yet again, slashdot proves it's moderated by complete fucking jackasses. My post was genuinely informative - the parent is an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about.

I must be a masochist to continue posting at this shithole.

F'ing political correctness

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate it when a company gets sued because the customer is fecking stupid.

Hands up who has been in a lift and there is someone in there with the volume up so loud that you can hear every screech ?

It should be legal to kill stupid people...

God forbid people learn to use the volume control

[Mr. Freeman]

What makes it so hard for someone to simply turn down the volume themselves?
Or is it that we now have to assume that all teenagers don't know how to work the volume control by themselves.

Other MP3 players are still capable of playing music at any volume with no way to restrict it, what about them?

If people are going to complain about the potential for loud volume then they might as well complain about pencils being too sharp, fans spinning too fast, the sky being too blue, etc.

Could actually come in handy...

[franktinsley]

If you needed to output the sound through the headphone jack to another amp and don't want it to loud and distorted you could set the limit to optimal stereo volume.

Fantastic

[countach]

This is a fantastic idea if for no other reason than it is easy to accidently change the volume when it is in your pocket. The click wheel is too sensitive and you can end up blasting your head off accidently. This is even more so with in-ear earphones which only need the volume half as high for the same amount of decibels in your ear drum.

So let's not hear any talk about this being a silly idea. It's not.

Re:Fantastic

[theStig]

Yes, the volume adjustment is tres sensitive. I normally lock mine when in use, but that makes it hard to change tracks, etc. DECREASING the sensitivity would negate the point of having the clickwheel in the first place.. They _could_ add a second volume control.. it'll be a tough call - design vs. aural bludgeonings..

Re:Fantastic

[Mr. Freeman]

If you put it in your pocket then turn on the lock, that's what it's there for.

Re:Fantastic

[countach]

The lock? Now there's a damned useless feature. I *like* the ability to be able to make minor adjustments to the volume all the time. I *like* the ability to skip songs without fiddling around with two switches. I *like* the ability to pause it to talk to someone with a simple hand movement.

Apple could get rid of the hold switch and I'd praise them for it.

Re:Fantastic

[WilliamSChips]

I use the hold feature for one thing--preventing the iPod from going on when I don't want it to. But I agree--lock while the iPod is on is a useless feature and should be replaced with an "on/off" switch.

Re:Fantastic

[kindbud]

The iPods have a little lock switch to prevent any controls from being accidentally activated. On my Nano, it's on the top edge.

Re:Fantastic

[chris_eineke]

So let's not hear any talk about this being a silly idea.

Don't worry. You'll be deaf by the time people come up with the idea. :P

Re:Fantastic

[mzwaterski]

I *like* when the click-wheel gets pressed in my pocket and switches songs or volume on its own. I *like* when the ipod turns on in my bag and runs the batteries dead. I can't be bothered to turn hold off to make adjustments. No one else should use the hold switch...

Sounds kinda silly when you think about it, huh?

Re:Fantastic

[recursiv]

No, it's not useless. I use it every day. If you don't like, why are you using it? If you aren't using it, what's the problem?

I use the lock to prevent buttons from being pressed while I'm biking.

Re:Fantastic

[WilliamSChips]

If you aren't using it, what's the problem?

That instead of having the switch turn off my iPod, I have to hold down Play to turn it off. And since I usually pause before turning off my iPod(in most circumstances I don't like to turn on my iPod to the middle of a song), letting up too soon can cause it to start playing, which annoys me because I then have to set it to the beginning of the track again. The way they force us to turn them off is my only real beef with the iPod. That and DRM on iTMS-downloaded files preventing me from listening to them on Linux and causing stupid bugs when corruption occurs on the DRM key, requiring me to sync my iPod again(which requires me to boot to Windows). But the DRM is another story, and more the fault of the RIAA than Apple.

Re:Fantastic

[recursiv]

My personal solution is to never turn my ipod off. When not playing, it doesn't seem to burn any noticeable amount of battery, on or off.

iPod volume limit iGnorer

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer my iPod limit iGnorer headphones. You know, ones that can amplify their input. I haven't met too many 12-year-old audiophiles, but plenty who like loud music (and from recalling what many listened to when I was that age, I think adding noise is an improvement).

Re:iPod volume limit iGnorer

[xerxesdaphat]

Shit. If you want to hear high-quality music, try just avoiding Kenny G for a start ^_^

Hurt my wrist

[matthewchen]

Can I sue the companies the computers that hurt my wrist because I use them every day:) So those companies better to come out something to prevent hurting wrists.

iPod needs a lower 'low'

[smenor]

My principal complaint with the iPod's volume control is that it isn't fine-grained enough.

When there's a lot of ambient noise, the granularity isn't a big deal.

It really bugs me if I'm in a quiet environment, though. There's a sharp jump from 0 volume to a level that's already uncomfortably loud for me.

Re:iPod needs a lower 'low'

[useruser]

I just downloaded the update, and was happy to find that upon setting a low maximum volume (about 10%), the control granularity has actually increased: the far right of the bar is now 10%, allowing me to carefully adjust it between 0 and 10%.

Re:iPod needs a lower 'low'

[smenor]

That's great news! - thanks a lot getting my update now :-)

iTunes solves this

[drhamad]

Dammit, I just spent 4 mod points on this story, but I find I must respond to this comment.

iTunes has an automatic volume adjuster that will analyze all your music and equalize the volume. It works amazingly well. Is it perfect? No, but it's pretty close to. And at the same time, songs that are SUPPOSED to be louder ARE louder - but songs don't have that track to track variation just from different recording.

