This CNN shill article is pure propaganda. Note that 2 of the 3 relocators mentioned are Indians who had previously located to the U.S.
You'll also note that the article talks alot about resumes being sent and job boards but not about the number of visas issued. Where is that info?
Between 1998 and 2003 400,000 Indians *per year* came to the U.S. on H-1B alone. Where are the 1.9 million visas issued to Americans from India? The article doesn't talk about that.
Once again the news media is trying to create a reality that doesn't exist by warping and twisting information.
Deport all guest workers from American NOW. Send them ALL back to India if India is booming so much. They don't need to come here for jobs anymore according to this article.
"30% tax on $20/hr? even here in "socialist" canada it's more like 16%. i think you have a "fact problem"
It's you who have the fact problem - most Americans pay way more than 30% - more like 50%. For example if you live in CA and make more than $75K a year you pay 38% fed, 9% CA, plus $.18 federal and $.18 state on every gallon of gas you pump, illegal phone taxes mandated by Al Gore (but never passed by Congress), taxes on your car, hotels, energy, everything except air. In reality Americans are being taxed into the poor house.
"i assume you think that your taxes just evaporate or something."
They do. We pay and pay and pay and get nothing in return from the gov't. It's theft plain and simple.
"are you willing to live with reduced:"
police protection -- We already are health care -- The U.S. health care system is collapsing. The average American cannot affod health insurance.
subsidized education -- Subsidized by whom?
general infrastructure -- The roads in SIlicon Valley are collapsing. No infrastructure there.
unemployment and old age security -- Social Security is approaching insolvency.
public safety (ie fda inspections) -- We had 9/11 and now mad cow. That's the kind of 'saftey' we get for our 50%.
price controls on inelastic commodities -- Why? space program -- The space program is paid for 100% with BORROWED MONEY, not taxes. Check your figures. 100% of all taxes collected in the U.S. go to pay the interest on the debt, not 'programs'. Programs are paid for by borrowing, not by taxes. Which is just the way the bankers like it.
Unless it's the USA. Then it's hard to get a job if you ARE a citizen.
No other country would tolerate this.
"Separately, the State Council of the People's Republic of China in August directed all government ministries to buy only Chinese software in the next upgrade cycle in an effort to encourage the development of local software companies but also to protect sensitive government data."
I would ban anything from any nation that does not allow free trade.
Indian companies can export 4 million programmers to the U.S. yet it is illegal to hire Americans in India.
The result of this (in any nation) can only be the *transfer of wealth* from the importing nation to the exporting nation.
Globalism is a lie being sold to us under the guise of 'free trade'. It is in fact, siphoning off America's wealth.
$4 billion in USD was *transferred* from the U.S. to India in 2002 alone. Why do you think we have these huge trade deficits?
Trade deficits == transfer of wealth. And the U.S. is $500 billion in the red.
It's all a scam. Don't forget FTAs which allow UNLIMITED numbers of workers to come into the U.S. while it si still illegal to hire Americans in India.
The American worker is being replaced en masse. Why do you think we hear about all these layoffs all over the place? IBM was caught yesterday laying of 15,000 due to what it said was "slowdown in global corproate IT spending".
Well, guess what? IBM then filled an SEC report saying that its demand for worldwide services was "very strong".
The message is clear: lay off all the Americans REPLACE them with imported guess workers.
Oh yeah, next we are importing nurses and teachers.
The American worker is DOOMED.
It's not Bush's fault - except that he's stupid and ignorant of what is going on. He's probably totally unaware of the worker visa thing.
It was CLINTON who signed the America Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act which opened the floodgates to allow 195,000 H-1Bs in every year. Oh, and those aren't the real numbers. It has really been close to 300,000 every single year since 2000.
Oh yeah, and the U.S. consulate in Chennai says it will be 750,000 per year coming in from India alone by 2005. If you think the job market is bad now........
Oh yeah oh yeah - forget visas, the gov't has learned a new trick: Free Trade Agreemnents. Under the Chile/Singapore Free Trade Agreement, UNLIMITED numbers of "guest workers" can come in without any restrictions. The more FTAs we sign, the more workers will come in. The ensuing flood will make the visa limits look like an eyedropper's worth.
Oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah - also, the President now has sole authority to sign FTAs as he pleases - no Congressional approval needed.
