I don't "bank" with any banks... I bank with a credit union, for that express reason. How about you?
There are people who refuse to pay a portion of their taxes because it goes to war funds, and they think that's murder, and is against their deeply held religious beliefs. These actual real Christians are called Quakers, and no one pays attention to them, which is a shame. I also know a guy that hates what the US government does, so he purposely doesn't make any money so he doesn't have to pay taxes. He's a neat guy..... but these are anecdotes, not the average.
People who don't want to pay taxes, who rail against government, usually take for granted all that they get from living in a civil society. You drove to work on public roads. Your kids go to public school, your electricity works, your sewer works, your water flows when you turn the tap on. You are protected by police and fire departments. The businesses around you couldn't operate without courts and uniform laws. If you want an example of small government and freedom, go see Somolia. See how well that turns out.... They're super free to do whatever the local warlord tells them to do.
The free market is imaginary. Show me one. Anywhere on earth. Anywhere. Find me a free market, a market unfiddled by a large organization (government or private, doesn't matter).
The free market is like a frictionless wheel. It's useful to explain some concepts, but it's NOT REAL.
No, the government cannot come bulldoze your house on a whim. Calm down. It COULD use emminent domain, possibly... But then, the bank could decide to mess up some paperwork and forclose on your house despite your ability to pay. Frankly, both of these have happened. They're also RARE AS SHIT and cause a shit storm in the news when they DO happen.
Power is always going to exist. I can run a campaign against my government. I can do lots of things to stop my governemnt. I can't do shit against a bank except ask politely.....
And Seriously? The US Armed forces? Stop hyperbolizing... Both the bank and the governemnt will just call the cops. You're not cool enough to call in the military.
1. Data Adjustments. Look at your own link. Look at the graphs. If NOAA is adjusting a data point DOWNWARD by.13degrees Fahrenheit... I... This does not point to massive falsification. You often have to adjust data due to instrument drift. One point does not make a trend. Neither does two, not in that many data points. History is NOT constantly being revised....
2. I really don't care about your last 18 year thing. Lots of data sets show a flat in the last decade (within a HUGE upwards trend over the last 100ish years). You can't cherry pick a decade within a century and call it the norm.
3. I'll look at this. He seems to be published, and have some decent scientific chops. Alas, some of the first google hits on him come up with how he's... wrong. http://www.skepticalscience.co..., http://www.skepticalscience.co..., and it even looks like the site you linked to had some questions about his predictions... http://wattsupwiththat.com/201... At a cursory glance, it looks like he's working qualitatively instead of quantitatively, and it looks like he's pretty much just cutting and pasting old data into new data and calling it a prediction... ? So, basically, No, he's not more accurate. He's wrong. He's also a geologist, which is like asking my electrician to fix my plumbing.... Anyway.
You're wrong. It took me 5 minutes to look at your data and find it to be, not just holey, but flat out wrong.
I'm a liberal. I think maybe you should stop listening to what The Right are telling you I think. Perhaps you should listen to what I actually think....
Yeah. Relativity is just a Theory guys.... There's still debate! I know this guy, who knows a guy, who totally says it's not legit. Why haven't we heard from him! There's a conspiracy! Just because he's not a fancy "scientist". Because he's not an "expert" in their Ivory Tower. We should teach the controversy man.....
Science grows. We continue to discover new principles about the way the universe works, and new nuances every day.... but yes, some science is settled. We can predict what happens when we put two chemicals together. We can predict what will happen if we put two bodies next to each other in a frictionless environment. We know how a LOT of things work, and just because we're still discovering how things work, doesn't mean that many basic principles are not agreed on.
There IS no debate. No one is name calling, but I can start if you'd like. Please show me these faked studies. Please show me this manipulated data. Please. Where is it?
There are links in THIS discussion where you can go play with the raw data sets.... Perhaps you should?
Your definition of No Problem and my definition of No Problem are very different. We've had the Handord nuclear site out here for while and it has been a huge headache. A very EXPENSIVE headache.
