Slashdot Mirror
The Myth Of The Tech Slump
The outside world has always viewed the Net in terms of its most simplistic extremes: First it was a hive of hackers, then the world headquarters of pornography, and more recently, the corporate pot of gold. The rise of the dotcom era gave birth to the notion of the Net as the locus of the new global economy. While there is some truth to that notion. the end of the dotcom era is spawning now the latest variety of hype: the Tech Slump.
If you define the purpose or utility of the Internet strictly in terms of business (which mainstream media do, when they're not obsessing on porn) -- new equipment orders, consumer spending on telephone data services, the exact state of the NASDAQ on any given day -- then there's inevitable bad news.
Nothing can mask the awful truth about tech spending, Business Week reported recently. "In recent days, networking-gear maker 3Com, PC maker Gateway, and chipmakers LSI Logic and Xilinx, and electronics retailer Circuit City all warned that earnings will fall shot of expectations, knocking their stocks down as much as 36 per cent. Then, on Dec. 5, Apple Computer Inc. dropped a bomb, saying that slower-than-expected PC sales will vaporize $600 million in fourth-quarter revenues from its original estimate of $1.6 billion." These unexpected turns, says Business Week, are certain to reverberate through techdom, forcing consolidations that will extend well beyond the already tottering dotcoms. "Unable to survive past the easy-money days," the magazine concluded, "a lot of companies, from niche e-tailers to the umpteenth optical-networking upstart, will simply vanish."
Corporate predators are buying up the stock of imploding dotcoms, selling them off at bargain rates. There are now no-frills "shut-down" parties in New York and San Francisco instead of lavish start-up fetes. The media is filled with reports of mounting tech layoffs and bankruptcies.
This is an era that won't be mourned by many. If ever there were an unholy marriage, it was the frenzied coupling of venture capitalists and dotcom entrepeneurs. It had to end sometime, and now is a good a time as any. The dotcom era distorted the purpose of technology and the promise of the Net, flooded the Net with intrusive scrutiny, legislation and information barriers, focusing some of the best tech minds on making useless junk and obscuring the beneficial possibilities of networked computing.
Bankers are finally demanding that the companies they lend to earn profits. That doesn't mean technology itself will collapse, or that the Net and Web are in for bleak or uninteresting times.
In fact, that's a foolish way to gauge the rise of fall of technology, the state of the Net, or the vitality of either. The network is growing by the day, all over the world. More than half of the U.S. population now has access to computers at home or work, making computing the fastest-growing technology in history, and companies like Ford, Delta and Intel are giving away computers as employee benefits. There is no significant social or cultural group, from blacks to Hispanics to the elderly, with the notable exception of the impoverished underclass, that isn't moving rapidly online. E-mail has become a universal personal and business communications tool. Hard pressed to function in the Corporate Republic, WalMart-driven world, hundreds of thousands of small retailers have moved online, re-creating mom and pop stores on the Web.
And search engines and ISPs have given many thousands of people free and customizable web pages, sparking a culture that is expressive and personalized, and which offers mind-boggling marketing opportunities.
Some of the most creative and significant evolutions in the recent life of the Net -- the early search engines, Napster, Linux, Gnutella, Freenet, instant messaging systems, the World Wide Web itself -- were developed far away from the cash or even the notice of the dotcommers and venture capitalists. The Net, in fact, was created in the first place mostly by non-profit researchers.
Its purpose, according to J.C.R. Licklider, the Defense Department official who commissioned the early research that led to the Net: "Creative, interactive communication ... a dynamic medium that can be contributed to and experimented with by all." Licklider hoped for an open, distributed, educational and intensely interactive medium, a vision shared by architects of the Net like Jonathan Postel and by millions of people online, including hackers, and many of the participants in the open source and free software movements. If the end of the dotcom era means getting back to work on those kinds of ideas, the the tech slump will be a boon.
One could argue that the last few years have actually been the least interesting, productive and satisfying period in the Net's brief history, as corporatists swarmed all over the network, spawning legions of lawsuits, curtailing the free flow of information as much as they could manage, lobbying for noxious new copyright laws, funding inefficient, ill-conceived companies and all kinds of technologies which skirt the line between useless and ubiquitous.
The real legacy of the dotcom era could be 800 numbers that are never answered, the help that's always promised but rarely comes. Plenty of the dotcoms seem of dubious value. Americans are in no particular rush to get their e-mail on the freeway rather than at work a half hour later, or to transform their TVs into personal programming networks. More than 95 per cent of all Americans don't even have broadband, and aren't likely to get it anytime soon. Is the Net era over because there is one place to buy dog food online, instead of two or three?
The history of technology is filled with periods of great adance and upheaval, followed by retrenchment and consolidation. We may be heading into one of the latter.
There's no evidence that business or retailing has failed on the Web, or has no future there. One day, some of us may live long enough to see Amazon turn a profit. Catalogue companies like LL Bean and Lands End are successfully incorporating e-shopping into their business plans. E-trading sites have revolutionized consumer trading and are making money. Sites focused on the liberation of sexual information and imagery are among the busiest and most profitable sectors of the Net, anything but declining. Open media sites like Napster or like this one, sites devoted to open source distribution of textbooks and reference materials, are thriving. Peer-to-peer decentralized information models like Gnutella and Freenet, while still primitive and intensely geeky and difficult, represent revolutionary software and communications advances.
Must we mourn the loss of etailers peddling make-up and fashion accessories? Gaming has become one of the most profitable forms of culture in the world. A report by PC Data this month announced that 35 per cent of home Net users plan to purchase console or PC games during this holiday season, and that gaming is no longer a male-dominated domain. For the first time, women comprise a majority of online gamers -- 50.4 per cent.
Perhaps then we could funnel some of the creative energy and money of the dotcom era back into the original ambitions of people like Licklider? Maybe interactive communities will get the attention they deserve in terms of attention, conception, price, ease-of-use, design and architecture?
There's no shortage of unfinished tasks that could benefit from some attention. The virtual community, an inspiring early idea of the Net, needs redesign and reconception. Technology, from the sales and support of computing to the writing of code, needs simplification, to be easier and more accessible to non-techs.
Online politics is a ripe idea, especially after this year. Can digital technology help people register and vote more easily and efficiently? Can it democratize fund-raising, energize volunteers, generate new kinds of candidates, even provide more meaningful ways of considering issues and voting?
At the same time, a host of new tech issues like gene mapping and AI, looming social issues that have gotten little attention from the general population, could use some understanding and discussion.
The first generation Internet belonged to the engineers, dreamers and military researchers. The second belongs to the Geeks and the Dotcommers, who battled one another, sometimes directly, sometimes not, for attention and primacy. It was the Microsoft Era, and it's over.
It isn't clear what the next era will be about, or what, precisely, will define it.
My prediction: computing will spur the creation of Open Societies, digital technologies being applied to open government, different models for doing business, a revamping of intellectual property and a breaking down of hierarchies, barriers between citizens and government, even some national boundaries.
The Net is almost ferociously anti-hierarchical. Online authority reflects online architecture -- it is so de-centralized that the idea of a central information control seems almost impossible. Many-to-many-models of communication means open participation in decision-making, from media to entertainment to business, for better or worse. As computing spread through different sectors of society -- politics, government, education -- so will varying degrees of openness.
If the best minds online return to some basic topics, themes and dreams, the Tech Slump won't be the nightmare Business Week imagines, but might turn out to be a Tech Salvation.
There doesn't seem to be too many signs of impending technology recession where I'm sitting. Given that IBMs net income for Q4 in 2000 were up 28% over the previous year, that doesn't exactly sit with the tech doom and gloom. Even if you take the whole year 2000, IBM posted a 16% increase over 1999 despite all the muttering that 2000 was a slow year.
Food for thought.
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The media are piling onto the tech slump story in the same way they piled on the boom story. It doesn't mean that either were particularly true.
The dotcom companies that arose in the last few years were bloated and often nonsensical, but you didn't read too many articles critical of them before the NASDAQ took a dive.
It just brings me back to the conclusion that very few members of the media have a real understanding about what's going on, which may be ironic if you consider that it's the Internet that will over time erode the power of the mass media. You'd think they'd be keenly interested.
