I think you are new to standards. Standards are rarely implemented the same way by everyone irregardless of how well defined it is. For example look at html/css etc. and browser support reminding yourself browsers are just catching up to 1997-8 standards.
I think there is a very good probability that MS XML document format will survive just as long as any open format, just be they are the de facto. And I should remind you that MS XML format would be considered an open format, if it were not for MS excluding redistribution of source code. It does not prevent people from using a different licence. (Other companies including apple have implemented it)
Maybe you should look at the new office format, all someone has to do is create an online service that can parse MS doc xml and convert to open office.org xml, and guess what that is the point of using xml. And you can get all the documentation you need from MS on how to parse MS doc XML to convert to your own, and we do it at work everyday, to export data from Office to DBs, web services etc. In this connected world, without redistributing, Google, Sun, or even openoffice.org can implement web services to convert that are not part of the source code being redistributed.
Essentially all I am pointing out is just because a license forbids source code distribution does not imply it not open. Open is a relative term. Opensource and royalty free are not.
Microsoft entered AJAX when they created XMLHTTP, and used it in OWA. They just created easy to use developer APIs in.Net now. Dont get me wrong, I am liking Atlas, it is a very good framework, and takes care of a lot of plumbing that i know would have taken me years to write.
Sorry you require a duh... If you are not running as a Admin/Power User it is the same in windows as well. And yes it is possible to run as a regular user in the windows world, and i am typing in this as a user logged in without any admin priviledges, and wow i can run ff, office, VS, photoshop, dreamweaver, gaim, sql manager, query analyzer, cygwin, yahoo music engine and 7-zip.
I think people need to quit complaining that they cannot run as regular users as windows. Use RunAs if you a pain in the ass game that requires admin access
If "Responsible disclosure" is only a propaganda term, why would Mozilla and other popular open source projects use them. Why do they block access to security issues.
If a hole exists, it exists, however not everyone (including hackers) knows about it until it is published. Holes exist nowadays for years, some flaws for instance in NT 4.0 are discovered now 10 years later. Software is waay to complex nowadays it is good bet to take that unless published most holes will go completely unnoticed, until some other security firm after 100s of hours of research will find it.
How is it in the users best interest to disclose it when 99% of users are not capable of defending themselves. Do you really think that most non-techie people are going to read security lists to find out that there is a hole in a web browser. Then read/figure out alternative ways to mitigate that risk, by disabling some feature in their OS or application.
The ONLY people that have an advantage or early disclosure is Security folks, Sys Admins, and other IT people that care.
To correct people the millionth time, Windows has had better ACLs that most linux/unix out there for a while. What MS is adding is something in between sudo, and some dynamic lowering of priviledges.
Dont think MS trying to lure the devs away, most of the major projects are not going to stop just because one person is going to leave.
if you have not figured it out yet, that is the reason many give to look "good" in front of slashdot.
Ill tell you why I run Windows, 1) I can get stuff i need done... 2) Just because you do not know enough and just trust everything you hear abt windows does not make windows "awful" 3) Being a sys admin, Windows is by far is easiest to manage when it comes to managing 100s of computers 4) Apple has real few advantages in a managed environment compared to Windows. Windows literally has tons of features that just do not exist in os x for management. 5) dont kid yourself, Windows in a managed environment is as secure as OS x or linux
@ home 1) Media Center 2) Visual Studio 3) Dev tools 4) By far the one of the most accesible platforms, we get commercial software, and open source software. Throw in cygwin or sfu and get a decent unix environment as well.
PErsonally when i started using firefox, i thought firefox looks oddly like IE. So the way everthing is organized on FF is copied from IE. When MS added the yellow pop-up bar, FF copied that too.
I am not saying copying is bad, because, copying comething better is always good for the customer at the end. (Making is better is perferable)
Oh please, apple got it right because they dropped directed OS9 support, and had it only in a virtual machine.
Most applications I use work just fine as a non-admin. Saying MS implementation is flawed is stupid, because it WAS flawed, and it is correct now. So your claims that MS is flawed now is well stupid.
When you run as a regular user, and launch a setup, most installers bring up a runas box. All i wish is that Windows app builders would test their applications on lua before shipping, and yes part of that can be blamed on MS, but most of that is still on the developer.
