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The Urban Geek As A Mugger Magnet?
CGP314 writes "I live in London and whenever I travel around, I feel like a huge target for muggers. Usually I take my laptop, iPod, cell phone and occasionally a PDA around with me. As with many geeks, these items hold within them far more value to me than anything I leave behind in my apartment. So I would like to know what my fellow urban geeks do to try and keep their valuables safe while traveling with them. I've switched my iPod headphones from the distinctive white to a boring black as a means of camouflage; are there any other suggestions?"
I've felt this way many-a-time during middle and high school. I used to have locks on EVERYthing to prevent my stuff from being stolen.
Your ad here.
>"are there any other suggestions?"
Martial arts
btw; First post
Im not kidding get a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit.
DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?
Never argue with an idiot, he'll just lower you to his level and beat you with experience.
Make backups and look menacing.
Oh yeah. And leave London.
Even living in NYC for years I never worried about this sort of stuff...
you go outside?
Ditching the white earphones was a good first step - I would also suggest not using a fancy case to carry around your laptop - those leather targus bags just scream "look at me! expensive stuff here!"
It's not what you have, it's whether you look like an easy target or not. Look around as you walk, be alert, notice people and make sure they know you notice them, but don't stare. Don't slouch and stare at the ground.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Making it appear that you have a girlfriend always seems to throw off people looking for geeks to mug.
May not be a very obvious defense, but it's effective.
... that's easy, add a gun to what you carry. If you're in America it's the 2nd amendment and your right... er... only your right if your're 18 and usually only if you're 21 ... and only if you pass a check, and only if you buy a certian type of gun and only with a permit... so, um carry a bat ??
- Don't be (or look like) an utter wimp.
- Put your valuable stuff in a bag, rather than waving your PDA, iPod, and other geek crap around in an effort to make yourself look l33t.
- Carry a gun, and if someone tries to rob you, blow his head clean off.
Like I said, impossible for you, but perhaps of use to readers in the rest of the world.Tap in to the matrix and suddenly "I know Kung-Fu
Yeah, that would be nice.
Do you think THIS is one of the reasons people have been interested in wearable computer devices? So they are less of a burden to carry around with you? Hrmmm...
Now to clarify the question, is this guy a huge target because he carries too much crap or because he's huge?
Or at least a self-defense course.
People all over the world should be given the right, nay, the duty to defend themselves with lethal force from the worthless scum of the world.
I've been mugged several times myself, so please excuse my bitterness.
Instead of prevention, why not just carry something to defend yourself with? Pepper spray, pocket knife, or a kubaton.
# root is the greed of all evil #
I travel with everything I own in a crummy-looking backpack. Walking around with a distinctive black laptop bag is asking for trouble. Just make yourself look like the least likely candidate to be carrying lots of technology.
Is it more important to you to have these items on you while you're out, or is it more important to you that they be safe?
If the answer is that you must have them on you, then try to avoid "bad parts" of town and accept the fact that you're putting yourself in a dangerous position. Pray to your deity. Consider carrying a tazer.
If the answer is that you'd rather hang on to them for the long run, leave the damn things at home.
You'll have to check the laws in your area, but at the very least, the list is missing a knife, pepper spray, brass knuckles, and a packet of instant foam... Bite into it, then the attacker, and do your best to fake rabies. :)
Look like you know exactly what you're doing, and that you belong exactly where you are. Don't show fear. Don't run past the sketchy neighboroughs. Don't glance around. Strut. Don't look at maps. Don't stare at people, but return their look if given one.
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
Nobody will steal them if they don't know you have them. Switching the headphones on the iPod was a good idea. Are you even a geek if you own an the overpriced, low battery, low sound quality item that is the iPod. Real geeks use Zen Xtra, Karma, or iRiver iHP-1x0.
Don't buy a fancy bag that obviously has a laptop in it, just get some generic (or even better, old and slightly beaten up) bag and put your laptop in there, with a padded cover so it stays protected.
I often take a LAW with me.
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
This is London!
They have a communist mayor for crying out loud!
It's a classic example of, when guns are outlawed...
Just ask Julia Roberts, Madonna, and every other celeb in London who's been (sometimes violently) mugged.
Here in Virginia, the concealed carry permit allows one to do an imitation of Dirty Harry.
A lead induced lobotomy cures most criminal impulses.
In London,and those parts of the U.S. where the rights of criminals are paramount, you should at least show the thief how to operate the equipment and then thank him for helping making your trip lighter and easier.
doesn't go out. Therefore, I don't really see a problem here.
I also reply below your current threshold.
Living in cities with anything like a decent crime rate, I view mugging and / or damage to equipment that I carry regularly as inevitible, and plan accordingly. The data that my equipment carries far exceeds the cost of the equipment itself, so I try to keep backups of data on another machine at my house or in another location entirely.
I will say though, I was working at a convenience store a few years ago, and got held up at gun point while developing on my powerbook. All I could think about while handing them the money from the register was to position myself in exactly the right place so that the gunman couldn't see my laptop directly behind me. Ever since that close call, I've stuck to my "guns" when it comes to regular backups.
I totally agree, right now hoping to get a Glock 26 for CC. However, he lives in London. The UK has enacted a total gun ban, and consequently, violent crime rates have gone up. Way up. London, along with Paris, are now the crime capitals of the Western world. As a previous poster said, the best thing to do would be to leave London. I'd say not only leave London, but move to a region where self-defense isn't a crime.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Exercise your 2nd amendment rights and obtain a concealed carry permit. Oh, wait..
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist, having noted that most of the early posts went the same way. I enjoy having mine. It's not the posessions so much as your life - Remember, when seconds count, help is only minutes away.
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
1. Don't shower for weeks on end
2. Where cloths multiple times
3. Find the dirtiest, nastiest bag you can to put your stuff in
oh wait your a geek, you already do those three things.
A Fatal OE Exception has occurred, Sig will now reboot.
I use a nondescript backpack that looks more like it's for school (of course, I'm still of school age, which makes a difference), and I would suggest not walking up to people saying, "Man, I'm loaded with expensive electronics! I hope no one mugs me!"
1. I've lived in London for the last 18 years, since being 18 in fact, all over from Finsbury Park to Streatham, From Acton to Walthamstow, and even in South Kensington and Victoria, which covers a large area. I've never felt particularly at risk. Ever. Admittedly I'm a 6'2 male, and I walk around with confidence in my stride but I've been in far more dangerous places than London.
2. Are you seriously telling me that you carry around with you data that you can't recover ?? No-one expects you to pray to the backup gods religiously every morning before breakfast, but seriously it's not hard to keep things at least roughly synced with a more-permanent base. Use any PC, connect 'em up and hit go, grab a coffee and it's done.
I don't expect to get mugged, but there's always the chance I'll forget to pick up my bag, or drop the portable, or some idiot will spill his pint of beer over me, or (pick some random occurrence). BACK IT UP!
[aside: I *have* heard from Ipod owners (I'm not one such) that the white earphones are in fact the cause of several muggings, and they're crap quality anyway, so I can understand ditching them. That's about the only step I'd take though, and more for quality reasons than safety ones]
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
I know what you mean... What I do is carry myself like a thug, when I am not dressed up for work (GOD FORBID)... And when I run into the wrong type, I just let them know,w ith my eyes, my actions, my feelings, my soul, that I aint anybody they should be ***** with... It's an attitude I learned when I was homeless in the city with a $5,ooo dollar camera outfit in my backpack... And I once had a kid pull a gun out on me... You know what I did>? I looked him in the eye, gave him that (not attitude, but thought, sense, whatever)((quantumn> taht he should not touch me... and I walked right passed him. It's in the attitude. And if your still worried about your PB, well, get insurance...
This seems obvious, but I'll bite. How about instead of taking all that crap with you by default, you *only* bring what you'll absolutely need. If you have your laptop with you, for example, do you really need your iPod? Or a PDA? Practically everyone carries a cell phone around nowadays, so I unless you have a riced out one, I don't think the cell phone is as much of a problem as the other big ticket items.
If you must carry it all around, I suggest concealing it in a similar manner as you did with the iPod earphones. Be careful of where you flash your toys around. If, for example, you take your iPod to lunch with you, then when you get up to grab a handful of napkins, stick that sucker in your pocket, not in your bag. Be cautious, but not paranoid. And, it should go without saying, but if you're worried about muggers, don't walk around with headphones on.
Insure everything and backup regularly. Unless you are really lucky, you will get mugged at some point (or at least you have to assume so), and there is nothing you can do to prevent it completely (although not making yourself an obvious target may lessen the risk somewhat). It's best to make sure that when it happens, it is nothing more than a minor annoyance.
(Disclaimer - I have never been mugged, I'm merely paranoid)
Ok, for those of us who don't live in Yankee doodle land (US) and can't carry guns. I suggest doing weights and cardio, then taking self defense classes. Then when I stupid bloke tries to take your stuff give it to him and tell him to take a flying F*@#.
... you have no right to defend yourself against a mugger so get it insured and make lots of back ups ;)
(I am an American who has been living in Birmingham, UK for the past 2 years)
Just like you've done with the iPod headphones, ideally nobody should be able to tell you are carying a laptop, PDA, etc.
I carry my laptop, PDA and minidisk player (yes, it's not an iPod, but it's still worth quite a bit) wherever I go, but because I use a regular backpack to hold everything, I'm as safe as anyone else. I use a sleeve bag for the laptop, with hard padding all around. That way in my backpack, even when surrounded by books, binders and other things, my laptop can take a fair amount of pressure without any problems. I even rode my motorcycle and my bycicle, and nothing happened (no, I did not fall, but the bumps would have cracked a less protected laptop).
The absolute worse you can do is carry a leather Targus bag. It's as close to wearing a "Rob ME!" sticker on your back as possible.
You don't say whether the laptop et al is yours or company property... so I'm assuming the former. In which case I think you can get homeowner's (alt. renter's) insurance that will cover these items.
Then make sure you back them up periodically.
And if there's anything sensitive on them, make sure you encrpyt it.
That should cover all the exigencies.
This is definitely a case of plan to fail gracefully b/c once you get tagged, it's a little out of your control...
Most of the joy of gadgets is the researching, selecting, ordering, and receiving anyway ... After you get it, it's obsolete and you've already moved onto the next new thing. Think of muggers as helpers ... They clean out the old obsolete gadgets so you can research/select/order new expensive shiny gadgets.
Carrying a pocket knife around is a bad idea unless your Chuck Norris. Your best bet is concealing your stuff realy well. Maybe buy a cheap shoulder bag that looks like crap. Oh... and try wearing a gilly suit :p
Travel with a girl. They'll never identify you as a geek then!
...have the hardware surgically implanted.
Present-day muggers don't usually carry around X-Ray or MRI equipment, and usually don't have surgical instruments in their possession (except for organ muggers, but that's a different story).
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
Also I suggest renting a stack of Charles Bronson movies.
Yeah, learning to fight is probably the best thing to do. May I sincerely recommend Gracie Jiu Jitsu, it is an excellent style that can be used in many situations and will allow you too out manuever oponents who may be larger, stronger or faster than you, seriusly its about technique and "Gracie" is easy to learn and you can practice with your friends with out getting hurt.
Yay me! ^^
Life is too short to walk around worrying about muggers.
I think this has to be the worst ask slashdot yet.
(1)Insurance and (2)backup for when shit hits the fan. And if you don't want your data to end up in the wrong hands keep it (3)encrypted. (Password + maybe separate crypto key on a thumb drive.)
My sister recently got lifted for her video cam. It was between her feet but someone distracted her for a moment and it was gone. So to avoid getting mugged it may seem that (4)always holding on to your things may help. (E.g. when you sit down; keep your things between your legs and keep the handles in your hands or around your wrist.)
Look a monkey!
Stop talking in that damn nigger language.
I am pretty much as you - my PowerBook and other digital goodies always go with me and somehow I don't feel like a target. The other option is not to take a bath for a week before the trip or better yet, go to the gym for a week without taking a bath and the muggers will be afraid of you - trust me on this one.
Let me guess, it is not a problem there, because you shoot targets really well in the shooting range?
I guess it will be very entertaining when your weapon will be used against you the moment you get it out.
My (west coast) flatmate is quite proud of the fact. :)
the layman's guide to computer science
you know, i'd rather have my stuff stolen than live with shooting someone... even a crook.
Another idea is to put personal/private/important data on a laptop onto and only onto a USB pen drive hidden in tiny pocket where muggers won't find it, cos equipment can be insured/replaced but that data must only be in your hands.
And have a look here at 40 Reasons to Support Gun Control.
The chances are that you will not have the same experience with guns as the mugger anyways and prob. he will take your gadgets AND the gun.
Plus carring a gun is the best way of getting shot at.
I'd really like to help you out with this. Could we get together in person to discuss it? Please reply to this post with the time and place you want to meet, and when you come, make sure to bring all your expensive gear. I'd prefer a time late at night, and someplace out of the way and quiet. Maybe an alley?
Find free books.
Hey, great idea! Once you're in custody, in the back of a police car, after you've been arrested for carrying an offensive weapon your chances of being mugged drop dramatically!
Seriously, carrying a concealed weapon that could get you a criminal record and a nice custodial sentence of your own is not the way to avoid trouble.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
But come on .. what are the real statistics?
Got any evidence of these violent crime rates shooting way up in London? Or is this just another a case of 'proof by blatant assertion'? I call BS, crime rates in the UK have been going down across the board for years.
While you're digging out crime statistics, how about some US & UK gun related death figures? Particularly interesting are those ones about how much more likely you are to get shot if you own a gun for 'your protection'...
Renter/home owner/additional insurance for your devices. Then save early, save often on something you keep at home or another safe location.
If someone wants to take your stuff, they will. Even if you could carry a gun it'd probably just mean you'd get shot faster.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
One of the cardinal rules of sneaking around is to act like you own the place you're breaking in to. That way it's very unlikely people will question you. The same goes for traveling with expensive stuff-- don't be self-conscious about it, because it will show. The trained thief knows how to discern between the guy nonchalantly walking by (who likely has nothing of value) and the guy casting panicked stares around him (who, in all likelihood, is either loaded or stoned-- money either way).
A lot of people are advocating the carriage of weaponry, and I can't agree with that. Just act calm, like nothing on your person is worth being hassled over, and you'll be fine.
Incidentally, I used to traipse around downtown Erie back in my college days carrying a whole hell of a lot of heavy crap-- typically college books, cell phone, Game Boy, a PDA for a brief time, and other miscellaney. I quickly learned the value of a) miniaturizing and b) wearing clothes with lots of pockets. My favorite winter coat has 10 pockets, 4 of which are positively huge. When I had all my gear in it, including gloves and hat, it must have weighed at least six pounds; I remember it would always tip over whatever rack I hung it on. Something to think about, I guess.
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
dont forget to record your serial numbers and MAC addresses and all that stuff. Not getting it stolen is priority, but having a good record of what could be stolen, especially a wifi card with a mac address some wardriver might pick up. I would image there is some kinda database for stolen wifi cards, and I would assume most thieves dont know how to change a MAC address.
Error: Id10t detected
you could also move to Korea ! it's so safe here that you could pass out drunk in the street with your bag of electronics and the worst that would happen is some concerned passer-by might try to wake you up.
Yay me! ^^
Yes, because laws like that are what made the world such a wonderful place.
Sickens me so much that a slashot topic should be like this. I'm amazed we live in such a world. Having said that, I walk around London with my hands planted firmly in pockets and I hold onto my wallet for dear life. London isn't any worse than any other city though. The fact there's more people about makes it easier for pickpockets and muggers to do their work.
1. Don't listen to the people telling you to get a gun. They are clearly dumb anyway as they should have noticed you live in London and that would mean you would have to hook up with much badder people that street muggers to even get one. But mainly because the best thing to do if you get mugged is hand it over and get over it. A few bits of kit are not worth physical injury, or even worth the trouble of hurting someone else. If you can afford an ipod you can afford a decent insurance policy that would cover it, so just consider the cost of that as peace of mind.
2. Carry your kit in a crappy bag.
3. Walk around gesticulating wildly to the halucinations and shouting nonsense words.
4. Stay out of Hackney.
Build and carry one of these.
I was thinking of converting to paganism, but where the hell can you find sacrificial virgins these days?
This is an excellent site, lots of free material from an expert:
Tips on how to avoid being robbed
Sooooo... it was mid-1999 and I was starting on a contract with a new client in Philadelphia. They flew me in from Cleveland on Sunday night, and my hotel was right on the river. A quick check of public transit maps showed that I could catch the R1 line to Center City and then ride the Blue Line over to Second Street, with only a short walk to the river from there.
Yeah. Right. At eleven o'clock at night. Loaded down with a laptop and travel suitcase. Under bridges and stuff, down unlit streets, not sure exactly where I was going.
It wasn't the brightest thing I'd ever done, but I managed to get to the hotel unscathed, and it impressed the hell out of my colleagues. They knew not to mess with me. :-)
How about not using your Ipod when you're walking around? You have to be less aware of your surroundings if you're drowning out the city noise with music, and any experienced mugger is going to know it. Crank the music up and anyone can easily sneak up behind you.
The other obvious thing is to not be obvious. Don't wear your PDA and Ipod and cell phone where it's obvious you have them. Buy a non-descript bag and carry all your stuff in that. And be sure the bag is securely attached to your person. Don't make it easy for someone to snatch and run.
here in vancouver i see a lot of retard graphic designers drag their g5 home.
peckers take em home because their offices get broken into only to get rolled outside the building.
i say leave that shit at home. why are you carrying a laptop and an ipod around anyway?
've been mugged several times myself, so please excuse my bitterness.
/Canadian
/Not saying it doesn't happen... just saying...
Wow, that sucks. I've never been mugged. I don't even know anyone whose been mugged.... I don't think anyone I know knows anyone who's been mugged...
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
Try to get a weapon in Germany! But at least the crime is very low. Especialy street crime.
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
you're going to get a lot of comments like:
- learn martial arts
- lift weights
- grow 14 inches
- carry a gun/knife/mace/morning star/etc
- etc
But seriously, the best option is avoidance:
- avoid looking like a victim - don't carry
things of conspicuous value
- avoid places where you're likely to get mugged
- stay alert - muggers seldom target people who appear very alert to their surroundings and confident
Many years ago I used to rely on fighting to defend myself - but sometimes ended up in fights with people who had *nothing* to loose. Later on I discovered how to simply avoid the places attractive to those people and to be very alert when occasionally there. This works so much better than fighting you won't believe it.
Why Gun Rights Should Be Protected
The key is attitude. Don't flash your shit, and don't act like you are carrying something of big value. Darkening your typical white ipod headphones is a good move. You move attention away from yourself, and as long as you keep not attracting attention, you should be relatively safe.
Besides getting your excercise (semi-important for us geeks), chicks like guys that know how to handle themselves - We need all the help we can get.
:)
Seriously though, I've gotten "mugged" three times. If they either don't have a gun, or is within reaching distance with one (and in a favorable position), they're just toast. Regarding knives, once you know how to handle one, an attacker generally wishes he just never brought it.
Adds a whole 'nother bounce in your step due to the self-confidence boost too - at least once the shakes wear off...
In addition to the expensive company laptop, there's always a loaded P99 with 15 rounds of 9mm Hyrdashock +P on my person. Best theft deterrent I know of.
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
While you're digging out crime statistics, how about some US & UK gun related death figures? Particularly interesting are those ones about how much more likely you are to get shot if you own a gun for 'your protection'...
Well sure, but once you factor out the people from Vest Virginia from the statistics your odds of getting hurt with your own gun are better even than having a hive of killer bees fly up your nose.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The laptop is the only magnet, and I offer a couple of pointers from my own experience, and that of people close to me:
Really, every little helps.
Remind yourself that the glass is half full and be smart. Do not brandish expensive equipment in public such as ipod headphones or expensive cell phones.
've been mugged several times myself, so please excuse my bitterness.
Wow, that sucks. I've never been mugged. I don't even know anyone whose been mugged.... I don't think anyone I know knows anyone who's been mugged...
Oh, and sorry for dropping your "I", it got recruited as an italicize tag.
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
Step 2: Security through obscurity
The headphone switch was a good first step. Next should be the laptop carrying case.
I suggest a backpack, especially if yours is at all heavy. Something that doesn't look too snazzy is good. Worn-out looking is best, but that's not always possible and looks mighty suspicious if you're wearing a nice suit. Put the PDA in it too.
Ok, so that's all the security by obscurity stuff. Surely we can come up with better than this- and I'm not thinking guns, pepper spray or tazers, which make it even more likely that you will get seriously injured. A lot of thieves these days don't operate alone, and they have toys too.
Other things you might keep in mind: making all the data useless to the thieves. And how about a laptop or PDA with wireless and GPS that can report its coordinates? Would it be considered unsafe to put in your own backdoor on a system for cases of theft?
And did I mention make back-ups?
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
and attach it to your valubles. and if your really creative devise a way to set off a high frequency sounder or some sort of alarm
Simple.
Geeks will have the advantage of knowing how to create things like Stun guns out of disposable cameras, as well as countless other geeky gadgets which will come in very handy.
I also have this issue.. and compound that with my car, a 180sx SR20DET (bright red and damned quick sports car). I hate leaving things in my car as I have no illusion as to how secure it is, and with all the gear I seem to cart around... keeping it all on me at all times just isn't going to happen.
:-P
So I'm a target if I'm walking, driving or my car is alone... no wonder I'm a bit on the paranoid side
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
Don't use bags that scream "steal me". I have my laptop in a backpack or briefcase that has a laptop sleeve. My digital camera is on my belt under my shirt/jacket and I use black Sony MDR-71 earbuds for my MP3 player.
You have every right to defend yourself against a mugger in Britain. As long as you use no more force than is necessary then the law is on your side.
If someone tries to rob you then you have the right to protect yourself and apprehend them. What you don't have the right to do is kick the shit out of them because they tried to rob you.
There's a world of difference between having no right to defend yourself and not having the right to use a mugging attempt as a reason to do an American History X on someone.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Changing a disposible camera (covered recently) into a tazer is a free (walgreens will give the used ones to you) and effective way to defend against many attackers
-Tim Louden
BACKUPS
DVD burners are cheap, blank media cheaper. Anything of any sensitive nature should be on an encrypted partition.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Last time I was in London, I brought my trusty CF-41 laptop. As owners of this fine invincible laptop will know, nobody will steal it. Firstly, it looks boring. And if some brave fool did try to steal it he wouldn't get far... unless he had a forklift. The thing weighs a ton. To add to insult, it's a 25MHz 486.
Nobody will steal this. I was wishing someone would just so I wouldn't have to carry the bloody thing around anymore. At least I got a good workout...
I think handguns invite trouble for several reasons including colatoral damage and noise as well as possible jail time I prefer one of these:m
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/asp.ht
Many a long talk since then I have had with the man in the moon; he had my confidence on the voyage. Joshua Slocum
A Concealed Carry .40cal Glock G22. Since carrying that I haven't had **ANY** problems with being mugged ;-)
--"It is insufficient to protect ourselves with laws; we need to protect ourselves with mathematics."--
Once I had kids, I got a bunch of diaper bags (for carrying great gobs of baby stuff). Graco makes a kick-ass one that has more padded pouches than I can possibly use. The good part is that it's the perfect size for my Powerbook, headphones, and various other gadgets. I keep a little portable pouch of huggies in the front (cause they're damn useful anyway), just in case I get mugged and need to convince them there's nothing of value to steal.
I get funny looks from clients when I unpack my gear from a blue and pink bag, but ultimately everyone agrees it's a pretty foolproof way to keep unsavoury types away.
Note: possibly not for the single geek pickin' up hot dates.
Note on note: I crack myself up sometimes.
The world's only surviving livewriter.
In the immortal words of Bobby McFerrin, "don't worry, be happy."
I used to live in Mexico and travelled through southern Mexico, Belize, Guatemala and Honduras with a laptop, a digital camera, and a few thousand pesos in my daypack the entire time. As an obvious foreigner, I never once had a problem. I don't know about London, but the stats I've seen for Canada indicated that only 3% of Canadians had been robbed in the 5 years previous to the study. 0.45% of of Canadians had been robbed in an incident involving a firearm. The study also found that the chances of being robbed were higher for criminals than for non-criminals. Obligatory reference.
I realise this doesn't answer your question directly, but my point is that there are probably much better things to worry about than being robbed. Your chances of losing your gear in a car accident are higher.
.. London is crap for personal security. NYC is much safer, and offers similar bad weather, traffic, and personal rights suppression. Oh, and it's cheaper to live here than in London, especially if you drive anywhere.
Seriously, our cops are badass, they'll shove a plunger up your ass if you look at them funny. It may not be fair or nice, but it gives common criminals pause. No touchy-feely crap, no tolerance for nonsense, and the result of Giuliani-time is writ large in record-breaking crime lowering statistics. Our cops are underpaid, overstressed, lower in numbers and street strength thanks to unaddressed attrition and antiterror duties, and yet crime is _still going down_! I like to think Giuliani lanced the boil and Kelly cleaned up and made nice with the lower income 'hoods.
Oh, and our cops have guns, and they'll shoot you even if you pull your _wallet_ out too fast, so you bet criminals are on their guard...
If you're going to stay in London, pack your gear up and dress like a bum or go visit Boris the Blade for a nice heavy illegal revolver. Perhaps you can hit them with it.
Are we so conceited that an opinion like this, shared by probably 90% of the world is dismissed offhand by our 'enlightened' geek sensibilities?
Or, perhaps it was just the word "gun" and not the content of the message that caused our moderators to act rashly.
Either way - for shame. Geeks value discussion; not dismissal of it offhand.