Re:God forbid people learn to use the volume contr

[kupekhaize]

Because that would involve personal responsibility, and this day in age it's far too easier to just sue someone claiming they didn't do enough to stop you from hurting yourself.

Useless Hack

[Baavgai]

Note: The volume of songs and other audio may vary depending on how the audio was recorded or encoded. Volume level may also vary if you use different earbuds or headphones.

This appears to be functionally useless as it only allows you to set the max on the volume slider. With a varied collection of music, some will blow out your ears at 75% while others will need to be 95% to even follow the words. Any kid wanting more hearing loss simply has to remaster their sound files.

I was honestly hoping for a max volume output, so the loud song that follows the soft song doesn't make me drive up a street pole.

Re:Useless Hack

[SPY_jmr1]

iPods have an onboard sound leveler. Part of the metadata that itunes puts in the file is the dB of the file, so the ipod can make a relative adjustment to the average volume.

I think it's called sound check(?) in the ipod settings... But they may have changed/moved it since my 3g was made.

Spy

Re:Useless Hack

[alienw]

You can't increase the volume of a sound file unless said sound file was improperly recorded. The DAC in the iPod uses 16 bits, and you can't add any extra volume. You can add the perception of more volume by compressing the dynamic range, but that doesn't affect hearing loss. What you want is normalization, and the iPod already has that feature (it's called Sound Check and it requires iTunes to be configured in a certain way).

Re:Useless Hack

[Anonymous Coward]

I was honestly hoping for a max volume output, so the loud song that follows the soft song doesn't make me drive up a street pole.

I hope that doesn't mean you're using your iPod and headphones whilst driving...

Re:Useless Hack

[Anonymous Coward]

iPod does have a setting called "Sound Check" that's supposed to make all songs sort of equal volume. It annoys me but there it is.

Re:Ok

[jrockway]

Karma is capped at 50.

drink?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why drink 'n die? Why not drown 'n die?

I mean, I haven't seen a "do not submerge head" warnings on anything water related (bills included), so you might just have a case... If you live in the US anyway.

What you require

[SuperKendall]

Huh? Can you repeat that story?

You appear to need the new iPod video update with brightness limiter.

Or sunglasses.

Re:don't these things have a variable volume contr

[chphilli]

Next week, I might drink 8 or so gallons of water, pee, and then come back and sue the waterworks of my town.

There. Fixed.

What about good earphones instead?

[cabinetsoft]

I have a 30G video iPod and in just 4 months I already changed 2 earphones - each one used maximum 30-35 hrs and 90% of the time with the sound level under the middle of the scale.

So I went to the dealer I bought the iPod from and they told me the earphones aren't covered by the Apple warranty program and that it's not their problem.

I'm no audiophile and belive me when I say sound sucks then it really sucks.

The interesting thing tho is that each time the left earbud starts making strange noises. I can hear them first on low frequencies and then in short time it starts making strange noises on anything I listen.

Because it happened in such a short time and each time for the same side I suspect that the iPod might break them - even so the dealer said they can't prove it and I should just buy another set.

And yes I do have some hearing problems but those aren't caused by any earphones...

Anyone had same problems with earphones breaking constantly?

Re:What about good earphones instead?

[TheRaven64]

So I went to the dealer I bought the iPod from and they told me the earphones aren't covered by the Apple warranty program and that it's not their problem.

Not true. Give Apple support a call, and they will ship you a replacement set for free. Also, give them the name of the dealer who is refusing to honour the warranty.

Re:What about good earphones instead?

[dreamer-of-rules]

You've been lied to.

Re:What about good earphones instead?

[Anonymous Coward]

Come to think of it, in every headphone set I've ever owned, the left earpiece has gone dead. Always the left. Never the right. Unusual, isn't it? Clearly this is a sign of the conspiracy against all that is left!

But seriously, I never could figure out why it was always the left earpiece...

Re:What about good earphones instead?

[Carthag]

To me it seems to be fairly random.

One set of Apple earphones lasted for 2+ years, even after I had to duct tape part of the wire that had gotten exposed.

A second set of no-names I got after those lasted less than 6 months.

A third set of Apple earphones only lasted a couple of months.

The fourth set I got, no-name earphones are currently just over a year with no problems.

Re:What about good earphones instead?

[seanadams.com]

What gen ipod do you have?

On my nano it sounds like the amplifier is maxing out rather than the headphones. The difference is when the amp maxes out you'll hear mostly clipping and some bass suppression, but when the headphones are overdriven you'll hear more of noisy/scratching sound until they die, because the drivers are mechanically being driven hard against their full excursion.

The nano sounds like crap at full volume, but for workout music I'm happy enough at one or two clicks below max.

You may want ot try some in-ear headphones - these may give you much better efficiency and bass respsonse allowing you to run the ipod at lower volume for the same result (and save some battery time too). The earbuds lose about half their power due to their loose fit against the ear canal - try pressing them against your ear to hear how much is being lost.

More power to 'em!

[Machina Fortuno]

Look... we all know that Apple hasn't done all the best things with their iPod, but I am for this 100%

For those of you who keep bashing people for "being idiots", you can shut it... not everyone can be as enlightened as you. Apple has provided their customers with more control... I am sorry if you are against that, but I have no reason to go against this. I am afraid that you guys are a little to quick to complain...

