"Viable" in what way? I mean, would you be satisfied using DOS today? On a PC you just bought from the store? Leave aside the lack of drivers for probably 90% of things out there, or the fact it was concieved before the Internet took off, but what about single process and all the crud and generally the fact that OS is ancient by any standards.
And if you would still consider using DOS today, the question is "why?" Maybe if enough people feel like that there's something to think about. Was it the simpler interfaces? The software that managed to be great in spite of the hardware limitations?
As for us upgrading to 64 bit (which is what I presume you mean) I don't see a big driver for that in the home or general business areas.
Actually, I meant evolving past things like x86 and ATX. They are arguably reaching their limits and I'm hoping we won't spend another decade pulling them along.
Not only is what you say 100% true but is there actually going to be any reason to upgrade even a decade from now?
Security. XP was built in ancient times as far as Internet security is concerned. Not to mention taking some idiotic approaches (blacklisting via antivirus software and such).
Will you dare run XP connected directly to the Internet when you won't have up-to-date antimalware software on it? Or when that "security" model finally breaks for good under the assault of modern malware?
Plus, XP shouldn't be able to run natively on 2020 PC's. Which OS is still able to do run 15-20 years unmodified on constantly-evolving hardware? And then there's my personal hope that we won't still be using i386-compatible PC's a decade from now.
But my eyes are going to shit as I get older, and I know the screen would be too small.
So increase the font size. I find it amazing that people would risk eyesight damage when modern desktop environments offer font adjustment.
As for the actual physical size of the netbook display, it comes with the territory. Foldable computers are currently locked (technologically) into a format that ties the size of the screen on one fold with the size of the keyboard + pad on the other. As long as the total size is meant to be small, you also get a small screen, sorry.
A breakthrough in this area would be a device the size of a pen, which you can wear in your shirt pocket or place on the table. It would contain CPU/RAM/flash storage, Ethernet and USB plugs, wireless and Bluetooth, and would use Bluetooth to connect to foldable keyboard and screen and mini-mouse. Or even better, holographically project a keyboard/screen/touchscreen combo. Add GSM/3G/CDMA capabilities and you get the universal portable device.
The rigid physical keyboards and displays are what's keeping these devices locked into the outdated book-like formats.
One day soon I'm hoping to see someone produce a mini laptop based around one of these 16 bit or 32 bit microcontrollers and an e-ink screen.
Why a laptop? My first thought would be a dirt-cheap and stupidly simple ebook reader. A case, an 8" eInk screen, an AA battery, 2-5 buttons tops, a flashcard slot and Bluetooth.
It's my personal opinion that getting such an extremely affordable reader to every person in the world and letting them share writings freely would do more for advancing the human race that any kind of personal computer could.
Granted, a computer empowers you even more: you can stop just reading and start creating and distributing. But so far, in spite of millions of such "empowered" individuals, there hasn't been the huge advance we would hope for. Maybe we need to get back to the basics and rebuild.
Nice long rants from both you and the GP. There's a simple answer: put up or STFU. You don't like something, anything, about "Linux"? Go fix it. You don't care to fix it or lack the skills? Then shut up.
Nobody cares about your rants about how Linux is "fundamentally broken" in this and that way. Get it through your thick heads that that's not how the development model for OSS works. Things in OSS get done by people (and lately companies and other entities) that need to scratch a personal itch. It's how it started, it's how it is an will be for the foreseeable future.
Linux is a dumb and deaf beast that only wants to scratch itself. It doesn't have market goals, doesn't do marketing, doesn't care about "what users want" or costs or anything. It evolves because a billion different people and entities change it in some way.
Those who just sit on the side and yap are irrelevant and their needs are irrelevant. The only ones that make a difference are those that take Linux and do something with it or to it.
I've never seen or heard about anything of the likes of his problem with Firefox. Assuming they're real, they're not common. One user's troubled setup is hardly likely to dictate the future for the entire app. Using his particular problems to predict generalized doom for Firefox is worthless.
Those starter editions are a joke. The people of those targeted "emerging nations" are currently using illegal copies of fully enabled versions. For free.
Why the hell would they suddenly ditch them en masse and start using a crippled version which costs money?
Do you honestly expect microsoft to continue to offer XP to those OEMs for any length of time once Windows 7 hits the streets?
That's a delicate move, which should not be treated with a heavy hand.
As we've already seen, OEM's have already realised what Linux can mean for them: building blocks that enable them to put together their "own" OS and frees them from dependency on any particular OS vendor. You can include your own driver if you want, customize the desktop anyway you see fit, cut your own deals with any app or browser maker etc.
The only thing keeping OEM's from it is the fear of the public's reaction to Linux, after decades of Microsoft brainwashing. But that can be solved with ads and money and if Microsoft decided to be a pig about it, it might just push a big OEM that way.