The American worker is DOOMED.
Now YOU got it right. It's NOT about jobs going overseas. The problem is the VAST invasion of the U.S. by "temporary guest workers" who are not so temporary after all.
If you follow this Tandoori invasion to its logicial conclusion, U.S. corps will want to take all they can get. If they can, they will replace ALL 180 million U.S. workers with imported, cheaper workers.
Last time, I checked, the U.S. still belonged to the PEOPLE of the U.S. We CAN stop this - simply demand your Congressperson repeal all the guest worker laws. If they refuse, stop paying your taxes.
You are incorrect about one thing tho: there is no requirement in the guest worker visa laws that says an imported worker can ONLY be hired if a 'qualified' American cannot be found. Even if there were, there is no way to enforce that provision. Any company can simply submit the LCA and lie on it.
The end of this will be that 180 million workers from India, China, wherever will come into the U.S. and REPLACE the 180 million U.S. workers. In the no to distant future, Americans will not be able to find jobs AT ALL.
Can the U.S. really take the entire population of India? Are we going to import 1 billion people? Do you really think corps will want to pay American wages once that has happened?
We are, in effect, turning the U.S. into a 3rd world country like India because we are importing its population here.
The American worker has no future if this continues.
It's not state law - it's FEDERAL law. It's called "Non-immigrant work visas" and it's a total scam being used to REPLACE American workers. The U.S. can import 4 million workers from India since 2000 to take IT jobs HERE, but in India it's ILLEGAL to hire Americans. Where is the great and fair WTO on THAT.
Globalism is a scam designed to siphon the wealth of American off into other nations.
You're smoking crack too. Tata, Wipro, and InfoSys sure as hell can move their workers across borders - 4 million from Indian alone into the U.S. since 2000. It's *other* countries who won't allow it.
Now in theory WTO is supposed to make everyone play by the same rules. But as the article showed, it is *illegal* to hire Americans in India.
As Orwell would say "some animals are more equal than others" under the WTO.
"Globalism" is a scam designed to siphon off the wealth of the U.S. We're globalizing, the rest of the world isn't.
Well it IS in violation of the law. U.S. law forbids discrimination in hiring on the basis of national origin. But guess what? The EEOC will NOT investigate ANY complaints filled by AMERICANS. Imagine being locked out of your own job market in your OWN country because 4 million non-immigrant guest workers have been imported to fill you jobs. Only in the U.S. will this be tolerated.
That may be the law in most places, but it sure isn't in the U.S. In the U.S. it's perfectly legal to lay off a U.S. citizen and replace him with an imported "guest worker". Only in America. No other country on earth would tolerate this. Where is the WTO? All the other countries of the world scream that the U.S. is protectionist, but where is the WTO telling India to open its labor markets to AMerican programmers?
Oh, and by the way, it wasn't a bunch of U.S lawyers that convinced congress to do this to the U.S. it was NASCOM - the Indian IT lobby.
The point is: globalism is a lie. What we have today is no globalism, it's ONE-SIDED globalism. The world can send millions of workers to the U.S. but no other country on earth will tolerate this kind of flood of "non-immigrant labor" - 4 million and counting just since 2000 alone.
You're smoking crack too. Just get an H-1B or L-1 - you can come in right away - even without any skills. Oh, and American workers will be happy to train you for your new job here just before they get replaced by you.
What have you been smoking? The U.S. IS flooded with IT personell from all over Asia. *4 million* have come to the U.S. alone since 2000.
For those of you who have read Orwell, "Some animals are more equal than others" under the WTO. The U.S. is globalizing, the rest of the world isn't. We have to take the entire world's surplus workers, but no one will hire Americans. In China the law says all foreign businesses must hire 50% local Chinese workers. Where is the WTO?
There is no such thing a Quick & Dirty - only dirty. The best solution is to never tell the Marketing weenies about the 'quick' solution in the first place. You are the programmer damnit, do it your way. Otherwise they will *always* tell you to go the quick route then blame you later. This will continue ad infinitum until so much crap code and bugs build up that you can't ever straighten the mess out. you don't tell marketing how to do their pathetic jobs why should they tell you how to do yours? The clean and proper approach is *always* better because in the long run it *is* the fastest route. Never let anyone, especially someone who has never coded how to do your job.
