Well, it all depends on what you need to connect. If you only need to connect one insturment the palm might do, Although the screen might be a little constricting. The company I work for makes some handheld, ruggedized, handheld PC class machines. These were ment mostly for a factory/warehouse environment, but might be suitable for you. In particular I might recommend our 6110 model. Which has a 1/4 VGA screen and a 486 processor. It comes with a MS OS installed, but some of the guys here in the software development area have gotten them to run Linux (Slack 6 I think). It has several serial ports avaliable, both internal and external, and 2 free PCMCIA slots. _____________
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBOgxeoLfXGCgiKZQGEQKVHwCeKFq+fp9CmTNOQp0o UGwrjQ21x6gAmwUB
lw5HmpKwc2AJDqzDxJtacLji
=q06U
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Trying that again. Gotta remember, Preview is the one on the right.
If I'm really in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (42N 42W--Cedar Rapids is the closest city I could find to the Magical Location of Life, the Universe and Everything)Sorry buddy, Cedar Rapids, IA is not at 42N 42W. That location is in the middle of the North Atlantic. I will however verify my location (Cedar Rapids, IA) from the output of my Magellan 310 Handheld GPS receiver:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
41 58 34N
91 57 12W
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use
iQA/AwUBOgxdnbfXGCgiKZQGEQL5PgCg3hQJ0M6tred1KlkV86 IJqcQzXLIAoKhy
2PP5lm6s9Mm/iBeqv07cEYYv
=LCrB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
If you'd like to verify that signature, my public key is posted on my user page here on/. and also on the common key servers. I can't however provide any was for you to actually verify that I correctly keyed in the location displayed on my GPS receiver, nor do you have any way of verifying that the position it reported was accurate. _____________
So the next step is that I should be able to sue the public libraries to see who has been reading which books.
No, this is a completely different issue. Since people keep insisting on using library records as an example, I'll at least give a correct example. This ruling is equivalent to requiring a library to make public a list of how many times each book has been checked out. It does NOT require, or even permit telling who checked out what books.
As a matter of course libraries do maintain and use a list of which books have and have not been checked out. This is part of the information they use when deciding what new books to buy ("Oh, I see that the books in our computer programming get checked out frequently. We should buy more of those.") and which books to sell at their used book sales ("Hrm. The 1984 edition of the Kelly Blue Book hasn't been checked out for 15 years. We should sell it.").
It is not only the right but also the responsibility of the citizens to ensure that they have proper access to public records. The citizens also have the right and responsibility to ensure that equipment purchased with public funds is being used for its proper purpose. One way of doing this is to enumerate the webpages that are accessed by computers/internet connections purchased at considerable expense with public funds. _____________
If I remember correctly, it do NOT allow special chars in the domainnames.
Damn you're quick. Of course the whole point of this is to provide a work-around to that problem. All it does is make an ASCII representation of a different character set. These representations are flagged by having the hostname start with bq-. So if you run across a hostname that looks like bq-safjdlfaqwue72819.bq-hewaguifuifdajhks.co.jp you'll know that the hostname probably makes good sense to anyone who has a Japaneese web browser. If you are in the habit of reading such pages you'll get the appropriate plugin. If you don't have the plugin, you probably couldn't read the content anyway and believe you me, there is a LOT of content on the web that's written in a language you can't read. (I'm not saying that you're stupid or anything, I'm just making the bet that there isn't anyone here who knows every language in which material has been posted to the internet, this includes Klingon) _____________
Re:Just check the House of Representatives
on
eLection '04
·
· Score: 2
The significant difference is that the Hours of Representatives uses a roll call vote, whereas the public elections are cast by anonymous ballot. When the house is passing something that they want to be able to deny voting for later (e.g. large pay raises) they still do it by voice vote.
The significant problem in doing a public electronic vote is to find a way to gaurentee that each person can vote no more than once while at the same time making sure that the vote is really anonymous. _____________
Borrowing from the poster in one of yesterday's articles who posted a shell script to parse cnn.com and tell how many more votes Bush had than Gore in Florida:
I present to you the web based Bush-o-meter!! It can be found at http://www.cs.luther.edu/~bumpusad/bush/
For those who are interested here's the source:
Well, anyway, my point is, that TiVo may not like this either, since, you're stealing a huge source of revenue from them.