Like the Gendarmerie article said, the last real difference nowadays is games, and notebooks are not their target.
[...]but really the lack of a printer driver isn't a vista issue but an issue with your printer manufacturer.
Tell that to the owners of various HP LaserJet printers, some as old as the hills and for which all the major OS's around have drivers for by now. Well, not W7!
Windows NT [wikipedia.org] has had versions on "IA-32, AMD64, MIPS R4000, Alpha, PowerPC, and Itanium", but mostly the earlier versions, like 3.1 and 3.51, with XP on Itanium.
Yeah, but that's not the point here. The point is, if this ARM netbook thing takes off, what will Microsoft respond with? As long as a notebook is x86 and they can arm-twist vendors into putting XP on it, they get away with it. But what if it's ARM-based? Surely not NT, nor XPe, is the answer. Windows CE is their only solution left, but is it ready for the desktop? PDA's and handhelds are not desktops.
We still don't know WHO this mystery major vendor is though.
How about Nokia? They already make devices that are not so far from netbooks. And they've been involved with Linux handheld projects already. And they have lots of experience using ARM in their products.
I second gandi.net. It's perfect for a case where you only need email, and it provides a very good service. Granted, their domains are a bit more expensive than elsewhere (12 EUR + VAT means about 20 USD), but it's well worth it.
XP is also not aimed at a market that installs/uninstalls software on a daily basis.
Ha ha.:) It's not? Then what kind of market is it aimed at? The kind that installs/uninstalls only when the mooon is full?
It doesn't matter how often you [un]install stuff, it's how it goes and how much of a mess it leaves behind.
Linux package management has had years of practice and Microsoft can't do anything to match it. There's no way to create software repositories for Windows. They'd have to be centrally managed and certified by someone. The obvious choice is Microsoft, but nobody sane wants to have their software distribution depend on Microsoft.
I haven't heard a first-hand account of any XP user I know suffering any significant inconvenience from a virus having installed free anti-virus software (Avast).
Other than the wasted resources, you mean. Or the wrong solution (blacklisting) to the neverending security problem that is Windows.
The primary advantage of XP is how widespread the knowledge base is. Linux information is widely accessible too, but not necessarily from someone across the street. I consider learning a new OS to be as big a waste of time as taking too long to install one I already know.
Wow, I didn't know you can go ask the people across the street to teach you XP. I thought you'd either go online (where there is a lot of Linux help) or you'd have a friend or family member to decide things for you (in which case it doesn't matter).
Also, please don't pretend that the monkeying around clicking on pretty pictures that most people do when in front of a computer is called "learning an OS". If they actually used their learning ability instead of their basic monkey skills they'd be able to apply what they learn to the very similar Linux desktops.
I hope you're not suggesting that there is no way to pirate videos remotely on an XP box. Not only is it done by millions of people daily, but it's a rather dubious feature by which an OS should be qualified!
Hey, whatever the user wants. And please do elaborate how I can put together an XP box that is headless and not a full-grown PC by today's standards, and have it pull torrents remotely.
XP's appearance and functionality is completely customizable. It requires some scripting, but there are countless mods to be found with a quick Google search, much easier than learning a new OS.
Oh no no no no. I'm pretty sure that googling for stuff and looking up "mods" and doing "scripting" qualifies as "learning an OS" just as much as learning to customize your KDE desktop (all done by point and click, no scripting involved from the part of the user, BTW).
I have never felt the need for better directory management software, I just keep things tidy. I'm not surprised that the best directory management software has been written for a server-oriented OS.
Yeah, 'cause they really feel the need for graphical GUI's on those Linux servers all over the world. And why should we need fancy file managers, we can use paper files like my grandpa, right? I can manage them myself!
I do multitrack recordings of live shows using a laptop running XP. I've probably done over 60 shows now, it's never even dropped a sample. XP is as stable as you configure it to be.
Oh, but wouldn't this "configuring" also qualify under "learning an OS"? Tell me something, were you born knowing stuff about XP by any chance?
An OS designed for the typical consumer cannot do advanced networking functions, and you're surprised and frustrated?
Oh give it a fucking rest. It's not that it cannot do advanced networking, XP is crippled by Microsoft on purpose so they could make people cough up extra dough if they wanted more from their OS. It's identical to the "server" vers
Don't knock them down before you've tried them. CodeIgniter for instance provides an SQL query framework which is identical (from the usage point of view) to prepared statements. And it does an excellent job of filtering variables so that the views (in the MVC sense) get the variables filtered, while the controllers and models get them raw. So as long as you respect the MVC (ie. don't echo POST vars in the controller) that's XSS and SQL injection taken care of and you don't need prepared statements in the DB to accomplish it.
