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@Home Critic Silenced By @Home
Scareduck writes: "We've all heard much of @Home's lousy service. Ed Foster's column today in InfoWorld discusses a fellow who got his @Home e-mail account pulled for posting @Home internal documents to a Usenet newsgroup explaining how tech reps are to assume problems are always on the customer's side. He subsequently posted them on various free Web services (WebJump and Angelfire) only to discover his pages mysteriously disappear. @Home earns bonus villain points for invoking the purely evil DMCA in their justification of this thuggish behavior."
You can publish an article stating "XYZ corp is poluting and knows it...." and discuss the contents of the documents, even extract quotes. Using this technique you are well within your rights under copyright law and cannot be accused of infringement.
If you are publishing data that is considered a trade secret, then they can sue you and you will receive a court order to remove the offending material.
Corporations cannot use trade secret law to cover up criminal acts. Simple. Whistleblower protections will also help prevent corporate retaliation. If there are criminal acts, forward the information to government procecutors and the press.
Copyright law is pretty straight forward. You cannot reproduce, copy, disseminate copyrighted material without some form of permission from the copyright holder.
ESR handled the halloween documents in exactly the proper way to prevent copyright infringement. If you want to publish internal corporate information, look at how he did it.
In @home's case, they were not breaking the law. Also, the documents seem to be parts of a contract. Contracts are normally protected by trade secret law.
If Wesley's intent was to show that @home purposefully evades responsibilty for product defects, then he should have said that and quoted the relevant section of the documents to prove his case. @home would have had a much more difficult case to prove.
g
Yes they do. Just because the government stopped enforcing the monpoly doesn't mean that it just instantly disappeared. It was well-entrenched and it will take quite a bit of time for competition to return to that industry.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
He has nothing to do with @home. He owns High Speed Access. See, it's easy to find that out if you just look at @home's webpage. http://www.home.net/news/bios/ Man, that sure was taxing. But now I'm not talking out of my ass and I don't look like a dork.
Carpe Deez
Damn right the constitution only applies to the government. The government is the only entity that needs constitutional limits, because the government is the only entity that has an inherent right to deprive other entities of their rights in the name of preserving the rights of others. If OmniMegaCorp (tm) could arrest me and throw me in jail, then they'd need to have constitutional restrictions requiring them to give me a fair trial. But they can't.
It's a mystery. What is it about the so-called "philosophy" of Ayn Rand and Co. that so bedazzles its votaries? How does this silly, airy stuff induce so many intelligent people so blithely to ignore the facts of the world, even when they thrust themselves under their very noses? "But they can't."? They can and did; OmniMegaCorp, or rather @Home, has granted itself the right to functionally abridge Wesley's right to free speech.
While being summarily muzzled by an overpoweringly powerful corporation is not as painful an experience as, say, being thrown in jail, or being beaten to death over a labor dispute by the Ford Motor Company's armed security guards (1932) nonetheless it is a naked violation of one's right to free speech. Yet you assert that the First Amendment only weighs against the government, and does not affect the bully-censors of that odious @Home company. If only the Federal Government is restrained by the First Amendment, then U.S. citizens's vaunted free-speech right is a hollow one indeed.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
Yeah, I was an early adopter too. I think I left about the time you stopped using that handle, but when I read the article it was pretty clear who it was. ;)
I only left athm to move to another offering from the same cable company. it's a local only vpn project with a couple *huge* local employers that have need of *massive* bandwidth for employees at home. The bandwidth is incredible, but they're even more heavy handed than athm was... for example there is an automated process that watches router logs for inbound connections on certain ports that result in outbound dataflows over a few bytes... that process is tied into the dhcp servers and the routers and will issue you a new IP address and null route your old one in only a few hours. (leases are only 6 hours)
Oh and the TOS are very interesting... includes a section that amounts to "thou shalt not transfer immoral materials across the service." Makes athm look liberal.
Yeah, there were a few really good folks in that ng, but also a LOT of jerks... my kill file only had one entry in it that wasn't from there, and I tend to use it heavily in newsgroups that had that kind of volume.
does that invalidate the 12 year contracts that were in place? I don't think so.
It does invalidate the "monopoly" clauses of those contracts, whether you think so or not.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
I live in a suburb of Chicago that has yet to be wired for @Home.. What is the competition for @Home in Chicagoland, because I'd love to know? Thanks!
21st Century is one and MediaOne is another. I know 21st century is trying to expand out of the city as fast as possible, to keep up with AT&T, and I've heard a lot of good things about them technically as well as customer service-wise.
I don't really mean to be defending AT&T here ($DIETY knows I hate AT&T Digital Cable), but yet again my personal experience with @Home was very good.
Their mail, DNS etc are run off an MS box in another state and never work.
This wasn't the case for me. All the services I needed appeared to be located on boxes in Illinois and were fast & reliable.
Their "software" is extreemly invasive and intolerable.
The dude who installed my service asked me if I wanted it installed or if I just wanted the IP, Gateway, DNS, Proxy & mail server details to do it myself. So I didn't get the software installed. Having said that, I doubt it's more invasive than, say, AOL.
Their sevice is also piss poor and has all the bad attitude of the +5 blame the user posts above.
Again, my experience, and perhaps this is only in the Chicago area, was very good.
The only solution to a problem like this is to demand an end to local cable monopolies. Shutting down critics is just more fuel for the fire.
Well I'll agree with demanding an end to local cable monopolies. Ameritech's stranglehold in this area is case enough. However, to return to the original point, in this case the guy was publishing internal & private documents. I don't see AT&T as being in the wrong for wanting to not have their private corporate documents made public.
Not to mention, of course, as lots of people have pointed out, that that view of technical support is probably correct anyway.
Employees work for their employers, not for the customers. By making the customers feel stupid, they shift the customers' blame from the company onto themselves.
Companies providing internet access for $20 per month couldn't break even on tech support costs, let alone the cost of providing internet access, if their TS people encouraged customers to call, and actually did their very best to resolve all problems in a polite manner.
Those same customers would never switch to a $50/month company that could profitably supply the tech support they complain they aren't getting.
Smiles and "Have A Nice Day" don't cost much, so they're worthwhile for McDonalds, so you get them. One of the great advantages of presenting a constantly happy, smiling face to the customer is that it makes them seem ridiculous and irrational if they actually complain about the poor quality of the food, or react as if being rushed in and out as quickly as possible is rude (perish the thought!). Imagine how you'd react if a regular restaurant demanded that you order the instant a waiter was available, gave you food that was pre-fabbed weeks ago and heated an hour ago, and rushed you out the door 15 minutes after you came in.
Remember, their "job" as restaurant personnel is to give you a high-quality meal in a relaxing environment. So they're totally incompetent, and rude. Oh, no wait, their job is to make money for their employers, by hook or by crook, just like everyone else's.
Tech support guys don't "mouth off to customers so they'll go away and stop interfering with [their] on-the-job leisure time", they prevent the customer from switching to another service with a minimum outlay of company resources. Sometimes the best tool for this is intimidation or ridicule.
Customers choose to be abused by demanding service at a price that doesn't cover the level of service they need. If customers actually switched to more expensive services when they got brushed off by tech support, they'd get good tech support. You don't always get what you pay for, but you never get more.
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OK, I stand corrected. All I really know is that the bills I get for my cable modem service come from "AT&T @Home", and that in this area, getting a cable modem means getting it from those folks. I was under the impression that cable modems everywhere were @Home, and I made the incorrect conclusion that since my @Home is AT&T, everyone's was.
-Rob
I say we kill him, burn him, then eat him. I mean what are these @home customers thinking? -Jeremy On Mistakes : It Could Be that the Purpose of Your Life Is Only to Serve as a Warning to Others.
Sorry, but I'd side with RoadRunner in this case.
When you read "up to X" in advertising literature, they are not guaranteeing that they'll be able to provide "X", just that they aren't able to provide "X+1".
Read the fine print. If it doesn't say "guarantee of at least Y", don't expect anything in terms of guarantees.
As for Port 25 blocks... 95% of those who want to host an SMTP server are doing it for relays or their own spamming enterprises. The other 5% are doing it as a part of their technical consulting, and that's against the "for home and personal use only" clauses of the terms of service. If you're a business, you are invited to use more professional-grade features. You're eating bandwidth, and they have to charge for it.
[
Actually this just triggered something in my memory about my ADSL connection.
One night I suddenly lost access to my ADSL connection. Everything was silent; nothing worked. So I went to bed, expecting it to work the next day. I use a Linux system as a firewall between my home PC and the ADSL connection. When the ADSL service dies, I have to reboot this firewall, my home PC and my ADSL modem before I can reconnect. I couldn't do this until the following night until I got home, so my service was down for about 16 hours (say).
When I complained to Bell Sympatico, their response was:
Thank you for informing us of your current difficulties.
We really would like to help you resolving the situation, however your message did not contain all the information we need to understand your difficulties.
In order for us to help you we need the following information:
- What is the exact error message you are getting ?
- At what point do you get this message ?
- Are you using Windows 95, Windows 98 or Mac ?
With this information, we will be able to provide you with the solution related to your problem.
Thank you for writing to us. Should you have any further questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us again.
My point is that I didn't say I was getting an error message. I simply said I couldn't access any internet protocol; http, ftp, smtp or pop3. Their immediate response was to presume that I was at fault, or that my PC was not configured properly.
In the end I gave up - my service was back when I got home and rebooted, and its been there ever since. Also note the inept English in their response.
Well, their goal is to get your problem solved as quickly as possible so they can minimize the number of customer support people they have to pay for, so I don't know why they would consciously decide on such a policy.
--
Reminds of the weblog of Judith Sammel regarding her experiences with Comcast@Home entitled: Get a Cable Modem......Go to Jail. (briefly, they insisted that since she a had a cable hook-up, but no cableTV service, she must be a cable pirate, in fact she just had cable for the modem hook-up only.)
You would think that treating your customers as criminals would be a real bad business strategy, but until there is a major overlap of *DSL and Cable Internet coverage, these companies are going to act like the monopolies they have always been in the past.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
I'm a current @home subscriber, and have had nothing but problems with the way @home runs their service.
Many of the incidents, I attribute to sheer Idiocy. Example : 7 Months ago, my service gets cut off. I call and ask whats going on, as my modem isn't connecting.
The response I get is "We're upgrading your node, you'll be out of service for 3 weeks"
Well, isn't that just wonderful. I didn't recieve so much as a NOTICE that the service was going down, and to top it off, after the service came back up 3 weeks later, I recieve an email dated THREE DAYS after service was shutdown, notifying me of the service outage.
As if that isn't bad enough, I changed credit cards in June. Being a responsible individual, I call and give the new numbers to their billing dept so that they can continue billing me.
About 2 weeks ago, my service gets cut off again w/o any notice. Calling their tech support, I find out they've cut me off for "Billing Issues"
Apparently they never updated their accounting database with my new numbers, and had been billing the old card inneffectively for the past 4 months.
During this period, I never recieved a Phone Call, Email, or Mail Notice regarding the billing problem. They just chose to cut-off my service, w/o notification. Re-instating the service took about a week, because they "Cannot bill you manually, only on the 7th and 14th of the month"
Its amazing to me that @Home can stay in business with such poor customer service. I guess when you have a monopoly on Broadband access, you dont have to worry about appeasing your customers.
~MhaelI agree with you. All companys have these kind of documents. This kind of stuff isnt new. No matter what the documents say, what he did was wrong, it was stealing.
query is null.
Sounds like Deja also pulled the posts.
I am a bad speler. Please ignore speling meestakes in me poast.
What's wrong with it?
Well, first of all, unless the information released was protected with some "technological protection measure" that Wesley circumvented, the DMCA doesn't even apply.
The real problem here is that companies have been accusing anybody & everybody of violating the DMCA whenever they don't like something. It doesn't matter whether the act in question is actually covered by the DMCA, or whether it is illegal under any law for that matter. Companies simply assume that individuals won't be able or willing to afford legal counsel, so they make baseless legal threats hoping people will acquiesce to their demands. It works because even people who know they are correct will give in to the company rather than piss away a large amount of their time and money resisting. The abuse of the DMCA is just yet another reason why we need tort reform in the US to prevent frivolous legal action.
I just got DSL installed. Speakeasy (thru Covad thru Verizon) is my provider. I was getting 60% packet loss, so I called tech support. Immediately after the guy said "Hello my name is Bob", I said, "Hi I'm Dave, and I'm getting packet loss. It could be because the routing is funny - it's going through NYC...". If you do this, the tech will immediately know that you're smart, and will skip the "click start, click settings, click control panel" script.
P.S. Speakeasy tech support is really good, and they give you 30 hrs/month free dialup access to use when you're waiting for your DSL to be installed (or when it goes down). They gave a friend of mine a free month for being the first person to report downtime, and another for being nice about it.
Become a FSF associate member before the low #s are used
Man you guys nailed it here. I run a small ISP and have the unfavorable job of answering help desk calls in the evening......
One of the problems to understand is that when you call for tech support, chances are you're calling a very large contract call center. Most of "kids" manning the phones at these places are lightly trained and to be quite honest the bottom of the barrel. Any of the tech support / CS people who are any good have long since been promoted to supervisors or managers.
As a rule of thumb, if your problem is of a significant enough nature, politely ask for your problem to be escalated without going into details. This normally works, and you have the added benefit of speaking with a better trained and normally less stressed person who has the time to work with you.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
I believe, that the calls that he was pointing out are the ones like
"Netscape won't load and fucking pages, why does your service suck so badly?"
"Are you connected to the Internet, Sir?"
"Fuck yes, do I sound dumb?"
"And I assume that this is on a separate phone line?"
(PAUSE) "CLICK."
Not the ones like,
"I've noticed a steady decrease in throughput... Perhaps it's line noise, but I don't know how to test for that, can you help me?"
"Lemmie go pull out my testing equipment!"
Eh...
...it is forced on them by circumstances ultimately stemming from customer choice.
tech support person providing polite and effective help for half an hour receives the same wage as a tech support person providing intimidation and ridicule for half an hour
...right up until they are fired for taking an hour and a half with each customer, and having frequent repeat callers, when the jerk next to you is taking 5 minutes and his callers never use tech support twice. You can't take the attitude that the customer is more important than your manager; you get to treat the customer well when the manager tells you to do so.
As a tech writer, what's best for the customer is always best for the company. Those documents only need to be written once, and the better they are, the fewer support calls and returns they will get. You are in a privileged position to be able to follow your natural inclination to be helpful, unless you are hired by a particularly incompetent bastard.
But the pressure to be rude to the customers comes directly from the customers themselves.
The customers select only the cheapest service, this puts pressure on the business to cut costs, which puts pressure on the tech support managers to squeeze more clients for the same tech support dollar, who then start firing tech support guys who take too long to get people off the phone. The jerks succeed, the nice, helpful people get tossed. Some are naturals, while many more are changed by the pressure ("Augh! This idiot is going to cost me my job! I'm under quota! How can I make him go away?").
Of course, the pressure from the customer comes in part from misinformation handed to them in advertising.
I applaud open and honest advertising like this. If more people saw that good tech support is too expensive for cheap products and services, they might start making informed decisions about whether they are willing to pay for it or would be better off learning to handle things for themselves.
Well, they get what you deserve for watching an hour of advertising each day. Of course you're going to make bad decisions based on all that misinformation. I hate paid advertising.
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Remember, @Home is owned by AT&T, those fun people who were talking about charging online merchants a fraction of any sale to a AT&T Broadband customer, and even for just "delivering" those customers to the merchant in the first place.
Actually, IIRC they were talking about charging online merchants in this manner for sales made when the merchants were hosted on AT&T's actual broadband network (i.e. their lines, their hosting setup, @Home's main customer website etc....).
I believe that AT&T/@Home has a vritual monopoly in the US on the cable modem lines. (My cable modem is certinaly AT&T/@Home, and it makes me think I should be posting this anonymously... oh well.) If it weren't for DSL, it would be a virtual broadband monopoly. Is there a lesson in here somewhere? A lesson that's been learned over and over again in history?
In Chicago alone we've got a couple of decent cable competitors, one of which is owned by Microsoft. Let's not go over the top on this one yet.
If we had other cable companies to get our cable modem service from, we wouldn't have to endlessly bitch about @Home.
But you'd still want, to, wouldn't you? Be fair.
From the other end, @Home would have to clean up their act to keep their customers.
To be honest, they were very good to me when I was a customer. And I left them for reasons not involving them in any way.
I know I've swicthed phone-in ISPs several times, and have found one which has service and capabilities that really match what I want. If we can't vote with our feet, but can only bitch against people who have weird "intellectual property" laws to stifle that bitching, we're hosed.
Even if I believed everything I've heard about @Home & AT&T, they'd still not be as bad as Ameritech or British Telecom. There are a lot of crap companies out there. AT&T isn't the only bugbear.
Corporations are not people. I have no problem with the death of unpersons. All you would have to do is pull the corporate charter for a few of reckless ones, and they are dead. The rest would see this and give a second thought to engaging in questionable activities. This would be far more effective then suing them for billions of dollars.
Only in the cities they serve. Time Warner's Roadrunner is the other monopoly. Except that DSL is becoming more and more available. Which is competition for both TW and ATT.
So they really don't have a "monopoly in the US". Just in certain cities.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
So, uh, please enlighten us to what the actual message ID is...
If anybody knows the URL where those documents used to be, he still can get them from google:. org/localpath
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.somehost
All this discussion and not a single url to the actual docs in question... Has anyone mirrored them yet? Wesley?
I already thought @home techs were reading from pre-written scripts and the like...
if there are any reputable cable-access providers around. Roadrunner in Tennessee is about as well liked as @Home. We're constantly having problems. Personally, I'm for running fibre to each and every person's house, and each person/family/household can have their own T1+ at home. Maybe then we can get some peace of mind. Would make running Quake/Napster servers faster at any rate.
-What have you contributed lately?
Customers and potential customers have a need to know what company technical support and refund policies are.
@home has no business telling customers and potential customers that policies relating directly to them are IP, and thus propriatary information.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
@home conisistantly astounds me with their lack of honesty from install to livewire it's constant "We're working to correct the problem" backtalk that comes straight out of a manual. It's to the point that I would choose another ISP if given the choice simply on principle.
I agree. If I'd taken my companies internal documents and posted them on a web site or newsgroup server, i'd have been sh*t-canned.
The term internal document isn't just for shits n giggles.
-- 100% MS-Free as of 4-4-1999, 11:47:38 PST. "The lapdance is always better when the stripper is cryin'" Free Kevin,
Why do you sound so shocked about the DMCA being used like this? Isn't this why we Americans invented it?
Perhaps next time we can keep a closer watch on our "representatives."
funny munging
That would be the point of the other post. If they can ram something like the DMCA up your ass sideways in the middle of the night without you knowing, would it be that much of a stretch for them to bend it to apply to anything they want?
funny munging
This is not a case of someone posting sensitive information like names of employees, phone numbers, etc. This is what a reporter would do to expose the company for purposely shifting blame for problems with their service to the end-user. In my experience, this is the norm.
<RANT>PacBell constantly assumes that my Windows98 is the problem and that I should reboot, lather, rinse and repeat until it works again. However, I don't have Windows. My Sun box has been rebooted once in 15 months (it's on a UPS). It has never been the problem! They are told to assume you are a moron even when proved otherwise. [Once, a senior tech at pacbell told me that without DNS setup "their way" I wouldn't be able to ping the router's IP address!] Thank God my Covad connection is only a week away.</RANT>
_damnit_
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
I wonder, though, if it was such a good idea for him to post on a private @Home forum the details of this information?
@Home's DMCA threats are obviously silly- I doubt all this would hold up in court.
Is it just me, or do most C&D letters sent involving DMCA issues tend to be like warning shots from a popgun?
--Perianwyr Stormcrow
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
I'm afraid we're "violently agreeing" here. When I typed "Journalist" with a capital "J", it was my shorthand for "mainstream media/professionally employed, and protected by corporate lawyers."
The sad fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter that he's a "journalist" (small j, all the rights, privlidges, and responsibilities thereof), he's not a "Journalist", and so finds himself in the "how must justice can you afford?" situation.
I'm not expecting The Fourth Estate to close ranks to defend this guy. Unless, of course, it'll make a nice sound bite on the 6:00 news...
stirring the pot since 19 mumblty mumble...
"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" --Voltaire
As for confidentiality, while there are some additional protections for companies (questionable, in my opinion), it's fundamentally still the responsibility of @Home to protect the confidentiality of their own documents. If we ever got to the point where merely stamping something "confidential" would allow a company to force anybody to stop distributing that information, we'd be in trouble.
Looks like the URL was eaten. Let's try it in plain text:
& QRY=wesright@my-deja.com&svcclass=dncurren t&DBS=2
http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/dnquery.xp?ST=PS
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
Granted, practicing medicine without a license is a criminal act in most of the world. To obtain said license one must have recieved a MD degree from an accredited medical school, so the distinction is pretty much academic.
Jouralists, unlike physicians, don't need a license to practice their trade. Posting text to the internet is legally identical to publishing it in print; giving the poster the same rights and responsibilities as a traditional publisher or journalist. It relates back to that little thing called "freedom of the press".
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Reposting copyrighted materials verbatim is not free speech. It's theft. Can I photocopy this month's Time magazine and give away copies on the street? No way.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
Granted, practicing medicine without a license is a criminal act in most of the world. To obtain said license one must have recieved a MD degree from an accredited medical school, so the distinction is pretty much academic.
Jouralists, unlike physicians, don't need a license to practice their trade. Posting text to the internet is legally identical to publishing it in print; giving the poster the same rights and responsibilities as a traditional publisher or journalist. It relates back to that little thing called "freedom of the press".
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Granted, practicing medicine without a license is a criminal act in most of the world. To obtain said license one must have recieved a MD degree from an accredited medical school, so the distinction is pretty much academic.
Jouralists, unlike physicians, don't need a license to practice their trade. Posting text to the internet is legally identical to publishing it in print; giving the poster the same rights and responsibilities as a traditional publisher or journalist. It relates back to that little thing called "freedom of the press".
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
You are right - cable is a monopoly. Providing internet to the masses is not, however. I don't deny that my choice of cable TV provider is Rogers or Rogers :) but I do have a choice in ISP. Even for high speed internet.
Dozer
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them."
Dozer
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them."
Side note: My cable modem has a web page (http://192.168.100.1). Got that address by doing some broadcast pings.
Sometimes I do business with the same company at work and at home. How they treat me at home will reflect on my business decisions when I am at work. For example, I had a problem with my Gateway at home. A customer service rep was beyond rude to me while I was trying to get a part number from her. I was then given the run around for a couple days while I tried to talk to her supervisor. Finally I talked to her supervisor who agreed that I was right and then "disciplined" the rep. But you see, that incident made me want to stop doing business with Gateway. We have now taken several hundred thousand $ of business away from Gateway and given it to Dell. It's that simple.
>If @home wants to have their documents be private, that is their right. Corporations have no obligation to make all of their information public Fine. They have no such obligation, (though serving your customers is a good business practice). But if I get a copy of that document, I have the right to publish it if it is information which interests the public. Which this is. Free speech. Wake up.
Rights are not conferred by laws. Laws exist to protect rights. The fact that the law gives a corporation certain "rights" does not mean that those rights exist morally.
In fact, corporations' "right" to exist at all is purely legal, not moral. It's granted by the government because corporations are a convenient way to organize large-scale activity. There would be no inconsistency in limiting corporations in any way... as long as the purpose of that limitation wasn't to destroy the rights of the underlying individuals.