I go up on my roof and clean off the panels twice a year with the hose. What's the problem again? Space? On my ROOF? Cleaning? With the HOSE?
Every system needs maintenance. Hosing down solar panels is probably a LOT easier than shipping off nuclear waste or doing the maintenance on the scrubbers for a coal power plant.
For anyone who would like to see an ACTUAL progressive utopia, written by a dirty hippy, take a look at the book Ecotopia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia). I'll say that it bears a striking resemblance to a libertarian ideal, but then, we have a lot in common. Please note that the book was written a while ago. Some of the tech presented in the book is a bit silly from today's standards, but oh well. It's still an awesome book, and I'd live there in a heartbeat.
As for Smitty's little corporate dependency progressive utopia dig? Whatever man. You and I both know that's so backwards as to be hilariously ludicrous.
You say that like it's true. You could go to that word for trees site listed and play with the raw data yourself. You can play with several statistical tools to smooth out the data. You could look yourself... Or, you know, continue in your beliefes despite the evidence presented.... If you don't trust that site, the data is on Wolfram Alpha, or lots of other sites. RAW data, not put through any statistical tools...
You've never TOUCHED the data, or even LOOKED at any of the models you're griping about. I have. They're really not that far off, especially for something as complex as our global climate. There are a LOT of things to take account of. Can they predict tomorrow's weather? No! That's not what they're for. For predicting a global temperature inside a time range for which we have reliable data to check their accuracy, then yeah, they're pretty alright.
That's a neat little tool, but... I'm sorry, we ARE warming. Ah, yes, technically you said we haven't been warming for the last 18 years. That's wrong too, but I see how you might have thought that, sort of, if you look at the RIGHT data sets presented and squint a little bit... the last decade looks flat. You know, just ignore the obvious updward trend that seems to start shortly after the industrial revolution and really takes off after we invented the means to fixate nitrogen and started fertilizing crops (and hence having lots more babies).
Try using the linear tool presented on your own 18 year span... on multiple data sets.
I'll take a government that I can vote in or out over a corp that I can't, and often HAVE to do business with because it's a monopoly.:D
OR! Maybe it's not that black and white, and we need a decent balance. Oh, sorry, I'm off the talking points. Still, I don't think progressives are off to say that corporate power has grown tremendously in the last few decades and they need to be reigned in a bit. No one is saying to get rid of corps. Hell, I USE an LLC. The benefits are obvious. It's also obvious that our representatives don't represent us, they represent their donors. We need to reclaim our government from moneyed influence.
We try posting rationally, but get disgusted by the ugly comments. Then we post emotionally. We're human.
I don't know if I'm a social justice warrior, although I know you meant that facetiously, but it's really disheartening to see people act so callously toward other people that are at a disadvantage. Help a brother or sister out, instead of slapping them down or dismissing their struggle.
I hope I didn't come across smug. I started reading the comments, and after the tenth little jibe I got kind of pissed and disgusted... and posted emotionally.:D
The world could be such a nice place if people didn't treat each other like garbage... Helping out women and minorities is not a bad thing, and no threat to anyone. It enriches us all.
There's a lot of ugly little comments here from ugly little Assholes. Naturally, most of them are anonymous. Cowards....
Reading the replies here should be enough proof that there IS a gender and race issue in tech. Reading the petty little comments in here should be proof enough that we need more women and minorities in tech, just so these petty little !@#$s can get some exposure and empathy to real people....
I would say we have a completely manipulated market. The simplest of goods has many many invisible little hands tugging at it. Take corn flakes: corn subsidies, advertising, trademark law, FDA labeling regulations, they way they bill it as a health food by putting athletes on the cover even though it's as far from a health food as you can get, farming regulations, worker regulations, etc etc etc.
Every little good in our economy is touched, pushed, and prodded by companies and governments in an attempt to maximized profit and ensure safety, which are often at odds with each other... Our markets are manipulated by advertising, trade regulations, etc forever.
So much bullshit lawyerism. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Racism is entirely based on intent, and that's hard to define or pin down.