If anybody can get an SSL certificate that will be accepted by Firefox, for free, no questions asked... then the entire point of having CA authorities goes down the drain. You can't simultaneously have a certifying entity AND let everybody in. Because if that happens we might as well forget about CA use in the browsers and just use SSL for encryption.
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"Viable" in what way? I mean, would you be satisfied using DOS today? On a PC you just bought from the store? Leave aside the lack of drivers for probably 90% of things out there, or the fact it was concieved before the Internet took off, but what about single process and all the crud and generally the fact that OS is ancient by any standards.
And if you would still consider using DOS today, the question is "why?" Maybe if enough people feel like that there's something to think about. Was it the simpler interfaces? The software that managed to be great in spite of the hardware limitations?
Actually, I meant evolving past things like x86 and ATX. They are arguably reaching their limits and I'm hoping we won't spend another decade pulling them along.
Security. XP was built in ancient times as far as Internet security is concerned. Not to mention taking some idiotic approaches (blacklisting via antivirus software and such).
Will you dare run XP connected directly to the Internet when you won't have up-to-date antimalware software on it? Or when that "security" model finally breaks for good under the assault of modern malware?
Plus, XP shouldn't be able to run natively on 2020 PC's. Which OS is still able to do run 15-20 years unmodified on constantly-evolving hardware? And then there's my personal hope that we won't still be using i386-compatible PC's a decade from now.
So increase the font size. I find it amazing that people would risk eyesight damage when modern desktop environments offer font adjustment.
As for the actual physical size of the netbook display, it comes with the territory. Foldable computers are currently locked (technologically) into a format that ties the size of the screen on one fold with the size of the keyboard + pad on the other. As long as the total size is meant to be small, you also get a small screen, sorry.
A breakthrough in this area would be a device the size of a pen, which you can wear in your shirt pocket or place on the table. It would contain CPU/RAM/flash storage, Ethernet and USB plugs, wireless and Bluetooth, and would use Bluetooth to connect to foldable keyboard and screen and mini-mouse. Or even better, holographically project a keyboard/screen/touchscreen combo. Add GSM/3G/CDMA capabilities and you get the universal portable device.
The rigid physical keyboards and displays are what's keeping these devices locked into the outdated book-like formats.
Why?
Why a laptop? My first thought would be a dirt-cheap and stupidly simple ebook reader. A case, an 8" eInk screen, an AA battery, 2-5 buttons tops, a flashcard slot and Bluetooth.
It's my personal opinion that getting such an extremely affordable reader to every person in the world and letting them share writings freely would do more for advancing the human race that any kind of personal computer could.
Granted, a computer empowers you even more: you can stop just reading and start creating and distributing. But so far, in spite of millions of such "empowered" individuals, there hasn't been the huge advance we would hope for. Maybe we need to get back to the basics and rebuild.
I'm waiting for "Pink Pony".
GP meant it as in various shades of evil. That "kitties rolling around" is actually "rolling around in a frying pan".
Nice long rants from both you and the GP. There's a simple answer: put up or STFU. You don't like something, anything, about "Linux"? Go fix it. You don't care to fix it or lack the skills? Then shut up.
Nobody cares about your rants about how Linux is "fundamentally broken" in this and that way. Get it through your thick heads that that's not how the development model for OSS works. Things in OSS get done by people (and lately companies and other entities) that need to scratch a personal itch. It's how it started, it's how it is an will be for the foreseeable future.
Linux is a dumb and deaf beast that only wants to scratch itself. It doesn't have market goals, doesn't do marketing, doesn't care about "what users want" or costs or anything. It evolves because a billion different people and entities change it in some way.
Those who just sit on the side and yap are irrelevant and their needs are irrelevant. The only ones that make a difference are those that take Linux and do something with it or to it.
There's no spoon. I mean root. Lusers don't need to know what that is. They just get asked their own password.
I've never seen or heard about anything of the likes of his problem with Firefox. Assuming they're real, they're not common. One user's troubled setup is hardly likely to dictate the future for the entire app. Using his particular problems to predict generalized doom for Firefox is worthless.
Pink Pony? I think you just announced the code name for Ubuntu 12.04.
Those starter editions are a joke. The people of those targeted "emerging nations" are currently using illegal copies of fully enabled versions. For free.
Why the hell would they suddenly ditch them en masse and start using a crippled version which costs money?
That's a delicate move, which should not be treated with a heavy hand.
As we've already seen, OEM's have already realised what Linux can mean for them: building blocks that enable them to put together their "own" OS and frees them from dependency on any particular OS vendor. You can include your own driver if you want, customize the desktop anyway you see fit, cut your own deals with any app or browser maker etc.
The only thing keeping OEM's from it is the fear of the public's reaction to Linux, after decades of Microsoft brainwashing. But that can be solved with ads and money and if Microsoft decided to be a pig about it, it might just push a big OEM that way.