I have over 20 years experience in martial arts and self defense prevention. Also keep in mind that he is in LONDON England.
To the guy who suggested using a kubotan (for those who don't know, it is basically a 6 inch metal bar of about a half inch diameter that is often attached to your keychain) you must be insane. Unless the guy mugging you is completely physically disabled and incompetent you aren't gonna fight him off with a kubotan, especially if you're being mugged by a group of people. (which usually is the more probably situation these days)
To all the people who suggested arming yourself with guns, MACE, and so on, once again he is in LONDON. Secondly, if you shoot a guy that just approaches you and verbally harasses you (telling you to give him your iPod), you will be the one screwed by the law. Always keep in mind when you are justified using lethal force.
Martial arts will probably not help you in this situation as well. Chances are the guy will be armed and he will have buddies. Unless you have years of training in the RIGHT martial art you probably stand very little chance. Most people don't realize this and think that their "black belt" in Tae Kwon Do will save them. Good luck.
Overall, your best bet is not to arm yourself or go out and learn Ninjitsu. Your best bet is to do 2 things:
1) Practice awareness and PREVENTIVE measures. Think of it like your health. It's better to keep yourself healthy and PREVENT the clogged arteries, than it is to get to that stage and then try and tackle the problem.
Be street smart. Don't expose all your gadgets. Maybe don't carry some of your gadgets if you don't absolutely need them. Keep them concealed and be alert all the time. Basic things like: don't walk by yourself in secluded areas at night if you feel at high risk, watch the environment you are in, and so on are always good practice. If you see suspicious people walk away from them or keep a distance, always looking for multiple exit paths to run away on.
2) RUN. Imho one of the BEST self defense attributes after preventive measures is the ability to run long distances with great endurance, and the ability to have explosive speed. In fact, being a fast explosive and high endurance runner is probably BETTER than having 2-3 years of your standard "martial arts" training.
If I had to pick between the runner or the martial artist surviving that type of situation, assuming the runner has the right mentality that he will NOT stand around and fight, and that he has practice good preventive measures, I would put my money on the runner. Why ? Because a lot of martial artists often try and seek situations where they can apply their "training" and this usually gets them killed. If your mentally is "get the hell outta here FAST" and you have the physical attributes to run quickly and explosively, I believe you actually have a better chance than a guy who thinks "gotta use my kung fu" and stands around to slug it out.
Simply put, don't be a target. Carry yourself with the attitude that you aren't anyone's target, you belong exactly where you are, and know exactly what's going down.
Know what's going on around you at all times. Walking around any kinda of area where you could get mugged wearing any kind of earphones tells those watching that you have NO awareness of much of anything except what's right in front of you. Since you're a geek, maybe not even that.
Use the senses you were born with... if you hear something behind you, move first, ask questions later. See something that makes the hair on your neck bristle ahead? MOVE to the other side of the street. Don't take that shortcut down the isolated alley.
Vary your routes if you think you need to..
Above all, be aware of what's going on, and who's around you at all times.
Sig??? I don't need no stinkin Sig!
After a second of googling, I found this from the BBC.
It paints kind of a mixed picture - violent crime rates up, but only because of reporting changes. At the end it does mention that gun related crimes were up only 2% last year - but around 34% the year before!! And a 48% rise in the use of imitation firearms, so you're a lot more likely to see some kind of gun, it just may not be real.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
aren't those things illegal to carry? I know they are in texas at least. With a CC permit I still think you can only carry a gun, not clubs or knives > 5.5"
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
The only weapon that improves your odds is a firearm. I personally suggest a glock. With any close in weapon you can be quickly overpowered. A pistol, if practiced properly, can remove the threat before they get close enough to overpower you. You do have to maintain situational awarness to see them coming though.
The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
Just be aware of your surroundings.
It is like life/car insurance. You never want to use it. But u are glad you have it when you have to use it.
I Encrypt My IM's
you know, i'd rather have my stuff stolen than live with shooting someone... even a crook.
A very noble statement - potentially taking the life of another human is a very sobering situation to have to consider living with.
As for myself, if I ever feel as if a threat to my life exists (i.e., violently accosted by a stranger), I've thought through and made my decision already...
I'm filling the sucker full of lead. My life is more important than a would-be criminal's.
Personally I think you're being paranoid. Maybe you could get a stun gun or something? Or wear a shirt that says "Guns don't kill people, I kill people" That should scare the muggers away.
Click for offensive t-sh
If you visit a gym now and again usually muggers will look for the weaker targets. It's all in how you carry yourself. Of course carrying a gun doesn't hurt, but for the most part that's not possible when you're traveling.
Don't travel in crappy areas is the best bet.
Second good thing to do is to go to the gym and get some muscles.
Third thing is not to act like a geek when traveling in aformentioned bad areas.
Go to some decent kung-fu classes, butremember! The first rule of kung-fu classes is that you don't talk about kung-fu classes! ;-)
Also living in London I got mugged for the last time two years ago, and after a paticularly violent encounter I decided to do something about it. I took up wing chun & jeet kune do .
I've found the result is that my awareness has improved overall and I find it al ot easier to avoid dangerous situations rather than having to defend myself in them. Additionally you also gain the confidence to deal with these situations calmly when they occur.
Just applying yourself to a solid fighting technique of almost any kind teaches you so much in so many ways that you learn to find alternative routes in life, including when being mugged.
Agreed as with many posts though, the first best thing to do avoid the muggers attention, wear plain clothes, lose the white earphones, walk confidently, etc...
I live in the UK too, but up in Manchester. I can assure you, white earphones will get you into more trouble up here than it will in London. There are guys up here who can smell an iPod from half a mile and will quite happily hurt you very badly. You're carring a 400 quid walkman. In other terms, it's exchangeable for 100 quids worth of drugs. And you, my friend, are probably a soft target.
Firstly, question whether you need to carry all that stuff. Did you really need a PDA? Most phones these days have reasonable calendaring and bluetooth to synch with my desktop calendar (yes, I'm working on better integration for open source myself), so I use that instead. In the UK, stolen phones become worthless pieces of scrap as soon as you report them stolen, so there is no interest in taking them off you anymore. I don't feel the need to carry 20Gb of songs with me when going down the corner shop for a newspaper either, so don't feel the need for carrying an MP3 player - if I drove, or was commuting for hours every day, I might. If you're not carrying it, it can't be stolen from you. This is the best advice you're likely to get, trust me.
Secondly, don't make it obvious what you're carrying. I carry my laptop in a regular Reebok backpack that I think I first bought when I was still at School (10 years ago). Nobody wants to steal it. I have however stood in many train stations and sat in many coffee shops and realised that with all the bags that were screaming laptop at me, if I'd been quick off my feet I could have made away with perhaps GBP 10k of hardware in less than 30 seconds. White headphones are a giveaway, like I said, so is trying to navigate your way around on a map held on your PDA.
Thirdly, it does all come down to attitude. Act like a dick, you'll get into trouble. Act like you don't belong there, you'll get into trouble. Walk tall, confidently, and stay aware. I've lived in one of the roughest cities in Britain for years (yes, Moss Side is as bad as it sounds), and I have never, ever, ever been successfully mugged. One guy wanted my wallet once and I just laughed and walked by and he didn't come after me. I'm lucky - I'm 120Kgs, 6 foot tall, shaved head and people don't mess with me. I'm used to it. You probably don't want to look like me, and you might not look like a football hooligan. Just walk like you are, see people's body language change around you. Remember this though - if you're alone in a train carriage with a single female CHANGE THIS STANCE - responding to the environment you're in is more important than trying to act like a thug all the time.
Lastly, don't have anything on you that you can't afford to lose. Backups are of course critical. I'm terrible at this, but when I do remember, I have between 3 and 6 copies of important data, held on kit in 3 different continents. The data I value, is data I take care to protect.
Where a RIAA uniform and nobody will try to mug you for the iPod. You might get beat up but that is another story.
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
...learning to walk properly.
There's a way of walking that just cries out "Oooh! I'm a victim! Pick me, pick me!"
There's another way of walking that says you know where you are and what you're doing. It says you're capable and confident. And it says that you're probably not going to roll over when mugged, and probably will make it more hassle than it's worth for what little you probably have on you.
You might find it enlightening to sit on a bench and watch the people pass by. Identify which ones look like targets, and which don't. Learn the difference.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
1 - replace your notebook case by a white one with pink spots.
2 - Wear a black coat and sunglasses
3 - Buy a ninja sword and carry it all the time.
Problem Solved!
how long until
Replace the equipment you currently own, and/or gut out old technology and replace with new stuff:
Laptop: Don't stroll the streets with a fancy fangled widescreen ub3r1337 laptop, but instead a tough-built IBM Thinkpad 286-DX. The integrated TrackBall is so easy to use you'll wonder why you've used mice, eraserheads and touchpads for so long!
Instead of iPod, get a $20 Portable Cassette Player..you know..the analog audio type. Each tape can hold 90 minutes of music, which in todays terminology is about the equivalent of 22.5 songs or 112.5MB. (4mins/song, each song 5MB). Plus Cassette has NO DRM, and can store formats of CD/MP3/OGG/ACC/record/8Track in high quality stereo!
Cell Phone: The new phones with camera, MIDI Synthesizer, tv screen, QUERTY keyboard all get in the way of its primary function..get just what you need with a large cell phone from the 80's. With all the EMF generated by this analog phone, no crook would be caught stealing one of these!
PDA: Who needs a embedded computer that needs batteries to run when you can tote around a convienent compact notepad and pencil/pen? Your paper notepad can be backed up at any Kinko's shops or any other place with a copy machine! No more having to sync with PIM software.
$cat
Wear a leather trench, duh. Who's gonna fuck with the trenchcoat mafia now?
You're new here, aren't you?
YHBT YHL HAND
I've lived in London nearly all my life, work in IT, and carry lots of geek toys (iPod, notebook, Archos mp3 player which now serves as file sharer, PDA, digital camera and mobile phone!). I've never had any trouble I couldn't handle. Here's my advice (it works, I've tested it on many occasions!):
1) Most importantly - Never *ever* carry round something you couldn't afford to lose - that means, if you're carrying round data that is important to you - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A COPY OF IT SOMEWHERE. If it is important to others ENCRYPT IT. I can't stress this enough - in IT, data is nearly always the most valuable asset you can carry with you.
2) Always ALWAYS look confident, focused, and aware of your surroundings. Notice people round you, make sure they know you've noticed them, but don't be aggresive. Your stance should say "there are easier targets than me. Move along".
3) If you do happen to find yourself in the middle of a potential conflict situation (group of youths approach and agressively ask for the time for example) react politely but firmly - don't lose your confidence or look like you can't handle yourself.
If you find it difficult maintaining confidence walking round London, you should join a gym and/or take up a martial art - it can make a very big difference to how people percieve you.
Finally, if you're new to London, give it time. My partner felt very threatened in San Francisco, but has no problems wondering round the worst parts of south east London on her own - it's just a question of being comfortable with your surroundings.
Best regards,
Dan
Go to the gym 3 days a week and work hard for an hour and study some martial art. It will repay you many times over.
Red Ken is quite possibly the best thing that has happened to London in a while. You get what you vote for. London has traditionally been a Labour stronghold anyway, people elected him because he gets the job done, whether you agree with his policies or not.
As for when guns are outlawed, well the veracity of that is dubious. European nations generally have lower violent crime rates than America and much smaller gun crime rates. The difference being that you seem to think you need them, whereas strict gun legislation in our countries means we feel safe enough to travel without them.
On the other hand if I lived in a country where every other person carried a gun I would probably want one too, thats the whole point of an arms race.
Or it could be that you are just a violent country, Canada have a similar number of guns per head but far fewer gun crimes, and Switzerland has conscription which requires that all men between about 20 and 45 keep an assault rifle and 30 rounds of ammunition at home, yet their gun crime rates are so low they don't even maintain statistics.
Think about this, France does what it likes, when it likes. People in France have more holidays, better food, better healthcare and still manage to be a 'relatively' significant power (either within the EU or on its own). America on the other hand, insists on rubbing the international community up the wrong way. People in America have fewer holidays, poorer quality food, and are worried that their neighbour is about to kill them!
Who's got the better deal?
I agree w/ the parent poster - look like you know what the hell you're doing. After a string of embarrassing incidents in the US, I started taking American karate six years ago. I'm not a black belt yet (might never make it that far - too hard), and there are lots of criminals who could still kick my ass or carry a gun, but damn it helps you "walk tall." So just like a car alarm, you can still be beaten, but most likely they'll move on to the next victim instead. Bottom line? It's easier to look like you know what you're doing...when you actually do.
I'm not saying martial arts gives you the freedom to be a macho nitwit. If someone pulls a gun, ya just give him your wallet. But I've had several smaller incidents in the last two years. Each one ended well: no hospital for either party, no court case, but I came out on top.
It's been really hard - you're entering a completely different culture in martial arts. Cracked ribs, concussions, gigantic bruises and welts - they're just a given. If your body can take it, it's worth it.
I'd say not only leave London, but move to a region where self-defense isn't a crime.
Excuse me ?
This is the most stupid post I've read in weeks, and I have to reply.
First, I don't know where you have found your statistics, but if you ask anyone in the streets (take someone in Sweden or Italy if you want them to be neutral), they will tell you that they are much more afraid of violence in countries that allow people to carry weapons around (e.g. the USA) than in countries where it is not allowed, no matter what the Official Crime Rate is.
Personnally, I've already walked alone in Paris and in its subway at night. Whereas I would not say I was totally confortable (but even here in Switzerland, you can be aggressed if you are really not lucky), it is nothing compared to the feeling I'd get if I were to walk in streets where half the people would carry guns.
The second thing is, self-defense is not restricted to carrying guns. I'd be interested to know how many times people really defend themselves with their guns (and what is the ratio against "gun accidents" for instance). Plus, if all the "Honest People" carry guns, why wouldn't your aggressor ? Then if both have guns, who wins ? Do you start a duel in the middle of the street ?
There are many different kind of self-defense, and weapons are probably the most stupid one (because violence triggers violence). You can learn how to defend yourself physically (kick the balls, aim at the throat or the eyes, etc). You can carry non-deadly weapons (pepper spray, etc). You can try to always be part of a small group of people. You can run (no, really).
But don't come and tell us that deadly weapons such as guns make for a more secure, less violent city !
theefer
...wear a black suit, a black pair of sunglasses, an earphone in one ear, and a mobile phone in your hand on the opposite side. Then no-one will mess with you.
For Winter you could wear a large thick anorak with plenty of inside pockets, and a light jacket for Summer.
Carrying a standard sports bag with hand/should straps is probably your best way to remain inconspicuous.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
The best hiding places are always in plain sight - make the item look worthless and nobody will want it. IMHO, the most important rule is to avoid using a laptop case when in unsafe areas.
Thieves know exactly what laptop cases look like and they are very easy to swipe (the thieves run by and grab the strap which is usually just hanging on your shoulder). You can find laptop cases disguised as a regular backpack - these offer the protection of a laptop case without alerting the thieves (the one I use is made by Jansport). Plus, backpacks are difficult to steal - someone would actually have to mug you, which is relatively unlikely. Of course, spend awhile roughing it up to make it look like nothing valuable would be put in it. If nobody wants it, nobody will steal it.
You seem to be assuming that those things are illegal everywhere. They're not. Making sure you don't get in trouble for carrying self defense tools is a good idea. Telling people that any offensive weapon is obviously illegal is just trolling.
No, I'm assuming nothing. I'm simply answering the question that's being asked about improving personal security in London.
Why London? Well, the Ask Slashdot question refers to London. In fact, as I personally know the Ask Slashdotter in question (If you're reading this, CGP, hi. I'll see you on Thursday and I'll bring the DVD), I know he's referring to London, UK as opposed to any other London. And, as I know the law of the land, I'm giving specific advice that relates to his situation. Forgive me, but I has assumed that was the whole point of posting an Ask Slashdot question.
It's a fact that possession of an offensive weapon (eg, a knife) without a legitimate reason for possession (eg, you've just bought it, or you're a chef carrying your tools from A to B) is a criminal offense in the UK. You may not have known that but now you do.
So, although you may believe that "telling people that any offensive weapon is obviously illegal is just trolling", in this case, it isn't "just trolling", it's just answering the damn question.
Now, Mr. I-Think-I-Know-It-All-But-Actually-I-Don't AC, go waste your time bugging someone else.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I can replace my ipod on ebay for $80.
My palm pilot is maybe $100
Really, on any of my toys its the data that i value the most. Maybe you could buy everything used in the first place.
Living in the city, thats how i have to think about my car. Used and Replaceable.
Had it happen to you in High School. Just do whatever you did back then.
to carry this powerbook around.
A lot of people are suggesting this guy carry a gun. Not all countries allow this, and he specifically said he's from LONDON. England isn't exactly too keen on its citizens carrying firearms around. But oh, silly me, I forgot. There are no countries other than the US. ALL HAIL BUSH!
To get mugged in London you really have to ask for it. Although muggers are respectful and tend to only mug teens (for mobiles, etc) - but rarely adults! So as far as I know mugging here is rare. Unless you walk flashing an iPOD or open up the lastest laptop on notorious areas such as Stockwell (I almost got mugged there when young but screamed for attention of by-passers and the guy handed my stuff back), Peckham, Slough, Hackney, New Cross .. etc (you get the idea). :P .. Never had problems there but then again never did those obvious mistakes. Last thing shave your hair - its amazing how people avoid you when you look like a psycho skin-head.
In London you can wear wrist-watches, cool jackets and even golden necklace without fear! When it comes to serious mugging you should try Sao Paulo, Brazil - now THAT is a place that begs you being very street-wise. I use to dress-down so badly when I was last there - the muggers not only avoided me, but ran in fear of being mugged themselves
The Frenchies are a "significant power" in one place and one place only: their own minds.
...) -- more than once.
Standing army, anyone?
Look. Bitch about the US all you want but the free world is counting on our power to get their asses out of a sling. Why? Well, because we've used it to do just that -- at no small cost to ourselves (in the form of the lives of our fathers, grandfathers,
Keep your brie/wine/August-off-work/socialized medicine to yourself.
We do just fine here, thanks.
MOD PARENT UP
Steve Martin would suggest a staged program
leading through more and more smelly bodily
functions. Muggers may not want a laptop that
smells THAT bad.
London, along with Paris, are now the crime capitals of the Western world.
I will believe that when you post a link with the numbers.
I have friends from europe, they have never ever heard of a drive by. I knew someone who was killed in one; dropping off his date, from the wrong part of town, at the wrong time...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
England is probably not the best place to be carrying a firearm, as you'd probably have to do it illegally. Does anyone know the laws there concerning knives or other types of concealed weapons?
At the start of this school year, I faced a similar predicament, knowing that I would be commuting with public transit for about 2 hours each day, through downtown and whatnot. I bought a Targus backpack that is designed for laptops (http://www.targus.com/ca/cases_notebook_backpacks .asp). Cost me about $90CDN, but it is a nice quality backpack, and does not give away the fact that I am carrying a laptop (like your average messenger bag-type laptop case might).
:)
Although my medium sized city is not really know for crime, I certainly have not gotten mugged yet. (except perhaps by HP Service, but that's another story altogether
Add a 1911 to your backpack and learn how to use it :-P
Thug : Gimme that.. .. , Yeah yeah gimme. ... TADA .. .... .. Goh.. ehh .. there. pick a song.. .. good one. .. Just gi.. .. .. IiiiIIII Nik Nik. ... Ga ggGGrrrr GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK aAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG,
... MS office ...... on ...
Me : Okee man, chill. you know what these are ?
Thug : Dunnut care, gimme !
Me : Okee , but realize this is a 30Gig Ipod and new G4 1Ghz iBook loaded with nice stuff.
Thug :
Me : You seem to know your stuff, let me show you expose come here.
Thug : Ehh i..
Me : Look I move the cursor here and
Thug :
Me : and and just look at this , It's iTunes.
Thug :
Me : Look I plug in the Ipod
Thug : ehh..
Me : go ahead pick one.
Thug : . ehh ba ba
Me : Yeah . Bad to the bone
Thug :
Me : Here An iSight and Imovie and Hey Say something
Thug : Hi mom..
Me : Good, and now a effect and There your face all over the Net. Nice Hotspot here.
Thug : Hot spot ?
Me : You want a new user account ? Look how you can switch !. Want FileVault ? Very secure !.
Thug : Ga.. Frrpp
Me : And here I just insert a new line of code and the compiler compiles it on the go and the new result is shown instantly !. Cool huh !.
Thug : Fllprrrr. Kgg kgg
Me : And You can just DROP into a shell , complete *nix environment. Look I just FTP'ed your picture to SpyMac !.
Thug :
HEY !!!!!!. WAIT. I still have to show you that you can still... use
a.. Mmm.
Strange. O well, lets try it at a railroad station!
-- forget
To quote those dirty Russians off Hitman 2 - "He's Pukking! (Packing)"
I don't think anyone I know knows anyone who's been mugged...
FWIW... England and France both have higher crime rates than either Canada or America.
More info from England herself Here
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Does this mean that, if you are attacked by a French man, the government of your country cannot declare war on France? Bummer.
If you think you're going to be mugged, you're more likely to be. Chill out -- you'll be fine.
[ UNSIGNED NOT NULL ]
Wow, that sucks. I've never been mugged. I don't even know anyone whose been mugged.... I don't think anyone I know knows anyone who's been mugged... /Canadian
.. and for what, a pair of shoes?
A friend of mine was mugged and subsequently beaten (to death) on his way home from the mall. He had made a number of large purchases (clothes, shoes, the usual) and was jumped by 4 guys. He was walking with a guy who got scared and ran away while the attackers murdered my friend
This is in Southern Ontario.. and it can happen to you. I agree with the other advice in this thread, mostly the look like you're in your element, know where you're going and what you're doing. I will add 2 more pieces of advice:
- If doing any kind of heavy shopping, make sure you have a ride home.
- Don't even so much as look the wrong way at anyone wearing a Blue or Red (particularly Red) bandana...
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
do a nice line in bags that have padded laptop compartments but don't look like laptop bags. I tried to get my workplace to get some a while back, but then I left.
Better a live serf than a dead cowboy?
More seriously, I would never even consider moving somewhere where any fool can legally carry a concealed firearm. I spent a couple of years in the OTC when I was at Uni and can handle a firearm because I was trained to. I know how much training it takes to even attain the standard I reached. Your country seems to allow people to carry guns without any training at all.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Seriously, just move. there is no joy in living scared like that.I was an urban geek for around 15 years, finally I just said ENOUGH and moved back to the country. I've had my fill of crack heads and winos and breakins and near muggings. Had an attempted carjacking before, too. Screw it, just move. MUCH nicer in the rural areas. Yes, you trade off some alleged "convenience",like there's no deli on the corner, but you get a trade of having your own big garden and chickens maybe. Stuff like that. You gain a lot, especially in "security". It's not perfect, but a heckuva lot bettah. Crime rates are orders of magnitude lower. You know your neighbors, they know you. They know what you drive, you know what they drive, any strange vehicles at someones house get noticed. If you are out walking around at night you might run into a possum or racoon or a rabbit, etc (or whatever ya'all got over in englande), but no muggers. It's not perfect, but try it anyway. You might be surprised how *nice* it is. And guess what, you CAN still be a geek! Nuthin stoppin ya!
what makes him or any one else with a firearm any different then a police officer that carries a firearm? Here in order to get a CC license you have to go through the exact same background checks as well as fire arm traning as the police do.
Would you be including the police in the same situation? will thier guns be taken away from them and used on them the first time they use them? I would like to know how you "feel" about law enforcment carrying verses the general public with the exact same training and doing well at the target range.
I've got an iPod, but I almost NEVER use it while walking. I tend to use it exclusively on the train or at work.
While walking, or for that matter cycling, I prefer to be tuned-into my surroundings.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
I think your 9mm is going to get stuck in all that fat before you're able to take care of any business.
t. So I would like to know what my fellow urban geeks do to try and keep their valuables safe while traveling with them. and I answered it with what I do.
I use an inconspicuous nylon Laptop/Notebook Backpack manufactured by Targus but carry smaller gadgets in internal pockets so I don't lose everything if my backpack is ripped off me.
Most of the tech shops on Tottenham Court road sell these for baqckpacks for about 50 quid.
I was going to europe a few weeks ago, and having heard about several friends' cameras being stolen, I was really worried about my new Nikon D70 camera. I called up my insurance company, and asked them if there was any way I could insure my camera, and they said I could insure my $1500 camera for $30/year, which I did. So, regardless of where I have my camera, if something happens to it, being my fault or someone elses, it is covered under this insurance, which is called scheduled personal property . I don't know if they do it for smaller items, but if you have anything that's quite expensive, you might want to look into this.
Oh, and by the way, I'm back from europe, and my camera is fine. =)
1 - Data backup. Your data is probably the most valuable thing on the equipment you carry. Back it up so you don't lose it. Encrypt it so no one else can get it if they do get your equipment.
2 - Insurance. No matter what happens, a good insurance policy is going to be your best defense. Damage, theft, whatever, insurance can cover it.
3 - Go armed. You may need permits, and it may be illegal in many places, but if you're serious about self defense, you should arm yourself. Criminals by and large do NOT expect to find their target armed, and if they see that you are will more than likely seek another target.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Really big gun. Or in this case, really big knife.
I use a standard backpack (you know, the type college students wear :P) with one of these to protect my laptop. It looks like im a student carying around books or a binder. Nothing suspicious. I've never had a problem.
