"I told you to do a job, who can't look like a job, but suddenly it really starts to look like a job". [The Boss - Lucky Number Sleven]
(not quite a correct citation, I know, but could not look it up in hurry)
There are already lot of wild speculations - who can be done this, why this is done, etc. etc. - but what mostly strikes me is that lot of people in the West and Russia itself (and don't give me ironed out shit that no one cares - they do, they simple continue to live like in U.S.S.R. - don't piss on government and you will be fine) in matter of seconds would say that it is murder. And it is ordered by Putin. Because of revenge and anger atmosphere Russia have created around ANY criticism of ANY thing they do it feels really plausible. It is not like they first started to do it, it feels the same in US too, but at least there is no killings of opposition, just lot of character assassination.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, in the age of Fear.
Why it is always that big nations wants that someone (neighborhood, small countries in their nearest location etc.) loves them? For Christ sakes, we are no enemies, let's first get over the past (one thing what Russia definitely doesn't want, because they don't see that U.S.S.R. was a totalitarian, murderous regime) and let's start trading, cultural exchange (what common crowd usually wants, they are simply tired of politics). But hell no, Russia uses economical tools to punish it's neighbors, like Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukrainia... For what sake? It is the way to earn friends? It feels like Russia still have not gotten out of "strong hand" syndrome. Putin is very big evidence of that.
I fear for Russia future, because it is not definitely future that Russia would like to have. And I fear for rest of us, because if Russia won't be strong (strong hand syndrome "and let's be friends, then you will get a cookie" isn't evidence of strong country), there will be serious problems for all of us.
Because it is just ironically right? You can disagree with parent, but FOSS community - at least radical wing of it - doesn't want to accept responsiblity of getting widespread and minestream. They just want something that is free, but in real world, it is just more difficult that they want to admit.
People will take long ways to create illusion around them that something they believe in actually exists or have existed. Poor people, still linger to last leftovers of "belief".
Why I tagged this "ohhdear"? I believe in God, however, I don't think it has anything to do with Bible or this physical world. People simply can't believe something that doesn't not exist or at least have some evidence of it. People don't believe in God and Jesus because they want to be good, they want to feel good, just be a part of system of believe. They want to feel safe.
Jesus said love your enemies and forgive them. We don't. Jesus said don't kill and don't seek revenge (well, not directly, but...). We don't.
We don't want to believe. Creationism is just a "feeling-good-because-we-are-so-many-so-stupid" way of confirming that we are not wrong. That everything Bible says is true, because priest said so...and if they are wrong, religion and my belief should be wrong too, right? So it simply can't be.
Human is so weak when it comes down to reality and how we are selective to it.
Problem is that Linux server market is growing on shrinking of Unix server base. But when you will try to replace Windows servers in SMB market...simply forget it. There are TOTALLY different mindset there and they are afraid - and not maybe even afraid, as brainwashed - to believe what big, good old ole Microsoft says to them.
Double digit rates are because Linux has a lot of catchup to do.
Thinking that "fear from patents" are not based on reality and not impacting anything is very wishful thinking. At least let's be honest.
No, Microsoft/Novell deal isn't nothing, it matters, but please let's take that into acount that there are lot of companies who contribute GPL code, but have different NDA with different companies, patent licenses (IBM, for example), etc. Just because it BIG BAD Microsoft, it should be something deadly, right? World wasn't exactly black/white before this deal either, just let's check out Samba and Wine.
Ximian/Novell worked on lot of integration stuff of Microsoft document formats before. For OpenOffice.org to be accepted in majority of users, it SHOULD support Microsoft Office formats better than it is now, period. Like it or not, nothing else will help it. Yeah, OpenDocument is nice, but people simply don't care. And calling them idiots won't get you anywhere either.
So suddenly, all this stuff is "viral" now? How it is very different than before? AFAIK, just deal won't help Microsoft nor in court, nor with DOJ, if there will be change in direction of current things.
This Novell action was important, and no one is denying to have strong feelings about it, but please, at least do not make a hyperbole out of it.
WTF?! How this nearly off topic got modded insightful? You may or may not agree with theory, but somehow I live in a country where is lot of places where is no signs and people communicate quite actively. Maybe it is just because they don't rush trough the life, but live it.
