Re:Economics motivation for conservation
on
Out of Gas
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· Score: 1
I saw something on TV recently that said that while 10 years ago most people used Bicycles in China, that now cars are becoming the norm, including SUVs.
Between that and almost no environmental standards is making an environmental disaster. Cars aren't the only problem. It is probably the factories that are the biggest factor. They said that currently for manufacturing they are primarly using coal, because China has one of the biggest resources of coal.
Then again, if the current trend of exporting all our jobs to China continues our economy will collapse and China will be the first world. But then we are the ones buying so much stuff from the Chinese, so who will support their economy if ours collapses? Maybe China will start exporting jobs to us?
Nothing happens in a bubble, but regardless we cannot continue indefinately with an economy that depends on cheap fosil fuels. Sooner or later somethings gotta give.
Sometimes I think I was happier without a car. The reasons I like having a car is when I want to go out of town, when I have to move something too heavy or big to carry on my back, or when I just don't have time to bike it. Going to places with friends is also nice. When I got my car a couple years ago I told myself my bicycle would still be my primary transportation. But I got lazy and started using my car a lot more when I could have as easily biked it.
I've spent more of my adult life without a car than with. When I still had a job I biked to work every day, even after getting the car. Now I'm unemployed and out of shape. At least the high gas prices has me on my bike a lot more lately and I'm getting back in shape.
Can I use Oil No 4 to oil my chain? (Gotta have something on topic in my post right?)
I heard on Talk Radio (so take this with a grain of salt) that the federal oil reserve is at 98% which is the highest it's ever been. They were suggesting that it's time the feds step in to ease the prices. I'm guessing the current administration wants to wait until we are closer to November.
I don't know how often this comes up, but how long does it take to ship oil from the middle east? Four Months? But OPEC only just recently made the decision to reduce oil production to drive up the price, and we see the prices at the pump go up immediately.
Also, I live in Oregon, and from what I understand, we get most of our oil from Alaska, so why should OPEC affect our prices? Well, I have a good idea why but like asking rhetorical questions.
Maybe this will have a possitive affect and people will stop driving those stupid SUVs. Or maybe we'll get Biodiesil SUVs?
How much longer until we are using cars like on The Flinstons?
Is Oil No 4 related to Biodiesil? If not what is it used for?
I have a friend who is starting up a new business selling biodiesil farm equipment to farmers. I should probably RTFA, but if they are using stuff that is otherwise being thrown away as waste, it should be a good thing.
This reminds me of some sort of virus many years ago that claimed to turn a CD ROM drive into a CDR drive.
With this at least it is already a writer. But I wouldn't rush to be the first to try it out. Wait a few days and when people start posting "Oh fsck!" messages you'll know not to try it.
But then I still don't have a DVD burner so it is a moot point in this case.
Ken Lay did it to the tune of several billion dollars in California so I'd say it's very possible.
There's a big difference between petty theft, (or would this be Grand Theft Server?) and fraud and embezzlement. And somewhere in there might be an explanation for why Ken Lay is not in prison.
At the last company I used to work for they once showed us a video about the importance of information privacy, and how social engineering works. In this particular example, the person would have been caught right away because he was wearing a suit. No one wears a suit on our floor, unless they're having a job interview, or meeting with the executives or something.
The reality is that most medium sized companies can be vulnerable to social engineering. In most cases the weak point in any security system is going to be on the human level. When you work with people you have to have some element of trust to make things more efficient.
You might need a security badge to get by a security desk, and a key card to get onto the floor. But people sometimes loose their badges and keycards and will be let by just this once.
If you can get into the cafateria without any security stuff you can just go to lunch there for a couple weeks, get to know people's name who work in the IS departments, and maybe even come across a dropped security badge. You can then fordge your own to get to the elevators, and then wait for someone else to open the door to get by needing a keycard. (Assuming the badge you came across didn't also have the person's keycard.)
Then getting information out might be easy. And at the company I used to work for you could probably steal hadware just by putting it on a cart. We had multiple buildings so it was common for people to be carting PCs from building to building. How many security guards would recognize the difference between a PC and a server?