Can you explain to me how this eliminates any revenue? I don't have a TiVo so I don't know for sure, but there has to be some way that it does authentication when doing a dial-in. Really I don't see any difference between modem + telephone # and eth0 + IP address. Once a PPP or other network connection with their server is established the transaction will proceed in exactly the same way. You're still going to have to pay if you want access to their server. _____________
Re:Can't press multiple keys at once?
on
Keyless Keyboard
·
· Score: 4
Not only does it seem that you wouldn't be able to press multiple keys at once, but with 2 different devices each capable of 8 different positions it follows that you would have no more than 64 character choices. This makes it kind of a tight squeeze, but almost sufficient for typing most things in English.
26 lowercase letters
26 uppercase letters
10 digits
1 period
1 question mark
----------------
64 total characters
Of course, it's missing a comma and apostrophe which I use a pretty fair amount. Maybe you could get another 8 from each hand by using the center position. This would give you a total of 80, giving room for a few more of the common punctuation marks.
Contrast that with the generic Dell keyboard I have in front of me now. 104 keys total. Subtract 9 meta keys that don't do anything on their own. That's 96 unmodified. I now have more than I could figure for the dome thing. By using the 5 unique meta keys (Control, Alt, Shift, windows, menu) I come up with 30 different combinations in which I can press them down or not. Multiplying the remaining 96 keys by 30 I get 2880 possible key combinations. Now there's flexability. _____________
to get the repubs back for what they did to willie.
I mean really, that whole thing had nothing to do with the fact that good little Willie is a raging womanizer and lied about it in court. Nope, it was just a conspiracy by the Republicans. _____________
Both houses of Congress on the sidelines threatening to turn the match into a full-on bicameral brawl!
I'm not sure that Jesse would go for that. He's always been in favor of converting Minnesota to a unicameral. I think that it mostly that he figures he'll be able to cram crazy-ass shit through faster without 2 houses. Anyhow, I think that you better just invite the Senate. _____________
Just go ahead and explain why water freezes at 32 degrees and boils at 212, instead of 0 and 100.
All depends on who you are. Ask a chemist and they very well might tell you that water freezes at 273 and boils at 373. On an overall view difining 100 degrees between water freezing and boiling makes about as much sense as basing your thermometer on 100 degrees between a normal human body temperature and the approximate temperature where it would freeze solid.
All of our measurements are pretty arbitrary anyway. Yes it's a bit easier to convert between different units with the SI system, but in my everyday life I don't do all that much converting. However I do need to make eyeball judgements about how many units something is and it's a lot easier to do if I use the units I'm most familiar with. On a daily basis I use units like miles, feet, tablespoons, gallons, pounds and ounces (both kinds)I know about how big they are and that's all I care about. _____________
The Rules Have Changed...Get Paid to Surf the Web!
Shouldn't that be "The Rules Have Changed, now we pay less and make you earn more before we'll cut you a check for putting up with a program that crashes your already unstable windows box at least once an hour."?
Just my thoughts anyway. Damn I hate All Advantage. _____________
If we keep that up (i.e. voting for who'll cause the least damage), we'll eventually end up ruined
It's not really as bad as all that. Voting for who'll do the least damage isn't a bug it's a feature of our 2 party system. Unlike many other nations our elected officials have to build a coalition before the general election instead of afterwards. This is a feature! You at least know what comprimises have been made before you cast you ballot. The chance that we get with the two party system to actually vote for someone who may express our views more clearly comes in the primary/caucas/convention process not in November. At the primary it makes more sense to vote for people with different ideas, when you do that then your voice is heard and forwarded on to the party convention in the summer.
Is this process perfect? Hell no! Is it fair that Iowa always gets more say than other states? Hell no! Does this system need a little bit of reform? Shit yeah! Overall is it a workable system that needs a few tweaks? Yes. These are problems that can be dealt with by finding a new way to schedule the primaries.