My humble opinion is that amount of regulation usually doesn't affect people at all - those who follow common sense and drive sensibly, they don't need signs. But those who drive careless and "I-am-king-of-the-world", usually doesn't follow signs either.
It is easier to code on OS X also for one reason - you can throw EVERYTHING (and I mean really everything) in nice Application directory package (like Skype, Firefox), which is shown to user as single executable with nice vector's graphic icon. So - no dll hells, depencies, problems with various library versions. Yes, there are changes in subsystems of OS X and then you have to get upgrade, but it is far more easier that on Windows.
But this solution have one big drawback - duplication. OS X apps consumes memory like a elephants water. As Apple actually had no competition on their platform until recently, you can understand why they simply don't care about that. Apps eaten all your memory? Buy new one! Too slow? Buy new model!
Apple Macs can be sexy, stylish and really easy on eyes, but they are not really powerhorses, if we compare how much actually they could do (for example, seti@home on Mac is OMG cruncher, also single console apps are just roaring in performance on Macs), and how much they do (bloated bigger apps), they are definitely underoptimized .
1. First step - denial - "Bullshit, you won't produce 100$ laptop, is a vaporware, etc. etc. Better use those nice PocketPC with newest Windows CE!" 2. Second step (when real hardware is produced) - it won't work - "Yeah, nice hardware you have here...but know what, it won't help, it won't work for reasons it have been created. We know, we foreseen the future! They will sell it...emmm....(who would need such a crap anyway)...they won't find any use of it, they will trade it for food..." 3. Third step will be - never mind, you are there, let's copy you - "Huh, yeah, OLPC was a nice success, but see, we are better, because we worked on this device (half-baked copied attempt is shown), and it works much better. And there is Solitaire! Minesweeper! Word! All goddies! Buy us, please (sight)"
Microsoft way they see the world doesn't change. The same arrogance. The same "me, me, me" and we are much clever than others, therefore everyone should be steeling their IP...etc.
Microsoft, go fuck yourself. Let's see final results of trial in several countries and then let's judge this device. Probably all won't go smooth, but...
I hoped that Novell/MS deal was really something meaningful, not yet another PR/Marketing stunt from Microsoft. Putting all that "protection racket" bullshit aside, which I can buy a little bit, this Balmer speech asks for more serious investigation, because it just roars "antitrust".
So, next version of GPL will forbid distribute covered product by company? It is that right? Or I missing here, is there something so very important about FUD and PR, we can't address without change of license?
p.s. yeah, I trolled. I just start to wonder isn't that constant Sony bashing on/. doesn't come out from Microsoft astrosufers. Seeing slashdotter's sentiment about Sony evil side, it is far too easy. p.s.s. consoles are dangerous, they are making you jealous and fanboyant, and all that stuff:)
I don't plan to play dead, you misunderstood me. I was about to say that patents are reality, and we must fight them. If you think Microsoft actions are illegal - then try to push DOJ to do something about it. Try to get rid of software patents. Yes, it could require years, but I have seen no serious PR effort from geeks side to address these questions.
This deal is side issue, main issue is software patents AND I agree with you, Microsoft "illegal" tactics. I put this in bracket, because, before it is said by court, it is just opinion.
Software patents are reality. And Linux and lot of free software/open source apps violates them - they just weren't enforced because there was no one they can suck money out. It is harsh reality. So when now Linux gains some ground, wait for more patent suits, trolls, etc. to come.
It is reality. You can't escape from it, claiming that GPLv3 license will save you (yeah, right), or such overblown reaction will do any good than harm.
It is just selective reality to say that RedHat has never been affected by patents, that Ubuntu and Debian has never been affected. They are. And they will be. Because you can't write a single line of code these days without stepping on someone's patent.
Emotionally overblown reaction to "big evil Microsoft steps" now is a strategy? Which strategy? To loose?
Bruce, Linux is NOT, and I repeat, is NOT GNU hobby project anymore. It is serious system, with big ecosystem, with lot of commercial and noncommercial vendors. Why Linus should care about all that? He cares about that kernel stuff WORKS, and yet he does it rather well.