Slashdot Mirror
This CNN shill article is pure propaganda. Note that 2 of the 3 relocators mentioned are Indians who had previously located to the U.S.
You'll also note that the article talks alot about resumes being sent and job boards but not about the number of visas issued. Where is that info?
Between 1998 and 2003 400,000 Indians *per year* came to the U.S. on H-1B alone. Where are the 1.9 million visas issued to Americans from India? The article doesn't talk about that.
Once again the news media is trying to create a reality that doesn't exist by warping and twisting information.
Deport all guest workers from American NOW. Send them ALL back to India if India is booming so much. They don't need to come here for jobs anymore according to this article.
Ha ha. Man are you the one who is ignorant:
"30% tax on $20/hr? even here in "socialist" canada it's more like 16%. i think you have a "fact problem"
It's you who have the fact problem - most Americans pay way more than 30% - more like 50%. For example if you live in CA and make more than $75K a year you pay 38% fed, 9% CA, plus $.18 federal and $.18 state on every gallon of gas you pump, illegal phone taxes mandated by Al Gore (but never passed by Congress), taxes on your car, hotels, energy, everything except air. In reality Americans are being taxed into the poor house.
"i assume you think that your taxes just evaporate or something."
They do. We pay and pay and pay and get nothing in return from the gov't. It's theft plain and simple.
"are you willing to live with reduced:"
police protection -- We already are
health care -- The U.S. health care system is collapsing. The average American cannot affod health insurance.
subsidized education -- Subsidized by whom?
general infrastructure -- The roads in SIlicon Valley are collapsing. No infrastructure there.
unemployment and old age security -- Social Security is approaching insolvency.
public safety (ie fda inspections) -- We had 9/11 and now mad cow. That's the kind of 'saftey' we get for our 50%.
price controls on inelastic commodities -- Why?
space program -- The space program is paid for 100% with BORROWED MONEY, not taxes. Check your figures. 100% of all taxes collected in the U.S. go to pay the interest on the debt, not 'programs'. Programs are paid for by borrowing, not by taxes. Which is just the way the bankers like it.
Unless it's the USA. Then it's hard to get a job if you ARE a citizen. No other country would tolerate this. "Separately, the State Council of the People's Republic of China in August directed all government ministries to buy only Chinese software in the next upgrade cycle in an effort to encourage the development of local software companies but also to protect sensitive government data."
I would ban anything from any nation that does not allow free trade. Indian companies can export 4 million programmers to the U.S. yet it is illegal to hire Americans in India. The result of this (in any nation) can only be the *transfer of wealth* from the importing nation to the exporting nation. Globalism is a lie being sold to us under the guise of 'free trade'. It is in fact, siphoning off America's wealth. $4 billion in USD was *transferred* from the U.S. to India in 2002 alone. Why do you think we have these huge trade deficits? Trade deficits == transfer of wealth. And the U.S. is $500 billion in the red.
It's all a scam. Don't forget FTAs which allow UNLIMITED numbers of workers to come into the U.S. while it si still illegal to hire Americans in India. The American worker is being replaced en masse. Why do you think we hear about all these layoffs all over the place? IBM was caught yesterday laying of 15,000 due to what it said was "slowdown in global corproate IT spending". Well, guess what? IBM then filled an SEC report saying that its demand for worldwide services was "very strong". The message is clear: lay off all the Americans REPLACE them with imported guess workers. Oh yeah, next we are importing nurses and teachers. The American worker is DOOMED.
It's not Bush's fault - except that he's stupid and ignorant of what is going on. He's probably totally unaware of the worker visa thing. It was CLINTON who signed the America Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act which opened the floodgates to allow 195,000 H-1Bs in every year. Oh, and those aren't the real numbers. It has really been close to 300,000 every single year since 2000. Oh yeah, and the U.S. consulate in Chennai says it will be 750,000 per year coming in from India alone by 2005. If you think the job market is bad now........ Oh yeah oh yeah - forget visas, the gov't has learned a new trick: Free Trade Agreemnents. Under the Chile/Singapore Free Trade Agreement, UNLIMITED numbers of "guest workers" can come in without any restrictions. The more FTAs we sign, the more workers will come in. The ensuing flood will make the visa limits look like an eyedropper's worth. Oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah - also, the President now has sole authority to sign FTAs as he pleases - no Congressional approval needed. The American worker is DOOMED.