It also helps this system when you have a real range of canidates. This year the Republicans had a really good spread of canidates and then through the primary/caucas/convention process worked out some comprimises and nominated the rather moderate George W. Bush. The Democrats however, had only two real canidates in the primaries. Both were fairly moderate career politician sorts. As a result the left wing of the party got kind of left out of the process and as a result we're seeing more division between the left and the moderate left than we are seeing between the right and the moderate right. This is why we are talking about Nader today and not about Pat Buchannan who is to the Republicans pretty much what Nader is to the Democrats. _____________
Sorry, about that. I should have stated that better. Let's try "Guiness is pressurized and dispensed in a manner different from most other beers. It is by far the most widely distributed example of this style, but it is far from being either unique in this process or the best example of a stout with a thick creamy head." Does this make my point clear to you? _____________
Also, Guinness is not carbonated, it is poured with nitrogen.
This is not strictly true. Guiness, like any beer dispensed through a stout tap, is dispensed with "beer gas" which is a 60/40 mix of N2 and CO2. Beer is always going to be somewhat carbonated, CO2 is a byproduct of the yeast that makes grain into beer. It is true that Guiness is carbonated differently than other beers, but it still isn't unique. _____________
Ok, firstoff Harps is nothing like a stout. But otherwise, there are shitloads of very fine stouts avaliable across the US. By and large I'd say that Guiness isn't even the best example of a stout that can be found in the US (importing tends to be hard on beer, buy american). Personally, I prefer a stout with a little more flavor than Guiness. Some of my favorite suggestions would be Red Hook Double Black Stout which is avaliable nationally, or Goose Island Oatmeal Stout again avaliable most places, or if you happen to be in the Midwest you might try one of the various beers from James Page in Minneapolis or one of the severalextremely good stouts at the Blue Cat Brew Pub in Moline, IL, or the Black Cobra Stout at the Cedar Brewing Company in Cedar Rapids, IA.
If you feel really brave and want to learn more about beer and get a much better feel for what good beer is really about I suggest brewing your own beer. The project will cost you about $100 to get started on, but then you'll be able to make some damn fine beer for a little over $10/case. I've found that some of the stuff I make is as good or better than imported beer that costs me $7 or more for a 6-pack.
If you don't feel that ambitious, go to any larger liquor store and have a look at their beer selection. Most likely you'll be able to find something brewed in your area of the country that hasn't suffered the abuse of being loaded onto a ship and sent across the Atlantic. It'll cost less and taste better.
Please note, I have no financial interest in any of the companies that I linked above. I just really like good beer and these are places that help me get it. Overall, there is a whole lot of really good beer in this country. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. _____________
Why do kamikaze pilots wear helmets? Would a wingless fly be called a walk? Answers, I need answers!
Kamikaze pilots wear helmets so that they don't bang their head on the canopy and become unconscious rendering them unable to fly their plane in such a manner as to impact upon a predetermined target.
Also, I wingless fly would be referred to in the scientific sense as a "creepy crawly thingie". I hope that I have been of assistance to you.:) _____________
Yea as long as you don't drive more than 150 feet from the source!
These products are usually intended for use with a CD or MP3 player mounted inside your car. If your car is in excess of 150' long and this becomes a problem, you probably need to use so much concentration while driving it that having musical entertainment isn't your biggest concern.:) My truck is only 17' long and some days I have a hard time parallel parking. I can't even imagine trying to drive in city traffic in a vehicle almost 10x that long. _____________
I don't think I've ever seen so many concepts incorrectly defined in such a short space before:
Ok, I'm left a little confused as to how you classify these kind of things then. Let's take something like Melissa or I Love You as an example:
All viruses (and worms) replicate Melissa and I Love You make copies of themselves (like a virus) and send them across a network (like a worm).
Worms are not viruses Well I'm a little confused here. My understanding of a worm is that it's simply a virus that uses a network as its primary means of propogation. I will however concede that a virus could be more strictly defined as only including those programs which embed themselves in other binary executables.
Torjans are executables, not documents Well, how then do you classify VB scripts then? They are pretty much like a document, being plaintext and all. They are even more like a document when they come embedded in a Word or Excel document.
Torjans are not viruses This is true, but the the difference is pretty subtle. OTOH, I'm not sure that you could always say that viruses are not trojans.
