Just because I use phrases applicable to the high-level people I work with I should be reviled? I su[pose to you peans working at the bottom that seems fair, but you'll never earn the $$$ I'm on with a narrow-minded attitude like that.
I shouldn't do this, but I just can't help it.
Ok, Mr Big shot, I have discovered one thing since I've been working with computers (and it has been quite a few years now) is that the big level marketing people have discovered they can resell the same crap over and over if they come up with fancy new words for the same old stuff. The major difference between you and the professional IT/development type people here is that we don't need fancy words to describe whats going on. You and your high level know nothings may have your fancy words, but how long will you be in business without us low level peons who actually do the real work and skip over the fancy phrases for the same old shit?
If that is the way you think of others you wouldn't last long as a project manager. Fancy words do not imply knowledge to those of us who do understand something about computers and programming. So skip the "Why is everyone getting upset" act and face the fact that you do not know what you are talking about. Your post was as bad as the zdnet artical linking all open source projects to mozilla, and making them all out to be the same. Before you decide to try and impress the people here go find one of the peons and let them read your post first. If they start laughing, just don't bother.
This is a Flame. It was intentionally written and posted as such.
How to put it politely? Basicly it is very clear you do not understand kernals or XML or quite a few things. You seem to be business oriented, and that is the problem.
For those of us who do understand kernals and parsing and programming...what you are suggesting is not reasonable. The kernal has one major job, it controls the hardware, it is the controlling force of the os. It handles TCP/IP and that is all. From there it is up to software to do the rest.
As for running fast, well since linux tends to run fast and remain stable, that right there should be the important factor to an IT shop. XML similar to HTML it is a language, not piece of hardware. What your are suggesting would be like asking the kernal team to put the gcc compiler in the kernal. Besides being laughed at, you would be concidered a fool and promptly ignored.
You must also remember that linux for the most part is advanced by the people who love it. Selling something is not always first on their mind, if so there would be tons of "user friendly" software for linux. Most linux software is very stable, but not really pretty. This usually bothers no one because it works.
If you are going to post here and post on something you know almost nothing about, expect to get flamed.
If they don't then they might as well go ahead and turn the world over to them. Their whole attitude so far has been "we've done nothing wrong". They are delusional. They create nothing and steal/buy all the new ideas they can.
So far the only people that are against the breakup are MS and its devoted users. I make a living off of it, but that doesn't mean I like my computer crashing all the time. To have real inovation takes competition, and right now there isn't any.
1) As soon as Office is free of Windows, Linux will be a MAJOR draw for a porting effort.
Well, If Bill takes over the applications side I wouldn't hold my breath on it. He will still view windows as his os and not deviate from it.
2) As soon as the OS company doesn't need to keep the hidden APIs/changing features to force software adoption, all of these resource-hogging, stability-threatening items can go away--making other (standards compliant) software work a lot better.
You are assuming that there are real quality people at MS that want a good os. If you were writing windows and your view of windows was "There is nothing but windows" then the need to make it great is not as strong. This is the reason we need competition. Windows is so unstable because there is nothing else for people to turn to (business/morons) that they can use. So in reality windows is the only os for most of the business world. I don't forsee any improvement in the near future, breakup or not.
Besides what if the programmers don't want thier standards? And they create their own?
3) The Feds will be looking over everyone's shoulder.
Yes, but there will be too many of the people watching that probably will not have the technical experience to really know what is going on. Lets look at the reality side of things: I got a job programming for oracle, even though I didn't know oracle (some sql knowledge but not oracle). Of course now I'm doing great with it, I still am not an expert. Who do you hire to keep watch? Anyone with the knowledge/skill to know what to watch for will be expensive, who will fund all this.
I do want to see them broken up. As a programmer they are a threat to my paycheck. (unless I worked for them) I don't want to have them continue in the current "I am god" attitude. They are the biggest bully on the block and its time they are put in their place. I don't think a breakup will solve all the problems, but it will help make the definition of what they cannot do a bit clearer to the people watching.
"Microsoft has delivered tremendous benefit to consumers as an integrated company," Murray said. "And there is virtually no information in this case to support these radical steps."