Re:More power to 'em!

[Rod Beauvex]

How the fuck enlightened do you have to be to TURN_DOWN_THE_VOUME?

Re:God forbid people learn to use the volume contr

[Homology]

Because that would involve personal responsibility, and this day in age it's far too easier to just sue someone claiming they didn't do enough to stop you from hurting yourself.

Now you sound like a spokesman for a company selling shoddy and dangerous products attempting to put the blame on their customers. Safe products are more expensive to design and produce.

Legal System Mockery

[Icephreak1]

It's becoming more apparent to me that laws exist, for the most part, to keep people from maiming themselves. Why someone dismisses personal responsibility for eating themselves obese at McDonald's or destroying their own hearing with an iPod is beyond me. If anything, it probably points to some sort of serious dissociative disorder. I liken it to people who walk through doors without closing them or eating at restaurants and walking out the door without throwing away their garbage -- people want all the benefits but high tail it when it comes time to be truly accountable for all their doings.

- IP

The problem isn't that kids are going deaf

[tlynch001]

My generation is half deaf from listening to AC/DC on our walkmans. This generation is half deaf from listening to Kelly Clarkson and J-somebody featuring *Dog. Both groups can't hear, but only one still has their pride.

HUGE concern

[BoxSocial]

I know this has been a huge concern of mine for a long time.

Geesh.. Nanny state increases

[nurb432]

Of course if you listen to it too loud you will hurt your hearing.. Idiots.. Suits like that should cause the moron to goto jail.. not some million dollar award.

hyponatremia

[MyNymWasTaken]

It is possible to die from drinking too much water.

You Can Drink Too Much Water

Water intoxication is a problem not only among athletes. For instance, it has become one of the most common causes of serious heat illness in the Grand Canyon. Some people hiking the canyon drink large amounts of water and do not eat enough food to provide for electrolyte (salt, potassium) replacement and energy. Fears of dehydration has led to a mistaken belief that the safe thing to do is to drink as much and as often as possible. But even with drinking water, there can be too much of a good thing.

Re:hyponatremia

[chphilli]

Oh, I'm entirely aware of that - It was a humor thing, really! Apparently it wasn't very good though. Sorry about that!

Re:hyponatremia

[MyNymWasTaken]

No problem. It's just that are quite a few who might actually try suing the Ozarka bottled water company because there aren't sufficient warning labels on a water bottle, and many more ignorantly spouting that water in any amount is harmless.

The bane of plaintext is conveying information in addition to the flat words.

Re:don't these things have a variable volume contr

[SilentResistance]

Yes, I'm tring to think of my own get rich quick lawsuit because I wasn't protected/warned from my own stupidity. Unfortunately, choosing to listen to loud music and choosing to spill hot coffee on my lap are taken. Darn!

Hmmm... Do car companies warn consumers about how it could be dangerous to sit on the roof of the car and attempt to drive with ropes and pulleys? I think I smell cash$

Now if only Motorola followed suit

[GarbanzoBean]

I have Motorola SLVR L7 with iTunes and that thing has only 7 discreet sound levels: mute, very loud, obnoxiously loud, and then four settings for varying degrees of hearing damage. Very loud=2/3 the maximum loudness of Ipod Nano. I wish they would also issue a patch.

-Yakov

Re:Now if only Motorola followed suit

[tomstdenis]

Put a POT inline with both channels. ... what you don't shop at electronic stores?

I'm sure there are headphones out there that have this sort of mechanism already installed.

That way you can just turn down the volume. It wouldn't stop distortion but provided the signal is ok and just too loud this would help you.

Tom

Re:God forbid people learn to use the volume contr

[coopex]

Hmm, should a company that makes knives be reponsible for designing a "safe" knife, or should the people "operating" the knife be responsible for safety?

since when does natural selection reward stupidity

[sl4shd0rk]

What the hell happened to the legal system in this country? First some lady dumps hot coffee in her lap and sues McDonalds for a win - despite the fact that common sense tells you "coffee hot, drink later". Next, smokers sue big tobacco for a win, despite the warning labels and old people on oxygen still dragging on that coffin nail, and now people are turning up the volume, going deaf, and suing Apple. It seems to me that this is just hindering the natural selection process, and muddying the gene pool with retards. The people bringing these lawsuits should be terminated to bring the natural selection process back into order.

McD and hot coffee

[reaktor]

It's somewhat like the McD case, where the woman sued and got about $3 million b/c McD's coffee is hot.

Re:God forbid people learn to use the volume contr

[Detritus]

Teenagers are, for the most part, stupid. They don't have the maturity and experience that usually comes with age. I certainly did my share of stupid things when I was a teenager.

Hearing loss can be insidious. I damaged my hearing by long-term occupational exposure to the noise from diesel generators. It didn't seem that loud at the time.

not all of us are as tech savvy as you

[centinall]

I myself am suffering from hearing lose after not realizing that i could adjust the volume in my car for about 9 months now. Sure Hondas are nice cars, but you think they would make this little fact a little more known. They should also tell you that you don't have to push the right pedal down all the way when you want to make the car move. I've gotten in several accidents and have many tickets already. I'm currently looking for some people to start a class action lawsuit against this company putting out products that could and have negatively affected me. If anyone is interesting in joining in, message me.

Hesus.

