additional costs to nuclear... when in fact reprocessing reduces that to almost zero
I suggest you actually look up the current sate of reprocessing, especially the cutting edge MOX stuff at Harford. It's better to get in touch with some reality instead of dreams of it happening at zero cost, you'll understand then why there is still plenty of exploration for cheap to extract ore instead of a real process with real costs before it can produce real fuel. Setting to bar to unicorn farts and rainbows doesn't do anything other than annoy people.
If you have enough of the things and they are spread out then the load is not bursty. Grids are huge and span states or small nations. Apparently the best thing to do with the things is have them as spinning reserve during offpeak times and bring them on one at a time when needed as the peak rises - utterly trivial with modern control systems. In wind farms they are designed to be worked on independently after all.
Heh. By golly, once it's in your agenda, whatever it takes, eh?
And it really pisses me off when such "whatever it takes" political losers pollute this site and attempt to blame their end justifies the means bullshit on others. Pretending to be far too stupid to have any sense of scale (giant, spinning blades; stretching as far as the eye can see) is an added touch that makes me despair that we've wasted a generation and not protected them from weasels with propaganda. When did this place turn into an anti-technology site for idiots who wallowed in student politics and never grew up? Why do "conservative" losers who make fun of others interest in wildlife conservation suddenly pretend to get worried about a trivial number of birds running into a couple of thousand windmills spread over a vast continent? Fuck the tendency to treat various bits of technology as proxies for political parties - stop being cowards and address the politics directly on sites dedicated to such a thing and please leave this place as somewhere to discuss the technology on it's own merits.
Well I strongly disagree because the thing isn't very small, 2kW isn't a lot of power and the thing has electricity going into it anyway. Unplug the power and I'd consider it more than a magicians trick. Allow simple, accurate and cheap thermocouples on it instead of mucking about with optical pyrometers (also known as IR thermometers) and I'd be a hell of a lot less suspicious. I've probably written all I can add about why I don't trust it, but I'm probably a bit more cynical than many since I've come in contact with two technology scams and a misguided paranoid that thought he'd come up with a very simple engine modification to save vast amounts of fuel (and it did actually do that - while idling - he hadn't caught on that engines are tuned to operate well under load).
Fair enough, but please consider those 2kW heating elements that could easily be powered from a standard socket, let alone three phase power. That should show you the true scale and not the " "orders of magnitude" more power output than any known chemical source" that you've been misled into imagining.
It's not the time to put them down for inferiority - wait until the US has something that is putting people in space again and then try. Trying the "master race" shit without even a horse in the race is just embarrassing and actually brings the country down.
It's worth keeping in mind that the inventor supplied the devices that measured both the input and the output and the observers just had to take it on trust that they were reporting the correct numbers. It would be trivial for the "starting current" to just keep on going and drive 2kW resistance heater like these: http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/electric-heating-element-2kw-heating-tube.html Some of those would definitely fit in the form factor.
It's nice to dream but so many things here scream "rigged demo".
It's megawatt HOURS. And yes, I damned well do know how much that is. That's very close to 1.5 times the amount of electricity used by an average U.S. home in a year.
No that's one megawatt for one hour - which is why it's an incredibly weird thing to use for a month. For the length of a month that's equivalent to 2kW for 720 hours, assuming 30 days, so a LOT less than typically household usage. If they were being honest you'd expect it to be presented in a different way so as not to mislead as it has. A more usual way of presenting things in the kW range is thousands of kilowatt hours because megawatt hours imply that more than a megawatt is being pumped out - very misleading. I think that's part of the con so don't feel bad about it catching you and making you think this thing is many orders of magnitude more energetic than it is. As much heat as implied by the con is more than 1/20 of a small jet engine so anyone nearby would be a crispy critter, and that did not happen.
Quote the relevant portion to me please where they got to isolate it without Rossi there and check for extra inputs. How about where they got to be sure that the things they examined afterwards actually came out of it and not Rossi's hands? Sorry, there's so many things wrong here that mere hope is not enough to fox it. It's a rigged demo. Just like Horvath and his water car. Whether it actually works or not can not be proven by a rigged demo. When the observers can't even bring their own measuring equipment that should ring pretty large alarm bells. A more open test could prove something, but this thing stinks on so many levels.
You are still missing it - the observers were not able isolate it enough to tell if the thing was producing it itself or if it was having something pumped in from outside. Don't think battery, think plugged into the wall socket or fed with gas. Not so fantastic now is it? Also those units are really weird - 1.5 megawatt hours over something around a 720 hour period, shouldn't that just be 2kW? An old fridge draws about that much power.
The guys who measured it, have better credentials than you.
I haven't looked them up but it's quite possible they don't. It may have been very easy to get into the ASTM in the 1990s but do these guys even have that much? The point is moot since they were not allowed to measure properly, only allowed to witness a rigged demo.
