Deciding what is or is not significant surgery is completely subjective. You claiming it isn't has absolutely nothing to do with it.
"Circumcision isn't significant surgury (in that it doesn't affect deep tissue, only skin)"
It DOES affect deep tissue,by removing a natural barrier that is intended to protect it.
"circumcision makes a penis easier to clean, MORE VISUALLY ATTRACTIVE"
I get it now. You're circumcised, and you believe that you're better than those who aren't.
How disgustingly sad that you try to use aesthetics as an argument FOR a surgery that is completely unnecessary.
"An operation that is a reasonale male comparison to female genital mutilation would include signifant damage to the glans (that's the sensitive "head" of your penis)"
Circumcision does damage the head of the penis, again by destroying a natural protective barrier, and desenstizing the tissue underneath. You KNOW this, yet dismiss it because youhave an agenda.
It's become pretty clear that you're not really interested in discussing the pros and cons, and that you've made up your mind.
No one will think less of you because your penis has been mutilated. Stop trying to squeeze everyone into the same sad little box you live in.
Honestly, MORE ATTRACTIVE? Goddamit man, little boys grow up WITH NO PENIS AT ALL because of this surgery (did you bother to look up THOSE facts?) and your argument boils down to
1) slightly easier to clean 2) MAY protect against AIDS (not proven in any way, so I dismiss this one) 3) MORE ATTRACTIVE? To whom? Who are YOU quoting on that one? You have to know this is a moronic argument.
I really think you need to spend some time with a group of young men who have lost their penises due to this (elective) surgery. Then consider why you think it's ok to risk destroying a penis because you think it looks better.
"There's a plus point that beats the heck out of a lot arguments against, if proven"
I would have to question how your tally sheet looks in this regard.
Potentially destroying an infant's genitals, and definitely mutilating them, is a huge price to pay for some small protection against AIDS.
The fact that AIDS is approaching the state where it can be treated as though it were chronic (see Magic Johnson) means your argument has even less merit.
But what you need to think of is this, MOST of the circumcisions done in the US were done without any concern for AIDS at all. Using it as justification after the fact is a ridiculous idea.
If you are genuinely concerned about AIDS, consider how many resources that are used for circumcision (and the lawsuits from failed circumcisions and infections) could be diverted to AIDS research, contraceptive education, and assistance to infected individuals.
"Any significant surgury is dangerous. General anaesthesia has about a 1 in 700000 chance of killing you. Genital surgury can cause infections and other problems. AIDS can be effectively treated now with antivirals."
Pick any of the above for avoiding circumcisions.
You seem like a bright enough guy. It makes me wonder what the motivation is for supporting (it seems you support it at least) a surgery that is unnecessary, potentially dangerous, and damaging to normal function.
So, I ask you, apart from the (thin) possibility that you may garner some mild protection from AIDS, what other reason can you give to justify mutilating an infant's genitalia.
And if you still come out in favor of male genital mutilation, then explain the inconsistency as it regards to females.
The truth is we do it for cultural/religious reasons, when it is could be avoided entirely.
So, given the opportunity, you show your colors. Now it's pretty obvious that despit all your talk, when given the chance to DO something, you turn coward.
God you're a chickenshit, but that was obvious from the start.
And save your excuses. We all know that people like you talk, then turn tail when confronted. You proved it once again.
"But one last thing - if you had been doing what you're doing to me now in person, you'd probably be arrested by now. Harassment is illegal, you know, and you've just admitted that you intend to harass me."
One last thing to you you disgusting piece of trash.
You lied, you got caught, then you failed to own up. SAD.
And the last time I checked, I STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. I can SAY what I want, so save your pathetic "harassment" claims. You AGAIN have no clue what you're talking about.
But in case you want one, I was PROTESTING you. I intend to PROTEST you, moron. Once again, your ridiculous attempts to skirt the issue have caused you to say something stupid.
God I wish I DID have the chance to say this to you in person, just so you couldn't hide like the weasel you have proved to be.