[jiteo]

*bangs head against wall* Doctor! Doctor! My head hurts. I have a better idea for Apple. When the volume is higher than some threshold, display the finger.

This is a visual site...

[NotQuiteReal]

Didn't anyone tell you what causes blindness?

BTW, if you need it, I can forward some good spam that advertises palm-hair remover.

Empower yourselves with information!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://128.121.193.44/at_risk/risk_aboutloss.shtml

Great information on what causes hearing damage.

From that page:

"Noise-induced hearing loss affects both the quantity and the quality of sound. Understanding human speech becomes difficult because words become indistinct. Excessive sound exposure damages hearing by over-stimulating the tiny hair cells within the inner ear. There are between 15,000 and 20,000 of these microscopic sensory receptors in the cochlea (coke-lee-ah). When these hair cells are damaged, they no longer transmit sound to the brain. Sounds are muffled. Hearing damage through noise exposure is permanently lost. Hearing aids amplify the remainder of your hearing."

new lawsuit coming...

[rhesuspieces00]

seeing as how this update only affects 5th generation iPods and iPod nanos, Apple is clearly and deliberately leaving those of us with older iPods in harms way. they should give me a new iPod to protect my hearing. either that or a million dollars. they have a moral obligation.

Good idea

[IntergalacticWalrus]

I have an iPod nano and the maximum volume level is unlistenable because there is way too much distortion.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

That has a lot to do with the quality of your rip. Lossless CD quality audio sounds great on max. I often pull the earbuds out of my ears, set them down, pump it to max, and enjoy the mini stereo that is the iPod.

fyi.

Re:since when does natural selection reward stupid

[Dissectional]

hahaha, fucking signed.

Common sense isn't.

Creative

[Doytch]

My Audigy 2 ZS's CD comes with their own purty media player. I don't use it, but it includes a feature that can auto level the sound output of your songs and what not to a normalized level. I checked it out and thought it was cool, but I don't use it anyway. Thing is, Creative's mp3 players don't use this, and I haven't seen any that do. If Creative put this in their players, it might net them a few more valuable percentage points, and might turn me from iRiver.

On the flip side...

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone wanted to make a true iPod killer, they'd make a player that goes up to 11.

Various Ways This Will Be Worked Around

[The MAZZTer]

- Kids will edit an MP3, half the volume, upload it, and then show mom/dad that the maximum volume is too low. This might only work so long, unless the mom/dad isn't too technologically inclined and can be lead to beleave the iPod volume degrades over time.
- Kids will download a hack to reset the password.
- Kids will flash the firmware or reset the bios or otherwise erase the user preferences, thus unlocking the volume control. This one is probably real easy.
- Kids will edit ALL their MP3s and turn the volume as far up as possible, even possibly if the waveform ends up flattening out.

This might satiate certain groups for now, but if I came up with this in five minutes I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't REALLY think this will solve the problem. They might be able to use this as political leverage to say "not our problem anymore"!

(Not that I think it was theirs to begin with.)

No, this is just for the politicians

[Bueller_007]

They already had more than enough protection against hearing damage:

#1. The click wheel lets you change the volume from full to mute with one quick turn of the thumb.
#2. The "Hold" switch prevents the volume from changing when it's in your pocket.
#3. The "Sound Check" option, which normalizes the volume of all the songs.
#4. If you're among the white-earphone-wearing masses, the headphones that come with the iPod are so crappily designed that they fall right out of your ears if you take off the little black felt "earphone covers".

Actually, I thought France's problem with the iPod's sound system was that it came bundled with in-ear headphones. The iPod headphones are actually quite good if you leave the little black felt things on them, but the second you take them off (which most people seem to do), they fall half way out of your ear canal and the music sounds super soft and tinny. Then you have to crank the volume and jam them back in.

At any rate, this is just to make some politicians happy. You can easily accomplish the same affect as the new Volume Lock using just #1, #2 and #3. The only really new feature is that the volume can be controlled with a combination, which is touted on the website as a "parental control" option. Parental control? Oh, please.

The only other reason I can see for this is that update is that it gives Apple a simple way (i.e. through internet firmware updates) to control the max dB levels for every iPod in every country, just in case there are any hearing-protection laws passed.

"Please enter a valid...."

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't have an Apple ID? Please tell us who you are...
Please enter a valid Email Address.

Please enter a valid First Name.

Please enter a valid Last Name.
So I can't just download the update... And why do I have to fork over my personal info for an upgrade?

I have no desire to use the "Apple ID" service, nor sign up just to update my stuff.

It doesn't absolve parent of anything

[sdo1]

ust what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult.

Ah, spoken like a true non-parent (I'll be shocked if you're the parent of anyone old enough to be effected by this). This doesn't absolve parents of anything. You can explain and reason with a teenager all you'd like and the second they're out of your sight, it's time to ignore everything the parents said. You can't hold their hand every minute of every day, but you're still responsible for them and that means not just talking to them, but being proactive in their lives and putting down certain boundaries.

Do I let my kid have free reign on the TV? No, I'm a parent and part of that is, as you said, parenting. Discussing with them what they're watching and why and putting down limits on what I think is appropriate for their age, not what THEY think is appropriate. Since I can't take the remote from them every minute of every day and be in the room with them every time it's time to watch TV, I lock out the channels I feel are inappropriate.