Anybody who brings up the law in an argument about what corporations should be able to do is an idiot. The law is subject to change, should it be determined to be wrong.
-IANAL, and I have not seen the actual documents. However, if the documents show that @Home has service problems, and that they are trying to bill customers for services never rendered then we may be looking at a case that has federal whistle blower protection.
It certainly leaves @Home open to a class action law suites. Which is probally why they are irritated. If the documents have wide enough dispersement then it's no longer a trade secret. It could be used against them without suppression.
Since when do you have to work hard to apt-get something? Isn't that the whole point of apt-get?
Yeah, so it's off-topic...sue me. =)
Jeff
PS: Anyone who takes the last comment seriously is in serious jeopardy of being hired as a company lawyer...
So you also think the cigarette companies should have been able to hide their cancer causing documents behind the "trade secrets" , "between customers", "not meant for public scrutiny" clause too ?
They'll let you have servers and static IPs. You just have to pay for them.
Think, understand, then speak. )-x->
Dejanews archives most of Usenet, and as far as I know, doesn't honor cancels... You can look up a message by its message id on this page. The message id is right there in the Cancel Request control message.
Do you use their POP3 and SMTP servers? Other than the mail service my experience with my cable modem has been quite good. Only 2 or 3 instances of outages lasting more than a few minutes in the last 4 months. The mailserver OTOH, is down at least once a week if not more often for hours at a time. My solution, pay someone else for mail service.
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
It would seem to me, that any law stating that Wesley could not post pretty much anything is in direct violation of THIS law: "Congress ahall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." If this was an internal document, WHY was it sent to AT&T's cable partners? That act, by its very nature makes it no longer internal. I have no problem with a company or individual keeping a document internal. I just have a problem with LAWS that insinuate that because the company is not competent to keep its own secrets, that it can restrict freedom of speech to cover its arse. If Wesley WORKED for AT&T, and knowingly violated COMPANY policy in the publication of internal memos, then he is certainly in line for COMPANY discipline. As an private citizen however, there should be no threat of law against him. AT&T is certainly within its rights to no longer do bussiness with him, but threatening him with legal action, and invoking the DMCA is without cause. This is once again a case where federal regulation of an industry is causing problems. If the regulation on the cable industry was not such as it is, there would be a broadband competitor to AT&T in Wesley's area, and the whole case would not be an issue.
"42"
Bull.
If a spammer wanted to run a relay, he could easily block it off to everybody but himself. Most spammers don't even have the clue to run sendmail or it's eqivilent -- they just let their spam software do it all for them.
And lots of people run mail servers at home because they don't want to have to rely on the cable modem provider's mail server. Your little 95% and 5% breakdown doesn't leave much room for these people.
I've had both good and bad experiences with shaw@home..
My cable modem goes out every month or so - due (I'm told) to a bad router at the head end.
Usually when I call them, they're polite - they have certain things they have to go through ("release and renew your IP address"), but once they realize that I know more about TCP/IP than they do (I'm a network engineer/sysadmin - I maintain several large networks) things progress rather smoothly.
A couple of times though, I've had to talk to idiots who _refuse_ to listen to what I'm saying - they assume that because I'm the customer, they know more than me... it usually starts with "OK, click on the start menu.." - then I say "I'm not using Windows, I'm using Linux".. the response is "We don't support Linux".. my response is "That's OK, I do".. once the response was "I can't help you, because you're not running windows", so I tell him that this happens every month or so, and that he needs to have his techs test the head-end router for faults - after tearing him a new one he put me on hold for a few minutes, then came back and told me that I was right.
All in all, it depends entirely on the tech.. most of shaw@home is OK, but there are a few idiots in the barrel.
The only ways to address these issues is to engage your politicians with speech and money, and to vote for those favoring enlightened policies.
-dB
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
I too am in the Cherry Hill area...Glendora to be exact. And I get the same network brownouts. I haven't bothered to complain yet because I am sick of the crappy service and help I receive from the Cherry Hill office. It's always "my fault" something is wrong. My packet loss is also terrible.
No, just URL mangling by slashdot. Search for wesright@my-deja.com and you'll get lots of them.
This is currently only Rogers@Home, but might be spread by "suitable public concern" (;-)) See the Ottawa Citizen's article here.
davecb@spamcop.net
Come on people, this is /. here! Where's the karma whores posting the documents?!?! Let's get a look at these documents! Where are they?
Fear my low SlashID! (bidding starts at $500)
Do not anger the worm.
Actucally call to tech support (from memory, not exact).
Tech: tech support, can i get your username and city
Me: username, city, state
Tech: What problems are you having?
Me: I can't dial into your service, it is[interpurted]
Tech: Are you on a PC or Mac?
Me: PC, OpenBSD
Tech: Open whatca?
Me: The firewall is running OpenBSD on x86 hardware
Tech: Sorry we don't support firewalls, unless you have a corp account, want me to transfer you to a sales rep
Me: No, the firewall is on this end, never mind the problem I am having is that[interputed]
Tech: What OS are you running again?
Me: Open.. Never mind, I am running Windows
Tech: I though you wheren't on a PC
Me: Never mind, forget I said anything, I am running Windows 98 on a Dell computer
Tech: What type of Dell computer
Me: That isn't the problem, listen[interputed]
Tech: Sir please do not raise your voice, if you continue like 'this' I will have to hang up
Me: The problem is that when I dial in, it the operator says the number is out of service
Tech: What number are you dialing?
Me: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Tech: You realize that you don't have to put in the area code if you are dialing a local number, what is your area code?
Me: Yes I know that.
Tech: Ok, lets just check it, double click on My computer than dial up networking.
Me: I am dialing with a hand held phone
Tech: You can't get the internet with a normal phone, you need a modem installed in your computer
Me: Did they forward my call to the BTFH?
Tech: excuse me?
Me: Never mind, can YOU dial the number, if there is a modem there, you will get all this static for the modem.
Tech: *SIGH*, hold up, let me dial directly into that modem pool and get a connection from here
waiting for 15 minutes on hold
Tech: Sir, yes it appears that number is down, we have contacted the local telco and are working to get this reslove in a timely manner
Me: Do you have an estimated time?
Tech: estimated time for what?
Me: Do you have an estimated time of when the problem with be resolved?
Tech: Do you have a phone line plugged into your modem?
Me: ?? What does it matter, you just said it was on the telco's end not mine.
Tech: To get the internet you must have a phone line running to the back of your computer, it should be plug in to what is called the [speaking slowly] mo-dem
Me: What? Are you on drugs?
Tech: Sir, I do not engage in that type of activity. Could you please hold.
... waiting on hold for 5 minutes
Lady: Hi this is xxxxx from xxxxx internet sales department, I heard you where intersted in a corp account?
Me: No
Lady: how can I help you sir?
Me: Can you forward me to tech support?
Lady: Sorry sir, I can't do that, these lines don't transfer, you will have to call xxx-xxxx
Me: Um, if they can transfer me in here, why can't you transfer me back to them? And why didn't you give me the 1-800 number
Lady: [nervous] I don't know Sir, you will have to discuss that with tech support, I just do sales.
Me: Um yea, bye
Lady: Have a nice day and thank you for calling xxxx internet.
I never called back, I canceled the next day.
I also worked on tech support desk, so I know how it is on both ends.
One of my co-workers talked to this guy for 45 minutes trying to get a "invalid password" error in DUN. My co-worker ask him 5+ times "Is you caps lock key on". The customer got really pissed after being on the phone for 45 minutes and asked to talk to a differant tech support. My co-worker gave me the call.
I telneted to 110 on the server and used the username/password he gave me, and it accepted it (pop3 user/pass same as radius user/pass). After that, I setup a connection on the tech machine there and got a connection with that user/password.
After about 5-10 minutes for talking to a very pissed customers (I asked him about 5 times at this point "is your caps lock on? all lower case?") I had him delete and recreate the connection, delete the *.pwl files, reboot his computer and some other stuff.
After 20 minutes, the customer was REALLY pissed off, so I had to get sly in my questions:
Me: Sir, please claim down, we need your help in troubleshooting this problem
Him: I AM FUCKING CLAIM, FIX YOUR DAM SERVICE
Me: Sir, some keyboard are incompatiable with our service, I need you to look at your keyboard in the upper left hand corner
Him: you never said anything about incompatiable keyboards when I signed up, what am I supose to be looking at. I paid over $3000 for this dam computer, the keyboard is working fine.
Me: In the upper right had corner, there will be 3 leds
Him: LEADS [should be leds] WHAT IS THIS TECHNO JARGON, speak english
Me: 3 little lights
Him: Yea, what about them?
Me: Which ones are lite up?
Him: Numb [should be number] Lock, Caps Lock the other is blank
Me: Yea, see Sir that keyboard is incompatiable with our service, don't worry though there is a easy fix
Him: What is that
Me: Call up the computer you purcahsed the keyboard from, or computer if the keyboard came with the computer and ask them to get your the "Caps-lock hotfix service patch 1"
Him: What slow down, let me get a pen
a couple seconds later
Him: What do I need to ask them again?
Me: Ask them for the "Caps Locks hotfix patch" tell him your want the manual instructions for disabling the caps lock led on your keyboard
Him: Caps lock hotfit patches, for the um manually instructed for diabling caps lock leads on my key pads ?
Me: Yea, ask them for that
Him: ok, bye
[click]
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
I have @Home through Charter (originally through Marcus Cable). I have always been happy with their uptime - it's better than the T1s at many of the jobs I've had. I have always been happy with their tech support. They usually know what they are doing, always listen to me, and have never put me down (unlike several ISPs I've had in the past).
The only time that I've had a problem with them at all was when they recently changed out my old LANCity modem for a DOCSIS modem. The problem was that they didn't give me much notice before they did it. The tech wasn't well-versed in how non-Windows systems worked. (I let him play with my Mac for 10 minutes looking for the Network Neighborhood, and wouldn't let him go near my Linux boxes). Even so, 15 minutes after the tech got the modem hooked up, I was back up online.
-jeff
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
There is a Rogers@Home user association. www.rhua.org is the website. The more members this organization represents, the more Rogers' management will pay attention to it.
You, in fact may not have the right to post that card. You may not scan a card you recieved and post it on your web site. Something does not have to be a trade secret for you to be prohibited from distributing it (or copies of it) without permission.
c i
See these links for additional examples:
http://www.patents.com/weblaw.sht#scan
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html#w
In particular, copyright protection "generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others...to reproduce the work"
-- Erv Walter
##### OLD - note the date ..!!! #####
- --------------------------
...note the reason for the $35.00 fee needing to be reversed.
Chargeback Model
-----------------------------------------------
------
OperatingProcedures
Subject: Chargeback Model
Date: 6/4/99
Procedure #: 5
Effective June 1, 1998, @Home will begin charging customers for "self
inflicted" service problems.
When a customer call is escalated to Tier 2 for a self inflicted service
issue, they will be provided service free of charge for the first offense.
At that time they will be informed that any future self inflicted service
assistance will be subject to a $35 fee. This will also be individually
communicated via e-mail.
The customer will be advised of a $35.00 service charge for telephone
support, or a $49.00 charge for onsite support, involving the
reinstallation of the Comcast @Home software or reconfiguration of their
computer. Example: hardware or software conflicts resulting from either
adding or removing software or hardware to/from their computer will be
subject to support charges. The customer support representative will
inform the customer if a service fee applies to the type of support being
requested.
The $35 fee will not be charged if the telephone support results in an
onsite visit. If it is necessary to perform an onsite service call within
one week of a Tier 2 $35 charge call, Tier 2 must immediately credit the
customer $35. At home will retain the applicable $35 fee for telephone
support or Comcast will retain the $49 fee for onsite support.
Tier 2 Call Center
In the event that a Tier 2 TSR rolls a truck within seven (7) days of a
prior $35 charge call, they must immediately credit the $35 and advise the
customer that they have been credited the $35 but that a $49 charge may
apply for the onsite service being scheduled.
The TSR must note this advisement on the truck roll work order. Example:
Customer advised of possible $49 service fee.
Comcast Call Center
In the event that a Tier 1 CAE rolls a truck within seven (7) days of a
prior $35 @Home charge call, they must have the fee credited. The CAE
should create a Remedy Ticket for the service call as usual and schedule
the truck roll. They must then create a second Remedy Ticket in order to
process the credit. The Remedy Ticket should be completed in the following
format and assigned to TSR.
Request Type: Inquiry
Category: Billing
Type: Invoice Inquiry
Assignee: TSR Priority
Description:
The CAE must inform the customer that the $35 telephone support fee has
been credited but that a $49 onsite charge may apply. The CAE must note
this advisement on the truck roll work order. Example: Customer advised of
possible $49 service fee.
And since when are internal policy documents protected under copyright law?
Copyright law dosn't draw a distinction between a "policy document" and a best selling novel.
A distinction is likely to be made by a civil court in asessing damages though. Though in this case @home should fully expect to be counter sued for breach of contract.
Subject: Stolen Modem - Comcast
- --------------------------
From: Wesley
Stolen Modem
-----------------------------------------------
------
OperatingProcedures
Subject: Stolen Modem
Date: 6/4/99
Procedure #: 4
In the event that a modem (or other Comcast equipment) is stolen while in
the possession of a customer we should handle it in the following manner:
Advise the customer that they are responsible for the price of the modem
and that we will be billing him/her our cost on the equipment. Current
pricing should be verified with the Online Director of Finance before a
quote is made. While credit card billing is preferred, they have the
option of paying by check. A Police report must be mailed to the following
address (and payment, if paying by check made payable to Comcast Online):
Comcast Online
Attn: Director of Finance
One Belmont Ave. 11th Fl.
Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004
Once the payment has been made with a copy of the Police report, Comcast
will provide a receipt, via mail, and schedule an appointment to reinstall
the service at current reinstall prices. Service will not be restarted
without a Police report.
The customer should be advised to claim the loss on their home owners
policy for reimbursement and use the provided receipt as proof of value.
My wife has Rogers@Home, too, and the support folks have been quite pleasant to us when something goes wrong. They're not rocket scientists, but they knew what I meant when I reported that I couldn't set a subnet mask or do a route add. Alas, the correction was to reinstall TCP/IP on my wifes's PC, but that wasn't Roger's fault. I particularly like the little diagnostic app they provided, which is a visual ping/traceroute. You don't need to know anything more than to press the button, and it shows you what servers are up/down. And finally, Rogers just showed up in the local paper announcing their refund policy for outages: this follows up on discussions in the Globe and Mail, notably one where Rogers' supplier, Excite@Home Canada Inc. admits "We have dropped the ball on a number of occasions over the last couple of weeks. . . . We have caused some pain to the users of the @Home service -- and that's a bad thing."
davecb@spamcop.net
What is your source for that number? I'm not being a dick, I'd just like to be able to point people to it....
I'm on Cogeco@home (Niagara Falls, Canada) and the tech support is pretty clueless. They do try to stonewall, but when they figure out that they're talking to someone who "knows" they usually come around.
On a more humourous note my friend who is on Rogers@home (Kitchener, Ontario) was told by tech support that "this network stuff is too complicated for you and you shouldn't try to figure it out". He's a network engineer (a real one, not a Solitaire Expert).
but to claim up to X, it has to be possible to achieve X. I never expected to get 10Mbs transfer rates - I understand network congestion and cable's shared bandwidth system. However, before the cap, it was possible to achieve 10Mbs under perfect, though unlikely, conditions. I signed onto up to 10Mbs not up to 2Mbs.
As for Port 25 blocks... 95% of those who want to host an SMTP server are doing it for relays or their own spamming enterprises. The other 5% are doing it as a part of their technical consulting
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
It's humorous how many slashdotters think they have a clue about the law just because they read the articles about Napster. I'm going to say this once:
1) THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LAYPERSON AND A JOURNALIST.
The First Amendment's guarantee of "freedom of the press" has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court to mean exactly the same thing as the Amendment's guarantee of "freedom of speech." Don't believe me? Check out New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), among other prominent cases on the issue. Therefore, our good Wesley, if protected at all, is protected whether or not he's a "journalist."
2) THESE DOCUMENTS ARE NOT A TRADE SECRETS
A typical definition of a trade secret can be found under Arizona law:
"Trade secret" means information * * * that both: (a) Derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to, and not being readily ascertainable by proper means by, other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use [and] (b) Is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.
The reason that these documents are not trade secrets should be obvious -- they have no independent economic value. Rather, they are just a set of (rather draconian) policies that have value only within the context of the company.
3) WHILE THIS MATERIAL IS IP SUBJECT TO COPYRIGHT LAW, WESLEY CLEARLY HAS A VALID "FAIR USE" DEFENSE
Four factors govern fair use: The nature and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or if it is for nonprofit educational purposes; the nature of the copyrighted work; the amount and the substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and the effect of the use upon the potential market for and value of the copyrighted work. This work has no market value and was being used for nonprofit educational and informative purposes.
I swear, you libertarian-types give me the creeps. You scream bloody murder when the government violates your rights, but if it's a corporation misusing the law to do it, you bend over and pull down your pants. Sheesh.
--J (yes, IAL)
I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners. - Berke Breathed
Subject: @Home Self-Installation Procedures
- --------------------------
From: Wesley
@Home Self-Installation Procedures
-----------------------------------------------
------
OperatingProcedures
Subject: @Home Self-Installation Kit
Date: 5/10/00
Procedure #: 22
1. Screen all potential customers per current computer requirements.
2. Determine if sub resides in either the Alexandria, VA market (ALEX1) or
the East Brunswick, NJ market (EBNSK1).
If so:
3. Describe the @Home Self-Installation Kit to customer.
* The @Home Self-Installation kit is at no cost to the customer and a
free month is offered with it.
* Cost: Standard monthly service charges and modem lease charges will
apply.
* Eligible customers should be computer savvy. Must be comfortable
with installing hardware/software. (A good question to ask the sub is if
they have ever installed a sound card or memory). The installation may
require opening their computer. (If the subscriber has any apprehension or
hesitation regarding this criteria; THEY ARE NOT A CANDIDATE).
* Must have an active cable outlet within 20ft of computer.
4. Obtain customer information and build account in BOS.
* Leave the New Connect pending with no date.
* Document in the remarks field in BOS that this is a self-install
subscriber.
* Determine whether customer wants a USB (CATC) or NIC (Intel PCI).
You will document this in Remedy later on.
5. Provide customer with details of the product ship date (will be shipped
within 24 hours via 2nd day UPS), contact numbers for customer
service/Tech support (1-888-793-0800) and computer information they will
need to complete the install (logon, password, DNS, and IP address; this
info will also be shipped to them).
6. Close the sale with new customer (Use current Quality Assurance
guidelines).
7. Access customer account in Remedy.
* Create a new ticket.
* In Summary field, write: Self-Installation
* In the Request Type menu choose: Service
* In the Category menu choose: Self-Installation
* In the Type menu choose: Self-Installation
* Leave ticket pending
8. Send Mailpad to Innotrac
* You will select either the Self-Installation/NIC option or the Self-
Installation/USB option according to the customer's specifications.
* The recipient will be kwilliams@innotrac.com
Pre-provisioning/Account Activation
*To be done by designated CAE's only!
1. Innotrac will email back a spreadsheet containing customer name, modem
number and UPS tracking number.
2. Enter the modem numbers into the corresponding customer accounts. (BOS)
3. Activate customers account in BOS.
* Click on Find Request
* Double click on the New Connect pending (with no date)
* Insert today's date in the cable team complete date field
* Write self in team tech field
* Insert today's date in the other complete date field
* Write install in other tech field
4. Apply the free month credit to the account in the Adjustments field.
5. Access customers account in Remedy
6. Locate the open ticket labeled self-installation
7. Input the UPS tracking number and modem number in the work log field.
8. Close the ticket.
Installation Problems
1. No self-install customers should be transferred to Tier 2 prior to a
truck roll by local market.
2. An install charge is applied to any customer's accounts that require a
truck roll due to a failed self-install.
See, there is a use for P2P after all. These CNET types don't know what they're talking about...
Reporting on a subject and distributing copyrighted material. The first amendment does not give journalists the right to break copywrite laws. Fair use arguments don't apply when the centent is mostly copywrited material either.
-- Erv Walter
If I post the instructions off the back of a Tylenol bottle do you think Tylenol should be able to sue me?
Be ot or bot ne ot, taht is the nestquoi.
Look at how ESR handled the halloween documents. He was very carefull about how he posted them. That is the proper way to handle leaked corporate information and CYA.
gwonkIt sometimes amazes me how the average IQ of Slashdot readers has dropped in the past 12 months.
--
I see a lot of comments here along the lines of "copyright trumps free speech" and so on. I have to disagree, specifically in this case, but in general when publication is in the public interest.
After all, do you want a situation where the Pentagon could have stopped the NYT from publishing the Pentagon Papers just by pointing out they were copyrighted?
--
--
E_NOSIG
Then again i live in a part of Toronto(more specifically Oakville) that most of the people are lower income/retired. So i have most of the pipes to myself and the network isn't under a great deal of stress.
I'm just a college kid in a house with a bunch of other students, luckily the other people are all arts or some other non-tech related fields so there is nothing bogging me down. Not bad for $39.95 canadian a month (somebody else is paying for cable TV, so i got the discount package, split the cable in my room that the cable guy put in for my cablemodem, and now i get 72 channels free too!).
I have to wonder, why does someone have to be a Designated Journalist before one is "allowed" to investigate things of interest to oneself?
This guy wanted to find out why @Home service -- a service he is paying for -- sucks. So did a lot of other people who were in the same boat. So he does some digging around, finds a sympathetic soul at @Home willing to spill a few beans. He then publishes his findings.
Tell me: What, ethically, is wrong with this? You may argue that the documents were company confidential, and the company should be able to prevent their disclosure. But where, in concrete legal terms, is the line on actionable disclosure?
Let's say someone uncovers internal documents of a certain ISP revealing they have an official policy of "losing" account cancellation requests, thereby continuing to bill customers' credit cards. This is clearly information that is material to the ISP's competetive advantage. Should it be treated as a trade secret? Should be the ISP be able to silence its disclosure?
"But that practice is flagrantly illegal!" you cry. Okay, how about something more nebulous: Based on studies that most people give up after 10 minutes, the ISP (confidentially) establishes a policy mandating a minimum 15 minute wait on hold for tech support. They also use caller-ID to immediately identify the caller, look up their account and, based on previous call frequency or experience, weight their calling priority. This is clearly a practice that is grievously disrespectful to their customers, but it's not illegal. Should this information remain confidential? Should the ISP be able to prevent its disclosure?
Ethically, I see little wrong with what Wesley did. Its revelation is merely embarrassing to @Home, nothing more.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
This is exactly the sort of attitude that gives geeks a bad name.
Most of the people calling tech support aren't "stupid"; they just don't enjoy wasting hours reading some incomprehensible manual... and I say this as a tech writer myself: there are a LOT of bad manuals out there. They don't get their kicks from playing with computers. I do, but that doesn't make me smarter than them, just different. (And better paid, but that's another discussion.)
I have non-geek friends who are perfectly intelligent, even brilliant, individuals. They use AOL, because it's simple and they don't have to mess with it. They don't have the inclination to spend a couple weeks on the phone with tech support trying to troubleshoot a bad DSL connection, as I did. They're English professors, not network engineers. And the last thing they deserve is some snotty geek-snob treating them like morons just because they dared to call tech support. That would be like your mechanic laughing at you because you didn't understand the [insert rambling, incomprehensible car problem here] and then getting hostile toward you because you didn't know how to fix it yourself. After all, all you'd need is a brain and a [insert name of obscure, baffling automotive tool], right?