Another LIE. Why do you INSIST on lying, even when I've made it clear that there are clinical uses for it. Now I'm sure you're a liar, because you responded to MY post, in which I stated it is still used for eye surgery.
So, what is your excuse now, LIEUTENANT LIAR?
"It's by discussion that we reduce misinformation."
No, It's by discussion that I am reducing the misinformation, you CONTINUE to lie, intentionally or not. Regardless of what you claim to know, the facts, which you clearly failed to bother with, prove you wrong.
Over and over you attempted to appear to be an authority, and when called on it, you tried to change the focus of the discussion.
Anyone who reads this will probably wonder why I'm so zealous, but they'll KNOW you are a sad, patheitc piece of trash interested in SOUNDING like an authority without actually knowing anything.
You lied. Admit it. It MAY have been a mistake, but when you typed this
"We were having this discussion further up the thread and you'd recieved a reply"
That's when we knew that you had the FACTS (from the very post you admit replying to) and still chose to spread misinformation. What is that other than a LIAR?
Another LIE. Why do you INSIST on lying, even when I've made it clear that there are clinical uses for it. Now I'm sure you're a liar, because you responded to MY post, in which I stated it is still used for eye surgery.
So, what is your excuse now, Lieutenant LIAR?
"It's by discussion that we reduce misinformation."
No, It's by discussion that I am reducing the misinformation, you CONTINUE to lie, intentionally or not. Regardless of what you claim to know, the facts, which you clearly failed to bother with, prove you wrong.
Over and over you attempted to appear to be an authority, and when called on it, you tried to change the focus of the discussion.
Anyone who reads this will probably wonder why I'm so zealous, but they'll KNOW you are a sad, patheitc piece of trash interested in SOUNDING like an authority without actually knowing anything.
You lied. Admit it. It MAY have been a mistake, but when you typed this
"We were having this discussion further up the thread and you'd recieved a reply"
That's when we knew that you had the FACTS (from the very post you admit replying to) and still chose to spread misinformation. What is that other than a LIAR?
Another LIE. Why do you INSIST on lying, even when I've made it clear that there are clinical uses for it. Now I'm sure you're a liar, because you responded to MY post, in which I stated it is still used for eye surgery.
So, what is your excuse now, Lieutenant LIAR?
"It's by discussion that we reduce misinformation."
No, It's by discussion that I am reducing the misinformation, you CONTINUE to lie, intentionally or not. Regardless of what you claim to know, the facts, which you clearly failed to bother with, prove you wrong.
Over and over you attempted to appear to be an authority, and when called on it, you tried to change the focus of the discussion.
Anyone who reads this will probably wonder why I'm so zealous, but they'll KNOW you are a sad, patheitc piece of trash interested in SOUNDING like an authority without actually knowing anything.
You lied. Admit it. It MAY have been a mistake, but when you typed this
"We were having this discussion further up the thread and you'd recieved a reply"
That's when we knew that you had the FACTS (from the very post you admit replying to) and still chose to spread misinformation. What is that other than a LIAR?
And you look, if you think I plan to stop before you admit you completely fucked up while pretending to be an authority, you need to get a clue.
This could all be over if you'd just admit you pooched it, and take it your whipping like a man.
YET YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ADDRESSED THE ISSUE, YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT ACTING LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED WILL MAKE IT GO AWAY. IT WON'T.
Be a man. Just this once, try it, you might find your sad existence is a little better for it.
And no, I plan to follow you and post, drawing attention to you lack of credibility every time I visit, just to entertain myself. It's certailny more fun than reading the spew that cowardly sacks like you try to pass off as expertise.
No wife, and my dog wouldn't have you. I'm sure you smell like shit (which would probably work for her) but she is a straight dog, which means she doesn't go for bitches.
By the way, I'm clearly better at insults than you. Want to try you hand at out debating me now?
Never mind, I can tell by your name that you think cursing and insulting people is a good idea.
How pathetic your life must be that you hide behind a computer and call names, fully aware that if we ever met, you woudn't even be able to look me in the eye, much less try me like you have here.
Nice try, but you still didn't address the question, nor the mistake you made attributing remarks to me that I didn't make.