Unless you have security guards that require written permission for every single hardware move your hardware is not going to be 100% safe. And unless you have a zero tollerance policy on holding the door open for someone, your information is not safe. How many companies are willing to do this?
It kills me that all these OpenSource advocates want things to be FREE. The opensource developers donate all their FREE time to developing Linux which IBM can turn around and sell hardware to run linux which they get for FREE which returns PROFITS for IBM.
Funny, I thought that was the whole point of the GPL, it is so free, you can make money off of it.
But I think it will be a while yet until we see Linux take over AIX. But it would be nice to have smit on linux.
This reminds me of a quote in someone's.sig:
ESR: I want to live in a world where software doesn't suck.
RMS: Any software that isn't free sucks.
Linux Can I have Free Beer?
Primarily what I want is software that doesn't suck. If it is GPLed too all the better. If IBM makes a profit from it good for them. If I can make a profit from it then I'm really happy :)
People talk about Microsoft competitors yet they raise company names like Sun, Real, or Netscape.
I would guess that this is because before Microsoft was the big evil corporation that is going to take over the world, IBM was.
The difference being that IBM cut down dramatically on acts that could potentially be interpreted as anti-competative, and maybe even took a step back. I remember some IBM people telling me that IBM made a lot of bussiness mistakes in the late 80s early 90s. This might or might not be related to the IBM anti-trust trial, but before then they had stopped being quite so ruthless.
The difference between IBM's and Microsoft's anti-trust trials were I don't think IBM ever got convicted, and they cut it out anyway so it became a moot point, while Microsoft was convicted, but nothing is being done to tame them.
IBM is the only company in the world that could realistically engage in a multi-front competitive battle with Microsoft.
True, and one would hope that an IBM monopoly would at least write better software than Microsoft. And they are supporting Linux right now so they might be content to share the wealth, as long as they are still making buckets of money themselves, and not force the entire world to use crappy software.
What's the difference between Spyware and a Virus or a trojan horse? Why is it that a company can get away with what a script kiddie would get thrown in jail for?
And are they still going to threaten to sue people who call Gator, excuse me, Claria Spyware?
And might as well throw out a stupid-patent joke out there.....
Do they own a patent on using computer viruses to make money on the internet?
Jumping into a conversation from m2 that you're probably already bored with but.....
Force cannot logically create wealth. Slavery represents only a transfer of wealth (the slaves' labor) to the aggressors. The aggressors gain exactly what the slaves lose. The net result is zero wealth created.
This rather reminds me of a passage from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy explaining why the population of the Universe is none.
Population - none.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Still, I would like to play devil's advocate with you're analogy and ask the question, does government create wealth. Now the government collects taxes, which on a conservative-libertarian viewpoint, and one I at least partially agree with, is theft. The government then takes a significant portion of the taxes, and exchanges it for say, high-tech airplains from Boeing. Because the taxes are taken by force, is wealth created in this scenario?
Also, coming from an anarchist viewpoint, communism is practice is more like what I think would be the end result of fascism: One big corporation that owns everything. Except in the case of Communism, the government takes on the role of the corporation.
Anarchism is described by some as a Libertarian-Socialism. While there are few examples of this on a large scale, there are also situations that can exist within our capitalist-democracy. One might be a library that is entirely voluntire funded. I could suggest that gaining knowledge is wealth but I have an idea that is a little more concrete.
Suppose there is a craft center that is voluntarily funded and free for public use. If a person makes use of this craft center to make something, say pottery or clothing, and then goes out and sell those goods, has wealth been created?
No one has lost anything by force, and goods have been exchanged for money which I would say counts as creating wealth under your definition. In this scenario wealth has been created in a libertarian-socialist context.
I haven't gotten into Japanese noise yet, but have heard of it. When I was on emusic.com I did download a couple of various artists noise albums that included Japanese artists.
What I can say is that a performance of an Oakland project Noisegate is also in my top 10 performances. It was so loud I had earplugs and my hands over my ears for the entire 30 minutes of their performance. You didn't exactly listen to it as much as feel it. They had a guitar and two keyboardists (I think) but you wouldn't be able to tell there was a guitar from listening to a recording of it.