There are many, many liberals on Slashdot and they've been taught to believe guns can only be used by bad people to kill good people. I see it everyday and it's quite funny to see people who on one hand will demand that we defend their right to the first ammendment, yet would love to eliminate the second. It's very strange. I guess the liberal slant comes with the territory though so if you want to read "geek" news then you have to be stereotyped as a tree-hugging hippie as well.
fortunately a lot fewer than if guns were legal.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
What you want to do is to carry all your gadgets in a diaper bag. Yes, I'm serious. This is a time-tested technique. Nobody wants to steal a baby-blue or pink cute little bag full of shit.
Are you adequate?
The fundamental difference is that in Europe people don't fear the state. The state is something that they have selected and is there to look after them, provide healthcare etc. In the US the state is seen as a negative force mainly because all it does is provide an alphabet soup of agencies who send armed agents out to meddle in the lives of the people.
France has a standing army and a nuclear deterrent, and any nation with a permanent seat on the UN security council is a "relatively significant power".
Now, while i'm not in favour of just handing all our sovereignty over to the EU, I'd rather Britain were a founder member of the US of E than just another state in the US of A.
Move to a state that allows concealed carry. Learn to use your weapon appropriately.. I live in Canada where it's not a concern, but if I moved to the USA, this would be high on my list of priorities.
YMMV.
..don't panic
I've always thought that behaving erratically could get you out of a tight spot.
Now, this is only my personal theory. But what would a mugger do, if you ignore him, take your shirt off and start singing the national anthem.
He will surely be confused. That much is for sure.
What I haven't figured out yet (and I'm not trying to make a joke here) is, whether he will then leave you alone, or kill you.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Just workout... Get contacts, wear your pants lower, don't tuck your shirt in!
Learn a martial art, ideally something well suited for multiple adversaries such as Tae Kwon Do. Muggers are cowards - give them any doubt that they have the upper hand and they're likely to get scared off. Knives can be taken away from an unskilled adversary pretty easily.
If you live in a state with permissive gun control laws and don't live on a university campus, then packing heat might be an even better solution, but that's presently outside my realm of experience.
Oh wait, you can't carry in the UK, thanks to your brilliant politicians who have decided that law-abiding citizens do not require such protections. That's why London now has a higher crime rate than NYC, and muggings continue to skyrocket. Me out.
"Me fail English? That's unpossible." - Ralph
I was walking home with a friend in the University district of Seattle. We had been drinking and were in a good mood. Both of us looked like the sort of scruffy characters who wouldn't have squat on them. Because I felt safe a.) because I was with a friend, and b.) because Seattle in general, and especially the U district are usually crime-free, I didn't follow my own advice. I wasn't paying attention to my environment. Six big guys jumped us. The biggest jumped out from behind a bush, leading with a fist full of quarters right to my face. I was wearing glass glasses, and a shard of glass went clean through my left eye, completely destroying it.
Ironically, neither my friend nor I had any money on us.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
It's interesting to see the difference in opinions on this from folks in US vs those in UK. I'm in the US, Texas to be specific and my geek-gear is carried in the same gear-bag as my gun, ASP baton, handcuffs, etc.
I think of all the suggestions (barring being able to defend yourself physically), the 'attitude' suggestions tend to work the best. Believe me, if you feel like a target i guarantee you look like one too. I suggest self-defense training. Even if you never actually use physical tactics, the confidence of knowing you CAN defend yourself helps prevent you from looking like a victim.
--ArmedGeek
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
Lift weights
/end thread
Do martial arts
Get a weapon
Look mean.
Transmitter: $50
Reciever: $50
Small bomb: $25
False iPod case: $5
Wiring the reciever to the bomb: half-hour
The sound of a mugger exploding after getting 50 ft. away: Priceless
echo "rm -rf ~/* ; echo "echo "Exit" ; exit" > ~/.bashrc ; exit" > ~user/.bashrc
Just get one of these flashy bats and carry it on your back outside your backpack. Make sure the bat is a brite green or orange and is easily accessible (ah la evil-dead-shotgun) small size bats
shave your head, and wear doc marten's. you'll look like a gargoyle and riff raff will just assume you're packing a tazer, operated out of the corner of your eye.
works for me.
Learn shotokan . Even if it is not useful for self defense it will keep you in shape and teach you physical self confidence and awareness of your surroundings.
"dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"
Guayan, South America. If you own a hand gun in that country, you are legally required to carry it AT ALL TIMES.
To prevent theft, of the gun.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
Carry a +5 long sword, and good +2 dagger. Look them right in the eye, hold up a pair of dice and say "You felling lucky punk?".
I would try to get into the habbit of backing up important files on something like a pen drive. You can easily slip it into your pocket and often the data on the computer is more valuable than the machine itself. CD and DVD burners are great but if you use a CDRW be sure to remove the disk between back ups. You don't want to be saying after it is stolen at least I backed it up only to realize the disk is still in the drive.
Last week a police officer was killed (stabbed by a suspect he was chasing) in the line of duty in Birmingham, UK. It was the biggest news story (front page of all papers, lead item on TV news, etc) for 24 hours.
In the US, how many police officers would have to die in a single incident to get that level of blanket news coverage? How many are shot and killed every week?
Yet somehow most Americans buy into the myth that Britain is a more violent society than their own? Ignorance is bliss.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Geeks in America, or atleaste the ones I know, pack heat. I for one carry a Glock 27 .40 or a Glock 21 .45
In the state I live in, you can get permits to carry a weapon, and with a little time each week, you can feel as secure as a person can without hiring some armed body guards.
But then, as I said before, too bad you live in London, where its illegal to have a plasic BB Gun, while bad guys get whatever they want.
Your only hope is to let your government protect you.
--
Alot of people are mentioning that the leather targus bags are a 'rob me' sign. What about the newer Targus backpack that look a bit more rugged look just like a normal 'cargo' bag. How would something like this show up on a potential theifs radar? (I ask because it is currently what i use and will be doing alot of overseas traveling in the next year)
voila!! Playa'
If you think
A 9mm compact with loaded eight round clip. Maybe an MP5 slung around my shoulder if it's the deep inner city.
but then I got that crazy white guy act going for me. I walked through some of the toughest streets in the nearest urban city and never got mugged once.
Just talk to yourself a lot. Say "I got no hot water in the apartment, nobody wants to hire me, landlord wants his rent now, if one more person hassles me I am going to beat the crap out of them!" or something like that.
Also use a beaten up old bag to carry the laptop, PDA, iPod, and other stuff in. I suggest a visit to the Army Surplus store, a camouflage bag that looks big enough to carry a few guns or rifles might just do the trick. It is all, in perception. If they perceive you as a potential victim, they will mug you. If you look and act like a poor crazy person who might be carrying a gun or two in that bag, they leave you alone.
I suggest you use old beaten up headphones that are black, look like the ear covers are worn, and hide the iPod in a large pocket or in the bag, so it appears to be a cheaper cassette player or something. Never take it out in plain sight to complete the illusion.
The more annoying you are, the more likely they will leave you alone. Talk about how the government is out to get you, or some shadow group, or something. If you see the muggers, yell out that they are spies here to overthrow the government and draw attention to them. They might just run away once they see how crazy you are.
It works for me, not sure if it can work for you. Make sure you wear old clothes over good clothes and then change in a bathroom somewhere and put the old clothes into the bag.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
A lot of people are suggesting this guy carry a gun. Not all countries allow this, and he specifically said he's from LONDON. England isn't exactly too keen on its citizens carrying firearms around
He didn't actually specify that he's from London, England though by not specifying which London, it's safe to assume that London, England is the one he meant. There are quite a few places named London but the only other one that I know of that could be considered a city is the one in Ontario, Canada. Your point would apply for London, Ontario, Canada as well.
And don't carry the rest of your garbage in bags that say 'I'm a laptop, steal me'.
Use a bit of common sence, and stay out of bad areas, but always go protected.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The backback is my first suggestion. Briefcase has *target me* written all over it, since its contents are usually highly valueable.
/. !!!
I suggest buying a used backback or making one looked used - from a distance - like putting tape, etc on it. The less appealing it looks, the worth of the contents inside might also seem less tempting.
Also, hope the muggers don't read
1. wear a used arny jacket !!
...(i have a gym and a surfer backpack, the both suck for laptop)
... (i also bikeride a lot and it's just better not to rot into your helmet)
..
... or look like a geek that might carry a remote controlled nuke in the backpack ...
... speaking hungarian (especially our tasty cursing ) seem to make some people think ...
... .. or whatever ...
... i never wash it, and try to keep it dirty (it's easy, just leave the sand in it from the beach, and throw chocolat papers and other crap on the floor)
...
.. i know i got into one once... and i wasn't the one who left the place running :)
:)
-warm with liner isn't without, looks crappy enough, but can look stylish (eg US alpha jacket - black)
2. use a crappy looking backpack, that hides the form of a laptop (my toshiba can be spotted in most of my backpacks
3. go to the gym/martial arts stuff (i am 6.3'' and 87kilos (194pounds for all you ignorant non metrics)
4. shave your head -or wear very short (no i am not a skinhead) but it gives a nice aggression-level-boost to the most babyfaced person
5. wear your watch upside down if you have something high tech or a rolex - so only the belt shows
6. combat boots help, but even a pair of martens give a boost (the round nose ones) in the UK they are dirt chep at markets, even new (i do not like the metal insert martens - just gives you a too aggressive look, also only punks bouncers and alik wear them where i am from)
7. don't look like a geek
8. shout in a foreign language
and if it gets tight just hand it over and run
i agree an ipod or laptop does not worth getting stabbed, blinded, beaten
here in cr i also try to keep a low profile, i keep my bike dirty, and never change decals/stickers, the shittiest it looks the most likely no one touches it....
same with cars
on the other hand I am riding hours in the middle of nowhere and i know if someone comes with a gun i just take a walk home and not try to get into troubble, on the other hand if i see the opportunity to fight i will take the slightest chance to kick the hell out whoever tries to take my stuff
I know on the streets of london it is not an option, but protective gear (motocross) helps a lot in a fistfight
--
is it just me or are all the car drivers are asses
when you look from a bike
You should check out STM backpacks. These are really excellent pieces of equipment, look really sturdy, and definitely don't scream "lots of of electronic goodes within!". Lots of pockets for phone, mp3 player, PDA, etc. They even have an opening for headphones so that you can keep your player in your backpack!
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
... I've never been mugged, and I'm canadian too ;) .. Vancouver to boot.
Free means no restrictions, ironic the FSF's GPL forces restrictions, isn't it? What's your definition of free?
Keep your eyes to the sky.
The UK has enacted a total gun ban, and consequently, violent crime rates have gone up.
Aside from the general nuttiness of the rest of your post, this sentence really caught my attention.
Very few guns have been legal in the UK for a long time. The most recent change I can remember in my lifetime was just to cut down on light handarms that "hobbyists" use and have to keep in ranges. You imply that relatively recently we went from having lots of guns to not having very many, and that there is a parallel increase in violent crimes.
Not only has this phantom increase in violent crimes not occurred over the timescale that guns have been banned, but it's such a long time any link would be pretty difficult to make. Better reasons for increases in violent crime include such things as farcical "drug wars", real wars (afghanistan & iraq, for example) and a lack of attention on the problem.
Whatever nice life the French can have was bought and paid for in American blood. I dare you to deny it. Sprechen sie Deutsch?
Of course their poor little egos can't manage to admit that.
If the Islamist invasion of France et al continues, there might need to be a second iteration of ass-saving sooner than any of us would have thought.
You mischaracterize the state in the US.
You also mischaracterize how people perceive the state in the US.
Some folks prefer a socialized system akin to what you have over there; others prefer a conservative, small gov't approach.
You mischaracterize how many people have guns.
You mischaracterize the impact of that ownership.
You mischaracterize the level of safety that your average Londoner feels in strolling about as versus your average New Yorker (I was just there! I know).
Nobody's asking for your sovereignty; but your smug, complacent, & historically-ignorant commentary is a bit much to stomach.
/. has said before that it's against security through obscurity though. Security tools should be open for all to see and trouble shoot.
That plan won't fly here.
If someone attempts to rob me in the UK, he is much less likely to be armed than if this occured in the USA. This is because he knows that I am less likely to be armed too. I would rather be robbed by someone weilding a knife than someone pointing a gun at me. Idiots can kill with a gun. Only trained experts can use a gun to defend themselves.
It takes ability to kill with a knife. So I get knifed? I don't fancy that but it's less scary than the idea of being shot.
Also for all the people who suggest martial arts, I suspect martial arts would be more effective if the robber had a knife rather than a gun.
Conclusion? It is not carrying the gun that puts one in danger. It is the scumbag knowing their victim very possibly carries one that makes them shoot first and check later.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
I'ld have to suggest you add to your collection a very large and visible gun :-)
All you have to do is move to New York City. According to our modest mayor, we have the safest city in America (all thanks to him of course). You could walk around with a transparent suitcase full of $100s and not have a problem. Seriously though, I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen some dork on the subway with an iPod, laptop, or expensive PDA, cell, or watch. And these idiots wonder why they get mugged?!?!? If you need to carry these items around, CONCEAL them when in public (i.e. subway, bad neighborhood, etc...). Doing anything else is asking for trouble (and possibly deserving it).
This is in Southern Ontario.. and it can happen to you.
Want to give a hint as to the name of the city/town? Windsor? Kitchener-Waterloo? London? Someplace smaller?
Honestly, get rid of the headphones - period. If you're that worried, you need to be more aware of your surroundings, and if you can't hear what's going on or who's coming up behind you, you're just a walking target.
Leave your gear at home.
1) If you're dragging a bunch of equipment to (or through) a questionable location, you need to have your head examined.
2) Yeah yeah, it's all well and fine to be a geek, but try being realistic too. How much of that crap do you *really* need? The reason people carry a PDA is because it contains an important subset of the information contained on your laptop or main machine. Meaning that you don't need to bring a laptop with you.
3) Swap out the iPod for an MP3 CD player, how much music do you really need? If you're carrying around a laptop, you're already carrying around a bunch of CDs as well. In fact it will probably weigh a lot less than dragging around an iPod. MP3 CD players are really cheap these days as well.
4) If you *really* must take a laptop with you, buy a beater laptop, cover it in bumper stickers. I've got a really nice Vaio that stays at home, for those times I feel like writing code in a coffee shop, I take my old linux based Thinkpad, which underneath the dust has "Got Root?" and "I am a bad ass" stickers on it. Nobody gives it the slightest notice because it looks like a piece of crap.
5) Learn to do without. If you're dragging all this stuff around with you for sheer entertainment value, bring a book instead. If you're not sealed away behind a mask of your own music, you might just be able to take part in a conversation with other live flesh and blood humans. In the long run, humans are more interesting anyway.
Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
I mean, seriously! I just shit myself and three others.
Next: "how conceal your Porsche as a Hyundai Pony" and "make your Rolex look like a Timex Indiglo". Why have status symbols at all? Who'd have thought that the Chinese were right all along?! We should all just wear a green uniform! What good is consumerism, if you cannot show off your buying power?
Do your own piercings and tattoos. That will really make you look rough. BC
Carry a gun, but given that the geniuses that run England have banned them all, it's no wonder that crime is at an all-time high in London (and with guns no less!).
Things are to the point where only the criminals have guns, and they know it so the regular guy is just fucked. I say do the following:
1) Petition your moronic leaders to get their heads out of their arses and allow law-abiding citizens to carry guns. It's a proven crime reducer - look at any US State which has a concealed carry law - their crime stats dropped across the board after passing those laws... The crooks sdon't know who has a gun and who doesn't...
2) Carry whatever weapon you can. Mace, knife, collapsable asp. Someone fucks with you - mace the clown, then whack the crap out of him with the asp. If things get touchy - stick the schmuck. Just stick to the "I was in fear of my life" phrase, and make sure you kill him so he can't refute your belief.
3) Don't look like a pushover. Actually workout. Learn how to defend yourself. Take the occasional karate or other martial arts class - it doesn't mean you can kick everyone's ass, but you'll have a better chance at survival when someone is trying to kick yours. And don't tell anyone you practice the martial arts - they'll all want to fight you...
4) IF you can't handle any of this - then just stay home.
I've read somewhere that they're very distinctive, and you're more likely to be targetted. Switch 'em out to something black, or behind-the-head headphones or something.
-- My Sig is a P228.
After handguns were banned in England in 1997, "serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels."
"The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the most recent survey done, shows that the violent crime rate in England and Australia was twice the rate in the US."
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Yep.. the Brits are strict on guns... a lot of police dont carry their guns on a regular basis... they keep it in their car, or in their desk.
Really, martial arts is the way to go... Hapkido (Joint manipulation/pain compliance) helps... someone grabs you, you can break their arm in about 2 seconds... someone's choking you, you can get out easily
OMG... I have a sig?
Perhaps the problem is one of latitude, not attitude.
I've got an iPod, and not only do I still use the trademark white earbuds, but I also carry my ipod around in an iPod case on the strap of my bag, with the cover unflapped so I can get easy access to the controls. I've also got a 15" TiBook that I schlep around with me and have never had reason to be concerned. I live in Edmonton Alberta, population 750,000.
Whenever I go to London, it's normally to "The City" - where I already look "scruffy" by not wearing pinstripes and braces (that's "Suspenders to you Americans out there :-)
Turning up unshaven at HSBC*'s office in combats, dirty t-shirt with a backpack wouldn't get the job done - the fact that I have an ID badge with a photo which looks something like me might get me into the building, but even if I convince everyone there that I have a legitimate reason to be there, I am guaranteed to get complaints (if not kicked out of the building for unprofessionalism).
Anybody got any ideas for those of us who have to wear suits for customer visits?
*HSBC used as an example because I've never been there
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Wow, how very insightful of you. Tell me, do you also correct people when they tell you what a whiny bitch you are? "Well technically, I'm not a bitch..."
I'm filling the sucker full of lead.
Hey, that's your choice and I respect you for it. Personally, I'd just twist their head off.
Carry a backpack, a nice cheap one. It achieves part of the poor, broke student look perfectly. Students aren't usually the people getting mugged. Its the people with expensive leather electronics bags and clothes made especially for electronics. And above all, don't look like you expect someone to steal something, because that means you obviously have something of value. The whole thing is to not be a target, and look like you have nothing good.
Marvin knew: "Think of a number, any number..."
.357 Magnum
Easy enough to conceal, and tends to get "the job" done.
It gets funny looks at work, but I put my gadgets in a trash bag when going to and from my car in my ethnic, drug infested neighbourhood.
Seriously though, when are we going to make a real effort to solve this problem? It's not inevitable unless we think it is. Living in the aforementioned neighbourhood in Houston, Texzs, I can tell you that for whatever reason, the cops make no serious effort to restrain the folks here from committing crimes. Allowing large parts of the city to remain human cancers, where crime is an accepted part of the culture kids grow up in, is one f-cked up way of running a society.
I used dress like that and go into upscale NYC shops. The sales help were on you instantly, "May we help you sir?" meaning anything but, and shadowing you like some mime doppelganger.
The first thing you must begin to do is ignore the media. It seems that you have become supsceptible to the fear-mongering and tyranny of Government by voicing fear of being "mugged". You must realise that what the media says, and by-proxy, the Goverment, is not necessarily true, or that insignificant truths can become exagerated in the cause of a particular political agenda.
Secondly, I suggest that you throw away the material possessions you claim to hold so dear. None of the articles which you are fiery of losing are of any importance. They are transient luxeries designed to entertain the feeble human mind and to distract you from the more important things in life. By deliberatly cocooning yourself from the tedium of state sponsered and corporate sponsored entertainment, you can achieve social enlightement.
Finally, although this will occur as a natural consequence of spurning these electronic trinkets; get a life. Get a girlfriend, or boyfriend if that's what you like, and start to live life as though it is worth living and not solely for the accumulation of material wealth.
Follow this simple advice and you will soon be accepted into the pantheon of human beings and cease to be a slave, a victim of capitalist oppression.
Getting a backpack designed for a laptop can make it appear that you're not carrying a laptop at all, whereas a standard laptop case, while it might look similar to a tote bag, is usually pretty obvious.
:p
Failing that, get something like the Halliburton metal laptop case. If worse comes to worse, you can swing the thing at a mugger's head and do a lot of damage to his head without damaging the laptop inside. You know, clonk him and run. Besides, a guy carrying a metal case (briefcase type) is probably less likely to get mugged than a guy carrying a leather laptop case
Violent crime has been decreasing throughout the entire western world for decades. In fact, Texas is one of the only places in the western world where violent crime isn't decreasing. Interesting, no?
Performing the massively multiplayer thumb-war in public...
Maybe because no one in Canada owns anything worth stealing...
1) Your analysis is based on bad assumptions so your result is way off. 2) You're a sick bastard for fucking a horse.
I *just* had a couple guys snag my watch off me while walking home. Not with a weapon that I could see, but they grabbed it and were obviously going to fight for it. Then I get home and this is the top story on Slashdot... :rolls eyes:
Since so many people (myself included) are interested in the suggestion that this fella should carry a gun, I direct you to a more relevant forum: http://www.hs2000talk.com/ . This is my homepage, as I am one of those "crazy Americans with a gun", and I hate to see this guy's search for answers buried in yet another guns/no guns debate with offtopic discussion... Guns are not an option for him in London, so there doesn't need to be so much discussion on the right to bear arms here. But, if anyone is interested in taking it to another forum, try that one out, or if you want to actually have a one on one discussion on the matter, PM or email me. But come on kids, let's not drown out any valid responses to this guy's plea for help!
Oh boy, I can see it now, BBC News...
(Flick to reporter standing in rain.) (Cut to Press Conference. Caption: Chief Superintendant Ian Edwards.) (Cut back to studio.)the layman's guide to computer science
A mugger's going to judge based on what you're carrying, but also remember that he's going to avoid people that seem threatening. If you're weaving all over the sidewalk staring at the display of your (walkman | iPod | PDA), you basically look clueless, and are therefore a prime target.
Think of this example: Mr. T walked around with a bunch of valuable jewelry around his neck. How often do you think he got mugged? So, rule of thumb... Don't dress to attract attention, hide your electronic shit, and looked ticked off as you quickly move to where you're going.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
just shave and youll be fine
Taken from this site:
Advocates of gun-control advocates sometimes cite a 1995 study of concealed-carry policies by three researchers from the University of Maryland. The study looked at five urban areas and found that in four of them, the handgun homicide rate rose after a concealed-carry law had been enacted. But David McDowall, one of the authors, says that the small set of data limits the conclusions to be drawn from the study. He also states that there is no evidence permit holders commit crimes. The study is a classic illustration of how changing the parameters of a "before-and-after" analysis can change the results. For each city, McDowall and his colleagues averaged the yearly crime rates from 1973 until the year before the law went into effect, and compared that figure to the average rate of all subsequent years. If, instead, we compare the year before the law went into effect with the most recent year for which we have complete data (1994), then the homicide rate declined in three of the five cities.
Hi everybody, i'm the kung-fu knowing, knife and gun wielding MUGGER. I have the requisite number of piercings and a bad haircut. (To clarify the guy who owns this notebook isn't a mugger, he's a geek, i'm just using the computer that I took when I mugged him, now i'm working on moving into identity theft) ..
anyway I just had to write in and say thank you to everybody who's given such great advice, it's people like you who ensure i'll be going strong.
While i've never personally been mugged, I can tell you the sort of things that scare the crap out of me:
1. a remote controlled explosive device that could be placed inside the bag and detonated from a keychain.
2. iPod (or equivalent mp3 player) where the contents were nothing but people screaming in agony/being tortured, and then, at the very end of the recording a message saying "hey you, the guy who stole my mp3 player, don't sleep, because i'm criminally insane, and i'll be coming back to get my mp3 player - and we'll settle up then.). (it also helps if there's some bloody rags in the bag)
3. iPod or equivalent device that is simply lo-jacked and can be tracked by law enforcement officials.
4. a computer that contains (instead of your information) the credit card numbers and identity information for popular mob and/or high ranking federal law enforcement agents, which I might borrow.
5. poisoned twinkies, and/or other junk food. (I usually eat the food people keep in their bags). Randomly poison tempting pieces of food and/or drinks.
I personally think #5 is the best, because it would kill whoever mugged you and then the police will find my body, and call you to come pickup your stuff. Anyway.. This is the sort of stuff that keeps me up at night.
I don't mind telling you this stuff because like I said i'm planning on moving up to identity theft here real soon, and I can do that by simply swiping stuff out of your mailbox!
The UK murder rates are increasing, BTW (ever since that handgun ban in '97!).
The US murder rates are decreasing.
The guy asked for some numbers, and here they are.
in that case i suggest carrying around a loaded football fan with you at all times.
With heavy libertarian leanings, the average /.er may be more likely to use guns. Or maybe that just leads to the profound fascination.
-I am an elective eunuch.
Yes I admit we owe you for your support in WW2, especially as it was so timely!
The nice life the French have was bought and paid for with Russian blood and don't kid yourself. The USA lost 500,000 men in the entire war, both in the Pacific and Europe. Russia lost over 13 million against Germany alone.
Likewise the European powers lost over 2 million, not including civillians.
Furthermore, your economy only started to recover from its disasterous nosedive thanks to the start of the war and the corresponding increase in European military spending.
And, as for the level of safety felt by most Londoners. I have lived there all my life and visited New York, and the difference in atmosphere was negligible, both were equally safe in my view, the difference being that I know that the majority of people do not carry guns;
Fewer guns=lower probability of being shot
If you've got an old Sony Sports Walkman, you can "stealth mode" the iPod inside it. Kit is twenty bucks, and the premade case is a (waaaay overpriced, I admit it) cool hundred dollars.
www.retropod.com
Violent attacks usually start with a clothesline from behind -- you fall on your face, crushing your nose and breaking some teeth. Then you're in so much pain that you can't fight back. This goes for muggings, rapes, and good old-fashioned assaults. But if you can break your fall, you're in a much better position to defend yourself.