Automatic Sites, LLC
I looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked into me--and we both winked.
If so, shouldn't he be getting a little credit here?
lots of them promptly go bust because they haven't the business sense they need - they understand the web, not business methods.
I think you've gotten this nearly backwards. A lot of dotcommers graduated with business degrees (MBAs and undergrad degrees), many from places like Harvard and Stanford. It's safe to assume they know more about business methods than 99.99% of people out there. As for the dotcoms run by kids, which I suspect you talk about, those that get funding are pretty much run by the VCs, who again are people that have business degrees and are ostensibly experts in running businesses.
What I think they didn't get was not how to run a business, but how to run a web business. This is an important distinction, because I would argue that very few people know how to run a web business -- and those people can't (or won't) articulate that knowledge. Bricks-and-mortar companies aren't leveraging their knowledge -- they're leveraging their bricks-and-mortar infrastructure. This, I would think, isn't the optimal way to run a web business; rather, it's a good way to take advantage of Internet efficiency.
Once we figure out how to run a web business, it'll be a new economic age. But right now, we're just trying to fit the Internet into a slightly-post-industrial-age economy.
(Dodges a few bricks)
What happened? A lot of business types had the same thought - here is a new communication channel, a whole new environment where money hasn't been made. It's like Sid Meyer's Civilization, round 1! We have to expand! expand! expand! Let's make some settlers!
They were able to convince the banks, and got the venture capital (based on "sucesses" like Yahoo!). Those "in the know" bought stock, then the media picked up on it, and everyone was buying stock - soon, you get dot-com billionares, which always makes a good story.
Those commericals made you laugh, but you couldn't say who they were for five minutes later. What you did notice, and you mon and grandma noticed, was that most had a web address, and they needed a com-pu-ter to look up those addresses. The media, wanting to jump on the trend that was making them lots of money in advertising, followed suit. Soon, you couldn't watch Wheel of Fortune or the local news without seeing a URL.
I've been into computers for over 15 years (about the time I had the skills to type on a keyboard), and I've been saying how good they are all that time - but it wasn't until the dotcoms came along that my mom, my aunt, and my grandma were all asking me how to use them, that my wife (the coordinator at the literacy office in Tulsa's library system) could say that computer literacy was an important component of literacy, and not be laughed down, but instead given more money to buy computers! She is now teaching folks who are just learning to read how to use a computer, and giving them the confidence they need to keep learning. (Please, no AOL jokes - these folks know the importance of spell check and editing).
If it wasn't for those dotcoms shoving the idea of the internet into every person's mind, I would still be looking at ISDN for broadband, and I'd be making a trip a week to the local bank rather than banking online. All that media hype made traditional business offer their services online, which made it possible to upgrade the infrastructure to take the load. Universities and rich computer types can only go so far - you really need the public behind it to make universal, reliable broadband possible.
Even SlashDot would be in trouble if it was two kids in their dorm room. The popularity of the site would be limited by their resources, instead of getting constant hardware upgrades funded by ad dollars.
I think without the dotcoms, we would be about 5 years behind, surfing at 56K from home, because the guys at work can't justify internet connections. Of course, now that we're here, we can afford to eject some of the booster rockets. It will be an interesting future.
"The longest sustained period of growth the US economy has ever seen" also coincides with the internet/technology boom. How much did Clinton play a part in this? NONE. He just happened to be there.
well, whatever.
i could live a little longer in this prison
I don't think anyone can accuse Katz's articles of having too much substance - too much BS, too much hype, too many unexamined assumptions, too many cliches, but not too much substance!
Thank goodness he didn't have an office on Piedmont Road.
Seriously, the person you describe is all too similar to Mark O. Barton and that is not good. I would post a link to the AJC, but that is a fee-based service so here is one to refresh your memory.
For contrast, Computer Literacy, (now, unfortunately, fathead) was better able to locate unusual computer books. Of course, the internet business was just an adjunct to their local stores (in silicon valley somewhere). But they provided in depth coverage of a specialty area. (They may still. I haven't tried them on anything difficult recently.) This is where an internet store should have an advantage. By giving in depth coverage to a narrow focus, it needs to draw customers from a large area (there aren't as many). Because of the internet, it can. But all too many stores tried for shallow and wide coverage. It's an easy extrapolation of what has worked for bricks and mortar. But they don't see that it doesn't provide much advantage. And it looses the advantage that the merchandise can be physically examined, and picked up now.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Too bad it took an AC post to say it, but I agree. Our professional standing has been cheapened for too long by dotcom "web developers" whose primary programming tool seems to be Front page Express for IE 4.0.
All your belongings are base to us.
Unfortunately this slump is hitting skilled bare-metal HTML coders and the mental midgets using FPExpress equally hard.
It's getting to the point where I'm seriously considering getting a job doing tech support. Eep!
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Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I have a friend who writes multi-tier applications. In VB. He doesn't know whether TCP/IP is something implemented (on a PC) in hardware or software. I wouldn't trust him to write a "hello world" program to save my life. He recently left a job making $65/hr for another making $85 an hour.
But I digress. I realize some people are getting laid off as dotcoms go bust. They probably can't get jobs as easily as the Ted guy from the Monster.com commercial. But when untalented people can make $175,000/year and there exist businesses with money that can still hire untalented people for that much, I don't think the economy is quite that dead yet.
It might just be time to go back to searching for a job instead of having them thrown at you.
Still, with a plan, you only get the best you can imagine. I'd always hoped for something better than that. -CP
Chances are better that consumerism (funny traditional media--WSJ in fact, today--is just cathing on/admitting to this) had more to do with the upswing in recent years than anything else. Thank corporatized mass culture for the upswing. Who's responsible for the rize of corporatized mass culture? Republicans for siding with corporations? Democrats for siding with media? Or companies for seeing the profit opportunities and jumping on it? World population growth makes many political theories about the economy difficult to swallow, too.
Amen. If I had to see one more petstore online I'd cringe.
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-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I saw a ridiculous statement in the media somewhere (I just can't find it, WSJ maybe?), that said something to the effect of - the internet needs commercialization to be successful, or useful - something to that effect. The web is, and will be, a great thing for the same reason that free software is. Those people who are eager to contribute to it because of their own personal desire. When I think of the "success" of the web I think of things like Project Gutenberg and SourceForge, not mypetfoodstore.com. Even without all the VC, there will always be a market for the service and soon. The service alone is enough to keep the web viable without any crass commercialization at all. I have to agree with Katz on this point, the media completely ignores the contributions of creative individuals to content, and seems to focus purely on the "business" aspects. As if the web needs that kind of justification !
Absolute statements are never true
Maybe we can forget about venture capitalists, copyright and lawsuits for a bit...
Unfortunately, a downward slump usually means tech companies turn to lawsuits for profits instead of products.
I find it funny that so many people blame the Microsoft suit for the current slump, while saying MS doesn't have a monopoly. The explosion of other lawsuits would have nothing to do with destroying innovation on the internet?
We'll get out of the slump in four years, when quasipresident Bush gets kicked out.
Newspapers, discussion groups, finance, purchases.
It just that 90% of the ideas were me-toos, not
workable, or scams. I'm satisfied with the 10%
that seem useful.
Yes any dork that took macro-econ knows that economy's are cyclical. Hence dumb-ass Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with the great times we have had from 94-Q1,00. And the next dumb-ass in office will have noting to do with an oncoming recession if there is one.
Ok my karma is maxed out. When do I become Enlightened?
To discuss more on the subject of the 'tech-slump', I think it's good. Those who didn't belong in the space are getting forced out. I for one, have never bought anything through E-Bay or Amazon. I'd rather have a look at those types of products up close to see what they've got. However, I have purchased computer supplies from specialized suppliers that are net only businesses because they cater to a specific audience (in my case, PC modification and enhancement). The net is made up of people searching for specific and detailed info, and 'net stores' where specific wares are sold. It is not there to sell books which take 3 days to arrive at your door, when you could just drive over to the local Barnes & Noble, read the first chapter, decide that you like it, and buy it that day.