Units. It's over a MONTH. And a megawatt isn't as big as you think, single seat jet fighters from England in the 1950s used an engine that gives up to twenty megawatts when you get it to spin a generator. That's nearly fifteen thousand megawatt hours if you keep it running all month. Getting the idea now? Modern jet engines are most definitely not nuclear but can produce a vast amount more power than those old Avon jet engines used for standby power, and those tiny little Avon jets are pumping out nearly ten thousand times the power of this thing. So the Avon needs a fuel line - so what - this thing could have one too because nobody is allowed to get a close enough look to see if any of those tubes running in are carrying fuel.
If we accept that this paper is genuine, then we also have to accept that it's NOT a hoax. Because you simply can't fake "orders of magnitude" more power output than any known chemical source.
Of course you can when you have a lot of wires and tubes going into the thing and you only have someone's word about what they are carrying. It's easy to have a lot more output than observers expect if you have a lot more input than observers can see. Then there's the "spent fuel" that Rossi gets to handle before anyone else is allowed to look at it. It's all extremely suspicious even before the dodgy measurement equipment is looked at. How do we really know it's "orders of magnitude" more power output or one just hot spot on the surface? Why an expensive indirect way of measuring temperature that depends on optical properties instead of letting the witnesses put cheap thermocouples all over the thing? It's very suspicious. Horvath's car that ran on water relied on the same idea of not letting anyone close enough to get a good look at it and find the bottled gas that it was using for fuel.
Of course aviation engineers know that a bumble bee can fly - your example is just a pop culture distortion of an engineer stating that we don't know enough to make something fly the same way as a bumble bee.
A lot of artificial barriers have been put in place to stop us, or anyone other than Rossi, from being able to see which is why it looks a lot like another hoax.
U.S. Navy had been investigating similar processes for many years.
Cavitation is weird but all it has in common with this black box is the word "fusion" was suggested to try to explain some of the weirdness.
If it was me I'd have the other isotope enclosed in something that slowly dissolves over time. However Rossi probably just palmed it since he was allowed to open the device before the material taken from it was examined.
Years ago a US embassy was given a gift that did not contain a battery or any other power source. However in the presence of enough of a radio signal on a certain frequency it could induce enough current to drive a microphone and a transmitter, so could be used as a remote listening device. If I was the hoaxer in question that's the sort of thing I would do with my secret black box since the power supposedly produced by fusion is tiny - extra points if it can do it with whatever a nearby phone tower is pumping out. There are also chemical means with reactions happening slowly and releasing a bit of heat, bonus points if the isotopes expected from fusion are locked into something that slowly dissolves.
For as long as it's a black box that is being kept secret from all experts it can't be trusted. If an expert with a good reputation signs an NDA and is allowed to actually look inside the thing then it's not longer equivalent to sleight-of-hand.
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I suggest you actually look up the current sate of reprocessing, especially the cutting edge MOX stuff at Harford. It's better to get in touch with some reality instead of dreams of it happening at zero cost, you'll understand then why there is still plenty of exploration for cheap to extract ore instead of a real process with real costs before it can produce real fuel.
Setting to bar to unicorn farts and rainbows doesn't do anything other than annoy people.
If you have enough of the things and they are spread out then the load is not bursty. Grids are huge and span states or small nations.
Apparently the best thing to do with the things is have them as spinning reserve during offpeak times and bring them on one at a time when needed as the peak rises - utterly trivial with modern control systems. In wind farms they are designed to be worked on independently after all.
And it really pisses me off when such "whatever it takes" political losers pollute this site and attempt to blame their end justifies the means bullshit on others. Pretending to be far too stupid to have any sense of scale (giant, spinning blades; stretching as far as the eye can see) is an added touch that makes me despair that we've wasted a generation and not protected them from weasels with propaganda.
When did this place turn into an anti-technology site for idiots who wallowed in student politics and never grew up?
Why do "conservative" losers who make fun of others interest in wildlife conservation suddenly pretend to get worried about a trivial number of birds running into a couple of thousand windmills spread over a vast continent? Fuck the tendency to treat various bits of technology as proxies for political parties - stop being cowards and address the politics directly on sites dedicated to such a thing and please leave this place as somewhere to discuss the technology on it's own merits.
Well I strongly disagree because the thing isn't very small, 2kW isn't a lot of power and the thing has electricity going into it anyway. Unplug the power and I'd consider it more than a magicians trick. Allow simple, accurate and cheap thermocouples on it instead of mucking about with optical pyrometers (also known as IR thermometers) and I'd be a hell of a lot less suspicious.
I've probably written all I can add about why I don't trust it, but I'm probably a bit more cynical than many since I've come in contact with two technology scams and a misguided paranoid that thought he'd come up with a very simple engine modification to save vast amounts of fuel (and it did actually do that - while idling - he hadn't caught on that engines are tuned to operate well under load).
The ISS is for a lot more than propaganda.
Incredibly condescending nationalistic putdowns come across in exactly that fashion. You wrote it - live with the obvious comparison.
Fair enough, but please consider those 2kW heating elements that could easily be powered from a standard socket, let alone three phase power. That should show you the true scale and not the " "orders of magnitude" more power output than any known chemical source" that you've been misled into imagining.
Sadly even less people listened to Goddard.