Yes, it is acceptable to worry about this situation, but you are not making friends between REAL everyday Linux users (who can't fight for whole freedom) nor real developers, who has to make decisions not according to GNU/GPL time to time. World isn't black and white, is it?
This is just overblown. Even Microsoft doesn't plan support Outlook Express anymore, yeah, they will put it into SUSE.
Wake up and smell !$#$%#$% reality. Deal is just about not sue each other, and Microsoft PAYS Novell about patents - yeah, that's right, Microsoft licenses them. And also deal is about OpenXML, SAMBA and other technologies which is for a sake of interoperability with Windows. Microsoft will help develop code for that, of course, most of it is GPL licensed.
It just feels like - "get away from me, Microsoft, get behind me, Satan, you will definetly screw up something." Well, why no one else said this about SCO?
Remember the history, but don't try to remember the future. If you will do it, you will be chained to today.
Bruce, it is not GPL violation, wake up. There are TON of layers involved in this deal - Novell, Microsoft. All ideological issues aside, don't you think they are already covered their tracks?
Or you will repeat this mantra just because it is only truly bad thing you can say about this deal (except of course part that you simply don't like it)?
Sorry, no offence, but it feels like wishful thinking.
You don't have DRMed music or video, they are copyrighted material, which belongs to copyright holder. They can allow or deny you to listen/watch this copyrighted piece. When you buy a CD or DVD, you agree it watch it on terms provided to you by copyright owner. Don't like them? Don't buy music, video, etc.
And by the way, "fair use" rights are only claimed in US, and even there it is not legally clear term.
And no, DRM is not evil. It is just here, used by copyright owners. Is their copyrighted stuff, and they have rights, written in a law. And you have rights, with owner's permission, to use it.
Software patents are proved that they are needless and very anticompetitive. They must go. Period.
I decided to post this under EVERY article about software patents, because no matter how good or bad example is, truth usually is that this patent will be never used in it's meant way. Can call me a troll, but after all sharade of Microsoft/Novell deal, after EU/EC fiasco, after all copyright extentions I have enough.
I call for political change in this field. Like it or not, guys, we must fight. And no more arguing that some software patents must be good, otherwise such silly concept would be never put into realisation, right?
And no more buts and "ohhs" and "but lobbies are too strong". I have never seen sysadmins and other IT people marching and protesting about ANY issue. We just wine and cry and when everything is happening in bad way, we all say "I told you so."
Not any more. At least, for me. Let's do it guys. Let's work for a change. You can support fight in Europe (http://swpat.ffii.org/) or you can try to build consensus and inform people in your home. Inform people in polite way about the issue, don't force point of view. Describe what consequences are here for all that.
Software patents HAVE BEEN REAL THREAT for Linux and free software FOR YEARS. Sooner or later, this kind of thing would be HAPPENING. Don't like software patents? Well, then DO SOMETHING AGAINST IT.
Just don't cry a river and don't be emotionaly naive about all premise - it all about business.
We can't fight against software patents ignoring them, or just puting claims in a licence that no one can use them against users. THIS won't work anymore.
Software patents must go. Concentrate on this, not on some marketing PR deal, which real impact is yet to seen (except people who are quite paranoid about everything happens around free software).
Repeat after me. There is NO open-source community. There is no free software community either. Please stop spread opinion that people who are really interested in openess and sharing of knowledge are some kind of cultists - they are different and prefer those things for totally different reasons. Yes, there are groups, but even in them opinions varies from member to member.
I don't use SUSE, but I love lot of Novell Enterprise stuff, like eDirectory, Groupwise, I like their work on Evolution. So call Novell "evil" would be totally flayboytant.
By the way, Fedora Core is unstable as hell, even comparing to SUSE, don't talk about Ubuntu.
Slashdot Mirror
"I told you to do a job, who can't look like a job, but suddenly it really starts to look like a job".
[The Boss - Lucky Number Sleven]
(not quite a correct citation, I know, but could not look it up in hurry)
There are already lot of wild speculations - who can be done this, why this is done, etc. etc. - but what mostly strikes me is that lot of people in the West and Russia itself (and don't give me ironed out shit that no one cares - they do, they simple continue to live like in U.S.S.R. - don't piss on government and you will be fine) in matter of seconds would say that it is murder. And it is ordered by Putin. Because of revenge and anger atmosphere Russia have created around ANY criticism of ANY thing they do it feels really plausible. It is not like they first started to do it, it feels the same in US too, but at least there is no killings of opposition, just lot of character assassination.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, in the age of Fear.
