Ah, now I understand. So you turn up a year or so in advance, spend most of the time "getting changed", "powedering your nose", etc., do the race, then leave.
It all makes so much more sense now! Sorry, I was under the mistaken impression this drag-racing malarkey had something to do with cars! Where could I have got such an absurd idea?:)
I understand what you're saying. In fact I agree with it entirely. The point is not that they're children* but that they have been harmed. That is the crime under discussion. I have no doubt that a child who - for the sake of argument - does not fully understand what has been done to them will be considerably more scarred than a mature adult in the same situation. But this is not because they are a child. Being young does not make you unique or special**.
Thank you for being the only person intelligent enough to respond to my post rather than ignore my points and misquote me. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time arguing with people who agree with me than anyone else here;)
* As someone has already pointed out somewhere else, why is someone that is a day away from being an adult different from that same person a day later? They aren't; but the law states that they are.
** Again, see my comments elsewhere about mental age.
Take a low-quality pint glass like you would find in any pub, smash the rim off the bartop and proceed to ram the jagged edge so revealed full force into someone's face. It will result in you being *covered* in blood and them spending a lot of time in A&E being stitched up. And is extremely horrific. See the film Trainspotting as mentioned in my previous post for some textbook examples of the Edinburgh ned.
It isn't just christians that are against child porn.
I think this just kind of sums up your post overall, doesn't it? You felt the urge to reply but you couldn't be bothered replying to anything I'd written; so you thought you'd make up some statements you'd have liked me to say, and reply to them instead.
I didn't make any reference to Christians being the only people against child porn, something you would have found out if you'd been bothered to read my post. What I did say was that the ingrained Christian belief in an innate "innocence" of children stops all rational discussion on the matter. (We are talking about the UK here, not India. There is an underlying Christian spiritualism to the populous.)
Kids are no more or less innocent of anything than the rest of us. More ignorant maybe, less experienced maybe, less able to understand what goes on around them. This does not constitute innocence. All these things mean lack of knowledge, which comes with time. Original sin was the best thing that never happened to mankind...
There are no reasons why child porn should be treated any more harshly than other forms of sexual abuse. (If you believe it should then try arguing your case to a woman who's just been raped. Maybe tell her if she'd been a few years younger the law would be more likely to help?) There are laws against assault, laws against rape and that should suffice. Or maybe thieving off kiddies is the next great taboo for which we can get extra law or two for...
There are too many attempts in this country to create specific laws where general ones are just as useful, if not more so. If something is illegal then it should be discussed in those terms alone, not terms of subjectivity ("innocence", etc.) which only serve to muddy the argument.
When the jews, muslims and christans have the same belief, that should tell you somthing.
(sic)
Oh, thanks for that. I had been unsure on the subject of the existence of God until now, but you've helped to put my mind at rest. If they all believe it, how can it possibly not be true?
But how is this different for kids? Rape and assault laws apply equally to adults as kids. There should be no difference in how someone is treated because of an ingrained Christian-doctrine idea of "innocence". We are all human beings.
For example, if you feel that the uniqueness of the child's situation is down to them not understanding their predicament, do you extend that to rape/assault of mentally retarded people? If someone with a mental age of 7 but a physical age of 42 was raped - what happens in your worldview? Is this the KP side of the fence, or the plain common-or-garden adult assault?
That, for the uninitiated, was an attempt at humour. I was taking the piss. The guy had spelt 'versus' wrong.
I live in Scotland, a part of the UK. I fully realise that the Metropolitan Police can carry guns.
America is significantly more religious than the UK, which is partly the point I was trying to make. GWB's Good vs Evil tirades would probably be laughed out of office here (I hope).
Whilst it probably would have been funnier if I'd chosen a town in Bible-belt America it would have required more research on my part. I didn't feel a +1 Funny attempt on Slashdot at 2am merited the research required.
Feel free to rewrite the abobve sketch if you like. I just found it funny, that's all.
