Show me some evidence that anything from the sun besides TSI has a significant effect on climate. You can't assume something that is not in evidence. We have not reduced the climate to CO2 alone, it is just the dominant factor currently. Again, you need to provide scientific evidence if you want to show it's something else. If you could provide such evidence I'd be happy to listen to it. So far everything you have said is just vague handwavey stuff without any solid evidence to back it up.
And as Lazeyj points out it's not really a coupled system because nothing that happens on Earth has any effect on the sun so it's a one way relationship.
The Sun may be loosely coupled to the Earth, but the Earth is tightly coupled to the Sun. Coupled system, nonetheless. Spend your efforts studying math because you obviously do not know what a coupled system is or how to properly solve them. When you understand nonlinear coupled systems, then you can start asking for "evidence," otherwise you're just committing Texas sharpshooter fallacy. BTW, what % of atmospheric gases is CO2? http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu...
You've reduced the Sun's output to a single variable: its temperature. Just like the climate alarmists have reduced the Earth's climate to a single variable: CO2. Go study more mathematics and learn how to properly solve coupled, non-linear systems; they are not easy.
It's physics. Call it what you like. What's your point?
I'm not convinced most of you have studied enough math nor physics to understand the problem beyond the politics of it.
Freeman Dyson on the Global Warming Hysteria April, 2015 - Effect of Sun on Climate http://bit.ly/2uuO2lf
Yes, back when we had all that acid rain we really should have just learned to live with it and all the environmental damage it caused, rather than adapting our industry to curtail the pollution which caused it.
Seriously you're as bad as "the solution to pollution is dilution".
Industry is just an extension of agriculture. Have you rejected annual ag lately? Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - "The middle east today is what annual ag does." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1K3otw2
Yes, the climate is a coupled non-linear chaotic system. Nonetheless dwindling solar output will have a net negative forcing on global temperatures. It really can't explain recent warming and will have actually acted to reduce observed warming.
Which part of your statement is the Observation and which part is the Concept? Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - Observation vs Concept @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1lM3PFS
Solar output has been falling over the last several decades. There is no coloration between solar output and rise in greenhouse gasses. Dwindling solar output has been driving global temperatures down. That means something else is responsible not only for driving temperatures up, but also for compensating for the drop in solar output.
You're not familiar with nonlinear, coupled systems, are you? Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - Observation vs Concept @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1lM3PFS
The sun has been monitored pretty well for about 400 years. Recently it's been monitored rigorously since the 1950s and continuously from satellites since 1979. In all that time it's never shown enough variation to account for the current warming. You may want it to be the sun but the evidence shows that it isn't.
Do they have a model that predicts that Sun's variations that's being observed?
Probably should not believe and predictive models of climate that doesn't also have an accurate, predictive model of the Sun. Coupled systems cannot be magically decoupled.
If there is only one variable that affects the Earth's climate, it would be the output of the Sun. If there was a second variable, it would be the kinematics of the Earth about the Sun. Neither one should be considered constant, and the former is certainly not easily modeled. Alas, there's much more than just two variables that affects the climate.
The goal should not be to predict or control climate, but to adapt to it as Nature does.
Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - "Ecology... Nature is only model we have that has survived climate change with sheer, total, utter neglect..." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1ohVqpE
So your theory is that changes in the Sun's output are causing the recent rise in temperature?
1. What happened to the warming that should have occurred (and was predicted to occur) due to increases in greenhouse gases?
2. Where is the observational data to evidence your theory?
1) Is rise in greenhouse gases the cause or effect?
2) The Earth's climate is mathematically coupled to the output of the Sun. You should be asking for models that accurately predict the output of the Sun.
...caves with no electricity, no plumbing, and no transportation...
Not that creative of a thinker... you kind of fell off a cliff there, not even a slippery slope. Technological salvation is a faith based proposition...
"Annual agriculture is all about living through our concepts... our idea we've imposed on reality & when reality doesn't behave according to our idea, what do we do? We input... we can never input enough to make our false concept correct." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1GnbtAA
In perfect lab conditions, solar panels are barely 20% thermodynamically efficient, saying nothing of the toxicity of the manufacturing and disposal processes.
Nature figured out solar; it's called photosynthesis.
"Lisa, in this house, we obey the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics." --Homer Simpson
There are efficiency losses throughout that entire conversion cycle. The only clean way to minimize those efficiency losses is to use less energy.
Talk about a false equivalency. Yes using less is ideal. It doesn't follow that all sources of power are equally bad however. It's clear that fossil fuels are irredeemably polluting. When you need to use energy (and we all do) then you want to use the cleanest form of power generation available to you.
Wind & solar today still depend on fossil fuels in its life cycle.
In at least Android 7, you can set the permissions for an app on what it has access to. I have FB Messenger set up to only have Camera and Storage. I ran the dude's Ruby script (https://gist.github.com/dylanmckay/2b191a10068bd87d0fffba242db44b52) against my data, and this is the output I get:
There are phone records for 0 distinct phone numbers
There are records of 0 distinct cell phone calls
There are records of 0 distinct SMS messages
There are records of 0 distinct MMS messages
Slashdot Mirror
Show me some evidence that anything from the sun besides TSI has a significant effect on climate. You can't assume something that is not in evidence. We have not reduced the climate to CO2 alone, it is just the dominant factor currently. Again, you need to provide scientific evidence if you want to show it's something else. If you could provide such evidence I'd be happy to listen to it. So far everything you have said is just vague handwavey stuff without any solid evidence to back it up.
And as Lazeyj points out it's not really a coupled system because nothing that happens on Earth has any effect on the sun so it's a one way relationship.
