Childish is clearly not the same as good behaviour by children, and mud slinging does sum up your behaviour on previous threads very well. Also "mass debate" is somewhat of an insulting bad pun connecting personal ego massaging in threads like this and onanism. I was not suggesting you were using proper debate methods at all - I was calling you a complete and utter wanker.
Besides, your premise that the Irish economy is a house of cards built on this loophole is utterly ridiculous and is not supported by the people you are name dropping. I really do not see what you get out of being so misleading other than attention.
You are putting words into their mouths just as you did with me. How pathetic. I really do not get why you want to bring childish "conservative" (in fake label only) student political bullshit to a tech site like this. How about being honest instead of using pathetic little dirty tricks from the mass debating playbook?
But if you bring a risk of crashing someone's economy down because of it
I'm trying to make the point that this loophole alone makes effectively no contribution to the economy of Ireland thus your doomsday fantasy does not apply. You need to refute that point for your extraordinary claim to be credible.
You are full on tunnel vision in any ideology you take
Since I haven't done anything other than question one of your character flaws and your active spreading of misinformation in my replies to you my ideology has not been on show at all. Perhaps you should consider if that ideology trumping reality comment applies to yourself before using such rubbish as bullying pre-emptive insults.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... Note full daylight (not direct sun) and how the above poster is pretending the sunrise value is still the amount of ambient light several hours after sunrise. This stupid "ends justifies the means" bullshit to try to bring down one alternative energy seen as a rival to the fanboy's choice of alternative energy is pathetic. If you like nuclear then sing it's praises instead of slandering what you see as the other team.
So enough energy for an eight degree temperature rise is nothing? WTF is it with reality denial every fucking time something that doesn't conform to the Tea Party line is mentioned? Fuck off with the condescending bit about a log scale - I bet you are not old enough to have even seen a book of log tables and you are attempting to apply an exponential scale to a situation where it does not apply as clearly shown by my example above. Eight degrees with very little energy input? That's very childish magical thinking.
So closing this loophole that is a very small part of the situation brings the entire thing crashing down? You cannot be so stupid as to believe that - why are you pushing this "all doomed if anything changes" line?
Ah yes - I get it now - "nuclear is far better" instead of a more realistic "nuclear is theoretically far better if a nuclear industry is restarted with modern plants and we have a few decades to build capacity" shows where you are coming from. It's a childish little fight between an advocate of one alternative energy and other alternative energies that have had the audacity to progress due to having a lower cost of entry. That explains the stupid fabrications and evasions above - anything is allowable to cheer on the team.
Why didn't you answer when I asked you to try again? It was quite bright at 9am which is obviously related to the temperature rise. How does that fit in with your "9AM, you're not going to be powering anything with solar" and your very strange and very unrealistic numbers unless it's dawn as late as 9am but downright tropicial at noon - very clearly made up.
You again? I suggest you look up the topic in question and you'll find out that Ireland gets little or no benefit from that specific tax loophole. I really don't understand what you are trying to do with your "all doomed if anything changes" attitude on a variety of topics especially when it defies what everyone can observe within a minute of background reading.
Since most of the world's population are concentrated towards the equator that just indicates you either do not understand that your objection is mostly irrelevant or you are pretending to misunderstand to push an invalid point. True - solar is going to really suck in Alaska, Siberia and probably even Seattle but in a lot of places it's a nice addition to the energy mix in daytime when people are working and using up a lot of electricity.
but to be truly autonomous with no grid support, you need a lot of capacity.
Is that a goalpost shift to an unreasonably difficult standard I see there? Who said anything about that datacentre going completely off grid?
Molten salts of various types have been used on an industrial scale for steel heat treatment since the late 19th century. A bit about warming them up, cooling them down and so on has been picked up over that time.
And then consider that not everywhere has the ideal conditions that are found in Arizona.
You are correct, it is unlikely to work at your desk in an airconditioned office in the middle of a city. Meanwhile there are coal fired power stations already using solar thermal for preheating and things like molten salt storage are the obvious next step. The world is moving on even if you cannot tell from your desk.
Yes I see your point but it does not appear to have any worth at all. Please stop using a bit of technology as a proxy for some mindless political pissing contest and instead have the courage to attack the political tribe you dislike directly.
