>Any lawyers that could clarify this? If it is still infringement if someone reverse engineers >it and comes up with a similar or an exact copy of a patent?
IANAL: But it is my understanding that a patent basicly protects an implementation of an idea. So yes a reverse engineered solution would be considered infringement of a patent if the implementation is basicly identical.
If someone steals a car, lets say a Ford. Then if it turns out there was a design fault on the car brakes and the thief runs over someone because of this. Then Ford would *NOT* get of the hook just because the car was stolen.
Patches to operating systems are more analogous to repairs of design faults than gas refill, oil changes or other regular services.
-- please ignore bad spelling/grammar, english is not exactly my first language:-)
>So, in short, your statement, while superficially correct, is not relevant except to >the few people who have *their own* servers.
Utter bullshit, most people does not forward their email through mydomain.com or any other "free forwarding providers" but uses the email address their ISP gave them directly.
If your email is "mission critical" then you should better make damn sure you have control over how this email is delivered and that your capable of receiving it. Dont blame AHBL (or your ISP) because you screwed up yourself using a stupid scheme to receive important email.
BTW: If a potential employer wants to send out interview invitations to job applicants, dont you think they would suspect they have a problem when half the invitiations bounces telling them they are blacklisted?
Basicly your trying to shift the problem from sender to receiver, it's not the receiver that's blacklisted and generally (assuming not using stupid redirect trick) would not have a problem.
>My mother doesn't know how to run her own email server in order to be able to specify her own >email filtering policy, and neither should she have to.
Then she should take her money somewhere else, this is the only thing in the long run that would make ISP's police their own networks.
>I have no control over what blacklist policies are used on sites I want to send email to. If >my range gets blacklisted because my ISP doesn't crack down on spammers, according to >some self-appointed authority that "runs out of patience", what am I supposed to do if someone >I want to email trusts this self-proclaimed authority? Find someone else to email?
Yes, perhaps you should find someone else to email. You might not like that someone you want to email does not want to receive your communication. But it is their god damn right to do so (their line, their server, their money), as I said earlier: It is not AHBL that blocks email, they only provide the list to those who whishes to do the blocking.
>I'll support you the day I stop losing legitimate emails as a result of your actions
Then stop using the AHBL blacklisting service.
You really have no idea how smtp and spam blacklist's work at all do you?
AHBL does not block a single email them self, in fact they do not have that kind of power, they only provides email administrators with an easy way to block IP's or IP ranges with known spammers.
If someone running an email server then choose to use the AHBL to block all email's from those IP's, then that is their rights to do so, no one have the right to force them to accept email to their own servers.
If you do not support this or can not accept such a policy, then your free to move your business to another email server that does not use AHBL or you might even set up your own email server accepting all email and spam alike.
>The difference is that with my idea, all computers are blacklisted by default; only those servers who maintain a billing account with the receiving ISP are allowed to send mail to them
Do you have any idea how many ISPs, domains and email servers there exists in the world?
This is excactly the way X.400 mail worked and the reason why it did not (and never could have) scale up to the hundreds of millions users Internet email have.
>You probably have the entire server/desktop team working on the updated anti-virus software and how to deploy it.
Oh come on now! Windoze have been swamped with these viruses for years now, if you administrate any network with more than just a few windows boxes and still after all these years have to take the round on every one of them to install virus updates, patches etc then you really should start looking for a new job!
>While I agree with you that management can and does make some horrible decisions that kill >people; looking at the site of the foam impact and seeing a hole would have ment that the >astronauts could choose to die in space or coming back to earth, not that they could have survived.
You should read the official report, it's written in a very accessible language and does not agree with the "no rescue possible theory":
>You and I both know that "DVD Jon" was perfectly able to view his DVD under the spacifics of the agreement he agreed to when he purchased the DVD
Well in fact the court actually equalled these kind of "agreements" with private law addendums, something they do not look kindly upon.
In short the court ruled that if you buy a DVD then you own that specific DVD-disc and can use whatever means you damn well please to view the content.
>I think it's common sense that if you're a defendant and found not guilty that you shouldn't have to pay. Frankly, I'm surprised >something like this doesn't exist already. Perhaps if the plaintiff had to pay ALL court costs if he/she lost there would be fewer >nonsensical lawsuits.
It already does exist, legal representation is covered by the norwegian government in all criminal cases (and some civil cases too if your financial status is below a certain level) and it does not matter if you win or lose if it is a criminal case, legal representation is free anyway. In civil cases the looser usually have but not always to pay the other parts legal costs, the court can make the loser pay some or all of the winners costs depending on what the judge thinks is fair.
Also the public defenders are not second rates employed by the government but private lawyers paid by an hourerly rate which is in fact quite high. If you dont like the lawyer that get apointed to you, then you can always choose another one yourself. Most will happily accept the public rates since its higher than many lawyers would be able to claim at the free market anyway. Of course this means we (norwegians) get both good legal representation, and some of the worlds highest taxes to pay for it all...