It's really disheartening to see all the assholes here trying to define it so they're not the racist assholes that they are. Yeah Yeah, Political Correctness is bad...
If I call my uncle a redneck, that's an in joke, and it's OK. If some black dude says "what up nigga!?" to his buddy, that's in in joke, and it's OK. If I said that to him, or he call me a redneck.... we look at intent. Was it meant to degrade? Then it's racism. And yes, it's racism if some black dude calls me a redneck with intent to belittle me. It's wrong, no matter who does it.
Yeah, yeah, a couple of stories about overly sensitive people don't equal the whole trend. That's just a Logical Fallacy: Anecdotal. I maintain, it's not up to the racist bastard to determine what counts as racism. It's up to the victim. One of the two has to decide, and it sure as hell shouldn't be the racist bastard...
I really shouldn't have to explain this shit to people.... Be nice to each other. Any less and you're a dick. It's that simple.
You're actually going to say that gas is... Dude. Everyone and their aunt Berthilda has their grubby little hands in the gas market! It's the most Un Free Market on the planet! The supply is tinkered with by governments and companies. The refining is tinkered with by governments and companies. The distribution is tinkered with by governments and companies. The prices are tinkered with by governments and companies.... I just... wow. How'd you even think that?
I didn't say economics was useless. I DID say that there's no such thing as a free market. It's an example used to explain concepts... much like an imaginary perfect spehere with no friction. In No Way did I say economics was useless. You got that completely backwards....
Everyone's arguing about this or that net neutrality opinion... They're missing the big point. The internet is a miracle, and we shouldn't fuck it up.
I didn't have the internet when I grew up. When I wanted to know something, I had to go to the library and read for hours. When I wanted to communicate with someone, I had to write a letter and wait weeks. When I wanted to shop remotely, I had to get a catalog, fill out a form, send a check, and wait 4-6 weeks for delivery...
The idea of instantaneous (or near enough) access to all the knowledge and culture of humanity was a science fiction pipe dream that would only come in a fantastic future. We don't have flying cars, but we DO have access to all the knowledge and culture of humanity. That's AMAZING. That's a miracle.
We finally invented the future. It's here. We have an amazing tool. Now some assholes want to gate it off and double dip, to charge you more than they should, and to charge the giver of knowledge or culture more to be seen, even though we're both already paying for connection.
This is outrageous. This is why we need net neutrality. Real net neutrality. The pipes should not be allowed to dictate WHO gets to play in the bright future.
I love the Free Market crowd. I usually just challenge them to show me a free market, one that isn't tinkered with by a large organization (government or private) anywhere in the world.... I'll wait.
Free Markets are a useful tool to explain some economics concepts, but do not exist in real life.
Perhaps if the restaurant charges you for the hamburger, and then turns around and ALSO tells the farmer that he'd better pay up or they won't serve his beef to the customers, while the restaurant is starting a beef farm.
Ok, ignoring all the armchair generals who are saying How It Should Be...
This is a good thing. It's not the RIGHT thing. Ahem. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" Frankly, warrantless wiretapping IS illegal, per the US Constitution.
I don't blame the government. I blame us. There's less than 50% voter turnout. People ramble about the ammo box, but we haven't even TRIED the ballot box yet, and apparently we can't be bothered to. This is OUR fault.
That the House of Reps actually did this is an amazing step in the right direction. Everyone whines that it's not enough, but you NEVER get what you want in one go. It's always a slow series of steps. It's a continual fight.
Anyway, just a note... Dems: 158 yes, 29 no. Repubs: 135 yes, 94 no. Many more Dems voted for this. Think on that next time someone (possibly you) trots out how much Dems love big government and spending, and hate freedom. Sigh... The really sad thing is that there are no Independant votes on this, because there are no Independant reps, because you bastards can't be bothered to vote.:(
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I don't "bank" with any banks... I bank with a credit union, for that express reason. How about you?
There are people who refuse to pay a portion of their taxes because it goes to war funds, and they think that's murder, and is against their deeply held religious beliefs. These actual real Christians are called Quakers, and no one pays attention to them, which is a shame. I also know a guy that hates what the US government does, so he purposely doesn't make any money so he doesn't have to pay taxes. He's a neat guy..... but these are anecdotes, not the average.