I see this as no different. My 6 year old wants and iPod. Younger and younger kids are getting them. And if he got one, I could explain to him and reason with him the dangers of loud music, but he doesn't have a sense of what's too loud, so I think this would be a great solution. If I explain to him not to touch the open bottle of sleeping pills on the counter, is that good parenting, or is leaving them there just plain irresponsible? Putting them in a locked cabinet doesn't absolve me of actual parenting. It's just being proactive and looking out for my child's best interests. Parenting is a continual series of teaching, learning, and guidance. Sometimes they do the right thing, other times you need to step in.

It's not a substitute for parenting. It's just another tool.

-S

Re:It doesn't absolve parent of anything

[Anonymous Coward]

Since I can't take the remote from them every minute of every day and be in the room with them every time it's time to watch TV, I lock out the channels I feel are inappropriate.

When I (and all other kids around my age) was a kid there were pornos and terribly violent shows on TV, and TV didn't have a lockout feature. My entire generation didn't turn into an RPG weilding, woman raping nut fest. But we did learn one thing: Sometimes you just need to respect authority because them's the breaks and it makes society easier to live with.

Today's generation learns something different: Only respect the rules when someone locks you out from breaking them.

No wonder everyone has to lock their front doors today.

Re:It doesn't absolve parent of anything

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be shocked if you're the parent of anyone old enough to be effected by this.

And I'll be shocked if people with such a mrginal grasp of the english language should be allowed to conceive or even raise children. First of all, there are usually 2 parents, so it should be "a" parent. Second, it's "affected". Learn your language - think of your children.

Re:It doesn't absolve parent of anything

[lowrydr310]

I grew up in a household with a bunch of guns in an unlocked cabinet, a TV with HBO and everything else, dangerous chemicals under the kitchen sink and in the basement, and a refrigerator with beer in it, yet my brother and I turned out OK. We never had to sneak around behind our parents' backs.

I always respected the limitations my parents placed. My parents never just said NO, rather they explained the reasoning behind their decisions. Many times I disagreed, however I still listened to them. When I was young, they made their authority clear (in a good way) and my brother and I knew that it was best to listen to what they said, and their rules were for our own good.

My brother and I were given a lot of freedom when we were children, however we never abused it. We never had V-chips, iPod volume controls, or locks on every cabinet in my house. I think those things piss kids off even more and make them want to go overboard when they're finally given the freedoms to see/touch/do those 'prohibited' things. We were always taught responsibility. When it came to most things, my parents usually didn't just come out and say no, rather I was free to make my own choices and I would have to suffer the consequences.

Maybe my brother and I were just exceptions, but most people that I associate with are the same way.

Re:It doesn't absolve parent of anything

[Anonymous Coward]

mrginal

Thanks grammar cop.

Take it from example

[overacid]

My Grandfather (94 years of age) grew up in much different circumstances to what we experienced as kids, and what today's kids are experiencing. I.e. He most likely never listened to loud music in his lifetime on purpose, or intimately through the use of headphones.

He is now as deaf as a door knob, and has been for quite some time now. Having to repeat everything thrice even with the mechanical help of the hearing-aid. It just makes me wonder if our generation and, worse, our children's generation will be deaf by the time they are 40.

FACT: Listening to loud deafening music for extended periods of time will cause Tinnitus

I, for one, agree with Apple's implementation. Children don't know what's good for them. Their parents do.

Seems to me...

[sottitron]

that the people posting to this don't even have iPods... This is a great feature to make up for a different 'feature' that Apple should never have shipped in the first place. The single biggest problem I have with the iPod is that the default function fo the wheel while music is playing is to control the volume. So if you forget for a second that you aren't navigating a menu, you tend to turn the volume ALL THE WAY UP. That is quite annoying. Honestly, I think the volume control should be buried beneath a click to the center button... The most frustrating thing is that this update is only for current iPods (minus the shuffle.) Guess I gotta upgrade (just like if I want to run Java 1.5 apps...)

Re:Seems to me...

[punkr0x]

There is only one time when I'm stupid enough to blast my ears with my earbuds: I listen to my iPod in my car, and for the iTrip to output without too much staticy background noise, the best thing to do is turn the volume way up on the iPod. So then when I go to listen with my earbuds later, I forget the volume is turned way up, and KABLAMMO! The volume limiter wouldn't save me here, and hiding the volume controls away somewhere would only make my situation worse as I couldn't immediately rub the clickwheel to turn it down!
I think it would be neat if they could maximize the output on the earbuds themselves, thereby making it impossible for me to injure myself by my own stupidity while still maintaining the functionality I need.

Build noise cancelling into the iPod

[Goonie]

While this is a good idea, there are other technological measures that can be used to make headphones safer - notably, using noise cancelling technology so people don't need to turn their headphones up so loud in the first place.

I suspect the money it'd cost would be paid back by lower treatment costs for hearing loss down the track.

Re:Build noise cancelling into the iPod

[Anonymous Codger]

This is an interesting idea - I have found my cheap noise-cancelling headphones to be a godsend on long airplane flights (too bad they broke).

The problem with doing this in the iPod is that, to be effective, the ambient noise must be sampled at the point where it would be entering the ear - the headphones. A set of noise-cancelling headphones has a tiny microphone in each earpiece. If you had a noise-cancelling iPod, you'd still need the mikes in the earpieces, with an extra wire to the iPod from each one.

The iPod would end up with a proprietary earphone jack. You'd be stuck with the earphones that Apple supplies until some third party comes up with replacements. The replacements would be more expensive than regular earphones, and everyone would carp on Slashdot about it.