If you read up on it, you will realize it is not a flaw. There is no patch out there that is going to fix peoples stupidity, or that odd trust they have that everything on the interweb is safe. People need to learn to be careful, and not give away information. By the Opera 8.01 is not vulnerable because they add a stupid bar that says where the popup came from..... wooo hooo what magical patch.
Personally i do not think the license is bad... read the part about the source code distribution, and their addendum they added
------From MS license---- 2.1 Patent License Subject to Section 2.4 and Your grant of licenses in accordance with Section 2.3, Microsoft and its Affiliates hereby grant You a perpetual, nonexclusiv e, royalty-free, nontransferable, non-sublicenseable, personal, worldwide license under Microsoft ' s Necessary Claims to make, use, import, offer to sell, sell and distribute directly or indirectly to End Users, object code versions of Licensed Implementations only as incorporated into Licensed Products and solely for the purpose of conforming with the Sender ID Specification.
2.2 Source Code Distribution You also have subject to section 2.4 and Your grant of licenses in accordance with Section 2.3,, a perpetual, non-exclusive, royalty-free, nontransferable, non-sublicenseable, personal, worldwide license to distribute or otherwise disclose source code copies of such Licensed Implementation licensed in Section 2.1 only if You (i) prominently display the following notice in all copies of such source code, and (ii) distribute or disclose the source code only under a license that is placed in close proximity to the following notice and does not include any other terms that are inconsistent with, or would prohibit, the following notice:
" This source code includes an Implementation of the specifications entitled " Purported Responsible Address in E-mail Messages", file name draft-lyon-senderid-pra-00.txt, and located at the following link on November 16, 2004, url: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lyon-sen derid-pra-00 and the specification entitled "Sender ID: Authenticating E-mail", file name: draft-lyon-senderid-core-00.txt, url: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft- lyon-senderid-core-00 . In the context of developing those specifications at the IETF, Microsoft submitted a patent disclosure which can be found at http://www.ietf.org/ipr.html. "
For clarification, this Agreement does not impose any obligation on You to require the recipients of Your source code implementations of such Licensed Implementations to accept this or any other Agreement with Microsoft. Your End Users may use the Licensed Implementations licensed in this section 2.2 or in section 2.1 that they receive directly or indirectly from You without executing this Agreement. This Agreement will be available to all parties without prejudice. ------End From MS license------
Sorry, I just tried as a regular user, Windows folder is not writable. Neither is the program files folder. The root folder however is. Application makers are responsible for being careful about accepting malformed events. It is stupid for programmers to assume nowadays anything that comes in to a program is secure. Active X and scripting languagees in windows is no more unsafe than in any other operating system. LEarn to logon as a user Case insensitive is no make life easy for normal people. case preserving is for POSIX compatability. This way both can work. they do not use rpc for everything, for yes they could limit it more.
What however makes no sense is that Exchance 12, comes out next year. So Monad would have to ready when long horn ships.
So either, they are shipping it with longhorn and making it an addon a little later, or it wont be out until 2008/9, which is it i do not know.
If you look at MS longhorn, they are backporting major developer features to XP. It might be a surprise to you that an OS has other features than just developer stuff. For instance, parts of IE 7 will not be backported to XP, they are including a new search, a new GUI based on avalon (Windows GUI based on avalon not backported to XP, only the framework). But since I have no clue what else they are going to do, until PDC later this year.
Sorry but Opensource is not a competitor. However Redhat, Novell etc. are. They can always if they want buy a license, pay MS cheap/for free (depending on what MS agreed with EU) and implement and release on top of linux. That means in no way is MS restricting competitors at all.
Sorry the requirement of people here that it has to be compatible with opensource is stupid. This is because GNU is not technically open, it has a lot of restrictive clauses. Opensource is a philosophy and NOT a competitor or company
Re:Intel, it doesn't matter.
on
Intel Claims No DRM
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I hope you realize that drm in some form already exists in your computer. For example macrovison is supported by ati, nvidia and intel. So waht are you doing to do, quite using graphics boards...
Look, I realize some people on slashdot just hate drm, but there are others who think it is a perfectly valid system, as long as any of my rights are not affected.
