As you well know, attacking any technology that could be turned to "green" ends. What's with playing dumb after setting such an utterly ridiculous benchmark in an attempt to fool the kiddies? You should be utterly disgusted with your deception.
and have made no effort to back your position.
My "position" is that there is no situation where the entire USA needs to run off batteries for an entire day so pretending batteries are useless because they do not fit that benchmark is deceptive behavior. I'm no fan of batteries, they are a very lossy way to do things, but this political shit where you artificially set something up to fail is utter slime.
What has not been logged that should have been logged?
Something in a log about specific services stopping and starting would have been nice but it wasn't happening on those occasions - stuff not implemented yet it appeared.
Why?
Because a new project implementing the features of another that it aspires to replace is normally the done thing.
As for put up or shut up - don't take it from a biased person like me just look up the bug reports.
Strawmanning? That's not my intention All that line above is about is asking for a specific example of something that makes you like it as much as you do. What is a specific situation where it is an advantage to let systemd handle resource control instead of some other way?
My point was that at the time, some people did consider plastic bags more environmentally friendly
Really? Did you meet one of those people? I certainly never did. Also what is being argued here is not "some people" but a major motivation, which really makes zero sense IMHO. It smacks of pure revisionism and trying to blame the "other" for the very thing that the "other" warned people about, an oft used and somewhat pathetic trick used by political animals used to attempt to discredit a group they do not like. There's no point trying to take a calming middle view against such tricks - halfway to bullshit is still harmful.
how people would have known that plastic bags would be a trash nightmare
Plastic bottles already were a trash nightmare so it was kind of obvious. I spent days in the 1980s cleaning stuff off beaches.
systemd is resource control, which it does a hell of a lot better than any of the alternatives
I am not aware of an advantage there. In what way? It's not a challenge I just want to see what is so good that it's got you are advocating it so strongly.
Personally I've had some very bad experiences with people setting up machines that wouldn't boot and services that wouldn't run but as far as the logs indicated they were (so it's not just me to blame in a kneejerk reaction here). We keep on telling people that linux is reliable and having to go in an fix things that won't even start up is not a good look, I haven't seen so many problems like that since before 2000. Having to tell someone "unplug the mouse and plug it in after you see the login screen and it won't hang forever" sounds really unprofessional, so that machine was rolled back to an earlier OS.
Indeed, and keep that system discovered over a century ago in mind when science deniers keep on telling you that climate science is "new". However, the reef is in shallow water and blocks a lot of water flow so local air temperature drives the local water temperature more than currents, so other stuff matters more.
it is far superior to what was before otherwise it wouldn't have been adopted
You should be old enough to know about office politics. Office politics at RedHat is how this happened and not the superiority of the solution to the "problem" that all the init software was not under the control of a single person.
So you concede that your example is utterly ridiculous? Then stop fucking using it to pretend that something is useless unless it meets that unrealistic benchmark or you will be taken to task for the doubt you are spreading by cranky old bastards like me. If you can't push an agenda without deception then perhaps you should only push it on political sites where that sort of underhanded shit is expected.
Thank you. I don't actually agree that systemd actually improves on many of those points (and some of it is just bald opinion that I disagree with), a lot of it is really just a description of init systems in general, but it's good to get something other than insults and cheerleading.
Here's a few parts (but I could pick on a dozen):
The command-line interface is probably the best existing for service management
Considering how incredibly verbose the commands are - sorry - nothing close.
Systemd is introspectable and easy to debug:
Is that a joke or is it an aim for the future, because it's like a black box to work around now. Sure there are commands for that sort of thing but they don't seem to actually report anything when you need it.
After it became clear that rivers didn’t turn into blood,
Who wrote this incredibly unprofessional shit?
Come on kids - read it - and if you actually know something about the topic compare what is written with what you have observed instead of just blind cheering or ridiculous fanboy insults.
CentOS did the Systemd transition badly
Indeed, and RHEL before them. I have not had so many linux boxes hang and not tell me why since before 2000.
Usually something is expected to be superior in some way to the thing that replaces it when the cost of keeping the old thing is negligible. I'm just somewhat pissed off that it's been rushed out unfinished and we have to put up with beta software due to Lennart's ego. However it appears that for some reason expressing such an opinion is forbidden - why? What's with the mindless fanboy shit? What's wrong with you today?
Now that's very funny. Read what you've written yourself there and take your own advice! You are echoing empty hype and refusing to accept even the mildest criticism of the object of the hype.