This has been an education for many of us in Bubble Economics.
That being said, there is the probability that we will get into another period that will complement the first, a period of an Anti-Bubble economy, the time of the Anti-Hype.
This becomes its' own self fulfilling prophecy of doom and gloom. In fact it is its' own kind of "bubble", a pessimism bubble.
It is difficult to maintain a detached perspective on this. After all, these are "only" our lives on the line. It is tempting to say "well , I know it can't last, but I'll see if I can cash in on this while the going is good" (when the times where good). And this is where many of us got caught.
Hindsight is not perfect, but for many of us, it is close to 20/20.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
There are more layoffs every week, so I expect that the glut of dot com programmers and H1-B's to take a lot of the juice out of rates.
I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just saying we are having a real economic slowdown and those among us who have to make a living will feel it. Those among us who are too young to remember what a recession is like and who have never seen a Bear stock market have a reality check in store. Check out the movie 'Roger and Me' from the video store.
The quote tech slump unquote is indeed a god-send to those of us who were getting weary of bogus technology hype that basically had most people totally snowed. Working at a defense contractor, I was seeing quite a lot of money wasted on COTS products that are slow, bug-ridden pieces of crap, promoted by cheesy marketing and gilded with the latest market buzzwords to the point of being nauseating. Amen to the shake-out. Let the fraudulent companies fall, hopefully now we are all a bit more savvy and will learn to be wary of cheaply built software that is being touted as nothing less than rocket science, not to mention the *ridiculous* price tags on some of the manure being sold by hyped up companies.
I'd like to see a survey on cyber sex. Just how many of those were REALLY women? This gives me some hope.
... aqueducts. And it's safe to walk the streets at night (ok, so maybe not the last one).
"Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it" - Tom Lehrer
If you Americans get into a recession, you can most likely blame your politicians who are definitely talking as though it is a fact. If enough of them say there is a recession, Mr & Mrs Joe Public will start to believe it, and act accordingly (spending less), and hey presto - a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it" - Tom Lehrer
A well configured, usable search utility for the net would have obviated much of the dot coms business flaws, e.g. the wealth of money that is silently channeled through VC to dot coms by the entertainment industry was secretly laundered by the media companies - they were vesting an interest in people not finding anything, weren't they? So, we had fallacies like 'online advertising' and 'media coverage of the internet' which amounted to nothing more or less than an annoyance at best. The era of zillion dollar domain names and dot com ads on tv is dead. And at a terrific, debilitating cost to the VC's that funded these now-bankrupt adventures. But I would like to add one thing: its not whether or not there is only one pet store, on the net. It's going to be whether or not there is 50 million pet stores on the net. The net is a natural extension of mans ability to communicate. Removing this natural, everyday capability from its current constraints of 'having to check your email in 30 minutes' at a 'desktop computer', and creating a world in which your internet information search and retrieve capability is by definition also a business space. We buy things with our cell phones. we research things with our cell phones, we are able to live better with the capability of being able to exchange data with one another, and retrieve it from wherever we are. Walk up to someone, in a world where if they are carrying a cellphone and a whisperpiece , assume have a click trail on you and see how much more profitable the 'liberators of sexual imagery' are than the ecommerce companies. The internet should not be totally anonymous, impersonal or divorced from humanity. Its isolated islands of commerce, and community will one day join. And ecommerce will take off when we can buy things will our cellphone. The 'privilege' of having a website, will be taken one day as a HUMAN RIGHT.
he who has the fastest cart always has the best lie.
This is extremely sound advice. As a hiring manager, I've found that you have to push hard on HR numb-nuts who ask you for lists of "keywords" to put in their ads. My standing rule is that no ad goes in unless I have personally written it, then reviewed the final copy. Any HR weenie that puts an ad in that was _not_ written and reviewed personally by me gets called on the carpet, along with his/her boss, and furthermore HR pays for the ad out of its operating budget, not out of my hiring budget.
But a lot of hiring managers don't have (or don't realize that they have) this degree of power in the organization, so the HR drones rule. This means the ads have exciting and attention-getting titles like "Programmer III" and "Junior Support Engineer II", along with silly lists of keywords that someone might have barfed up in a spare moment, but never believed in their wildest dreams would actually find their way into print.
So, this person is 100% right. Apply anyway. You'll probably find that the hiring manager is secretly appalled at how bad his/her ad looked. And, if s/he turns out to be a keyword bonebrain, you don't have to work there. But at least get the interview.
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Sock-Puppet advertising. I have mine right here!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
-Down with the moral majority.
Exactly what innovations over the past 10 years were from dot.coms? everything I can think of came from grad-students and open projects or the big old companies that have been around forever.
I cant think of one dot.com that made an impact other than a pile of burned, worthless, stock certificates.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I recommend Maestro by Woodward (who is, admiteddly, no Republican-lover), a sort-of biography of Greenspan over the past two decades. Reducing the budget deficit was initially Greenspan's push (at the time he considered it the only way to expand the economy any more, since things were already starting to do well). Clinton spent his political capital on it, though, which is certainly worth something. In fact, the only republican who supported his budget packet was Greenspan. Reducing the deficit probably had a much bigger impact than you give credit for.
As for the arguement on war generating economic growth, while unfortunate, I think most economists will agree that a war that is won, will generate more money for the winners, and more poverty for the losers. Even Sun Tzu's writings indicate that winning a war involved having more resources and aqcuiring more resources than the opponent, where as tactics were more important for individual battles.
It's unfortunate that I got modded down to 0 even though I've apparently gotten people talking on this subject. :(
clear that so far, 9 out of 10 new internet companies (the publicized ones, anyway), haven't failed.
Well obviously. The publicized ones were publicized because because they were the ones that made it. How many "we're-the-next-big-portal" companies made it. How many of the attempts at online retail made it? How many web hosting companies do you think folded? I think the 9 out of 10 statistic is probably pretty relavant, even in regard to .com companies.
It's an interesting point, but I might suggest that Jon isn't trying to ace any science techonology studies courses, and actually INTENDS to bring up open ended questions since the Slashdot forum allows these to be springboards for community discussion rather than just failed attepts to pad essays (something I'm rather familiar with)
;)
- StaticLimit
Bush's problem: he wasn't economically conservative enough; he buckled under.
FIRST POST! Wait - no what I meant to say is things like First Post being so common and such is a euphamism for why there is a 'tech slump.' People are no longer wow'd by IM (were you ever?) Email is common for grandma and damn near everyone has a computer. Remember planed obselecence? Why? Because if everyone buys their computer in '98 - it wont be till 2001 they wanna upgrade.
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
"GSM phones must be nearing saturation, in europe at least, and people are waiting for 3G to upgrade etc etc."
Mobile phones in most of Europe are treated as fashion accessories. Most people seem to get a new one annually, just because it looks nicer, or plays more tunes, or something. Because they're bundled with contracts or sold as loss-leaders, they're affordable enough to treat in this way.
As a result, demand for mobile phone hardware in europe is about as likely to reach saturation as the demand for trousers.
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I agree completely. Many of the companies that have seen there stock prices plunge may have had quarters that were below expectations, but it seems that the media overlooks the fact the companies are still making millions of dollars annually. IMHO that is a successful company, regardless of what the talking heads say. Funny that the dotcoms take the heat for the "slump" instead of the VCs who foolishly pumped millions of dollars into start-ups with no concept of a business plan.
Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must be silent. --Ludwig Wittgenstein
Especially weird when people reply to messages they misunderstood. Nobody said Clinton was a republican. What world are you in?
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Private Essayist
The fact that some idiotic dot-coms are finally dying means nothing -- most new businesses die, some deservedly. That's capitalism in action. Cycles come and go (nothing rises forever).
But if you think Clinton was in some way against global expansion there isn't much point in talking. Read. Learn.
________________
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Private Essayist
Which is why it was so ridiculous for Al Gore to be claiming that he and Clinton inherited the "worst economy in 50 years", or some such drivel.
Jon,
I read with great interest your comments on the end of the "dot com" boom.