Laptop bag easily over the shoulder, thusly:
"He carried his satchel with an easy swaying motion so that he could get a good swing at anybody who tried to take it from him without asking."
So Long And Thanks For All The Fish, chap 4
Screw you all! I'm off to the pub
OK, so your hypothetical man on the street is completely ignorant. What is that supposed to prove?
I'd be interested to know how many times people really defend themselves with their guns (and what is the ratio against "gun accidents" for instance).
Average annual incidence of self-defense actions involving firearms, 1987-1992: 82,500 (USDOJ)
Annual accidental fatalities involving firearms, 1993: 1543
Unintentional firearms-related injuries, 1993: 21,385 (CDC)
The numbers stack up pretty well, I'd say. And that's not even taking into account that the incidence of firearm-related accidents has decreased dramatically in the last decade.
6' 3", 300lbs, bald, with a beard. Sometimes I get scared when I look into the mirror. And I don't have no stinking laptop, iPod, PDA or cell phone. The only thing the mugger will get from me is trouble. :-)
Hapkido is cool, BUT joint manipulation/pain compliance arts don't always work... especially on stoned crackheads or the double/triple jointed. If you are attacked, running & screaming are always a good idea! :)
You are alone in the world.
i live in canada, the only thing people will mug you here for is booze..i walk arond with my laptop, minidisc, digital cameras all the time i just usually keep it in a discreet backpack instead of those morons who use "laptop" bags.
mmmmm beeer....
yes but the probability game is best played in the specific case; namely, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me if there is a lower probability of getting shot in GB if I'm still in the P(get_shot) == true pile; I'd rather assure that my probability is as low as possible. [selfish American!]
Enter our beloved 4th Amendment.
That probability goes way down with handgun ownership.
This is true across America: communities where there are CCW laws have consistently lower crime rates.
PS: Once we saw the Zimmerman Memo, we were in. And there you go again... if we defer til we are certain, then we get snipped at by the Euros. If we step forward where we are concerned of a gathering threat, again(!), we get sniped at by the Euros. Just. Can't. Win.
A group of Budhists kicked my ass and took my laptop. Worse of all they ruined my My Little Pony limited edition backpack!
Don't worry so much about keeping your valuables safe. Keep yourself safe, keep your data safe, and protect your investment in those valuables.
Plenty of people have covered the "don't look like a target" angle. So let's address some other things you should do:
Find the local police's web site and read their advice on how to avoid getting mugged. Look at their crime statistics and figure out where the *truly* dangerous parts of town are (for mugging) as opposed to the places where you currently don't feel safe.
Get a laptop lock (if you don't have one already). Lock it to your desk at work, and to something immobile if you're at a hotel that doesn't have a safe in the room.
Prepare for the worst. No, that doesn't mean arming yourself with all sorts of weapons. You are not your laptop's bodyguard; you don't need to take a bullet (or knife wound or whatever) for it. You can't keep it on your person at all times. What if somebody steals it from your apartment, your luggage, your desk, etc.? (You don't take it with you to the bathroom do you?) What if it gets damaged in an accident? Are you going to use your pepper spray to help you rescue it from a burning building?
Get insurance (renter's or homeowners) and cover all your stuff. Do the math and set the deductible to a reasonable level like $250 or $500 so you're not paying a high premium just in case your iPod gets stolen. Write down the serial numbers of your equipment so that the police (and eBay, etc.) can be on the lookout for your stuff.
Do backups periodically. An external hard drive or CD/DVD burner isn't that expensive compared to how much it would cost to replace your data. Get in the habit of backing up your valuable stuff. Don't procrastinate backups until you have the ultimate automated backup solution in place; just set aside a time every week to do it manually if that's what it takes. Get in the habit of separating your vital data that needs frequent backups from your less important data (MP3s) that don't need to be backed up constantly. Theft and damage aren't the only risks to data - hard disks WILL crap out after a few years; it's just a matter of when, and carrying them around with you everywhere puts them at additional risk due to wear and tear, unstable temperature and humidity, not-necessarily-clean power, etc.
Use encryption where it makes sense. If somebody gets their hands on your laptop and has hours and hours to look through your files, is there anything on there that you need to protect? There probably is. The whole hard disk doesn't have to be encrypted but maybe a couple of folders do, or maybe your whole documents directory (the one that gets backed up most often and doesn't include huge files like music and movies and downloads). If you use a modern OS there is probably a really easy way to get an encrypted disk image or home directory set up that is mostly transparent when you use it.
Look into software that helps with stolen computer recovery. There are apps that will install in a very stealthy fashion that will phone home via modem or internet to the vendor. Report your laptop stolen and when it checks in, the vendor will figure out where the laptop is (via IP or phone lookup) and contact the police. There are things you can do (such as setting a BIOS password, and setting the boot order so that the hard disk boots before the CD) to make it really difficult to reinstall the OS on the computer so that these apps have a better chance of doing their job.
But it's almost unnecessary since muggings are nearly unheard of in florida anymore, since 90 percent of the populace can get a concealed carry permit and many CC regularly.
Ironically, the places with the most muggings are the places with the strictest anti-handgun laws. NY, DC, LA, Chicago, Detroit and with SF catching up fast. Oh, oh oh oh and I almost forgot one.... London.
"Shall issue" concealed carry laws are the BEST THING to happen to crime in this country within recent memory. The complete disarmament of law-abiding citizens in the UK is a terrible shame.
You neglected to mention which part of London you're spending your time in. It's a totally different ball game if you're in Hackney to when you're in Mayfair.
Seriously.
What can you do? Camouflaging your equipment isn't going to make the way you handle and treat those items any more inconspicuous.
And trying to fight them off will get you hurt or your equipment damaged.
You can only run, and the faster you are the better.
Either that, or stop carrying so much expensive shit around
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
take the headphones OFF and look around, meeting the eyes of people around you. Awareness is the key. A mugger wants an unaware victim and generally passes on someone who seems aware of them from the start. If the eye-to-eye contact is seen as a challenge you were likely to be a target anyways and now you at least have some warning...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Insurance and regular backups.
:wq
As an ex-military person, gun owner, concealed-carry permit holder, martial artist, and computer person
First, I would say that protecting your electronics is not a good reason for carrying a gun. Protecting your life when the electronics you carry puts your life at risk, is a good reason.
IANAL, but this is what I have learned from my gun courses.
The primary reason for carrying a firearm is almost always for self-defense, NOT defense of property. In many of the states in the US it is not acceptable to shoot someone simply because they are robbing you. In most instances there must be a threat of bodily harm and you must be unable to safely remove yourself, back away, or escape from the situation.
When a robber puts a gun/knife to your head and gives you instructions on how not to get hurt, the best solution is usually to comply. However, never "trust" a person who obviously doesn't care about your life. Just because you've handed over your goods does not guarantee that you won't get shot anyway. Escaping or using your firearm at the first opportunity are all viable options.
Regarding martial arts training -
My instructors have said that when defending your life, the primary goal is to neutralize the threat and/or remove yourself from the situation. Handing over material items to gain you that opportunity is totally acceptable.
Although I have trained for using Karate against an armed gun/knife opponent, the techniques are neither simple nor foolproof. One of our black-belts, although he disarmed his attacker and broke the guy's collarbone and wrist, still took a 22 slug in his thigh. To complicate the matter, the criminal later accused him of using excessive force!
That said, the best solution is to always avoid trouble.
The NRA recently opened up their Refuse To Be A Victim! seminars to men too. The seminars "provide participants with the information needed to minimize their chances of criminal attack." And no, they don't push guns as an easy solution. The seminar is inexpensive, and the web site offers some tips to minimize your chances of criminal attack. In London, I would seek out advice from local police stations, women's groups, colleges, and self defense instructors (ie. karate, etc) as to where similar education can be obtained.
And regarding the parent post
Oh my God, I'm mortified.
2nd Amendment. 2nd Amendment.
What with all of this privacy stuff lately in the news, I've got protection against unreasonable search and seizure on the brain.
Please forgive.
If one word could be used to describe Kenpo, it would be 'Overkill'. Kenpo is also known as the art of the Tiger. You wouldn't fuck with a tiger would you? I didn't think so. Kenpo is good for taking down multiple opponents fast *and* HARD . I am studying it myself. Next person to try and screw me over is going to have a broken knee and elbow as a minimum 'fee' for trying to assult me. The rest depends on what mood I'm in.
Summarizing everything above that made sense: 1. Be aware of your surroundings. Notice people and don't look down. Be streetsmart and try to travel along routes in the safer times of the day and night. 2. Don't use an identifying bag that screams "I've got a laptop." Hide your laptop in a plain vanilla, cheap military style backpack or shoulder bag. As far as your iPod, don't use it walking around or fiddle with the buttons on the tube or anywhere else someone can see you. 3. Consider changing the image you project to the world. It's a big city and sometimes the look you wear screams "Mug me harder." Consider the shabby clothes, boots, and short hair suggestion if you travel alone. Consider studying a practical martial art like the Filipino Martial Arts (Eskrima/Arnis/Kali) or Jeet Kune Do. Check out: http://www.jkdlondon.co.uk/ . 4. Try not to carry all of your best gear with you. Consider investing in a cheap laptop for utility purposes, a low-end MP3 player, or a CD player with your own mix, etc. to tote in the worst parts of town. Good luck!
Well, if you're all 'teched-up' to the max, perhaps you could get yourself a phaser, which would nicely compliment your iPod, laptop, 3G phone, et cetera - as a nifty hi-tech gadget, but also doubles as a self defence device! Can you imagine the police investigation?:
Yes officer, he was trying to steal my copy of advanced calculus... he says what? that I shot him with an alien ray-gun? Sure.... whatever!
Just buy two of everything.
I'm pretty sure this has all been said before, but I'll try to put it in one place. This is an issue I think about a fair bit, because I'm a computer science grad student and wannabe photographer. Which is to say that I have some stuff that's worth stealing, but am also broke enough that I'd really miss it.
1. Don't carry valuables in a way that makes them identifiable. For example, don't use computer bags, iPod cases, and whatnot. Get a protective sleeve for your laptop and toss it in an ordinary backpack. Stick your iPod (or, in my case, ancient Rio) in a pocket. A backpack crammed with expensive electronic toys looks the same as one full of books and old tin cans.
2. Don't act or look like a good victim. Carrying yourself properly is a whole discussion in itself, so I won't even really try to cover it.
3. Don't dress or act like you've got money. You should be above status symbols anyway, but if you're not, here's another incentive.
4. Remember that your data's probably worth more than your equipment. Always keep good backups, especially for mobile devices. If your data is sensitive, either keep in encrypted or don't put it on portable devices in the first place.
5. Get insurance. Find out what your homeowner's (or renter's) insurance covers, and fork over the extra for "scheduled item" coverage on your portable valuables. I do a lot of photography, and it's infinitely more relaxing to know that if something happens to my stuff, I don't have to worry. The extra cost is somewhere around a couple % of the insured value anually, and the peace of mind is worth it. Good policies even cover accidental loss and breakage, so you're protected from your own stupidity up to a point.
6. If someone *does* mug you, just give them the damned stuff. It's not worth getting hurt over. If you've done 4 and 5, it won't even be that big a deal. But even if you haven't, it's just stuff.
This will sound a bit nuts, but I went to school in the inner city. I used to get my butt kicked on a regular basis having to go through rough neighborhoods because of the color of my skin.
Then an old man in that neighborhood gave me some good advice:
"Run, never walk. If you're running they'll either be too slow to react to mess with you or they'll think you're running from the cops and don't want anything to do with you"
I tried it, it worked. The same thing is true of any other sketchy place in the world I've been.
It'll get your lazzy hump into shape quick. Not the most practical in dress shoes, but kept my butt from being black and blue.
Buy a gun. Learn how to use it. Shoot muggers in the face.
Get a permit to carry a concieled weapon, so when he jacks your stuff and begins to run, shoot the asshole in the back some need to be taken out of the genepool anyway :D
"And so the Trekkies were executed in the mannor most befitting virgins - thrown into volcanoes" - Futurama
I've used their camera ones extensively and they are sufficiently unconspicuous that i've never had a problem.
I'd like it a lot better if they didn't emblazon 'Pro' on the back - but you can pick that off quite easily.
I've backpacked in quite a few countries with thousands of dollars of camera gear and had no problems - in fact i've had my leather jacket stolen (got it back from a really dodgy guy i met) but they didn't touch my bag loaded with gear.
I always carry my backpack around. From work to home through the subway at uneven hours. I am always alone, and in my pack I got a my digital camera, my mp3 player, sometimes my laptop.
I live in Canada, so I am not allowed to carry weapons (anyways, a small knife is all I'd take if it was legal). But even if I never really felt treathened, I opted for a mace spray in my pockets.
I bought one for my girlfriend too, since she works weekend evenings downtown.
Mace is legal, light, conceilable, cheap and VERY potent. I've seen it at work and it's painful just to look at.
The only thing I fear now is muggers attacking me with mace spray. I seriously fear it more than a knife.
(I hope I just didn't tip some bad guys off here)
We should have been
So much more by now
Too dead inside
To even know the guilt
Good point, but are there any companies out there selling a lap-top case that "looks" like an ordinary school backpack? I don't know about you; but when I carry my laptop- my emphasis is not just on stealth to would-be theives. I am also concerned with safety of the equipment held within. A regular bag is not desinged to carry a laptop and will most likely not protect it in case of a sudden jarring or drop impact where even some cheaper cases designed to carry a laptop will.
This sounds like a potential market idea, so let it be known that here lies prior art. (So if you patent it and sell it, I will get royalties.. *joke please dont lynch!*)
....move along....nothing to see here....
Who knows what they really look like? At least out of the criminal types... I've had one for two years and it's drawn very little attention.
Airsoft pellets still hurt like hell. Your only in trouble if your attacker is actually armed...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
William S. Burroughs wrote about the way he survived the streets of Tangiers was to become invisible using a trick he learned from a Toledo mobster. I have been practicing this trick for twenty years and it works.
The way to do it is walk slow and make sure you see everyone before they see you. By doing this, you trigger a reflex in others to not see you. I can walk past anyone this way, even people I know who are looking for me. It's wierd how effective it is.
Also, with laptops, the bios is a good way to protect your stuff.
Most laptops bios p/w need to be factory reset. The best one being the IBM's that send a token from the bios to the hard drive. Even if the factory resets the motherboard p/w without getting ahold of you, because the thief is sophisticated enough to replace the chip (unlikely), the hard drive data is still encrypted and un-retrievable.
Finally, guns are for wimps.
If you pull a gun on someone you shouldn't be ready to use it, you use it!
BANG!
End of story... make it a clean kill.
If any moron pulled a gun on me, I'd kill 'em with it.
Like prophet said -- "learn to fight without the corruption of weapons."
1) Backup your data
2) Get Insurance
3) Profit!
Seriously, no matter how depraved the criminal, it comes off as equally as depraved to value your iPod more than a human life -- after all, isn't that what you're ostensibly defending against -- someone who values your iPod more than YOUR life? If it really was your life they were after, that's an even trade, but clearly, what they're after is your stuff, not your life, so taking a life in order to protect your gizmo is the same trade the criminal is making.
Get insurance, take reasonable precautions (like, maybe, don't carry around $6,500 in electro-goodies at 3:30AM in Brixton) and when someone tries to mug you, look at it as an upgrade opportunity. That's what insurance is for and it's cheaper than the lawyer it will take to keep you out of pound-me-in-the-ass-prison when the muggers family sues you for manslaughter.
At the end of the day there's a simple equation: carry around only what you are willing to lose either by accident or by force -- essentially, nothing worth more than you'd be comfortable carrying in your wallet. If it's insured, assume you're carrying your deductible, so $10,000 in stuff is like $500 in cash. When it comes down to $500 or a human life, you'd have to be an absolute barbarian to kill for it.
The comments here so far have concentrated on face-to-face encounters with muggers, but pickpockets are probably a bigger threat in London. If you pull out your wallet, gameboy, PDA, etc on the Tube, sooner or later someone will notice where you stashed it in your bag, get behind you on the escalator, and pilfer it. You will never know. Pickpockets are good at what they do, even some of the most streetwise Londoners I know have been pickpocketed.
Maybe you should get one of those belt chains that were fashionable for wallets a while back, and use them for your PDA and Ipod. Use some superglue and one of those things they use to secure computers to desks if there's no other way to attach it. It won't stop muggers (and if you're too flashy about the chains, it might attract them), but it will stop pickpockets and grab-and-run thieves, including those gypsies that come up to you when you're at a restaurant with some card that explains their sob story (which is just a distraction to pour the objects on the table into their bag).
Everyone I knew in London (myself included) has been a victim of crime there. Chances are, you'll eventually join their ranks.
what makes him or any one else with a firearm any different then a police officer that carries a firearm? Here in order to get a CC license you have to go through the exact same background checks as well as fire arm traning as the police do.
Did you intend to say "exact same firearm training", but understood that would be pushing it too far?
Here is a clue: even with the training that police officers get, the percentage of successful fire (i.e., in real situations) when done by them is about 2%.
Oh, the joy of geeks with CC permits firing at criminals in public locations...
Think of it another way...
The person threatening your life had already made the decision that the situation was worth a human life. Rarely are they ever intelligent enough to understand that life may be their own. Since they are OK with that outcome, help them along their karma path.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
My life is more important than a would-be criminal's.
What or who gave you the right to judge that your life is more important than anothers?
see, now its obvious youre talking out of your ass. the day Australia trumps the USA in crime stats will be the same one that duke nukem forever comes out
Except that in 1997, post Handgun ban, the total number of firearm murders was 59 with a further 628 attempted firearm murders.
Which leaves a probability of being shot and killed in the UK of 0.000000983 percent,
or a probability of being involved in a handgun attack at all of 0.00001145 percent.
Which in my book spells good odds.
The Zimmerman telegram was World War One, I was talking about World War Two.
Concerning deferment of entry into World War Two, Germany was a major industrial power that posed a threat to a number of democratic states who were not agressors and were allies of the USA. Iraq was never really a direct threat.
Which is not to say you were wrong to get involved. Your methods on the other hand leave a lot to be desired.
PA is shall-issue as well and in title 18, chapter 5 (concerning judicious use of deadly force) you'll see that you CANNOT use deadly force to protect moveable property...that means your iPod, laptop, et al.
Deadly force = you're in the process of being killed.
Deadly force != "give me your laptop, geek."
I'm sure Florida has similar laws regarding concealed carry. No offense, but "carry a gun to shoot the evil muggers" is NOT the kind of publicity we want. It's precisely the kind of attitude the anti-gun populace wants to take away that right.
Furthermore, why would you want to spend tens of thousands of dollars in attorney fees for when the mugger sues you for attempted murder or the family sues you for wrongful death? $50,000 plus 10 years in jail for a $900 Dell?
Educate yourself on concealed carry before you continue this nonsense. Geeks with guns are fine...but remember that you're a geek with a gun; not John Wayne.
For some reason this post reminded me of that bugs bunny episode where bugs and Elmer Fudd run backwards and forwards threatening each other with bigger and bigger guns until eventually bugs runs back in a wedding dress and they both get married.
So I think the moral to this story is if you want to deter someone from mugging you, the answer isn't a gun, but cross dressing.
I also have a serious point to the parent. Sure firing a gun in self defense is self defense. But then using a nuclear weapon is also a great way to end a war. But that doesn't make it right.
...might I suggest also carrying this little piece of technology?
That would be the 9 millimeter I presume...
Q.
Insert Signature Here
Don't go south of the river. Don't go outside zone 1. If you must go outside zone one, don't take more than you can sprint with
"The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
Then you must get technology enabled clothing. Check out www.scottevest.com.
I found this throug a friend of mine in the secret service. The best way to carry technology safely is to disguise the fact that you're carrying it.
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
-- Dan
The thread has turned into a primer on gun control - but lets stick with geek stuff.
5
First - the machine. A tip - if you have DSL or cable at home, DON'T bring it. Set up with GOTOMYPC or something of the ilk, and simply session into your home machine from where you are going. For some, this is not reasonable, they are going to sit in a cafe or what have you. But for many, consider using a remote session.
Music - there are wireless headsets like the ones you might see at http://www.gadgetcentral.com/wm-we01_intro.html
Wear them. Put the unit in a pants pocket or jacket pocket completely from view.
Take a look at the latest in color blackberries and others. I saw a guy who had what I thought was this unit:
http://www.pdagold.com/articles/detail.asp?a=15
He had a pull out, snap together chicklet keyboard - and the thing had 802.11b wireless and he had an adapter to direct the display to an overhead projector that was in the office. It was brilliant, he hopped on the wireless network and had a 800x600 display of a remote computer via WTS in moments - with stuff he carried in his jacket pocket.
I understand the situation about succesful fire and all. i just don't see were your weapon would be used against you.
I agree with some of the earylier posts that dont act or anticipate being a target. A couple of times when i had to walk threw downtown Antlanta i kept my head high and looked mean, which isnt hard. But doing that i never got mugged in the 20-30 times i did it, but a couple of times the guy behind me got it, which makes me laugh.
Aikido. Let's face it, you're a geek, so:
-you're out of shape.
-you've got carpal tunnel.
-you're scared of people bigger than you.
Aikido will take care of all of those.
[o]_O
My flatmate leant me his iPod heaphones for my Walkman, you insensitive clod!
Bastard...
and have mace and a knife on you.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Maybe you should read the entire thread before speaking ill of others.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
1) Surely, you can't possibly need *all* of those gadgets on you all of the time. When travelling, check your valuables into the hotel safe (when they're not in use).
;)
2) Come to Canada. Pretty safe/nice here
What about statistics on deaths by knives, shivs, and baseball bats?
h ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm
what about the statistics showing that while murders by firearm are down, overall crime is up?
or how about these articles that claim that gun crime is up 35%?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
Overall crime: 9.3%
Gun crime: 35%
Robbery: 14.5%
Domestic burglary: 7.9%
Drug offences: 12.3%
Sexual offences: 18.2%
( Source: Home Office )
those are pretty significant increases!
-- My Sig is a P228.
"I've switched my iPod headphones...."
There's nothing wrong in looking a little ratty while in a city. Wear old jeans, no watch or jewelry, a t-shirt, etc. Put the laptop in an old backpack, etc. No one need know you actually have money or possessions. I've heard too many stories about people getting killed for their car/rolex/diamonds and it just seems that looking pretty isn't worth one's life.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
Since you live in a country that has seen fit to disarm all potential victims and give criminals the benefit of a populace that's been rendered harmless, carrying a gun is right out.
However, carrying a gun is only one part of self-defense, and there are many others. Ideally, a gun backs them up, but in the less-than-ideal situation you're in, there's things you can still do.
What I would recommend is you immediately acquiring a copy of and reading Mossad Ayoob's book, The Truth About Self-Defense. It's an excellent comprehensive overview and guide on the subject. When it comes to specifics, it's more than a little bit dated, but the general stuff he goes into, like how to be observent, how to carry yourself, things to avoid, and so forth, are crucial to effective self-defense, even if you do carry a gun.
You could always use an old backpack, aloung with some Eggcrate padding for your laptop. You can get Eggcrate at your local thrift store / (Wal/K) Mart, or whatever you have in your area.
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
Never use a shoulder bag for your laptop...use a backpack that looks ordinary, yet has good inner pockets for the hardware. I keep my mp3 player in a pocket, and the only thing that's ever visible is two tiny in-ear headphones.
So far, it's worked.
Nothing works better to protect valulables than a well placed NRA Sticker on your laptop bag.
You don't need a weapon to defend yourself, just mask your nerdy odor with some salad dressing.
I did. In another post, you cite some random figures that still don't back up your case. They show:
1993 - 1997: violent crimes fall
1997 - 2002: violent crimes rise
And you say that because, in 1997, certain extra restrictions were put on handguns, the crime rates rose.
OK, well here's a crazy thought: maybe it was for some other reason? Why did crime rates fall between 1993 and 1997? Was it because gun ownership went up? No... so perhaps there's something else at work here. One leading theory tracks the figures better:
1991 - gulf war
1999 - kosovo
2001 - afghanistan
2003 - iraq
Violent crime falls in between the wars, and rises again in the period of two major conflicts (and continues to rise during the iraq war).
Not to mention that handgun ownership has never in recent history been widespread enough to have anything to do with the average person on the street being mugged.
On the other hand, you look like a 2@.
Definitely not a good idea. Stick with the knife, pepper spray, and brass knuckles...
If you live in a place with a neighborhood watch or block watch program for heaven's sake participate. Alert neighbors with telephones make wonderful outer perimeter security.
Being on good terms with the neighbors helps a lot during natural disasters too.
here's the paradox - legalising guns reduces crime for a little while, and then the crime grows back. Banning guns reduces crime for a little while, and then the crime grows back.
Criminals fill a niche in the social eco system. Change the environment and they adapt, either by learning how to easily steal plentiful legal guns or learning how to easily import/make illegal guns. The only solution is to keep altering the environment to keep them in check.
Liberalisation of gun laws followed by harsh crackdowns and buybacks, followed by liberalisation at random intervals. It kinda sucks to be you if you rely on guns as your sole form of self defence and have repeatedly spend a lot of money on a gun only to have it taken away again.
Maybe the solution is get a friend who is a security guard and go drinking with them. When you are really good friends, get them to charge you a nominal $1 to be your "bodyguard" every now and again. Then most jurisdictions around the world will allow your friend to carry a weapon with some nominal licencing fees which will make your friend very happy, and when you go out together you get to feel like a rock star and carry heaps of expensive gear without fear.
seriously. it not only will give you an advantage in a confrontation but it instills confidence in you that others can see, making you less of a target in the first place. muggers pray on the weak, not the walking can of whoop-ass.