What you are saying is that you care not for these trappings of the modern world, this road network, electricity and telephonic communications, (the viniculture, the aquaducts,) farmed food and a legal system to protect you.
Because "fuck civilization" man, I want to live in the stone age! I want to worry my whole life about defending myself from attackers, finding enough firewood and a dry cave without any bears in it, and hunting all my food. But hey, at least I won't have to pay all those damn commie taxes!
The rest of the world can enjoy fine wines, home entertainment systems and silk sheets on the bed, but damn you all I DON'T LIKE CIVILISATION! I'm a real man and I can rip your throat out.
But then again, in a world without civilised society I wouldn't get any dried frog pills...
"be prepared for anything at any time from anybody, don't take no shit, always stand your ground. people wanna come up to me and run their mouth - guess what? i'll throw them through the fucking window... i won't think a thing of it." -- BBF3, Godspeed You Black Emperor!
I had the distinct displeasure of witnessing a "glassing" in Edinburgh. I've never seen anything like that in the US and I've been in a few tough spots.
Really? I'm very surprised that kind of thing doesn't go on in ghettoised inner-city-slum America. Are you sure?
I live in Edinburgh, and a lovely city it is too; but if anyone doesn't believe Begbie is a real person they're gonna get a shock. Once the people roll out of the nightclubs at three in the morning things can get pretty hairy. (Actual quote from outside Revolution: "Kick him again, he's still got some teeth!")
Life's a hell of a lot less precious and more special than some people here realise I think. Claims by libertarians that they'd happily blow someone away for wanting to steal an iPod are just ridiculous, and show more than just a little detachment from the real world.
Liberty? Oh man you lot really have been on the baaad crack today, haven't you?
Where, exactly, does the Patriot Act come into this great American dream of liberty? Your inability to get on with other human beings of a different skin colour, article two of the human rights our US compadres so love to bring into any and all arguments. Guantanamo Bay, and article six? The seeming universal hatred of trades unions, and article 23?
Am I beginning to make myself clear? There's no such thing as a perfect state, but the good ol' USA isn't even in the running.
Nice one (I have mod points but I have far too much to say elsewhere in this conversation to use them).
But thank you for that anyway. Unfortunately it's 15 where I live, not 12, but the sentiment is the same. (The idea is that there's always going to be a majority with an odd number...)
I would like to know how you "feel" about law enforcment carrying verses...
Oh boy, I can see it now, BBC News...
"And finally, in an effort to curb crime using non-violent means, Metropolitan police officers will be carrying Bibles instead of firearms when dealing with armed offenders. John Brydon has more..."
(Flick to reporter standing in rain.)
"Thank you Jill. I'm standing here at Metropolitan Headquarters where earler this afternoon Chief Superintendant Ian Edwards unveiled new plans for a more spiritual approach to crime fighting when dealing with firearms.
"A small squad of highly trained officers have been drilled by the finest fire-and-brimstone preachers from across the world in an effort to use the power of the Lord against the infidels."
(Cut to Press Conference. Caption: Chief Superintendant Ian Edwards.)
"...during the course of, uh, a volatile hostage situation key passages from the Good Lord's Book will be communicated to the, uh, offenders. The officers have been specially chosen and highly trained to choose the correct chapter and verse for each situation and to suit the psychological profile of the criminals."
(Cut back to studio.)
"A spokesman from the Church of England said earlier today that this is an encouraging sign of the Lord's power playing a helping hand in the lives of the most needy."
What's true? That humanity has an immature fascination with killing people? Yes, I know that, it was my point - remember?
My fiancee would have been raped [...] That gun saved her life, without it who knows what would have happened.
Hold on, you just said she would have been raped! Make up your mind, do we know or not?
Self defense is a basic human right,
No, self-defence is not a basic human right. There are thirty articles in the universal declaration of human rights and none of them state that everyone is entitled to defend themselves from attack. See UDHR.
ever wait on the police when their truly needed? What if your a minority? Good luck with that.
Oh, I see... so where you come from minorities are institutionally prejudiced against are they? I can tell you that fair treatment is a human right. Maybe you should be doing something about unfair treatment of whole swathes of the population rather than waiting to blow holes in members of the public.