All it takes is a local utility that's exploiting it's monopoly and doing some serious price gouging for the panels to pay themselves off in a few years - and that applies in a depressingly large number of places. Now if it was the utility themselves with the panels that's a much longer payback time. The gap between generating costs and retail price is enormous nearly everywhere and keeps increasing. Where I live it can be as low as 3 cents per kilowatt hour for the wholesale rate and in excess of 30 cents per kilowatt hour for the retail price, and it's being approved for an increase before the end of the year. That has led to a lot of people in my area getting solar panels.
or even 9AM, you're not going to be powering anything with solar
Where I am today it was 12C at 5am and 20C at 9am. One guess as to where the heat came from.
I really don't get why people pretend to be stupid just as part of a shell game to fool people into accepting their politics - or in this case a cowardly attack on some technology seen as a proxy for the other side's politics instead of going for the politics directly. It's pathetic.
A massive chunk of the energy requirements for a datacentre is getting the heat out of the place. Using solar thermal heat pumps works at that sort of industrial scale and it's now commercial instead of just experimental.
A recent thing from there is a discovery that a lot of proteins react differently when there is no gravity. If you can't see major implications in that you are not trying.
I get paid by the coal, oil and occasionally uranium mining industries but that doesn't stop me from being honest and admitting that there may be a niche for wind. I really do not get these fake conservatives that have decided they they want to lie and be unprofessional just to help me and others in the industry out. It's pointless and they are just making themselves look like slimy weasels.
Actually it is a simple problem because it is the number you know you need as distinct from the peaks that you can only estimate and have spare capacity for.
You build a 50MW coal plant to handle 50MW spikes
I've worked on a 60MW unit built in the late 1960s and the thing was so tiny that there was only a space to crawl in at the top of the boiler where the headers were. In modern plants that space is around ten metres. Add a zero to your 50 if you want to be taken seriously. Even a passenger jet engine can do 40MW.
Wind power IS a vast spinning reserve most of the time. We're also sitting on a vast number of gas turbines for peaking power that take almost no time to spin up. Power networks are designed for days of maximum usage plus a bit more, plus often some wriggle room in case one of the largest units on the grid at such a time. So much fuss about one of many things in the energy mix. I'm sick of this bullshit of cowards just using an item of technology as a proxy to attack a political viewpoint instead of going after that viewpoint directly. Like it or not, windmills are mainstream now and owned by Republicans as well as Greens.
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Childish is clearly not the same as good behaviour by children, and mud slinging does sum up your behaviour on previous threads very well. Also "mass debate" is somewhat of an insulting bad pun connecting personal ego massaging in threads like this and onanism. I was not suggesting you were using proper debate methods at all - I was calling you a complete and utter wanker.
Besides, your premise that the Irish economy is a house of cards built on this loophole is utterly ridiculous and is not supported by the people you are name dropping. I really do not see what you get out of being so misleading other than attention.
Seriously dude, just step outside of your cave full of albino fish - oh wait, you are not ignorant, you are lying.
You are putting words into their mouths just as you did with me. How pathetic.
I really do not get why you want to bring childish "conservative" (in fake label only) student political bullshit to a tech site like this. How about being honest instead of using pathetic little dirty tricks from the mass debating playbook?
I'm trying to make the point that this loophole alone makes effectively no contribution to the economy of Ireland thus your doomsday fantasy does not apply. You need to refute that point for your extraordinary claim to be credible.
Since I haven't done anything other than question one of your character flaws and your active spreading of misinformation in my replies to you my ideology has not been on show at all. Perhaps you should consider if that ideology trumping reality comment applies to yourself before using such rubbish as bullying pre-emptive insults.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
Note full daylight (not direct sun) and how the above poster is pretending the sunrise value is still the amount of ambient light several hours after sunrise.
This stupid "ends justifies the means" bullshit to try to bring down one alternative energy seen as a rival to the fanboy's choice of alternative energy is pathetic. If you like nuclear then sing it's praises instead of slandering what you see as the other team.
So enough energy for an eight degree temperature rise is nothing? WTF is it with reality denial every fucking time something that doesn't conform to the Tea Party line is mentioned? Fuck off with the condescending bit about a log scale - I bet you are not old enough to have even seen a book of log tables and you are attempting to apply an exponential scale to a situation where it does not apply as clearly shown by my example above. Eight degrees with very little energy input? That's very childish magical thinking.
So closing this loophole that is a very small part of the situation brings the entire thing crashing down? You cannot be so stupid as to believe that - why are you pushing this "all doomed if anything changes" line?