The same people that are about to rail on @home are the same ones that will (ironically) rail against every "luser" that is always wrong.
t
Search Deja for "~a doug@fsck-athome.lordlegacy.org" & "~g comp.dcom.modems.cable"
Sample:
The following procedure outlines the proper steps to be taken when dealing with customers that have been suspended for AUP violations and customers wanting to report an AUP violation.
If you are talking to someone who has been suspended, warned or terminated for an AbuseViolation:
1. Verify that they are a customer who has had action taken against them, and not someone reporting abuse.
2. Transfer them to the Policy Management phone line. This phone is answered 7 AM to 7 PM, Monday through Friday PST. The direct line is (650) 569-5399. You may distribute this phone number freely. If no one is available to answer the phone, Policy Management will call them back if they leave voice mail.
3. Do NOT discuss the issue with them, the Policy Management Team will do this when they speak to the customer.
If you are talking to someone who wants to report a Violation of @Home's Acceptable Use Policy:
1. Direct them to send email to abuse@home.com. Please include any relevant documentation: log file excerpts, email message or Usenet posting with complete headers, URL, etc. This is the preferred method of reporting an abuse violation and will cause a ticket to be automatically generated. The Policy Management team will follow up on the report. Do NOT open a ticket and assign it to Abuse.
2. If they insist on speaking to someone, transfer them to the Policy Management phone line. This phone is answered 7 AM to 7 PM, Monday through Friday PST. The direct line is (650) 569-5399. You may distribute this phone number freely. If no one is available to answer the phone, Policy Management will call them back if they leave voice mail.
If you are talking to someone who has a question about @Home's Abuse Policy:
1. Direct them to http://www.home.net/aup where the AUP is posted.
2. If they have a question about the policy as written, they can send email to abuse-policy@corp.home.net.
@Home could just take some responsibility and admit it sucks too. Amen to that.
I had to spend 7-8 hours on the phone with Comcast@Home in Indy to get things moving. They sent me three, count 'em three modems before they got one that worked.
Seems that when you call the Tech Support # they give you, you get Customer Service. The girl that answered my call refused to listen to what I was saying, and could only accept a problem of, "The power light isn't on." Once you convice Customer Support that you need to talk to a tech, they give you a different # to call, and open a ticket stating, "The power light isn't on." Once you talk to a tech and tell them what the real symptoms are, (Which the guy I spoke with understood, since I described them in American English exactly has I had told Customer Support. He cancelled Customer Support's resolution visit by someone who only knew how to plug it in.), my problem was addressed. (My modem had a broken jack as delivered, and I had some old POS cable that was no good, several bad connectors, and a bad ground.) After that, it was only a few more hours to convince them that my service should be turned on beyond just provisioning of the modem, and assigning an IP through DHCP.
I admit that I was a little slow on the up take when 2nd tier tech asked what I was near. Foolishly, I thought she meant a major intersection. The conversation, frustrating at the time, but amusing, saddening and revealing in hindsight, went something like this:
@Home: "What are you near?"
Me: "71st & Merdian St."
@Home: "No, what city are you near?"
Me: "I'm in Indianapolis."
@Home: "What is that near?"
Me: "It's not near anything, it's a city. You provide me service inside it."
@Home: "I need to know what that is near!"
Me: "IT IS IN THE MIDDLE OF INDIANA."
@Home: "But what is that near?"
Me: "It's in that middle of the state!?!?"
@Home: "But what is nearby to Indiana?"
Me: ".............................."
Me: "Take your pick, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Illinois."
@Home: "Well, we don't actually have facilities in Indiana, you need to be set up in Illinois. We'll have them complete setting up you account. This may take a few hours."
I guess I had trouble thinking that a supposedly intelligent person would know where the states that their customers are in are. Hell, I knew where all the states were in 1st grade! Too much to ask for, geography.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Tylenol is not gonna sue you cause the instructions are available widely - i.e on top of every bottle.
Now if you publish an internal confidential memo on how the tablets dont cure the pain completely, one which hasnt been de-classified, yes they can take action against you
Subject: Customer Credit Calculation
- --------------------------
From: Wesley
Customer Credit Calculation
-----------------------------------------------
------
OperatingProcedures
Subject: Customer Credit Calculation
Date: 6/4/99
Procedure #: 13
The following is a procedure to properly calculate customer credit for
service outages.
When a customer requests credit for a service outage, it is the policy of
Comcast Online to credit the customers account for the period of time the
outage was experienced. Always round up to the next full day.
The process for determining the proper amount to credit a customer will be
based on the customer's total monthly service fee. Once the total monthly
fee is determined, the amount should be divided by 30 to obtain the proper
credit for each day of service interruption. Below are examples.
Scenario 1
4 day service interruption
Basic service of $39.95
Franchise fees of $2.00
Total service is $41.95
$41.95 divided by 30 = $1.40
$1.40 X 4 days = $5.60 credit
Scenario 2
2 and one half day service interruption
Annual service of $399.50
Franchise fees of $19.98
Two multiple IPs at $83.40 each
Franchise fees of $4.17 each
Total annual service is $594.62
$594.62 divided by 12 = $49.55
$49.55 divided by 30 = $1.65
$1.65 X 3 = $4.95 credit
These are guidelines for basic service outage credit. Refer to your
Supervisor for additional assistance if needed.
This corporation is trying to squelch something that affects its customers very much. What your saying here is that corporations don't have to be held responsible for their actions. The customers pay for a service and if its not to their liking and they have no competition to go to, they have a right to complain about it. I know I would if my provider isn't doing what I pay them to do. If companies wouldn't try to bully their customers in to submission, maybe slashdot wouldn't seem like they're taking a hard stance against corporations like @home.
BMaximus
It's not a question of controlling the web -- the commission was roundly praised for its decision not to regulate the industry. Remember, though, that it also ruled that some new media was broadcasting, and thus they have the authority to regulate. Anything resembling radio, TV or video falls under the Broadcast Act even if it's over the Internet. They've simply said they won't do it, granting it an unconditional exemption -- for the time being. There's nothing to say they can't reverse their position of forbearance, though it's unlikely they would ever do so. The feds have also indicated that they consider some level of access a basic service. That might become even stronger a statement when Johnston's broadband task force reports next spring. No one wants the government to begin regulating content, but the Internet is now considered a de facto basic, regulated tele-communications industry -- and ISP subscribers should be able to count on the same consumer protections afforded cable and telephone subscribers.
Now if you publish an internal confidential memo on how the tablets dont cure the pain completely, one which hasnt been de-classified, yes they can take action against you
The only context where "de-classified" makes any sense is when dealing with a government agency. Where specific statute laws apply. "Internal confidential" is effectivly a synonym for "trade secret" when applied to a company.
Also the analogy is poor because medical products tend to be tightly regulated...
Since always... There is nothing in copyright law that requires you to publish. All the law states that the author or copyright holder has control over the publication.
IANAL, but everything is copyrighted with all rights reserved to the author by default. The author has to explicitly give up ownership of the copyright. (I believe this is what the FSF asks you to do with GPL'd code.)
Your Tylenol example is wrongheaded. Tylenol does own the copyright to the text, but since there was no monitary damage or trade secret violation, they probably would not bother suing you. If on the other hand you distributed their marketing strategy for 2001, then they probably would sue.
gwonk.
Subject: RF Troubleshooting
- --------------------------
From: Wesley
RF Troubleshooting
-----------------------------------------------
------
Solution(s): Be sure that the high pass filter is on the entertainment
side of the directional coupler.
Online Installation Check Guide
The following steps should be used as a check list for the installation
for the additional outlet. If there is a problem with the signal to the
modem after the install, refer to the list to diagnose any problems. If
the problem persists, refer to the following section for specific problems
and solutions.
Electrical outlets should be properly grounded (if not inform the
customer).
Verify correct grounding of cable drop (possibly on cold water pipe).
Remove high-pass filters from the tap if present.
No jumpers in the data path should be shorter than two feet (shorter
jumpers could act as an attenuator)
Older negative traps used to block pay channels may not pass the
downstream frequencies (585mhz) and may have to be replaced.
Verify that the high-pass filter is correctly installed on the
entertainment side of the customer's drop.
Attach a bright orange drop tag to identify Comcast@Home customers.
Installation Diagram
Specific RF Problems
Problem: The cable modem light is not lit after the connection is made.
Solution(s):Ensure that a DC-10 coupler is attached to the line. The modem
may be receiving a signal that is too high (+5db), resulting in no signal.
This problem exists when the modem is not receiving the correct signal.
The first step is to make sure that the negative traps have been replaced.
The older negative traps will not allow the required signal to reach the
cable modem.
This situation also occurs if @Home has not provisioned the modem. Contact
@Home and check to make sure the modem has been provisioned. This process
can take about 15 to 20 minutes. If the modem has been provisioned, check
with the TSR if the information on the work order is correct.
Place a signal generator on the modem drop to trace out to the node. If
there is no signal from the node contact the dispatcher and inform of
trouble. A line tech will be needed to check the problem.
Problem: There is a problem receiving a signal upstream, indicated by a
flashing modem light.
Solution(s): Be sure that the high pass filter is on the entertainment
side of the directional coupler.
The problem most likely lies further down the line. First check the drop
leading back to the house with a signal generator. This should be a common
procedure for the A/O installer. If a signal is received from the drop,
the problem may lie in the line extender. A Line Tech should be called to
check if an equalizer is missing in the return path. There might have been
some trouble with the line extender, and the equalizer was not replaced
when a replacement amp was installed. This is not uncommon for systems to
experience when they first turn two-way on. Make sure that the amp is
prepped in both directions.
If the A/O is installing a directional coupler after the ground block, be
sure that the jumper is at least two feet long. Short jumpers at high
frequencies do not mix. This causes the modem to be confused at the signal
it is receiving. Even if the modem indicates a signal lock, the signal may
not be received properly. A symptom of this problem may be time-out errors
when attempting to ping the gateway or DNS address.
Problem The customer's house is the last one off the tap and a modem
signal lock cannot be obtained.
Solution: This is an ongoing problem in the RF side of the installation.
The difficulty is that the signal is not strong enough by the time it
reaches the last house. In addition, the tap block creates attenuation in
the signal, complicating the problem. A line technician is needed to check
the amplifier down the line, and boost the signal strength. If possible,
ending taps should be identified beforehand, and a line tech could
investigate before the install.
Problem: The connection is lost shortly after receiving cable modem signal
lock.
Solution(s): Check the negative traps combinations. Usually traps are used
as a single filter for premium channels like HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and
Disney. Most filter combinations will work at the tap, but there are some
that will prevent the proper frequency from reaching the modem. For online
customers, these channel traps should not be reinstalled at the tap, but
on the entertainment side of the directional coupler.
Check the equipment used for the installation. A bad directional coupler
will stop the signal from reaching the modem. More extreme equipment
failures include bad taps, cable modems, and other connections.
A lot of people are saying that, since @Home says that this information is private, we should respect that.
I'm sorry, but that's a bunch of hogwash. There is only one corporation whose concerns about privacy I must respect, and that's only because I've signed documents saying I'll do just that. With all other coroporations, I can say anything about them I darn well like.
I'm sure that Wesley signed no such NDA with @Home. Unless he himself obtained the documents illegally--and I see no reason to suspect that he broke into @Home networks or ofices; after all, why would he need tech support if he could do that--then the person who violated @Home's trade secrets (even assuming that they qualify as trade secrets) is the one guilty of something.
Remember, it's the corporation's responsibility to prevent proprietary information from leaking in the first place, not our responsibility to look the other way.
Look at it this way: If somebody's suspenders break while they're walking down the street, they could be found guilty of indecent exposure; you're not going to be found guilty of invasion of privacy if you look. Good manners dictate you look the other way...but I'll show good manners to corporations when they start behaving at least as mature as pre-teens.
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
how is roadrunner's service compared to most @home ones...i've heard some horror stories with it too. Then again most people don't have a choice in which cable company to use because of non-competitive agreements. It's either @home or AOL/Time-Warner/Roadrunner. sigh...
I have fought more with Videon@Home people then any other tech support service I have ever dealt with. Originaly, they used a local ISP for access, and supplied hardware for a system called "Wave". This was great for me cuz i had shell access on the same ISP i've been using for 7 years. However, when people started to sign up, they realized it'd be cheaper to provide crappier service through @Home, using their standards and tech-support, then do it right. I've been suffering ever since. Connection speeds have dropped an average of 65%, news is now censored, and its down half the time. Oh, and to add to the pain, they forced everyone to change email addresses. It would cost them nothing to maintain the wave email addresses, rather then getting an AOLish @home address (ie, you6948@home.com).
What really hurts is that business customers can maintain the old service, but at double the cost. They want to charge me the business rate just to keep my email address. DSL is around here, but its horribly unreliable. What the broadband industry needs is competition. The CRTC made a ruling saying that even privately-held cable networks can be used by other ISP's, so i'm thinging how hard could it be to piggy-back a legit cable ISP on their network? I don't even have to make money on it, just as long as i get decent bandwidth... here's the link to the ruling - http://www.crtc.gc.ca/a rch ive/Decisions/1999/DT99-11.htm
-MR
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
If they sue, then they can never get the documents out of the public's view, since a court trial from a big bad corporation against a poor little customer is bound to attract a lot of unwanted journalists' attention. It's usually just easier and less damaging for the company to issue idle threats against their enemy and whoever is supporting them. Besides, in civil trials, you are not innocent until proven guilty, and intellectual property violations are almost always civil suits instead of criminal. In fact, some of them place the burden of proof on the defendant, to prove you did nothing wrong.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Yeah, home is claiming that documents that they provide to anyone are trade secrets.
Even when there is a copyright, there is some copying permitted by the fair use doctrine.
Publishing trade secrets would not be considered fair use.
If I signed a non-disclosure agreement with a company and then published the schematics of their latest, greatest widget, I would not be protected by fair use.
If I broke into a company, stole documents, and published them, I would not be protected by fair use.
If the court decides these documents are trade secrets this guy is SOL.
Of course, the CRTC sets the rules under which they operate. They have to play (relatively) nice.
For the record, the original poster missed Cogeco@home.
They are only smart if they've just run 'defrag' too, else that would likely be the reason they DNS server isn't working.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
I agree but I think where the media is concerned the government is quite strange. Our Canadian Content legislation in media is insulting and overbaring. I know we have yet to see an equivalent on the internet, and I hope Mr. Chretian realizes that the troubles the CRTC faces with satelitte dishes (imagine going to jail because you watch american stations) would pale in comparison to the troubles it would see with the net.
illenium.net - ultimate sk8 shop online
Is anybody else getting a ridiculous amount of spam from gstreet245@excite.com? I have complained to abuse@excite.com no less than 3 times, and it still keeps rolling in.
Is this excite themselves spamming me? One more, and I'll just put a rule on my mailserver, but this is really getting annoying.
That is pure nonsense. ANYTHING that is written automatically has a level of copyright available to it. If a work is created "for hire" like a memo written by an employee of a firm, you can safely assume that it owned by the company, and that the company holds the copyright to the document. End of discussion!
Have you compiled your kernel today??
And like The Blob, they seem to be reforming into larger and larger entities anyway.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
--
Dear sir,
I deeply resent your implication that Canadians are polite. Some of us can be disturbingly rude at times.
Why, just 2 months ago I saw a man leave a mere 5% tip! It was at a McDonald's, but that's no excuse. If anything, the low price of the food should oblige one to increase the percentage rate of the tip.
Thank you for listening, I hope I have cleared up your misconceptions about Canadians.
Regards,
A. Canuck
--------
I'm not sure if I have them all, but we have posted a mirror up @ ct2600.org/athome/
It's very interesting information. I'll tell you that much.
If anyone has any more information on documents we are missing, please let me know.
DO NOT TAUNT THE OCTOPUS
You don't always have the right to refuse to do business. For example, you can't refuse to do business because of someone's race, religion, etc. Also, as others have pointed out, when you are monopoly you have to prove a clear reason to not do business, e.g. the person in question has the credit history from hell.
-- Will program for bandwidth
The DMCA is law. It was passed. They have the right to use it. What's wrong with that?
Your statement makes as much sense as saying that someone is evil for seeking punitive damages for pain and suffering because somebody took a baseball bat and shattered their arm.
That being said, he's as little a journalist as you can get, and his problem is not having a team of corporate lawyers out to back him.
Or one or more largish organisations who will back him up, one advantages the professional journalist tends to have.
Tech: Well, there's your problem. Our service is incompatible with scandisk. Your computer can no longer be used with our system, please get a new one and call back. Goodbye [click]
--------
I love Slashdot (I'm here aren't I?) but I'm getting really tired of this whole "All corporations are evil!" mentality. The guy published some of their internal documents. That's their private stuff. If someone published your old mash notes to your significant other, you'd probably want to squash it too. This is not a case of an independent reporter being "silenced" by the evil MegaCorp(tm), it's about some guy who took internal company documents and posted them publicly.
For crying out loud, let companies have some rights, okay?
Got Rhinos?
I'm reminded of the Pentagon Papers case, in which the US Supreme Court found in favor of (if memory serves; might have been the Post, but I don't think so...) the NY Times when the Feds came after it for publishing classified documents provided by Ellsworth (IIRC. CRP Plumbers even tried to burglarize Ellsworth's psychiatrist's office if memory serves...).
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Hey. Check out dslreports.com as it's a place to post rants and rate ISPS (Not just dsl) , here is the @Home Page
.sig --
--
Others have addressed the issue of copyright. As far as confidentiality is concerned, if Wesley has not under an agreement, he is under no obligation to preserve the confidentiality of anything. The person who gave the documents to Wesley may have violated some kind of agreement, but Wesley probably has not.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Speaking of which, Verizon's been giving me a near-250 ping to the 'net lately. That's as bad as a 56k modem. I prefer an intermittently-working fast network over a slow-as-hell network that doesn't go down.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
In my area, DSL isn't available, and the only cable modem service I can get is @Home. I'm about to sign up with them, and if they treat me like crap, what can I do about it? I have to either deal with them or not have high speed access, and they know it. So until they have some real competition, I doubt that they'll be pouring much cash money into customer service.
"I am a cipher, a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce" -Jimmy James
The vast majority of calls to tech support are from people too stupid to comprehend the fucking manual even if they bothered to read it.
I can believe that. But when I call and say "Your router with ip address 24.2.7.2 is down", I shouldn't get someone asking me what version of the browser I'm running, trying to ping my box, etc. There needs to be on what to do when people call who know what they're talking about.
I spent over an hour on the phone one evening arguing with a moron named "Andy" (I have his email address, don't tempt me to post it) and his dimwitted supervisor about one of their misconfigured routers. When they finally turned it in to the NOC, it was fixed within minutes. They are amazing in their stupidity...
Michael
Do you have ESP?
Remember, @Home is owned by AT&T, those fun people who were talking about charging online merchants a fraction of any sale to a AT&T Broadband customer, and even for just "delivering" those customers to the merchant in the first place.
I believe that AT&T/@Home has a vritual monopoly in the US on the cable modem lines. (My cable modem is certinaly AT&T/@Home, and it makes me think I should be posting this anonymously... oh well.) If it weren't for DSL, it would be a virtual broadband monopoly. Is there a lesson in here somewhere? A lesson that's been learned over and over again in history?
If we had other cable companies to get our cable modem service from, we wouldn't have to endlessly bitch about @Home. From the other end, @Home would have to clean up their act to keep their customers. I know I've swicthed phone-in ISPs several times, and have found one which has service and capabilities that really match what I want. If we can't vote with our feet, but can only bitch against people who have weird "intellectual property" laws to stifle that bitching, we're hosed.
-Rob
For almost 18 months I was the lead technician at a small startup broadband ISP called (of all things) "BroadbandNOW". (If you're a current- or ex-customer, please don't flame me...) Speaking from experience having to deal with @Home on a semi-regular basis, I can tell you that @Home's L2 and L3 support are only marginally brighter than their L1 support.
Of course, as someone above said, it's not easy to get good support techs with the job market like it is. I had one tech that worked for me whose favorite thing to do was to tell the customer to reinstall windows, and if they didn't have their Win CD, he wouldn't help them....I couldn't fire him because there was no-one else to hire. Whaddaya do?? (He was fired eventually, but not for being incompetent....)
Speaking of @Home, though I have had some less than stellar conversations with their support organization. For example - It took me almost an hour to explain to one of their L2 techs why there was 'excessive' latency (85ms) between one of our customers and one of their customers that were only 3 blocks from each other.............. um... hello??? Ummmm...different networks??? ummm...not excessive @ 85ms... Duh...
At the same time, it's not really easy to detemine which of your customers are experienced sysadmins or network admins, and which are idiots that just know the WORD sysadmin. I have also run into a lot of customers that CLAIM to have all sorts of certs. (CCNA's that don't know a router from a switch, MCSE's that can't figure out how to set NT up for DHCP, and one particular IRIX user ("well I'm not a user, I'm a sysadmin dammit!") who couldn't get proclaim (IRIX DHCP client) to work.....even with step-by-step instructions, and I mean BABY steps.) Again, whaddaya do?
To be honest though, when you're supporting a customer over the phone with a Cablemodem, you really have to start from scratch every time (until, that is the customer knows the drill well enough to tell you exactly what they did before calling). This is due to one simple fact....CUSTOMERS LIE! All the time...daily...hourly...especially when they don't want support to know that they're running a NAT box connected to 5 or 6 other machines. Even better are the ones that will lie to you WITHOUT the NAT box.
Tech: "how many computers do you have attached to your modem?"
Customer: "Um......one"
Tech: "really?"
Cust: "Yup, just the one."
Tech: "Wow, that's cool, because the ARP cache on your modem shows 6 separate machines!!!"
Cust: "Doh!!!!!"
In all cases like the aforementioned, I like the idea of the "remote slapper", or even better, a small device that will deliver a taser-like blast of electricity to the end-user's ear when support determines that the problem is a PEBCAK error (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard).
One 'tiny' more thing.....if @Home is using DMCA as justification, then IMHO shouldn't the ACLU work PDQ to get the SCoUSA to overturn this BS law ASAP??? Just asking...
=====
== That terrible green-green grass, and violent blooms of flower dresses, and afternoons that make me sleepy.==
I'm using @Home in Burlington (work in Glendora), with no problems (except for a hub of mine that overhearts).
-Kris
The smart caller:
Tech: "When is the last time you ran a thorough scan disk on your computer?"
Caller: Just finished.
God forbid that customers should actually know under what circumstances they are eligible for a refund. Or what it might take to get past the first couple of clueless tiers of tech support.
It'd be nice if @Home spent its money trying to improve their support instead of using it to feed the lawyers to crush their own customers.
I think you're confusing freedom with handout.
Freedom for corporations, and freedom for individuals both come down to the same thing. Freedom for two independant parties to form a contract on whatever terms they consider to be acceptable. Employees have a right to unionize. They have a right to leave work if they have to take care of a family member. But people also have the right to sign a contract agreeing not to unionize or take family leave, and corporations (which, in case you've forgotten, are composed of people) have the right to refuse to hire anyone who won't sign the aforementioned contract. Damn right the constitution only applies to the government. The government is the only entity that needs constitutional limits, because the government is the only entity that has an inherent right to deprive other entities of their rights in the name of preserving the rights of others. If OmniMegaCorp (tm) could arrest me and throw me in jail, then they'd need to have constitutional restrictions requiring them to give me a fair trial. But they can't. The worst they can (legally) do to me is sue me, and for that they need to go through the courts, which are guided by the laws passed by the government, which is restricted by the constitution.</KarmaWhore>
--
--
We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
Here is a little story, about three weeks old, about my experience with my friendly @home ISP.