The mugger has no such reservations against using deadly weapons against you.
Ahahaha, oh yeah, that's a good one. (wipes away tears)
Muggers using 'deadly weapons' you say. Would that be a purpose-built chib or the time-honoured bottle o' Bucky? I don't think you have the first clue what goes on in the rest of the world, do you?
You do realise that assault with a deadly weapon is frowned upon in civilised society, don't you?
Well that's ok then, because I don't think I'll ever find myself in late 19th century America riding a stagecoach across country.
Seriously though, what is the deal with all you pro-gun freaks? Just as soon humanity gets over its immature fascination with killing people we'll all be a whole lot better off.
I'll think you'll find that is complete bollocks, for want of a more eloquent way of putting it. Glasgow, for example, has the highest actual murder rate and highest rate per person out of the whole country.
My (west coast) flatmate is quite proud of the fact.:)
Excellent points, but to further what you said about trustworthiness... When they have been under suspicion (Andrew Gilligan, "sexed up" dossiers, etc.) they were remarkably objective about their own (mis)deeds. I think any other organisation would have a) attempted to ignore their own part in the proceedings, or b) editorialised when they should have just been reporting.
I just did what you suggested and (using Firefox 0.8) my update_notifications.provider.0.datasource is empty [default]. Does this prevent Firefox checking for updates? Certainly it never told about the upgrade from 0.7 to 0.8.
don't ask me why they didn't use the more obvious (and more common) UK, but they chose to use GB instead, and i try to use the proper codes when i can.
Not to mention why they choose to omit Northern Ireland... (as in, the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", so UK != GB).
Thanks for the info on GPL. Why is there never a lawyer around when you need one?:)
Sorry, do you mean Great Britain by GB? If yes, what are the issues involved with the GPL and UK law? I've never heard anyone mention this before.
(I'm pondering releasing one of my programs under GPL and - as I'm a UK resident - would like to know if it may be less effective under local law than in the US.)
Surely that's only the case if being covered by software patents... which I think the general consensus in the Linux devlopment world is that's a Bad Thing(tm). Whether they will apply in Europe is still being discussed.
Copyright-protected code is obviously not allowed, but as long as there's a way of implementing the same thing in a different manner (always assuming that European s/w patents don't get ratified) I fail to see any issue in understanding how some other piece of software works.
The whole SCO debacle has done more than just piss everyone off, there's been a remarkable amount of reticence to learn from code that isn't Free. By that very logic authors shouldn't be allowed to read books and composers should be banned from listening to music.
-- This has been a scatterbrained post on behalf of the Poorly Thougt-out Argument Party
Ah but you notice how it almost worked. If that little disclaimer hadn't been there the FP would have said "another editor not paying attention..." etc.
And for some reason, it seems to give slashdot users carte blanche to discuss everything - almost to the word - that they discussed last time.
Hmm, what did I say in my comment to the previous post, and will it gain me more karma if I post again?:)
Slashdot Mirror
It all makes so much more sense now! Sorry, I was under the mistaken impression this drag-racing malarkey had something to do with cars! Where could I have got such an absurd idea? :)
At least there's somewhere in the country where people have rights thten, eh? :)
Well, my understanding of a drag race is that you only actually turn up at the strip on the morning of the race ;)
Thank you for being the only person intelligent enough to respond to my post rather than ignore my points and misquote me. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time arguing with people who agree with me than anyone else here ;)
* As someone has already pointed out somewhere else, why is someone that is a day away from being an adult different from that same person a day later? They aren't; but the law states that they are.
** Again, see my comments elsewhere about mental age.
Take a low-quality pint glass like you would find in any pub, smash the rim off the bartop and proceed to ram the jagged edge so revealed full force into someone's face. It will result in you being *covered* in blood and them spending a lot of time in A&E being stitched up. And is extremely horrific. See the film Trainspotting as mentioned in my previous post for some textbook examples of the Edinburgh ned.