I would rather have my rights protected, and have value to the product that i purchased, than a bunch of theives to copy it to the extent it has no value what so ever.
1) Outlook never automatically ran attachments. It would run it when morons double clicked on it. Still a problem with a user than MS suffered for. (There were vulnerabilities that allowed remote execution i think)
#2 can also be achieved in windows, Windows has always had a better ACL support than linux. All people had to do remove execute priviledges on the home directory, and I have implemented it.
So basically any modern OS can be secured from user as well, but most admins are not up to it.
you must be kidding yourself. MS added functionality to do what, not for developers to use them. Extending a standard aka EMCAScript, IS extending it, they are doing exactly what MS and Netscape did back in the day.
But I do not mind that because otherwise we would not have font, css and many of the other things people take for granted in html.
I do not see anywhere on the streets while i drive that crossing the white line to the other side is dangerous....
The problem with that statement is very similar to your scenario, except when we are kids we are taught not to cross roads when cars go by, we are then put through training before we get a license, and get tested on it. I personally think it is about time the same was done for the internet, and people with compromised machines for a long period must be charged with fines as well. But then it is not like fines and prison time stops people from driving drunk.
Not trolling but which debian do you run, the one that is really old with security updates, or testing with relatively new, and no security updates.
Debian is not what it used to be, personally i would prefer one of the other commercial debian based linuxes, you get newer software and better security updates.
Well i am talking about the DRM. WMA DRM scheme is more open than fairplay any way you look it. It is not open in the sense it was free as beer or speech. It is open in that anyone who wants to can implement it with a license from MS. and yes all DRM sucks.
I hate to put it this way, but get real. MOST people need motivation to work, for some it is money, for some it the that new TV etc. Life in this world revolves around money/pride/ego and rarely selflessness. And TRUST me most opensource apps are not created due to selflessness. Closed source apps are never created due to selflessness.
Slashdot Mirror
I think you are new to standards. Standards are rarely implemented the same way by everyone irregardless of how well defined it is. For example look at html/css etc. and browser support reminding yourself browsers are just catching up to 1997-8 standards.
I think there is a very good probability that MS XML document format will survive just as long as any open format, just be they are the de facto. And I should remind you that MS XML format would be considered an open format, if it were not for MS excluding redistribution of source code. It does not prevent people from using a different licence. (Other companies including apple have implemented it)
Maybe you should look at the new office format, all someone has to do is create an online service that can parse MS doc xml and convert to open office.org xml, and guess what that is the point of using xml. And you can get all the documentation you need from MS on how to parse MS doc XML to convert to your own, and we do it at work everyday, to export data from Office to DBs, web services etc. In this connected world, without redistributing, Google, Sun, or even openoffice.org can implement web services to convert that are not part of the source code being redistributed.
Essentially all I am pointing out is just because a license forbids source code distribution does not imply it not open. Open is a relative term. Opensource and royalty free are not.
sure it is useful, but MSN local search is better. It has more features, and is easier to use. and best of all it supports the scroll wheel.
Microsoft entered AJAX when they created XMLHTTP, and used it in OWA. They just created easy to use developer APIs in .Net now. Dont get me wrong, I am liking Atlas, it is a very good framework, and takes care of a lot of plumbing that i know would have taken me years to write.
Sorry you require a duh... If you are not running as a Admin/Power User it is the same in windows as well. And yes it is possible to run as a regular user in the windows world, and i am typing in this as a user logged in without any admin priviledges, and wow i can run ff, office, VS, photoshop, dreamweaver, gaim, sql manager, query analyzer, cygwin, yahoo music engine and 7-zip.
I think people need to quit complaining that they cannot run as regular users as windows. Use RunAs if you a pain in the ass game that requires admin access
If "Responsible disclosure" is only a propaganda term, why would Mozilla and other popular open source projects use them. Why do they block access to security issues.
If a hole exists, it exists, however not everyone (including hackers) knows about it until it is published. Holes exist nowadays for years, some flaws for instance in NT 4.0 are discovered now 10 years later. Software is waay to complex nowadays it is good bet to take that unless published most holes will go completely unnoticed, until some other security firm after 100s of hours of research will find it.