So, just admit you fucked up and eat your crow.
"You know, there are a number of therapists that can help you with your anger problem. I suggest you find one"
You know, there are a number of OPTOMETRISTS who can helpyou with your inability to SEE WHO MADE A POST. I suggest you find one (or learn how to read).
NO MORON I NEVER MADE THAT CLAIM. LOOK AT WHO MADE THAT CLAIM. IT WASN'T ME.
I asked you to justify YOUR claims after SOMEONE else gave stats that suggested you may have it wrong.
YOU responded with a ridiculous statment about not being able to compare different groups, DESPIT THE FACT THAT YOU DID EXACLTY THAT AT THE START OF THIS THREAD.
Goddam, man, it's no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about.
Slashdot Mirror
"Linux claims Stallman doesn't matter"
I thought Red Hat didn't have a license. Primarily because "Red Hat" is trademarked so the "linux" part doesn't need to be.
Deciding what is or is not significant surgery is completely subjective. You claiming it isn't has absolutely nothing to do with it.
"Circumcision isn't significant surgury (in that it doesn't affect deep tissue, only skin)"
It DOES affect deep tissue,by removing a natural barrier that is intended to protect it.
"circumcision makes a penis easier to clean, MORE VISUALLY ATTRACTIVE"
I get it now. You're circumcised, and you believe that you're better than those who aren't.
How disgustingly sad that you try to use aesthetics as an argument FOR a surgery that is completely unnecessary.
"An operation that is a reasonale male comparison to female genital mutilation would include signifant damage to the glans (that's the sensitive "head" of your penis)"
Circumcision does damage the head of the penis, again by destroying a natural protective barrier, and desenstizing the tissue underneath. You KNOW this, yet dismiss it because youhave an agenda.
It's become pretty clear that you're not really interested in discussing the pros and cons, and that you've made up your mind.
No one will think less of you because your penis has been mutilated. Stop trying to squeeze everyone into the same sad little box you live in.
Honestly, MORE ATTRACTIVE? Goddamit man, little boys grow up WITH NO PENIS AT ALL because of this surgery (did you bother to look up THOSE facts?) and your argument boils down to
1) slightly easier to clean
2) MAY protect against AIDS (not proven in any way, so I dismiss this one)
3) MORE ATTRACTIVE? To whom? Who are YOU quoting on that one? You have to know this is a moronic argument.
I really think you need to spend some time with a group of young men who have lost their penises due to this (elective) surgery. Then consider why you think it's ok to risk destroying a penis because you think it looks better.
Ok then replace "Ford" with Mitsubishi.
And then try to tell me there are no Mitsubshi parts in Toyotas.
RMS wants a little recognition, and while I understand that, it seems... distasteful to focus so much on squeezing out some small bit of credit.
Give me a one to one, or one to two or three ratio like there is in a home school, and I'll destroy that gap easily.
Apples and oranges.
"There's a plus point that beats the heck out of a lot arguments against, if proven"
I would have to question how your tally sheet looks in this regard.
Potentially destroying an infant's genitals, and definitely mutilating them, is a huge price to pay for some small protection against AIDS.
The fact that AIDS is approaching the state where it can be treated as though it were chronic (see Magic Johnson) means your argument has even less merit.
But what you need to think of is this, MOST of the circumcisions done in the US were done without any concern for AIDS at all. Using it as justification after the fact is a ridiculous idea.
If you are genuinely concerned about AIDS, consider how many resources that are used for circumcision (and the lawsuits from failed circumcisions and infections) could be diverted to AIDS research, contraceptive education, and assistance to infected individuals.
Your priorities are in the wrong place, it seems.
"Any significant surgury is dangerous. General anaesthesia has about a 1 in 700000 chance of killing you. Genital surgury can cause infections and other problems. AIDS can be effectively treated now with antivirals."
Pick any of the above for avoiding circumcisions.
You seem like a bright enough guy. It makes me wonder what the motivation is for supporting (it seems you support it at least) a surgery that is unnecessary, potentially dangerous, and damaging to normal function.