You might as well put the noise-cancelation hardware in the phones or their cable, which puts us right where we are now - if you want noise-cancelling phones, just buy some. Lots of companies sell them at prices from around $30 to a couple hundred (Bose).

Sosumi.wav

[billcopc]

I think I've found the solution to my income problems: I'll move to the states and sue every company that's ever made any product I've ever used for any whimsical reason that comes across my amphetamine-enhanced cranium.

First I'll sue Ginsu for that time I cut the tip of my thumb while stabbing into a can of beans, and lost sensation in part of my finger. It's Ginsu's fault that I was being a dumb alpha male, of course!

Then I'll sue Microsoft for that time I smacked my laptop onto my forehead in frustration. It's their fault my hacked custom theme DLL crashed the UI, of course!

And then I'll sue Sony for selling me a TV that lets me watch reality shows. It's their fault I don't like reality shows, of course!

But I certainly won't sue Apple for making me hard of hearing. That's nobody's fault, I'm proud to be a music-loving stereophile!

This one goes to 11

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally if i cant listen to my music at a loud and deafening level then i'd just rather not listen to it all.

parents are going to set volume in a quiet home

[chocolatetrumpet]

How many parents are going to step out onto a noisy street to set the max volume on the iPod?

You know they're going to set it in their quiet house. Then, when the child goes for a walk down the street, the music will be inaudible.

While I try to keep my iPod playing as soft as I can stand, I'm not going to turn it up every time a car goes by and then turn it down. I also refuse to simply miss content while loud noises are happening. So, I just tend to listen at a moderately loud level.

I am still amazed every time though, how the iPod can sound pretty loud - until a car goes by and you can't hear a damn thing.

Parent remote control

[Anonymous Coward]

I once wrote a program that runs in the background of an unsuspecting roommate's computer and allowed me to adjust his volume gradually whenever it got too loud. Maybe parents should have a similar device?

And they didn't fix the old version?

[askegg]

I have an 4G iPod (colour) and upgraded to the last version of the software last week. It killed it. Updates were extremely slow and nothing I did helped; until I reverted to the previous version. I notice this release says "all other versions are the same". I think I will give it a miss......

iRiver H300...

[Shanep]

an update to the iPod nano and 5th generation iPod that allows the user to set the maximum volume level.

I'm glad to see Apple gave people the option. My iRiver H340 firmware had an update which reduced the maximum volume substantially, I believe which was in response to some French law suit about hearing loss and portable music devices. Being Australian, I always flashed mine with the fimware which came with it, the EU firmware.

Gladly, I found that I could just flash my H340 with the Korean firmware and still choose English for my menus, get the other features and fixes in the new firmware update and avoid the huge loss in volume. If this happens to the US model of the H300 series, US customers might not be so lucky, since I believe the US model can only take the US firmware.

You can use the iPod Volume Booster

[trolleymusic]

http://volumebooster.tangerine-soft.de/

dynamic range

[pintomp3]

i think it would be better to have a switch that reduces the dynamic range of the music. i think a lot of people turn the volume up until they can hear the music clearly, including the details. in a loud environment, this forces people to jack up the volume so high the louder parts of the music become too loud. of course getting sealed headphones is still better, but this would help no matter what headphones u use.

Re:dynamic range

[punkr0x]

But you have to realize that headphones aren't the only use of the iPod! I use mine on various sets of speakers/fm transmitters a LOT more than I use headphones.
And well the point is, I like dynamics!

Sennheiser HD570s

[ProfessionalCookie]

Really? I have a pair of Sennheiser HD570's and my iPod drives them quite well. Cranking the iPod is painful. I have a 2Gen iPod. Additionally I use my old HD280 Pros with my iPod when I mow the lawn (they're closed). They work well.

Re:since when does natural selection reward stupid

[klang]

Let's just remove the warninglables off of everything and let natural selection take care of the rest!

I totally agree!

(Nobody takes responsability for being a moron anymore)

Does not address one of my primary concerns

[Guspaz]

What volume limit is good? The volume level isn't measured in decibels, just a sliding bar. What about going between songs that are very quiet and very loud? I've had the Sound Check feature on my iPod and in iTunes enabled for ages (supposedly it normalizes between songs), but it doesn't seem to do anything.

With the volume limit, it seems like either I'd set a limit that would be good for loud songs, but make it hard to hear quiet songs, or set a limit that would be good for quiet songs, but still too loud for loud songs.

So, to me, this might solve the problem of preventing deafening volumes, but it doesn't make my listening experience any better. Really, what I want is for Sound Check to just do what it is suppose to. If all my songs played back at similar volume levels, I wouldn't need to worry about turning up volume for a quiet song only to be deafened by the next one in the queue.

Since when was the iPod too loud??

[js_sebastian]

I almost never turn my ipod up over halfway when I'm listening to the headphones.

Are the new iPods louder than the old ones? I have a 4g and I disagree. Listening at half volume may be okay if you're in the silence of your own room.. but if you're traveling around, on a train, a bus, walking on a street with traffic going by (which is where I use it mostly) at half volume it will be completely inaudible.

Re:Since when was the iPod too loud??

[Netscryer]

But that's when it's damaging your ears -- when you turn it up to hear over the sound of the traffic/train/other noise. I think you can buy noise cancelling earphones to combat this -- they block out the external noise so you can listen to the iPod at a lower volume.