I think what is now happening is the very fact that companies that have a "brick and mortar" presence will be the ones that will survive in the long run. Look at the fact that Wal-Mart, Toys-R-Us, Barnes & Noble, GE, Ford, FedEx, UPS, and other "Old Economy" companies have done an extremely successful job in leveraging their "brick and mortar" presence onto the Internet.
In fact, a great example of this is Boeing and Airbus--both are heavily investing in intranet and extranet sites that make it possible to order and ship spare parts for Boeing and Airbus jet airliners almost anywhere in the world.
However, some "New Economy" companies have done extremely provided the managers have a truly innovative ideas and have emphasized the need to actually make a profit. A good example of this is eBay--the company that has essentially created the world's largest classified ad and auction site. And the fact the founders of eBay have emphasized the need to make money have proved that they can withstand the failure of the "dot coms" out there. eBay has so well-implemented their business model that it's almost SOP for anyone who need to sell things in a hurry to a large audience to put it up for auction/sale on eBay first.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
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You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
A man who wants nothing is invincible
This seems to me to be a problem with multiple causes. One of the major ones is that the out-going lice attempt to grab any last possible benefits, and the incoming ones attempt to grab anything that they can plausibly blame on their predecessors. One of the examples of this is the current power mess in California.
The outgoing powerstructure has guaranteed the *** who ripped of the state during the "deregulation" of the power industry that their "theft" will be considered legal and untouchable. Notice that this was entirely done after a long period of Demo control over the appointments.
Now it is true that the Republicans instigated the deregulation, and helped write the rules as to how it would be done, so they aren't blameless either. And it's also true that deregulating the power industry was inherently a monumentally stupid thing to do. The investment required to compete ensures that there will never be any reasonable amount of competition. However
This particular action appears to me to have been carefully timed to occur during the change of office. I feel that it will have a massive adverse impact on the state's economy. But it was probably not done entirely from selfish motives. It is also true that the building of power plants in the state has been vastly complicated by regulations (adopted to protect the environment). One of the reasons that this mess is being allowed to occur is to enable those regulations to be eased so that more power plants can be built. I feel that it was scheduled so as to occur at the time when the largest amount of benefit could occur to many of the players. But it is also true that it would have happened eventually, possibly soon, in any case. By scheduling it now it becomes possible to create a fake emergency which can be lifted when the necessare degree of emergency is felt by the populace, and then the building can be started before the real emergency happens. It's also true that during the process a massive amount of money is being stolen (legally) from the citizens.
I don't really know whether to praise them or condemn them. But it will have serious economic repercussions. Just not as bad as they might have been. I do know that I get angry, depressed, furious, hopeless, etc. But this doesn't mean that it isn't the best available solution to the problem. And it's interesting that it is being so scheduled that each party can blame the other. I don't know how many events like this are happening that I just don't know enough about to comment on. I do know that listening to news from outside the state I would have no hint as to what was actually happening. Even on the local news it isn't made very obvious. A lot of this is pieced together supposition. E.g., nobody is admitting that this is intentional. They couldn't. But it seems pretty obvious. It's only the motives that are obscure.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
To bad any analyst will tell you recessions follow the president that caused them by about 4 to 8 years... i.e. the president in little to nothing to do with the current ecomony unless he does something really foolish or something very large (world wide scale) happens, look at your history books
Bush could never have gotten NAFTA through a democrat-controlled congress. Democrats were, on the whole, against NAFTA. I credit the success of NAFTA not on some excellent negotiations on Bush's part, but instead on Clinton's ability to bring a fair number of democrats to support NAFTA, so that it could get through congress.
I'm not quite sure what ou mean that "the only things that Clinton and the liberals in Canada were trying todo (sic) is screw nafta up by violating the agreement with illegal subsidies/protective restrictions/etc. for there (sic) respective backers unions/farmers/enviro-nazis". In case you didn't notice, Clinton did more to alienate the unions than any democrat in 3 generations (hence the support for Nader). The farmers, in case you didn't notice the results of the 2000 election, are conservative republicans. And I'm not quite sure what subsidies or restrictions were attempted vis-a-vis the environment.
--Be human.
Well said, especially the bit about the different waves of netizens. First come the scientists, then the geeks, then the .comers... and these days I get the feeling it's everyone and their grandmother.
Reminds me of what Roberta Williams once said about why Sierra's King's Quest games weren't selling too well anymore - computers used to be prohibitively expensive so only higher-earning (and hence, somewhat above average intelligence) people could get one. More recently just about everyone can afford one, which is why games have become less subtle and more geared towards the lowest common denominator (viz the demise of Infocom-style text adventures and the abundance of 3D shooters).
Clinton did 2 great things for the US, at least the male population: 1. redefined what sex was 2. kept Congress so busy with his impeachment proceedings that they weren't able to pass any stupid laws.
I didn't do it, and if I did, you can't prove it. Bart Simpson
you go away.
i could live a little longer in this prison
"For the first time, women comprise a majority of online gamers -- 50.4 per cent." Sorry but thats tied. Also, what perecentage of those female players are just playing bejeweled, yahoo hearts, etc? (Not that I dont play those but I sure as hell dont play them exclusively.) For you to tell me that more female gamers exist then male gamers would be to tell me shugashack.com doesnt exist!
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The creative minds that were being used for commercial purposes might decide to do something for free.
And we all know that only women play amazons. Oh wait I better change the name of my amazon from SquadBoy to something else. I really should get around to just blocking Katz.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
My prediction: computing will spur the creation of Open Societies, digital technologies being applied to open government, different models for doing business, a revamping of intellectual property and a breaking down of hierarchies, barriers between citizens and government, even some national boundaries.
Look, I'm a democrat. But I think you're forgetting the '78-'79 recession, coupled with double digit inflation and double digit unemployment. That recession made the other ones look mild by comparison.
As for the others claiming the economy is cyclical, do they honestly believe Clinton had nothing to do with the longest sustained period of growth the US economy has ever seen? What about the delta in the budget deficit? I happen to believe this is a result of centrist fiscal policy (Clinton was anything but a liberal democrat). Reagan, Ford, Carter, and "w" are all towards the extreme (at list vis-a-vis the US political system). I wholly expect the economy to enter into a recession under "w".
And now? 2% growth is not a recession. A recession is, by economists' definition, two successive quarters of negative growth. Hell, the '91 recession barely counted as a recession....
--Be human.
Look nothing I said was false. Clinton really did get educated on centrist, global free trade and he pushed it at a time when most Republicans were pulling back into an introspective, American-first attitude. They get it now (or at least some do), but Clinton pushed hard back when it wasn't nearly as popular as it is now.
________________
________________
Private Essayist
I don't think that anyone is in possession of sufficient evidence to come to a conclusion as to what the proper control structure is, where the proper points of control are, or how the various feedback cycles interact. Turning this into an essentially religious issue (i.e., declaring by fiat that one view is true, without good evidence) seems foolish.
One feasible possibile reason for the past economic boom is that the government was so stymied by political infighting, that they couldn't get anything unpredictable done. So companies were able to pland.
One feasible possibility is that the cuts in non-economic government spending and rapid expansion of the internet (reduced friction in money flow, etc.) allowed the increase of effective money supply. And that this stimulated the economy.
One possible explanation is that increased penetration of credit has allowed a large proportion of the population to spend money faster than they have earned it. If so, this must draw to a close at some point. Probably quite gruesomely.
These are probably all true to some extent, and interact in complex ways. To claim that the economy is cyclic is not to claim that it's periodic. Even the claim of a cyclic nature should be viewed sceptically. How much is just a game of labels? But the claim that it is periodic is clearly wrong, and very few make it explicitly. Certainly nobody who is taken seriously, even by a reporter (well, except possibly for the Weekly World News).
Don't ever think that the economy is less complex than a Kernel, even if it isn't all Open Source. That just makes debugging harder.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Wow, great analysis of the California situation. I think you are probably more right than anyone will ever admit.
It is fairly interesting to watch this unfold, while I sit here in South Dakota using power from our 4 hydroelectric dams.
Interesting assertion. Some proof (a hyperlink to a trustable site, e.g.) would be desireable.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Wow. That's the best euphemism for porn I've ever seen.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe Better a smartass than a dumbass.
HELLO?