"Even though you found me with the bloody knife standing over the dead body, with me covered in blood" Says the defendant. "I still don't see why I'm on trial here."
Although it sounds good, the fact is that most schools do not punish the football players for what they concider normal activity for them.
If the school is harrasing the star quarterback then all the "important" kids get upset and tell their parents. Result: the school leaves the quarterback alone.
On the other hand when the jocks put in that the geeks or other strange stundents have gone crazy, the school will follow thier every move, harrass and be quite prejudiced against them. They do not form a mojority, so they are safe to abuse.
Basicly I don't forsee this WAVE being more than a way for schools to have a more "legitamite" reason for picking on the strange kids.
I like the idea of FreeNet. Although porn in general doesn't interest me, it is all over the net. If I had the desire I could fill up my hard drive with the crap. I don't. But I don't curse the internet for having porn on it. The internet has good and bad things on it. I'm sure I can find many sites detailing how to create explosives. I haven't created any bombs in my basement.
The whole point I'm trying to make is that FreeNet is not giving us anything which isn't already on the net. But what it will give us is a way of keeping corporations from suppressing ideas. You can trust big brother AOL to properly filter your internet access, show you just what it wants you to see. If you wish to flame FreeNet for its disregard of copyright and its unconcern for the types of material it will pass, you must also treat the internet the same way. In essence they are the same thing in concept, just differ in distribution.
You may dissagree with me, but just point your browser to your favorite search engine and search for porn...or explosives...or warez. Its all out there. I personally am tiered of watching big companies try and tell me that they are doing all these things to protect thier interests. Why should my life be more complex because they need to add 3 more layers of bullshit to their product so its harder to pirate, but only slows me down.
There is good and bad to FreeNet, some will use it properly, some will not. If this disturbs you so bad then why are you on the internet? It holds the same nasty things you are complaining about. As for being annonymous...Any "free" web site is pretty annonymous. They will even give you a free email address.
Well, my latest job I (even though I was looking for sysadmin) ended up in programming. But fortunatly I usually only have to do 40 hours. Of course it is occasionally less...or like this week I'll probably hit more than 80. Overall I'm not complaining.
Of course some of the programmers that work for the company I am sub-contracted to work 60+ hours a week. (but I'm sure they do make a bit more than me)
I think most programmers are overworked...and seriously underpaid (at least most of them) I've done it, 80+ hour weeks...strait to burn out. Now I have a new outlook, not to mention a playstation..:)
And according to Borland, the Linux port of delphi (which by the way is already being worked on) will include its own widget set (vcl clone) that will make the linux version of delphi more portable from windows. I doubt it will be perfect, but if you can carry 75% or more of your current work over...makes life allot easier.
I know I'll be first in line to get it. I'll even pay for it.
Its amazing to see that so many people fail to notice that there are millions of winblows users out there and they all seem to have money. Hmm, I earn a pretty good living off the winblows morons. And I'm not ashamed of it. I use linux also, but the $$ potential isn't as great for me. So spending 18 hours a day in front of a monitor a having winblows on my machine makes me "not a geek"?
In reality I think allot of these companies don't have enough profits to cover them through the after xmas slump. Allot of companies have lived and died by xmas rush buying. Since there is so many online companies and stores and people seem to be about fed up with all the hype, sales overall for most companies were low.
Now since some of these companies are going belly up (3dfx still ticks me off) media seems to be forcusing on the fact that so many companies are going under and stocks are falling. The real result of all this is the thinning of the heard...the strong will stay, and the rest go away. This type of thing goes on all the time, so we have a lot more web programmers and it people looking for jobs, according to the commercial becoming nt certified could get you $65K a year (down from $75K 3 months ago). Maybe, just maybe, this will bring the demand down and the push for people who would make better sales people will stay away from IT and programming.
Overall, this is good for all of us and the technology world. And if the media wants to make a crisis of it, they can, my job seems to be stable.
I use both windows and linux. I program for windows and am learning to program for linux. Based on my experience I see some problems and good points to both.