Torjans are not worms This is true, but the the difference is pretty subtle. OTOH, I'm not sure that you could always say that worms aren't trojans.
Trojans don't replicate No, but worms and viruses do. A trojan is just a means of social engineering, what the trojan does after being activated by the user may well take the form of viral or wormlike activity.
Overall I'd say that it's getting harder and harder to define the terms trojan, virus and worm. Their differences in meaning aren't all that great, especially in a time when nearly every computer was connected to a network. Now it's very possible for a cracker to draw on attributes of all three forms of malicious programs and produce something that's a little hard for computergeeks to accurately pidgeonhole, let alone expect some clueless reporter to be able to do accurately. _____________________
Speak for yourself. My service with @Home has been nearly flawless, except for a minor glitch on my end.
Do you use their POP3 and SMTP servers? Other than the mail service my experience with my cable modem has been quite good. Only 2 or 3 instances of outages lasting more than a few minutes in the last 4 months. The mailserver OTOH, is down at least once a week if not more often for hours at a time. My solution, pay someone else for mail service.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, it all depends on what you need to connect. If you only need to connect one insturment the palm might do, Although the screen might be a little constricting. The company I work for makes some handheld, ruggedized, handheld PC class machines. These were ment mostly for a factory/warehouse environment, but might be suitable for you. In particular I might recommend our 6110 model. Which has a 1/4 VGA screen and a 486 processor. It comes with a MS OS installed, but some of the guys here in the software development area have gotten them to run Linux (Slack 6 I think). It has several serial ports avaliable, both internal and external, and 2 free PCMCIA slots.
_____________
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
o UGwrjQ21x6gAmwUB
Hash: SHA1
41 58 34N 91 57 12W
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBOgxeoLfXGCgiKZQGEQKVHwCeKFq+fp9CmTNOQp0
lw5HmpKwc2AJDqzDxJtacLji
=q06U
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Trying that again. Gotta remember, Preview is the one on the right.
_____________
If you'd like to verify that signature, my public key is posted on my user page here on /. and also on the common key servers. I can't however provide any was for you to actually verify that I correctly keyed in the location displayed on my GPS receiver, nor do you have any way of verifying that the position it reported was accurate.
_____________
No, this is a completely different issue. Since people keep insisting on using library records as an example, I'll at least give a correct example. This ruling is equivalent to requiring a library to make public a list of how many times each book has been checked out. It does NOT require, or even permit telling who checked out what books.
As a matter of course libraries do maintain and use a list of which books have and have not been checked out. This is part of the information they use when deciding what new books to buy ("Oh, I see that the books in our computer programming get checked out frequently. We should buy more of those.") and which books to sell at their used book sales ("Hrm. The 1984 edition of the Kelly Blue Book hasn't been checked out for 15 years. We should sell it.").
It is not only the right but also the responsibility of the citizens to ensure that they have proper access to public records. The citizens also have the right and responsibility to ensure that equipment purchased with public funds is being used for its proper purpose. One way of doing this is to enumerate the webpages that are accessed by computers/internet connections purchased at considerable expense with public funds.
_____________
Damn you're quick. Of course the whole point of this is to provide a work-around to that problem. All it does is make an ASCII representation of a different character set. These representations are flagged by having the hostname start with bq-. So if you run across a hostname that looks like bq-safjdlfaqwue72819.bq-hewaguifuifdajhks.co.jp you'll know that the hostname probably makes good sense to anyone who has a Japaneese web browser. If you are in the habit of reading such pages you'll get the appropriate plugin. If you don't have the plugin, you probably couldn't read the content anyway and believe you me, there is a LOT of content on the web that's written in a language you can't read. (I'm not saying that you're stupid or anything, I'm just making the bet that there isn't anyone here who knows every language in which material has been posted to the internet, this includes Klingon)
_____________
The significant problem in doing a public electronic vote is to find a way to gaurentee that each person can vote no more than once while at the same time making sure that the vote is really anonymous.
_____________
Borrowing from the poster in one of yesterday's articles who posted a shell script to parse cnn.com and tell how many more votes Bush had than Gore in Florida:
./bush references the script posted yesterday.