So, I ask you, apart from the (thin) possibility that you may garner some mild protection from AIDS, what other reason can you give to justify mutilating an infant's genitalia.
And if you still come out in favor of male genital mutilation, then explain the inconsistency as it regards to females.
The truth is we do it for cultural/religious reasons, when it is could be avoided entirely.
Because it isn't about outsourcing?
Did you even RTFA?
Never mind what was I thinking...
"I don't live anywhere close to you"
Yeah, your mom's basement isn't all that close.
So, given the opportunity, you show your colors. Now it's pretty obvious that despit all your talk, when given the chance to DO something, you turn coward.
God you're a chickenshit, but that was obvious from the start.
And save your excuses. We all know that people like you talk, then turn tail when confronted. You proved it once again.
"It must really upset you that someone as low as me considers you unworthy to talk to."
Then why are you still talking to me?
Right.
"But one last thing - if you had been doing what you're doing to me now in person, you'd probably be arrested by now. Harassment is illegal, you know, and you've just admitted that you intend to harass me."
One last thing to you you disgusting piece of trash.
You lied, you got caught, then you failed to own up. SAD.
And the last time I checked, I STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. I can SAY what I want, so save your pathetic "harassment" claims. You AGAIN have no clue what you're talking about.
But in case you want one, I was PROTESTING you. I intend to PROTEST you, moron. Once again, your ridiculous attempts to skirt the issue have caused you to say something stupid.
God I wish I DID have the chance to say this to you in person, just so you couldn't hide like the weasel you have proved to be.
"there are no remaining clinical uses for it"
Another LIE. Why do you INSIST on lying, even when I've made it clear that there are clinical uses for it. Now I'm sure you're a liar, because you responded to MY post, in which I stated it is still used for eye surgery.
So, what is your excuse now, LIEUTENANT LIAR?
"It's by discussion that we reduce misinformation."
No, It's by discussion that I am reducing the misinformation, you CONTINUE to lie, intentionally or not. Regardless of what you claim to know, the facts, which you clearly failed to bother with, prove you wrong.
Over and over you attempted to appear to be an authority, and when called on it, you tried to change the focus of the discussion.
Anyone who reads this will probably wonder why I'm so zealous, but they'll KNOW you are a sad, patheitc piece of trash interested in SOUNDING like an authority without actually knowing anything.
You lied. Admit it. It MAY have been a mistake, but when you typed this
"We were having this discussion further up the thread and you'd recieved a reply"
That's when we knew that you had the FACTS (from the very post you admit replying to) and still chose to spread misinformation. What is that other than a LIAR?
"there are no remaining clinical uses for it"
Another LIE. Why do you INSIST on lying, even when I've made it clear that there are clinical uses for it. Now I'm sure you're a liar, because you responded to MY post, in which I stated it is still used for eye surgery.
So, what is your excuse now, Lieutenant LIAR?
"It's by discussion that we reduce misinformation."
No, It's by discussion that I am reducing the misinformation, you CONTINUE to lie, intentionally or not. Regardless of what you claim to know, the facts, which you clearly failed to bother with, prove you wrong.
Over and over you attempted to appear to be an authority, and when called on it, you tried to change the focus of the discussion.
Anyone who reads this will probably wonder why I'm so zealous, but they'll KNOW you are a sad, patheitc piece of trash interested in SOUNDING like an authority without actually knowing anything.
You lied. Admit it. It MAY have been a mistake, but when you typed this
"We were having this discussion further up the thread and you'd recieved a reply"
That's when we knew that you had the FACTS (from the very post you admit replying to) and still chose to spread misinformation. What is that other than a LIAR?
"there are no remaining clinical uses for it"
Another LIE. Why do you INSIST on lying, even when I've made it clear that there are clinical uses for it. Now I'm sure you're a liar, because you responded to MY post, in which I stated it is still used for eye surgery.
So, what is your excuse now, Lieutenant LIAR?
"It's by discussion that we reduce misinformation."
No, It's by discussion that I am reducing the misinformation, you CONTINUE to lie, intentionally or not. Regardless of what you claim to know, the facts, which you clearly failed to bother with, prove you wrong.