Power-on volume a better idea

[Belgand]

Frankly I don't really care that much about this as it doesn't sound like it'll affect me at all (partially because I wouldn't use it and partially because they probably won't update my 2nd Gen iPod). What would be nice is something that my reciever has: the ability to set a power-on volume. Sometimes I'll turn my volume up rather loud for a number of reasons. Maybe I'm in a loud enviroment and can't hear, maybe I'm running it into my car or receiver and want to use a bit more power rather than ramping up their own volume too high. As soon as I'm done with that it's likely that I won't recall the need to lower the volume again so the next time I turn it on I'm blasted by an abnormally high volume level.

A simple on/off checkbox and a volume slider to set the desired power-on volume (although technically I guess it just comes out of the sleep mode) would mean a lot more to my hearing than this will.

How to avoid hearing loss from headphones

[sokoban]

Only use lower isolation headphones in a quiet environment and higher isolation headphones in a louder environment.

That means ditch the crappy earbuds. Go with an in ear monitor such as the etymotic er6, Shure E2c or anything by Ultimate ears for listening in a loud environment. By having 20+ db of isolation, you can listen to music much more quietly while still getting better detail.

So do they still go up to 10????

[sokoban]

Steve Jobs: The numbers all go to nine. Look, right across the board, nine, nine, nine and...
apple fanboi: Oh, I see. And most mp3 players go up to ten?
Steve Jobs: Exactly.
apple fanboi: Does that mean it's quieter? Is it any quieter?
Steve Jobs: Well, it's one quieter, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
apple fanboi: I don't know.
Steve Jobs: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
apple fanboi: Put it up to nine.
Steve Jobs: Nine. Exactly. One quieter.
apple fanboi: Why don't you just make ten quieter and make ten be the top number and make that a little quieter?
Steve Jobs: [pause] These go to nine.

Semi-OT: Updater under WINE

[xerxesdaphat]

Hi. I have an iPod video and run Ubuntu primarily; but until recently I was using a Windows PC to update my iPod/add songs. I use gtkpod now for the song synching, but is there any way to update my iPod from my linux laptop? Does wine work? Or can I somehow extract the firmware image from the updater and load it using dd or something? Thank-you (and sorry for being a little OT).

Parents

[Anonymous Coward]

Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount.

Good thing I already moved out, otherwise (if I had one), my parents would set it to "not loud enough to hear the words". They used to tell me to turn the TV down, until I couldn't understand what they were saying on TV, and as soon as I turned it up to be able to hear it again, they told me to turn it down again.

(Some) parents are too worried about hearing loss, to the point where listening to anything is impossible.

Oh, and btw, before you say that I already damaged my hearing, I refuse to have any clocks on the wall because of the f**king ticking noise they make. Sometimes even my wrist watch gets annoying. Tick tick tick tick tick...

Worse Problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

That is great and all but the problem is when the ipod turns up the volume by itself when you do not want it to! Anyone else have the problem of the ipod volume changing drastically up and down if it is not locked and your cell phone rings or you get a text message. I commute on the train into work everyday and a lot of the time I have my phone out and my Ipod in my pocket. When it rings and I forgot to lock it, my ears pay dearly for that mistake!

Re:since when does natural selection reward stupid

[Seriocomical]

I'm afraid that I have to reluctantly disagree. :-(
Since the legal system in your country enables one to sue and even have a reasonable probability of winning such cases, thereby acquiring mucho $$$ and therefore preferential survival and reproductive advantages, the logical conclusion is that those who do so, far from being retards, are actually exploiting a viable ecological niche and are, arguably, better adapted to their environment than people like you are!

Typical American overreaction

[mOOzilla]

Teh OMG tehyr taking aawy ma rights! *sighs*

Did anyone actually install this update?

[Keyslapper]

Cause I did.

Guess what? No Volume Limit.

Ok, I skimmed over the documentation first time round, and it was late, but now I'm looking at the Apple site directions, verifying my iPod software version (20G iPod w/Color Display, v1.2.1) and there's no bloody Volume Limit.

Now, I know I don't need it - unlike many people these days, I at least try to take responsibility for my own actions. I don't leave it loud enough to be uncomfortable - generally low enough that I can hear people talking around me. Still, I'm a nerd, and more importantly, a parent and uncle. My daughter, niece, and nephew all have shuffles, so I should at least know how to work it for them, and of course, I was just plain curious how the new bell worked.

So, did anyone else go looking for it? Did you find it?

Re:Did anyone actually install this update?

[Keyslapper]

Well, now I know why I didn't find it. Seems that Apple has put the volume limit in for gen 5 iPods only. They did mention that it was only for a specific version, but I went dyslexic or something when I read it. They don't explicitly say the volume limit isn't there for certain models.

So, just to let everyone know, though I'm sure there won't be too many people reading this post now, if you have any ipod released prior to the nano or iPod video, you don't get a volume limit.

I wonder if this is a business decision or a technical one? Not that I wouldn't love one of those iPod Videos, but I did just buy the one I have, why would I sell it for half price and spend twice as much is I did for this one after only 7 or 8 months?

Useful for my situation

[WolfZombie]

I use my iPod mostly for sitting in traffic, and right now I have a tape adapter to connect it with my stereo. With the volume too loud, it gives a lot of distortion through the stereo, with it about 85% it sounds perfect. The problem is 85% is too loud for headphones, so when I use it outside of the car I have to change the volume. With the volume indicator not having a numeric value, it is nearly impossible to find that perfect tape adapter volume. Now I can set that as my limit and my problem is solved.