Windows is based on a closed sorce kernel (and everything else) and is not a greatly stable environment. It is user friendly and great when it works. Yes, they have a plan, but can they actually make it work? So far thier plans are not what windows are truely using. M$ has a large market because of morons. Face it, morons outnumber geeks 1000+ to 1. So windows isn't going away anytime soon since your average user dosn't really care about anything but using the computer.
Linux has one major advantage over windows, stability. Could we use a plan? Maybe, but I think what we really need is some standards more than plans. For example, if you want to write a game for windows, you use direct x. In linux you can write your own system, or use one of the several out there. So if you get a game for linux you have to have the game system to play it. If there was one standard game system that all 3d game programmers used then that would be all you needed. This of course could limit some capability, but if it is open source it can be modified (maybe like modules) and added to the main game api.
Face it, linux is very stable. Most apps I use with linux are rather stable and have rarely crashed linux. Even beta software is as reliable as any window app I use, often times more. Linux has great diversity and is almost limitless in what you can do with it. But I think if we all agreed that certain libraries, programs, ect should be part of "linux". Then if more programmers stuck to using the standard parts of linux we could still have the stability and standerdization. This would put us closer to what microsoft has but without the bug fest that goes with it.
Linux is better for stability, but lacking in standards and common concepts. Linux could still be as flexible and configurable as it is now, and still be given a set of standard pieces that would make new users/programmers lives easier when makeing the move to linux.
Linux will never replace windows on the desktop till there is a more moron friendly system and set of standards to rely upon.
Thank You! I could not have said it better. I reboot 10-15 times a day (average) while programming. Only 3-5 when just using winblows. I can work all day in linux and IF I am really abusing lots of different things on a rare once a month basis crash X.
I think that if windows had the stability of linux (everyone laugh) then windows software would be much more stable. I can state from experience, that I spend more time determining whether it is my bug or windows' bug. Most of mine are simple and easily fixed, windows' bugs are not fixable and workarounds are a pain.
So until the day I can get a job working as a linux programmer, I will continue excercising the reboot procedure.
(too bad it doesn't burn calories or build muscle)
I think they should pump thier money into hardware support. Since all of the companies have not embraced linux, and rh has some extra $$, let them create support for more hardware. Face it, we have apps, and unless they are going to start making games, there are many project filling in all the business type apps already. Who needs another office program? Lets get more support so everyone can use linux. Even the cheap garbage hardware that doesn't always work.
Well, when dealing with msn for a peron at work, I got the (dis) pleasure of talking to the tech support of msn. Thier reason for dynamic dns was due to not wanting hackers to get ms ip's to hack on. Sounds more like fear of weak security to me. If M$ had better security like linux/unix then this wouldn't be a problem. But since they can't seem to do it they are playing musical ip's to try and replace their lack of security.
Of corse this is just my opinion based off of what I was told. Hmmm....wonder why ms uses solaris for thier web site?
Re:NOOO! Charging for email will legitimize spam!
on
UN Proposes Email Tax
·
· Score: 1
Ok what if you use a sliding scale for 0 to 500 msgs in a month nothing from 501 to 1000 about 1 cent per 100 from 1001 to 10K 10 cents each more than 10K 1 dollar each...
ok, kinda stupid...but it would kill a shitload of spam...hehe
You know, it occured to me that what if M$ put someone up to this? Since the discovery of the id in the word docs and how no one wants it. Lets just say Bill wants to leave it there and have people happy about it being there. A small step towards id'ing everything.
Ok, so he hires someone to take credit and the fall for a virus that does nothing but be anoying. Ok, there are probably a few NT mail servers out their who took it hard, but it had no real dammaging characteristics.
Basicly it upset allot of business people, and gets them upset about viruses and how usefull the id was in finding the guilty person. They think nothing of privacy or how usefull that id could be to Bill. They do know it stopped the person who wrote the virus. Another small victory for Bill.