Like the Gendarmerie article said, the last real difference nowadays is games, and notebooks are not their target.
Tell that to the owners of various HP LaserJet printers, some as old as the hills and for which all the major OS's around have drivers for by now. Well, not W7!
I'm hoping it wasn't you who wrote the filtering rules...
Yeah. That's what ed is for.
Yeah, but that's not the point here. The point is, if this ARM netbook thing takes off, what will Microsoft respond with? As long as a notebook is x86 and they can arm-twist vendors into putting XP on it, they get away with it. But what if it's ARM-based? Surely not NT, nor XPe, is the answer. Windows CE is their only solution left, but is it ready for the desktop? PDA's and handhelds are not desktops.
How about Nokia? They already make devices that are not so far from netbooks. And they've been involved with Linux handheld projects already. And they have lots of experience using ARM in their products.
No, really? :)
Yet, strangely, candy dispenser units never made it as a part of our PC's...
I second gandi.net. It's perfect for a case where you only need email, and it provides a very good service. Granted, their domains are a bit more expensive than elsewhere (12 EUR + VAT means about 20 USD), but it's well worth it.
XP is also not aimed at a market that installs/uninstalls software on a daily basis.
Ha ha. :) It's not? Then what kind of market is it aimed at? The kind that installs/uninstalls only when the mooon is full?
It doesn't matter how often you [un]install stuff, it's how it goes and how much of a mess it leaves behind.
Linux package management has had years of practice and Microsoft can't do anything to match it. There's no way to create software repositories for Windows. They'd have to be centrally managed and certified by someone. The obvious choice is Microsoft, but nobody sane wants to have their software distribution depend on Microsoft.
I haven't heard a first-hand account of any XP user I know suffering any significant inconvenience from a virus having installed free anti-virus software (Avast).
Other than the wasted resources, you mean. Or the wrong solution (blacklisting) to the neverending security problem that is Windows.
The primary advantage of XP is how widespread the knowledge base is. Linux information is widely accessible too, but not necessarily from someone across the street. I consider learning a new OS to be as big a waste of time as taking too long to install one I already know.
Wow, I didn't know you can go ask the people across the street to teach you XP. I thought you'd either go online (where there is a lot of Linux help) or you'd have a friend or family member to decide things for you (in which case it doesn't matter).
Also, please don't pretend that the monkeying around clicking on pretty pictures that most people do when in front of a computer is called "learning an OS". If they actually used their learning ability instead of their basic monkey skills they'd be able to apply what they learn to the very similar Linux desktops.
I hope you're not suggesting that there is no way to pirate videos remotely on an XP box. Not only is it done by millions of people daily, but it's a rather dubious feature by which an OS should be qualified!
Hey, whatever the user wants. And please do elaborate how I can put together an XP box that is headless and not a full-grown PC by today's standards, and have it pull torrents remotely.
XP's appearance and functionality is completely customizable. It requires some scripting, but there are countless mods to be found with a quick Google search, much easier than learning a new OS.
Oh no no no no. I'm pretty sure that googling for stuff and looking up "mods" and doing "scripting" qualifies as "learning an OS" just as much as learning to customize your KDE desktop (all done by point and click, no scripting involved from the part of the user, BTW).
I have never felt the need for better directory management software, I just keep things tidy. I'm not surprised that the best directory management software has been written for a server-oriented OS.
Yeah, 'cause they really feel the need for graphical GUI's on those Linux servers all over the world. And why should we need fancy file managers, we can use paper files like my grandpa, right? I can manage them myself!
I do multitrack recordings of live shows using a laptop running XP. I've probably done over 60 shows now, it's never even dropped a sample. XP is as stable as you configure it to be.
Oh, but wouldn't this "configuring" also qualify under "learning an OS"? Tell me something, were you born knowing stuff about XP by any chance?
An OS designed for the typical consumer cannot do advanced networking functions, and you're surprised and frustrated?
Oh give it a fucking rest. It's not that it cannot do advanced networking, XP is crippled by Microsoft on purpose so they could make people cough up extra dough if they wanted more from their OS. It's identical to the "server" vers
Don't knock them down before you've tried them. CodeIgniter for instance provides an SQL query framework which is identical (from the usage point of view) to prepared statements. And it does an excellent job of filtering variables so that the views (in the MVC sense) get the variables filtered, while the controllers and models get them raw. So as long as you respect the MVC (ie. don't echo POST vars in the controller) that's XSS and SQL injection taken care of and you don't need prepared statements in the DB to accomplish it.
If anybody can get an SSL certificate that will be accepted by Firefox, for free, no questions asked... then the entire point of having CA authorities goes down the drain. You can't simultaneously have a certifying entity AND let everybody in. Because if that happens we might as well forget about CA use in the browsers and just use SSL for encryption.