Of course it did. If Bush Sr. had not sent us to the Gulf, oil prices would be out of control because a multitude of oil producing nations would be under the control of one leader.
We got involved right when we had to.
Oh, and the comment about cutting back on the crack? That was just low (aka -1: Troll).
That the net was *this* important to the world economy. Maybe thats because it isnt?
Lets take a few things from this article and look at them.. "the net was a hive of hackers".. I dont remember that? Do you? I suspect revisionist history is at work.
Gaming,once again, John, is not a "culture".. its gaming.
The reason a lot of dot.com's are going down are simple. 1) people are much more comfortable going to a store. Sure..some of us order crap over the internet.. but I find it much easier to find the *price* over the internet, and then go to my local retailer, and say "I can get it for this from them." It usually works, I get the discount price, I can take it home *then* and it doesnt get broken in shipping, or the company that sold it to me doesnt fall down the next day.
Impossible to navigate websites: There are companies that sell stuff on the net that I want.. but I wont patronize them simply because their sites are *STUPID*. Not difficult.. plain outright *stupid*. If these companies arent bright enough to let their web-coders design the page, rather than some highly paid yutz who comes in for a week, draws up an impossible plan, and then gives the afore-mentioned coders a horrible headache making it, (and me one reading it), why should I patronize them?
Basically, the Net is 1% useful stuff and 99% useless fluff.. and until that gets sorted out, I dont think most of these dot.com's are going to make a lot. Sure, a few will rise above, but the majority will suck, and continue to sink.
Thats my consumer dollar at work, folks. Dont blame the "tech industry" for the mistakes of the marketing and delivery people.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
-Down with the moral majority. I want to be the minority Green Day Rock
Look at Covad for example.. how in the world could a company like covad ever be valued at the amount it was (something like 9 billion IIRC). For a company with as small of a footprint as they have, without even owning thier entire network, the only reason they could be valued so high is inability on the part of the investors to comprehend and understand the technology and infrstructure behind the company. It was all about the service provided.. "This business is going to explode!" Well it did, but not in the way that was expected.
While people tout the benifits and possible revenues generated by any new technology (or use of existing technology), one thing investors must realize is that business and society in general is much slower to adopt and buy into such things. Partly because of fear of technology as a whole, partly because the rate of advancement is so fast, why would an individual (or business) Spend the amounts of time and money projected, when 2 months down the line there is something newer, better, faster, and cheaper.
I think the market is better served with more realistic valuations and slower growth. Sure, we won't have as many instant millionaires, but we also will not have people doing stupid things to protect their (overvalued) ideas.
Now if we could just get sorporate america's hands out of the pockets of the government and bring things back to the individual, we would be much better off.
Shameless Plug! If you like trance, tell me what you think!!
But it was the trickle down effect from the 80s that got us the boost we have enjoyed for 18years (1qt from 1982 to 2000 was down, and it was slight and it was in 1991)
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Why is it that JonKatz is the only one to submit slashdot articles that are consistently another ten paragraphs? The other guys occasionally go into more detail- but I'm usually pretty surprised if I see less than 5 or 6 paragraphs under his name. The funny thing is, for my major (science technology studies) I had to write a lot of the same crap he posts on here. You know, asking big deep questions, and then making no attempt to answer them... He might be trying to stir up a good forum by not answering, but my prof would have kicked my ass if I left so many open ended questions in one of my essays.
(1) Easier to shop around for low prices. With brick and mortar stores, uf I don't like the price, I have to DRIVE soemwhere to look for a lower price. Big hassle. Besides, with sites like pricewatch, my search for cheap is even easier.
(2) Sales tax free! I only buy from web stores that don't collect sales tax. And as long as I batch orders, the tax savings far exceeds the shipping costs. Oh yeah, FUCK use taxes. Ain't no way they can know.
(3) No hassle. No crowded malls. No traffic. No mall rats. No dinged car doors in parking lots. Less money spent on gas. Stuff comes to my front door.
(4) Selection. I live in a small town (pop 30,000) far from any big city. The web lets me buy things I could never find around here...including...
(5) International buying! Visa cards charge in Yen or in Pound Sterlings as easily as they do in Dollars, with no "currency conversion" surcharge.
Brick and mortar stores lack these advantages.
>'74 recession was under Ford(R)
>'82 recession was under Reagan(R)
>'90 recession was under Bush Sr.(R)
>'01 recession
Oh, come on now. Let's try to be intellectually honest, M'Kay? If we are to lay blame or heap credit on any particular political body, it should be the US Congress, not the President.
The President doesn't have enough power to control the economy, and shouldn't be tied to it that tightly.
How does Katz do it. He wastes so much space to say what I've been saying the past few weeks very concisely.
The Net, much like the economy is in a correctionary period.
There you go, that's all it would have took. The page after page of bullshit spewing out of Katz's mouth is more for his own gratification than for the benefit of his readers. I grow tired of his irksome tendencies to blow even the simplest analysis into a huge, overbearing, bore-them-to-death article (or worse, a series). But yet, like a really bad car wreck I wish I hadn't seen, I can't look away.
Katz makes me feel like that one comedian described (Lewis Black?) feeling when he heard, "If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." Ah, no, oh no, my head is going to explode.
------------
See Feed Mag for a send up of this very topic. It's set in 2004 and Amazon is still around, but it's selling shelter and berries.
Automatic Sites, LLC
Clinton, more than most folks at first, clearly grasped the concept of the global economy. He pushed for this, and the country benefited greatly in subsequent years as free trade exploded around the globe.
________________
________________
Private Essayist
On PBS there is a Money Week (or something like this) with Charles Ruckheiser (sp?). Every week he has a segment were he ranks various analysts predicitons.
I don't watch frequently, but it seems he checks them out for their mid-range correctness (6 months or so.) Only a few have been getting little "halos" the last couple of times I've watched the show.
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
If we are entering a recession, how the hell was that Bush's fault? This one is purley coming on based on Clinton totally ignoring the increase in fuel prices (affecting everyone, everywhere), and the timing on the dot-com bubble bursting. The good times (measured by the NASDAQ boom) were FAKE it was that irrational exuberance that Greenspan was talking about.
You are right about the centrist fiscal policy, but Greenspan's the one doing that. He's basically been running the economy as an engine and changing the mix by manipulating interest rates. It's actually very good fiscal policy. Look for the fed to lower rates 2 or three meetings in a row. But... something has to happen with fuel prices, or were in trobule. Manufacturing can only cut costs for so long before prices will have to rise (unless you sell electricity in CA then you can't raise prices). If fuel prices don't come down the only way I can see for the consumers to keep up their spending will be a tax break.
I've read the article and I found it extremely interesting. It's pretty balanced, I share the opinions, and I found myself nodding in agreement several times. /improve/ our living. They won't match, ever.
I only have one doubt: even if the Net will turn into a huge hoping-for-money machine, where VC will throw megabucks into it, what's wrong in that? they'll finance bandthwidth and free connession, but they cannot stop the "geek underground", the flow of information that runs under the fancy web graphics, under the high-speed tv streaming, and that uses just a low amount of resources.
on the long run VC will come and go, but people will start using the best technology for the lowest cost. NASDAQ means money. OpenSource isn't done for money but to
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
Just wondering why would someone moderate humour down as overrated? Is there an unwritten rule that humour shouldn't be moderated above 3?
From the /. faq: "Remember though, what rips your sides out may be completely inane to somebody else". Conversely whats inane to you might be funny to someone else. Just a personal grievance that I had to get off my chest.
Slashdot: Proof that a million monkeys at a million typewriters can create a masterpiece
If it's a thesis that is obviously misguided but overly long, people won't read it all and will assume that the author is super-smart.
good is evil, and evil, good.
What gets me is the way the news outlets report about "slumping" sales and people aren't buying enough. Why do people insist that corporations have a god-given right to sales?
Steven V.
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
Yet another argument that I think is valid is that the "novelty" has worn off. Two Xmas's ago my mom thought that shopping on the net was the coolest thing, and bought about half of my presents on-line even though she could have easily gone to a shop an bought the same things.