(This is all pure speculation, I have no proof of any kind to back it up. Just seems a bit coincedental for me)
Slashdot Mirror
Just because I use phrases applicable to the high-level people I work with I should be reviled? I su[pose to you peans working at the bottom that seems fair, but you'll never earn the $$$ I'm on with a narrow-minded attitude like that.
I shouldn't do this, but I just can't help it.
Ok, Mr Big shot, I have discovered one thing since I've been working with computers (and it has been quite a few years now) is that the big level marketing people have discovered they can resell the same crap over and over if they come up with fancy new words for the same old stuff. The major difference between you and the professional IT/development type people here is that we don't need fancy words to describe whats going on. You and your high level know nothings may have your fancy words, but how long will you be in business without us low level peons who actually do the real work and skip over the fancy phrases for the same old shit?
If that is the way you think of others you wouldn't last long as a project manager. Fancy words do not imply knowledge to those of us who do understand something about computers and programming. So skip the "Why is everyone getting upset" act and face the fact that you do not know what you are talking about. Your post was as bad as the zdnet artical linking all open source projects to mozilla, and making them all out to be the same. Before you decide to try and impress the people here go find one of the peons and let them read your post first. If they start laughing, just don't bother.
This is a Flame. It was intentionally written and posted as such.
Why have you gotten so offended?
How to put it politely? Basicly it is very clear you do not understand kernals or XML or quite a few things. You seem to be business oriented, and that is the problem.
For those of us who do understand kernals and parsing and programming...what you are suggesting is not reasonable. The kernal has one major job, it controls the hardware, it is the controlling force of the os. It handles TCP/IP and that is all. From there it is up to software to do the rest.
As for running fast, well since linux tends to run fast and remain stable, that right there should be the important factor to an IT shop. XML similar to HTML it is a language, not piece of hardware. What your are suggesting would be like asking the kernal team to put the gcc compiler in the kernal. Besides being laughed at, you would be concidered a fool and promptly ignored.
You must also remember that linux for the most part is advanced by the people who love it. Selling something is not always first on their mind, if so there would be tons of "user friendly" software for linux. Most linux software is very stable, but not really pretty. This usually bothers no one because it works.
If you are going to post here and post on something you know almost nothing about, expect to get flamed.
If they don't then they might as well go ahead and turn the world over to them. Their whole attitude so far has been "we've done nothing wrong". They are delusional. They create nothing and steal/buy all the new ideas they can.
So far the only people that are against the breakup are MS and its devoted users. I make a living off of it, but that doesn't mean I like my computer crashing all the time. To have real inovation takes competition, and right now there isn't any.
1) As soon as Office is free of Windows, Linux will be a MAJOR draw for a porting effort.
Well, If Bill takes over the applications side I wouldn't hold my breath on it. He will still view windows as his os and not deviate from it.
2) As soon as the OS company doesn't need to keep the hidden APIs/changing features to force software adoption, all of these resource-hogging, stability-threatening items can go away--making other (standards compliant) software work a lot better.
You are assuming that there are real quality people at MS that want a good os. If you were writing windows and your view of windows was "There is nothing but windows" then the need to make it great is not as strong. This is the reason we need competition. Windows is so unstable because there is nothing else for people to turn to (business/morons) that they can use. So in reality windows is the only os for most of the business world. I don't forsee any improvement in the near future, breakup or not.
Besides what if the programmers don't want thier standards? And they create their own?
3) The Feds will be looking over everyone's shoulder.
Yes, but there will be too many of the people watching that probably will not have the technical experience to really know what is going on. Lets look at the reality side of things:
I got a job programming for oracle, even though I didn't know oracle (some sql knowledge but not oracle). Of course now I'm doing great with it, I still am not an expert.
Who do you hire to keep watch? Anyone with the knowledge/skill to know what to watch for will be expensive, who will fund all this.
I do want to see them broken up. As a programmer they are a threat to my paycheck. (unless I worked for them) I don't want to have them continue in the current "I am god" attitude. They are the biggest bully on the block and its time they are put in their place. I don't think a breakup will solve all the problems, but it will help make the definition of what they cannot do a bit clearer to the people watching.
"Microsoft has delivered tremendous benefit to consumers as an integrated company," Murray said. "And there is virtually no information in this case to support these radical steps."