How is it in the users best interest to disclose it when 99% of users are not capable of defending themselves. Do you really think that most non-techie people are going to read security lists to find out that there is a hole in a web browser. Then read/figure out alternative ways to mitigate that risk, by disabling some feature in their OS or application.
The ONLY people that have an advantage or early disclosure is Security folks, Sys Admins, and other IT people that care.
MS still has investments in MSNBC. They only sold slate.
To correct people the millionth time, Windows has had better ACLs that most linux/unix out there for a while. What MS is adding is something in between sudo, and some dynamic lowering of priviledges.
Dont think MS trying to lure the devs away, most of the major projects are not going to stop just because one person is going to leave.
if you have not figured it out yet, that is the reason many give to look "good" in front of slashdot.
Ill tell you why I run Windows,
1) I can get stuff i need done...
2) Just because you do not know enough and just trust everything you hear abt windows does not make windows "awful"
3) Being a sys admin, Windows is by far is easiest to manage when it comes to managing 100s of computers
4) Apple has real few advantages in a managed environment compared to Windows. Windows literally has tons of features that just do not exist in os x for management.
5) dont kid yourself, Windows in a managed environment is as secure as OS x or linux
@ home
1) Media Center
2) Visual Studio
3) Dev tools
4) By far the one of the most accesible platforms, we get commercial software, and open source software. Throw in cygwin or sfu and get a decent unix environment as well.
PErsonally when i started using firefox, i thought firefox looks oddly like IE. So the way everthing is organized on FF is copied from IE. When MS added the yellow pop-up bar, FF copied that too.
I am not saying copying is bad, because, copying comething better is always good for the customer at the end. (Making is better is perferable)
Oh please, apple got it right because they dropped directed OS9 support, and had it only in a virtual machine.
Most applications I use work just fine as a non-admin. Saying MS implementation is flawed is stupid, because it WAS flawed, and it is correct now. So your claims that MS is flawed now is well stupid.
When you run as a regular user, and launch a setup, most installers bring up a runas box. All i wish is that Windows app builders would test their applications on lua before shipping, and yes part of that can be blamed on MS, but most of that is still on the developer.
ya ya, letz make fun of M$....
If you read up on it, you will realize it is not a flaw. There is no patch out there that is going to fix peoples stupidity, or that odd trust they have that everything on the interweb is safe.
People need to learn to be careful, and not give away information. By the Opera 8.01 is not vulnerable because they add a stupid bar that says where the popup came from..... wooo hooo what magical patch.
Personally i do not think the license is bad... read the part about the source code distribution, and their addendum they added
n derid-pra-00 and the specification entitled "Sender ID: Authenticating E-mail", file name: draft-lyon-senderid-core-00.txt, url: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft- lyon-senderid-core-00 . In the context of developing those specifications at the IETF, Microsoft submitted a patent disclosure which can be found at http://www.ietf.org/ipr.html. "
------From MS license----
2.1 Patent License Subject to Section 2.4 and Your grant of licenses in accordance with Section 2.3, Microsoft and its Affiliates hereby grant You a perpetual, nonexclusiv e, royalty-free, nontransferable, non-sublicenseable, personal, worldwide license under Microsoft ' s Necessary Claims to make, use, import, offer to sell, sell and distribute directly or indirectly to End Users, object code versions of Licensed Implementations only as incorporated into Licensed Products and solely for the purpose of conforming with the Sender ID Specification.
2.2 Source Code Distribution You also have subject to section 2.4 and Your grant of licenses in accordance with Section 2.3,, a perpetual, non-exclusive, royalty-free, nontransferable, non-sublicenseable, personal, worldwide license to distribute or otherwise disclose source code copies of such Licensed Implementation licensed in Section 2.1 only if You (i) prominently display the following notice in all copies of such source code, and (ii) distribute or disclose the source code only under a license that is placed in close proximity to the following notice and does not include any other terms that are inconsistent with, or would prohibit, the following notice:
" This source code includes an Implementation of the specifications entitled " Purported Responsible Address in E-mail Messages", file name draft-lyon-senderid-pra-00.txt, and located at the following link on November 16, 2004, url: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lyon-se
For clarification, this Agreement does not impose any obligation on You to require the recipients of Your source code implementations of such Licensed Implementations to accept this or any other Agreement with Microsoft. Your End Users may use the Licensed Implementations licensed in this section 2.2 or in section 2.1 that they receive directly or indirectly from You without executing this Agreement. This Agreement will be available to all parties without prejudice.