My mom still shops on the net, but she doesn't have that "wow this is cool" glow in her eyes when she is done. Now it is more of a matter of convenience.
The internet and e-business (sorry about the buzzword) are not going away, they are here to stay. Now it is a matter of turning it into a profitable business. If you aren't making money, then you aren't a legitimate business. Same with technology and all of the other sectors that really came into their own within the last several years. It is darwininan business - only the strong survive. You are seeing a sort of cleansing of the tech gene pool that is getting rid of the weak companies.
Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
. Do you really believe the Gulf War had *anything* to do with the boom of the 90's.
lemme turn this around.. do you really think it *didnt*? we went nuts on defense spending. That in turn makes its way into the hands of people. Look around.. how many people that you know of are in some way involved in a company that does some sort of defense contracting for the government? War means bigger contracts, at bigger rates.
We also shipped a *lot* of people off to war.. this causes a lot of money to change hands as well.. *(the government has to buy jet fuel and diesel just like we do). It also put a lot more money *into* the economy due to the fact that you suddenly had a *lot* of active soldiers drawing pensions.
Pay attention to some economics.. they cycle in 6 to 8 year rolls. Reagans trickle down economics (which work far better and for a much longer time than just handing money to poor people) are responsible for the growth that began towards the end of Bush's term.. and then Clinton was claiming credit for a week after he was in office.
That growth has been artificially expanded for the last 3 to 4 years.. unchecked spending and growth and a raise in the minimum raise without a raise in anything to compensate it. That doesnt work. Minimum wage goes up, and everything else goes up as well. (or should.. if it doesnt, we have big problems.) The oil/gas crunch of the summer has a lot to do with the sudden slowdown as well.. companies lost a *lot* of money on that one.. and people are beginning to feel it... Economic POLICY takes years.. but a direct hit to money comes much more quickly.
Prices are going to begin to rise.. and then will rise rapidly.. they cant do anything else. And thank this "boom" economy (and government regulation) for the power situation in california as well.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Nice cycle:
74-82 = 8 years
82-90 = 8 years
90-01 = 11 years
whoops... maybe there IS a little more to it you simplistic fool
Try taking a decent economics or banking course.. then you will understand, you poor mislead media follower.
maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Allowed, but not realized. Actual reduction was under 10% of the military budget (from peak cold-war spending levels) and the trend has been steadily upwards for the last 5 years or so, and will probably accelerate under 'w'.
-JS
Vanity of vanities, all is vanity...
why are most articles on the web shorter than this? because for some reason, maybe because we have so much information just itching for a clear shot at our retinas, people get bored or overwhelmed or just disinterested in any article that's too long, and has too much substance. we want short and to the point. hey, i've got 6 other sites to check out while i'm drinking coffee, not getting any work done-- just cut to the chase, ok?
personally i still like hearing other people's opinions and views. even if they aren't chewed up into little text bites for me.
to email, take off every 'zig'
Ive heard it on Liddy, CNNfN and CNBC
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You are bejeweling right now - arent you?
Try it - I dare you
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A Jon Katz article that I can actually agree with???
I think I'm going to be sick
Gotta go home for the rest of the day ...
What is the DotCom era? Isn't an era something that consists of several decades if not hundreds or thousands of years?
Personally I think that Jon has bought into the the media hype that he so vigorously complains about... the media believes this is an era so does Jon. The media believes there is a recession, so does Jon. The media believes that the Internet has somehow transformed us into super humans or something... so does Jon.
I'm sorry but judging from the people I go to school with, lots of people have the internet but it just isn't that important in daily life. Some of my friends (God forbid) only check their email once a week! They couldn't care less if the internet dried up and blew away. Our culture simply isn't defined by it, and I have to agree with an above post that the idea that a hive of family photos and quasi-porn such as Geocities does not a community make.
People are entitled to their opinions but Jon use something besides your dizzying intellect to back it up!
Never knock on Death's door:
The Anti-Blog
The one things that really pisses me off is the media coverage of the XMas shoppoing season. From listening to the news you would think that no-one bought anything, but in fact there was an increase over last years record-breaking holidy sales. FYI, an increase over a record would, by definition, be a new record. Duh...
Online sales were also a record.
Unfortunately, the heard mentality seems to take over so that during up times only good news is reported and remembered. In harder times only bad news makes it to the headlines.
On a different tack, as has been mentioned before a downturn in the stock market != a recession. Cynically, some politicians may want to "talk us into a recession" so that, in four years, they can claim they "saved" us during the next cyclical up turn. Reps don't necessaarily have a lock on this type of spin, it just happens that the change in power is going that direction this year...
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
"My prediction: ...Open Societies,..a breaking down of hierarchies"
I don't think we'll see Regulators and Moderators arising any time soon (I too read Sterling's "Distraction") . This Ameri-centric article seems to miss China, India, Russia, Africa, etc. Not only are they far from a Tech Slump but they seem relatively ripe for a virtual land-grab by the same capitalists that are mooning around over the western dot.com fallout.
These 'non-westerns' have always had less of a bottleneck to contend with relative to intellectual property. They also have fewer legacy systems, many have a dire need to improve internal logistics (food, medicine, entertainment), and there lots and lots and lots of people in these places that don't want their Societies opened, their Heirarchies broken, their culture lost.
As every good capitalist knows, these "problems" are, or will be, opportunities. The graduate students will get around to addressing them, the suits will do their money thing, and the same old cycle will go on.
you get dot.com's blazing across your screen with multi-billion dollar advertising campains. flasy ad's in your newspaper/magazines/online/billboards... and then they crumble months later.
Yes, advertising is an important budget line, but spending more in advertising then what your business is worth is nuts (See pets.com and petopia.com for perfect examples of what NOT to do) anyone with an ounce of business abilities knows this.
Many many of the dot.coms were failures before they open up shop, it's just that the 90's flurry of activity made venture-capitolists money crazy (as they missed on the apple and microsoft stock buys, and probably got a taste with a buy-in of netscape on their IPO... which is the mark of the start of all this madness) Many millionares were made, I wont dismiss this... but those millionares were made off of the pockets of the investors that lost millions to the dot.com's..
There are some that will make it. Redhat I believe will become a giant and the corperate flagship for linux (I know it makes everyone scream "NOOOOOOOO!" when they hear it.) I think the fun part is the next 10 years.... we get broadband as standard in our homes, and technology is changing 10 times faster than the last 10 years.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Yikes! I thought children still comprised the majority of online gamers.
When you look at the real numbers, Men probably constitute 12-18% and Women probably constitute 8-10%.
Female children are not women.
Male children are not men.
Hay thar.
It's like an Oliver Stone or Spike Lee movie - it looks good at first and seems well done, but it would be ten times better if a good editor slashed it in half.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
...the 1990's version of the pyramid scheme.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Hey, I feel the same way about rap "music", but just because I don't like it doesn't mean that it isn't culture.
They will go away when the disparities in pay balance out a bit and other career paths offer comparable rewards with all the opportunities that programmers currently have. Until then, people are going to crowd into the field until equilibrium is reached.
Anyone with even the slightest understanding of equity markets knew that stock in a company that made no money and had no tangible assets (that includes intellectual property like patents) was worthless. The dotcom boom was driven by the essential irrationality of our current equity trading system (to borrow a Greenspan-ism). The fundamental problem is not technology but some of our basic econimic structures. Reality #1 Technology has dramatically improved productivity, generating a dramatic increase in profit and a higher standard of living. Reality #2 A handful of individuals carry enough influence to make or break individual companies, market sectors, or even the entire economy with a single comment. Reality #3 The American public is just as irrational, basing consumer confidence on our perception of our leadership, hence the mentioned correlation between GOP administrations and economic slumps. Reality #4 For the most part, individuals who produce quality work appear to be finding jobs quickly because technology- especially the web and multimedia is here to stay. And a final Reality #5 If Americans would READ what financial analysts are saying they would know how ridiculous the current system is (eg. a company made a large profit, but its profit only increased by 6% instead of the projected 6.5% therefore the company loses value?) We are building a better world. Technology isn't the ends, it is the means. Let's not bellyache about the silliness of dotcom-ism and instead go make good stuff.