Still, at least I can spell, eh?
It isn't just christians that are against child porn.
I think this just kind of sums up your post overall, doesn't it? You felt the urge to reply but you couldn't be bothered replying to anything I'd written; so you thought you'd make up some statements you'd have liked me to say, and reply to them instead.
I didn't make any reference to Christians being the only people against child porn, something you would have found out if you'd been bothered to read my post. What I did say was that the ingrained Christian belief in an innate "innocence" of children stops all rational discussion on the matter. (We are talking about the UK here, not India. There is an underlying Christian spiritualism to the populous.)
Kids are no more or less innocent of anything than the rest of us. More ignorant maybe, less experienced maybe, less able to understand what goes on around them. This does not constitute innocence. All these things mean lack of knowledge, which comes with time. Original sin was the best thing that never happened to mankind...
There are no reasons why child porn should be treated any more harshly than other forms of sexual abuse. (If you believe it should then try arguing your case to a woman who's just been raped. Maybe tell her if she'd been a few years younger the law would be more likely to help?) There are laws against assault, laws against rape and that should suffice. Or maybe thieving off kiddies is the next great taboo for which we can get extra law or two for...
There are too many attempts in this country to create specific laws where general ones are just as useful, if not more so. If something is illegal then it should be discussed in those terms alone, not terms of subjectivity ("innocence", etc.) which only serve to muddy the argument.
When the jews, muslims and christans have the same belief, that should tell you somthing. (sic)
Oh, thanks for that. I had been unsure on the subject of the existence of God until now, but you've helped to put my mind at rest. If they all believe it, how can it possibly not be true?
For example, if you feel that the uniqueness of the child's situation is down to them not understanding their predicament, do you extend that to rape/assault of mentally retarded people? If someone with a mental age of 7 but a physical age of 42 was raped - what happens in your worldview? Is this the KP side of the fence, or the plain common-or-garden adult assault?
I live in Scotland, a part of the UK. I fully realise that the Metropolitan Police can carry guns.
America is significantly more religious than the UK, which is partly the point I was trying to make. GWB's Good vs Evil tirades would probably be laughed out of office here (I hope).
Whilst it probably would have been funnier if I'd chosen a town in Bible-belt America it would have required more research on my part. I didn't feel a +1 Funny attempt on Slashdot at 2am merited the research required.
Feel free to rewrite the abobve sketch if you like. I just found it funny, that's all.
Ithika.
What you are saying is that you care not for these trappings of the modern world, this road network, electricity and telephonic communications, (the viniculture, the aquaducts,) farmed food and a legal system to protect you.
Because "fuck civilization" man, I want to live in the stone age! I want to worry my whole life about defending myself from attackers, finding enough firewood and a dry cave without any bears in it, and hunting all my food. But hey, at least I won't have to pay all those damn commie taxes!
The rest of the world can enjoy fine wines, home entertainment systems and silk sheets on the bed, but damn you all I DON'T LIKE CIVILISATION! I'm a real man and I can rip your throat out.
But then again, in a world without civilised society I wouldn't get any dried frog pills...
"be prepared for anything at any time from anybody, don't take no shit, always stand your ground. people wanna come up to me and run their mouth - guess what? i'll throw them through the fucking window... i won't think a thing of it."
-- BBF3, Godspeed You Black Emperor!
Guy on /. - my law lecturer /.
My law lecturer - guy on
Oh I give up, who do I believe?
Really? I'm very surprised that kind of thing doesn't go on in ghettoised inner-city-slum America. Are you sure?
I live in Edinburgh, and a lovely city it is too; but if anyone doesn't believe Begbie is a real person they're gonna get a shock. Once the people roll out of the nightclubs at three in the morning things can get pretty hairy. (Actual quote from outside Revolution: "Kick him again, he's still got some teeth!")
Life's a hell of a lot less precious and more special than some people here realise I think. Claims by libertarians that they'd happily blow someone away for wanting to steal an iPod are just ridiculous, and show more than just a little detachment from the real world.