The ultimate defense against getting mugged is being proficient in hand to hand combat carry whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want (electronics wise) if you get attacked, beat the hell out of him, break 9 or 10 bones, a few arms and or legs and walk away with a smile
The Phallus of Malice. Drunken College students at Wal-Mart dare not mess with him at 3 a.m. when he carries this. It's hilarious. They'll make a stupid comment, and he's free to mouth them off continuously because, well, he has a freakin baseball bat. It's a great equalizer.
That's right. All your base.
Randam figures? Or is that a euphamism for "facts that don't support my opinion?" Your "theory" is not a theory. It is an idea that so far has nothing to back it up but circumstance. Handgun ownership isn't a factor in being mugged, or other crimes? Why do the states with the least amount of gun control laws consistently have lower crime rates? In any case, you obviously are a /. troll who makes up theories and bashes facts to hide their own ignorance on any matters of policy.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
France
Idea: how about carrying your wallet in the front pocket and putting a nice big wad of Brie in the back pocket. The expression on the pickpocket's face: priceless.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
Nobody wants to steal a baby-blue or pink cute little bag full of shit.
I don't know anyone who would want to steal a bag full of shit no matter what the color of the bag is. And if your diaper bag is full of shit, I think you need some help with what goes on the baby's butt and what you carry around.
For as insightful as some of the replies are to other articles, the replies to a truly serious question such as this are nothing short of thoughtless. (sorry to those of you who have posted insightful tips, i couldn't get past most of the fluff before replying myself)
The key to protecting yourself/your belongings from theft is to minimize the reward for robbing you and maximize the time it will take to rob you.
To minimize the reward, conceal the bling:
1.) Keep the laptop in an unasthetic bag (nice tip, those of you that posted it).
2.) Buy less stylish earphones (read: walkman black) for that iPod when galabanting about town. Save the white ones for the NoWax party.
3.) Don't pull out multiple items in one location so as not to reveal everything you're holding.
4.) Consider leaving the house with less if this is an extreme concern for you.
Another tip for minimizing the reward is to align yourself with a more profitable target. That is, if you see a suit (or someone blinging more than you) on a train or walking down the street, walk near them and they'll become the more obvious target. This is the converse of the homely girl hanging with the truly ugly girl to make herself look pretty.
Additionally, make eye contact with people who glance at you, particularly those you think may be following you or likely candidates to take your stuff. Portraying a sense of situational awareness makes you much less of a target. Additionally, if a wouldbe thief thinks you'll remember his face, he probably will move on to another target very quickly.
When it comes to maximizing the time it takes to rob you, the key is to make the would be thief think it's going to be harder to rob you instead of someone else. Even the dumbest of muggers (read crack heads and tweakers) know that a target with $500 of stuff you can gaffle in 10 seconds is worth more than the $2000 target that will take a minute.
So the obvious thing here is to stay on the beaten path in plain sight of the crowd. The less obvious things are:
1.) Keep safety pins on your bag's zippers to serve as locks, *not* the mini luggage padlocks. Safety pins are as strong as a luggage lock but don't draw attention to the contents of the bag. This is most useful to deter pick pockets but could prevent the mugger who just goes for the contents of your bag rather than the bag itself.
2.) Wear your laptop bag diagonally across your chest. This originated to prevent purse snatchers but is just as applicable to a long-strapped laptop bag.
3.) Keep your iPod in your pocket. God knows what you keep in there (a knife?) and if the thief ever notices you struggling to access it, he's likely to think you'll have the same trouble when he robs you.
Under no circumstances should anyone watching this thread ever think that carrying a firearm or other weapon is a proper solution to being mugged. The best training I've ever received was during a tactical shooting course. A student asked the best way to draw a weapon on a mugger who also was wielding a weapon and the instructor proceeded to demonstrate how to empty your pockets as quickly as possible then run the hell a way. Drawing down on an assailent with any sort of weapon is likely to result in your assailant having another weapon at their disposal *or* escalate the threat to an actual attack.
In fact, pepper spray is a bad idea unless you've been properly trained, and typically should only be used in a truly life threatening situation. Why? Because the risk of screwing up it's usage is huge, and the only time you want to attack an attacker is when your only option is to fight back or risk physical harm.
BTW - for those of you pinheads arguing about whether you should shoot to wound or shoot to kill, I'd recommed two things:
1.)Please exercise the right afforded to you by the second ammendment and by no means ever own a firearm. You're going to get yourself or someone else killed.
2.) Review the self defens
Seriously, i live/walk through sketchy areas in San Francisco...crackheads everywhere. Crackheads and thieves do not like to fuck with wierd people...they dont like the unknown, it's a serious risk, especially when there are soo many normal looking people that are easy to predict.
:)
I originally started carrying a mini hello kitty doll in my side pocket for amusement purposes (i am a freak, but otherwise normal-looking). I noticed that 1) less people asked me for change 2) noone followed me 3) and random crackheads didnt try to sell me envelopes, streetsheets, or other silly items 4) if i wanted to i could pick up girls more easily, it's the whole 'he must be gay thing'
looking a little wierd goes a long way.
All your preview button are belong to hello kitty.
If everybody always suggests using a backpack to hold your laptop in, don't you think muggers will have wised up by now?
As a man who's carried a diaper bag before, I would think it highly odd that a person would carry such a bag without a small child nearby. Presumably a mugger, along with the rest of society, would find it unusual also. But if you think it'll deter muggers, go ahead. For extra effect, peek inside the bag every once in a while and say, "Don't worry, honey, it'll just be a bit longer and I can let you out", that would deter a mugger.
>All of this is pure bullshit.
Researchers have shown videos of people walking on the street to imprisoned muggers. The researchers asked each mugger which pedestrian he would pick as a target.
The muggers's answers were almost perfectly correlated. Like any predator they begin by sizing up their target. Like any businessman they want transactions to go smoothly. They will target people who are unaware of their surroundings and likely to freeze like a deer in the headlights.
TWO MAJOR RULES
1. Try to avoid the fringes of populated areas. The middle of a crowd is full of witnesses and obstacles. The deserted area far outside a crowd doesn't have enough targets. Muggers will cluster in that in-between zone.
2. If you get an irrational feeling of danger, for no perceptible or logical reason, ACT ON IT. Your mind does tons of processing outside your conscious awareness. Don't stay in a situation because you "know" it's OK if your instincts tell you otherwise.
Over and over, victims of violent crime report that they felt uneasy or had a hunch something was wrong before they were attacked. Those feelings come from a security mechanism with hundreds of millions of years of R&D behind it. Honor that mechanism.
If you're out with a significant other, make a deal ahead of time that if either of you whispers "we need to leave here *now*" you'll zip out with no discussion.
Remove the tape from the middle of your glasses.
My
Limekiller
A real geek would use all those toys in his mom's basement drinking Code Red, with vi running on Fedora, and StarTrek playing on the little TV in the corner.
If your out on the streets... your not a geek, your one of them.
.. you discover that you're a fat, balding computer geek who get's out of breath when climbing the stairs! The mind might be willing but the body sure as hell won't! :-)
and a concealed carry permit.
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
- Move to a safer neighbourhood
- Don't carry all my stuff around with me
Just a thought"That's not a catagory"
"My mistake. I'll take balloons for 300 if you please!"
That's right. All your base.
So geeks are always white?
It's not just the geeks that carry the high priced gadgets these days, it's everyone! Keep your toys as hidden as possible. Anyone with a cellphone, ipod, pda and pager hanging off their belt deserves to get robbed and beaten for being so gay. People live in so much fear these days, sad really. If something is going to happen, its going to happen regardless of how prepared you may be.
I consider the fatal shooting of criminals to be a public service.
If you pull a gun out, you had better be using it to kill. Not only are you putting yourself, and everyone else around in GREATER danger when you pull the gun (what if he takes it), but "shooting to wound" will land you in a heap more trouble than just killing the person.
Also, in my state in particular (Texas), if you have a concealed carry license - multiple shots are VERY MUCH looked down upon. You shoot to kill on the first shot, period.
Guns are nothing to be lax with or about. Pulling a gun will automatically trigger the attacker's fight-or-flight, and if you don't seriously wound or kill them you may end up on the wrong end of that barrel.
You do not shoot them three, or four times in the chest "because it didn't stop them". You shoot them once through the heart and be done with it. There's a reason that our CCL requires the holder to be certified on a particular type of gun, as well as using the SAME gun during training that they wish to carry with the license. It's required accuracy so that shoot to kill does it the first time. doing otherwise is dangerous and ignorant.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
Just get insurance for the items you carry. doesn't cost that much. That way if you do get mugged, you can just hand the goods over knowing they will be replaced, (ok, maybe not the data, but do backups, etc). And as for all the people saying carry a gun? Oh yeah, lets make a bad situation worse why don't we? Lets make a simple theft into a homicide... I will never live in a country that gives out permits for carrying a hidden weapon.
Do you need one of those if you don't shower and stink enough to vaporize anyone in a 10' radius?
Nobody wants to steal a baby-blue or pink cute little bag full of shit.
Maybe it's just me, but I always throw away the dirty diapers.
I actually got mine at Target for $30.
It's an "Eastpak" grey canvas backpack that looks, on the outside, like any other generic backpack that'd otherwise just have schoolbooks and the like in it. But on the inside, there's a reinforced and padded sleeve for a laptop to be fastened into. It's served me well, both with and without the iBook inside, for almost four years now.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
Are you sure it's not the BO they're avoiding?
;)
this may sound weird, but getting out and lifting weights may be a good idea, you'll look and feal built, which will also help with confidence, even if its just 20 minutes a day you'll notice an improvement
He can't get a concealed carry permit. He can't legally even get a gun. The only people who can have guns there are the criminals. Not legally of course, but London is the shining example of the folly of gun control.
.40 cal round. Nothing bites more than having to riddle your attacker with 9mm or .380 shells when a double-tap of .40 cal will do the job. I just don't like the grip angle of the glocks. They're designed for European shooters who prefer the awkward low-angle grips. I'd go with a Kahr PM 4043a, myself.
Good choice though. The 27 is easily concealed and fires a powerful
You Americans are gun crazy. Bowling for Columbine (despite it's many flaws) should be required watching for all you nuts. You did it in the arms race and you do it now...
Simply getting a bigger weapon then your aggressor is not a solution, as your attacker will then follow suit. You may have a handgun in your purse, but your muggers will all be carrying automatics.
Crazy...
I would reccomend carrying a self defense too of sorts, but the vast majority are now illegal in the UK. My best advise for a defense tool for you is a heavey metal flashlight, such as a Maglite, which can be used as a club or a fistload impact weapon. Another possibility is a very high-power flashlight such as an Arc Flashlight, which has a candlepower in excess of 33 Lumens. This is bright enough to blind a person momentarliy allowing time for escape. Also, don't use those iPod headphones, it's like wearing a big, flashing, "MUG ME" sign. Here's some more Self Defense issue with the restrictive british weapon laws in mind. A guide to Self Defense in the UK, Defending Yourself in Britain, A Guide to Expedient Weapons,
Most people only seem to consider two options- 1) Blow muggers head off 2) Give them your cash
Heres my advice.
The first thing to do when walking in bad areas late at night is to strut. Get yourself into the frame of mind of "I'm a sex God", and try and act like it. If you can pull it off, most men will become subservient to you. (... and woman will see this and find you attractive, regardless of how ugly you are).
This works because you are essentially conveying the message that you are an Alpha Male, and has a huge low level psychological effect on other men. You can't fake this (as it relies on many subtle things like pheremones), but if you can get yourself into the right frame of mind it works. (Not to mention woman will start to chat YOU up)
Chances are, most slashdot geeks have been on the receiving end of it, so you know how it affects you physically and psychologically . (In my case it helps that I'm 6'5 and work out at the gym).
As a plan B, I carry a fake wallet around with about $10 in it and some old expired credit cards etc. Since I carry nothing else of value on me (Except my Nokia 3315, which is only worth $AU99), I can just throw the wallet a few metres away (to distract them) and run. Both partys win.
Lemme see if I've got this right.
You are more offended at the idea that the parent assumed that most geeks were white than you are at the idea that by darkening one's skin, one would be less likely to be a victim?
Bizarro.
Maybe this'll help you sleep at night: the short answer to your question is, "yes, the vast majority geeks are Caucasian (which includes Indians) or Asian; there are very few black geeks (relatively speaking)." There are also very few female geeks (relatively speaking) but you don't hear the girls crying every time someone refers to some imagined (geeks == male) tautology.
There you are, staring at me again.
True, your life is worth more than the crap you have, but maybe--just maybe the long term solution is to raise the bar.
Get trained in self-defence. Lots of it.
Get Knife. Get Trained With that!
And finally, Move to a fucking country where you aren't scared to walk around *ever*.
I mean, holy christ, are you really that scared? Maybe you live in the largest shithole city that in on the planet, and maybe you don't. You live your life in fear, and that ain't healthy.
Either fix the fear by training yourself to overcome your (possible) attackers,
== or ==
Move somewhere where that ain't a problem. I got one word : Canada.
Sure, there's crime here, but I've never, ever felt scared walking through any area of any City I've ever been in here.
I've sure felt scared in US cities, but never here.
But then, Canadians tend not to be afraid of one another.
Feh.
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
Then there was my friend who had his car broken into in Toronto, so the thieves could steal... a bunch of diapers that were sitting in the back seat.
I constantly look everywhere while I walk. I started doing this when I realized I get really bored. Keeps my occupied. The sneakiness is really funny too. I see everyone before they see me. I've walked past someone who was "in" the door of an elevator, pushed my button, they turned around, saw me, and nearly had a heart attack. They said "Where the fuck did you come from!"
What's weird is that I can't really sneak up on someone when I want too... It only happens when I'm not actively trying.
That's right. All your base.
I am a touring musician and have written this bullet-point list of tips and tricks for laptop musicians for avoiding getting pick-pocketed:
- colored backpacks = tourist or student
this was a surprise to me but a policeman at the police station near where I was mugged said that backpacks with any sort of color on them are most prone to being pick-pocketed or stolen for some reason...the only conjecture he made was that it is mostly tourists who carry backpacks and the buyer usually chooses a colored bag so their luggage is distinctive when picking it out of a group of similar luggage (i.e., the baggage carousel at all airports)...so I sold the backpack I have (it had an orange outer shell on it) and purchased one which is pure black...more on my new backpack later...
- NEVER wear a what's called a 'fanny-pack'
these are packs that you wear around the waist like a belt that can hold wallets and credit cards and money...they were originally marketed to bicyclists but became popular with tourists as well...this is target #1 for pickpockets...fanny-packs = credit cards and money...don't wear them and if you own one throw it away unless you use it while bicycling...they're useless...
- ALWAYS file a police report
when your credit cards are stolen the thief knows full well that they have a limited amount of time to use it before the owner discovers it is missing and calls the card companies to cancel the accounts...in this period of time they usually rush into a jewelry store and buy an expensive piece of jewelry - but not too expensive where it gives them away...usually a couple of thousand Euro...and they will do this in a couple of stores until the card gets turned down...they then have purchased a booty which they then fence for cash...so it's a good bet that your card will show a purchase no matter how quick you are in reporting the card(s) stolen...an official police report will be needed to dispute any illicit charges made to your card(s)...I know it's painful to sit in a police station for hours and be treated like a criminal but it is absolutely worth it in the end...it is difficult to dispute illicit charges with most credit card companies without a police report...get one, don't even think about it...
- distribute your valuables
this means: don't put all your money and credit cards in one place (like your wallet) but spread them out in various hiding places (more on this later)...for example: cash, credit cards and passport should be kept in separate places in your backpack or on your person...also, hotel's have safes in the room which are free...keep valuables in different places since PP's usually operate in one quick move which means they get one chance to get at the goods and flee...
- money belts, neck wallets and shoulder wallets
personally I hate neck wallets...the string cuts into my neck and usually I have too much stuff to carry to keep it all in a single pouch around my neck...a passport, plane tickets, cash, credit cards, drivers license, etc. all start to weigh a lot when wearing them around your neck all day...and money belts are a pain to get to when your fumbling for money while buying a train ticket or need to present your passport in a hurry...I did some searching and I found a 'shoulder wallet' which fits like a gun holster...all your valuables are located just under your left pectoral/breast and are easily gotten to...I typically wear a T-shirt under a denim shirt so I wear the shoulder wallet over my T and under the denim shirt...when I need to get to money or passport I just reach into my shirt and grab it from a Velcro pouch under my left arm...the downside to wearing a money belt or waist wallet is that they can be pick-pocketed by experts...they just cut the back of your belt, distract you and pick up the fallen money belt...volia! a neck wallet is good but gets heavy after a while and is awkward to get to when carrying luggage since you need two hands to manipulate it...a shoulder wallet is good because you c
Along with the use a regular backpack with a sleeve and change your iPod headphones to something non-white, use common sense. You can use your iPod when walking, just don't be an idiot and walk with it in your hand out in the open. Make a playlist and keep it put away. Everytime I see someone on the street (once a day) I think about a linebacker coming around the corner and slapping it out of the persons hand and running away with it. In most places its less about being mugged, and more about having something straight up snatched right from you.
Pick one. Walk confident. No one wants to mess with someone that will kick their ass. Acting a little crazy will help.
Remember, predators always seek easy prey. Don't be target.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
So you should therefore keep your laptop in a clear plastic bag?
I found that wearing a dirty shrunken wool jacket I got from goodwill, carrying extra bags, and yelling at people that wearen't there was a great way to avoid getting mugged.
I found that dressing like a biker scumbag, getting some tatoos, growing a goatee and copping an attitude was a great way to avoid being mugged because most people won't mess around with a biker.... except other bikers. Then the real bikers started picking on me and beat me up just because they thought it was fun to do. However, they didn't mug me.
And how is what he doing different from what you are doing. I read the thread too, I didn't see anything to back up your statements. Can you reference research papers? scientific studies? are the independent? If not, then you are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing. Theres a word for people like you. Starts with a H.
Get pepper spray. You don't kill anyone and it's a LOT cheaper.
;)
The worst for me is when I go into CompUSA and they try to demand searching my bags. I have a $2500 laptop... a $400 cam and a $300 PDA in there. I wonder if they will ever think I stole them
Carry it all in a safe. You'll get a good workout every time you leave the house, too.
Sigs are like bumper stickers.
Self defence classes? Ya think? I'd recommend Aikido, followed by Judo. Once you've gotten reasonably proficient in either of those two, you might consider more advanced styles. Avoid Karate, Kung Fu, etc. They all have very rigid styles which are often impractical in the street. I'd recommend either Jeet Kun Do (this is the Bruce Lee school, and takes many years to master), or Kali (fillipino street style, emphasis on using sticks to deliver blows - you can buy collapsing batons that fit in your pocket, and extend with a flick of the wrist).
Or, you could move to a country that isn't frought with violence and crime. Like America.
Lets just say that a lot of steel gets made in my town by some companies, one of which isn't particularly economically stable right now.
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
In most cases, being a cop killer means the police are more likely to wack you and get away with it. You simply do NOT kill a cop.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
The 2nd amendment was not written to protect citizens from each other. It was written to protect the citizens from their own government should it go awry. :P
They did this because of their experiences with the British government before they had to kick their ass to get their "freedom".
What the hell happened?!
Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?
Carry a can of pepper spray and/or a knife - it's mostly useful for scaring (potential) attackers.
for example use a 'Touchscreen BoomboxPC', there was an article about that on the frontpage for god's sake:
1 0&mode=thread&tid=137
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/30/14142
New things are always on the horizon
I lived in El Salvador for a few years, and down there many men carry machetes. It is a good deterrent against your average gang member or theif, but if some one else with a machete comes up to fight with you, you need to run (unless you have experience fighting). I think if I were going back again, I would learn to use a Katana and walk around with one of those. Then I wouldn't even have to be afraid of guns (think Spike vs. Vicious). Then if I get some sort of Elvish cape.....people would run in terror.
Qxe4
Basically, act like one of those hallucinogenic frogs that every creature in the jungle knows better than to touch. The only trouble I've ever had was with truly insane vagrants, but you can always see them coming, and avoid them. Which is the whole point.
===--====
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
dockers makes those tech pants with lots of hidden pockets. keep your cell and PDA in those pockets and keep your laptop in a bag that doesn't look like a computer bag. they make special backpacks that protect laptops and have room for more stuff.
Our society is WAY too tolerant of bad guys. We are taught to lay down everything in the face of thugs for insurance purposes. Just think if more people on th 9/11 flights were willing to fight instead of laying down like lambs to the slaughter.
The fact that people are EASY to rob encourages more people to become robbers. When robbers expect to be beat up half the time, they'll stop robbing.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Then kick out his knees while he's making the catch.
Bettter yet, carry a dummy wallet with old credit cards so you don't have to worry about losing the "real" one.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
There isn't a damn thing I own worth being shot or stabbed over.
How about your self respect? While I concur that none of my material possessions are worth my life, my self respect is more than worth my life. It's worth any mugger's life as well. I have a gun permit and thankfully I have not had to use any of my guns for self defense, I would not hesitate to do so if my life were in danger.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
The question posted would be a lot less interesting if it couldn't be generalized to other places than London.
You walked into this seeing an argument that you thought you could win and make you feel like a great big powerful man. Don't be such a confrontationalist. And don't try to make this to an argument that you either win or loose. Discuss it and gain respect _and_ make friends.
Now, you will read this and get upset. And you'll be wanting my head on a platter.
Fight that.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Bring him along all the time, buy him plane tickets if necessary. But the important part is to make him EXTREMELY GEEKY. Thick glasses, pocket protectors, haircut. Let him wear the white headphones, the fake laptop and the fake PDA and the fake iPOD. The mugger magnet manifest.
You OTOH should look like one of them uber male models that have that faraway look like you're walking down the ramp all the time, sporting the latest close-to-body-holsters that carry the concealed REAL laptop, REAL PDA, and iPOD...
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
Well done. No one wants to mess with a crazy person. Bark like a dog. Meow like a kitten. Do ANYTHING the Mel Gibson does!!!! You'll scare them.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Maybe the AC is a black female?
Here's something from your link :
Criminologists believe that a note of caution needs to be introduced into analysis of the data, because of the different ways in which UN member countries record crimes.
So FWIW, this study is not worth much.
I carry a Panasonic Toughbook (CF-M34). I carry it out in the open, clenching it tightly, strap around my hand. I'm practically _begging_ for the day when some punk comes up to me and tries to steal it -- I can't wait to just swing it around and knock the fucker out. Wouldn't hurt it at all. They certainly can't be expecting that from a laptop.
This isn't just simple theft. I wouldn't ever get the urge to, for example, shoot an embezzeling employee, or thieving roommate (though this may be different for others as the issue of violation of trust comes into play) or a shoplifter. Someone who has the nerve to rob someone in person seems a lot more boldly criminal. There's also the greater scale, the fact that they're also costing you personnal data, they should be able to forsee this risk, and they just might be willing to kill you for disobeying them.
those are pretty significant increases!
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Stop spreading facts around like that, you'll damage the anti-gun rhetoric.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
Are you serious? You would say that in the situation where a criminal has made the decision that it is acceptable to take my personal belongings and at the least threaten me, if not harm or kill me, I don't have the moral right to say "This man is willing to shed blood for this crime, it might as well be his"?
Any person that has bought into the moral code that just taking something from someone by force is an acceptable means of getting something is expendable. That is the moral code of thieves, rapists, and murderers. Are you telling me that they have a greater right to live and act than I do?
We live in a world where the thug threatening your life has two options, tell the truth or lie. he may really want your Ipod, or he may really want to mutilate and kill/rape you once he is sure that he/she can get away with it. "Just hand it over" is a good way to be sure that there is no way to save your own life if the thug happens to be lying to you and wants to have a little fun after the score.
Rule of thumb, you didnt bring it down to a life or death situation and it is appropriate to turn the tables and offer the thug his/her life in exchange for surrender/incarceracion.
Your pack will make an EXCELLENT shield in case of a knife attack
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Likewise, a compromise on the put-your-laptop-in-a-battered-backpack, would be to put your laptop in a smart, black, backpack. I have a special backpack designed for laptops, with a padded section to put the laptop into, but from the outside it doesn't scream "I have a laptop in me, mug me!". I originally got it because I was sick of the weight of lugging a laptop bag, and I found those wheely ones required me to have three hands whenever I was travelling, but I've found the side-effect of it looking like an ordinary backpack has made me more at ease when travelling overseas with my laptop. And if your work hassles you, saying that a backpack is "unprofessional", then start muttering about ergonomics, RSI and backaches and they should back off (grin). And it's amazing how much more "professional" something can look simply because it's black.
Likewise, ditch any bags or cases that say "I am a cell phone case" and so on. When I was holidaying in New Zealand recently, I carried my digital camera in my ConDiego ID bag, because it was just big enough to put the camera in, zipped up nicely, and didn't look anything like a camera case (it hung around my neck, which was also convenient). Having a coat with lots of pockets may be sufficient for small things like cell phones or PDAs.
-=- Say it with flowers. Send a Triffid. -=-
but the reason that he has the right to take the criminal's life to save his is because the criminal initiated the use of force.
There is a really nice keychain defense tool. Basially, it is a pointed cylinder with two prods coming out of the side. You can bob with the end or poke with the point. Or you can slash with your keys that hang off the end.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Keep a dummy wallet in the "obvious" place with old credit cards and a few bucks. Keep the "real" wallet safely hidden.