Noise isn't high on my music priorities, but there are some noise projects that do really impress me.
I'll have to check out this Merzbow project. Thanks.
And who they fuck matters because? Not trying to flame or troll, as I have a feeling that by your User name, you probably are not homophobic, but still, I wanted to add something to the conversation.
Nope, I'm not in the least homophobic, and It probably doesn't matter who they fuck. I suppose I was trying to take the fun out of the trolls by causually discussing it. Then again, with Burroughs it kinda matters because he did write about aspects of his own life quite extensively.
And hey, I found out something I didn't know because an AC replied saying Laurie Anderson is married to Lou Reed. I've been meaning to get into Lou Reed for a while now. This just increases my desire to get some of his albums.
Funny that someone would mod my post flamebait, as I was not using the term gay as an insult, simply as a matter of fact.
I'm a fan of Burroughs and Giorno. John Giorno is a gay buddhist poet who uses a lot of electronics (delays mainly) in his poetry. I think all his stuff is out of print except for "You're The Guy I Want To Share My Money With" which only has two poems. And I was only able to find one other poem when searching Kazaa.
Laurie Anderson is the only I have no gossip on...
I don't know for sure, but she pretty much sets off my gay-dar. At her last concert she mentioned her partner, something I don't recall on any of her albums, all of which I own. Anyway, she didn't mention the sex of her partner, but I got the impression it's a she.
And she did a split album with William S. Burroughs and John Giorno, both of whom I know are gay so um....
But then Laurie is definately on the skinny side so I don't think I would describe her as a bull-dyke.
I'm not sure why I picked 3 women. Just the first few off the top of my head who in some way transend Classical and Avantgarde music.
I could have mentioned John Zorn but he is more between Jazz and Klezmer and Avantgarde.
Also, a project everyone can download for free is Droplift which is created by multiple peole inspired by Negativland. (Of whom everyone should have downloaded their illegal U2 single by now. It's about a little dog named Snuggles.)
I've never hard of any of these people, which was probably what you were expecting.
It doesn't suprise me but if you're into Classica I might have expected you to have heard of Wendy Carlos. Switched on Bach was the first full album made completely from a Synthesizer. It was also the first classical album to go double platnum or something.
Laurie Anderson is an Avantgarde performance artist who had a one hit wonder in the 70s (Oh Superman) which got her a 8(?) album contract with Warner Brothers with complete artistic control. Her hand-made violins include a Viophonograph which has a mount for a 7" record on it with a stylist on the bow, The tape=bow Violin which has audio tape on the bow, Zeta MIDI Violin which retrieve aduio from a sampler, a digital violin (Not sure how this is different from the MIDI), and is a Clevinger Bass a unique instrument?
Pauline Oliveros was another pioneer in electronic music. In her early days she was particularly inspired by the frogs in a bog near the studio she created music in. She did many variations on a theme based on this. You probably wouldn't like this stuff because I would describe it as electronic noise.
You might like her Deep Listening project which uses such instruments as accordion, trombones, didjeridu, garden hose, organ, flutes, and electronics. This music is Ambient, very relaxing, but most songs do not have a discernable rhythm or melody.
(About Not Breathing) I listened to a little bit of it, but it sounded pretty much like your typical samples over percussion loop techno.
The stuff on the website is more unreleased stuff for the fans, and is more just messing around. If you were to search Kazaa for a song I would recommend Sacred Relapse from The Starry Wisdom.
I don't know how you can even bear to mention that kind of crap in the same sentence as classical
Well, for one thing I am interested in all sorts of music, just about everything except top 40. In recent years I've become completely bored with most guitar oriented music. Another thing is I'm more into Industrial than Techno, and would classify Not Breating as being more Industrial. That is heavily influenced by the fact that my first experience with them was seeing them live, warming up for Pigface, joined by Mike Spybey and people playing accoustic instruments including didjeridu. The first song started really slowly and kept building and building into a crescendo. I count it among the 10 most incredible performances I've witnessed, and it blew away the main act.
which is the absolute hardest genre to execute due to the fine degree of dynamic and tempo control and sensitivity that every single musician on stage has to have.