OK, I cannot connect to the 'net. First reaction: ping the gateway. It responds. Nose around -- a-ha, it's their DNS servers that are down.
Wait a day, they're still down. Fine, I find myself a public DNS server, plug it in and I have a working 'net connection. Still, I want the @home DNS servers back...
Call the customer service. Spend some time explaining to the first "tech" what DNS is and why it's useful. Got some info: he can ping the servers, the're up. So it's likely a routing or a connectivity problem. However he cannot fix anything or actually do anything because his database is down. Oh well, call tomorrow.
Tomorrow: rinse, repeat.
Next day: rinse, repeat. But I acquired a useful piece of knowledge: whey you get your first 'tech' say the magic words "escalate me to tier two". It generally works and I don't have to spend half an hour explaining what a nameserver is and why do I need it.
Next day: talking to tier two guy. He has no clue what's wrong. Tries to reset my cable modem from their end, tell me to call tomorrow.
Next day: finally somebody who seems to have a clue. He checks some permissions on some routers, updates them, tells me that it'll take a couple of hours for the changes to propagate and I'll be fine.
Next day: he lied. DNS servers are still not pingable from me (BTW, no machine on that subnet is pingable, a clear routing problem). Call again, bitch and whine, be told that there is nothing more they can do.
Next day: Going through the usual rigamarole when the tech notices that I do my pings, etc. not from a Windows machine. The fact that it's OpenBSD throws him off stride in a major way. I spend half an hour arguing with him (he: we don't support non-Windows OS; I: I don't want you to support my OS, I want you to fix your routing problems). So he goes off to find a supervisor, returns, tells me that no, they don't support anything.
OK, I offer him to reboot the machine to Windows (it's dual-boot) if he thinks (hah!) it will help. He goes away to consult with a supervisor again and returns to tell me that they don't support dual-boot machines. At this point my jaw starts bouncing on the floor and I spend some time trying to understand his logic. His (that is, his supervisor's) position was: Wipe out the hard drive, reinstall Windows, and then we'll support it!!! At that point I gave up trying to communicate.
Next day: magically, the DNS servers appeared back, I could ping them, access them, etc. I have no doubt that somebody accidentally/normally/for-some-other-purpose just rebooted something and as a side-effect fixed my routing problem.
Do I like @home customer service? Guess!...
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Fair use does not allow you to publish something that is 99% copywrited material except for the sentance, "Hey, look what I found..." inserted at the beginning.
This is essencially what this guy did. He did not write an article that contained quotes from the document, etc. He published the actual copyrighted document...
-- Erv Walter
I haven't heard of a single cable access provider yet portrayed in a good light, and it isn't because of shoddy hardware, or bad connections (thought they have those from time to time too), Almost every complaint I hear is about their Wetware, most notably their Tech. I realize it's probably not their tech, but the folks in the next couple of levels up, but it seems to me that when the Cable folk were figuring out ways to compete with the already intrenched telco's, they forgot one tensy little detail, you have to stop treating the customers like rodents!!! With cable tv, there isn't a lot to screw up, so they could get away with not talking to their customers, and treating them like idiots if they did manage to screw up. But this is a rather more complicated affair.
I hate to say it, but perhaps some of that tech money should have gone to some of the touchy feely Customer Service types.
Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
Yello-- I work in Glendora, and a fellow coworker (who lives in Blackwood) of mine said her service was aweful. Outages, lack of DNS, etc. Last I heard, she was getting ready to go DSL.
-Kris
I too am an often maligned Technician for a local ISP, and the customer is not always at fault. Alot of times it is simply due to inexperience, and unclear instructions. Not giving the customer the benefit of the doubt is a sure fire way to ensure you are seeking employment in the near future, AND a quick way to drive yourself to drink. Smile, we are not curing cancer...just the standard Windows bugs!
and to those who wonder why I simply say...
And it was the worst service ever. I remember calling their tech support (me being a former (phone) tech support person myself) and telling them the issues I was having, which I knew to be all their fault from my work experience. I told the guy "Listen, my job is your job. I do the same thing you do. Almost to the T, but for a different company, there's no way this is my fault." They kept telling me it was my problem, my fault, etc.
What I really don't understand is how some people have ZERO problems with @Home. NONE! I don't get that. My cable modem when I had @Home was up for maybe an hour a day tops. I switched ISP's. @HOME SUCKS!!!
[mrzer0]
As far as the publishing of internal documents, I think that it's just wrong to do it. Corporate property is not owned by the public[...] especially when they are in such a competitive industry. "
Cable companies are not in a competitive industry: in fact, they're legally monopolies, because they are usually the only people authorized to attach their cables to monopoly-provided telephone poles.
They are specifically regulated monopolies in Canada.This means that many of their documents cannot be protected againts public discussion: as a result of this, for example, they can't have them "sealed" in a court case for compeditive reasons.
davecb@spamcop.net
So somebody posting internal documents about some corporation makes them a critic?
Imagine for a moment if documents leaked out from @Home were published in the New York Times. Now, if @home wanted to go after them, they'd have to file a lawsuit and go through numerous hurdles. Even if their suit was successful, the paper was printed, the impact was made. The printing can't be undone and it may be argued that is shouldn't be undone. The legal consequence is paid by the paper for this but what is done is done.
In this case though, @home just has to have a lawyer type up a letter and e-mail it to a few places to have this shut down. There's no judicial order, or oversight of any kind. The yanking of the document was purely based on the whims of the corporation. Unless the ISP feels some moral obligation they aren't going to fight it. And frankly moral obligations don't boost sagging stock prices.
Personally I think that if @home feels they have been so wronged by this, they should go after the guy who did it in court. What he did may or may not be wrong and in doing so he should be aware that he is opening himself up to legal risk. So let that play out. Take it to court and see what the court says. We are giving away the right of judicial review to a bunch of lawyers and word processors. That's a VERY dangerous precedent.
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This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
The Connecticut Hackers Group has posted mirrors of some or all of the documents.
News on ct2600.org and mirrors @ ct2600.org/athome.
If I took out your appendix, would that make me a doctor?
No, but it would make you a surgeon.
Were he a journalist and he did steal internal documents, he'd have no special protection from the law.
No, but if the stolen documents revealed unethical behaviour, and the public had a need to know, that could be used as extenuating circumstances.
Of course, as a journalist he should have made an effort to inform as many people as possible. Posting it on a free web server is not the best way to do this. There's nothing morally wrong about it, its just a pathetic thing to do. Posting it on an @home newsgroup is more sensible, but @home control that. Of course, a new service that people actually read (for example Slashdot or infoworld) would probably be more than happy to publish.
I am posting from work, because my @Home connection has been sporadic for 3 days now.
I know what they are doing with the cable system in my area, I have friends on the "inside" as it were. They sent out a Email to all the people in our area annoucing that they would be performing "upgrades" to our service. I found out that this is not exactly true. One of the things that they are doing is DECREASING the overall speed in our area. This is called an upgrade. They are doing this because more and more people in our area are signing on, and they need to preserve bandwith for everyone. As a sysadmin I can understand this. I cannot condone calling this an upgrade to my service however.
I know one of the former tech support Guru's for my area (left for better pay and respect) and I got a good deal of some of the internal doings at @home. I would say that the main problem is that the individual companies tied to @home are still running with the "cable TV mentality".
It seems that the managers in my area are quite familiar with Cable TV, but are totally clueless when it comes to the internet. My friend (no, I will not give out his name thank you very much) told me horror stories of how members of upper management would dictate how certain server upgrades or changes were to be made, yet they have no networking experience of any kind.
There are both good and bad people in my area. Some really know their stuff, some dont. It just seems like the dilbert principle applies here. The least capable people are promoted to management where they can do the least harm.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Well I sure wouldn't want their cancer causing documents anywhere near me. :)
Seriously though, it's a good point, and the same basic idea I was talking about in another post I just made. Sometimes consumers have a right to know regardless of whether the company likes it or not and regardless of copyright, trade secret, or other laws.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Did they wait til the end of the period? Doesn't sound like they did.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
the one thing in that article i disagree with is where it says labor costs are increasing. while certainly there is a tight market in nifty high tech areas, most service or product techs are not in this category. 'real wages' have been decreasing steadily for most workers. at the same time profits and stock prices are rocketing. the claim that customer service can't be afforded is probably untrue. what is true is that it's not worth any money to them to have good service. why does this surprise people? all that matters to a corporation is the bottom line, just the way it should be. this might make people think government should be involved in doing things like breaking up monopolies. but screw the government. companies should screw people who don't give them a lot of money and thats all there is to it.
Last year I decided I was sick of connecting with a modem, so I checked out www.home.com. It said I could get service here, so I filled out the form with all my personal information, credit card, etc. They said they'd call back within a week.
A few weeks later, still no response. So I called @Home and they said "sorry, we don't have service in your area yet, try back in a couple weeks."
Of course, in a couple weeks, they still didn't have service here. And they don't now, months later. We have no problem getting AT&T cable, and we could probably even get that worthless "digital cable" if we wanted. But although the rest of the city has cable internet service, we still don't.
]$`};L(;/proc);[I(;];<C{;};1S[;`\/while=1E1L[`\p roc{>=
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
They do have a monopoly on *cable internet access*, which is exactly the point.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
The vast majority of calls to tech support are from people too stupid to comprehend the fucking manual even if they bothered to read it.
--
--
You are a fucking moron.
Isn't it about time for all these victimized corporations to act according to established principles of innocent until preved guilty?
They will only do that if they have no other option
How about one of the poor victimized corporation suing or getting criminal charges filed?
Because then they'd have to convince people who have utterly no reason to be sympathetic to their position.
"Your honour we did something stupid and the defendant caught us doing it..." isn't going to make the best of cases, even if they don't get a judge who decides that it's lame enough to be worth fining the plaintiff for contempt of court.
"Using port 25" does not magically eat bandwidth. Doing any kind of work from home does not automatically eat bandwidth. If they want to limit the heavy users they should implement some traffic-shaping system so that the actual people who are abusing the connection are appropriately limited, not people who happen to be using a particular IP port.
Why does "port 25" equal "bandwidth heavy user who should pay more" while the local script kiddie who spends 10 hours a day downloading mp3z/warez is OK?
The real reason they are blocking these ports is simply to have an excuse to charge more money where they think they can get away with it. Don't be fooled by their "saving the bandwidth" arguments.
I use Telocity in my apartment, and it is very good. They rarely have downtime, and when they do, I call and bitch and they fix it quickly (usually a router down somewhere preventing me from getting to certain sites.) Also, they don't care if you run a server, use NAT to connect your network to the internet, use linux, bsd, or whatever OS you want, as long as you have a clue and don't ask them for help with anything other than the connection from your house to their network.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
Here is the link to the post on Deja.
But *every individual* and *every company* has the right to refuse service.
I think this has already been established as false. If your company has a monopoly on some service (whether government granted as the cable companies are, or through some other method), you play by different rules. This usually includes the obligation to provide service to anyone who wants it and is willing to pay for it.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
The problem with this idea is that you have to PAY the guy who knows what he's talking about. And pay him well, since said tech could easily go out and get a much better job for much more money if he knows that much stuff. And becides, working tech support is about the lowest rank in the computer field. I used to do tech support, and after a few months of getting calls like 'why can't I use my modem! Fix it!' I wanted to reach through and strangle the people on the other side.
According to @Home,
"These are our confidential and copyrighted documents shared with our cable partners and not intended for the public."
What reason do we have to disbelieve them? If Wesley could claim freedom of speech, it's trumped by confidentiality and copyright law!
Surely you must admit the law is not on Wesley's side.
Unless, perhaps, he was a journalist, and was acting under freedom of the press. Is he a journalist, or a speaker? Seems like a speaker to me. Still, noone should doubt where the law stands. (Firmly on the side of those with the money).
-Ben
I have Comcast cable and @home cable modem service. Well my modem was hit by lightening and ceased to function. I knew nothing was wrong with my network setup because a) I am not retarted, and b) It had been working fine until then. To make sure that my network was not to blame I hooked the modem up to just one computer and set it up as was done originally by Comcast. No service and the lights on the Modem did the same thing, just blinking and they could not connect. I called tech support they told me how to fool around with it nothing worked I made an appointment for someone to come look at it. The appointment was a week later. I explained that that was too long and not going to work, they said oh well. The next morning I took myself and the modem to Comcast waited in line forever until I got to the desk clerk where upon I told her I needed to speak to a @home tech. I told the tech the modem was dead could I have another. "No sorry sir these things never break it is your fault." This is what I got, and a lame excuse, "All our techs are busy the best I can do is the appointment you already have." I was very pissed off. I waited my week very patiently and when the tech came she just installed a new modem plugged it in and after it had cycled it worked fine. I told her that I had attempted to get a new modem myself to save her from having to come out and she thought it was stupid that the represenative had done what he had. In conclusion Comcast management is not very smart and knows nothing. The only people I trust are the ones that drive the repair vans.
f libertarians had their way, and there was no local government to encourage other companies to attempt to service the area, would you be even worse off?
This is obviously a troll, but since it is also outright disinformation someone needs to speak up.
I am not a Libertarian, although I will be voting Libertarian in this election.
However, your assertion that libertarians don't want any lcoal government is untrue. They wish to return FEDERAL government to a form which operates within the parameters specificed by the US Constitution. The party does not advocate eliminating local governemt (as the constitution does not prohibit it).
There may be some individuals who do advocate little or no local government, but for each person who does you'll find another individual who does not.
Finally, you assume a government is necessary to "encourage other companies to attempt a service in the area." That assumption makes about as much sense as assuming we need need a government to encourage companies to offer us Science Fiction programming, as opposed to, say, Lyric Opera. We need government for neither -- we as individuals and as customers can decide (and in this instance the free market really is the best arbiter).
And yes, if you live on the Ass of the World you'll probably have to lay your own cable, just as our ancesters a hundred years ago living on remote ranches often had to make their own roads and dig their own wells. Its part and parcel to living in the middle of nowhere, so you'd better get used to it. What makes you think you have a right to have the cost of your service subsidized by others?
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I was getting errors trying to connect through @Home, so I set up a script to ping and log the DSN and Gateway servers.
The servers go down EVERY DAY. Sometimes 3-4 times per day. Downtime duration is anything from 3 minutes to 1/2 hour.
And this is only on my segment....
- - - - - - - - - - -
I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
Anything I type and publish is copyrighted. If you republish it in it entirety then you have violated my copyright.
There are fair-use clauses that say you can use excerpts in your own original writing, but if you take my entire work and republish it you have violated my copyright.
The law doesn't really care if it's a news article or an internal technical document.
Now, that said, I like what this fellow did in exposing @Home. But he might have been better off just pulling excerpts. That is a more defensible tactic.
Does anyone have these posts archived on a server somewhere. I'd be more than happy to mirror them for the /. community. Oh wait. I don't want them to yank my cable modem...
Truth be told, they have a strangle hold on the average consumer broadband market until the phone companies can get ADSL and DSL to market in larger areas for a better price. As soon as they do, I'm jumping ship.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
Only individuals. Corporations exist at the behest of the state and thus must answer to it. Individuals exist because they are born, and are not dependent on the state to justify the existence or exercise of their rights.
Fuck Slashdot
But if the extent of their 'inethical [sic] behavior' is simply manufacturing inferior products, they have every right to do so. And you have every right to not buy their products."
What about the right of people to comment of the products though?
So I don't really get the beef people have with them. Of course Canada doesn't have any DMCA but I am sure if you give Jean some time he'll come up with legislation that will make the DMCA look like a walk in park.
I mean we can't see english signs in quebec, french in Sault Ste Marie, so why should we have the freedom of using the net freely? You sure @home isn't run by Canadians?
illenium.net - ultimate sk8 shop online
Companies have rights not to have their stuff fraudulently or illegally posted by someone cracking (electronically or by social engineering) their heirarchy and obtaining documents they never had a right to see or by posting those they had a right to see but not to distribute or publish.
So Rogers should be mad.
Consumers, upon discovering this policy, should be mad but unsurprised. Unlike most people, I've had good luck with Tech Support staff, but mostly because I've worked as one in situations that make Rogers problems look like a minor itch not worthy of scratching and know how to talk to them. That helps a lot.
A lot of people treat tech support staff like dirt and display abysmal manners and that won't generally be too useful in getting them to go "over and above the call" for you. Treat people with respect and you'll generally get more done - and if that fails, you've always got the other option.
The question of whether the policy should be allowed to be private or not is fully divorced from the right or wrong of these documents being posted. I personally think customer support policies and privacy policies should be _legally_mandated_ to appear verbatim internally and externally and companies should be forced to hew to them (and not, as with most privacy policies, able to change them at a whim and retroactively). BUT THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE.
This fellow was probably in the wrong. If he was, he should be punished.
Rogers is not in the wrong legally, but is morally reprehensible. They should be discouraged by hitting them in the pocket book and making such things publicly known - bad press won't make them happy.
Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.
There was never a genius without a tincture of madness.
Aris
I've returned consumer devices that required reading the manual: it's a sign of poor design and poor value.
Why do you have a computer?
It is ridiculous to say that everything a consumer picks up should be easy to use without reading a manual. That's a dreamworld mentality for people who don't believe they should ever have to learn anything.
Now we have to put out substandard merchandise with tons of overhead costs to ensure that John Q. Public can figure out how to do complex tasks without any knowledge whatsoever. Don't slow down technology!
If you aren't willing to pick up the manual, to have any idea of how to actually operate the merchandise, and expect that the world should revolve around you, then you become part of the problem.
That's the justification of the users to not read manuals ~ 'I shouldn't have to read a manual, I just paid $xxx for this merchandise!' If you purchased nuclear waste and were contaminated because you didn't read the documents on properly shielding yourself from radiation, who is at fault? The person who sold the waste, or you?
It is the responsibility of the consumer to be educated when living in the consumer market. In the case of @Home service, it is the consumer's right to this type of information. The OS's aren't tricky, and the providers of the service should have a checklist to go through step by step to determine if the system is set up correctly. If they cannot provide consumers with the service they claim to provide, then they should not be in the business. In a consumer market, this is the only way they should be able to survive.
Just replying to a bunch of posts above. most people seem to have the idea that trade secrets are protected by law. They are not. If you found the secret recipe for Coca Cola sitting there on the street then you can publish it whereever you want. You could make T-Shirts or post flyers or indeed put it up on the internet. Please read Cyber Rights put out by the EFF before making stupid comments like this is stealing. The only thing that he could be busted for legally is IF he stole the paper he would be liable for the .005$ cost of the paper and ink. Not the data on that as it is the corporations responsibility to protect that data.
Pithy, yet ultimately meaningless, phrase expressed with gusto!
Everything is copyrightable, unless it is written by a government agency or employee in the course of carrying out his duties. Now, how enforceable the copyright is varies from case to case depending on several factors such as whether the copyright owner's ability to profit from the copyrighted work was damaged due to the alleged infringement or whether the infringement reduced the market for the copyrighted work, etc. I don't think those sorts of things apply in this situation. That means they will probably fall back on trade secret law, which may or may not apply, depending on how he managed to get ahold of the documents and whether a court decides that they are, in fact, proctected by trade secret laws.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
About three years ago, GTE debuted "WorldWind", their "amazingly fast" cable modem service at my area. Speeds were limited to 128kbit/sec download. Rate was $80/month. @Home already had their 300kBYTE/sec service in many towns at this time. Same with MediaOne, etc. Customer service was nonexistant at GTE.
I had a web page up that showed traceroute data, bandwidth measuring data, and e-mails I had received from GTE's support department, and response from other people in the same area with the same problems (and lack of service).
After a few months they shut down my account and blacklisted my ADDRESS. (not just my name, my whole address. Nobody who lives at my house will EVER get service).
About a year after my blacklisting, they opened up the veritable bandwidth pipes. Everyone was downloading stuff at 100kBYTE/sec+. With one catch: all common services ports were blocked. Oops.
So I got DSL, and all is happy. No blocked ports, reverse DNS, Class C all to myself (routed subnet), etc, etc. Sendmail, apache, NET8, it's all running.
Get DSL.
- Mike Hughes
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
For those who likes to believe @Home gives you an "always on" connection, go elsewhere.
I've been using DSL last year and switch to @Home 2 months ago just for the sake of trying. Man did I make the wrong decision. _EVERYDAY_, for a few minutes to several hours, the network is down.
My record is 26 hours 40 minutes. Go figure. 90% of the swearwords I've used in these 2 months are @Home-induced.
I'm sure everyone has heard all sorts of stories about @home but I thought I'd chip in mine:
First, when their dhcp server went down I called their tech support and was informed that I needed to reset my modem, when that didn't help they told me they refuse to support my service because I was *paying* them for multiple ip addresses.
Second, when my IPMASQ server was compromised the bstrds used my box to attack some other machine. I was informed by @home that they would terminate my service if I didn't explain why I was attempting all these ftp connections. When I explained what was happening and asked for their logs so I could figure out who was doing this they totally refused o cooperate. Now I have videon, it's actually fast.
That's a totally unfair comment, not to mention a silly one. How about anyone who wants high speed access and not a 56K dialup connection. Real geeks want speed, too!
This guy obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. Unlike AOL or WebTV, you can use @Home without the front-end crap. Personally, I use @Home with my Linux box and it works great (except when it doesn't, such is @Home or any other cable company for that matter having downtimes). I'm not limited by WebTV constaints at all.
RTFM ~ why? Because not everyone has the same knowledge base. Because while one person may intuitively figure out every little part of a product, another may not have a clue. If you didn't create it, there will be at least some level of functionality you are not familiar with.
Companies creating and distributing products (software, refrigerators, lightbulbs, dryers, etc) have fundamental differences. (ie most, if not all, lightbulb manufacturers do not have people on the line to tell you to turn the bulb clockwise to screw it in). If you do not know how to use one of these items and cannot just figure it out, what do you do? Ask someone a question, right? Is it intuitive to remove the lint from the dryer lint-tray, or are we educated on the procedure at some point? Everything on the user end depends on some type of education, whether by self, example, or documentation. Maybe other people have asked the same type of questions, and maybe these Q&A's have been collected somewhere... like the troubleshooting portion of the Manual. Or perhaps you would like to do something in particular with a piece of merchandise, like plot a graph or set the time on your new talking watch... where would those instructions be? Perhaps in the Manual. RTFM.
<sarcasm>"Damn that Timex company, how should I have known you have to pull the watch dial out half-way to set the date? They should put a label sticker on that thing!"</sarcasm>
Consumers have the right to go elsewhere. That isn't an issue. The point is that the buyer is responsible for the purchase, not the company that made the product. If support services are supplied by the manufacturer, the support should be step by step based on the problems and the circumstances. Unfortunately, this has to start with "is it plugged in? is the monitor connected to the computer?" because there are people buying things they know nothing about and blame companies for their own ignorance while there is a manual detailing what to do right in front of them. They even put out "Quick-start" instructions now for people that don't touch the manual just to give them some quick insight. That step alone probably saved the need for thousands of support calls. Heaven forbid a consumer might have to crack the manual open and look at the table of contents for 'Assembly Instructions'.