"Even though you found me with the bloody knife standing over the dead body, with me covered in blood" Says the defendant. "I still don't see why I'm on trial here."
Although it sounds good, the fact is that most schools do not punish the football players for what they concider normal activity for them.
If the school is harrasing the star quarterback then all the "important" kids get upset and tell their parents. Result: the school leaves the quarterback alone.
On the other hand when the jocks put in that the geeks or other strange stundents have gone crazy, the school will follow thier every move, harrass and be quite prejudiced against them. They do not form a mojority, so they are safe to abuse.
Basicly I don't forsee this WAVE being more than a way for schools to have a more "legitamite" reason for picking on the strange kids.
There is definatly a problem here.
I like the idea of FreeNet. Although porn in general doesn't interest me, it is all over the net. If I had the desire I could fill up my hard drive with the crap. I don't. But I don't curse the internet for having porn on it. The internet has good and bad things on it. I'm sure I can find many sites detailing how to create explosives. I haven't created any bombs in my basement.
The whole point I'm trying to make is that FreeNet is not giving us anything which isn't already on the net. But what it will give us is a way of keeping corporations from suppressing ideas. You can trust big brother AOL to properly filter your internet access, show you just what it wants you to see. If you wish to flame FreeNet for its disregard of copyright and its unconcern for the types of material it will pass, you must also treat the internet the same way. In essence they are the same thing in concept, just differ in distribution.
You may dissagree with me, but just point your browser to your favorite search engine and search for porn...or explosives...or warez. Its all out there. I personally am tiered of watching big companies try and tell me that they are doing all these things to protect thier interests. Why should my life be more complex because they need to add 3 more layers of bullshit to their product so its harder to pirate, but only slows me down.
There is good and bad to FreeNet, some will use it properly, some will not. If this disturbs you so bad then why are you on the internet? It holds the same nasty things you are complaining about. As for being annonymous...Any "free" web site is pretty annonymous. They will even give you a free email address.
Well, my latest job I (even though I was looking for sysadmin) ended up in programming. But fortunatly I usually only have to do 40 hours. Of course it is occasionally less...or like this week I'll probably hit more than 80. Overall I'm not complaining.
Of course some of the programmers that work for the company I am sub-contracted to work 60+ hours a week. (but I'm sure they do make a bit more than me)
I think most programmers are overworked...and seriously underpaid (at least most of them) I've done it, 80+ hour weeks...strait to burn out. Now I have a new outlook, not to mention a playstation..:)
And according to Borland, the Linux port of delphi (which by the way is already being worked on) will include its own widget set (vcl clone) that will make the linux version of delphi more portable from windows. I doubt it will be perfect, but if you can carry 75% or more of your current work over...makes life allot easier.
I know I'll be first in line to get it. I'll even pay for it.
Its amazing to see that so many people fail to notice that there are millions of winblows users out there and they all seem to have money. Hmm, I earn a pretty good living off the winblows morons. And I'm not ashamed of it. I use linux also, but the $$ potential isn't as great for me. So spending 18 hours a day in front of a monitor a having winblows on my machine makes me "not a geek"?
In reality I think allot of these companies don't have enough profits to cover them through the after xmas slump. Allot of companies have lived and died by xmas rush buying. Since there is so many online companies and stores and people seem to be about fed up with all the hype, sales overall for most companies were low.
Now since some of these companies are going belly up (3dfx still ticks me off) media seems to be forcusing on the fact that so many companies are going under and stocks are falling. The real result of all this is the thinning of the heard...the strong will stay, and the rest go away. This type of thing goes on all the time, so we have a lot more web programmers and it people looking for jobs, according to the commercial becoming nt certified could get you $65K a year (down from $75K 3 months ago). Maybe, just maybe, this will bring the demand down and the push for people who would make better sales people will stay away from IT and programming.
Overall, this is good for all of us and the technology world. And if the media wants to make a crisis of it, they can, my job seems to be stable.
When it comes to computers.....yes
I use both windows and linux. I program for windows and am learning to program for linux. Based on my experience I see some problems and good points to both.