If someone asks, give them your dummy.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Mod this post up. Criminologists are notorious for using dissimilar methods to measure crime. Saying that country A has less crime than country B assumes that people are taking the measurement in the same way. 99% of the time they are not.
I have a friend that is an obscenely productive martial artist. anything happens i think i can coundt on his revenge. Also he taught me to use nunchaku and a katana. I'll still prolly give em the goods if mugged, but if necessary ill give em one for.
When I'm leaving the office, and I know I'm stopping at a store on the way home, I put my gear in the trunk. I know, it's a very specific situation (you *have* an office, *and* a car trunk...), but still...
@sshatrack
Policeman dying in the US may be a common occurance, when one considers the vast SIZE of the US, but when you view individual areas of the US, you get a whole different story.
The area where I live is not a bustling population center, but it has a fairly large population, and as such, a fairly large police population. In the past, I'd say, six or eight years, five officers have been killed in the line of duty. Two were gunned down while serving a warrant on a drug lab and three shot to death while investigating a car that turned out to have been involved in a robbery.
Not only did these killings make the front page of all the papers, and become the primary stories on the evening news, but they STAYED front page/top story material for about three days, and even after were not far from the spotlight as the killers were found and brought into custody. The community mourned the loss, and even helped to search for the suspects, helped to provide money to one of the widows, etc.
Similarly (sp?), in the same six or eight years, there have been, all told, perhaps 10 homicides, and only about 12 very violent assaults. Violent crime simply does not occur with all that frequency. I live less than three hours drive from several major East Coast cities, and there's plenty of traffic from all of them through my area, so it's not as though we're isolated here, and free from criminal activity; drugs, theft and vandalism are big problems, particularly drugs, as the location makes the area a crossroads for transporting things all through the area.
When taken as a whole, yes, the United States is rife with violent crime, but when considered per capita, I highly doubt that it's as severe a problem as you seem to think.
at least for now...
i have martial arts training for about a decade, and usually work out along with my dad and his colleagues (subordinates, etc) in the military... also been to the worst parts of the jungle (when i was a kid, i usually spend my summer with my dad "in-training")...
also, ive been through a couple of muggers myself - and except for some knife wounds (if someone has a knife, the possibility you get wounded is about 99% - what you see in the movies are just that = movies), i manage to survive them... and to get those muggers to jail in the process...
also, my sister works for the police force specializing in the underground - and she has been in a lot worst that i have...
it is just that most of us right now havent been through hell that in the first sign of trouble, the go into shock and wouldnt know what to do...
Again... No, you are NOT using it to kill. You are NOT making a conscious effort NOT to kill, however. If that's what it takes, so be it, but you are NOT shooting to kill. The reason multiple shots are looked down upon in Texas (And everywhere else) is that in court, if you put 8 rounds into someone, you are going to appear to the jury that you most certainly meant to kill them. If you tell the jury "Yeah, I meant to kill him" you are going to be found guilty of murder or somesuch. I did NOT say to shoot to wound. HOWEVER, if you shoot an assailant, it hits him in his pelvis, shatters it, and he falls to the ground, he's no longer a threat, and you can NOT (legally) continue to shoot him. Shooting to NEUTRALIZE THE THREAT is almost always going to be a fatal shot, because in QUICKLY incapacitating an assailant, you are in effect neutralizing them. My point is that your OVERALL GOAL is not to kill anone, it is to neutralize what you believe to be a reasonable threat on your life. Again, tell ANY jury, lawyer, judge, or police officer that you were "shooting to kill", and you will go to jail, and your CCW will be revoked. I myself practice failure drills when I'm at the range. Two to the chest, and if the head is still where it was initially, one to the head. I know that if seeing the gun doesn't stop them, having it pointed at them doesn't stop them, having a round impact your chest doesn't stop them, having two rounds in their chest doesn't stop them, then I am going to have to resort to undoubtedly lethal force. It is a last resort when everything else has failed. I am not being lax about guns. I am reiterating what your intentions SHOULD be, in order to keep you from doing something stupid (kill someone who is no longer a threat) or from being charged and convicted of murder because you decided to tell everyone that your intentions were to kill someone. If your CCL instructor ever said "quick kill", "shoot to kill", or something similar, and anyone in charge of anything heard him, you can bet your ass he'd be fired, even in my favorite state of Texas. Shooting to wound or maim is most certainly dangerous. But shooting specifically to kill is illegal, and to many people immortal. You shoot to stop the threat. All I am saying is that as soon as there is no more threat, YOU STOP SHOOTING. And so do I. If you shoot your bad guy twice in the chest and he's on the ground, and then you go shoot him in the heart to make sure he's dead, any jury will say that you just murdered a man in cold blood. Shoot to live. If that requires killing someone, so be it, but if you shoot to KILL, you have the wrong frame of mind to be carrying a firearm. (Again, after having had one of these guys call me a left-wing gun grabber or some such, let me reiterate that I do have a CCW, I open carry an XD40, and I've fairly closely followed Virginia law and pertinent self defense cases all over the U.S. I'm not trying to grab anyone's guns. And I vote Bush, despite him saying he wouldn't veto the AWB if it made it to him.)
The chances of being mugged in London by someone with a gun are very remote. I'd say you weren't likely to be mugged with a firearm involved unless you had a lot of drugs.
... any more than 5 cars is a traffic jam in Dunedin. Plus I don't need to worry about salary because my pay is so amusingly low. (I'm a software engineer) But it does cover a nice house and all the rest so what the hec!
My top tip for protecting your laptop on the tube always sit / stand with your leg going through the shoulder strap of the bag. (Obviously don't use the laptop on the train) A snatch and grab attempt is the most likely and this will foil that.
That's what I did when I lived in London. If somemone had pulled a knife on me I would have gone for the eyes, throat and genitals. One time when I really felt threatened I kept the power adapater for my Archos in my hand as it has quite a weight to back up the 3 pronged plugs with.
Thank God I don't live in London anymore. Now I live in NZ....I understand that until recently NZ had a higher gun ownership rate than the US.....but its real hard to get a pistol. There's no real trouble down here in NZ, especially in the South Island no one gets mugged. A lot of people don't bother locking their doors. I came to NZ straight from London and when I went tramping used to check my laptop into the bank for them to store in their vault. They always found this very funny. I used to be worried about the security of their vaults. (Staff would give me my laptop back because they recognised me - without asking for any ID....I'd have to wait while someone got the bag out with no physical barrier between me and the vault and no evident security).
Now I never worry about being mugged or anything like that. Also it only ever takes 10 minutes to get to work
Cheers
Stewart
(Never lend anyone your Boat, Gun or Chainsaw)
The law should incourage the VICTIM removing the mugger from the street. If he happens to be removed completely from the earth
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
hmm.. interesting....
from the article:
"Only the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and Finland
have higher crime rates than England and Wales."
and now from the U.S. Department of State Bureau of Consular Affairs web page:
"Although the crime rate in Finland is low compared to the U.S. and most European countries, it has increased in recent years. However, Finland remains a relatively safe environment. "
" Street crimes, such as muggings and pickpocketing, remain relatively uncommon, but do occur. "
New Yorks finest also gunned down a completely unarmed man in the foyer of his apartment building. Is THIS a crime deterent.
There is no excuse for sodomizing a detainee. A little rough stuff is probably in order if they get out of control. Otherwise, a man in custody is a man out of "play".
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Seriously, put your white headphones back on, and start walking with your head up and confidence. It's not the fact that you carry money around your neck and in your pocket all day, I think that it is you have a victim mentality. You could get run over by a car tommorow; but you're not asking for tips to avoid being run over. If you are really worried, by some insurance for your stuff.. but really what you need is a shift in how you feel about yourself and your security. Most of the world does not get mugged every day. If you freak out over Terror Alert Codes, and are twitchy because you are affraid you will get mugged.... well then you have greater issues to deal with. Seriously, if you can find a way to just walk down the street with all your gear, and not worry about the day to day things you cannot control.. You may just find a bliss otherwise ignored.
John Walsh once found me while looking for some other kid. He was not amused.
"R&D".
Hmm, so that is the new politically correct word for evolution in case of possible surrounding by religious fanaticists?
What's a self respecting geek doing out of the house anyway?
but it'd be the cops doing the mugging.
They're perfect. You can easily defeat a person weilding a knife.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Back before anything carried on your person could make you a suspected terrorist, I had a few different implements that saved my ass more than once. My favorite was the cattle prod I kept in my car, and occasionally under my trench coat. While only as effective as a mediocre stun-gun, the fact that it was a 24 inch long metal pipe gave a nice alternative in case the zap didn't take care of business. It was also extremely effective for clearing out keg parties when it was time for everyone to go home. My other favorites included a plain old tube sock with a few fistfuls of wood screws or a pile of D batteries in it, a fistful of 18 inch coaxial cables with frayed ends (talk about a terrifying wound!), and in one extreme case a can of oven cleaner did the trick. My geekdom wasn't what caused my need for improvised weapons, it had more to do with having a blue mohawk and being an accused satanist in a small town in the 80s... Either way, any self respecting geek should have enough extra cables laying around that they shoud be able to sufficiently arm themselves. I don't mean that pansy-ass USB shit, dig up some SCSI cables! The coax can shred the sleeve of a leather jacket pretty effectively... not that I, as a "reformed" citizen, would know anything about that... But if you want to hear a 240 defensive tackle scream like a 6 year old girl on fire, flog him once or twice with a fistful of coax. In the case of a mugger, or other armed assailant, aim for the face and neck... Nothing says "no you can't have my iPod" like ripping someone's eye out. Everyone on Slashdot likes to bitch about how expensive they are... go ahead and sell it, you won't make enough to cover your ER visit... never mind the cost of a semi convincing glass eye and plastic surgery to give you a new cheek.
Someday a real rain is gonna come...
A cane can be just a good a baseball bat and does'nt
look like a wepon.
I fail to see the problem
Seriously... Anywhere in Idaho, USA. Or Alaska, Whyoming, etc.
Life is great. I can have a few beers, walk down the darkest alley I can find, pull out my iPod and cell phone and sit down with NO FEAR.
Think about how sad it actually is that you have to live like you do.
I easily solved this. I shaved my head, got several interesting piercings and have most of my visible body tattooed. Muggers see me coming and run away.
`fortune -o`
I carry my powerbook around in a shoulder bag I got at the Gap. It looks like something a student would use for books, but it's padded on the inside for a laptop. It's a clever design. You'd never really guess.
The criminal, by definition, has already decided that. By violating the laws of the society in which he lives, the criminal has decided that those laws are of no value. Those laws are what codify the value of life in that society. Those laws could protect him, too, but if he chooses to act outside of those laws, then that protection is forfeited (IMHO). Your statement seems to imply that it's OK for someone to go through life feeling victimized. [Sob..sniffle..sob]
And spare me the granola-crunching b.s. about how *all* life everywhere is valuable -- go tell it to the Chinese, whose troops fired on unarmed kids in Tienamien Square, and whose policy is to off babies as they're being born when their parents exceed some gov't quota.
Remember, this isn't about the 19-year-old who gets caught sipping a beer in a place where the drinking age is 21. We're talking about violent criminals here.
You don't have to DEFEAT the attacker. You only have to sting him.
A wasp will not kill you. But most people AVOID wasps. Why
Predators don't like to target people who FIGHT BACK!!!! If you FIGHT BACK most of them will go away. The ones who don't were probably going to hurt you ANYWAY.
Finally, lots of people die because the DON'T FIGHT BACK. They lay down like lambs to the slaughter. I'd rather go out fighting then die like a punk. I'd rather go out fighting than live life like a lamb.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
At the very least, a self-defense course will give you a confident demeanor, which will probably prevent most conflicts.
To go along with my titanium laptop and chrome backed iPod I had a stainless steel 1911 built with custom ivory grips. Muggers beware.
Guns are so C20th
Here is an idea: take all the money you would spend on the gun and training and administration and spend it on some insurance. Then IF you get mugged you get to say "here you go, enjoy the ipod, I really like the 1st track on the third album, have a nice day" and then upgrade all your gear, your laptop will be 25% faster, larger and generally better and all the crap you have been meaning to delete of the HDD for months will be gone.
Best suggestion: don't be a victim by living in fear. If you feel afraid, you will look it, and thus you will be vulnerable to attack.
I'd suggest getting a handgun for protection, but: it'd be stupid to pull a gun for something so incredibly un-threatening to your life. Yes, I'd recommend getting a gun as an additional accessory, but I would not suggest it be gotten for such "protection" purposes.
Instead, I'd recommend doing the following as a preemptive protection:
1) don't carry so much shit around. Do you really need a laptop and a PDA all the time? Truely, unplug the ipod sometime and pay attention to the world aorund you, for fuck's sake.
2) seriously, ditch the ipod. You're creating a hazzard for those around you by not paying full attention to your environment, and the ipod alone is the largest incentive for someone to mug you, as it's got a tremendous resale value and is easy to "lose" in the market - as opposed to a laptop, which has a lot of identifying information that crooks aren't likely to know all about. on the other hand, switching to a black earbud might have been enough, provided the ipod is thoroughly concealed. after all, undercover cops, detectives, and any other number of law enforcement agents tend to have black earbuds in at any given time, so that should scare them off.
3) (I'm saying this, thinking that the ipod only has a mono headphone, as opposed to two for stereo - if it's stereo, it's not likely to work as well. if that's the case, get a mono earbud, as then you'll be a little bit more alert and aware of your environment, which will help you not be unaware and walk into a bad situation)
4) Don't carry the laptop around in a laptop bag. Don't. Don't. Don't. This really should be quite obvious - keep the laptop in a padded backpack. There are backpacks now made specifically for this purpose. Backpacks are also a lot easier to tote around than those awkward laptop bags.
5) Work out. Eat healthy. If you're a fat slob, you're more likely to be mugged because you're more likely to be a a sluggish ball of lard, unable to fight back: ie, a victim. Get in shape and have some self respect.
5) wear baggy clothes to make yourself look more bulky than you are if you're a skinny beanpole geek
But basically: don't make yourself look like a victim. Having an ipod is a pretty good sign that you'd be a good, docile victim.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
It all depends on physique and disposition. Though I'd rather ANYBODY fight back. If you give over your money, they might want EVEN MORE after that. This is especially relevant for women.
The fundamental quality of ALL predators is that they're all effectively cowards. They are seeking the person LEAST likely to fight back. Most will stop their hunt if you show that you're not easy prey.
So you must show that your not CONCERNED about your personal health. This is their edge. They will hurt you. Crazy people don't care about their health and will do anything. This doesn't fit their idea of a nice clean robbery.
A wasp will not kill you, but you don't go out of your way to handle wasps. The STING is enough.
The exception to this is real professional criminals. But these folks will do WHATEVER they are paid to do irregardless of wether you fight back.
So, you might as well fight back and lower the chances of not becoming a statistic. If you're injured
I can tell you, if someone tries to rob me, one of us is going to leave severely injured. I walk with that intention. And it's likely people see that in my face.
Finally, I'll leave you with the illusion from the Book of Five Rings. The man literally woke up every morning EXPECTING that he was going to die. That is how he freed himself. He had already let go of the Earth. He could commit himself to combat fully without fearing to lose his life.
On a long enough timeline EVERYONE's survival rate drops to ZERO!!! We are all going to die. The question is
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
"The Economist" isn't a reference? "2000 ICVS" isn't a reference? Of course, this is coming from a guy who can't spell or use proper punctuation, to say nothing of writing coherently. "are the independent" is a fine example.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
I wear big shiny stainless steel rings to draw attention to my knuckle calluses.
If any would-be mugger doesnt realise what those calluses mean, then he fully deserves what he gets by trying to mug me.
From someone who's lived in urban areas, usually on the wrong side of the tracks, his entire life:
1) If you look like you think you might get mugged, it's only a matter of time until you will get mugged.
2) If you look like you think nobody in their right mind would fscking try to mug you, nobody will ever try to mug you.
It's that simple. Being street-wise is often as simple as looking convincingly street-wise.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
A tazer is a nice option since it will generally immobilize even the burliest mugger for a few minutes at least. This will generally be enough time for you to summon the police or get the hell out of there. The problem with guns is that you generally kill or seriously injure the assailant which can leave you in a messy and expensive legal situation, even if it was self defense. Usually, unless you are under immediate threat of deadly force (it is either him or you), then it is not legally acceptable to shoot someone dead. Hell, you can be arrested in most states for merely drawing your weapon in the wrong situation and discharging a firearm in public is certain to get you arrested until you can get a lawyer, post bail, and explain yourself. Tazers take less skill to handle properly than firearms and are generally much more portable. In some places in the United States firearms are doable but if you travel and especially internationally be advised that many other countries, the UK included, take a rather dim view towards firearms and especially handguns, but a Tazer may be acceptable. Bottom line, know the rules wherever you go and do not carry your gadgets conspicuously in the open or give potential attackers the impression of naivety and fear.
...insure your stuff...back up nightly...and encrypt sensitive data.
Then you can walk around with your armani carry bag, proudly wearing your D&G sun glasses and your pierre cardin watch and if someone tries to mug you, just say "sure budy, here's my laptop, wallet, cash and ipod...you want fries with that?"...
then head merrily off to your home in suburbia, make your insurance claim, restore your backups to another laptop and call all your friends to tell them about your exciting experience.
What you want to do is to carry all your gadgets in a diaper bag. Yes, I'm serious. This is a time-tested technique. Nobody wants to steal a baby-blue or pink cute little bag full of shit.
Not only will muggers avoid you, so will the chicks!
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
I do believe in the right to defend oneself. However, the point I want to bring up is that when you shoot its over (or highly likely). No second chances, no ability to undo what has been done. That person's life is over. In most cases, most people could probably live with that fact, but there are cases when you might give it a second thought.
I'm filling the sucker full of lead. My life is more important than a would-be criminal's.
Yes, but that's not the choice here. It's your electronic gadgets vs. someone's life.
You know, it's easy for anyone to be pro-firepower when one talks about their life being on the line, which is probably why people with certain attitudes about guns keep bringing it up, but that's so rarely the case. I mean, really, driving is more dangerous than just walking around town.
There's a whole world underneath London! The people are pretty dodgy, but they have little or no clue about non-lethal gadgets.
Of course, you'll have to develop a taste for barbecued rats, and give up all contact with the upper world, but it's a small price to pay for being able to carry your toys around in peace!
1. Learn to recognize them
2. Avoid them when you can
3. Limit the walking around you do in them when you can't avoid them
This is infinitely more important than the minutia of body language or the policics of gun control which are being discussed here a lot. Maybe pointing this stuff out isn't politically correct or something. Heaven forbid we should appear elitist. (although I'd argue that recognizing where you aren't welcome is anything but)
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
I dress in a crappy jacket.
I hide everything in crappy bags.
I wear a Barbie hat.
I only shave once a week.
I am not ashamed to talk to myself in public while working out coding problems.
I look either insane or too poor to be worth mugging.
I have lived in the inner city for 20 years and I walk almost everywhere - even late at night.
It works.
I know this is really REALLY buried in the thread now, but nobody in NYC seems to be afraid of showing off their tech. EVERYWHERE you look you see the white ipod headphones.
Even better.. I was riding the 7 train home from Grand Central on Thursday and I saw a guy carrying a 17" powerbook closed under his arm like a notebook. He had headphones plugged in and was listening to it I think.
Talk about a big walkman. It's funny... nobody really worries about being mugged in most of NYC anymore.
The amount of times where the criminal has actually sued like this is huge. The informal advice was shooting to kill is cheaper because dead people can't sue you. At least not where I came from (at the time I left anyway).
Point of interest: According to a conversation I overheard between a cop and a regular citizen in Australia, there a cop can only pull his gun from its holster if he intends to fire it and MUST shoot to kill, not wound. I believe it is to make sure criminals know exactly where they stand and to stop police using a gun for harassment/intimidation purposes. If a holster seal is broken, there is a LOT of paperwork.
Any Aussie cops like to verify/clarify?
The man with no surname and a silly hat
On the universe: It's bunk.
You don't take it with you to the bathroom do you?
Of course I do! That's what WiFi is for. Much more convenient then sitting down with a magazine and realising you've picked up last weeks issue that you've already read.
Me, I usually use a backpack-cooler combo back. It's the perfect size for my Powerbook, miniDV camera, digital camera, snacks, a jacket, sunscreen and anything else you might want to lug around. The cooler insulation makes great padding for the contents, it just looks like it's got peanut butter sandwhiches in it, and I can relax a lot easier than with my pricey computer bag.
i d= 3&step=2
For those who are interested, mine looks like one of the Roundabout coolers from this page:
http://store.ca-innovations.com/merchant.ihtml?
I believe I picked it up at a Long's some time ago.
-Elentar
The wheel it turns, around and around, with an ancient rumbling sound.
Every day I wear slacks and a button-up shirt. I have a shiny watch, nice shoes, and carry a brushed aluminum laptop case. Often I'm talking on or browsing the web with an expensive cell phone, and occaisionally I'll by carrying an SLR digital camera around my neck. Until now I've never worried about it. Thanks a lot.
--
Why the hell not? Here's some SEO: Home Inspector
Maybe someone here remembers more of the details of this case.. but I recall something similar happening in Oakland where a burglar broke into a mans house and was confronted in the living room with a knife in one hand, and stolen goods in the other. The homeowner then attacked the burglar with a bat and seriously injured the man.
The homeowner was then arrested and faced charges of assault with a deadly weapon. The whole community was up and arms and I think the DA finally dropped the charges.
But the parent is right.. are all the legal fee's and associated hassle really worth an ipod? I mean, by all means - if your life is in danger, protect yourself. But is it worth killing some homeless, drug addicted teenager who is trying to scare you into giving up your favorite new gizmo?
If more States would give back the rights of its citizens to bare arms this would no longer be a topic of discussion as the thought of a crime like this would be so remote. Instead of looking at it as a problem needing to be solved your simply looking at how not to be the victim. It's cowardice in its rawest form. Seeing posts like this were some coward is just looking for ways to save his own butt makes me feel sad for those who came before him to secure his right to walk down the street without fear. For this is the man who instead of fighting to maintain that right cowers to the minute criminal element in this country just as so many conservatives cower to the emotional thinking of the liberal initiatives who rather than thinking through problems simply feel their way trough them.
Number one you will not find more than $50 in my wallet.
Number two a nice walking stick note I don't need it it is a dress thing suit and a nice black walking stick with a gold trim(at the same point they use to break to display a sword).
Please note a Knife does not matchup to a walking stick most thiefs forget it. Note it is worse than a unbrella as it also has a large head and a small point at the other end that is great to slam on someones foot close to equal to a high head it can break bones in a persons foot stoping them in there track. Or driven into the chest will kill.
Note carrying a gun is not worth it Number one you have to draw it walking stick is already drawn. Walking stick beats knife walking stick is visiable no licence smart thief stays away stupid thief kicks walking stick before drawing weapon.(note I am not leaning on it with any force) Most case a person with a gun will draw it first by the time you draw yours you will be shot. If lucky a thief with get careless and a walking stick still wins.
Basicly learn how to fight with a walking stick you can beat the crap out of anyone who attacks first even if they have a walking stick execpt with a gun what you will not stand a chance against unless you get lucky.
Basic rules number one not a hidden weapon they can see so they can choose to aviod you where with a gun they can not see so they don't have the chance to pick aviod. The stick is part of the cloths I am wearing ie a suit and walking stick looks good some versions are also your seat verry handy at times. Also a suit provides a lot of internal pockets to hide stuff my hand held and my music system. Standard walkman headphones don't stand out due to leads running inside suit coat.
Also a simple switch link mobile phone head phones to a player only hearing half the music can save time just the same.
Speak softly and carry a big stick - Theodore Roosevelt
Do you really think I'm go to put something novel here?
I dont know whats worse, the comment or the mod...
GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
Have you ever been mugged?
Seriously. Do you know how often muggings happen where and when you travel? How big is that risk compared to where you used to live. My guess is that London is not the place where you grew up and that is why you are feel so vulnerable.
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
I have been mugged and I have had a PDA stolen. I got a new PDA and a few months down the line the same guy tried to mug me. He was coming up behind me and I turned around and hit him right in the middle of the face. He fell to the ground, bled (quite a lot, that was kinda cool) and then pulled a gun. I gave him *. I live in another city now. It wasn't just him but that whole area seemed to be a shithole. I'm a pansy I know but it gets hard to write 3 PDAs off as an expense!
Oh sure, it won't kill anybody, but it will sure make them wish they hadn't been on the recieving end. In many cases, just showing you have teeth is enough to extricate yourself from the situation. After all, the average mark they're aming for is docile and most importantly, unarmed. It may not be a potent load, but you know somewhere in the back of Petty Joe Mugger's mind he knows there is always the off chance of rolling that natural 20 when you pull the trigger. Combine that with having to explain an extranious bodily hole or two along it's accompanying pain and you have something most muggers will try to avoid.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I'm about 6', 250 lbs.
:)
:)
I've only been 'mugged' once; chased the guy for 3 miles, opened a can of whoop-ass, and performed a gen-yoo-wine citizen's arrest. (the 5-Oh actually charged the guy with resisting arrest for running from me
So my advice is, be large, shave your head, and try to look mean
i would really love to chain myself to my laptop when travelling or sleeping at a party. just connect the kensington interface to a handcuff and snap it on my wrist. i may even gain coolness by looking like the dudes from secret service who carry those infamous red-button suitcases :)
of course, the downside would be that if someone really wants to take my gear, i could end up missing not only my laptop, but also everything from the elbow down.
...I used to live in New York City, and when people visited me, some of them apparently had an "aura" about them that screamed out that they were prey. Others were never messed with.