Why it is always that big nations wants that someone (neighborhood, small countries in their nearest location etc.) loves them? For Christ sakes, we are no enemies, let's first get over the past (one thing what Russia definitely doesn't want, because they don't see that U.S.S.R. was a totalitarian, murderous regime) and let's start trading, cultural exchange (what common crowd usually wants, they are simply tired of politics). But hell no, Russia uses economical tools to punish it's neighbors, like Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukrainia... For what sake? It is the way to earn friends? It feels like Russia still have not gotten out of "strong hand" syndrome. Putin is very big evidence of that.
I fear for Russia future, because it is not definitely future that Russia would like to have. And I fear for rest of us, because if Russia won't be strong (strong hand syndrome "and let's be friends, then you will get a cookie" isn't evidence of strong country), there will be serious problems for all of us.
p.s. I'm living in Latvia
Because it is just ironically right? You can disagree with parent, but FOSS community - at least radical wing of it - doesn't want to accept responsiblity of getting widespread and minestream. They just want something that is free, but in real world, it is just more difficult that they want to admit.
People will take long ways to create illusion around them that something they believe in actually exists or have existed. Poor people, still linger to last leftovers of "belief".
Why I tagged this "ohhdear"? I believe in God, however, I don't think it has anything to do with Bible or this physical world. People simply can't believe something that doesn't not exist or at least have some evidence of it. People don't believe in God and Jesus because they want to be good, they want to feel good, just be a part of system of believe. They want to feel safe.
Jesus said love your enemies and forgive them. We don't. Jesus said don't kill and don't seek revenge (well, not directly, but...). We don't.
We don't want to believe. Creationism is just a "feeling-good-because-we-are-so-many-so-stupid" way of confirming that we are not wrong. That everything Bible says is true, because priest said so...and if they are wrong, religion and my belief should be wrong too, right? So it simply can't be.
Human is so weak when it comes down to reality and how we are selective to it.
No, there is fear.
Problem is that Linux server market is growing on shrinking of Unix server base. But when you will try to replace Windows servers in SMB market...simply forget it. There are TOTALLY different mindset there and they are afraid - and not maybe even afraid, as brainwashed - to believe what big, good old ole Microsoft says to them.
Double digit rates are because Linux has a lot of catchup to do.
Thinking that "fear from patents" are not based on reality and not impacting anything is very wishful thinking. At least let's be honest.
How this is exactly news? How this is matter?
No, Microsoft/Novell deal isn't nothing, it matters, but please let's take that into acount that there are lot of companies who contribute GPL code, but have different NDA with different companies, patent licenses (IBM, for example), etc. Just because it BIG BAD Microsoft, it should be something deadly, right? World wasn't exactly black/white before this deal either, just let's check out Samba and Wine.
Ximian/Novell worked on lot of integration stuff of Microsoft document formats before. For OpenOffice.org to be accepted in majority of users, it SHOULD support Microsoft Office formats better than it is now, period. Like it or not, nothing else will help it. Yeah, OpenDocument is nice, but people simply don't care. And calling them idiots won't get you anywhere either.
So suddenly, all this stuff is "viral" now? How it is very different than before? AFAIK, just deal won't help Microsoft nor in court, nor with DOJ, if there will be change in direction of current things.
This Novell action was important, and no one is denying to have strong feelings about it, but please, at least do not make a hyperbole out of it.
WTF?! How this nearly off topic got modded insightful? You may or may not agree with theory, but somehow I live in a country where is lot of places where is no signs and people communicate quite actively. Maybe it is just because they don't rush trough the life, but live it.
My humble opinion is that amount of regulation usually doesn't affect people at all - those who follow common sense and drive sensibly, they don't need signs. But those who drive careless and "I-am-king-of-the-world", usually doesn't follow signs either.