Now YOU got it right. It's NOT about jobs going overseas. The problem is the VAST invasion of the U.S. by "temporary guest workers" who are not so temporary after all. If you follow this Tandoori invasion to its logicial conclusion, U.S. corps will want to take all they can get. If they can, they will replace ALL 180 million U.S. workers with imported, cheaper workers. Last time, I checked, the U.S. still belonged to the PEOPLE of the U.S. We CAN stop this - simply demand your Congressperson repeal all the guest worker laws. If they refuse, stop paying your taxes. You are incorrect about one thing tho: there is no requirement in the guest worker visa laws that says an imported worker can ONLY be hired if a 'qualified' American cannot be found. Even if there were, there is no way to enforce that provision. Any company can simply submit the LCA and lie on it.
The end of this will be that 180 million workers from India, China, wherever will come into the U.S. and REPLACE the 180 million U.S. workers. In the no to distant future, Americans will not be able to find jobs AT ALL. Can the U.S. really take the entire population of India? Are we going to import 1 billion people? Do you really think corps will want to pay American wages once that has happened? We are, in effect, turning the U.S. into a 3rd world country like India because we are importing its population here. The American worker has no future if this continues.
It's not state law - it's FEDERAL law. It's called "Non-immigrant work visas" and it's a total scam being used to REPLACE American workers. The U.S. can import 4 million workers from India since 2000 to take IT jobs HERE, but in India it's ILLEGAL to hire Americans. Where is the great and fair WTO on THAT. Globalism is a scam designed to siphon the wealth of American off into other nations.
You're smoking crack too. Tata, Wipro, and InfoSys sure as hell can move their workers across borders - 4 million from Indian alone into the U.S. since 2000. It's *other* countries who won't allow it. Now in theory WTO is supposed to make everyone play by the same rules. But as the article showed, it is *illegal* to hire Americans in India. As Orwell would say "some animals are more equal than others" under the WTO. "Globalism" is a scam designed to siphon off the wealth of the U.S. We're globalizing, the rest of the world isn't.
Well it IS in violation of the law. U.S. law forbids discrimination in hiring on the basis of national origin. But guess what? The EEOC will NOT investigate ANY complaints filled by AMERICANS. Imagine being locked out of your own job market in your OWN country because 4 million non-immigrant guest workers have been imported to fill you jobs. Only in the U.S. will this be tolerated.
That may be the law in most places, but it sure isn't in the U.S. In the U.S. it's perfectly legal to lay off a U.S. citizen and replace him with an imported "guest worker". Only in America. No other country on earth would tolerate this. Where is the WTO? All the other countries of the world scream that the U.S. is protectionist, but where is the WTO telling India to open its labor markets to AMerican programmers? Oh, and by the way, it wasn't a bunch of U.S lawyers that convinced congress to do this to the U.S. it was NASCOM - the Indian IT lobby.
The point is: globalism is a lie. What we have today is no globalism, it's ONE-SIDED globalism. The world can send millions of workers to the U.S. but no other country on earth will tolerate this kind of flood of "non-immigrant labor" - 4 million and counting just since 2000 alone.
Read this and then come back and we'll talk. http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/Horror.htm
You're smoking crack too. Just get an H-1B or L-1 - you can come in right away - even without any skills. Oh, and American workers will be happy to train you for your new job here just before they get replaced by you.
What have you been smoking? The U.S. IS flooded with IT personell from all over Asia. *4 million* have come to the U.S. alone since 2000. For those of you who have read Orwell, "Some animals are more equal than others" under the WTO. The U.S. is globalizing, the rest of the world isn't. We have to take the entire world's surplus workers, but no one will hire Americans. In China the law says all foreign businesses must hire 50% local Chinese workers. Where is the WTO?
There is no such thing a Quick & Dirty - only dirty. The best solution is to never tell the Marketing weenies about the 'quick' solution in the first place. You are the programmer damnit, do it your way. Otherwise they will *always* tell you to go the quick route then blame you later. This will continue ad infinitum until so much crap code and bugs build up that you can't ever straighten the mess out. you don't tell marketing how to do their pathetic jobs why should they tell you how to do yours? The clean and proper approach is *always* better because in the long run it *is* the fastest route. Never let anyone, especially someone who has never coded how to do your job.