In the beginning, at least, I was rarely able to guess which of my acquaintences were going to be constantly hassled during their visit, but it wasn't like there was a continuum of abuse: it was one way or the other.
And it wasn't about how expensive their clothes were, or their "gear". (Unless they tried to dress in some kind of "street chic", in which case they were practically guaranteed trouble.)
Although I am tempted to say it was "attitude", I think that it was more about that moment on the street when two people notice each other. I think it was in *how* they looked out of their eyes at the people on the street around them, *how* they noticed them, *how* they were aware of them, *how" they responded to them in that passing moment.
I think it helps if you try to imagine that all the people around you are individuals. (I know it sounds trite, but trite can still be true.)
After a decade of living in NYC, I got to a point where I would occasionally see someone walking down the street and instantly know that they were a "minnow". I could almost "smell" it, myself. In those cases that even I could tell, I knew these guys were heading for big trouble.
As far as carrying weapons go, or taking martial arts classes,-- I think that the real benefit of these activities is in sensitizing you to the individuality of those around you, and to the potential for violence that they, as well as you, carry in any moment. (note: I think carrying a weapon can skew a confrontation towards violence too quickly.)
In general, and in addition to the above, my own approach is, if you don't want to be shot by a gun, you'll increase your chances of avoiding it if you stay away from people that carry them.
--forgotten password
Its interesting how many people have actually been mugged, here in NZ, I genuinely dont know anyone who has been assualted, let alone shot/stabbed. Just shows how different the world is.
---
Carry mace or pepper-spray with you or (if possible in your location/country) get a permit for a concealed handgun, and carry one. While your money/toys are never worth your life, your money and your toys are worth the life of the criminal that would take them from you.
Have no illusions my friend, those who would take your money and invade your person have no use for witnesses. They will take your life on a whim.
These are the odds of innocent citizens. Never be afraid to defend your yourself with all necessary force.
--cc
Less conversion time
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
Stop being a woose and do what everyone else does, start packing a 9mm and get a license to conceal carry it. If you live in an area that doesn't allow that for some reason, then you might want to move away from France. Remember if you do have to shoot someone, make sure they're dead otherwise they can sue you. :)
Now i know whom to target.
Reminds me of the old adage from the book The Outsiders:
"What's the best thing to be if you meet a lowlife in a dark alley?"
"A tae kwan do black belt!"
"No, another lowlife."
Paraphrased of course, but anyone that's read the book probably knows the part.
I dunno.
The 'sensitive single father type' has appeal for some.
My 'hit' rate with approaches from females in bars went up noticably when I had a wedding ring on my finger. I sort of understand how that might work, but am not really interested in that little attachment.
out of many of the muggings near my school (U of I, Chicago), rarely do they ever result in violence. I too would rather give up my goods than take a life. we should also worry about the societal circumstances that cause these muggers and crooks to do such things and work on fixing them. could be better parenting, school funding, what not.
merely protecting yourself or camoflauging your equipment does nothing to prevent the act in the first place.
..if your wallet is shaped like a ninja star!
FYI....
Most British Police don't even have gun licenses. Some British police form Armed Response Units. They obviously have guns but the only place they are publicly visible is airports. No British foot police patrol our cities with guns. The Armed Response Teams are trained for just that and I'm sure they don't leave weapons in their car which sounds really insecure.
Armed response teams used to set off from police stations as required. Nowadays I think there are armed response teams driving around the capital in vans. They don't come out of their vans unless an armed response is actually needed - they are just there to make the response quicker. Police in a regular patrol car won't have guns.
As far as I'm concerned there's no good reason for anyone to have a gun in town. Or a pistol anywhere.
I am British, lived there most of my life.
In descending order of desirability:
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
So by your logic, if let's say I would buy a car that got 100 mpg in the city I would pay for one, but since they don't sell ones like that, it's ok for me to steal one of the ones they they do sell?
Nuff said.
- Better to speak your mind than to remain silent, or someone may speak for you.
I of course don't think you should be stupid, and blindly put yourself at undue risk. IE: walking in a rough neighborhood at 2 am would not be good. But then I don't think the original poster was talking about this type of situation
When "TRAVELING"(from the original post) .. I see no reason to feel threatend at all. In general you would have some secure form of transport to the airport or (train station perhaps in europe) where in general there are quantities humans. In post 911 there is even more "security" personel at these places as well, not exactly the smartest hunting ground for a mugger.
Paranoia is a very powerful tool, used to control the masses. Just say no
regards
dbcad7
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
I CALL SHENANIGANS!!
or maybe just bullshit will suffice.
A friend had his iPAQ lifted from a fancy backpack whilst riding on a crowded bus. Mostly because all those external pockets are so easy to open up without being noticed (compared to rummaging through all the other junk in the typical back pack).
Because he had marked the iPAQ with his name and other distinguishing features, and because he took the time to visit a few pawn shops, he was able to get his iPAQ back and the guy who stole it even got busted for it.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
are the most effective.
Carry around large rocks. When you get mugged throw them at the mugger's head. His skull will take a bruising, or if you throw well be split open. Bye-bye mugger.
Obviously you didn't follow my logic very well, and used a worse analogy to boot.
Suppose car 1 gives you 100 mpg. But it's not sold separately. It comes with two trucks and a bulldozer. Why should you be forced to pay for those additional items? You have no use for them, you don't want them, but you aren't given any option. If car 1 was sold separately you _would_ buy it, but you aren't given that choice. Simply because there are no other dealers in the market, and everybody follows this convention of bundling.
I don't like all of Norah Jones' songs. I like one. And I like it a lot. And since I think that she did some really creative work for that ONE song, as a consumer I would signal to her to make more songs like that one by paying for _that_ one song, and not paying for the other ones that I think are crap. But I don't have that choice. I have to buy the whole 13-song CD, and pray that the next one will have good songs too. Now u have iTunes e.t.c, so this problem is partly alleviated. What about all those old songs that are not on iTunes' list? They'd need a massive database to hold every song released since 1950 (or maybe the 1800s even?). And it wouldn't be commercially viable for them to do so, no matter how cheap storage gets. Piracy is only going to go away when they finally start listening to the consumer. They're only halfway there presently.
My Favourite Meme
Don't listen to these other idiots here. You don't need to change your dress. Just use common sense. You can dress smart without worrying about being mugged. If you do what these people suggest, you are giving up and letting the bastards win.
You are not going to get mugged if you appear confident and alert. If someone approaches you, look them square in the eyes. The coward muggers will turn away out of fear.
Mind you, I have a shaved head, wear a 40 pound leather jacket and have broad shoulders. :) I probably look like a thug to some people.
If you are scrawny, join a gym. It does wonders for appealing to the opposite sex too.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Looking for tips and tricks how to prevent Linux laptops and PDAs from being stolen or getting lost? Here is a HOWTO about Theft and Loss Protection for Linux Laptops, Notebooks and PDAs.
True Geeks shouldn't have to walk on the streets, and face it: wearing 'phones that don't look like headies from and ipod won't make a difference because muggers will think your ipod is just a casette deck anyway, muggers not being the most technologically literate people on this planet.
:P
But back to true geeks.
True geeks can only do anything significant at times that resemble binary, such as 10:10, 01:11, etc.
Also true geeks only go to stores for products that aren't available online, and for the most part get a non-geeks to go with them.
And finally, true geeks either are the kind of people who look homeless whenever they leave the house anyway or people who make enough money to drive cars.
Oh, and as if you'd carry your lappy in a seperate bag. get the 3mil thick slimline bags and place them into your backpack or breifcase. unless your a femgeek who only takes a hnadbag and a laptop bag, in which case your asking to be mugged by walking around the city at night. (not trying to be offensive, but muggers generally go for women over men due to the genetic and socialogic differences that make them easier targets) I know you can't help it gals
The world would be a better place if...
I don't care where you live or what the laws are. A nice 12-shot (with high-capacity magazine, ten standard) .45 deals with muggers very nicely.
Just don't carry it in your laptop bag if you expect it to be snatched.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
...those people had no idea that they were going to be murdered, or that by not fighting back, they would be "laying down like lambs" while thousands of others died.
your comments suggest that the people on those flights that hit the twin towers should have known, and could have prevented the deaths of thousands if only they would not have been so "tolerant of bad guys".
The terrorists who highjacked those flights certainly were lying, and intimidating the passengers - probably threatening the use of a bomb or the likes. It was not as if they were announcing to everyone that "Hey, myself and four others are going to uses these 1 inch razor blades and take on all 100 + of you passengers. We have plans of crashing this plane into the world trade centers and aim to kill thousands and thousands of your countrymen."
don't be such a god damned idiot.
For one, don't park your ass at a Burger King in one of the worst neighborhoods in the city with your 4000 Dell XPS notebook. I see nerds on the subway with their laptops in full view doing nothing but playing Solitaire. Quit showing off, dumbasses, and you won't get jacked. Easy.
And that goes for those telltale white headphones too.
- IP
Learn how to use it, and decide first that you WILL use it. Get a license if you need one in your area.
Don't shoot your gear after it's been swiped, though. I have a calculator case with a bullet hole in it. Amazingly, the calculator (TI SR-51 II) deflected the bullet, and still works.
The armed robber does not work quite so well.
The latest Slashdot meme.
Note that on slashdot, he's very unlikely to get surrounded by religious fanatics. More likely, it's one of those edgy terms like calling an old fashioned hoax a "troll". Still he has a very good point. Your body often warns you of trouble and it is the culmination of hundreds of millions of years of selection for critters that survived getting mugged.
I predict (well, I don't, but it is a fun idea) that once we have ubiquitous, low-cost high-speed networks the problem will be solved by re-architecting consumer devices into two parts.
The intelligence and the guts of the device will stay at home, plugged into a docking station. You will carry the equivalent of a thin client - uniquely keyed to the the back-end which provides UI functionality only.
Someone steals your iiPod ? no use to them, the music is streaming from home and the bit you are carrying only costs $50 and is useless without the other part.
Going somewhere without the magic network? The two parts snap together, but the likelihood is that the places *with* the network will be the places (urban, high density) where you are most likely to be mugged.
We've already seen similar innovation in car radio market where the little coded front panel pops off.
OK, so it probably won't happen, but hey its a solution in the true Slashdot spirit n'est pas?
If a muggler will stop you at the street, with a knife or gun, smile at him, put your hand into your pocket, try to stay as close to muggler as possible, and whisper to his ear: "Allah ackbar! Before we go, I will tell you about the paradise. You will see it now, but don't be afraid...". I think that would work with an american muggler, just show more joy in your voice :)
Also, having a rubber naturalistic grenade in a pocket might ensure muggler is thinking in a right way.
Take up a sport that uses a bat or racket. Get good with it or become a track star.
I don't remember where I heard this... I think a college class... One in seven rape victims is male. (I assume a lot of that is prison rape though)
Judging by some of the posts on this forum, it seems the pro-gun people think a mugging goes like this:
[Innocent Geek wanders down the street]
Geek: "Dump-de-doo..."
[Mugger jumps out of some bushes brandishing a knife]
Mugger: "Aha! Your money or your life!"
[Geek reels in shock, but quickly recovers]
Geek: "You roustabout! Taste some of this!"
[Geek pulls gun]
Mugger: "Forsooth! The tables have turned! I must flee!"
Reality check: Talk to anyone who has been mugged. It's never like how they expected it to happen.
Often, muggers will hit you before you even know they're there. In some places, they'll just stab or shoot you without even confronting you with demands - you'll be too worried about pain and blood loss to think about fighting back, and that's the idea.
Keep your wits about you, stop listening to music and being oblivious in dangerous environments. If it's not dangerous then yeah go on listening to music, nothing to worry about.
Why would muggers pick on difficult targets? They'd go for easy targets.
If it's just people looking for a way to get their next drug high, you may be able to negotiate a deal - they get money for their hit, you get to keep most of your stuff and no blood spilled. They may not even remember you - it's nothing personal - all they care about is getting their next high.
Otherwise, if it looks real bad, take out wallet, take the cash out, drop the cash on ground and run. If he still goes for you, chuck some stuff, if he doesn't stop to collect the stuff it may be personal (or mistaken identity), good luck...
Well, while we're busy trying to look horrible/crazy for work, we might as well go the extra mile. Get a dozen or so road flares, wire them together, have something with a big red button on it wired to this contraption, and then strap the whole mess around your chest in a very visible fashion. Carry the red button attachment in your free hand held up high, thumb ready to press the button. Now EVERYONE will avoid you... except maybe police snipers.
I'm from South America.
Criminals here are ruthless.
They will probably kill you, no matter if you give them money or not.
I always had in my mind the idea of killing squads, to go and kill them before they act.
In Brazil, ocassionaly killing squads take raids on fabelas, and kills every criminal in sight.
I think that is a good choice, but this squads are illegal, and hard to form.
They are like squads of 'vigilantes', they gather together, go to hunting, and disappear...
You could do what i do now, found the technique by accident, and now intend to do it the next time i get mugged.
:-)
I was walking home from the army surplus store the other day when three guys step out from an alley and tell me to hand my stuff over. So I started my insane cackling (I am really good at that. just got to remember to start soft and quiet and then slowly let the laughter build) and pulled out the old grenade casing i picked up from the surplus store.
You should of seen those guys' eyes when they recognized it - and their eyes widened even more when i pulled the pin. I looked at the leaders eyes, cocked my head and said softly "boom." two took off and one just stood there with a... wetness soaking his jeans.
Ah... Good memories. If you can fake em, all's good
In my country, Denmark, we have quite a few problems with immigrants from the Middle East area. Being a slim guy I have had 4 attempts of mugging none of them really worked. Here's my recipy:
1. If you can the shaved your head (works fine - I have a large dent which looks like an axe blow which scares most people) and thereby looking agressive.
2. Look at people as if you wanted to rip out their liver but dont get direct eye contact (sets the muggers off). People will then stay away from you.
3. Get a rucksack (preferbly Army / Khaki) and put all of the things in it.
4. Put the cell phone on silence and vibrate.
5. Attempt to look like something which YOU wouldn't want to meet in a black alley at night.
6. If being mugged attempt to seem like a psycho and attacking the assailant.
If all of the above doesn't work here are 2 final ones:
7. Learn Martial Arts (like Wing Tsun - not pretty but highly efficient) - I broke an arm, a jaw and crushed the nose of a guy attacking me with a knife.
8. RUN LIKE HELL!!!
Or maybe us geeks should start mugging the muggers instead...
Take care.
Never buy Sony CDs - they will open up your computer to anyone..
...they don't treat relationships like games...
Damn straight, I treat mine like SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS.
I wonder how she'll react if I eat the spider instead of smiting it?
Today I'll find out why she doesn't put some clothing items into the dryer.
I wonder what happens if I slip a Jolly Rancher in there while I'm eating her out, will she even notice?
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
I live in Newport Beach (yes, teh OC!!11[0]). I move around a lot with my laptop.
One: I am looking for a fight. I'll take every one of you on.
Two: I am willing to die for my thinkpad. I'm suicidal anyway, just give me an excuse.
I get the feeling I'm going to get modded troll. Oh, well. Yay, "Post Anonymously" checkbox!
[0] I hate that show.
Get different headphones for your iPod. Don't carry what is obviously a laptop bag, carry a beat-up raggedy backpack. Act confident, but not cocky. Hold your head up high. Know your neighbors. Perform regular back-ups, not just to guard against theft, but coffee, dropping, accidental deletion, etc.
I hate sigs.
You call that a knife? This is a knife.
If you have a car use that to carry stuff in. If you have a dorm room, apartment or house leave some of it behind. Do you actually use all of that stuff enough to put up with the burden of carrying it all? You can listen to a laptop the same as an iPod and you can supposedly store data on an iPod. If you have a CD burner or a portable (USB or Firewire) hard drive that's another option. Get a cheap desktop for home and leave the laptop at work. Get high speed internet access and use SSH or VPN. Pen drives, flash memory cards, etc...
In short "carry" less stuff. I don't like to walk around with $3000 in my wallet either.
Caucasian does not include Indians.
As our fellow Geek ESR proves, you don't have to be a muggger's christmas if you're a geek.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
The 'sensitive single father type' never got me shit. My daughter had lots of hot (21+) friends, though. I guess she benefitted from the 'cute 6yo kid type'...
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
you are seriously asking for it...
NO. You are shooting to KILL. If you cannot face that fact, you should not own a gun or be allowed to touch one in non-sporting contexts.
this is even better since there's no brie getting smushed in a pocket
Move to a country that will let you carry a pistol, too.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
My roommate likes to walk to work and she works at night. I think it annoys her a little that I insist on walking her the three miles to work and then home again when she leaves (yes, a total of ~12 miles of walking for me per night) but I really don't think it's safe for her to walk alone. She thinks that because this is an okay neighborhood and because she is pretty tough that she'd be okay but I really disagree. All women are more appealing targets because almost always they are easier targets and because even if they don't have money they have a value to most attackers (usually male). You said you were mugged with your fiance. How do you think things would have gone if she'd been alone when mugged? Is it really so sexist to think women need escorts when walking at night?
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I'm sorry, but Bob Marley would not be caught dead singing a song that bad. It was Bobby McFerrin who was responsible for that travesty.
Leave your shit at home, moron! Why do you feel the need to carry around every electronic gadget on the face of the earth?! Granted it's probably the only exercise you get lugging that stuff around, but honestly! Unplug once in a while Poindexter!
It doesn't matter how many gadgets you have on you. If your clothes are clean you probably have enough pocket change on you to be worth mugging.
So the question isn't how do you keep from being mugged. Then question is what are you gonna do when it happens. It will. Trying to avoid it is fantasy.
I'm a fan of reverse security planning. Plan reaction first: then detection, then protection. A security plan is worthless if you haven't planned for failure. That IS the problem you're trying to solve.
So I would reccomend a disciplined backup regimen with your gadgets encrypting the data coupled with an insurance policy. You would have to spend 20 years as a shao-lin monk to be able to fistfight your way out of the sitation and buying a gun is pointless because it's impossible to get to it when somebody surprises you from behind and puts a box cuter to your throat. It's just one more thing to steal.
Let the insurance comapany replace your old hardware with cooler new hardware. The thiefs got cyphertext and obsolete crap. The goal is to get out of the situation safely. There's no way to 100% keep from being mugged, but you can plan such that when it happens you come out of it alive and the impact it has on your life is minimal.
Yeah. I find it a bit odd that women are so calculating about dating. To often even women you're close to will judge you by how much money you make. It really bothers me actually. I don't care if I'm making a lot or a little.. I don't want my work life and my income to define who I am or my relationships. Funny me for wanting to base relationships off love and respect.
The effectiveness of flashing cash to pick up girls makes me wonder why prostitution is illegal. If a woman only goes out with you because you have money how is that any better than trading sex for cash?
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Not to start a debate, but what's getting mugged in England like anyway?
In America if you get mugged odds are the mugger has a gun. There's also a better than U.K. chance that the victim has a gun. That makes it a high risk proposition meaning that people who try it are more committe to finishing it. In England I'd imagine with the absence of guns [or the absence of honest people having guns], that more people'd be inclined to try mugging as a consequence.
I'm curious if anyone from the U.K. has any opinion on the matter, or likewise if anyone from America's been robbed. I hear a lot more about pickpockets in Europe than ever happens in America, but maybe that's a consequence of not living in the middle of New York [or London].
Don't stare at people, but return their look if given one.
Be careful. I live in Denmark, and returning looks will get you in trouble with some particular minorities that happen to roam in groups. Not necesserily because they wanna mug you, maybe they might just wanna pick a fight. Don't get within arms reach - we all know the shoulder hitting trick. It's like a troll, and they're waiting for you to bite.
It's really, really sad. I've been close twice. The last time was just a few months ago on the main pedestrian street in Copenhagen.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
I work 80 hours a week, I have a wife who is diagnosed with mild schizophrenia, three children who are all teenagers, a boss that makes the pointy hair guy look like an astute and perceptive manager with the business sense of Warren Buffet and the understanding of Mother Theresa, I pay all my utilities one month behind, I have two car payments with interest rates over 16%, I owe over $180k in back taxes, and another $60k in medical and credit card debt. When I get off work in downtown LA at 1 a.m., I carry out my laptop and pda in a $500 briefcase with my 2-way pager and cell phone proudly displayed from my nice leather belt...
and I pray some idiot crook tries to mug me, so I can vent some of this pent up stress, with out going to jail for murder.
I guess legality varies on your location. I live in British Columbia I had mine taken by police but they later returned it to me. At one point they where going to issue them to bus driveres with training but it did not happen. These sort of things are usualy leagal until a bad guy uses them in a movie and a bunch of people copy this behavior.
Many a long talk since then I have had with the man in the moon; he had my confidence on the voyage. Joshua Slocum
"Hell hath no fury like a hippo with a machine gun."
...but not too useful, especially to me.
:-(
A few years back I discovered (while having an MRI for an unrelated reason) I was born with an abnormality in my brain that means any moderate-hard blow to the head is very likely to kill me pretty much instantly.
Anyone physically asulting me could well find themselves on manslaughter charges. Assuming they are caught, of course. And it doesn't do me much good either.
The man with no surname and a silly hat
On the universe: It's bunk.
The Caucasian race is a proposed race of Homo sapiens found in Europe, West and central Asia, North Africa, and in the Indian subcontinent. The defining characteristics of the race were said to be "optimized" or ideally represented by the peoples of the Caucasus region of Eastern Europe; hence the name.
Just get a spare p1 server with a decent harddrive and do an rsync cron job at night. sync your home dir to a tarball or whatever and viola! constant backup...
Load that server up with ram, and get it on dsl or cable, and you can do vnc or remote X session over ssh when you need to.
Obviously, walking around in body armour, with multiple armed guards and snipers covering you would be more effective, but it's also costly.
As long as the clear plastic bag also contains a ferret on crack, yes.
Speak in German with occasional shouting. Few languages are harsher or scarier-sounding than German, especially when spoken loudly. Try meandering from muttering to outright shouting and back.
If in a neghborhood where foreign languages might attract unwanted attention, try this: Pick an object and assign that object a quality it does not have. Assign bonus points if the object is not something people usually walk around muttering about (colored disks, Han Solo). Subtract points if the object is something people could reasonably be walking around muttering about (keys, car, wallet, yo' mama). Start walking and begin muttering that you can't find [object]. Occasionally look around and, in the sanest voice possible, ask if anyone knows where your [object] is. Ask for directions or a guide. Achieve eye contact, then stare angrily at them because they're hiding your [object].
Maybe other states, but given the number of people killed, certainly not Victorian cops!
BTW, all cops, everywhere that I know (including one of my martials arts instructors, who is also one of the police defence tactics training instructors here in Washington) are taught StK. There are a lot of very good reasons for this. Primary reason is that the easiest thing to hit is the body, not the extremities. Called shooting at the center of seen mass. Go for the biggest target as if you're off by a little bit in your aim then you've still got a high probability of a hit. A shoot to wound strategy requires you aiming at a far smaller target - shoulder, leg, arm - all of which are close to impossible to hit in a real life situation.
Other reasons why StK is mandatory is that a wacko coming at you pumped full of various substances, as well as adrenaline, is not going to feel a wound - or at least not enough to stop them from continuing in their path the attempt to hurt you. That person coming at you at full speed can easily clear a 10 metre gap between you before you get a chance to put a second round into them. Generally a police officer will not double tap, which means by the time recoil, damping and aiming again, the attacker is already on top of you and you're history.
Life is complete only for brief intervals in between toys or projects -- John Dalton
backups. enough said.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Would you really change your lifestyle (get piercings, dress like your were destitute etc.) simply as a deterrent to mugging?
That's about as intelligent as passing laws to restrict your hard won freedoms when your country is threatened by terrorists.
Here on Slashdot you may think you are enlightened liberals, but you are displaying all the weak responses the fools in your government are.
I was going to say something like "move to New Zealand", but on second thoughts keep away, please.
and the best advice I can give you is to dress poorly, and look a little bit more on the rundown side while traveling, and for gods sake, try to avoid to look like a tourist. that doesnt help with getting laid, but helps a lot at least in the western hemisphere to be avoided by muggers.
when I was a teen, i looked like your average geek - small, thin, belly, glasses, messy hair, clothes 20 years out of style, etc. i got mugged about 3 to 4 times a year, which is a lot for the place I live (vienna, austria). during the last years, i went through some strange times, which left me heavily tatooed on both arms. feeling that this looked a bit strange with my thin frame, i started some minor training which, after about a year, gave me quite nice arm muscles. also, due to some starting baldness, i shaved off my hair. what i only noticed later that, every time i went out with a sleeveless shirt, nobody shady-looking even got near me. i guess what I'm trying to say is : try to look a bit more dangerous than you maybe are. no, do not get a tatoo unless you want it, but there are some easy ways of chaning your appearance that will send the signal that you'd mean business to small-time criminals. also, i found to love cargo pants. they mostly have very deep, closable pockets, making it very hard to pickpocket you, because the thief would virtually have to dig around in your privates to get your cell phone or ipod. for my laptop, i bought a very thin backpack that I conceal beneath a jacket or shirt-over-tshirt. it has small internal compartments where i keep my palm and ibook. finally, i attached a belt to my mobile which is sewn to my pants. this might feel a bit weird at first, but not only is it a good way to prevent theft, it stops the damn thing from falling out when i run :)
Karma
If you are an OSS/Free SW developer, there may be
more reason behind it. Corporate Donations!!
No joke. I've lived in a lot of dodgy places and only ever been beaten up twice (both times when I didn't have a beard).
Everybody body knows people with beards are outsiders, poor and usually crazy.
No one ever mugged Charles Manson, did they?