Jon is not countersuing to get back legal costs, he simply wants some compensation for what he has been going through the last few years.
>Better comparison would have been a fully loaded Z900 and equivalent number of CPUs in Wintel servers.
I think a better comparison would have been Windows and Linux running web server on excactly the same hardware. But of course that might not have given Microsoft the results they wanted.
Why do you think they bothered with the Z900 when Linux is capable on running just fine on the 2CPU Xeon server?
The testing they did in that particular benchmark probably tells more about the cost/performance difference between mainframes and intel servers and have nothing at all to do with Windows/Linux.
If all he did was point his browser at itunes.com and buy the song using his own credit card, then the norwegian courts would not give a rat's ass about Apple really not wanting to sell it to him.
Same thing goes if he bought it while actually beeing in USA (vacation or something).
He did not "just barely got away with it", in fact the courts told the prosecution that what they claim he did - is in fact perfectly legal. That does not sound like "just barely" in my ears.
Okokrim (the norwegian crime unit that investigates these kind of things) would have to be pretty thick to arrest him for a similar case when they just lost the previous case in two different courts.
Of course soon Norway and the rest of europe will ratify the new european DMCA equivalent and then this will in fact be illegal, but this has not happened yet so Jon is perfectly safe for now.
>If any prescedent was set, it is presumably that >writing and distributing software to bypass copy >protections are legal in Norway. This would put >Norway smack dab where the United States was >legally before the advent of the DMCA. It's >legal to write and distribute the tools, but the >actual act of copying DVDs is still copyright >infringement.
Wrong! The norwegian courts ruled that copying DVD's for personal use (backup) is legal hence the DECSS software is legal since it is useful for this purpose.
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>Any lawyers that could clarify this? If it is still infringement if someone reverse engineers
>it and comes up with a similar or an exact copy of a patent?
IANAL: But it is my understanding that a patent basicly protects an implementation of an idea. So yes a reverse engineered solution would be considered infringement of a patent if the implementation is basicly identical.
Funny you should choose car theft as an analogy.
:-)
If someone steals a car, lets say a Ford. Then if it turns out there was a design fault on the car brakes and the thief runs over someone because of this. Then Ford would *NOT* get of the hook just because the car was stolen.
Patches to operating systems are more analogous to repairs of design faults than gas refill, oil changes or other regular services.
-- please ignore bad spelling/grammar, english is not exactly my first language
Europeans is capable of telling the difference between nudity and pornography. Janet showing her breast on TV was not pornography, it was just stupid.
>Not having had time to read and research your entire post...
>I would suggest you go back and do more research
hehe
Collateral damage, happens in every war ;-)
>So, in short, your statement, while superficially correct, is not relevant except to
>the few people who have *their own* servers.
Utter bullshit, most people does not forward their email through mydomain.com or any other "free forwarding providers" but uses the email address their ISP gave them directly.
If your email is "mission critical" then you should better make damn sure you have control over how this email is delivered and that your capable of receiving it. Dont blame AHBL (or your ISP) because you screwed up yourself using a stupid scheme to receive important email.
BTW: If a potential employer wants to send out interview invitations to job applicants, dont you think they would suspect they have a problem when half the invitiations bounces telling them they are blacklisted?
Basicly your trying to shift the problem from sender to receiver, it's not the receiver that's blacklisted and generally (assuming not using stupid redirect trick) would not have a problem.
>My mother doesn't know how to run her own email server in order to be able to specify her own
>email filtering policy, and neither should she have to.
Then she should take her money somewhere else, this is the only thing in the long run that would make ISP's police their own networks.
>I have no control over what blacklist policies are used on sites I want to send email to. If
>my range gets blacklisted because my ISP doesn't crack down on spammers, according to
>some self-appointed authority that "runs out of patience", what am I supposed to do if someone
>I want to email trusts this self-proclaimed authority? Find someone else to email?
Yes, perhaps you should find someone else to email. You might not like that someone you want to email does not want to receive your communication. But it is their god damn right to do so (their line, their server, their money), as I said earlier: It is not AHBL that blocks email, they only provide the list to those who whishes to do the blocking.
>I'll support you the day I stop losing legitimate emails as a result of your actions
Then stop using the AHBL blacklisting service.
You really have no idea how smtp and spam blacklist's work at all do you?
AHBL does not block a single email them self, in fact they do not have that kind of power, they only provides email administrators with an easy way to block IP's or IP ranges with known spammers.
If someone running an email server then choose to use the AHBL to block all email's from those IP's, then that is their rights to do so, no one have the right to force them to accept email to their own servers.
If you do not support this or can not accept such a policy, then your free to move your business to another email server that does not use AHBL or you might even set up your own email server accepting all email and spam alike.
>The difference is that with my idea, all computers are blacklisted by default; only those servers who maintain a billing account with the receiving ISP are allowed to send mail to them
Do you have any idea how many ISPs, domains and email servers there exists in the world?