Well, are you talking a Symphony, an Ensemble, a quartet or a solo act? I've witnessed a string quartet perform Bach, followed up with Avantgarde "noise" including screaching, and being very impressed with both works so to speak.
Yet another thing is that Industrial music has a lot of inspiration from modern classical music such as John Cage and Pierre Schaffer. So there is an evolution from classical music to the Avantgarde and Industrial musics.
Interesting note of the day, it's not always an even twelve tone scale. The half step is not the smallest unit of pitch. Microtonal music can go down to quarter steps, but it requires incredible skill to be able to manipulate pitches in ranges that small.
You mean like Gyorgy Ligeti? If so then yea, I heard it in the store one day and had to buy it. Very cool stuff.
Maybe the music this/. article is talking about specifically isn't in the same league, but I'm usually interested in experimental music, even if it is being weird for weirdness's sake. After listening I decide if I actually like it or not. And there is experimental music that I dislike. I just find it interesting in general, and like to check new stuff out.
Hell, it has Clarinets in it and I used to play one
You might not appreciate the way it is played by them but yea, I love reed instruments, and I bought myself a Clarinet and have been wanting to learn to play it.
Also out of curiosity, have you ever listened to John Zorn, who is probably more famous for noise projects, but also does some really cool Klezmer-Jazz music?
Even in the noise projects I think he primarily plays Saxophone.
Were Teddy Ruxpins still around when Enter Sandman came out?
Reminds me of at a place where I worked they had a toy singing Christmas Tree. I can't stand Christmas Music for personal reasons, but to make a long story short I really wanted to put in a tape of Current 93, especially their gothic folk music stuff. (Not as much for the spooky noise. Falling Back in Fields of Rape might be appropriate.)
Never did it. Would probably get me fired. Example Lyrics. I particularly like Hourglass which has accoustic guitar, flute, chello, violin, and really intense vocals.
On a side note, I am so sick and fucking tired of electronic "music." I don't know about you, but I want my music to be played by a fucking MUSICIAN, wielding an instrument like an extension of his body and putting all the feel and soul into it that ONLY a human can.
OK, so how do you feel about Laurie Anderson , who plays hand-made experimental violins and Pauline Oliveros , who plays Accordian, but not in such a way that you can tell it is an accordian?
And out of curiosity, how do you feel about the music of Wendy Carlos, especially the Switched On Bach series?
I like and have a very large collection of classical music, I just like other music too, and some of it is quite weird, but usually more complicated than "a bunch of wav files you strung together in Acid" (Although that makes me wonder if you've listened to Not Breathing.)
And for clarification, part of what I meant about the limitations of octive based music was looking at stuff like eastern music.
That is worse than techno. I mean, it sounds like someone took a cat and pluged said cat into the wall. That isn't music, it is noise.
I haven't checked out the sites yet, does that mean they have mp3s to download (look of excitement).
You probably wouldn't like the song Ethno Techno Squeako Skweeko by God is my Co-Pilot. It is a 3 minute song that sounds kinda like Techno, but with Clarinet and lots of squeaky toys.
Some people find it annoying but it is one of my favorite songs of theirs. Most of their music I would describe as noisey punk rock.
If that's all it takes to be called music, then I'm going to record all the noises my car makes and sell a CD of it.
Actually, there is an entire genre of modern-classical music, Pioneered by Pierre Schaeffer where the music is made primarily, or exclusively from found sound. It celebrated it's 50th anniversary a couple years ago or something.
A show on a local radio show does Musique Concrete once a month. One of my favorite shows was musick made entirely from train sounds. It's funny that I thought of that from a slashdot article posted earlier today.
Usually the sounds are manipulated in one way or another.
The music that this article talks about is not Musique Concrete, but it is experimental music that would probably be appreciated by the same people.
Slashdot Mirror
I saw something on TV recently that said that while 10 years ago most people used Bicycles in China, that now cars are becoming the norm, including SUVs.