Windows is based on a closed sorce kernel (and everything else) and is not a greatly stable environment. It is user friendly and great when it works. Yes, they have a plan, but can they actually make it work? So far thier plans are not what windows are truely using. M$ has a large market because of morons. Face it, morons outnumber geeks 1000+ to 1. So windows isn't going away anytime soon since your average user dosn't really care about anything but using the computer.
Linux has one major advantage over windows, stability. Could we use a plan? Maybe, but I think what we really need is some standards more than plans. For example, if you want to write a game for windows, you use direct x. In linux you can write your own system, or use one of the several out there. So if you get a game for linux you have to have the game system to play it. If there was one standard game system that all 3d game programmers used then that would be all you needed. This of course could limit some capability, but if it is open source it can be modified (maybe like modules) and added to the main game api.
Face it, linux is very stable. Most apps I use with linux are rather stable and have rarely crashed linux. Even beta software is as reliable as any window app I use, often times more. Linux has great diversity and is almost limitless in what you can do with it. But I think if we all agreed that certain libraries, programs, ect should be part of "linux". Then if more programmers stuck to using the standard parts of linux we could still have the stability and standerdization. This would put us closer to what microsoft has but without the bug fest that goes with it.
Linux is better for stability, but lacking in standards and common concepts. Linux could still be as flexible and configurable as it is now, and still be given a set of standard pieces that would make new users/programmers lives easier when makeing the move to linux.
Linux will never replace windows on the desktop till there is a more moron friendly system and set of standards to rely upon.
Thank You! I could not have said it better. I reboot 10-15 times a day (average) while programming. Only 3-5 when just using winblows. I can work all day in linux and IF I am really abusing lots of different things on a rare once a month basis crash X.
I think that if windows had the stability of linux (everyone laugh) then windows software would be much more stable. I can state from experience, that I spend more time determining whether it is my bug or windows' bug. Most of mine are simple and easily fixed, windows' bugs are not fixable and workarounds are a pain.
So until the day I can get a job working as a linux programmer, I will continue excercising the reboot procedure.
(too bad it doesn't burn calories or build muscle)
I think they should pump thier money into hardware support. Since all of the companies have not embraced linux, and rh has some extra $$, let them create support for more hardware. Face it, we have apps, and unless they are going to start making games, there are many project filling in all the business type apps already. Who needs another office program? Lets get more support so everyone can use linux. Even the cheap garbage hardware that doesn't always work.
Well, when dealing with msn for a peron at work, I got the (dis) pleasure of talking to the tech support of msn. Thier reason for dynamic dns was due to not wanting hackers to get ms ip's to hack on. Sounds more like fear of weak security to me. If M$ had better security like linux/unix then this wouldn't be a problem. But since they can't seem to do it they are playing musical ip's to try and replace their lack of security.
Of corse this is just my opinion based off of what I was told. Hmmm....wonder why ms uses solaris for thier web site?
Ok what if you use a sliding scale
for 0 to 500 msgs in a month nothing
from 501 to 1000 about 1 cent per 100
from 1001 to 10K 10 cents each
more than 10K 1 dollar each...
ok, kinda stupid...but it would kill a shitload of spam...hehe
Check out star office. Free, (for personal use) and besides being a bit slow, it isn't that bad. I have it for winblows and linux.
You know, it occured to me that what if M$ put someone up to this? Since the discovery of the id in the word docs and how no one wants it. Lets just say Bill wants to leave it there and have people happy about it being there. A small step towards id'ing everything.
Ok, so he hires someone to take credit and the fall for a virus that does nothing but be anoying. Ok, there are probably a few NT mail servers out their who took it hard, but it had no real dammaging characteristics.
Basicly it upset allot of business people, and gets them upset about viruses and how usefull the id was in finding the guilty person. They think nothing of privacy or how usefull that id could be to Bill. They do know it stopped the person who wrote the virus. Another small victory for Bill.
(This is all pure speculation, I have no proof of any kind to back it up. Just seems a bit coincedental for me)