I present to you the web based Bush-o-meter!! It can be found at http://www.cs.luther.edu/~bumpusad/bush/
For those who are interested here's the source:
#!/bin/bash
while true
do
echo "<html><head><meta HTTP-EQUIV=\"REFRESH\" content=\"60\"><title>The Bush-O-Meter</title></head>" > index.html
echo "<body bgcolor=\"#000000\" text=\"#FFFF00\">" >> index.html
echo "<center><h1>The Bush-O-Meter</h1><br><br>">>index.html
echo "<b>">>index.html
./bush >> index.html
./bush
echo "</html>" >> index.html
sleep 60
done
</tt><P>In here
_____________
Can you explain to me how this eliminates any revenue? I don't have a TiVo so I don't know for sure, but there has to be some way that it does authentication when doing a dial-in. Really I don't see any difference between modem + telephone # and eth0 + IP address. Once a PPP or other network connection with their server is established the transaction will proceed in exactly the same way. You're still going to have to pay if you want access to their server.
_____________
26 lowercase letters
26 uppercase letters
10 digits
1 period
1 question mark
----------------
64 total characters
Of course, it's missing a comma and apostrophe which I use a pretty fair amount. Maybe you could get another 8 from each hand by using the center position. This would give you a total of 80, giving room for a few more of the common punctuation marks.
Contrast that with the generic Dell keyboard I have in front of me now. 104 keys total. Subtract 9 meta keys that don't do anything on their own. That's 96 unmodified. I now have more than I could figure for the dome thing. By using the 5 unique meta keys (Control, Alt, Shift, windows, menu) I come up with 30 different combinations in which I can press them down or not. Multiplying the remaining 96 keys by 30 I get 2880 possible key combinations. Now there's flexability.
_____________
Did you mean to say:
1337 h4>0Rz 7rY1nG 2 5p1017 7h3 k3Rn31?
_____________
I mean really, that whole thing had nothing to do with the fact that good little Willie is a raging womanizer and lied about it in court. Nope, it was just a conspiracy by the Republicans.
_____________
I'm not sure that Jesse would go for that. He's always been in favor of converting Minnesota to a unicameral. I think that it mostly that he figures he'll be able to cram crazy-ass shit through faster without 2 houses. Anyhow, I think that you better just invite the Senate.
_____________
All depends on who you are. Ask a chemist and they very well might tell you that water freezes at 273 and boils at 373. On an overall view difining 100 degrees between water freezing and boiling makes about as much sense as basing your thermometer on 100 degrees between a normal human body temperature and the approximate temperature where it would freeze solid.
All of our measurements are pretty arbitrary anyway. Yes it's a bit easier to convert between different units with the SI system, but in my everyday life I don't do all that much converting. However I do need to make eyeball judgements about how many units something is and it's a lot easier to do if I use the units I'm most familiar with. On a daily basis I use units like miles, feet, tablespoons, gallons, pounds and ounces (both kinds)I know about how big they are and that's all I care about.
_____________
Shouldn't that be "The Rules Have Changed, now we pay less and make you earn more before we'll cut you a check for putting up with a program that crashes your already unstable windows box at least once an hour."?
Just my thoughts anyway. Damn I hate All Advantage.
_____________
FWIW the drunk driving thing is coming from congress not from Clinton.
_____________
Damnit, you're not an Engineer unless you operate a train!
_____________
It's not really as bad as all that. Voting for who'll do the least damage isn't a bug it's a feature of our 2 party system. Unlike many other nations our elected officials have to build a coalition before the general election instead of afterwards. This is a feature! You at least know what comprimises have been made before you cast you ballot. The chance that we get with the two party system to actually vote for someone who may express our views more clearly comes in the primary/caucas/convention process not in November. At the primary it makes more sense to vote for people with different ideas, when you do that then your voice is heard and forwarded on to the party convention in the summer.
Is this process perfect? Hell no! Is it fair that Iowa always gets more say than other states? Hell no! Does this system need a little bit of reform? Shit yeah! Overall is it a workable system that needs a few tweaks? Yes. These are problems that can be dealt with by finding a new way to schedule the primaries.