Between that and almost no environmental standards is making an environmental disaster. Cars aren't the only problem. It is probably the factories that are the biggest factor. They said that currently for manufacturing they are primarly using coal, because China has one of the biggest resources of coal.
Then again, if the current trend of exporting all our jobs to China continues our economy will collapse and China will be the first world. But then we are the ones buying so much stuff from the Chinese, so who will support their economy if ours collapses? Maybe China will start exporting jobs to us?
Nothing happens in a bubble, but regardless we cannot continue indefinately with an economy that depends on cheap fosil fuels. Sooner or later somethings gotta give.
Sometimes I think I was happier without a car. The reasons I like having a car is when I want to go out of town, when I have to move something too heavy or big to carry on my back, or when I just don't have time to bike it. Going to places with friends is also nice. When I got my car a couple years ago I told myself my bicycle would still be my primary transportation. But I got lazy and started using my car a lot more when I could have as easily biked it.
I've spent more of my adult life without a car than with. When I still had a job I biked to work every day, even after getting the car. Now I'm unemployed and out of shape. At least the high gas prices has me on my bike a lot more lately and I'm getting back in shape.
Can I use Oil No 4 to oil my chain?
(Gotta have something on topic in my post right?)
I heard on Talk Radio (so take this with a grain of salt) that the federal oil reserve is at 98% which is the highest it's ever been. They were suggesting that it's time the feds step in to ease the prices. I'm guessing the current administration wants to wait until we are closer to November.
I don't know how often this comes up, but how long does it take to ship oil from the middle east? Four Months? But OPEC only just recently made the decision to reduce oil production to drive up the price, and we see the prices at the pump go up immediately.
Also, I live in Oregon, and from what I understand, we get most of our oil from Alaska, so why should OPEC affect our prices? Well, I have a good idea why but like asking rhetorical questions.
Maybe this will have a possitive affect and people will stop driving those stupid SUVs. Or maybe we'll get Biodiesil SUVs?
How much longer until we are using cars like on The Flinstons?
Is Oil No 4 related to Biodiesil?
If not what is it used for?
I have a friend who is starting up a new business selling biodiesil farm equipment to farmers. I should probably RTFA, but if they are using stuff that is otherwise being thrown away as waste, it should be a good thing.
This reminds me of some sort of virus many years ago that claimed to turn a CD ROM drive into a CDR drive.
With this at least it is already a writer.
But I wouldn't rush to be the first to try it out.
Wait a few days and when people start posting "Oh fsck!" messages you'll know not to try it.
But then I still don't have a DVD burner so it is a moot point in this case.
Ken Lay did it to the tune of several billion dollars in California so I'd say it's very possible.
There's a big difference between petty theft, (or would this be Grand Theft Server?) and fraud and embezzlement. And somewhere in there might be an explanation for why Ken Lay is not in prison.
At the last company I used to work for they once showed us a video about the importance of information privacy, and how social engineering works. In this particular example, the person would have been caught right away because he was wearing a suit. No one wears a suit on our floor, unless they're having a job interview, or meeting with the executives or something.
The reality is that most medium sized companies can be vulnerable to social engineering. In most cases the weak point in any security system is going to be on the human level. When you work with people you have to have some element of trust to make things more efficient.
You might need a security badge to get by a security desk, and a key card to get onto the floor. But people sometimes loose their badges and keycards and will be let by just this once.
If you can get into the cafateria without any security stuff you can just go to lunch there for a couple weeks, get to know people's name who work in the IS departments, and maybe even come across a dropped security badge. You can then fordge your own to get to the elevators, and then wait for someone else to open the door to get by needing a keycard. (Assuming the badge you came across didn't also have the person's keycard.)
Then getting information out might be easy. And at the company I used to work for you could probably steal hadware just by putting it on a cart. We had multiple buildings so it was common for people to be carting PCs from building to building. How many security guards would recognize the difference between a PC and a server?
Unless you have security guards that require written permission for every single hardware move your hardware is not going to be 100% safe. And unless you have a zero tollerance policy on holding the door open for someone, your information is not safe. How many companies are willing to do this?
A nerd-less version of Slashdot.