People who don't want to pay taxes, who rail against government, usually take for granted all that they get from living in a civil society. You drove to work on public roads. Your kids go to public school, your electricity works, your sewer works, your water flows when you turn the tap on. You are protected by police and fire departments. The businesses around you couldn't operate without courts and uniform laws. If you want an example of small government and freedom, go see Somolia. See how well that turns out.... They're super free to do whatever the local warlord tells them to do.
The free market is imaginary. Show me one. Anywhere on earth. Anywhere. Find me a free market, a market unfiddled by a large organization (government or private, doesn't matter).
The free market is like a frictionless wheel. It's useful to explain some concepts, but it's NOT REAL.
No, the government cannot come bulldoze your house on a whim. Calm down. It COULD use emminent domain, possibly... But then, the bank could decide to mess up some paperwork and forclose on your house despite your ability to pay. Frankly, both of these have happened. They're also RARE AS SHIT and cause a shit storm in the news when they DO happen.
Power is always going to exist. I can run a campaign against my government. I can do lots of things to stop my governemnt. I can't do shit against a bank except ask politely.....
And Seriously? The US Armed forces? Stop hyperbolizing... Both the bank and the governemnt will just call the cops. You're not cool enough to call in the military.
Ahem.
1. What is up with all y'all and "socialism"? No one's asking for socialism. No one's handing out socialism. There's no F'in socialism! !@#$
2. We're a mixed economy. Seriously. Everyone needs to look these terms up in a dictionary. Everyone. Go look up Socialism and Mixed Economy.
1. Data Adjustments. Look at your own link. Look at the graphs. If NOAA is adjusting a data point DOWNWARD by .13degrees Fahrenheit... I... This does not point to massive falsification. You often have to adjust data due to instrument drift. One point does not make a trend. Neither does two, not in that many data points. History is NOT constantly being revised....
2. I really don't care about your last 18 year thing. Lots of data sets show a flat in the last decade (within a HUGE upwards trend over the last 100ish years). You can't cherry pick a decade within a century and call it the norm.
3. I'll look at this. He seems to be published, and have some decent scientific chops. Alas, some of the first google hits on him come up with how he's ... wrong. http://www.skepticalscience.co..., http://www.skepticalscience.co..., and it even looks like the site you linked to had some questions about his predictions... http://wattsupwiththat.com/201... At a cursory glance, it looks like he's working qualitatively instead of quantitatively, and it looks like he's pretty much just cutting and pasting old data into new data and calling it a prediction... ? So, basically, No, he's not more accurate. He's wrong. He's also a geologist, which is like asking my electrician to fix my plumbing.... Anyway.
You're wrong. It took me 5 minutes to look at your data and find it to be, not just holey, but flat out wrong.
I'm a liberal. I think maybe you should stop listening to what The Right are telling you I think. Perhaps you should listen to what I actually think....
Yeah. Relativity is just a Theory guys.... There's still debate! I know this guy, who knows a guy, who totally says it's not legit. Why haven't we heard from him! There's a conspiracy! Just because he's not a fancy "scientist". Because he's not an "expert" in their Ivory Tower. We should teach the controversy man.....
Science grows. We continue to discover new principles about the way the universe works, and new nuances every day.... but yes, some science is settled. We can predict what happens when we put two chemicals together. We can predict what will happen if we put two bodies next to each other in a frictionless environment. We know how a LOT of things work, and just because we're still discovering how things work, doesn't mean that many basic principles are not agreed on.
There IS no debate. No one is name calling, but I can start if you'd like. Please show me these faked studies. Please show me this manipulated data. Please. Where is it?
There are links in THIS discussion where you can go play with the raw data sets.... Perhaps you should?
Your definition of No Problem and my definition of No Problem are very different. We've had the Handord nuclear site out here for while and it has been a huge headache. A very EXPENSIVE headache.