This is excactly the way X.400 mail worked and the reason why it did not (and never could have) scale up to the hundreds of millions users Internet email have.
>You probably have the entire server/desktop team working on the updated anti-virus software and how to deploy it.
Oh come on now! Windoze have been swamped with these viruses for years now, if you administrate any network with more than just a few windows boxes and still after all these years have to take the round on every one of them to install virus updates, patches etc then you really should start looking for a new job!
>While I agree with you that management can and does make some horrible decisions that kill
l
>people; looking at the site of the foam impact and seeing a hole would have ment that the
>astronauts could choose to die in space or coming back to earth, not that they could have survived.
You should read the official report, it's written in a very accessible language and does not agree with the "no rescue possible theory":
http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/home/CAIB_Vol1.htm
>You and I both know that "DVD Jon" was perfectly able to view his DVD under the spacifics of the agreement he agreed to when he purchased the DVD
Well in fact the court actually equalled these kind of "agreements" with private law addendums, something they do not look kindly upon.
In short the court ruled that if you buy a DVD then you own that specific DVD-disc and can use whatever means you damn well please to view the content.
Of course this was a norwegian court, YMMV
>and got him even free a legal team paid by EFF.
Strange then that Jon was defended by a publicly paid lawyer.
Of course the rest of your accusations may be true for all I know.
>I think it's common sense that if you're a defendant and found not guilty that you shouldn't have to pay. Frankly, I'm surprised
>something like this doesn't exist already. Perhaps if the plaintiff had to pay ALL court costs if he/she lost there would be fewer
>nonsensical lawsuits.
It already does exist, legal representation is covered by the norwegian government in all criminal cases (and some civil cases too if your financial status is below a certain level) and it does not matter if you win or lose if it is a criminal case, legal representation is free anyway. In civil cases the looser usually have but not always to pay the other parts legal costs, the court can make the loser pay some or all of the winners costs depending on what the judge thinks is fair.
Also the public defenders are not second rates employed by the government but private lawyers paid by an hourerly rate which is in fact quite high. If you dont like the lawyer that get apointed to you, then you can always choose another one yourself. Most will happily accept the public rates since its higher than many lawyers would be able to claim at the free market anyway. Of course this means we (norwegians) get both good legal representation, and some of the worlds highest taxes to pay for it all...
Jon is not countersuing to get back legal costs, he simply wants some compensation for what he has been going through the last few years.
>England wants to knight him. Europe wants to hate him. Strange.
:-)
Not at all, I think it sums up the current situation in Europe quite well.
>So being, pure evil isn't enough?
You should read more history. Most of nobility is pure evil.
who got it from Xerox
I take it this is not transferable to politics?
;-) Because all they do in the media is throw shit at each other.
At least here in Norway that would mean they are all loosing
>Better comparison would have been a fully loaded Z900 and equivalent number of CPUs in Wintel servers.
I think a better comparison would have been Windows and Linux running web server on excactly the same hardware. But of course that might not have given Microsoft the results they wanted.
Why do you think they bothered with the Z900 when Linux is capable on running just fine on the 2CPU Xeon server?
The testing they did in that particular benchmark probably tells more about the cost/performance difference between mainframes and intel servers and have nothing at all to do with Windows/Linux.
Depends on how he actually did it.
If all he did was point his browser at itunes.com and buy the song using his own credit card, then the norwegian courts would not give a rat's ass about Apple really not wanting to sell it to him.
Same thing goes if he bought it while actually beeing in USA (vacation or something).
"he just barely got away with the DeCSS thing."
Wrong!
He did not "just barely got away with it", in fact the courts told the prosecution that what they claim he did - is in fact perfectly legal. That does not sound like "just barely" in my ears.
Okokrim (the norwegian crime unit that investigates these kind of things) would have to be pretty thick to arrest him for a similar case when they just lost the previous case in two different courts.
Of course soon Norway and the rest of europe will ratify the new european DMCA equivalent and then this will in fact be illegal, but this has not happened yet so Jon is perfectly safe for now.
>Norway sure sounds like a nice place. If only it were real... Well, our taxes are very real ;-)
>If any prescedent was set, it is presumably that
>writing and distributing software to bypass copy
>protections are legal in Norway. This would put
>Norway smack dab where the United States was
>legally before the advent of the DMCA. It's
>legal to write and distribute the tools, but the
>actual act of copying DVDs is still copyright
>infringement.
Wrong! The norwegian courts ruled that copying DVD's for personal use (backup) is legal hence the DECSS software is legal since it is useful for this purpose.
If you had seen the Okokrims track record in getting convictions in court, then you would not be suprised that someone doubts their competence.
I think you are a bit confused with the difference between QT/Trolltech and KDE
'Openly available' != 'turn over to the University of Muenster'
Perhaps not, but I dont think that license was very 'Open Source' anyway. It is however very much 'free beer'.