Are you saying there are no Nerds in Japan?
Or that nerds in Japan aren't really into 2ch?
Funny, I thought that was the whole point of the GPL, it is so free, you can make money off of it.
But I think it will be a while yet until we see Linux take over AIX. But it would be nice to have smit on linux.
This reminds me of a quote in someone's
Primarily what I want is software that doesn't suck.
If it is GPLed too all the better.
If IBM makes a profit from it good for them.
If I can make a profit from it then I'm really happy
People talk about Microsoft competitors yet they raise company names like Sun, Real, or Netscape.
I would guess that this is because before Microsoft was the big evil corporation that is going to take over the world, IBM was.
The difference being that IBM cut down dramatically on acts that could potentially be interpreted as anti-competative, and maybe even took a step back. I remember some IBM people telling me that IBM made a lot of bussiness mistakes in the late 80s early 90s. This might or might not be related to the IBM anti-trust trial, but before then they had stopped being quite so ruthless.
The difference between IBM's and Microsoft's anti-trust trials were I don't think IBM ever got convicted, and they cut it out anyway so it became a moot point, while Microsoft was convicted, but nothing is being done to tame them.
IBM is the only company in the world that could realistically engage in a multi-front competitive battle with Microsoft.
True, and one would hope that an IBM monopoly would at least write better software than Microsoft. And they are supporting Linux right now so they might be content to share the wealth, as long as they are still making buckets of money themselves, and not force the entire world to use crappy software.
What's the difference between Spyware and a Virus or a trojan horse?
Why is it that a company can get away with what a script kiddie would get thrown in jail for?
And are they still going to threaten to sue people who call Gator, excuse me, Claria Spyware?
And might as well throw out a stupid-patent joke out there.....
Do they own a patent on using computer viruses to make money on the internet?
Force cannot logically create wealth. Slavery represents only a transfer of wealth (the slaves' labor) to the aggressors. The aggressors gain exactly what the slaves lose. The net result is zero wealth created.
This rather reminds me of a passage from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy explaining why the population of the Universe is none.
Still, I would like to play devil's advocate with you're analogy and ask the question, does government create wealth. Now the government collects taxes, which on a conservative-libertarian viewpoint, and one I at least partially agree with, is theft. The government then takes a significant portion of the taxes, and exchanges it for say, high-tech airplains from Boeing. Because the taxes are taken by force, is wealth created in this scenario?
Also, coming from an anarchist viewpoint, communism is practice is more like what I think would be the end result of fascism: One big corporation that owns everything. Except in the case of Communism, the government takes on the role of the corporation.
Anarchism is described by some as a Libertarian-Socialism. While there are few examples of this on a large scale, there are also situations that can exist within our capitalist-democracy. One might be a library that is entirely voluntire funded. I could suggest that gaining knowledge is wealth but I have an idea that is a little more concrete.
Suppose there is a craft center that is voluntarily funded and free for public use. If a person makes use of this craft center to make something, say pottery or clothing, and then goes out and sell those goods, has wealth been created?
No one has lost anything by force, and goods have been exchanged for money which I would say counts as creating wealth under your definition. In this scenario wealth has been created in a libertarian-socialist context.
I haven't gotten into Japanese noise yet, but have heard of it. When I was on emusic.com I did download a couple of various artists noise albums that included Japanese artists.
What I can say is that a performance of an Oakland project Noisegate is also in my top 10 performances. It was so loud I had earplugs and my hands over my ears for the entire 30 minutes of their performance. You didn't exactly listen to it as much as feel it. They had a guitar and two keyboardists (I think) but you wouldn't be able to tell there was a guitar from listening to a recording of it.
Noise isn't high on my music priorities, but there are some noise projects that do really impress me.
I'll have to check out this Merzbow project. Thanks.
And who they fuck matters because? Not trying to flame or troll, as I have a feeling that by your User name, you probably are not homophobic, but still, I wanted to add something to the conversation.
Nope, I'm not in the least homophobic, and It probably doesn't matter who they fuck. I suppose I was trying to take the fun out of the trolls by causually discussing it. Then again, with Burroughs it kinda matters because he did write about aspects of his own life quite extensively.