Ease of use is subjective. For those willing to learn why and how something operates, the device-type familiarity and intuitive factor grows. For those who are not, they should consider things more wisely before they make a purchase. If you don't have electricity, why buy a lightbulb? If you don't know you bought a two-sided puzzle with different pictures on each side and can't seem to put it together, is it your fault? Of course, you bought it and didn't read the box.
If one cannot achieve a desired end using a software product, one must either learn how to achieve the results (ie read the documentation) or use a different piece of software. If a particular piece of software is easier to use, or is cheaper, it will be more widely implemented by consumers [be it by their personal choice or the choice of the company they work for]. The same goes for a lamp, a desk, a dishwasher, or anything else.
The economics of the situation dictate consumer behaviour. If having a stable e-commerce system requires a certain OS or a certain application package, one must weigh whether they desire user simplicity or a strong successful information infrastructure against cost. It may not be interesting to learn about, but if one is willing to drop that kind of investment into a product, one must be willing to take responsibility to see that the product is implemented and utilized properly.
In the final analysis, the end user (of any merchandise) is solely responsible for implementation and proper operation. Economics may play in this area, but don't believe that companies are responsible for our actions just because we give them our money. We make the choice, whether or not we know what to do from there is up to us.
RTFM is a way of life because not everyone has the same technology background, not because companies make products that require a time investment. Documentation has nothing to do with poor design. Documentation is the collected operational information regarding the product. If you can't use your toaster because it's just too complex, get a simpler toaster. If you can't use a computer because you won't take the time to learn how, don't use the computer. If your dryer breaks because you didn't know to empty the lint-tray, maybe you shouldn't own a dryer. How were you supposed to know? RTFM.
It is a consumer market, and the educated consumer will always be able to do more with a product than the uneducated consumer. How do you know which company's product you should buy? Consumer Reports might help... but that would require tedious reading. Perhaps some other form of research... no, wait, that would consume time. Maybe the preferred method is to buy and return over and over again until one finds just the right match for one's understanding abilities.
Sometimes it isn't all about the pricetag and intuitive usablility. It is always about a means to a end. If a inferior cheaper product is all you need, that is what you will get. If a superior, more expensive, more complicated product is what you need, then that is what you will get.
Excuse me while I puke. Your defense of a company's right to "privacy" is digusting.
While companies are certainly afforded the right to keep certain information confidential in order to sustain a competitive market, they should not be allowed to hide abusive policies that are designed to squeeze the last penny out of their customers.
Isn't it about time for all these victimized corporations to act according to established principles of innocent until preved guilty? How about one of the poor victimized corporation suing or getting criminal charges filed? If these internal papers were so important, why don't they prove it?
Don't say the papers weren't important enough. They apparently were only important enough to smash some helpless customer in a most cowardly fashion. I say if it's not important enough to file charges or sue, then it's not important enough to act on, period.
--
Infuriate left and right
The Libertarian Party would most definitely support the right of the people to comment on the products. Remember, Libertarians are committed to getting big government OUT of your life. Less laws, less government, less regulation; these are Libertarian ideals.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
and forget idling on an IRC channel with cable. I am sick to my stomach with this service.
I was hoping it was implied that I ran a defrag (just before the scandisk, of course).
...had the police sent in to recover a mis-addressed prototype sent in the mail.
There was an article on Slashdot quite a while ago about Microsoft accidentally shipping a customer a prototype TV-Internet unit, rather then the normal model. Because of their mistake, Micosoft had the police go to the customers house to retreive their mistake.
While Angelfire and the other hosting site aren't govt owned, doesn't it seem like large companies have a little too much power to fix their mistakes?
-MR
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
I signed up about three weeks ago and the installer finally came to get set up my modem yesterday. Guess what. STILL NO SERVICE! When he left yesterday he claimed that there was a temporary router problem and I should be on "in about 1/2 hour". I've made 2 calls to thier "support" line since then and (after re-booting) they concluded that they had no idea what the problem was and that the installer needed to return to fix it. When will that be? TWO MORE WEEKS!!! This doesn't bode well for them.
-Derek
P.S. I'm in Taylorsville UT using the ATT@Home service.
Where are mirrors of the documents?
Judy Sammel was served criminal prosecution papers but was not arrested.
This story does sound like the situation many bay area DSL customers go through in terms of megacorps not communicating with each other. Many DSL customers are actually leasing copper line from PacBell, using the Covad or Northpoint network and paying a third party (ENI etc.) for connectivity.
It can be a nightmare getting problems fixed, since each company has two others to point the finger at!
Slashdot needs a new rating for messages:
+1 Funny, but sad because it's true
They sent around another kiss-ass message saying that things are getting better today. All I know is that it's been months since I've been able to depend on incoming email getting delivered in less than a week and outgoing email getting delivered at all.
Tech: "Thank you for calling _____ tech support...can i have your phone number starting with the area code first?"
Caller: "555-555-5555"
Tech: "O.K. mister ______, what can i help you with"
Caller: "Well, i seem to be having trouble with my
(interupted by tech)
Tech: "When is the last time you ran a thorough scan disk on your computer?"
(here is where it branches)
Caller (answer #1): I don't run windoze...i run
Tech: whoa...hold up champ. we dont' support that crazy 'leenuchs' stuff, thank you for calling _____ technical support...goodbye
Caller (answer #2): Hmm i'm not sure.
Tech: ok, (gives instructions to run a thorough scan disk) and call us back when you are done.
Caller: Can I have your extention so i can talk to you again?
Tech: Unfortunetly, I'll be off in 15 minutes.
thank you for calling _____ technical support. goodbye.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Sorry about the multiple post, everyone. There's some network goofiness on my end.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
>There are fair-use clauses that say you can use
... word ... of ... this ... sentence ... is ... a ... separately ... copyrighted ... document.
>excerpts in your own original writing, but if you
>take my entire work and republish it you have
>violated my copyright.
HMm... we can have fun with this:
Each
I suppose it would fall under "fair use" if you published a syllable or two of any one of those documents, however.
-Dean
See this document from the Copyright Office for furthur information: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/c irc s/circ1.html#wwp.
-- Erv Walter
In most cities and towns there is still only one cable system. They haven't been broken into pieces as far as a local user is concerned.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
- that
setup. It would be pretty funny to see if they try to get a DSL provider to take some sort of action against a user criticizing cable.The parent to this post is the only valid insight so far.
In the article, it states "And although Wesley says he received no notice of why his pages were closed down, Sullivan says Webjump.com and Angelfire.com both sent him infringement notifications as prescribed by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act after Sullivan informed them of the infringement." Just goes to show how bad the email service is at Excite@Home!!
Not in @Home, they won't.
I called up with an SMTP problem (disconnecting from thier mail server immediatly after connection - POP3 was fine, though).
I said 'Hi, I'm having a problem connecting to your mail server on port 25. I get disconnected after connection with error '421 Connection Refused from mail....home.com'. If I simply try to telnet there, regardless of my mail client, I get it.'
They forced me to set up Outlook before they'd help me.
--
Is that they own the Cable Company rights around here and there is no DSL router within 18000 feet. Not only that, but we got a northern exposure. Can you say monopoly? Still, I suppose I should be happy I get ANY kind of broadband service out here in 'high-tech' Reston, Virginia! :S
Be Seeing You,
Jeffrey.
Time Lord, Dark Horse: The Techno Mage of Gallifrey
Long live Caveat Emptor! It died in the sixties along with contract law, during the rise of tort law (with the California Supreme Court leading the way). The consumer no longer has any responsibilities; strict liability now ensures that all harms incurred by the consumer are borne by the manufacturer and incorporated into "the cost of doing business".
This makes sense in that individual buyers are in a terrible inequality to manufacturers in the bargaining process--there's no collective bargaining as there is with unions. There's also the time and hassle required to negotiate contracts properly, and as you've seen with EULAs in the software industry, the company usually just tells you, "FUCK YOU!" in more words but with the same capitalization.
On the other hand, by treating ourselves like morons, we're allowing ourselves to be morons; nay, expecting ourselves to be morons. For the most part, that's entirely justified, but it does produce odd results from time to time, like when an auto company was recently sued successfully because their cars didn't prevent consumers from locking their infants in the car on a hot day, forgetting they were there, and coming back to find a thoroughly asphyxiated baby.
-- Anne Marie
There's possibly a benefit to all this garbage use of the DMCA. I may wake up some in Congress to take a second look and see the monster that's been created. Ok, not too likely. But it does make one wonder what extent consumer protection laws do or so not exist which might circumvent the knee-jerk 'intellectual property' reaction places like @Home have when something like this gets published. Let's face it, it simply embarrasses them (if their service alone didn't do that.) I wonder how far whistleblower laws go. ie, if customers weren't being offered correct 'refunds' for service outages, or weren't being treated equally or violating their publically stated documents (such as refund policies?). Intellectual property or not, all those documents are there for discovery should anyone sue (I know, they expect that nobody'd do that.) Has any court determined to what extent 'publishing' on the web plays in relation to the media? What's it take these days to be considered the 'press'? Can someone / group collectively set up a 'web press for disadvantaged customers' and 'publish' stories, information, hmm...anonymous submitted documents?
After a month, and THREE separate onsite techs, they finally realized that their wiring was dead. And when I contacted billing to get the time refunded, they charged me DOUBLE for the time I was down cuz the person missed the - sign. Oh yeah, the systematic portscans by "excite @home" were fun too.
I think it depends on where you live...I average around 900KB but usually get higher. As far as the upload goes, it's 256 so even though it's not as fast as the download, I still have at least ISDN quality. It does depend on where you live though...and unfortunately, the phone company is more responsible for the quality of your connection than the ISP is.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
Try this link. That's what you get when pages are dynamically created :-/
If this links won't work either, just visit the Deja PowerSearch and enter "wesright@my-deja.com" in the author box. Hope this helps.
Now, again, is that KB or Kb? (You say 900KB, but ISDN gets nowhere near 256KB...gets 256Kb, so you're sending mixed messages).
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
Excite@Home
256 kbps Upstream Toolkit
Step-by-step instructions on implementing for-fee 256 kbps Upstream Rates
Eric Colsman
v. 1.0
Toolkit Table of Contents
1. Introduction
2. Provisioning and Billing Summary Table
3. Step-by-step: Provisioning and Billing
4. Additional Support Procedures
5. Contact people: How to deploy and launch for-fee 256 kbps
6. Frequently Asked Questions
7. CSR Script
8. Background Information and Product Description
(a) Market Demand
(b) Competitive Analysis
(c) Product Objectives, Positioning, Branding
(d) Pricing
1. INTRODUCTION
Given that the ONadvantage Upstream Enhancement deployment delivers 128 kbps upstream, this document explains how and what steps MSOs can take to deploy a for-fee 256 kbps upstream rate. While the ability to deploy this for-fee 256 kbps upstream rate has existed for some time now, this toolkit aims to make this feature more readily available and easier to deploy quickly. The following issues are addressed:
* How is the product sold?
* How is the product provisioned and billed?
* What additional methods and procedures are required?
* What are the roles and responsibilities for MSO and Excite@Home organizations?
* Who does an MSO call to launch this product?
This product is targeted for a small percentage of subscribers -- the small segment of customers who are particularly angered by the implementation of the 128 kbps upstream rate.
* The methods and procedures outlined here support low volumes.
* Pricing, marketing, and sales programs must encourage low volumes. * This product is designed to be offered only to those subscribers who complain strongly about the 128 kbps upstream policy and seek an alternative.
Pricing Recommendation
Excite@Home recommends that customers be charged a one-time set-up fee of $50 and a recurring monthly charge of $30 to provide enhanced upstream. This product is designed to be low-volume and is thus priced accordingly. If a customer wants to use additional upstream bandwidth, they need to bear the costs of receiving this scarce resource.
2. PROVISIONING AND BILLING TABLE SUMMARY
The following table summarizes the sales, provisioning, billing, and tracking steps involved in offering 256 kbps as a premium (low-volume) service. Note that the table accounts for the two types of billing systems and with Tier 1 and Tier 2 division of responsibilities.
MSO Customer Care and Billing Infrastructure:
Billing = BOS/Kenan
Tier 1 = Excite@Home or MSO
Tier 2 = Excite@Home
(EXAMPLE InterMedia, Insight)
SALES and PROVISIONING
Step 1
Tier 1 takes call, addresses any performance issues, qualifies caller for for-fee 256 kbps
Step 2
Tier 1 creates trouble ticket and passes call to Excite@Home Tier 2 Step 3
Excite@Home Tier 2 does final performance troubleshooting including running Net Diag test if necessary, gives final sales pitch, and passes ticket to Excite@Home Tier 1
Step 4
Excite@Home Tier 1 provisions 256 kbps upstream rate using SCOPUS
BILLING
Step 5
Excite@Home Tier 1 applies appropriate billing code using SCOPUS and closes ticket
Tracking
Step 6
MSO tracks provisioning status through trouble ticket
Other Notes
* Before process goes live the MSO agrees upon billing code.
* Reconciliation and reporting agreement between Excite@Home and MSO required.
MSO Customer Care and Billing Infrastructure:
Billing = MSO Billing
Tier 1 = MSO
Tier 2 = Excite@Home or MSO
(EXAMPLE Cox)
SALES and PROVISIONING
Step 1
Tier 1 takes call
Step 2
Tier 1 creates trouble ticket and passes call to Excite@Home Tier 2/2.5(Tier 2 troubleshoots speed)
Step 3
Excite@Home Tier 2/2.5 does final performance troubleshooting including running Net Diag test if necessary, gives final sales pitch, and passes ticket to Excite@Home Tier 1
Step 4
Excite@Home Tier 1 provisions 256 kbps upstream rate using SCOPUS and closes trouble ticket
BILLING
Step 5
MSO applies appropriate billing code in their MSO billing system
Tracking
Step 6
MSO tracks provisioning through trouble ticket or email receipt
3 weeks ago I had lost my @home service and 2 weeks ago I got it back. What happened when I called @home tech support 50 times? They put my thru changing settings on my computer to fix the problem, even after I stated that the problem was on their side. Even got into a fight about who was lying with a tech rep, me telling him that it was their crappy service that was down or him telling me that it wasn't there service and that some settings were messed up in my computer kind of strange being that i have my computers networked and that I know for a fact all the settings were 100% correct and weren't changed before the service went down. Week later service comes up without me even touching the settings on my computer, I wonder why? Got to love @home for the freedom of speech about their crap they call service.
Goku,
Good luck. I hate to say it, but I smell a lawsuit. You were always ready to help in that excuse for a support group, to the point that some even called you an "undercover @homer"... it's their own loss. Cheers -=Chris
"Also the analogy is poor because medical products tend to be tightly regulated... "
This argument had nothing to do with regulations on medical products.
Point is: If you get confidential information from a company and knowing that it is confidential, you post it cause you think it is something that people should know, then you are liable to get in trouble for it. Bottom Line.
What irks me is that most of you bitch and moan where individual privacy is concerned, but dont want to allow companies to have privacy? Companies have confidential information so they can put a product out without someone copying it first and destroying all the work and money which has gone into it.
I got Rogers@Home last weekend.
I had one of their techs come in and install the ethernet card and software for me, cuz, well, it was free, so why not.
When the tech was leaving he said "the lights will blink for a while...up to 15 minutes. When they stop blinking, reboot and you'll be connected".
So, the lights stop blinking, I reboot and voila!
No connection.
I check my settings. I reboot again, just in case.
Nothing.
Then I take a look at modem. The tech forgot to attach the cable from the ethernet card to the modem.
*snicker*
Of course, another group tries to shut down any negative information out there about them. If he had posted positive stuff, he would still be there. But companies expect us to be good little drones and just be happy we have any service at all. MY pager went out for an hour yesterday, and I called and raised holy hell. And you know what? It felt good. There are other services out there, if they break the contract on @Home's end, feel free to break yours. Know that contract backwards and forwards, and use it to your advantage! The companies do!
-------------------------------------------------
OK, I switched from ADSL to @Home last Xmas, and I haven't had anything but a few minor outages, mostly the mail server. I'm not saying the service is great, just that I've never had to try to get support because my connection is up and always fast. (Well, sometimes it's faster than others, but it's no slower than my ADSL connection was.)
I live in Canada, and I have @Home through Rogers where there have been issues in certain areas. But I actually had a way better year under @Home than I did with Bell's ADSL. Is it a generalization to say that there are major problems? Or am I just really lucky?!?!
As far as the publishing of internal documents, I think that it's just wrong to do it. Corporate property is not owned by the public, regardless if their support or service sucks or not. Any company would strive to keep internal documents from being published on the web, especially when they are in such a competitive industry.
Dozer
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them."
Dozer
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them."
I don't know how it is in the US, at least in regards to @Home, but in Canada, cable companies are buying Internet services from @Home just as local ISPs (which are more common then the big guys in Canada) buy it from the big telcos.
Why does this matter? Because the guys providing support aren't @Home representatives, they're the local cable company techies. Who fixes your area when problems go wrong? The local cable company not anybody from @Home. This means the responsibly for the poor customer support and network downtimes falls on the cable companies, not @home. @Home doesn't care about you (and I am an @Home customer, btw), they sell to the cable companies and I think we all know that the cable companies don't care about you and never have.
It's not right, but it was never right. Everyone accepted it with television, but when cable companies started providing Internet services, we expected a higher standard that cable companies won't and never have provided.
When my local ISP provided dialup my Internet service it always worked and no busy signals. Then I changed to The Wave(tm) from Cogeco cable services and I had continual problems getting my email two months after I started with them, but I was already hooked on the speed. When it worked, it worked great; when it didn't, it really sucked. Forget technical support, they didn't even know which areas were down for even scheduled maintenance.
Then they bought into the @Home and became Cogeco@Home. The service didn't get better thought the hype certainly did of all the new things we'd get with @Home, none of which I gave a rat's ass about. I just wanted a stable connection which is what I finally seem to have after about 2.5 years of having the service.
I picked up RR as soon as it became available in my area. I listened to all the ads selling "up to 100x the speed of a modem" and the fliers offering "up to 10Mbs down." Within a week of my getting service, RR instituted a cap of 2Mbs down (384kbs up) without notifying the users. In fact, it took something like 18 days for the general manager to even admit that a cap had been put in place and it was only announced in one local newsgroup - nothing sent in the bill to notify users. They've conveniently changed their advertising to now say "up to 50x modem speeds." and they're talking about setting up a multi-tiered system where "power" users can buy back the bandwidth capabilities we were originally promised... for a higher fee. But they make it look like something special because they "may" lift the incoming port 25 port block(No! you can't run your own mail server even though ours is overloaded and constantly crashing so we can't guarantee reliable delivery). OTOH, they haven't bitched about my box running servers. Unfortunately, I live in the middle of rural western NY and don't have any other broadband option available right now. Some of the local RR users have been writing the NYS Attorney General's office and the Public Service Commission... one has also started a site to help broadband users who are getting the shaft at http://www.broadbandwatch.org
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
OT: I'm not sure, but I think we'd come closer to that. Technology to grant immortality (or even just extremely long life spans) would be a complete disaster.
As for your computer and nuclear waste analogy, clearly, there are devices and processes for which it is either necessary or interesting to learn a lot about them. But that's driven either by professional needs ("nuclear waste") or interest (Linux). If every alarm clock, automobile, lightbulb, refridgerator, washer, drying, etc., demanded that kind of attention, we'd never have time for anything else.
Or, to put it more succinctly, if a consumer device requires more expense in terms of time to set up than the benefit in terms of fun or time savings derived from it, it's not rational to keep it. And since the fun or time savings derived from many consumer devices is pretty small, having to read a manual often crosses that threshold.
Once we do find these documents, let's post them as a story on Slashdot so the world can see what ISPs really think of customers.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I'll post anonymously so I don't get slapped for this, but...
When you run a big ISP, I think it's safe to assume that 99% of the complaints really ARE the customer's fault. People set up Outlook wrong, change their network settings without reading the docs, leave caps lock on when typing their password, etc.
Don't get me wrong, @Home are bastards for taking these actions, but I don't think those internal documents said anything new. As a customer, I've always assumed that's how ISPs work and go out of my way to be reasonable about any problems and demonstrate that I actually know what I'm doing most of the time. The same goes for hardware manufacturers, too.
And what do you think your student computer fees go for? And I hate to tell you, but college is only 4 years (ideally, anyway). Get ready for a rude awakening when you get into the real world and don't have access to that kind of bandwidth.
"I drank what?" -Socrates
It is NOT correct (or is it very good customer service) to assume that 99.9% percent of all the problems are on the users end. Especially w/broadband.
I've worked in tech support, and too many techs took just the angle your suggesting, didn't fix the problem, which meant I had to fix a problem and calm an irate customer.
Not that alot of my calls weren't easy, customer oriented problems to fix. That just let me get to the other problems that much quicker. But If I couldn't pin down the problem, I didn't tell the customer "its your problem" and send them away.
And broadband, even good broadband service, has network problems. Even Consumer Reports and PC Magazine has run articles warning about sporadic downtimes across the board in the industry. What makes for a good ISP, of course, is the SERVICE that they provide. Which means assuming nothing.
here is one of the documents
Tier one troubleshooting guide
Aaron Bryden
Aaron Bryden
abrydenREMOVETHIS@gmail.com
Even when there is a copyright, there is some copying permitted by the fair use doctrine.
They must know this is bogus, but they know they can get away with it by bullying people with abusive legal process?
Why would anyone be suprised?
Mattel / TLC / MSI sued me because they didn't like their critism. Mattel / TLC / MSI sued the CPHack guys because they didn't like people seeing their dirty laundry. Mattel sued the MPAA because they didn't like the Barbie Girl. Mattel lost the Barbie Girl case, the judge said that a company can't use trademark law to silence criticism.
Only by taking on some of these abuses, we can win.
Fight Spammers!
~a doug@fsck-athome.lordlegacy.org & ~g comp.dcom.modems.cable
Besides the E-mail scripts, there are other documents on 256 upstream toolkits and stolen modems.
Google takes at least a month to find and cache new Web pages. Even then, it won't assign them a relevance ranking until they've been linked by another ranked site (the rankings root is www.yahoo.com).
Will I retire or break 10K?
How are they a monopoly? i can get high speed access from a variety of places.
- Dialup? Expect 50 kilobits per second down and 28 kilobits per second up. Not good if you're downloading distributions of Debian GNU/Linux.
- Cable? The cable company has a municipally-supported monopoly on cable and has every right to sign an exclusive contract with @Home.
- DSL? The telco has a municipally-supported monopoly on telephone lines and may not have a switch within 12,000 feet of your location.
- T1? Yeah, <sarcasm>like a user has $1000 a month to burn.</sarcasm>
Anything I missed?Will I retire or break 10K?
A distinction is likely to be made by a civil court in asessing damages though.
Indeed - the distinction that a best selling novel is offered for sale and thus has commercial value, so damages could be awarded, whereas the private documents have no commercial value, and therefor this would be frivolous litigation and the plaintiff would get his head handed to him by the judge. Assuming that it was indeed considered to be a copyrighted work rather than "speech" which just happened to be fixed on paper.
Publishing the entire document is defacto fair use in this case; any way you look at it, copyright law does not apply in a significant manner.
--------
If the individuals who own and operate a corporation want that corporation to exersize their collective rights as natural persons on their behalf, then they MUST collectively take personal responsibility for the corporation's misdeeds. You cannot have rights without responsibility; or exersize authority without accountability.