I go up on my roof and clean off the panels twice a year with the hose. What's the problem again? Space? On my ROOF? Cleaning? With the HOSE?
Every system needs maintenance. Hosing down solar panels is probably a LOT easier than shipping off nuclear waste or doing the maintenance on the scrubbers for a coal power plant.
For anyone who would like to see an ACTUAL progressive utopia, written by a dirty hippy, take a look at the book Ecotopia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia). I'll say that it bears a striking resemblance to a libertarian ideal, but then, we have a lot in common. Please note that the book was written a while ago. Some of the tech presented in the book is a bit silly from today's standards, but oh well. It's still an awesome book, and I'd live there in a heartbeat.
As for Smitty's little corporate dependency progressive utopia dig? Whatever man. You and I both know that's so backwards as to be hilariously ludicrous.
You say that like it's true. You could go to that word for trees site listed and play with the raw data yourself. You can play with several statistical tools to smooth out the data. You could look yourself... Or, you know, continue in your beliefes despite the evidence presented.... If you don't trust that site, the data is on Wolfram Alpha, or lots of other sites. RAW data, not put through any statistical tools...
You've never TOUCHED the data, or even LOOKED at any of the models you're griping about. I have. They're really not that far off, especially for something as complex as our global climate. There are a LOT of things to take account of. Can they predict tomorrow's weather? No! That's not what they're for. For predicting a global temperature inside a time range for which we have reliable data to check their accuracy, then yeah, they're pretty alright.
Ass.
Your own citation says you're wrong. That's gotta hurt....
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:1600/to:1014
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1600/to:10142
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:1600/to:2014/trend
That's a neat little tool, but... I'm sorry, we ARE warming. Ah, yes, technically you said we haven't been warming for the last 18 years. That's wrong too, but I see how you might have thought that, sort of, if you look at the RIGHT data sets presented and squint a little bit... the last decade looks flat. You know, just ignore the obvious updward trend that seems to start shortly after the industrial revolution and really takes off after we invented the means to fixate nitrogen and started fertilizing crops (and hence having lots more babies).
Try using the linear tool presented on your own 18 year span... on multiple data sets.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/wti/from:2000/to:2014/trend
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:2000/to:2014/trend
Weird, those are going up too. That means you're so wrong, as to be wrongy wrong. Massively wrongy wrong, as per YOUR OWN CITATION.
I'll take a government that I can vote in or out over a corp that I can't, and often HAVE to do business with because it's a monopoly. :D
OR! Maybe it's not that black and white, and we need a decent balance. Oh, sorry, I'm off the talking points. Still, I don't think progressives are off to say that corporate power has grown tremendously in the last few decades and they need to be reigned in a bit. No one is saying to get rid of corps. Hell, I USE an LLC. The benefits are obvious. It's also obvious that our representatives don't represent us, they represent their donors. We need to reclaim our government from moneyed influence.
We try posting rationally, but get disgusted by the ugly comments. Then we post emotionally. We're human.
I don't know if I'm a social justice warrior, although I know you meant that facetiously, but it's really disheartening to see people act so callously toward other people that are at a disadvantage. Help a brother or sister out, instead of slapping them down or dismissing their struggle.
You make some excellent points.
I hope I didn't come across smug. I started reading the comments, and after the tenth little jibe I got kind of pissed and disgusted... and posted emotionally. :D
The world could be such a nice place if people didn't treat each other like garbage... Helping out women and minorities is not a bad thing, and no threat to anyone. It enriches us all.
There's a lot of ugly little comments here from ugly little Assholes. Naturally, most of them are anonymous. Cowards....
Reading the replies here should be enough proof that there IS a gender and race issue in tech. Reading the petty little comments in here should be proof enough that we need more women and minorities in tech, just so these petty little !@#$s can get some exposure and empathy to real people....
Some of you disgust me quite a bit.
Every little good in our economy is touched, pushed, and prodded by companies and governments in an attempt to maximized profit and ensure safety, which are often at odds with each other... Our markets are manipulated by advertising, trade regulations, etc forever.
There are NO free markets on this planet.