It's not the time to put them down for inferiority - wait until the US has something that is putting people in space again and then try. Trying the "master race" shit without even a horse in the race is just embarrassing and actually brings the country down.
It's worth keeping in mind that the inventor supplied the devices that measured both the input and the output and the observers just had to take it on trust that they were reporting the correct numbers. It would be trivial for the "starting current" to just keep on going and drive 2kW resistance heater like these:
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/electric-heating-element-2kw-heating-tube.html
Some of those would definitely fit in the form factor.
It's nice to dream but so many things here scream "rigged demo".
Reduce it to an hour any you'll see where the misdirection lies.
No that's one megawatt for one hour - which is why it's an incredibly weird thing to use for a month. For the length of a month that's equivalent to 2kW for 720 hours, assuming 30 days, so a LOT less than typically household usage.
If they were being honest you'd expect it to be presented in a different way so as not to mislead as it has. A more usual way of presenting things in the kW range is thousands of kilowatt hours because megawatt hours imply that more than a megawatt is being pumped out - very misleading. I think that's part of the con so don't feel bad about it catching you and making you think this thing is many orders of magnitude more energetic than it is. As much heat as implied by the con is more than 1/20 of a small jet engine so anyone nearby would be a crispy critter, and that did not happen.
Quote the relevant portion to me please where they got to isolate it without Rossi there and check for extra inputs. How about where they got to be sure that the things they examined afterwards actually came out of it and not Rossi's hands? Sorry, there's so many things wrong here that mere hope is not enough to fox it.
It's a rigged demo. Just like Horvath and his water car. Whether it actually works or not can not be proven by a rigged demo. When the observers can't even bring their own measuring equipment that should ring pretty large alarm bells. A more open test could prove something, but this thing stinks on so many levels.
Also those units are really weird - 1.5 megawatt hours over something around a 720 hour period, shouldn't that just be 2kW? An old fridge draws about that much power.
I haven't looked them up but it's quite possible they don't. It may have been very easy to get into the ASTM in the 1990s but do these guys even have that much? The point is moot since they were not allowed to measure properly, only allowed to witness a rigged demo.
Units. It's over a MONTH. And a megawatt isn't as big as you think, single seat jet fighters from England in the 1950s used an engine that gives up to twenty megawatts when you get it to spin a generator. That's nearly fifteen thousand megawatt hours if you keep it running all month.
Getting the idea now? Modern jet engines are most definitely not nuclear but can produce a vast amount more power than those old Avon jet engines used for standby power, and those tiny little Avon jets are pumping out nearly ten thousand times the power of this thing. So the Avon needs a fuel line - so what - this thing could have one too because nobody is allowed to get a close enough look to see if any of those tubes running in are carrying fuel.
The problem here is the observers are kept from having a close enough look to be able to tell if it really did put out that power or not.
Of course you can when you have a lot of wires and tubes going into the thing and you only have someone's word about what they are carrying. It's easy to have a lot more output than observers expect if you have a lot more input than observers can see. Then there's the "spent fuel" that Rossi gets to handle before anyone else is allowed to look at it. It's all extremely suspicious even before the dodgy measurement equipment is looked at. How do we really know it's "orders of magnitude" more power output or one just hot spot on the surface? Why an expensive indirect way of measuring temperature that depends on optical properties instead of letting the witnesses put cheap thermocouples all over the thing? It's very suspicious. Horvath's car that ran on water relied on the same idea of not letting anyone close enough to get a good look at it and find the bottled gas that it was using for fuel.
Try shopping at Hitachi, Siemens and Brown-Boveri :)
THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO LOOK INSIDE IT.
Was that obvious enough or do I have dumb down "not being allowed to properly examine the device" a bit more?
Of course aviation engineers know that a bumble bee can fly - your example is just a pop culture distortion of an engineer stating that we don't know enough to make something fly the same way as a bumble bee.
A lot of artificial barriers have been put in place to stop us, or anyone other than Rossi, from being able to see which is why it looks a lot like another hoax.
Cavitation is weird but all it has in common with this black box is the word "fusion" was suggested to try to explain some of the weirdness.
They are being treated as such by not being allowed to properly examine the device.
From what they've been allowed to do there's no way of telling if there's a neutron emitter like the isotopes used for soil testing inside the device.
If it was me I'd have the other isotope enclosed in something that slowly dissolves over time. However Rossi probably just palmed it since he was allowed to open the device before the material taken from it was examined.
Years ago a US embassy was given a gift that did not contain a battery or any other power source. However in the presence of enough of a radio signal on a certain frequency it could induce enough current to drive a microphone and a transmitter, so could be used as a remote listening device.
If I was the hoaxer in question that's the sort of thing I would do with my secret black box since the power supposedly produced by fusion is tiny - extra points if it can do it with whatever a nearby phone tower is pumping out. There are also chemical means with reactions happening slowly and releasing a bit of heat, bonus points if the isotopes expected from fusion are locked into something that slowly dissolves.
For as long as it's a black box that is being kept secret from all experts it can't be trusted. If an expert with a good reputation signs an NDA and is allowed to actually look inside the thing then it's not longer equivalent to sleight-of-hand.