I don't hate the idea, just the implementation leaves a bit to be desired and fucking stupid ideas growing out of an urge for total linux domination (like killing all of a users background processes) keep on cropping up due to inexperience in the project and an unwillingness to take advice. There are still a lot of servers around the world stuck on RHEL6 and CentOS6 - the slow software vendor that is messing me about is not alone. People are having trouble with the change, you may dismiss them as idiots but there are aspects of this project that are causing real problems.
Something about actually being able to monitor the status of processes rather than blindly firing off one and never knowing if it continues to run
Isn't that the job of nagios or similar and not an init system?
Also, many of the problems I have personally had with systemd are about exactly what you say it should be doing - trying to find out why something is not running and the logs not telling me if it's running or not. That justification seems a little odd to me until more improvements have been made and it's better than what came before it for that feature. Are you just repeating something you read somewhere?
instead of making things up... rather than rely on ignorant crap from trolls
I've got it on a few desktop systems, test machines and my home PC. I've seen it hang when it shouldn't (one USB mouse stopped it dead half way every time - so much for parallel init) and had all kinds of trouble trying to work out what is wrong on others due to the very poor logging behavior (which may get fixed some time, but not yet). I've been though plenty of documentation, bug reports and Lennart's smug blog about linux domination. So I've got some reason to write what I've written even though you want to call me a liar after I've written something as mild as the post above. What's with the thin skinned fanboys?
Been there, done that - even better read Lennart's blog. He doesn't care if he breaks stuff in server space and RedHat are not reining him in as much as they should.
There's a reason why systemd is being widely adopted by core projects, and it hasn't got shit to do with Redhat or Poettering
You failed to tell us that reason. IMHO it's fine for desktops where fuckups only result in one person being unable to work but it's still very problematic for servers. I've still go a pile of stuff on CentOS6 because some commercial software vendors haven't figured out how to get their stuff to work reliably with Poettering's stuff.
Perhaps - but why put the thing on servers where hot plugging is not an issue but a beta init system managed by a guy that throws bug reports back in people's faces is? Like PulseAudio and NetworkManager there's places where it makes sense and others where it should just be torn out.
Slashdot Mirror
Since this is the final stage instead of the entire term it's possible that step has been passed. If not it's another of many problems to be solved.
As you well know, attacking any technology that could be turned to "green" ends. What's with playing dumb after setting such an utterly ridiculous benchmark in an attempt to fool the kiddies? You should be utterly disgusted with your deception.
My "position" is that there is no situation where the entire USA needs to run off batteries for an entire day so pretending batteries are useless because they do not fit that benchmark is deceptive behavior. I'm no fan of batteries, they are a very lossy way to do things, but this political shit where you artificially set something up to fail is utter slime.
Do you need more time or do you have nothing but aggression, bluff, bluster and an incredibly thin skin?
Something in a log about specific services stopping and starting would have been nice but it wasn't happening on those occasions - stuff not implemented yet it appeared.
Because a new project implementing the features of another that it aspires to replace is normally the done thing.
As for put up or shut up - don't take it from a biased person like me just look up the bug reports.
Strawmanning? That's not my intention
All that line above is about is asking for a specific example of something that makes you like it as much as you do. What is a specific situation where it is an advantage to let systemd handle resource control instead of some other way?
Ah yes. Blame the user despite missing features. Just like Lennart.
Really? Did you meet one of those people? I certainly never did.
Also what is being argued here is not "some people" but a major motivation, which really makes zero sense IMHO. It smacks of pure revisionism and trying to blame the "other" for the very thing that the "other" warned people about, an oft used and somewhat pathetic trick used by political animals used to attempt to discredit a group they do not like. There's no point trying to take a calming middle view against such tricks - halfway to bullshit is still harmful.
Plastic bottles already were a trash nightmare so it was kind of obvious. I spent days in the 1980s cleaning stuff off beaches.
I am not aware of an advantage there. In what way? It's not a challenge I just want to see what is so good that it's got you are advocating it so strongly.
Personally I've had some very bad experiences with people setting up machines that wouldn't boot and services that wouldn't run but as far as the logs indicated they were (so it's not just me to blame in a kneejerk reaction here). We keep on telling people that linux is reliable and having to go in an fix things that won't even start up is not a good look, I haven't seen so many problems like that since before 2000. Having to tell someone "unplug the mouse and plug it in after you see the login screen and it won't hang forever" sounds really unprofessional, so that machine was rolled back to an earlier OS.