If the senior management of major corporations were held PERSONALLY accountable (even in a minor way) for corporate misdeeds, corporate ethics wouldn't be an oxymoron. If Reginald Gotroxx III, CEO of BigCorp stood a real chance of having to serve 30 days jail time in a cell with a street thug, don't you think he'd make DAMN sure that his corporation DIDN'T fsck up in a major way? When's the last time you EVER saw a CEO take personal responsibility for ANYTHING (bad) his company did?
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
This kind of corporate thuggery shouldnt suprise anybody. A company I was briefly involved with, BURST! Media, used a similar tactict to oust an employee. She had a webpage where she ranted about things that annoyed her, without mentioning her name OR the company she works for. Management got wind of it, and sent her home "to think about what a collosally dumb thing it was", and expecting her to come back and apologize to the company, knowing full well she wont come back.
This depends greatly on where he got these documents.
If he knew the company had designated them 'confidential' or 'not for public release' or whatever, then damn straight.
Oh.. and who says *anyone* is requird to do business with you if they don't want? Hey.. @home has *THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE*. Just like I do in my own business.
Hey.. I run a consulting business. Does that mean that if someone wants to be my client, but then badmouths me, I have to continue providing him service? I think not.
Oh yeah. And on the ISP side.... it is *correct* for technical support to assume that all problems are on the users end, because 99.9% of problems *are* on the users end.
Anyone have a copy of these documents that I could have? See my .sig for the reason.
-----
OK, class, one more time.
Copyright does not give you ownership over anything (except the copy-right). Copy-right means that you have the "right" to "copy" a work.
Others, too, may have the right to copy the work. This is called fair use.
Except under the DMCA -- which has not held up in court -- copyright violation is not a crime. It is a civil offense, and commercial loss of the value of the work has to be shown.
@Home's docs have no commercial value, which is why they are invoking trade secrets and some DCMA (which has nothing to do with it) bullshit. It's all scare tactics.
Time has commercial value, and is readily available. @Home's docs are neither. That makes copying them fair use.
Mmmm... could it be that these 'notifications' were sent to his @Home mailbox? And could it be that, just perhaps, this is why he didn't get them - because the email service wasn't working (again)?
Wonder how that would show @Home up in court...
Sometimes, techs would tell me that I could only get credit for a complete outage, not an email outage. Other times, I was told that I could get credit only for an email outage that would last longer than two complete days. In each case, I asked to speak to a supervisor.
It helped to have the documentation on hand, and to list the pings/traceroutes I had done. When they gave me beef about having two nodes up, I mentioned that we had paid for them, and I was calling for email service - not support of the nodes. I explained that we were perfectly capable of supporting two nodes. (We never never never never mention that both machines are dual boot - one is Mac/LinuxPPC, while the other is Windoze/RedHatLinux)
After many times of getting credits, but having to prove myself many times, I finally asked about a credit policy. I explained that I had been given many different answers on when I was eligible for a credit.
To my surprise, I received the following information in my email. First there was a reprint of the service agreement I had signed (a draconian piece of work, but understandable), and then the information that
In other words, there may be secret policies, but they are not official, as far as the customers are concerned. This is important.
The Credit policy appears to be The squeaky wheel gets greased. Do yourself a favor. Document stuff, and then squeak loud and long.
Did you hear about the guy who had his electricity shut off because he fought against the utility company's deregulation legislation? He got a hold of internal document leaked to him about how the company would be able to *increase* rates if the proposed bill passed. Or did you read about the woman who had her cable television service cut from her home for handing out "secret" documents on the company's customer service policy at the city council meeting? No? Of course not! That's because they never happened. Neither should @Home be cutting off a very important service to their customers. If the customer really did something wrong, the place to duke it out is in the courts, not yanking their service. That's total bullshit.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
tech: okay, let's take a look at your settings. go into dial up networking...
cust: isn't anything there that says "dial up networking". i deleted it.
tech: hm. no problem, just get out your handy win98 disk and we'll get that fixed for you.
cust: disk?
tech: [giving self joe-forehead]
cust: jesus, can't you people get me connected? your service is lousy and your tech people are incompetent.
look... this whole nefarious @home bull**** is bogus, i won't argue that point, but assuming the problem lies with the customer clearly falls under occam's razor, kids. if you hear a clunking noise coming from your toilet, do you check the chimney? me neither.
My .02,
My .02,
zencode
iactivist.org/jason
I also have trouble with @home: frequent email outages and connection issues. This week alone, router problems prevented me from leaving the @home network - the only access to the internet was through their web proxy. I have been very frustrated by the tech support. (big understatement.)
I was wondering if anyone uses DSL from Vectris and could give some feedback on the quality of service and support they provide. When I switch from @home, I would like to get an improvement.
I've had nothing but bad experiences with @Home as well. 30 minutes on hold to speak with a tier 1 tech who reads from a script. Another 15 minutes to speak with a manager with attitude and indifference toward customer satisfaction. Another 10-15 minutes to get a clueless tier 2 tech. I haven't had a reliable connection to their email servers for weeks. These folks really don't have a freaking idea how to run a network!! I'm quite thankful that I don't own stock in this pitiful company.
My job allows me to recommend internet solutions to many individuals every week, and I will continue to direct them away from @Home. I suggest others in positions of influence do the same. My cable modem will be picked up for good this Saturday and I won't be looking back! I will slum it with a dial-up connection for a bit, using a friend's DSL connection for the big DL's. DSL for myself when I buy a house w/in range (I currently rent and DSL is not available in my area). I will pay marginally more, but will have a chunk of static IP's and will be able to run a variety of services w/out the nasty port scans/emails from @Home. @Home will be delegated to the ISP of choice for the clueless!
Here is one expierence I had. I usually kept myself secure shelled into my home machine from work. One day around noon I noticed I could not communicate with my machine. I thought big deal, this things always down. When I got home I noticed things were still less than perfect. Before really investigating, I called AT&T/@Home. They said that "we are not expierencing any network issues, your modem must have gone bad." Followed by, "we can have some one go out and check it for you. Our soonest appointment for your area (Dallas) is in two weeks." Angrily, I accepted.
As the night went on this didn't set will with me. So I started researching. Using traceroute I found that every packet I set died at the same location. I called @Home back and told them about my research. They said "OK, we can send out a service tech for you" ( again that two week thing! ). I told him no you don't understand the problem is on your end. Finally, told me I was "just speaking to a nurse, let me send you upstairs to the doctors."
The "doctors" were not much more knowledgeable. Finally, I convinced him I knew what I was talking about and he said let me go check that router. Sure enough after resetting the router the world was good once more, he even asked if he could call me next time they had a problem.
Who knows how long this outage would have lasted if I hadn't called. At that point it was 10 hours into the outage, and that router effected most the Dallas/Ft. Worth area.
Fortunately, I moved about two months later and DSL is available in this part of town.
By the way, don't worry, the service tech did show up just like they said, two weeks after my original call!
I also find it hilarious that the trade secret finger is pointed at this poor guy without anyone stopping to question whether he might have gotten the documents, you know, LEGALLY? If they were given to him by an employee, it might be a violation of the employee's agreement with @Home, but that seems to be about it.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
Of course he has no right to publish those documents. Of course that is breaking the law, just like publishing a novel or any other copyrighted material.
It is sometimes right to break the law. Had that been the only option in this case, I would have commended Wesley's actions. But it is actually legal to quote copyrighted material. I belive that one may use 15% or 15 pages, whichever is less, of any copyrighted document(Number may be a bit off, I have a lousy memory). So he just comes across as an ignorant fool. Like you.
Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
as a former @home worker .. I can tell you they dont MEAN to be evil .. its just a by product of their total lack of organization.
The turn over is HUGE (hence .. former),
a lot of the old timers left after cashing in their pre-ipo stocks when it hit $200 a share,
The purchace of Excite certainly didnt help .. as they began to play musical employees.
To give you a few examples of what I mean :
I still dont pay for my cable modem service :P and I have been gone for months.
My e-mail still works.
A friend of mine who left about the same time still has her phone, and e-mail accounts active.
However - you do get beer on fridays :P and there is a slide in the main office .. so I guess that cant be that bad :P
Chuckle .. maybe they are just evil drunks.
(kudos though .. they did refuse carnivore, and refused to give up the records for the guy who wrote the melissa virus (even though they suspended his service - and did try to bill him for his modem :P heh )
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Seriously, things like download and upload caps depend on Who you get @Home from. For example, my brother manages the installations for Cox@Home in Santa Barbara, and they have a very good track record, but they also over-install physical plant, on the concept that it's way easier to cut service calls if you do it right the first time.
But if you have AT&T@Home, like I do, this is the old TCI plant, and they underwired everything. So it only gets worse after they get it working.
Note: I own shares in AT&T and Cox and my sister and brothers do too.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
While we're on the subject; anybody here using @Home in NJ (I'm in the Cherry Hill area) and experiencing severe network brownouts every 15 minutes or so? I lose connectivty about every 15 minutes for about 30-60 seconds, then connectivity is restored once again. This makes network gaming utterly impossible, and forget about file transfers. Everybody at work who uses @Home has the same exact problem, it's utterly disgusting, considering I can't get DSL here.
"True refinement seeks simplicity."
Went with them back in August, took two days to get configuration right and two trips out by their service tech.. Their E-Mail sucks and it's been down (I have the records) more times than it's up. They do now give credits ($10 for every 7 days) And I've been credited three times... Woohoo free broadband internet here I come!
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
What I want to know is --
Where is this guy?
I've got the web space for him. @Home can get stuffed.
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
Maybe if they paid tech support people a decent wage for these types of jobs they would have more competent people. Also, I can tell that you and the rest of the people complaining about tech support have never worked a tech support job. The reason companies tell their employees to assume the problem is on the customers end is because 99% of the time IT IS! I've worked support for different companies, and the overall average of people calling in because they are just plain stupid is at least 90%. Besides doing telemarketing tech support has to be one of the worst jobs on the planet.
OK, this is a bunch of crap. I personally work for @home and it is not true.We are instructed to spend as much time with the customers to find out what the problem is and do what we can to fix it. there are times when the problem is on our side and we are not ashamed to admitt and say that we are working on it. with every isp there is never perfectin but when it comes to customer service we are one of the best. we spend as much time taking care of each of our customers and making sure that each of our customers are satisfied. we are NEVER told to lie to our customers. Thank you
Interestingly, after they settled the billing thing, my cable modem went bad (never came back up). It was another week before they came to replace it ("no, you cannot pick a new one up at the local office"). Pretty coincidental turn of events - not sure what to think there. Fortunately it only took three calls and a cumulative 1 hour on hold to get it settled.
I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation
If they included good manuals, you might have a point. However, the documentation I've seen for several different ISPs is simply a comic book of the install wizard. Zero troubleshooting. Zero indication of where to look for more info. Zero alternatives except call tech support and hope you can convince them that you know what you're talking about.
If they want me to RTFM, they need to give me an FM worth Ring.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
"It sometimes amazes me how the average IQ of Slashdot readers has dropped in the past 12 months."
-Sanity
Looks like a good sig to me.
--------
No, actually I don't. If I was promised a no hassles, easy-to-use box and got something that requires studying the manual and fiddling with drivers, I return the thing and buy something from a different company.
In the final analysis, the end user (of any merchandise) is solely responsible for implementation and proper operation.
Sure, I fully accept my responsibility. And here is the box back.
Sometimes it isn't all about the pricetag and intuitive usablility.
Sometimes it isn't. But for many of the @Home customers it apparently is. And whether it is or isn't is for me to decide, not anybody else.
and a network manager / mac geek/ lab god / I have had the lovely experience of sitting at home on my rock-solid powerbook, and watching every network service go dead as a doornail, see the sync light go dead on the cable modem, and then have @home (after hours on hold) tell me that i must've changed something on my computer and they'll have to send a tech out during working hours at least a week hence. now i know it's not just the problem solving skills of the voice on the phone, but in fact corporate policy. who was it that thought that the two worst customer service companies - the cable company and the phone company - would be BETTER if merged into one?!
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
And I had thought that the email problems were on my side. It gets pretty bad sometimes, though. I spend 25% of my time or more dealing with outages in either pop, news, or web with @home in Madison.
Pax Digitalia
Interesting situation happend to me with @Home.
One of my email accounts didn't have a webspace account. I called technical support and was told by several representatives that I could only have a total of 5 megs of space on all of my email addresses combined. (The reps not knowing the answer to why my newly added 3rd address not allowing me to have webspace thought the overload of webspace material was the ovious problem.) The 3rd time I called I walked the rep. over the phone to their own website and showed them on their own site how each user account has a total of 10 megs free EACH. To the techs complete amazement he forwarded this information to the 'guys' he worked with and forwarded my call to a Tier 2 technician who while on the phone resolved my issue.
GO FIGURE...
DMCA only covers Copyright (dmCa), obviously. Not trade secrets, which is all I could think they could claim.
Scientology typically uses copyright law to prevent the posting of internal documents to the web, and even critiques of those documents, which fall under fair use.
While the material they have removed is rarely illegal, the financial weight of the business [they don't pay taxes, and provide a decent tax write off for many financially successful folk] compared to its dissenters usually means they are able to manipulate the law as they see fit.
It's not really that odd an idea though. I'm sure Thomas Kaplan would call any device which decrypts DVDs illegal, despite the fact that all the MPAA licensed players do [and must - this is what playing a DVD is. Meanwhile Emannuel Goldstein will be 8 million dollars in debt if he loses the case
.So in summary, there is no justice for the financially insecure.
.Let me guess... employee at will, so basically they can legally do whatever they want, including silence her FREE SPEECH and... and she is shit out of luck?
Same thing goes on where I am at Fidelity. I basically can't even fart in an elevator without running the risk of getting fired.
While I am not too pleased with the way they are managed, a union isn't a bad thing to be part of in cases like this.
I have to "Strongly Disagree" with your reading of the situation.
I've dealt with AT&T - they do occasionally have problems with their Worldnet dialup Service - and in almost every case the 1st level call center people have tried to stonewall me. They all react the same way, because they're all reading off the same cue-cards.
If a company policy harms users by instructing techs to aggressively insist all service problems are on the client side, subscribers to the service have the right to know this.
And if it takes the leak of an internal document to let the comsumers know, so be it. Why do you think the documents were leaked in the first place? Because someone there KNOWS SOMETHING IS WRONG, HAS A CONSCIENCE, and WANTS THE PRACTICE TO STOP. Someone inside.
The fact that @home has squelched the docs instead of fixing their broken policies says that they value making money more than they value providing a perfect service. And that is something any customer has the right to know.
-JB
Intellectual Property laws, covering copyright and trade secret material, are enacted to encourage and support the development and publication of true intellectual property, or innovative and improved product development and commercial offerings to the public. Such protections are established in order that those who work to improve commercial products and services, increase knowledge, and create art are able to benefit from their service to the public. It's an incentive to such creative folks to do so.
... it's intended to facilitate publication and distribution, with fair compensation for such publication.
It is the public benefit that is sought, not a cover under which deceitful and illicit activities can be hidden.
While you could label anything with a claim of copyright it does NOT mean that you can employ the IP legal system to prevent the publication of something that's merely embarassing. The interests of the public are preeminent. It would NOT be in the public interest to allow the use of copyright to keep something hidden
Likewise, trade secret protections can only be affirmed where true innovation and improved products or services are reasonably the basis for the materials in question.
Thus, while it could be validly claimed that publishing proprietary business plans and market analyses would be a violation, the publication and reporting of materials portraying gross ineptitude and deceitful business practices cannot validly be so interpreted.
There can be no tort if the published materials are factually accurate and not demonstrably valuable. Embarassment isn't a sufficient basis for claiming value.
I think he said a bit more than "Hey, look what i found..." I think there are other considerations besides copyright law, such as consumer rights laws that might permit the publishing of such information in certain circumstances. He was obviously upset about their customer service practices and this was his way of letting others see what's going on. IANAL, so I'll have to ask if anyone else knows more about this. Seems to me though that a company shouldn't be able to hide information that has an impact on consumers by hiding behind copyright law.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I don't usually read rags like Busineess Week, but I went in for some dental abuse last week, and the cover story of that week's issue caught my eye while I was waiting my turn.
It makes for interesting/enlightening reading. I found it somewhat disturbing - partly from seeing how cold-blooded companies have become about customer service, but equally because it's really hard to fault the practices on rational grounds.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
C is for Cookie,
That's good enough for me.
Wasn't the DMCA about the right of giant evil corporations to own cookies on your hard drive so that it's an illegal act of vandalism to delete them?
--------
The end result? I had the highest access speed, best service, and lowest cost ($25 for a dedicated line and a permanent IP address) I've ever found. Makes me wish a few more cities would try this out...although I wonder if many cities could actually do it as well?
Evan Reynolds evanthx@hotmail.com
Evan Reynolds evanthx@hotmail.com
Two peanuts crossed the street. One was assaulted.
Here is a index of the latest posts by this Wesley person. Should clear a few things up.
Since he was openly publishing this information, he was acting as a journalist.
If I took out your appendix, would that make me a doctor? No. If I installed Linux, would that make me an open source advocate? No.
Give journalists just a bit more credit. Just because some dude grabs some internal documents and posts them doesn't make him a journalist.
Hell, even if he were a bonifide Washington Post Watergate veteran, stealing is stealing. Were he a journalist and he did steal internal documents, he'd have no special protection from the law. Shield laws only protect journalists from revealing their sources. Shield laws don't give us the right to break the law.
InitZero
I did a quick scan and didn't see this posted yet, so forgive me if I'm wrong and this is redundant.
- --------------
- --------------
(text as found on a public web server)
-----------------------------------------------
Excite@Home is aware of the missing and delayed email issue, we have
Been for quite some time and are working on resolving it via upgrades
To the various mail servers affected. Detailed information about the
Various upgrades are not available to subscribers.
You have made repeated requests for internal documentation regarding
Excite@Homes technology and solutions regarding our email servers and
The implementation of repairs. This information is not available to
Subscribers.
Excite@Home is working hard to resolve the delayed and missing email
Issue that you and other subscribers have reported, the upgrades are
Scheduled to be completed during the 4th quarter of 2000 and at that
Time the issues you have brought up should be resolved.
Repeated calls to Excite@home support to demand resolution will not
Resolve this issue, the agents cannot provide a fix, our engineering
Groups are responsible for resolution and are not available to
Subscribers for consultation. They know what the issue is and are
Currently working toward resolving it via various upgrades.
Another message:
(text as found on a public web server)
-----------------------------------------------
Excite@Home
256 kbps Upstream Toolkit
Step-by-step instructions on implementing for-fee 256 kbps Upstream
Rates
Eric Colsman
v. 1.0
Toolkit Table of Contents
1. Introduction
2. Provisioning and Billing Summary Table
3. Step-by-step: Provisioning and Billing
4. Additional Support Procedures
5. Contact people: How to deploy and launch for-fee 256 kbps
6. Frequently Asked Questions
7. CSR Script
8. Background Information and Product Description
(a) Market Demand
(b) Competitive Analysis
(c) Product Objectives, Positioning, Branding
(d) Pricing
1. INTRODUCTION
Given that the ONadvantage Upstream Enhancement deployment delivers
128
kbps
upstream, this document explains how and what steps MSOs can take to
deploy a
for-fee 256 kbps upstream rate. While the ability to deploy this
for-fee
256
kbps upstream rate has existed for some time now, this toolkit aims to
make
this feature more readily available and easier to deploy quickly. The
following issues are addressed:
* How is the product sold?
* How is the product provisioned and billed?
* What additional methods and procedures are required?
* What are the roles and responsibilities for MSO and Excite@Home
organizations?
* Who does an MSO call to launch this product?
This product is targeted for a small percentage of subscribers -- the
small
segment of customers who are particularly angered by the
implementation of
the
128 kbps upstream rate.
* The methods and procedures outlined here support low volumes.
* Pricing, marketing, and sales programs must encourage low volumes.
* This product is designed to be offered only to those subscribers who
complain
strongly about the 128 kbps upstream policy and seek an alternative.
Pricing Recommendation
Excite@Home recommends that customers be charged a one-time set-up fee
of
$50
and a recurring monthly charge of $30 to provide enhanced upstream.
This
product is designed to be low-volume and is thus priced accordingly.
If a
customer wants to use additional upstream bandwidth, they need to bear
the
costs of receiving this scarce resource.
2. PROVISIONING AND BILLING TABLE SUMMARY
The following table summarizes the sales, provisioning, billing, and
tracking
steps involved in offering 256 kbps as a premium (low-volume) service.
Note
that the table accounts for the two types of billing systems and with
Tier
1
and Tier 2 division of responsibilities.
MSO Customer Care and Billing Infrastructure:
Billing = BOS/Kenan
Tier 1 = Excite@Home or MSO
Tier 2 = Excite@Home
(EXAMPLE InterMedia, Insight)
SALES and PROVISIONING
Step 1
Tier 1 takes call, addresses any performance issues, qualifies caller
for
for-fee 256 kbps
Step 2
Tier 1 creates trouble ticket and passes call to Excite@Home Tier 2
Step 3
Excite@Home Tier 2 does final performance troubleshooting including
running
Net Diag test if necessary, gives final sales pitch, and passes
ticket to
Excite@Home Tier 1
Step 4
Excite@Home Tier 1 provisions 256 kbps upstream rate using SCOPUS
BILLING
Step 5
Excite@Home Tier 1 applies appropriate billing code using SCOPUS and
closes ticket
Tracking
Step 6
MSO tracks provisioning status through trouble ticket
Other Notes
* Before process goes live the MSO agrees upon billing code.
* Reconciliation and reporting agreement between Excite@Home and MSO
required.
MSO Customer Care and Billing Infrastructure:
Billing = MSO Billing
Tier 1 = MSO
Tier 2 = Excite@Home or MSO
(EXAMPLE Cox)
SALES and PROVISIONING
Step 1
Tier 1 takes call
Step 2
Tier 1 creates trouble ticket and passes call to Excite@Home Tier
2/2.5(Tier 2
troubleshoots speed)
Step 3
Excite@Home Tier 2/2.5 does final performance troubleshooting
including
running Net Diag test if necessary, gives final sales pitch, and
passes
ticket to Excite@Home Tier 1
Step 4
Excite@Home Tier 1 provisions 256 kbps upstream rate using SCOPUS and
closes
trouble ticket
BILLING
Step 5
MSO applies appropriate billing code in their MSO billing system
Tracking
Step 6
MSO tracks provisioning through trouble ticket or email receipt
Other Notes
* Excite@Home to bill the MSO for appropriate revenue share.
* Reconciliation and reporting agreement between Excite@Home and MSO
required.
* For MSOs that do not have Remedy, an email will provide status.
3. STEP BY STEP: PROVISIONING AND BILLING
Given that this is a low-volume product, provisioning and billing are
both
manual steps that require Excite@Home and/or MSO representative
involvement.
The following points outline the methods and procedures.
Sales and Provisioning
Step 1 - Tier 1 takes the call.
* The process begins with Tier 1 taking the subscriber's call.
* Caller complains about performance issues.
* Tier 1 applies basic performance troubleshooting procedures. Given
that
the
subscriber has an issue with performance, care must be taken to
isolate
the
issues between upstream, downstream, and simultaneous up and
downstream
speed
issues. The subscriber's system must be checked and if possible,
cured
for
speed issues/problems.
* If the performance issue is resolved, the call ends here.
Step 2 - Tier 1 creates a trouble ticket and passes the call to
Excite@Home
Tier 2.