I know what a redneck is. I grew up on a tractor.
So much bullshit lawyerism. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Racism is entirely based on intent, and that's hard to define or pin down.
It's really disheartening to see all the assholes here trying to define it so they're not the racist assholes that they are. Yeah Yeah, Political Correctness is bad...
If I call my uncle a redneck, that's an in joke, and it's OK. If some black dude says "what up nigga!?" to his buddy, that's in in joke, and it's OK. If I said that to him, or he call me a redneck.... we look at intent. Was it meant to degrade? Then it's racism. And yes, it's racism if some black dude calls me a redneck with intent to belittle me. It's wrong, no matter who does it.
Yeah, yeah, a couple of stories about overly sensitive people don't equal the whole trend. That's just a Logical Fallacy: Anecdotal. I maintain, it's not up to the racist bastard to determine what counts as racism. It's up to the victim. One of the two has to decide, and it sure as hell shouldn't be the racist bastard...
I really shouldn't have to explain this shit to people.... Be nice to each other. Any less and you're a dick. It's that simple.
You're actually going to say that gas is ... Dude. Everyone and their aunt Berthilda has their grubby little hands in the gas market! It's the most Un Free Market on the planet! The supply is tinkered with by governments and companies. The refining is tinkered with by governments and companies. The distribution is tinkered with by governments and companies. The prices are tinkered with by governments and companies. ... I just... wow. How'd you even think that?
I didn't say economics was useless. I DID say that there's no such thing as a free market. It's an example used to explain concepts... much like an imaginary perfect spehere with no friction. In No Way did I say economics was useless. You got that completely backwards....
that's funny, 'cause I own a gun... weird. It's almost like the second amendment is fine and dandy, and you're just whining....
Everyone's arguing about this or that net neutrality opinion... They're missing the big point. The internet is a miracle, and we shouldn't fuck it up.
I didn't have the internet when I grew up. When I wanted to know something, I had to go to the library and read for hours. When I wanted to communicate with someone, I had to write a letter and wait weeks. When I wanted to shop remotely, I had to get a catalog, fill out a form, send a check, and wait 4-6 weeks for delivery...
The idea of instantaneous (or near enough) access to all the knowledge and culture of humanity was a science fiction pipe dream that would only come in a fantastic future. We don't have flying cars, but we DO have access to all the knowledge and culture of humanity. That's AMAZING. That's a miracle.
We finally invented the future. It's here. We have an amazing tool. Now some assholes want to gate it off and double dip, to charge you more than they should, and to charge the giver of knowledge or culture more to be seen, even though we're both already paying for connection.
This is outrageous. This is why we need net neutrality. Real net neutrality. The pipes should not be allowed to dictate WHO gets to play in the bright future.
I love the Free Market crowd. I usually just challenge them to show me a free market, one that isn't tinkered with by a large organization (government or private) anywhere in the world.... I'll wait.
Free Markets are a useful tool to explain some economics concepts, but do not exist in real life.
Perhaps if the restaurant charges you for the hamburger, and then turns around and ALSO tells the farmer that he'd better pay up or they won't serve his beef to the customers, while the restaurant is starting a beef farm.
Ok, ignoring all the armchair generals who are saying How It Should Be...
This is a good thing. It's not the RIGHT thing. Ahem. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" Frankly, warrantless wiretapping IS illegal, per the US Constitution.
I don't blame the government. I blame us. There's less than 50% voter turnout. People ramble about the ammo box, but we haven't even TRIED the ballot box yet, and apparently we can't be bothered to. This is OUR fault.
That the House of Reps actually did this is an amazing step in the right direction. Everyone whines that it's not enough, but you NEVER get what you want in one go. It's always a slow series of steps. It's a continual fight.
Anyway, just a note... Dems: 158 yes, 29 no. Repubs: 135 yes, 94 no. Many more Dems voted for this. Think on that next time someone (possibly you) trots out how much Dems love big government and spending, and hate freedom. Sigh... The really sad thing is that there are no Independant votes on this, because there are no Independant reps, because you bastards can't be bothered to vote. :(