Indeed, and keep that system discovered over a century ago in mind when science deniers keep on telling you that climate science is "new".
However, the reef is in shallow water and blocks a lot of water flow so local air temperature drives the local water temperature more than currents, so other stuff matters more.
It's still very patchy in what it logs and that makes solving problems related to services much harder on CentOS7 than on CentOS6.
Hype about hotplugging. It's done whether systemd is there or not. It's just the latest thing for the octopus to get it's tentacles into.
You should be old enough to know about office politics. Office politics at RedHat is how this happened and not the superiority of the solution to the "problem" that all the init software was not under the control of a single person.
So you concede that your example is utterly ridiculous?
Then stop fucking using it to pretend that something is useless unless it meets that unrealistic benchmark or you will be taken to task for the doubt you are spreading by cranky old bastards like me.
If you can't push an agenda without deception then perhaps you should only push it on political sites where that sort of underhanded shit is expected.
I don't actually agree that systemd actually improves on many of those points (and some of it is just bald opinion that I disagree with), a lot of it is really just a description of init systems in general, but it's good to get something other than insults and cheerleading.
Here's a few parts (but I could pick on a dozen):
Considering how incredibly verbose the commands are - sorry - nothing close.
Is that a joke or is it an aim for the future, because it's like a black box to work around now. Sure there are commands for that sort of thing but they don't seem to actually report anything when you need it.
Who wrote this incredibly unprofessional shit?
Come on kids - read it - and if you actually know something about the topic compare what is written with what you have observed instead of just blind cheering or ridiculous fanboy insults.
Indeed, and RHEL before them. I have not had so many linux boxes hang and not tell me why since before 2000.
With the greatest possible respect it's not systemd that make it possible.
Do you think it couldn't be done before systemd?
Usually something is expected to be superior in some way to the thing that replaces it when the cost of keeping the old thing is negligible.
I'm just somewhat pissed off that it's been rushed out unfinished and we have to put up with beta software due to Lennart's ego. However it appears that for some reason expressing such an opinion is forbidden - why? What's with the mindless fanboy shit? What's wrong with you today?
Now that's very funny. Read what you've written yourself there and take your own advice! You are echoing empty hype and refusing to accept even the mildest criticism of the object of the hype.
I don't hate the idea, just the implementation leaves a bit to be desired and fucking stupid ideas growing out of an urge for total linux domination (like killing all of a users background processes) keep on cropping up due to inexperience in the project and an unwillingness to take advice.
There are still a lot of servers around the world stuck on RHEL6 and CentOS6 - the slow software vendor that is messing me about is not alone. People are having trouble with the change, you may dismiss them as idiots but there are aspects of this project that are causing real problems.
What's with the stupidly childish insults? Do you really want me to think your opinion is utterly worthless?
Isn't that the job of nagios or similar and not an init system?
Also, many of the problems I have personally had with systemd are about exactly what you say it should be doing - trying to find out why something is not running and the logs not telling me if it's running or not. That justification seems a little odd to me until more improvements have been made and it's better than what came before it for that feature. Are you just repeating something you read somewhere?
I've got it on a few desktop systems, test machines and my home PC. I've seen it hang when it shouldn't (one USB mouse stopped it dead half way every time - so much for parallel init) and had all kinds of trouble trying to work out what is wrong on others due to the very poor logging behavior (which may get fixed some time, but not yet). I've been though plenty of documentation, bug reports and Lennart's smug blog about linux domination.
So I've got some reason to write what I've written even though you want to call me a liar after I've written something as mild as the post above. What's with the thin skinned fanboys?
Been there, done that - even better read Lennart's blog.
He doesn't care if he breaks stuff in server space and RedHat are not reining him in as much as they should.
Tell me then - when is there ever going to be a time when the entire USA needs to run off batteries?
Did I call you an idiot? Underhanded and maybe I should call you amoral, but idiot, no.
You failed to tell us that reason.
IMHO it's fine for desktops where fuckups only result in one person being unable to work but it's still very problematic for servers. I've still go a pile of stuff on CentOS6 because some commercial software vendors haven't figured out how to get their stuff to work reliably with Poettering's stuff.
Perhaps - but why put the thing on servers where hot plugging is not an issue but a beta init system managed by a guy that throws bug reports back in people's faces is?
Like PulseAudio and NetworkManager there's places where it makes sense and others where it should just be torn out.