I know this wasn't their intention with this update, but it should work great in solving my problem for my situation.

Now if they would just have an update where you could turn the backlight on by pressing a button without it changing the menu selection/volume/song...

Re:Useful for my situation

[kilfarsnar]

"Now if they would just have an update where you could turn the backlight on by pressing a button without it changing the menu selection/volume/song..."

Hold down the Menu button for a few seconds. It turns on the backlight, but doesn't change anything else. You're welcome. :-)

Re:Useful for my situation

[punkr0x]

Doesn't that add the song to the "On-The-Go Playlist?" Not that it really hurts anything, I just have an unexplained hatred for that on-the-go playlist.

Re:Useful for my situation

[WolfZombie]

The problem with that is having to hold it down for a few seconds while driving. Taking eyes off the road is bad enough, having to take them off the road for a few seconds is a big deal. I know you can adjust the volume to turn it on, or push the middle button (although that does something with the On-the-go playlist). A simple light function seems more important than that on-the-go playlist.

Re:Useful for my situation

[Iconoc|ast]

I have a feeling you would object to all the emails I send from my phone while driving....

Re:Useful for my situation

[kilfarsnar]

No, that's the Select button (in the middle). The Menu button is at the top of the wheel; or second from the left on the 3rd gen iPod.

Re:Useful for my situation

[kilfarsnar]

"The problem with that is having to hold it down for a few seconds while driving. Taking eyes off the road is bad enough, having to take them off the road for a few seconds is a big deal."

Well, you could just watch for the light in your peripheral vision. But I get around this by setting the backlight to a 10 second timer. Whenever I hit a button or the scroll wheel the light comes on automatically and stays on for 10 seconds. Yeah, uses a little more power, but not much.

Re:Useful for my situation

[punkr0x]

Ohhhh, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification!

Stupid

[Datoyminaytah]

This is stupid because they can only set a specific decibel level based on the specifications of the earbuds that come with the ipod and how far into the "average ear" they go.

Cram them in tight and the db level goes up.

Use another set of earbuds or headphones with higher sensitivity and the db level goes up. Not even amplified, just a higher sensitivity level!

If by chance you are using a different set of headphones that are less sensitive than the stock earbuds, that is when you really need to be able to turn up the volume.

Ridiculous - May as well sue Sony and TicketMaster

[Vandil X]

While I applaud Apple for making this Volume Control-lockout feature, the problem of listening to portable media devices at too high a sound level is something that should fall under common sense.

This is the software equivalent of the "WARNING: COFFEE IS HOT!" label on commercial coffee cups.

I guess this means I should hire a lawyer and demand that Sony send me a re-engineered Cassette-based Walkman to replace the one I used in 1985 so that I can have one with a volume limiter. Perhaps I can say that it has already caused two decades of hearing loss...

Maybe I can sue TicketMaster for not giving me earplugs and a warning letter when buying concert tickets for indoor/front row/near-the-speakers seats...

America needs to stop being offended and looking to manufacturers to install child locks on everything.

Apple's 30th anniversary

[Heian-794]

This is Apple's big 30th anniversary announcement? More nanny-ism in their products? Excuse me while I call my broker and sell short. ^_^;

Making this optional is the way to go, but...

[argent]

... my daughter's iPod mini doesn't have this option. Any hacks to back-port this to previous iPods?

you obviously are not a parent

[Anonymous Coward]

or you would realize how much of a useless rant your comment was, and how it had no relation to actual parenting.

actually, apple did this more to stem the onslaught of ambulance chasers than to provide a crutch to your post-apocalyptic limbaugh-angst-ridden world, but let's go with your version:

there are kids who have been raised by parents who are among the most kind, enlightened, resourceful, smart, street-savvy, creative, caring and down to earth people, and some of those kids are in jail every chance they get.

your reaction is the sort of thing real parents and teachers dread - someone who has no idea what is actually involved and is more likely exhibiting latent regrets of their own upbringing.

the typical adolescent can see about a few hours into the future in terms of consequence. it's not parenting - it's congnitive development. you can look it up. if you think they care what happens to their hearing because some 60 year old former rocker says so - you're dreaming.

a few years back, there was a piece done on teaching kids gun safety in an educational unit, designed by the sort of thing most people would call good teaching. they set up a system where they would instruct kids, show them examples, model behavior, demonstrate, make them 'prove' they 'got' the idea that they should never touch a gun, in short - they did what you propose - prevent things by nurturing and "actual parenting" and "actual teaching" then after an entire course of this, the grownups were called out of the room by a shill at the end of the unit. what did the kids do? they went right for the guns - they had them in their ears, in their mouths, pointed at each other - everything they were told not to do.

and that was guns.

good luck with the ipods.

Re:since when does natural selection reward stupid

[Ash-Fox]

Wasn't the issue with the lady that split coffee, that she got 3rd degree burns?

Second battery...

[Goonie]

The reason I suggested putting the hardware in the iPod is that the additional hardware required would be minimal (making it cheaper) and that it might mean you wouldn't need an additional battery.

But, at the very least, if I were Apple I'd very seriously look at bundling noise-cancelling headphones with my next-generation players. Adding a USP and protecting the world's hearing in one swoop doesn't sound like a bad idea to me...