I've noticed something interesting...Whenever I read a Katz article, I lose interest half-way through. The articles start off pretty good, but then they seem to disintigrate into this mash of hyperbole and rhetoric. I find myself skipping to the last paragraph to get the gist of the article, and I still feel empty. I find myself thinking "so what?".
Occam's Razor: There is no Tech Slump.
Don't bother reading the article. It's a waste of time.
Now we see the bricks and mortar companies moving into this space. They've seen it can work from some of the examples, they've learnt as their dot-com competitors implode, and now they are ready.
Xmas 1999 - the biggest on-line toy retailer in the UK was e-toys. Xmas 2000 - it was Toys'R'Us.
At heart - if a dotcom thinks it can use the net to undercut the big boys - well the big boys can do it too. And they can sunbsides ther adventures in the web, and they don't ned adverts in the superbowl beause their brand is already there.
Question for the slashdot readers - one aspect of dotcommery was the way 'Net companies became powerful enough to merge on near-equal terms with trad companies. e.g. Time Warner AOL merger. Will the dot-com collapses affect these companies?
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
IBMs Q4 results made 2000 a growth year for them apparently, also services in general are growing, the PDA market is heating up etc etc.
All thats really happened is that PC have saturated the market, and its finally getting to the point were a 2 year old PC is still quite fast, especially if the bottleneck is a 56k modem.....
Also GSM phones must be nearing saturation, in europe at least, and people are waiting for 3G to upgrade etc etc.
My point is that IT spending is still high, is just that equipment has become commoditised and that the markets for traditional ststems are saturated. New items, PDAs, Ultra Portables with wireless comms, Portable digital TVs etc etc are still to expensive to be widespread, basically...
we're in a transitional phase
So, to come back to what Clinton did to spur economic growth, I think he was instrumental in reducing the deficit - which is what Greenspan wanted. Maybe that's all that Clinton did for the country: support Alan Greenspan's economic policies by reducing the deficit. Lets hope that George W. can do as good a job (on the economy).
To understand what's right and wrong, the lawyers work in shifts ...
And search engines and ISPs have given many thousands of people free and customizable web pages, sparking a culture that is expressive and personalized
I just have to laugh at the assertion that GeoCities is a "culture" of any sort! Homepages of family photos coupled with people pushing up to the limit of not-quite-porn, together in one place!
How exactly is this "Flamebait"? It doesn't seem particularly partisan. The author doesn't refer to Clinton as "Bubba" or to GWB as "the Shrub" or even "Dubya". Is it flamebait because he doesn't slam Clinton?
To understand what's right and wrong, the lawyers work in shifts ...
"For the first time, women comprise a majority of online gamers -- 50.4 per cent."
Statistic based on the ratio of amazon/sorceress players to barbarian/paladin/necromancer players on the battle.net servers.
Slashdot: Proof that a million monkeys at a million typewriters can create a masterpiece
It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat.
-- President Theodore Roosevelt.
1858-1919
High energy costs in Europe are largely caused by the excessive taxation of said energy. European nations need those taxes to pay for the cradle-to-grave benefits that they 'give' to their citizens.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
You're missing the obvious one: ONE-CLICK SHOPPING.
It was so innovative it was granted a patent!
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
Ironically, an end (or at least a substantial waning) to the dotcom culture could lead to MORE innovation.
When I was a grad student in the early 90s, there was quite a bit of interesting research taking place at my company. Novel computing architectures. Novel algorithms development. It was fairly easy to get a small but workable grant to investigate, and often implement, almost any feasible theoretical idea you could propose--- and this was during a major recession remember!
Then the dotcoms came. And now?
OS Research is virtually a dead field.
Research into any non-Intel processor architecture has virtually stopped. (Except for quantum computing... but notice: no dotcoms there, folks).
"Multiprocessing" now means SMP on NT or Linux.
Language research was stagnant for quite awhile, thanks to Java and C++. (Functional languages seem to be coming back into vogue now however. Again, notice: no dotcoms in sight).
And the general computing profession has basically morphed from a quasi-academic profession (remember, we used to be thought of as applied mathematicians) into something halfway between a plumber and car mechanic (guys who keep servers running and spin CGI).
I've been telling people for 4 years now that the internet boom is the worst thing that could have happened to the computing profession. If the shallow, soulless and stilting dotcom boom is really, really over then I will know in a couple years if I have been right or not.
:M
Hang on, I take exception with this one. Do you really believe the Gulf War had *anything* to do with the boom of the 90's. Do you think the Gulf War was even close in scale to the two World Wars? If you do, you probably should cut back on the crack.
Katz really does suck. I'm not trolling or anything, just expressing my opinion. I can't believe slashdot still carries this guy. Hell, I can write a few paragraphs catering to slashdot demographic and be about as insightful as this trash. Every articles has the same basic points. 1. "The media" doesn't get it. 2. Politicians don't get it. 3. We're starting an information revolution which will bring about a utopia for all. 4. Packed with references to "geek culture." Throw in a few pseudo-philosophical questions and you have one genuine Katz article.
Back when slashdot had a poll on whether or not to keep Jon around, I voted yes because I thought he might branch out and express some original and different ideas. Well, I was wrong. How long did he drag out the Columbine ordeal? The first article was decent. Leave it at that. Jon has a tendency to beat an idea to death. Perhaps it's because he's not good at expressing other ideas, or maybe he simply doesn't have other idea, or whatever. The end result is pages of mindless already-done drivel and still more pages of the same slashbots replying with the same thing.
Surely slashdot, being the large tech news/community site that it is, could attract someone with more ties to the community he writes about and an ounce more creativity. Jon's writing skills are decent, but he needs to stick to other areas.
I just heard somebody who had called into a radio program last night saying he was going to 'get into being a computer programmer for his new career.' It was obviously somebody who's never had any interest in the topic at all up to this point.
These people need to go away.
Hay thar.
As for the others claiming the economy is cyclical, do they honestly believe Clinton had nothing to do with the longest sustained period of growth the US economy has ever seen?
It had much more to do with:
-The ending of the cold war allowing a vast reduction in military spending.
-The vast amounts of investment wealth available from working baby boomers who will soon begin retiring.
-A fiscal policy of low interest rates by Alan Greenspan that decreased static savings accounts and increased stock market investments.
-Low energy cost spurred by high production in OPEC nations.
I honestly believe that Clinton had very little to do with the longest sustained period of growth the US economy has ever seen. Since you obviously consider his impact substantial, could you please list which of his policies had any direct or indirect effect on the economy?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
In reality I think allot of these companies don't have enough profits to cover them through the after xmas slump. Allot of companies have lived and died by xmas rush buying. Since there is so many online companies and stores and people seem to be about fed up with all the hype, sales overall for most companies were low.
Now since some of these companies are going belly up (3dfx still ticks me off) media seems to be forcusing on the fact that so many companies are going under and stocks are falling. The real result of all this is the thinning of the heard...the strong will stay, and the rest go away. This type of thing goes on all the time, so we have a lot more web programmers and it people looking for jobs, according to the commercial becoming nt certified could get you $65K a year (down from $75K 3 months ago). Maybe, just maybe, this will bring the demand down and the push for people who would make better sales people will stay away from IT and programming.
Overall, this is good for all of us and the technology world. And if the media wants to make a crisis of it, they can, my job seems to be stable.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
I'd chalk it up to the fact that you must be about 12 years old, except that you should know that many people were talking about a bounce in the market when Bush was confirmed the winner, on the mindless supposition that only Republicans are fiscal conservatives. That bounce did not happen, which does confirm your notion that politicians have less to do with economic conditions than you might think.
I'm also a little puzzled at the idea that suing the tobacco companies has anything to do with balancing the federal budget. You gotta stop believing everything you hear on AM talk radio. Reducing spending and increasing revenue due to the economy has balanced the federal budget, and Clinton can take some credit for that.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
And the same thing goes for the predicted 'slump' in the automotive industry. I'm looking outside and there are plenty of cars indeed. Also, my aunt likes to play bingo on Saturdays even though she has social phobia syndrome and she's a little too heavy to walk. How would she get to the community center without a car?