------End From MS license------
Sorry, I just tried as a regular user, Windows folder is not writable. Neither is the program files folder. The root folder however is.
Application makers are responsible for being careful about accepting malformed events. It is stupid for programmers to assume nowadays anything that comes in to a program is secure.
Active X and scripting languagees in windows is no more unsafe than in any other operating system. LEarn to logon as a user
Case insensitive is no make life easy for normal people. case preserving is for POSIX compatability. This way both can work.
they do not use rpc for everything, for yes they could limit it more.
I agree that PCs do not make very good network devices. But they offer something in price, that none of the other appliances i know of can match.
What however makes no sense is that Exchance 12, comes out next year. So Monad would have to ready when long horn ships.
So either, they are shipping it with longhorn and making it an addon a little later, or it wont be out until 2008/9, which is it i do not know.
If you look at MS longhorn, they are backporting major developer features to XP. It might be a surprise to you that an OS has other features than just developer stuff. For instance, parts of IE 7 will not be backported to XP, they are including a new search, a new GUI based on avalon (Windows GUI based on avalon not backported to XP, only the framework). But since I have no clue what else they are going to do, until PDC later this year.
Sorry but Opensource is not a competitor. However Redhat, Novell etc. are. They can always if they want buy a license, pay MS cheap/for free (depending on what MS agreed with EU) and implement and release on top of linux. That means in no way is MS restricting competitors at all.
Sorry the requirement of people here that it has to be compatible with opensource is stupid. This is because GNU is not technically open, it has a lot of restrictive clauses. Opensource is a philosophy and NOT a competitor or company
I hope you realize that drm in some form already exists in your computer. For example macrovison is supported by ati, nvidia and intel. So waht are you doing to do, quite using graphics boards...
Look, I realize some people on slashdot just hate drm, but there are others who think it is a perfectly valid system, as long as any of my rights are not affected.
I would rather have my rights protected, and have value to the product that i purchased, than a bunch of theives to copy it to the extent it has no value what so ever.
1) Outlook never automatically ran attachments. It would run it when morons double clicked on it. Still a problem with a user than MS suffered for. (There were vulnerabilities that allowed remote execution i think)
#2 can also be achieved in windows, Windows has always had a better ACL support than linux. All people had to do remove execute priviledges on the home directory, and I have implemented it.
So basically any modern OS can be secured from user as well, but most admins are not up to it.
you must be kidding yourself. MS added functionality to do what, not for developers to use them. Extending a standard aka EMCAScript, IS extending it, they are doing exactly what MS and Netscape did back in the day.
But I do not mind that because otherwise we would not have font, css and many of the other things people take for granted in html.
I do not see anywhere on the streets while i drive that crossing the white line to the other side is dangerous....
The problem with that statement is very similar to your scenario, except when we are kids we are taught not to cross roads when cars go by, we are then put through training before we get a license, and get tested on it. I personally think it is about time the same was done for the internet, and people with compromised machines for a long period must be charged with fines as well. But then it is not like fines and prison time stops people from driving drunk.
Not trolling but which debian do you run, the one that is really old with security updates, or testing with relatively new, and no security updates. Debian is not what it used to be, personally i would prefer one of the other commercial debian based linuxes, you get newer software and better security updates.
Tabs are patented in general by Adobe.
Tabs in browsers were created by BookLink Technologies in Internet Works. This was follwed by netcaptor(based on IE).
Tabbed browsing is not a creation by Mozilla or Netscape. But Firefox would be the first widely deployed Tabbed browser.
Well i am talking about the DRM. WMA DRM scheme is more open than fairplay any way you look it. It is not open in the sense it was free as beer or speech. It is open in that anyone who wants to can implement it with a license from MS. and yes all DRM sucks.
I hate to put it this way, but get real. MOST people need motivation to work, for some it is money, for some it the that new TV etc. Life in this world revolves around money/pride/ego and rarely selflessness. And TRUST me most opensource apps are not created due to selflessness. Closed source apps are never created due to selflessness.