* If the performance issue remains unresolved, escalate to Tier 2.
* If the subscriber and CSR ascertain that the caller has 128 kbps
ONadvantage
upstream (in fact the caller may be (despite best efforts of MSO and
Excite@Home) learning this for first time) and the caller is angered
by
128
kbps, the for-fee 256 kbps upstream product should be offered.
* CSR asks the subscriber if he/she would be interested in 256 kbps
upstream
and informs him/her of the price.
* If the customer is interested, Tier 1 opens a trouble ticket.
* Tier 1 passes the call to Excite@Home Tier 2/2.5.
* If the trouble ticket shows that performance issue remains
unresolved,
then
Tier II must complete the troubleshooting process.
* Run Net Diag/performance test if appropriate
* Run ping tests if appropriate
Step 3 - Excite@Home Tier 2 revises the trouble ticket and passes
ticket
to
Excite@Home Tier 1.
* If the subscriber wants 256 kbps upstream, then the following
prerequisites
must be checked:
* Confirm that more upstream will help the issue. Performance
troubleshooting
must be completed.
* Run Network Diagnostics tool
* Subscriber must be made aware that 256 kbps upstream cannot be
guaranteed and
that this is a burst capability.
* Review price (one-time set-up fee of $50 and monthly recurring fee
of
$30).
* Review billing (Monthly billing, added to bill).
* Pass ticket to Excite@Home Tier I.
Step 4 - Excite@Home Tier 1 provisions.
* Excite@Home Tier 1 provisions 256 kbps upstream rate using SCOPUS.
* Updates trouble ticket.
Billing
Step 5 - Apply the appropriate billing code.
5a (BOS/Kenan billing) - Excite@Home Tier 1 applies billing code
* Excite@Home Tier 1 applies appropriate billing code using SCOPUS.
* One-time set-up fee.
* Recurring monthly fee.
* Given that billing does not happen automatically for this
low-volume product,
activation of billing is a manual step.
5b (MSO Billing) - MSO applies billing code
* MSO applies appropriate billing code upon receipt of email (see
Tracking).
* One-time set-up fee.
* Recurring monthly fee.
Tracking
Step 6 - MSO tracks provisioning status
Through trouble ticket (BOS/Kenan billing).
MSO tracks provisioning through the trouble ticketing system (Remedy).
Through email (MSO Billing)
MSO tracks provisioning through email receipt (for those MSOs without
Remedy).
Note that for low-volumes this is manageable. Once the MSO receives
notice
that provisioning is complete via email, then the MSO applies the
appropriate
billing code in the MSO billing system.
4. ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROCEDURES
Billing
Excite@Home will bill the MSO for the appropriate revenue share if the
MSO
performs billing. Reconciliation and reporting must be agreed upon by
the
MSO
and Excite@Home before implementation.
MSO Billing Reconciliation
* Monthly reports provided by Excite@Home to MSO
* Reports include:
* Newly provisioned subscriber count
* Previously provisioned subscriber count
* Data by region
* Revenue to be split as per the MSO and Excite@Home revenue split
agreement
* Excite@Home bills MSO monthly
BOS/Kenan Billing Reconciliation
* Monthly reports provided by Excite@Home to MSO
* Reports include:
* Newly provisioned subscriber count
* Previously provisioned subscriber count
* Data by region
* Revenue to be split as per the MSO and Excite@Home revenue split
agreement
* Excite@Home pays MSO monthly
Tools
The following resources will be made available to Customer Care:
* Modem check tool: check the current rate of a particular modem's
upstream
rate. (deployed)
* Modem rate-setting tool: Set the modem's rate (128, 256, 512,
unlimited).
(deployed)
* SCOPUS tool.
* Privilege granted to system administrators only.
* Performance and Speed Training document. (released)
* Performance and Speed Troubleshooting 1-page guide. (released)
5. CONTACT PEOPLE: HOW TO DEPLOY AND LAUNCH FOR-FEE 256 kbps
To launch the for-fee 256 kbps option the following people at
Excite@Home
should be contacted:
Troy Strahl Customer Care Overall sorry -
deleted
Jim Broshar Customer Care Tier 2/2.5 sorry -
deleted
Darcy Collet Customer Care Excite@Home Tier 1 sorry -
deleted
Joe Kugler IT-Ops, decide Billing Code sorry -
deleted
Elise Gerich Operations sorry -
deleted
Drew Hamer Billing, Reconciliation, Excite@Home sorry -
deleted
Eric Colsman Product Manager sorry -
deleted
6. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
I. Why does Tier 2 need to be involved, why can't the process reside
with
one
Customer Care group?
The sales process (see CSR Script below) starts with a subscriber
calling
in.
The subscriber either complains about performance issues ('my service
is
slow') or is upset that his/her service has been changed to 128 kbps.
In
either case the sales process begins with a performance issue and
great
care
must be taken to be sure this is addressed accurately and resolved
with
root-cause analysis. Excite@Home's Learning and Development Team has
a
Performance Training Guide to address performance issues.
Furthermore, a
1-page Performance and Speed Troubleshooter guide has been released
and
is on
the partner site under:
Performance issues can be complicated and tricky to diagnose. Tier 1
can
solve many performance problems, but not all. Tier 2 is outfitted
with
the
Network Diagnostic Tool and Performance Test, Ping Test tools, and
additional
training. These must be brought to bear on the problem before 256
kbps
can be
sold as a solution. Otherwise there is a large risk that the product
will
be
sold and without having solved a critical performance issue that will
continue to plague the customer experience regardless of what
upstream is
provided.
Finally, it must be made clear to the subscriber that 256 kbps
upstream
is a
maximum burst capability and cannot be guaranteed.
II. What are the most important aspects of the sales process?
It must be made clear to the customer up front that the 256 kbps is a
maximum
burst capability. Sustained 256 kbps upstream cannot be guaranteed.
It is
also important to understand exactly what the customer requirements
are
because the issue at hand may not be solved with additional upstream
and
may
require a truck role, circuit troubleshooting, computer performance
enhancements, or other solutions instead.
III. Can we offer 256 kbps upstream without a fee?
No. The 256 kbps upstream offering is provisioned manually and thus
Excite@Home and the MSOs incur operational costs in supporting it.
The
product has been designed as a competitive alternative but is not
scaleable
in its current form.
IV. How was 128 kbps decided upon?
128 kbps was chosen to give residential subscribers fast,
multimegabit
downstream while protecting the upstream HFC limited resources. 128
kbps
upstream supports multimegabit downloads and provides significantly
more
bandwidth than dial-up modems (a 56 kbps dial-up modem uploads at ~
30
kbps).
V. What performance issues will 256 kbps solve and which will it not
solve?
* Yes for simultaneous uploading and downloading. For the power user
who
downloads large files while simultaneously uploading files (sending
email,
for example), the 256 kbps upstream rate will provide a significant
performance boost. Asymmetrical links, when burdened with
simultaneous
up
and down traffic, transmit all traffic (in both directions) at the
slower of
the two rates. This is true for all TCP/IP traffic, regardless of
network
technology deployed (DSL, Microwave, HFC).
* No for Gaming. Gaming is unaffected by 128 kbps upstream. The
primary
issue
is latency, and 256 kbps upstream will not address latency.
Additional
network capacity (circuits) will. If a subscriber is pursuing gaming
through
their own server or another privately owned server on the network,
256
kbps
upstream will provide performance improvement. HOWEVER, SERVERS ARE
AGAINST
THE AUP.
* Yes for servers in the living room. HOWEVER, SERVERS ARE AGAINST THE
AUP.
* Yes for large emails. At 128 kbps a 5 MB email (including
attachment)
takes
~ 7 seconds, at 256 kbps is takes ~ 4 (3.5) seconds. Related to this
is
the
simultaneous uploading and downloading issue that is outlined above.
* Yes for sending large files. This will help. However, if a
subscriber is
regularly sending large files, through FTP or similar means, they
should
pursue a solution that is better suited for heavy upstream
(non-residential)
use (an @Work or other commercial product).
7. CSR SCRIPT
I. Why has my service slow?
What kind of degradation are you experiencing? (Email? Speed issues?
Other?)
Apply the performance and speed troubleshooting guide and the skills
learned
in the training manual.
II. Irate customer. Upset that his/her upstream has been set at 128
kbps.
"Why has my service been capped?"
"Why is my service being degraded?"
General Response:
The @Home service is a residential service designed for residential
use,
and
the 128 kbps upstream rate is more than enough for residential use
while
ensuring consistent speed and service across all markets. We're
committed to
giving EVERYONE the fastest experience possible for a reasonable
price.
The @Home Network is designed for residential use, and 128 kbps
upstream
is
more than enough for typical residential use. Applications that are
designed
for residential use are designed for 128 kbps upstream or less. If
you
find
this slow, you're transferring great quantities of data at speeds
several
time faster than a typical dial-up modem and data that is not
typical of
a
residential user. If you need more capacity, you should consider a
product
designed for telecommuting or business purposes. (Or upgrade
customer to
256
or related product if applicable.)
From a newsgroup posting from Milo Medin:
"The issue here is primarily managing the upstream that is shared
amongst
several users in a market. With no limits on upstream, we have a
few
"enthusiastic" users who tend to run servers at home pumping out
pirated
MP3's and a variety of other data, sometimes at megabit rates,
slowing
things down for other users in the network, who then complain how it
used to
be fast, but now is "slow" since more users have joined. If the
upstream is
congested, acknowledgement packets will not get through properly to
the
headend slowing down the downstream as well.
Even though this sort of behavior is generally prohibited by the
service
agreement, it happens all the time. Rate management of 128Kbps
rarely
impacts consumer services, and still supports a multimegabit
download
speed.
Commercial users don't have such rate limits in place, and thus can
burn
more of the upstream capacity which is the most expensive resource
in
the
system to the operator. Commercial users are sometimes provisioned
on
different carriers, or have preferred access to the upstream, with
fewer
users being allocated to those carriers.
As Excite@Home and its cable partners have stated before, we are not
trying
to provide a T1 ISP connection for $40/month. If you buy the
service
with
that expectation, you will be disappointed. We believe the
commercial
access products over the cable infrastructure provide excellent
value,
but
it definitely is more expensive. That's because commercial users
burn
more
network and cable resources than consumers.
Why should the average consumer be forced to pay a higher base rate
(or
suffer much worse performance) so that users who want to basically
buy a
T1
service for less than the cost to provide it can pay a lot less?
That's why you see product tiering, things like ONadvantage. The
goal
is to
deliver an excellent consumer service for the base $40/month price,
and
a
great commercial service at a higher price..
DSL has to deal with some of the same issues, though its limits come
from
other reasons. If we only had more spectrum available in the
upstream,
the
cost to provide the upstream would be lower."
- Milo Medin
Additional detailed points:
Residential Internet traffic is asymmetrical, that is most of the
traffic
is
downstream and very little of it is upstream. 128 kbps provides plenty
of
upstream.
At 128 kbps upstream, you are receiving 4 times the upstream of a 56
kbps
dial-up modem (delivers ~ 30 kbps upstream). You're getting
substantially
more
than your dialup modem, and the downstream is rated at multimegabit
speeds, up
to 100 times faster than a 28 kbps dial-up modem.
III. "I'm going to cancel the MSO @Home Service"
We hate to see anyone leave our service. There are some actions we
want
to
take before you decide to leave.
* Be sure performance and speed troubleshooting is done.
* Be sure 256 kbps upstream solves the problem at hand.
* Offer 256 kbps: "We can offer you 256 kbps upstream. You do need to
know,
however, that this is a premium feature and you will be charged a
one-time
set-up fee and billed $_____ per month. Also, the 256 kbps is a
maximum
burst capability, you may experience lower upstream rates at certain
times.
This is not a guaranteed, sustained upstream rate.
IV. Continued irate customer.
It's important to note that the service is designed for residential
use,
and
that large upstream transfers are a sign that you may be using the
product
in
a manner that violates the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP). What are you
sending
over the upstream?
* Read the AUP if there are any doubts as to what is and is not
acceptable.
* 'Rules of the Road' on the @Home service under the Member Services
Tab
"What's New" clearly states the 128 kbps upstream rate.
* Note that servers of any kind are NOT allowed.
* Note that transferring copyrighted material without permission is
illegal
and not allowed.
V. "I bought an `unlimited' service. This doesn't sound like the
`unlimited'
service I signed up for. What happened?"
The service is unlimited. The @Home Network is committed to providing
the
highest level of network performance for the majority of our
subscribers.
We
constantly improve the service to ensure the fastest possible
experience.
The
upstream enhancement is a positive step because it means that the
majority of
our subscribers can enjoy fast, consistent service. ONadvantage
Upstream
Enhancement ensures that everyone has upstream and downstream rates
required
for the fastest possible residential use.
VI. "I haven't heard anything about this upstream rate change."
An ONadvantage email was sent out well before the ONadvantage
Upstream
Enhancement was deployed. In addition, a broadcast banner with a
click-through letter was posted on the @Home homepage. Both pointed
to
websites that further explained ONadvantage. We've made every
reasonable
attempt to inform customers.
VII. "This is unacceptable. I am going to let the media know, organize
a
protest group, and sue."
As per the Acceptable Use Policy we reserve the right to make changes
to
the
network as needed to ensure that everyone has the fastest possible
residential experience. This is not a new policy. The AUP has been in
place
for quite some time. You should read the Acceptable Use Policy for
more
information: http://www/V3/tabhelp/houseruls/aup/index.htm.
8. BACKGROUND INFORMATION AND PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Summary
Starting Q4 1998 Excite@Home began deploying 128 kbps upstream rate
management
in all markets as part of the ONadvantage initiative to ensure a more
consistent product offering to a rapidly growing customer base. Prior
to
the
deployment of upstream rate management, markets had not actively
managed
upstream rates and were therefore limited only by the `natural' limits
of
the
modem and related equipment.
For those customers who wish to pay for a service with upstream rates
higher
than 128 kbps, who for whatever reason will not migrate to an @Work or
a
related product, and who threaten to cancel their @Home subscription
because
of these factors, Excite@Home proposes the following product - A 256
kbps
upstream product for an additional fee.
The product is designed to be priced high and targeted to a small
percentage
of subscribers (the small segment of customers particularly angered by
the
new
128 kbps rate). This low-volume product is not suitable for
high-volume
or
significant revenue-generating purposes.
Market Demand
Market demand is expected to be small, less than 0.01% (at most 1 of
every
10,000 customers) of the @Home subscriber base is expected to buy this
product.
This product is offered to appease customers who want more than 128
kbps
upstream and are willing to pay for it. The product is designed be
offered
under the following stipulations:
a) Offered to existing subscribers only, not to new subscribers.
b) Offered only to customers who complain.
c) Offered only to subscribers who for whatever reason cannot or will
not
buy
an @Work or equivalent service.
d) Offered only as a last resort in a customer retention situation.
The spirit of this product is to offer an alternative to the
subscriber
who
feels they must leave the service given the change in upstream rates.
This
type of customer would be an early adopter who places value on an
unlimited
upstream rate or upstream rates greater than 128 kbps. The target
subscriber
would probably be an early @Home subscriber who is technically savvy
and
wishes to have unlimited access to the internet not only for everyday
surfing
but to quickly post pictures, upload large files, or send large
emails.
This
customer pushes the boundaries of the definition of residential use,
and
is
probably active in voicing any discontent whatsoever about the
Internet,
Internet Service Providers, changes in service, and any shortcoming
he/she
may
find. While 128 kbps upstream is more than enough upstream to address
all
known residential applications, the 256 product is being made
available to
provide the MSO partner with an alternative offering to the customer
in
the
situation stipulated above.
The sole marketing method will be pull marketing through customer
operations.
If a subscriber specifically asks for the product or expresses extreme
dissatisfaction at the current upstream rates and threatens to
disconnect,
then customer care may offer this product as an alternative.
This product will not be advertised or marketed to the customer base.
The vast majority (over 99%) of @Home customers will not want or ask
for
this
product for the following reasons:
* Customers do not want to be bothered by network management details
including
the definition and policies of up and downstream rates, burst
characteristics, and abuse.
* Customers expect Excite@Home to manage network details for them and
in
their
best interests.
* Customers want speed, and this is delivered primarily by providing
multimegabit downstream performance. Upstream at 128 kbps ensures
that
this
fast experience remains as the customer base grows.
* Customers have no need for large upstream bandwidth -- there are no
known
residential applications that demand more than 128 kbps upstream
bandwidth.
Competitive Analysis
Tiered services exist in some marketplaces as of this writing. Most
U.S.
markets have only one broadband option. A few US markets have several
broadband alternatives including xDSL. There are instances of tiering
including price, upstream, downstream, and bit caps in several U.S.
markets.
Canadian markets tend to have more offerings in each market. This
includes
offerings with different instances of mixes of upstream and downstream
rates
at different price points.
Excite@Home remains committed to delivering the fastest Internet
experience to
the home at the most economical price point and unlimited downstream
burst
capability. Note that the deployment of upstream rate management is
having
a
positive effect because it ensures consistent speed and service levels
across
the growing subscriber base. By capping upstream rates, the service
cannot
be
`hi-jacked' by high-bandwidth abusers. The 128 kbps upstream rate
addresses
the limited HFC resource issue by making the service unattractive for
non-residential users while keeping the upstream rate orders of
magnitude
faster than dial-up services for residential users.
Product Objectives, Positioning, Branding
The 256 kbps upstream rate product is designed to offer an alternative
(as
opposed to the `cancellation of service' or `@Work or equivalent
product'
alternatives) to the subscriber who insists that 128 kbps upstream
rate
management is not adequate for his/her needs. See section 2.1.
The product will be positioned as a feature or a new service level. It
will be
sold on an incremental cost basis (a tiered service would be sold as
a
complete product). The marketing message to the existing customer who
threatens to cancel his/her service is that if you need upstream rates
that
burst beyond 128 kbps upstream, there is a 256 kbps alternative. Note
that
the
term 'burst' is important. @Home can guarantee upstream bursts up to
256
kbps,
but cannot guarantee that this will happen at any given time or for
sustained
periods of time. This feature will be sold separately and will not be
bundled
at this time with other offerings. It will not be branded per se. It
is to
be
used as a last resort in retaining subscribers who might otherwise
cancel
their subscription. See section 2.1.
Pricing
This feature will be separately priced on a per-month additional fee
basis.
There will be a one-time non-refundable order/installation charge of
$50.
There is no termination fee. The recommended monthly recurring fee is
$30
per
month.
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
The FCC is collecting comments right now on how cable modems should be regulated. Important issues, such as whether cable modem operators are common carriers, and whether cable modem systems must connect to multiple ISPs on an equal basis, will be decided. The comment period is for 45 days, starting September 28, 2000, so time is running out.
-
Read the FCC press release.
-
Read the FCC Notice of Inquiry (PDF), which details the questions the FCC wants comments on.
-
Read comments by others.
-
Finally, file your own comments online. The system accepts either short text notes or full filings in Word, PDF, Word Perfect, etc. As usual, replies should
directly address the FCC's questions.
Good comments here may make a big difference. So get busy.(Click above, then type 00-185 into the "Proceeding" box on the search form, then click on "Retrieve").
(Specify proceeding 00-185 when filing a comment.)
Every 10 minutes or so it seems like the cable modem just sort of disconnects for about 5 min at a time... i've started calling it the "Shaw@Home BrainFart".... I am not happy! This may just be the thing to push me over the edge to DSL, as this piece of crap's been doing it for a couple of months at a time....
Guy should've have posted the papers to a website based exclusively outside the US and then linked back. Maybe I'm wrong, but don't think they would find it as easy to lean on someone in Kuala Lumpur, eh?
Podej mi tento talir s koblihama....
A person calls and complains that their E-Mail isn't working. Your call board show all the mail servers as fully operational and working. The first thing you do (and these documents agree with this) is check if the mail server is up by connecting to it yourself. If that works then it is very likely a problem on the constomer end. You proceed to figure out what the real problem is and (hopefully) fix it.
This is really REALLY silly people.
These documents seem damming only to those people who do not understand how technical support people are trained to think. We do NOT think of customers as stupid morons who should never have even thought of owning a personal computer, rather we have to deal with vague descriptions of non-problems. Worse yet is the lack of good technical support personnel in the field and add to that the fact that there is SO much to know that one can NOT know everything (though clients often think that one tech support person should know it all). The senior technical people will write out procedure guides which step through EVERY POSSIBLE problem in the MOST EFFECIENT way of fixing the problem. Eg. It is faster to have the client check their network connection by trying to access a webpage or loading up winipcfg than seeing if the DHCP server is not responding on their subnet. Knowing if they have an IP or not, one can quickly eliminate various problems and think of what is really causing the problem.
Then there are the pseudo-techs that call in. These people don't know their ass from the security hole in their file-share, yet claim to be some r33t h4x0r. These are the people that give technical support people migrains and early retirement. I can help people who know what they are doing and I can help people who don't know what they are doing. I can not help those who think they know what they are doing but, really, don't.
These documents, to me, are simply guidelines that tehnical support people can use to step through various problems. When I look at something like this I don't read it top-to-bottom, I scan it for what the customer is having problems with. Having it in a certain order lets me remember where certain things are so that I can get to them when I need to.
As for this idoit losing his account, well.. tough luck. He didn't like the service and @home did the right thing - they gave him what he asked for. This guy had ABSOLUTLY no right to post confidential material to the internet - basically exposing the internal policies of a company to the world.
In my mind these are not bad policies.
You may disagree. I doubt many technical support people would though.
(I do not work for @home, but I do provide internet related technical support).
Verbatim
Price, Quality, Time. Pick none. What, you thought you had a choice?
Actually, @Home does allow static residential IPs in some cases. For example, in Orange County, CA, Comcast and Cox operate @Home segments. Cox is all DHCP, but Comcast allows static IP if requested. I also know some people who went with DHCP, and their address hasn't changed in about a year. When I moved to Windows 2000 Server in January (let me duck behind this wall for a moment), I had to go with DHCP, as the DNS wouldn't accept requests for some reason. Works now, but then it was a big question mark.
As for servers, I've not had any problems from Comcast. Aside from picking up the NNTP server checks every few hours (UDPs really work), they don't check for anything else. I've been quietly running an FTP server and a web server, not to mention Napster, et al, with nary a peep from @Home, even when I've used the FTP to transfer my entire MP3 collection to work over the course of a couple of days. (I need a CD-R....)
Incidentally, the rate cap doesn't seem to apply so much to Comcast's @Home in OC, either. I routinely download at rates as high as 5Mb, although the norm is 1.5Mb, and the upload cap seems to be at 480Kb, although recently I rarely see that, and usually see about a 256Kb rate or so.
DSL in SoCal, OTOH, is a nightmare. Pacific Bell DSL switches their DHCP addresses every few months, and I have friends who are knocked offline for as long as SIXTEEN HOURS as they bring things back up. This doesn't even include the 8-10 weeks some people have to wait for their installation, although self-install kits are supposedly easing the pain. I don't know who's running their network, but I'm willing to bet they're from SBC. You Texans can have your SBC people back so they can stop messing up our nice PacBell stuff (more than DSL has gone downhill since the buyout).
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
> When I call (yes, I would self-declare as a
- man. I'm sure it might have pissed him off, but I learned the hard way - Sometimes very clueful people make mistakes.
> knowledgable user, not the telecom expert), I
> want the tech guy to assume that I've already
> checked the phone line, that I know what an IP
> address is, and that I've tried stuff like
> pinging common servers and looking at their web
> page for reported outages. In other words, that
> the problem is probably on their side, and they
> should make a few phone calls to eliminate that
> first.