And hey, I found out something I didn't know because an AC replied saying Laurie Anderson is married to Lou Reed. I've been meaning to get into Lou Reed for a while now. This just increases my desire to get some of his albums.
Funny that someone would mod my post flamebait, as I was not using the term gay as an insult, simply as a matter of fact.
I'm a fan of Burroughs and Giorno. John Giorno is a gay buddhist poet who uses a lot of electronics (delays mainly) in his poetry. I think all his stuff is out of print except for "You're The Guy I Want To Share My Money With" which only has two poems. And I was only able to find one other poem when searching Kazaa.
Wow, the anonymous cowards are out in force tonight, aren't they (referring to the first replies to both your post and to mine)? How peevish they are.
Yea, I would have left for a party an hour ago but I enjoy discussing experimental music almost as much as I do listening to it.
OMIGOD! LOOK!
I thought I saw Bakunin's ghost... realistically, though, I probably didn't.
Goodnight everyone!
Laurie Anderson is the only I have no gossip on...
I don't know for sure, but she pretty much sets off my gay-dar. At her last concert she mentioned her partner, something I don't recall on any of her albums, all of which I own. Anyway, she didn't mention the sex of her partner, but I got the impression it's a she.
And she did a split album with William S. Burroughs and John Giorno, both of whom I know are gay so um....
But then Laurie is definately on the skinny side so I don't think I would describe her as a bull-dyke.
I'm not sure why I picked 3 women. Just the first few off the top of my head who in some way transend Classical and Avantgarde music.
I could have mentioned John Zorn but he is more between Jazz and Klezmer and Avantgarde.
Anyone still subscribed to Emusic.com can download Symphony #2 for Dot Matrix Printers as well as Xerophonics.
Also, a project everyone can download for free is Droplift which is created by multiple peole inspired by Negativland. (Of whom everyone should have downloaded their illegal U2 single by now. It's about a little dog named Snuggles.)
I've never hard of any of these people, which was probably what you were expecting.
/. article is talking about specifically isn't in the same league, but I'm usually interested in experimental music, even if it is being weird for weirdness's sake. After listening I decide if I actually like it or not. And there is experimental music that I dislike. I just find it interesting in general, and like to check new stuff out.
It doesn't suprise me but if you're into Classica I might have expected you to have heard of Wendy Carlos. Switched on Bach was the first full album made completely from a Synthesizer. It was also the first classical album to go double platnum or something.
Laurie Anderson is an Avantgarde performance artist who had a one hit wonder in the 70s (Oh Superman) which got her a 8(?) album contract with Warner Brothers with complete artistic control. Her hand-made violins include a Viophonograph which has a mount for a 7" record on it with a stylist on the bow, The tape=bow Violin which has audio tape on the bow, Zeta MIDI Violin which retrieve aduio from a sampler, a digital violin (Not sure how this is different from the MIDI), and is a Clevinger Bass a unique instrument?
Pauline Oliveros was another pioneer in electronic music. In her early days she was particularly inspired by the frogs in a bog near the studio she created music in. She did many variations on a theme based on this. You probably wouldn't like this stuff because I would describe it as electronic noise.
You might like her Deep Listening project which uses such instruments as accordion, trombones, didjeridu, garden hose, organ, flutes, and electronics. This music is Ambient, very relaxing, but most songs do not have a discernable rhythm or melody.
(About Not Breathing) I listened to a little bit of it, but it sounded pretty much like your typical samples over percussion loop techno.
The stuff on the website is more unreleased stuff for the fans, and is more just messing around. If you were to search Kazaa for a song I would recommend Sacred Relapse from The Starry Wisdom.
I don't know how you can even bear to mention that kind of crap in the same sentence as classical
Well, for one thing I am interested in all sorts of music, just about everything except top 40. In recent years I've become completely bored with most guitar oriented music. Another thing is I'm more into Industrial than Techno, and would classify Not Breating as being more Industrial. That is heavily influenced by the fact that my first experience with them was seeing them live, warming up for Pigface, joined by Mike Spybey and people playing accoustic instruments including didjeridu. The first song started really slowly and kept building and building into a crescendo. I count it among the 10 most incredible performances I've witnessed, and it blew away the main act.
which is the absolute hardest genre to execute due to the fine degree of dynamic and tempo control and sensitivity that every single musician on stage has to have.