It is easier to code on OS X also for one reason - you can throw EVERYTHING (and I mean really everything) in nice Application directory package (like Skype, Firefox), which is shown to user as single executable with nice vector's graphic icon. So - no dll hells, depencies, problems with various library versions. Yes, there are changes in subsystems of OS X and then you have to get upgrade, but it is far more easier that on Windows.
But this solution have one big drawback - duplication. OS X apps consumes memory like a elephants water. As Apple actually had no competition on their platform until recently, you can understand why they simply don't care about that. Apps eaten all your memory? Buy new one! Too slow? Buy new model!
Apple Macs can be sexy, stylish and really easy on eyes, but they are not really powerhorses, if we compare how much actually they could do (for example, seti@home on Mac is OMG cruncher, also single console apps are just roaring in performance on Macs), and how much they do (bloated bigger apps), they are definitely underoptimized .
1. First step - denial - "Bullshit, you won't produce 100$ laptop, is a vaporware, etc. etc. Better use those nice PocketPC with newest Windows CE!"
2. Second step (when real hardware is produced) - it won't work - "Yeah, nice hardware you have here...but know what, it won't help, it won't work for reasons it have been created. We know, we foreseen the future! They will sell it...emmm....(who would need such a crap anyway)...they won't find any use of it, they will trade it for food..."
3. Third step will be - never mind, you are there, let's copy you - "Huh, yeah, OLPC was a nice success, but see, we are better, because we worked on this device (half-baked copied attempt is shown), and it works much better. And there is Solitaire! Minesweeper! Word! All goddies! Buy us, please (sight)"
Microsoft way they see the world doesn't change. The same arrogance. The same "me, me, me" and we are much clever than others, therefore everyone should be steeling their IP...etc.
Microsoft, go fuck yourself. Let's see final results of trial in several countries and then let's judge this device. Probably all won't go smooth, but...
I hoped that Novell/MS deal was really something meaningful, not yet another PR/Marketing stunt from Microsoft. Putting all that "protection racket" bullshit aside, which I can buy a little bit, this Balmer speech asks for more serious investigation, because it just roars "antitrust".
Come on, we are talking about corporation here.
So, next version of GPL will forbid distribute covered product by company? It is that right?
Or I missing here, is there something so very important about FUD and PR, we can't address without change of license?
Yeah, nothing about lot of users will continue to dump Fedora and replace it with Ubuntu.
Just get fuckin over it. Mono is here to stay, like it or not. Maybe let's trop SAMBA too? Potential legal minefield. Potential IP violation.
People WANT. USABLE. LINUX. NOT RELIGIOUS AND ETHICALLY RIGHT PRODUCT. They want openness, but not religiously.
Which part of this text you don't get it?
Bruce,
Simply leaves us alone with your "selective reality".
Sorry about to be harsh but it seems more and more that way.
Peter.
Just sayin...:)
/. doesn't come out from Microsoft astrosufers. Seeing slashdotter's sentiment about Sony evil side, it is far too easy. :)
p.s. yeah, I trolled. I just start to wonder isn't that constant Sony bashing on
p.s.s. consoles are dangerous, they are making you jealous and fanboyant, and all that stuff
I don't plan to play dead, you misunderstood me. I was about to say that patents are reality, and we must fight them. If you think Microsoft actions are illegal - then try to push DOJ to do something about it. Try to get rid of software patents. Yes, it could require years, but I have seen no serious PR effort from geeks side to address these questions.
This deal is side issue, main issue is software patents AND I agree with you, Microsoft "illegal" tactics. I put this in bracket, because, before it is said by court, it is just opinion.
Software patents are reality. And Linux and lot of free software/open source apps violates them - they just weren't enforced because there was no one they can suck money out. It is harsh reality. So when now Linux gains some ground, wait for more patent suits, trolls, etc. to come. It is reality. You can't escape from it, claiming that GPLv3 license will save you (yeah, right), or such overblown reaction will do any good than harm. It is just selective reality to say that RedHat has never been affected by patents, that Ubuntu and Debian has never been affected. They are. And they will be. Because you can't write a single line of code these days without stepping on someone's patent.
Emotionally overblown reaction to "big evil Microsoft steps" now is a strategy? Which strategy? To loose?