'74 recession was under Ford(R) ... hmm well ... maybe the Republicans are just unlucky ...
'82 recession was under Reagan(R)
'90 recession was under Bush Sr.(R)
'01 recession
---
Good riddance. These people were finally realized for the frauds they are (as evidenced by all the failed and non-profitable startups).
Those of us with real educations, i.e., degrees in computer and software engineering and who are in it for the long haul will come to be appreciated by management who by now has learned that reading a book on Java does not a master programmer make, but instead results in the horrific spaghetti code that any language, even Java and other OO languages can result in.
I for one, welcome the new stability to come.
The "slump" is probably referring to the unrealistic expectations of dot-coms success compared to their actual success. A business will not automatically succeed if it has a dot in it.
----------------------
The very fact that people are discussing the downs of the Dotcom age is proof that that it is still a very important surviving part of our society. No Farewell opportunities here.
There's always sufficient, but not always at the right place nor for the right folks.
The internet is partially responsible for the slump in PC sales.
Before the internet, everything on your computer got faster and every version of software needed faster hardware.
Along comes the internet, and even a 56K modem isn't fast enough to feed an average computer what it needs. The internet must cater to the masses stuck on slow internet connections, which limits software. People don't need new faster computers because the network is the bottleneck. A faster computer can't draw a GIF faster than the 56K can download it!
The "Broadband" we have now isn't really enough either. When we have enough bandwidth coming into our homes to watch at least 2 channels of HDTV over the internet, you'll see the PC market heat up again. VR will grow (Quake 3 + MUD,MOO,MUSH,etc).
I think Steve Jobs was right about one thing. The PC is not becoming obsolete in the face of PDAs and cellphones. Instead, it is becoming the hub of a digital lifestyle.
What remains to be stated is that for all the dot-com layoffs and all the dot-com busts and failures, the unemployment is fairly steady AND for every failed startup, a new startup pops up in its place. The media portrays the dot-com era slowing or even ending. Why? Because they're easier to point to than the brick & morter stores closing.
The media has been hyping the whole tech industry failing thing. If the .com rush is over then good. Im a web contractor, and I will admit I was abit scared when a lot of the .com start-ups started crashing (mostly because I like working at them), but quite frankly I've never had more work or more money.
I don't see it as failing, I just see it evolving.
-makoffee
..in that it's idealistic, and totally meaningless beyond that. The "tech slump" means that suddenly open source is going to rule the world and everybody's going to be happy and nobody will ever make the mistake of trying to make money off the internet again?
Please. I remember the "brave, young internet" before the VCs stepped in and gave us cheap bandwidth, thick pipes and massive technology bases: it sucked. It was mostly personal web pages on hobbie with the occasional boring rant and a lot of porn. Nowhere in sight were the massively useful coding help pages, community sites or information pages that have risen because of, and partially in spite of, this "massive captial investment." If it weren't for red hat's drive for proftiability, you wouldn't be using LINUX right now; and if you think they're just going to go back to being a small company again just because you think the tech slump should mean the death of the internet culture, you've got a rude awakening.
Now, I agree that there are going to be massive changes in the way things are done. Kitsch can't drive a page anymore, you're definitely going to see a lot more useful content. But because of this, you're going to see a lot more pay-for-play, and whether this is going to fly with the internet user is unknown. It certainly wouldn't fly with the paranoids that stalk many of these open source forums, wailing cleverly about the badness of closed standards. But this is what will happen: the internet will gradually become useful, one way or another, and touchy-feely open source won't be the catalyst: money will. Not the same quick buck IPO money that came about a year ago, but money's money in my book. Microsoft will grow, possibly as a provider of open source solutions (like its amazing XML parser, nicely designed web browser which was the first to support all the HTML 4.0 and ECMAScript directives and Oracle killing DB built on ANSI SQL). If being a monopoly means making great products, if VC means a few dead dumb ideas and a lot of great ones, and if open source means whining softly about how you'd prefer to hum in the shower than sing in a musical hall, I think I'll take the businesses,
Hey freaks: now you're ju
A bit over a year back I was working with a guy who was saving to make a down-payment on his house. He'd discovered a *completely* *fail-safe* *way* to make money: investing in dot-com stocks.
I'm a bit (read: a lot) older than him, and the whole thing was looking to me like a bit of a bubble. Hundreds of dollars per share for companies showing nothing but red ink. I warned him of this, but he went merrily on his way, dreaming as he was of high-rise apartment living in Buckhead (a more-expensive part of Atlanta).
Well, as time went on, his day-trading turned into moment-by-moment observation of stock valuations. Ups meant delirious happiness, downs meant deep, dark depressions. It was like watching a junkie going through serial highs and withdrawals on a minute-by-minute basis.
As things started going south he got his money out. Enough to go for a comfortable split-level, not too terribly far from Buckhead (your get the picture).
For me, the best thing about this decline is people getting productivity and balance back into their lives.
Now, if only CMTO, LGTO, and TSM would come back!
668: Neighbour of the Beast
C/C++: 67,000 to 38,000
java: 55,000 to 29,000
perl: 18,000 to 10,000
etc etc etc...
Yes, indeed, it is a DOWNTURN. That aint real hard to see.
PLUS, we have an enormous increase in H-1B's coming in--now up to 195,000. What was it only a year ago? 65,000?
I should have my BS CS in May, but I doubt it'll do me any good. Now where did I put that law school application....
Sig:
Navy nuke sub lifestyle?
The first generation Internet belonged to the engineers, dreamers and military researchers. The second belongs to the Geeks and the Dotcommers, who battled one another, sometimes directly, sometimes not, for attention and primacy. It was the Microsoft Era, and it's over.
This entire article suffers from the underlying assumption that the internet is somehow what the media makes it out to be, even while it proports to argue against exactly that! The internet has always been populated by engineers, dreamers, geeks, military researchers, and dot-commers, not to mention the Unwashed Masses. All that has ever changed is the proportions. The fact that the media fixated on the "dot-com phenomenon" during last few years didn't stop the engineers from engineering, the geeks from geeking, the dreamers from dreaming, or the military researchers from devising more efficient ways to kill and/or avoid being killed. It should also be noted that there's a significant amount of overlap between the above-mentioned groups. Many engineers involved in military research are geeks, and it would be hard to deny that most dot-commers are dreamers.
Katz acts as if it's some great revelation that things like Napster, Gnutella, and Freenet came to be during the "dot-com era." It's no surprise at all - the "dot-com era" was about the media fixating on dot-coms, not about what was really happening on the internet. The geeks kept on geeking, and more than a few really cool things emerged. I'm sure plenty of military research continued quietly in the background, too.
The dot-com era was not the Microsoft Era. If anything, the Microsoft Era is yet to come, and that scares me.
My prediction: computing will spur the creation of Open Societies, digital technologies being applied to open government, different models for doing business, a revamping of intellectual property and a breaking down of hierarchies, barriers between citizens and government, even some national boundaries.
Katz is showing his Wired roots again. Media outlets like Wired have been promising a technology-driven utopia for years now. So far, the closest we've gotten is Slashdot. <snicker>
The Net is almost ferociously anti-hierarchical. Online authority reflects online architecture -- it is so de-centralized that the idea of a central information control seems almost impossible.
Tell that to ICANN.
"If the best minds online return to some basic topics, themes and dreams, the Tech Slump won't be the nightmare Business Week imagines, but might turn out to be a Tech Salvation."
If we are in need of a Tech Salvation, what is it that we need to be saved from? Perhaps it's the general public being convinced by the media that there's going to be a slump that needs to be saved.
Every time you manage to close the door on Reality, it comes in through the window.
Isn't it amazing that now the bubble has burst, the same pundits who predicted the "Long Boom" are just falling over themselves to declare that the past few years were an anomoly? Check out CNBC sometimes. You'll be amazed at all the analysts who "saw this one coming" and "knew that the bubble would burst." Like most talking heads, Katz has an amazing ability to leap from one speeding bandwagon to another.
...but there is a slump in one way you seem to have overlooked. Tech jobs. Granted things were a mite overheated before, but a lot of wheat is being fired along with the chaff.
- Brian