Ah yes - I get it now - "nuclear is far better" instead of a more realistic "nuclear is theoretically far better if a nuclear industry is restarted with modern plants and we have a few decades to build capacity" shows where you are coming from. It's a childish little fight between an advocate of one alternative energy and other alternative energies that have had the audacity to progress due to having a lower cost of entry. That explains the stupid fabrications and evasions above - anything is allowable to cheer on the team.
Why didn't you answer when I asked you to try again? It was quite bright at 9am which is obviously related to the temperature rise. How does that fit in with your "9AM, you're not going to be powering anything with solar" and your very strange and very unrealistic numbers unless it's dawn as late as 9am but downright tropicial at noon - very clearly made up.
You again? I suggest you look up the topic in question and you'll find out that Ireland gets little or no benefit from that specific tax loophole.
I really don't understand what you are trying to do with your "all doomed if anything changes" attitude on a variety of topics especially when it defies what everyone can observe within a minute of background reading.
Try again without the sleight of hand.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam,"
Since most of the world's population are concentrated towards the equator that just indicates you either do not understand that your objection is mostly irrelevant or you are pretending to misunderstand to push an invalid point. True - solar is going to really suck in Alaska, Siberia and probably even Seattle but in a lot of places it's a nice addition to the energy mix in daytime when people are working and using up a lot of electricity.
Is that a goalpost shift to an unreasonably difficult standard I see there? Who said anything about that datacentre going completely off grid?
Molten salts of various types have been used on an industrial scale for steel heat treatment since the late 19th century. A bit about warming them up, cooling them down and so on has been picked up over that time.
You are correct, it is unlikely to work at your desk in an airconditioned office in the middle of a city. Meanwhile there are coal fired power stations already using solar thermal for preheating and things like molten salt storage are the obvious next step. The world is moving on even if you cannot tell from your desk.
Yes I see your point but it does not appear to have any worth at all.
Please stop using a bit of technology as a proxy for some mindless political pissing contest and instead have the courage to attack the political tribe you dislike directly.
All it takes is a local utility that's exploiting it's monopoly and doing some serious price gouging for the panels to pay themselves off in a few years - and that applies in a depressingly large number of places.
Now if it was the utility themselves with the panels that's a much longer payback time. The gap between generating costs and retail price is enormous nearly everywhere and keeps increasing. Where I live it can be as low as 3 cents per kilowatt hour for the wholesale rate and in excess of 30 cents per kilowatt hour for the retail price, and it's being approved for an increase before the end of the year.
That has led to a lot of people in my area getting solar panels.
Where I am today it was 12C at 5am and 20C at 9am. One guess as to where the heat came from.
I really don't get why people pretend to be stupid just as part of a shell game to fool people into accepting their politics - or in this case a cowardly attack on some technology seen as a proxy for the other side's politics instead of going for the politics directly. It's pathetic.
A massive chunk of the energy requirements for a datacentre is getting the heat out of the place. Using solar thermal heat pumps works at that sort of industrial scale and it's now commercial instead of just experimental.
Bullshit. If there's ever enough solar for that to matter do you really think it's all going to be in one place?
A recent thing from there is a discovery that a lot of proteins react differently when there is no gravity. If you can't see major implications in that you are not trying.
I get paid by the coal, oil and occasionally uranium mining industries but that doesn't stop me from being honest and admitting that there may be a niche for wind. I really do not get these fake conservatives that have decided they they want to lie and be unprofessional just to help me and others in the industry out.
It's pointless and they are just making themselves look like slimy weasels.
Maybe if you have a second windmill somewhere - maybe even in another state since grids are big.
Look at a weather map guys.
Actually it is a simple problem because it is the number you know you need as distinct from the peaks that you can only estimate and have spare capacity for.
I've worked on a 60MW unit built in the late 1960s and the thing was so tiny that there was only a space to crawl in at the top of the boiler where the headers were. In modern plants that space is around ten metres. Add a zero to your 50 if you want to be taken seriously. Even a passenger jet engine can do 40MW.
in case one of the largest units on the grid is down at such a time.
Wind power IS a vast spinning reserve most of the time.
We're also sitting on a vast number of gas turbines for peaking power that take almost no time to spin up. Power networks are designed for days of maximum usage plus a bit more, plus often some wriggle room in case one of the largest units on the grid at such a time.
So much fuss about one of many things in the energy mix. I'm sick of this bullshit of cowards just using an item of technology as a proxy to attack a political viewpoint instead of going after that viewpoint directly. Like it or not, windmills are mainstream now and owned by Republicans as well as Greens.