Bruce, Linux is NOT, and I repeat, is NOT GNU hobby project anymore. It is serious system, with big ecosystem, with lot of commercial and noncommercial vendors. Why Linus should care about all that? He cares about that kernel stuff WORKS, and yet he does it rather well.
Yes, it is acceptable to worry about this situation, but you are not making friends between REAL everyday Linux users (who can't fight for whole freedom) nor real developers, who has to make decisions not according to GNU/GPL time to time. World isn't black and white, is it?
This is just overblown. Even Microsoft doesn't plan support Outlook Express anymore, yeah, they will put it into SUSE.
Wake up and smell !$#$%#$% reality. Deal is just about not sue each other, and Microsoft PAYS Novell about patents - yeah, that's right, Microsoft licenses them. And also deal is about OpenXML, SAMBA and other technologies which is for a sake of interoperability with Windows. Microsoft will help develop code for that, of course, most of it is GPL licensed.
It just feels like - "get away from me, Microsoft, get behind me, Satan, you will definetly screw up something." Well, why no one else said this about SCO?
Remember the history, but don't try to remember the future. If you will do it, you will be chained to today.
Bruce, it is not GPL violation, wake up. There are TON of layers involved in this deal - Novell, Microsoft. All ideological issues aside, don't you think they are already covered their tracks?
Or you will repeat this mantra just because it is only truly bad thing you can say about this deal (except of course part that you simply don't like it)?
Sorry, no offence, but it feels like wishful thinking.
[Ironic]Called "common people". They said that you can go easily away. They will stay.[/Ironic]
Owner of software patents can go after everyone, BSD included.
Sorry, there is no way out from this.
You don't have DRMed music or video, they are copyrighted material, which belongs to copyright holder. They can allow or deny you to listen/watch this copyrighted piece. When you buy a CD or DVD, you agree it watch it on terms provided to you by copyright owner. Don't like them? Don't buy music, video, etc.
And by the way, "fair use" rights are only claimed in US, and even there it is not legally clear term.
And no, DRM is not evil. It is just here, used by copyright owners. Is their copyrighted stuff, and they have rights, written in a law. And you have rights, with owner's permission, to use it.
Software patents are proved that they are needless and very anticompetitive. They must go. Period.
I decided to post this under EVERY article about software patents, because no matter how good or bad example is, truth usually is that this patent will be never used in it's meant way. Can call me a troll, but after all sharade of Microsoft/Novell deal, after EU/EC fiasco, after all copyright extentions I have enough.
I call for political change in this field. Like it or not, guys, we must fight. And no more arguing that some software patents must be good, otherwise such silly concept would be never put into realisation, right?
And no more buts and "ohhs" and "but lobbies are too strong". I have never seen sysadmins and other IT people marching and protesting about ANY issue. We just wine and cry and when everything is happening in bad way, we all say "I told you so."
Not any more. At least, for me. Let's do it guys. Let's work for a change. You can support fight in Europe (http://swpat.ffii.org/) or you can try to build consensus and inform people in your home. Inform people in polite way about the issue, don't force point of view. Describe what consequences are here for all that.
...I would I believe him. For me, this interview is very informative, thank you very much :)
For Christ sake, take a reality dose.
Software patents HAVE BEEN REAL THREAT for Linux and free software FOR YEARS. Sooner or later, this kind of thing would be HAPPENING. Don't like software patents? Well, then DO SOMETHING AGAINST IT.
Just don't cry a river and don't be emotionaly naive about all premise - it all about business.
We can't fight against software patents ignoring them, or just puting claims in a licence that no one can use them against users. THIS won't work anymore.
Software patents must go. Concentrate on this, not on some marketing PR deal, which real impact is yet to seen (except people who are quite paranoid about everything happens around free software).
Repeat after me. There is NO open-source community. There is no free software community either. Please stop spread opinion that people who are really interested in openess and sharing of knowledge are some kind of cultists - they are different and prefer those things for totally different reasons. Yes, there are groups, but even in them opinions varies from member to member.
I don't use SUSE, but I love lot of Novell Enterprise stuff, like eDirectory, Groupwise, I like their work on Evolution. So call Novell "evil" would be totally flayboytant.
By the way, Fedora Core is unstable as hell, even comparing to SUSE, don't talk about Ubuntu.