I don't agree with your "I'm above their problem solving methodology" attitude. I worked in Unix
tech support for over a year, no matter if it was the customer who was ringing up who had written an embedded OS and adminning Unix since before I was into puberty, when his printing sub-system wasn't working right, I'd have to rule things out and ask pretty much identical questions as if I was talking to Mr.I-know-a-bit-of-Unix-but-I'm-more-of-a-Windows
Of course, @HOME's service does sound very poor from the other postings - I'm not defending the company in any way, but when you hit tech. support, it's a bad thing for tech. support to make any assumptions about what you think you've checked - It can be embarrasing for the tech support person and the customer for it to have been a cable plugged out, or a netmask, or whatever.
I reckon the "tiered" tech support would be a service you've to pay extra for.
Also, if they start insisting that you can't use a dual-boot machine or Unix machine with their service, demand it in writing, and ask where you signed up to that. Procede to lawyer if neccessary.
Doesn't anyone remember the case w/ the Apple leak? Why should any of us be suprised at @Home is doing the same tactics at Apple established are perfectly 'acceptable' in today's world. :b)
My question is, is if he's such a 'critic', how the heck did he *get* those internal documents? Surely theres a leak somewhere (or the @Home Techies were running a lil File & Print Sharing
Information is the catalyst for revolution
You want to spend as little as possible on tech support.
Here is what you have to do:
Have enough first level support to handle the sheer load of calls.
Have "cuecards" for those first level guys to weed out the obvious. Their job is to make sure that the customer does a routine check. (any support guy will tell you stories about arrogant computer experts who forgot to check the power cord. Just because I know that the cord must be in doesn't mean that I remembered to check it this time.)
Hire some more experienced folks who can solve problems without the cuecards. Instruct the first level folks to redirect anything that doesn't match the standard scenarios to them.
Make sure that these second level folks has a good "known problems list" to use. Also keep a log on how often they have to answer a certain question. If it is too often, it is time to move it into the standard procedures of first level support.
Hire a few real wizards for last defence. Their job is not primarily to help customers. It is to update the list of the first and second level folks. They should *never* have to solve the same problem twice!
There you have it. You handle the bulk of calls with relatively inexperienced (= cheap) employees *and* you handle any problem up to the skill of your wizards. Everybody learns something (so people will stay longer) and your wizards are kept from routine (so *they* will not get bored)
All opinions are my own - until criticized
One of the @Home subscribers has apparently been tracking email losses for over three months. I've never heard of an ISP that lost this much email! http://members.home.net/mblackford/eGroup-chart.ht m
I have @Home... and when I was sending some mail to a friend through their server about how bad their service had been lately, it kept bouncing the message... It may have been a coincidence, because i have not tested this further, but i found it interesting at the time.
mov ax, 13h
int 10h
mov ax, 13h
int 10h
When I switched ISP's I had to call my old one and tell them I wanted to cancel my service.
before I decided to change I called tech support and asked them what they could do to fix the problem. (mainly inability to stay connected/slow service)
their Reply: "The problem must be your modem or phonelines."
My Reply: "Hummm"
At this point I called the other 3 ISP's and asked if I could get a free trial account to "test" their service which they abliged me with. Testing each during peak hours for speed and connectability.
So when I called to cancel my contract with QWERTY.net internet service they asked my reason. I told them "Gee all those problems I was having, seemed to all go away when I started using XYZ.net's service. Now I can download files and read slashdot without having to reconnect to read the next page."
(names have been changed to protect the really sucky onemain.com internet service)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people are alive, only because it is against the law to Kill them!
I've been carefully watching how this situation has been going on for the past week or so on comp.dcom.modems.cable. Wesley has posted some interesting internal documents.
However, @home has more serious problems in other areas of the country. They have, for the most part CUSTOMER-NO-SERVICE and complaints abound all over that newsgroup about how bad support is.
ATT@Home needs to pay attention to their customers and at least have more competent CSR's. Not every solution is 'reboot your computer and the cablemodem'. Plus, CSR's have no idea if there is a problem in the network since no one communicates these issues to them. CSR's have the 'everything works here' and never have half a clue (insert blonde joke here). CSRs are never located where the problem is, so they _really_ have no clue half a city is without service.
(insert geek joke here)
@Home has (allegedly) put new caps on upload and download speeds, which has made many power users very upset. They should deliver more of what they promise. They (allegedly) wait three days before scheduling a truck to come check your signal, which could very easily lead to a week of downtime.
Basically, @home sucks for many users.
This is true. It has only the authority granted it by the state to do so (through copyright law), and then only for those works (software) which it holds the copyright on (a minority of GPLed works).
The FSF, as a group, has no natural rights. Neither do corporations.
DNA just wants to be free...
--
I don't know, but this sounds a whole lot better than the heavily scripted "tech support" that ISP's are currently offering. I'd appreciate a guy with an actual brain inside his cranium instead of these marginally fluent morons filling in positions at the desk.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Even if you think @Home is correct in this case, it is absolutely horrifying that the law has been set up to default to allowing companies to silence their critics. I mean, we have a Court System. This is why we have it. If @Home sued to have those pages removed, and their case was reviewed in a public court of law, and the judge decided that they were within their rights to request that the material be removed, that would be one thing. I might disagree with the law, but the process makes sense, and it has natural checks to prevent abuse (public opinion, presumably impartial judiciary, etc.)
I find it very scary that the system has been set up to make it so easy for a company to get pages removed, without any public review.
-Dan
I have written a truly remarkable operating system which this sig is too small to contain.
> Technology to grant immortality would be a complete disaster.
Agreed. It would be the ultimate nightmare. Every human or earth have similar lifespan (not equal, similar). So at least, there is some egality on the most important thing.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Intellectual Property laws (arguably including DMCA), covering copyright and trade secret material, are enacted to encourage and support the development and publication of true intellectual property, or innovative and improved product development and commercial offerings to the public. Such protections are established in order that those who work to improve commercial products and services, increase knowledge, and create art are able to benefit from their service to the public. It's an incentive to such creative folks to do so .... because the public benefits.
... it's intended to facilitate publication and distribution, with fair compensation for such publication.
It is the public benefit that is sought by such legislation, not a cover under which deceitful and illicit activities can be hidden.
While you could label anything with a claim of copyright it does NOT mean that you can legitimately employ the IP legal system to prevent the publication of something that's merely embarassing. The interests of the public are preeminent. It would not be in the public interest to allow the use of copyright to keep something hidden
Likewise, trade secret protections can only be affirmed where innovation and improved products or services are reasonably the basis for the materials in question.
Thus, while it could be validly claimed that publishing proprietary business plans and market analyses would be a violation, the publication and reporting of materials portraying gross ineptitude and deceitful business practices cannot validly be so interpreted.
There can be no tort if the published materials are factually accurate and not demonstrably valuable. Embarassment isn't a sufficient basis for claiming value, particularly when the embarassment is due to the company's own materials which demonstrate their malicious, inept, and predatory behavior.
IMHO, Excite@Home has abused its privelege as a publicly licensed business. They have malignantly and arrogantly interfered with the commercial relationships of a citizen with other businesses, under the thin cover of DMCA, merely to keep their own sleazy behavior hidden from the disinfectant effect of public view and informed consumers.
They should be made to answer for this outrageous behavior in either a court of law, or the court of public opinion.
Its also a fact that many companies don't care about customer service BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO. There has to be a financial incentive for a company to want to do something. Unless your Microsoft and can generate revenue via customer support, you generally don't make money here. In some cases when it comes to an irate customer, a company is better off having him/her stop doing business. As long as you have a product that people want, there is no reason to try to please everyone. Just look at DirecTV as an example. I see people constantly saying "When I told the CSR that I was taking my business elsewhere, the CSR basically said 'Don't let the door hit you on the way out...'"
I know when I'm talking to you (the intelligent tech support worker) on the phone, and I will react to your level of knowledge.
With that said, I applied as a tech support worker with (delete big company name here, for fear of men in black at my door), and I was absolutely appalled at the mass incompetence at the hiring level.
I took a general Windows 3.1 qualification exam, with a recruiter no less, not even a company generated exam, a recruiter generated exam. The exam didn't cover BIOS, or set up, or hardware configs, it was a simple as "What is the name of the operation in Windows 3.1 that allows you to manage the files in the system."
Given that experience, I have absolutely no faith in 90% of the tech support workers that I have to deal with, knowing that they went through the same procedure, and having at least turned on a computer at some point in their life, they have a 50% chance of getting the job. So when @Home is exposed for poor tech support -- I mean c'mon, of course they have shitty tech support, the sheer number of people that they have to deal with, and the number of people that they have to hire just to answer the phone -- the odds say the more I will get crappy tech support more often than good tech support.
My solution? Spend the hour a day uptime that you get learning more about their product by reading than you will get through tech support. It will be time well spent.
---------- You are not the contents of your sig.:-p
In my experience, problems are almost invariably at my end. I'm a sophisticated user able to diagnose such things, but most users wouldn't have a clue. So if I were writing a manual for a tech support person at @Home, I'd also start with the assumption that the problem lies with the user until I could establish otherwise. Based on the probabilities, that's the way to bet.
You can expect that depending on your "declaration of experience" that you'll pay
at different incremental rates for service.
And your "status" may be redefined by the provider depending on what kind of assistance you request with an appropriate adjustment in your
payment level.
It does cost the providers more to support some
users than others. If your not willing to pay
that difference, customer support levels will not change.
Customer support is a cost center. A necessary evil, whose cost must be kept as low as possible since it brings in no direct money. That's why
you have to wade through being on hold, talking to cluseless script reading operators and generally waste a lot of your time before (if ever) you get a decent answer.
If you want to good knowledgable support from
the Alpha tech on the first call, you going to have to pay for it. The good techs are expensive.
Facebook is billions of individual "Skinner Boxes." And if you use it you are the pigeon!
He has no right to republish the documents. I don't particularly like @home's draconian behavior, they are within their rights.
Wesley didn't author those documents, therefore he has no right to publish them as he did. The documents contained @home's speech, not Wesley's. Thus @home has the right to control their publication.
Just posting stolen documentation is not protected speech. He could have put up a commentary citing the leaked documents. He could even quote any relevant sections. The point is Wesley's speech is protected. If he was speaking or was the author of a document which he had posted, then @home would not have been able to do what they did.
Sorry, but because @home was controlling infrormation that belonged to them. This is not censorship.
gwonkI'm still looking, but not that hard. My perfect service provider is still my workplace - fast, very little downtime, and, for the moment, little or no monitoring. If I want something, I download it at work, and walk it home on a Zip disk.
What I want in a home provider (be it DSL, Cable, or dial-up) is an option when you sign up to self-declare as a newbie, a knowledgable user, or a telecom techie. Of course, feel free to replace these with terms more favorable to the newbie...
When my Grandmother calls, I want the tech guy to look and see the "Newbie" checkbox marked, and start with the "Can you hook a phone to the computer line, and see if you get a dial-tone?" level of questions. Either her problems are obvious, or a serious ISP-side problem that the tech guy already knows about.
When I call (yes, I would self-declare as a knowledgable user, not the telecom expert), I want the tech guy to assume that I've already checked the phone line, that I know what an IP address is, and that I've tried stuff like pinging common servers and looking at their web page for reported outages. In other words, that the problem is probably on their side, and they should make a few phone calls to eliminate that first.
When the telecom guy calls, he should be transfered to the Alpha-tech on duty, so they can talk in the same language. Hell, if the telecom guy calls, he's probably providing a diagnostic service, and his bill should be reduced for the month. Or, at least, not bore him to tears with responces of "You can't use Linux with our service! You must be lying!".
Anyway, anyone know a service like that out there? Or do you self-declare by going with AOL or MSN, DSL or Cable, or a local small-time ISP?
i had cablevision modem service for a while and i was really happy with it. they had some outages, but overall provided really good service.
:)
the only bad things about them is that they're slow in deploying and they require a 2 year commitment to get the modem at a cheaper price (although this could have just recently changed since i subscribed). since i just moved, i'm back to ADSL until cablevision is ready to offer serice again. (under my contract, i'm obligated to resume service or i pay a termination fee).
i'm looking forward to the service again. they didn't block ports, proxy, or anything. since they have pretty long dhcp leases and i never shut off the modem, i even pointed a real domain name there.
i recommend them.
-Jae
ISP's in general do not think this way of their subs. Mega large broadband ISP conglomerates think this way of their subs.
/.ers are hot-headed over generalizing, narrow-minded fools when in fact that percentage is much less than all encompassing.
I'm a partner in a small ISP and I can say with all honesty I have never thought this way of my subs.
If I have a problem, I let the customers know. If a customer calls me with a problem, I give them the benefit of the doubt before passing summary judgement.
If one of my customers wants to personally attack my service, that's their right. If someone wants internal memos sent between me and my partner, come on down, I'll give the grand tour of the facility and see if we can't work out this disagreement.
My point being, don't over generalize. It's like saying that all
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
Just being a jounalist does not give you the right to re-publish anything that comes into your hands. A jounalist can include portions of the document in a larger commentary, but must remain within the rules of copyright law.
Only the authors or copyright holders have the right to publish the material. Everyone else can only comment, cite, or critique.
gwonkCorporations -- big or small -- exist to make a profit & constantly increase profits.
But don't take my word for this. Ask any Republican or Libertarian why a given corporation should be allowed to get away with some inethical behavior (e.g., cheap products, substandard service), & once you pin them down on the facts that what was done *is* inethical, they end up whining ``Well, they're just doing what every other comapny is doing. And they have to make a profit."
Gee, if an individual down the block abuses his children, treats his spouse like a servant, abuses alcohol or drugs, & someone were to say ``Well, he's busy making more money so we'll forgive him", that would be a lame excuse to me. So why do we allow fictive individuals -- which is what a corporation actually is -- to use this excuse?
Seems to me corporations have more rights than the rest of us already. And none of the responsibilities.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
It would be great if what you say is true, but something makes me think that cable franchises will be as free as comerical radio in the end.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Here's a good example of how bad ATT is. Where I live, the DNS mail and what not are all located all the way accross then into another state. Needless to say, it don't work so I use a local university and warn anyone that wants a cable modem.
One week, the university changed the IP of it's DNS, and just for grins I tried to use ATT's DNS for a while. My wife got fed up with it after a few days of piss poor service and somehow convinced me to call ATT to see if they could help me. Without giving too much away, I can tell you that I found the university's new IP.
Calling ATT was a 2 hour waste of time. Not only did they not have another closer and perhaps working DNS, they probed my machine without mercy, told me that DHCP would help (as if!), and were smart ass in general. I talked to a local clueless dude, his boss and the elite team in Washington. All the same, useless.
The local wait was about 40 minutes. Then I explained that my DNS was not working right and it made surfing very difficult. He ignored me and tried to probe my machine for a while. "Uhh, are you running Windows with our software installed on it?" Well yes I was in fact behind a fire wall with deny all paranoid set, so the correct answer was "yes". He tried some more, gave up and listened, then got his boss so I could explain everything again. I asked him if I had the right sever address and he told me that I did. I told him that it never worked well, and that it rarely responds to an IP address ping. He sent me off to the folks in Washington.
Same song and dance from them too, but one more piece of information. To get another, not neccesarily better, DNS I would have to move. They would not provide me with an address that worked.
My wife had been right though. ATT should provide those basic services to all their users and I should not be burdening everything between me and a decent Sun machine on campus.
Even more on topic is this notion: a company that has been granted a monopoly had better think twice before they attempt to censor and intimidate their users. The end of local cable monopoly franchises is only an expiered contract and a vote away. Bussiness model (buy monopoly and fuck your customers) goes to shit when the premise evaporates. In the mean time, their market share is not going to grow unless they can do better than AOL.
If I could, I'd mark you down as 'off topic', 'overrated', 'flamebait' and 'troll'. Yes, I hate to mark down because I'd rather bring someone else's interesting post to attention, but this post is about as useful as the Penis Bird. To respond to your general notion:
TECH SUPPORT WORK IS BAD, BUT IF IT'S YOUR JOB, SUCK IT UP, SMILE AND TRY TO HAVE A NICE DAY.
I checked their site, and it says they have 768Kb per second downloads. Is that meant to be a small b? I'm thinking of switching to DSL (have AT&T@Home right now, and have had excellent service, but when the modem dies every 8 or 9 months, it takes like a week to get it replaced), but going from speeds up to 900KB per second between me and friends on the same node to around 80KB/s...well, there's really no point.
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
Ever study any philosophy? Particularly ethical philosophy? I doubt it. A post right above you (and please READ preceding comments before spouting off YOUR flatulence) makes the point perfectly. Rights are innate and don't disappear no matter what government says. Hizonner's comment is here:
Re:Groups do not have rights. (Score:2, Insightful) by Hizonner on Thursday October 26, @01:28PM EST (#235) (User #38491 Info) Sigh. What is with you people? Rights are not conferred by laws. Laws exist to protect rights. The fact that the law gives a corporation certain "rights" does not mean that those rights exist morally. In fact, corporations' "right" to exist at all is purely legal, not moral. It's granted by the government because corporations are a convenient way to organize large-scale activity. There would be no inconsistency in limiting corporations in any way... as long as the purpose of that limitation wasn't to destroy the rights of the underlying individuals. Anybody who brings up the law in an argument about what corporations should be able to do is an idiot. The law is subject to change, should it be determined to be wrong.
I'm the guy at the Parts counter at my local CompUSA. Customers usually ask us questions about everything, so we have to be ready. 90% of the time, we get computer-illiterate customers (I'm not going to call them "idiots", because if I did, then I'd have to call my parents and sister "idiots"!), but sometimes we get an experienced person who either needs to check their settings, confirm something, and so on. We answer it all (even where to get RDRAM; I'll tell you which internet warehouse to choose for the part!)
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
He posted "private" internal documents to a public forum. That's wrong. Just like I'd rather not have my credit card statement published in the Chicago Tribune.
Sheesh!
While the documents may show crappy business practices by @Home let's not castigate them for wanting to keep private documents private. Do you want them to make their root passwords public as well?
I just made an educated guess that 3% of the people in the US are journalists.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I'm not sure if these are the correct postings, but they are all I could find using DejaNews:
/. long URL bug mangled them.
[@HOME ] - EMAIL - Tier 1 Troubleshooting Guide
[ @HOME] - 256kbps Upstream Toolkit
[@HOME] - MSO - Customer Credit Calculation
[@HOME] - Comcast - Stolen Modem Procedure
[@HOME] - Abuse Reporting Procedure
I had URLs that would give a plain text version, but the
@Home is like McDonalds....If you get bad service at 1 or 2 local McD's...That does not mean all McD's across the country are bad. I have had Cox@home for over 2 years and (knock on wood) I can count the downtime hours on 1 hand....And if they juice is flowing to the modem -- why would I have to call Tech Support??? -- I am sure they get lots of calls from people who can't configure Outlook or get Java Script errors -- and most likely thousands of other "problems"....But all I ask is that they provide the connection...and keep up the "Dont Ask Dont Tell" policy on my meager servers....And all is good.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
@Home will not provide static IP service at my
house because they know it is a residence, even
if I pay for it. Praying for DSL.
In the year that I have had it, it has gone down once for a period of more than 5 mins or so, and that was for 11 days, for a reason that I was never told of, went through 4 modems, 3 techs, and about 15 CS reps to get it fixed, every one of which was claiming that the lines in my house had suddenly gone 'bad' as they put it, and that I should have them checked and certified (by WHO?!?!) before I call back.
It seems that @home suffers from large service provider-itis, that of not giving a rat's ass about the people that are shelling out the money to keep them in business. Call your local telco, power company, long distance provider, et cetera, they don't care because there arent any other options for consumers to change to. You are a captive audience and they provide the service that you want/need. I guess you could call them the data pimps and we are their little ho's. :-)
"See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."
It is the habit of many libertarians to equate companies with people, when speaking of freedoms and rights.
I think this is entirely wrong. People are mortal beings, born with "certain inalienable rights" according to the philosophy of the founding fathers (of the USA). Nowhere in the constitution does it say "corporations" or "companies" or "businesses" enjoy these rights.
It is a legal fiction that has made the corporation an equal to the individual before the law -- a very destrcutive legal fiction I might add. For corporations are not equal to humans in any real sense: they are potentially immortal, command more wealth than many nations, and have a degree of power over throngs of people which, in more sane societies, is reserved for the government alone, or the people themselves.
I will be voting libertarian this election, because overall I think we need to move in that direction. However, I think their blind faith in the free market as a panacea for all ills is both overly simplistic and demonstrably wrong (health care, anybody? How about care for the elderly and nursing homes? Or care for orphaned children?), and their notion that there is no trade off between freedom for corporations from regulation and freedom for individuals is equally wrong (child labor, the rights of employees,- for better or worse - to unionize, the family leave act, etc).
Corporations are not people and do not deserve to be treated as such, nor was the constitution ever intended to do so.
However, these criticism aside, the Libertarians are absolutely correct that, as a first step toward sanity, we need to return our government to the rule of law under the constitution as it was written.
Then we need to fix the constitution with appropriate amendments. One of the things that needs to be addressed is the current immunity of corporate authorities from the constitution, so called "private" (in name only) corporations are not required to respect their employees (or anyone elses) constitutional rights, as the constitution "only applies to the government."
I would argue that it is past time for a constitutional amendment extending its authority to cover all realms of authority, private and public, within the borders of the United States. That would probably be sufficient: then the Libertarians could follow their agenda of (nearly complete) deregulation without reducing the rights and liberties of individuals. Without such a change you are correct, unabridge rights for corporations will translate directly to seriously abridged rights for individuals.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Yet another reason private, internal documents should be Open Sourced.
When you sell stuff to consumers, it should work when it's plugged in and it should be obvious how to use it. It shouldn't require reading lots of manuals. That's not just because it's a nuisance, but if the thing is so complicated to use that it requires reading a manual, it just won't be very useful. The manual will get lost, other family members won't bother, the person who originally waded through the manual will forget, and within six months, it will get tossed or it will be obsolete, repeating the cycle all over again. Consumer devices are supposed to make life easier and provide fun; and these days, that means a minimal investmnet of itme. I've returned consumer devices that required reading the manual: it's a sign of poor design and poor value.
In fact, the same ought to be true for stuff sold to professionals, but professionals have less choice in the matter because for them, stuff they get sold is needed to get a job done.
If @Home pushes platforms (Windows, MacOS) that require tricky installations and can be misconfigured in a myriad of ways, they have to pay for that in terms of support costs. If they don't, they won't get a lot of customers, of course. In the short term, that's the way business works for everybody. In the long term, maybe that will provide sufficient incentive for @Home to support consumer friendly hardware and software (and, no, I don't mean Linux either).
That's 0.03%. Very scary indeed.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
My @Home service was a headache from the day I ordered it until the day it was disconnected. Following the physical installation, it took six weeks and tens of long, frustrating phone calls to get the cable modem enabled. It suffered frequent, lengthy service outages. They silently instituted the hated 128k upload filter after a few months of barely adequate service. Finally, they shut off my modem a day earlier than I requested and discarded the unread contents of my mailbox. I had been planning to transfer my @home mailbox to another @home account (@home service supposedly comes with up to five mailboxes) but they wouldn't cooperate to permit this. Definitely the worst ISP I've ever used, despite the fact that I was a Netcom customer at one time.