It also helps this system when you have a real range of canidates. This year the Republicans had a really good spread of canidates and then through the primary/caucas/convention process worked out some comprimises and nominated the rather moderate George W. Bush. The Democrats however, had only two real canidates in the primaries. Both were fairly moderate career politician sorts. As a result the left wing of the party got kind of left out of the process and as a result we're seeing more division between the left and the moderate left than we are seeing between the right and the moderate right. This is why we are talking about Nader today and not about Pat Buchannan who is to the Republicans pretty much what Nader is to the Democrats.
_____________
Sorry, about that. I should have stated that better. Let's try "Guiness is pressurized and dispensed in a manner different from most other beers. It is by far the most widely distributed example of this style, but it is far from being either unique in this process or the best example of a stout with a thick creamy head." Does this make my point clear to you?
_____________
This is not strictly true. Guiness, like any beer dispensed through a stout tap, is dispensed with "beer gas" which is a 60/40 mix of N2 and CO2. Beer is always going to be somewhat carbonated, CO2 is a byproduct of the yeast that makes grain into beer. It is true that Guiness is carbonated differently than other beers, but it still isn't unique.
_____________
If you feel really brave and want to learn more about beer and get a much better feel for what good beer is really about I suggest brewing your own beer. The project will cost you about $100 to get started on, but then you'll be able to make some damn fine beer for a little over $10/case. I've found that some of the stuff I make is as good or better than imported beer that costs me $7 or more for a 6-pack.
If you don't feel that ambitious, go to any larger liquor store and have a look at their beer selection. Most likely you'll be able to find something brewed in your area of the country that hasn't suffered the abuse of being loaded onto a ship and sent across the Atlantic. It'll cost less and taste better.
Please note, I have no financial interest in any of the companies that I linked above. I just really like good beer and these are places that help me get it. Overall, there is a whole lot of really good beer in this country. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.
_____________
Kamikaze pilots wear helmets so that they don't bang their head on the canopy and become unconscious rendering them unable to fly their plane in such a manner as to impact upon a predetermined target.
Also, I wingless fly would be referred to in the scientific sense as a "creepy crawly thingie". I hope that I have been of assistance to you. :)
_____________
And why would anyone ever need any more than 640KB of RAM?
_____________
These products are usually intended for use with a CD or MP3 player mounted inside your car. If your car is in excess of 150' long and this becomes a problem, you probably need to use so much concentration while driving it that having musical entertainment isn't your biggest concern. :) My truck is only 17' long and some days I have a hard time parallel parking. I can't even imagine trying to drive in city traffic in a vehicle almost 10x that long.
_____________
Ok, I'm left a little confused as to how you classify these kind of things then. Let's take something like Melissa or I Love You as an example:
- All viruses (and worms) replicate Melissa and I Love You make copies of themselves (like a virus) and send them across a network (like a worm).
- Worms are not viruses Well I'm a little confused here. My understanding of a worm is that it's simply a virus that uses a network as its primary means of propogation. I will however concede that a virus could be more strictly defined as only including those programs which embed themselves in other binary executables.
- Torjans are executables, not documents Well, how then do you classify VB scripts then? They are pretty much like a document, being plaintext and all. They are even more like a document when they come embedded in a Word or Excel document.
- Torjans are not viruses This is true, but the the difference is pretty subtle. OTOH, I'm not sure that you could always say that viruses are not trojans.
- Torjans are not worms This is true, but the the difference is pretty subtle. OTOH, I'm not sure that you could always say that worms aren't trojans.
- Trojans don't replicate No, but worms and viruses do. A trojan is just a means of social engineering, what the trojan does after being activated by the user may well take the form of viral or wormlike activity.
Overall I'd say that it's getting harder and harder to define the terms trojan, virus and worm. Their differences in meaning aren't all that great, especially in a time when nearly every computer was connected to a network. Now it's very possible for a cracker to draw on attributes of all three forms of malicious programs and produce something that's a little hard for computergeeks to accurately pidgeonhole, let alone expect some clueless reporter to be able to do accurately._____________________
Do you use their POP3 and SMTP servers? Other than the mail service my experience with my cable modem has been quite good. Only 2 or 3 instances of outages lasting more than a few minutes in the last 4 months. The mailserver OTOH, is down at least once a week if not more often for hours at a time. My solution, pay someone else for mail service.