Oh yeah, and redheads are better :P
Where, exactly, does the Patriot Act come into this great American dream of liberty? Your inability to get on with other human beings of a different skin colour, article two of the human rights our US compadres so love to bring into any and all arguments. Guantanamo Bay, and article six? The seeming universal hatred of trades unions, and article 23?
Am I beginning to make myself clear? There's no such thing as a perfect state, but the good ol' USA isn't even in the running.
But thank you for that anyway. Unfortunately it's 15 where I live, not 12, but the sentiment is the same. (The idea is that there's always going to be a majority with an odd number...)
Oh boy, I can see it now, BBC News...
(Flick to reporter standing in rain.) (Cut to Press Conference. Caption: Chief Superintendant Ian Edwards.) (Cut back to studio.)Maybe because its true?
What's true? That humanity has an immature fascination with killing people? Yes, I know that, it was my point - remember?
My fiancee would have been raped [...] That gun saved her life, without it who knows what would have happened.
Hold on, you just said she would have been raped! Make up your mind, do we know or not?
Self defense is a basic human right,
No, self-defence is not a basic human right. There are thirty articles in the universal declaration of human rights and none of them state that everyone is entitled to defend themselves from attack. See UDHR.
ever wait on the police when their truly needed? What if your a minority? Good luck with that.
Oh, I see... so where you come from minorities are institutionally prejudiced against are they? I can tell you that fair treatment is a human right. Maybe you should be doing something about unfair treatment of whole swathes of the population rather than waiting to blow holes in members of the public.
Ahahaha, oh yeah, that's a good one. (wipes away tears)
Muggers using 'deadly weapons' you say. Would that be a purpose-built chib or the time-honoured bottle o' Bucky? I don't think you have the first clue what goes on in the rest of the world, do you?
You do realise that assault with a deadly weapon is frowned upon in civilised society, don't you?
Well that's ok then, because I don't think I'll ever find myself in late 19th century America riding a stagecoach across country.
Seriously though, what is the deal with all you pro-gun freaks? Just as soon humanity gets over its immature fascination with killing people we'll all be a whole lot better off.
My (west coast) flatmate is quite proud of the fact. :)
Excellent points, but to further what you said about trustworthiness... When they have been under suspicion (Andrew Gilligan, "sexed up" dossiers, etc.) they were remarkably objective about their own (mis)deeds. I think any other organisation would have a) attempted to ignore their own part in the proceedings, or b) editorialised when they should have just been reporting.
I just did what you suggested and (using Firefox 0.8) my update_notifications.provider.0.datasource is empty [default]. Does this prevent Firefox checking for updates? Certainly it never told about the upgrade from 0.7 to 0.8.
Not to mention why they choose to omit Northern Ireland... (as in, the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", so UK != GB).
Thanks for the info on GPL. Why is there never a lawyer around when you need one? :)
(I'm pondering releasing one of my programs under GPL and - as I'm a UK resident - would like to know if it may be less effective under local law than in the US.)
Surely that's only the case if being covered by software patents... which I think the general consensus in the Linux devlopment world is that's a Bad Thing(tm). Whether they will apply in Europe is still being discussed.
Copyright-protected code is obviously not allowed, but as long as there's a way of implementing the same thing in a different manner (always assuming that European s/w patents don't get ratified) I fail to see any issue in understanding how some other piece of software works.
The whole SCO debacle has done more than just piss everyone off, there's been a remarkable amount of reticence to learn from code that isn't Free. By that very logic authors shouldn't be allowed to read books and composers should be banned from listening to music.
--
This has been a scatterbrained post on behalf of the Poorly Thougt-out Argument Party
Ah but you notice how it almost worked. If that little disclaimer hadn't been there the FP would have said "another editor not paying attention..." etc. And for some reason, it seems to give slashdot users carte blanche to discuss everything - almost to the word - that they discussed last time. Hmm, what did I say in my comment to the previous post, and will it gain me more karma if I post again? :)
Oh for god's sake, the word is *have*.