Well, are you talking a Symphony, an Ensemble, a quartet or a solo act? I've witnessed a string quartet perform Bach, followed up with Avantgarde "noise" including screaching, and being very impressed with both works so to speak.
Yet another thing is that Industrial music has a lot of inspiration from modern classical music such as John Cage and Pierre Schaffer. So there is an evolution from classical music to the Avantgarde and Industrial musics.
Interesting note of the day, it's not always an even twelve tone scale. The half step is not the smallest unit of pitch. Microtonal music can go down to quarter steps, but it requires incredible skill to be able to manipulate pitches in ranges that small.
You mean like Gyorgy Ligeti?
If so then yea, I heard it in the store one day and had to buy it. Very cool stuff.
Maybe the music this
Hell, it has Clarinets in it and I used to play one
You might not appreciate the way it is played by them but yea, I love reed instruments, and I bought myself a Clarinet and have been wanting to learn to play it.
Also out of curiosity, have you ever listened to John Zorn, who is probably more famous for noise projects, but also does some really cool Klezmer-Jazz music?
Even in the noise projects I think he primarily plays Saxophone.
Were Teddy Ruxpins still around when Enter Sandman came out?
Reminds me of at a place where I worked they had a toy singing Christmas Tree. I can't stand Christmas Music for personal reasons, but to make a long story short I really wanted to put in a tape of Current 93, especially their gothic folk music stuff. (Not as much for the spooky noise. Falling Back in Fields of Rape might be appropriate.)
Never did it. Would probably get me fired. Example Lyrics. I particularly like Hourglass which has accoustic guitar, flute, chello, violin, and really intense vocals.
Also, if you like instruments that you hold in your hand, here is a gallery of all sorts of really weird instruments.
On a side note, I am so sick and fucking tired of electronic "music." I don't know about you, but I want my music to be played by a fucking MUSICIAN, wielding an instrument like an extension of his body and putting all the feel and soul into it that ONLY a human can.
OK, so how do you feel about Laurie Anderson , who plays hand-made experimental violins and Pauline Oliveros , who plays Accordian, but not in such a way that you can tell it is an accordian?
And out of curiosity, how do you feel about the music of Wendy Carlos, especially the Switched On Bach series?
I like and have a very large collection of classical music, I just like other music too, and some of it is quite weird, but usually more complicated than "a bunch of wav files you strung together in Acid" (Although that makes me wonder if you've listened to Not Breathing.)
And for clarification, part of what I meant about the limitations of octive based music was looking at stuff like eastern music.
That is worse than techno. I mean, it sounds like someone took a cat and pluged said cat into the wall. That isn't music, it is noise.
I haven't checked out the sites yet, does that mean they have mp3s to download (look of excitement).
You probably wouldn't like the song Ethno Techno Squeako Skweeko by God is my Co-Pilot. It is a 3 minute song that sounds kinda like Techno, but with Clarinet and lots of squeaky toys.
Some people find it annoying but it is one of my favorite songs of theirs. Most of their music I would describe as noisey punk rock.
If that's all it takes to be called music, then I'm going to record all the noises my car makes and sell a CD of it.
Actually, there is an entire genre of modern-classical music, Pioneered by Pierre Schaeffer where the music is made primarily, or exclusively from found sound. It celebrated it's 50th anniversary a couple years ago or something.
A show on a local radio show does Musique Concrete once a month. One of my favorite shows was musick made entirely from train sounds. It's funny that I thought of that from a slashdot article posted earlier today.
Usually the sounds are manipulated in one way or another.
The music that this article talks about is not Musique Concrete, but it is experimental music that would probably be appreciated by the same people.
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Try listening to Einstuerzende Neubauten. I'm sure that they've used something that sounds like that in at least one of their songs.
And that way you can save yourself another keyboard.