The Sun may be loosely coupled to the Earth, but the Earth is tightly coupled to the Sun. Coupled system, nonetheless. Spend your efforts studying math because you obviously do not know what a coupled system is or how to properly solve them. When you understand nonlinear coupled systems, then you can start asking for "evidence," otherwise you're just committing Texas sharpshooter fallacy. BTW, what % of atmospheric gases is CO2? http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu...
You've reduced the Sun's output to a single variable: its temperature. Just like the climate alarmists have reduced the Earth's climate to a single variable: CO2. Go study more mathematics and learn how to properly solve coupled, non-linear systems; they are not easy.
It's physics. Call it what you like. What's your point?
I'm not convinced most of you have studied enough math nor physics to understand the problem beyond the politics of it. Freeman Dyson on the Global Warming Hysteria April, 2015 - Effect of Sun on Climate http://bit.ly/2uuO2lf
Yes, back when we had all that acid rain we really should have just learned to live with it and all the environmental damage it caused, rather than adapting our industry to curtail the pollution which caused it. Seriously you're as bad as "the solution to pollution is dilution".
Industry is just an extension of agriculture. Have you rejected annual ag lately? Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - "The middle east today is what annual ag does." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1K3otw2
Since the sun doesn't vary that much it's not necessary to try and put that in climate models.
You cannot magically decouple coupled systems.
Yes, the climate is a coupled non-linear chaotic system. Nonetheless dwindling solar output will have a net negative forcing on global temperatures. It really can't explain recent warming and will have actually acted to reduce observed warming.
Which part of your statement is the Observation and which part is the Concept? Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - Observation vs Concept @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1lM3PFS
Solar output has been falling over the last several decades. There is no coloration between solar output and rise in greenhouse gasses. Dwindling solar output has been driving global temperatures down. That means something else is responsible not only for driving temperatures up, but also for compensating for the drop in solar output.
You're not familiar with nonlinear, coupled systems, are you? Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - Observation vs Concept @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1lM3PFS
The sun has been monitored pretty well for about 400 years. Recently it's been monitored rigorously since the 1950s and continuously from satellites since 1979. In all that time it's never shown enough variation to account for the current warming. You may want it to be the sun but the evidence shows that it isn't.
Do they have a model that predicts that Sun's variations that's being observed?
climate change deniers are all about "Nature/ecology be damned."
Alarmists & deniers are opposite sides of that same coin. How did we deceive ourselves into believing climate is constant and predictable?
You seem to be confusing science (demonstrating the causes of climate change) with politics...
You may be confusing cause with effect. People claiming to know the cause with certainty are not politically motivated?
"Ecology... Nature is only model we have that has survived climate change with sheer, total, utter neglect..."
"The planet is fine, the people are fucked" ~ George Carlin.
Yep, "climate change" is euphemism for doubling down on more command and control. Only approved behaviors will be allowed, Nature/ecology be damned.
Probably should not believe and predictive models of climate that doesn't also have an accurate, predictive model of the Sun. Coupled systems cannot be magically decoupled.
If there is only one variable that affects the Earth's climate, it would be the output of the Sun. If there was a second variable, it would be the kinematics of the Earth about the Sun. Neither one should be considered constant, and the former is certainly not easily modeled. Alas, there's much more than just two variables that affects the climate. The goal should not be to predict or control climate, but to adapt to it as Nature does. Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - "Ecology... Nature is only model we have that has survived climate change with sheer, total, utter neglect..." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1ohVqpE
So your theory is that changes in the Sun's output are causing the recent rise in temperature?
1. What happened to the warming that should have occurred (and was predicted to occur) due to increases in greenhouse gases?
2. Where is the observational data to evidence your theory?
1) Is rise in greenhouse gases the cause or effect? 2) The Earth's climate is mathematically coupled to the output of the Sun. You should be asking for models that accurately predict the output of the Sun.
Imagine if the Sun's output is also not static or constant...
Is this what the eastern medical traditions call chi?
...caves with no electricity, no plumbing, and no transportation...
Not that creative of a thinker... you kind of fell off a cliff there, not even a slippery slope. Technological salvation is a faith based proposition... "Annual agriculture is all about living through our concepts... our idea we've imposed on reality & when reality doesn't behave according to our idea, what do we do? We input... we can never input enough to make our false concept correct." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1GnbtAA
In perfect lab conditions, solar panels are barely 20% thermodynamically efficient, saying nothing of the toxicity of the manufacturing and disposal processes. Nature figured out solar; it's called photosynthesis.
"Lisa, in this house, we obey the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics." --Homer Simpson There are efficiency losses throughout that entire conversion cycle. The only clean way to minimize those efficiency losses is to use less energy.
So you're the one writing those physics problems that assume spherical cows grazing in a vacuum?
I'm assuming we're using more energy that is necessary to survive & thrive. Technological salvation is a faith based proposition.
Talk about a false equivalency. Yes using less is ideal. It doesn't follow that all sources of power are equally bad however. It's clear that fossil fuels are irredeemably polluting. When you need to use energy (and we all do) then you want to use the cleanest form of power generation available to you.
Wind & solar today still depend on fossil fuels in its life cycle.
If we start using a lot less energy. Using less is the only clean energy. Nicole Foss on renewables @AutomaticEarth http://bit.ly/2rzS5Pq
@joerogan Experience #961 - @Graham__Hancock, @SacredGeoInt & @michaelshermer Hunted to extinction or cataclysm? http://bit.ly/2zKU1IM https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news...
"Ecology... Nature is only model we have that has survived climate change with shear, total, utter, neglect..." @RestorationAgD http://bit.ly/1ohVqpE