Over and over you attempted to appear to be an authority, and when called on it, you tried to change the focus of the discussion.
Anyone who reads this will probably wonder why I'm so zealous, but they'll KNOW you are a sad, patheitc piece of trash interested in SOUNDING like an authority without actually knowing anything.
You lied. Admit it. It MAY have been a mistake, but when you typed this
"We were having this discussion further up the thread and you'd recieved a reply"
That's when we knew that you had the FACTS (from the very post you admit replying to) and still chose to spread misinformation. What is that other than a LIAR?
And you look, if you think I plan to stop before you admit you completely fucked up while pretending to be an authority, you need to get a clue.
This could all be over if you'd just admit you pooched it, and take it your whipping like a man.
YET YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ADDRESSED THE ISSUE, YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT ACTING LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED WILL MAKE IT GO AWAY. IT WON'T.
Be a man. Just this once, try it, you might find your sad existence is a little better for it.
And no, I plan to follow you and post, drawing attention to you lack of credibility every time I visit, just to entertain myself. It's certailny more fun than reading the spew that cowardly sacks like you try to pass off as expertise.
Seriously, you are a pathetic weasel who fucks up, then expects it to go away.
WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THAT?
You screwed up, and keep acting like it is MY fault.
Who exactly needs therapy, Mr. Delusional?
Orlando, Fl. Ifwm@hotmail.com, ANYTIME YOU WANT TO TRY IN REAL LIFE, LET ME KNOW.
But you won't because you know what would happen.
Shut the fuck up. You already proved that you have no idea what you're talking about, when you accused ME of making a statement someone else made.
Own up to it you pathetic weasel, admit you fucked up.
You won't though, because admitting you're wrong would kill you.
Shut the fuck up. You already proved that you have no idea what you're talking about, when you accused ME of making a statement someone else made.
Own up to it you pathetic weasel, admit you fucked up.
You won't though, because admitting you're wrong would probably kill you.
Shut the fuck up. You already proved that you have no idea what you're talking about, when you accused ME of making a statement someone else made.
Own up to it you pathetic weasel, admit you fucked up.
You won't though, because admitting you're wrong would probably kill you.
"When you bash liberals, you don't know what the hell you are talking about."
Yeah, I started it.
So, you aren't any good at debate, you aren't any good at insulting people (three consecutive losses in a row) AND your memory sucks.
The good news for YOU is that tommorrow is another day, and based on your faulty memory, you'll have no memory of getting your ass handed to you.
You WILL still be my bitch though.
No wife, and my dog wouldn't have you. I'm sure you smell like shit (which would probably work for her) but she is a straight dog, which means she doesn't go for bitches.
By the way, I'm clearly better at insults than you. Want to try you hand at out debating me now?
Never mind, I can tell by your name that you think cursing and insulting people is a good idea.
How pathetic your life must be that you hide behind a computer and call names, fully aware that if we ever met, you woudn't even be able to look me in the eye, much less try me like you have here.
Dude, fuck you.
You offered DUMB, WRONG advice to someone, and would have made his situation WORSE.
That part about stage 4 and rem sleep that you ignored, that's the part that would help him feel better.
So, if you want me to stay off your back, stop making STUPID, WRONG comments.
Nice try, but you still didn't address the question, nor the mistake you made attributing remarks to me that I didn't make.
So, just admit you fucked up and eat your crow.
"You know, there are a number of therapists that can help you with your anger problem. I suggest you find one"
You know, there are a number of OPTOMETRISTS who can helpyou with your inability to SEE WHO MADE A POST. I suggest you find one (or learn how to read).
NO MORON I NEVER MADE THAT CLAIM. LOOK AT WHO MADE THAT CLAIM. IT WASN'T ME.
I asked you to justify YOUR claims after SOMEONE else gave stats that suggested you may have it wrong.
YOU responded with a ridiculous statment about not being able to compare different groups, DESPIT THE FACT THAT YOU DID EXACLTY THAT AT THE START OF THIS THREAD.
Goddam, man, it's no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about.