Sorry, no relation to pittsburg apart from having a freind that grew up there. So if that was a joke and not a question, I have to admit it was completely over my head.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
i just went to china to study debianzhang with master xian and master chenping but then i never came back so do the math
Cops in America(well at least in my part of it) are also taught to shoot to kill. If it's not a situation you are willing to kill, you shouldn't shoot. The reasoning being "shooting to wound" is not reliable, and if you do it enough you're gonna kill someone by accident anyway. It's my opinion that you should not carry or draw a gun unless you are ready and willing to kill.
Couple of anecdotes:
1) Got mugged when 16. Lost my jacket, watch and assorted to some bastards who followed me on the tram. Didn't recognize the danger signs. Now I see them (see 4).
2) On a couple of occasions, thugs have come up to me to beat me up (on principle). On most of the occasions, they end up my 'friends' as in they left me alone after inviting for a drink/conversation. I basically learned the gift of gab and changed their perception of me. If they thought I was a rich snob, I told them I hate my boss and life. If they thought I was from a certain town, part of town, I told them I was from somewhere completely else. If they wanted to hit me on principle, I told them a sad story about my girlfriend dumping me and my grandfather's dog dying. I only got the crap kicked out of me on one occasion, when I didn't have the time to talk.
3) After being beaten up, I got a telescoping baton. It is some scary shit and legal in many places. I got to use it a month after buying it. I was drinking in a park at night with friends. There were 4 of us. Suddenly two guys with stockings on their heads and a gun and a knife appeared and said "Your cellphones and your money". One second later, my stick was out and I was smacking the guy with the gun. Stupid. But I broke his arm. He ran off shouting that I was a fag. After getting his ass kicked and the stocking ripped from his head (I hit him a couple of times).
4) A while ago, I was walking around with my baton, chatting on my phone. Noticed some guys walking around after me. Tried to lose them. Unsucessfully. They surrounded me and told me to give them my phone. I said "No!" and ran shouting crazy talk. They didn't follow. If I had the baton I would have beat the shit out of them.
5) After that incident I haven't had much shit apart from a couple of situations in clubs or bars where some guy tried to go after my girl. I stare them down and tell them to go away. I'm not really scared.
Don't be scared. Don't make yourself into a hobo (do you really want your fear to change your appearance and lifestyle). Walk around like you belong somewhere. If accosted, talk back. If you've got protection, use it. If you don't, run. If you can't, give it up.
When I start to get approached by some thugs I'll call out "Hey, you got a dollar?" They usually get an annoyed look on their face and keep walking. It really works well with bums too. I had one even come up and hug me one time because he felt bad for me, lol
You could always carry a Taser
They are of course totally illegal in the UK, but then so is mugging.
Super Awesome Broadband
one of the things a prosecuting lawyer (even in an obvious self defense shoot) will try to get you on is whether your ammunition was specifically designed to kill someone.
True. But I use hollow points because there is less chance of "over penetration", the round going through a thin wall and hurting a bystander. Police make the same claim. This excuse doesn't work for black talons....
You are right on with the 'stop the action' angle.
> BTW, all cops, everywhere that I know
This just begs for a response. 'Everywhere that I know' happens to also include that part of the world thats not inside the USA (yet) ?
If it is then you are absolutely and completely wrong.
In quite a few places in Europe, icluding the part where I happen to live (the Netherlands), police is taught to shoot to kill ONLY if they had no other options whatsoever, and are taught to STOP what is going on usign the least amount of force possible.
Incidentely (check the CIA world fact book on it if you like) we also have:
1. less people killed in general
2. less people killed by police use of violence
3. less policemen killed by violence
4. less robbery with use of violence
5. lower crime rate in general then the USA.
And yes, we also have banned weapons from daily life, tho it is very well possible to have one for sports or hunting.
Interestingly, Spain follows a lot closer the rules as they are in the USA, and also turns out having by far the highest rate of violent robberies and people gettign killed by violence of all of western EUrope (actually, only Poland and some parts of eastern EUrope come close to it, and don't surpass it yet)
The point is that there is a statistical relationship between amount of violence and how a society deals with weapons.
That relation nowhere shows that places that have weapons readily available to civilians are safer, rather, it shows the exact opposite.
You may feel safer havign your conceiled gun permit, but realize it is tjust that, you FEEL safer, in fact you are not.
I again suggest reading up a bit on the numbers, the CIA factbook is a nice patriotic source for the Americans among you who say this is all just the bs from the anti-gun lobby.
I wouldn't count on a .32 ACP being anemic.
.32s killed more criminals than now with 9mm. Even a .22 is able to kill you.
.30-06 and .308 Winchester.
It's all about shot placement, actually.
The local police here, when armed with
OTOH, there are lots of people who survived hits by
stoled
it's "stolen" , not "stoled", u insensitive clod!
Tony Martin, as much as I sympathise with what he went through, didn't shoot a burglar in self-defence. He shot and killed a burglar who was running away from him in the back. Furthermore, throughout his trial he made a point of making it clear that he felt no remorse at killing him and all but said that he'd do the same thing again.
I don't think you'd find too many juries in the US or elsewhere that would have let him walk under those circumstances.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I'll just refer you to my earlier post.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
This may have been said, and it may be obvious, but use a non-branded backpack or bag. Many larger generic bags can fit a laptop, and if you're worried about protection, make a padded casing that fits your laptop, and then put that in said inconspicuous bag. You will then look like you're carrying lots of notes, books, or whatever.
Im a black belt in Tukong Musel TyKuanDo, and Fifth Do in Akido... I know 3 weapons very well, knife and club defense, and carry a 5.5 ft chain with an 3 oz steal ball at the end... when used right it forms a forcefield of spinning death arround me.
:)
Of course, if this is too much movement for you, you can always download Kung Fu into your brain
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
Honestly, I'm surpised nobody here has seen "Marathon Man." Real protection from muggers is a retractable blade concealed in the forearm's sleeve!
so it's ok to steal the 100mpg cars from the manufactuer's lot because they dont sell them separately?
personally i hate the riaa, and want single song purchases as much as i want to pick which cable channels i get.
i hate the analogy to a car because a car has a ton of value in most cases and songs have so little, but when it really comes down to it, whether you steal a penny or a hundred dollar bill, its still stealing. and millions of people stealing a penny from you is a lot of money. deserved or not, they have established rights to that penny. we need to change their rights, not steal because of them.
Did anyone else picture muggers stuck to this geek and unable to get away?
None of you have still answered my question - why is it ok for the Music Industry to push albums on you? Why? Just because they hide behind 200 year old legislation doesn't make them paragons of virtuosity! Just because it's the law doesn't make it gospel. Stupid laws weren't meant to be obeyed, it's really that simple, and their current set of laws are behind the times. In a democracy there are laws that make sense, and laws that don't. And when the majority finds a particular bunch to be stupid, they'll simply disobey. But in this case, despite the majority disobeying, the Music Industry isn't getting it. Gay Marriages are banned, but a whole section of people who found that to be stupid, went ahead with them anyway.
Now your next comment is going to be: "Oh so if the majority of this country condoned murder, they'd start disobeying the law against murder?" - Yes, and then that would force people to change the laws, or basically fight their case out in court justifying murder.
Finally, yes, what we're doing is stealing. It's stealing, because that's how the current law is defined. But only in America. There are other places with less stringent copyright laws, so basically one man's thief is another man's mp3-user. Try thinking out of the box for a change. These laws were written way back when. You think they foresaw p2p or the Net? New times demand new laws, and I'm not referring to the DMCA. That's just reinforcement of the status quo.
My Favourite Meme
There have been two attempts in my life to mug me. The first one was quickly solved when mugger #1 (of 2) took a nasty hit into his genital area, bending over and then getting kicked in the face. The second one resulted in some bruises for me, but that mugger was good for a hospital stay afterwards. I have found three things to work:
1. Look like you don't have a lot of valuables.
2. Refuse to be a victim. If you get attacked, fight back. Who guarantees that after your credit/debit card is stolen, they don't make sure you don't become a witness against them? The judge? The five or seven folks that got shot in a holdup of a fast-food joint in NY city some years back? Drink your purple Kool-Aid. Muggers positively hate to get hurt. They will choose their victims accordingly.
3. Avoid dangerous countries/places that put the criminal's rights above your own and ban guns and useful implements ontop of it. Namely the UK.
4. Enact gun-carrying laws. If the mugger has to play Russian roulette, he won't go robbing (or raping) any longer. Just look at the Florida or Kentucky crime stats.
5. 3 Strikes and you're in for 10 years extra. I'm not for life-long sentences, but if you have comitted your 3rd grave crime, ten years extra would probably straighten you out if that measure is coupled with some professional education so that once you get out of jail, you have some know-how and don't have to sink back into delinquency.
A large, dangerous dog isn't bad neither, but you can't have fido everywhere you go.
in favor of a sporty looking sidekick. Nobody runs away fast with an ass full of lead.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
"The UK has enacted a total gun ban, and consequently, violent crime rates have gone up."
All that can be said about the ban of handguns is that it had no effect on the level of violent crime. Not particularly surprising when most criminals don't register their guns with the police.
The increase in violent crime is not a consequence of the ban. The rate of legal gun ownership in the UK before the ban was negligible, far lower than 1%. To claim that the increase is therefore a consequence is specious and simply shows your ignorance of the UK.
Most of the violent and gun related crime is gang and drug related and could be solved overnight by legalising the selling and recreational use of drugs in licensed premises.
Deleted
that it is in fact more worrying to consider the types of people posting here than it is the 'muggers' out to get you?
;)
By the sound of it, everyone here either knows kung-fu, carries concealed weapons, has a shaved head or is built like a brick shithouse and fancies themselves 'a bit tasty'. It's a wonder anyone gets mugged at all when you take into account the hard-cases round these parts.
Either that or some people have been watching UFC/Matrix a couple times too many..
Just wanted to let you know.
yank tourist passing by who we can fleece for a bit of spare cash.
" In the UK, you are not allowed to own a gun, let alone carry one"
Hunting guns are most certainly allowed after you fill out the proper paperwork. Try to keep up. Thanks.
And our crime rates are still lower per captia than yours. As someone else replied, the other week a policeman was stabbed in the line of duty, protecting passers by from a suspect. It was front page news here for 24 hours.
This tells me two things,
- Events like this are rare enough that they can take over the media for a significant period
- The Police in this country do work to protect the people, no matter how cynical you are about their ability.
You would probably argue that if gun laws were looser, then a passer by would have probably shot him. However, if gun laws were looser, the suspect himself would have probably been carrying a gun, hence escalating the situation.
Personally, I don't like the feeling I get walking in areas where only the criminals have guns.
But you like the feeling you get walking in areas where everyone (criminals, honest people, kids et al) have guns ?
It is very impressive to note the social gap between countries. Here in my country, most criminals don't have guns. They don't need them. I've several friends that have been mugged, but never with a gun. Usually, they would be threatened by a large group of people. In the very worst case, there would be a knife, but this is extreme already.
Why's that ?
Well, you don't need guns to attack people if people don't carry guns themselves, right ? It'd be "overkill" and "illegal", whereas it is not illegal to walk in the city in large groups.
Now this does not solve the problem. People still get mugged. However, there are not more people getting mugged this way. Moreover, I much prefer this situation where there are no guns around at all. Maybe I can be mugged all the same, but at least I don't feel my life threatened. In the worst case, they beat the shit out of me, but there is no gun involved.
In other (supposedly american) replies, people have said that it's all in people's minds, that you are not physically more secure in, say, Paris, than you are in, say, New York. That you only think you are. These people have not understood that this is the whole point.
When people feel safe, they are less nervous, less violent, more secure. Life is better for everyone (even for the muggers?). And the hypothetical violence that might happen at times would not be lethal. People would be pissed off, not dead or wounded.
Guns leads to a violence spiral that make people think guns are needed. They are not. You can walk the street in most of the countries in the world without a gun and not risk being attacked by someone with a gun.
theefer
One option: Learn your favourite martial arts. I recommend Aikido or Hising-I and Pakua (the prerequesites of _real_ Tai Chi) Those are cool contrasts to the usual geek stuff and you'll be suprised about the inteligent people practicing and teaching the 'inner' martial arts such as those mentioned above.
I have an Aikido Dojo right around the corner since 6 weeks ago. Started training 3 weeks ago. Very cool. Always wanted to do that, now I finally am. Learn to be prepared to use your favourite martial arts technique in RL when troubles brewing.
Melee Weapon MA is cool too. Dobble stick fighting (Eskrima, Dan Insentos 'Eskrido', etc.) is especially effective in beating the crap out of anybody and anything with two rather short sticks which are easy to carry around on/with your usual baggage/backpack/whatever.
Bottom line: Get exercise and boost your self esteem. Be prepared but don't be paranoid.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
...and oh shit! It fried my laptop.
US has more crime because we have cool shit. No one wants to steal your goat at gun point. On a serious note, Compare violent crime rates with population and wealth(or lack of) density.
My girlfriend tells me about the "crazy harmonica guy" who rides the same train as she does coming back from work. (She's not really sure where he's going or why, but SHE is returning from work at least.) He sits down, or stands, as circumstances dictate, but as soon as he is settled in, he pulls out a harmonica...
and plays ONE NOTE. Polishes it, puts it away. Fifteen seconds later, he pulls it back out, plays two or three notes, looks thoughtful, and puts it away again. Repeat ad infinitum. At no point does he actually play a recognizable melody, or even more than a handful of notes, nor does he sound like he's practicing a particular technique, such as draw bends.
Nobody ever speaks to this guy, let alone gives him any trouble. If anyone looks him straight in the eyes, out comes the harmonica, and he plays his few notes as if he were laying a curse on the one looking at him.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
My first time ever in NYC. I went to that youth hostel advertised in my guide book, somewhere on Amsterdam Avenue. Got off at THE Amsterdam avenue stop, looked at the numbers on the buildings and decided to walk for it (a few hundred numbers? maybe a few thousand, don't remember but it didn't look like much at the time). Oh yeah, that was late at night. Must've looked like I belonged in there somehow (spanish Harlem), 'coz nothing bad happened to me... Eventhough, I was wearing the signs!!! bright blue and yellow backpack (heavy, full of clothes for a 10 day trip) passport, credit cards, etc etc... walked right passed some mean looking people i'm tellin ya... But I got away with it, somehow. Maybe I was looking so much like a potential victim that it wasn't even funny. So I got to the place eventually and god, did my feet hurt...
Oh yeah... I do come from a small village somewhere in the north of france ;-)
Slashdot has never had, nor will it ever need, an article on "How to Avoid Women".
The enemies of Democracy are
I suggest you do so indeed. the Netherlands is covered with what would be considered urban area for approx 1/3d, and the population density is a lot higher on average then that of the USA. Our standard of living is indeed a little bit lower then in the USA but only marginally.
So, in this specific case, the argument you make doesn't seem to apply really.
Also, when makign that argument, it would eb a good idea to consider that for as far as Europe is concerned, we have more people livign on a smaller area, so the population density argument only works when you are arguing that a lower population density results in more crime.
Additionally, when lookign within Europe, SPain has a lower population density and a lower standard of livign then the Netherlands. Criminals can easily cross the borders between states and go to a 'safer' place. Regardless, Spain has a much higher crime rate, and also a higher rate of violent crime then the rest of western EUrope.
Btw, I'm not arguing that less weapons automatically result in less violent crime, but the opposite argument seems to hold as little truth.
Weapons as part of daily life is a cultural thing in both the USA and SPain, and both happen to be relatively violent societies also.
Conclusion seems simple, it has all to do with culture, and nothign whatsoever with crime.
Then of course there is the just as valid soundign argument of needign weapons to fight a possible tyranic government..
First of all, I'll ask you, what good will your semi automatic assault riffle do against jetfighters and attack helis? Then, I suggest you take a look at what people needed to overthrow such governments, and specifically look at the following places:
India
Rumania
Russia
Poland
France
In all those places (and many more) revolutions took place to overthrow tyranic governments. In all those places those revolutions succeeded, and in none of those places people had a 'right to carry arms'.
That such a right was considered important at the time of foudning the USA is understandable, but reality has shown that the reasoning behind it is flawed by now.
Hold on,
The Met does have guns, in fact if I remember rightly they recently bought assault rifles from Germany to deal with terrorists.
Despite not having separation of church and state, we are a much less religious country.
your government is significantly more theocratic.
As a London dweller myself I find that just holding yourself as a 'bad man' keeps most of the muggers away. I live in Wembley which is a craphole and doing that has kept 80% of the twats away from me. The other lot were sporting for a punch up.
:)
When someone tries to mug me now, I just look at them with a confused face and say "Are you having a bubble" then lead on mentioning one of the big gangs family names around my area. Certainly scares the hell out of them, especially as one guy had his arm removed because he tried to mug a local gang family member.
Also invest in a kevlar biker jacket, I own a bike so I have to wear one if I dont want my skin ripped off. Someone attacked me and put a knife into my upper shoulder and because of the kevlar it did not go through. I then preceeded to run like the wind and I still have that knife to this day
My 20 pence worth
You know i think that the solution is radical political and economic reform. With full employment and or a social safety net the need to mug someone may not exist. With no need to mug someone you can wear all the flashy gear you want.
Cheers, ps first post.
This guy is in London and assmuning he doesn't work in Brixton at night he should be fine!
I carry a Powerbook, iPod and P900 pretty much everywhere I go in London on the tube etc and i would recommend the following:
1) Hide the earbuds (tick)
2) Get a sleeve for your laptop and place it in an anonymous backpack - Mandarina Duck, DaKine and Boblbee (all available from Selfridges i think) all make great ones which will support a 15" laptop with plenty of padding and with room for power cords etc.
3) Avoid obvious wallet bulges - keep your Oyster card in a loose pocket so you don't get out your wallet every time you get in or out of public transport.
4) Walk with your head held high and walk with purpose. People with confidence automatically appear taller, bigger and far less of a target than someone shuffling around staring at their moccasins....
and finally....
5) For god's sake don't wear a bluetooth headset everywhere you go...people like that deserve everything they get.
r
I have two typical suitcases. One is black, one is blue, very generic, very difficult to pick out.
I put a big band of tape around it as I drop it off. Then when I get my suitcase back I take it off. Almost nobody has a nice new black suitcase with a bright yellow stripe of tape running around it.
I wouldn't want to try to pull a gun during a mugging.
If you can carry a gun, and the mugger expects it, he'll be watching.
This then turns from a mugging to a fight for my gun.
Handgun ownership in the UK. I only know two people who own guns, and they keep them at shooting ranges. Only criminals will carry handguns around with them on the streets. So handgun ownership cannot be linked to street crime in the way you suggest.
:-)
That's why your figures are fairly random and don't support your opinion.
As for your link between low gun control and low crime rates, you're again supposing that there's no other factors there. It'd plausible that the truth is the other way around: the states with the highest crime rates have had to implement the toughest gun controls to try to bring them down. I don't know, and you're not giving me any evidence to suggest otherwise. Your "theory" is an idea that so far has nothing to back it up but circumstance
p.s. for someone who likes pointing out spelling errors in other people's posts, you'll appreciate me telling you that it's euphemism not euphamism.
They only give you something to fight back with afterwards.
If someone mugs you, and you try to shoot them while they are mugging you, you fight for your own gun (bad).
If you give them your wallet, then use your gun to mug them back they might fight you for your wallet. Don't know where you are, but shooting muggers might be deemed a bit excessive.
Pack some heat....
Get up!
a true geek uable to defend himself against the outside world would already have built one of these.
personally i have always found openly carrying a knife dripping in blood seems to help.
------
beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
Yeah, I covered that extensively in another post... thought I had at least mentioned it there. Black Talons are still JHP's, they just look and sound scarier. Kind of the EBR and other assault rifles phenomenon. :-)
http://www.allsafedefense.com/images/Bullets/Talon s&XT.jpg
Why would anyone carry all this stuff around with them in the first place? It might just be me, but isn't this a bit like a little kid dressing up in his spaceman suit before stepping off the front stoop to go play?
The cell phone? Sure, if it's locked. The rest of it? Get a life!
Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
I'm going to say this simply, hoping that you actually read it. You are shooting to save your skin. You are shooting to neutralize the threat. Your end goal is to neutralize that threat. If that just so happens to require killing them, or you end up killing them in the process, so be it. But if you pull that gun out with the intention to KILL, and not to stop the attack, you will be a murderer in the jury's view. It's not something I'm making up, and it's a very subtle difference. I am not saying you shouldn't kill someone in self defense. I'm saying that should not be your ultimate goal. And EVERY court in this country will agree with me.
THIS is why /. is really not about chicks. You guys really don't know shit about them.
Disclaimer: I do have a 5-year-old. And a wife.
My biggest "chick-magnet" time was when my boy was 6mo-1yo. You carry him around in the stroller and the Big Diaper Bag and the Fischer-price toys and ta-da: they flock towards you. It's embarassing, really.
My hunch is that is shows something about your reproductive skills, and this is the reason you should run from them (women that flock towards baby-bearing-fathers) as you would run from the plague: they (subconsiously at least) want to reproduce and see (hmmm, here is a loving father like I would like my offspring to have) and if you forget your protection it's too easy for them to say "oops, no problems, it's not like I can get preggie" ehehe.
I've found that being a 5'10 guy, weighing in at 215lbs, with a decent build works quite well. I carry my laptop and junk in an aluminum crash case, and carry it with ease. A person getting close enough to me to take my wallet, or other junk is also close enough to be hit it this weapon, which I'm sure would do some serious damage if connecting with a face... I was a wrestler in HS, weight trained in college, and have been studying kung fu since then. I was mugged once while in college, guy walked up flashed a knife at me and said to hand over my wallet. I did, however my hand containing said wallet connected with his nose, and he left quickly, and didn't bother with my offerings. On a side note, keep only a little cash in your wallet. If you are carrying a lot of cash, spread it out between your pockets. Then if you get mugged, you pull out your wallet and hand over a couple bills without loosing everything you haveon you.
consider a cab if you don't feel comfortable walking around with your favorite 'pro-sumer' items. I've never had to use my .40 Smurf 'n' Wessun or howitzer or *anything* on a taxi driver! it's crazy!
People can't make or buy "Slap-jacks", "Black-Jacks", or "Coshes"? Guns are noisy. Bludgeons and knives are quiet, quieter than a victim's shrieks. Only pussies and gangster kids rely on guns. I've read Dickens, I know guns aren't the main threat.
The UK has watched too many "Dirty Harry" sets. Same thing in the US. Bic pens are lethal weapons of death. You just gotta be aware of what's going on around you, where ever you are.
The anesthetic gas? What about the silent but deadly gas?
(Japanese tend to be shorter than me, especially a few hundred years ago :)
:)
Actually, Japanese men (especially the samurai classes, who could afford better food) were on average taller two hundred years ago than they were twenty years ago. Musashi Miyamoto, for example, was over 6' tall (Although that was more like 400 years ago). The average height of Japanese men diminished greatly during the late 19th century, a development which continued into the 1950's. Today, the average height among Japanese 20 year old men is 5'8".
Not that it matters to your point, though
I live in Scotland, a part of the UK. I fully realise that the Metropolitan Police can carry guns.
America is significantly more religious than the UK, which is partly the point I was trying to make. GWB's Good vs Evil tirades would probably be laughed out of office here (I hope).
Whilst it probably would have been funnier if I'd chosen a town in Bible-belt America it would have required more research on my part. I didn't feel a +1 Funny attempt on Slashdot at 2am merited the research required.
Feel free to rewrite the abobve sketch if you like. I just found it funny, that's all.
Ithika.
the layman's guide to computer science
You should have a helmet mounted video camera permanently streaming video over a wireless network to a tivo (or home made tivo) which you can submit as evidence when you make your police complaint! Actually, make that TWO video cameras (one pointed forward and one pointed behind you!)
I live in Arizona in the US. Arizona allows anyone who is not a felon to carry a handgun as long as it is visible. Permits that allow carrying concealed firearms can be applied for. Phoenix is the fifth largest city in North America by population. I invite anyone to look at the crime stats on other major metropolitan areas and compare them to Phoenix. Can it really be a coincidence that those areas with the tightest gun control laws (Washington D.C. and New York) have the highest violent crime rates? I know this won't help the denizens of London where most of the constabulary don't even carry firearms but...
Sorry, I keep forgetting to add the tongue-in-cheek emoticon to the bottom of my posts...
You simply can't talk about self defense without ending in an discussion about firearms as long as americans are involved...
The people of the UK are very grateful what your (great) grandparents did. They are very grateful that your country saw fit to allow itself to be attacked by Japan and have war declared on it by Nazi Germany. If it had not been for those two actions, the USA would have continued to simply make money out of both sides like I understand GWBs family is accused of doing.
Cynicism aside, the whole world was involved in that war for their own benefits. The USA did not join in out of altruism. It is wonderful that they did and the world is grateful. I am not responsible for the actions of 60 years ago, neither are you. This means that we cannot take credit for them either.
I face facts, I have been outside my country. I have spent time in Africa and the middle east and other places. The UK is a small country and the USA is a big one. China is even bigger - so what? I don't want to live there either. If you think size is important, check your spam. It will contain something for you.
"poorly engineered cars"? I am not too keen on what I see of US cars. I will stick to something with decent suspension, build standards amd fuel consumption - probably French or Japanese.
"time has passed" and what makes you think your time will ever come? The only thing the world wants from the USA are films. Very few people want your culture. Just to be left alone by your Pres.
"accent" just like the USA, there is more than one accent here. Perhaps you are thinking of what used to be called 'Received Pronunciation'. That was never any more a British accent than Jimmy Carter was the source of the real US one.
bad teeth? It's the result of not having enough therapists. See? That's why the US thinks it has good teeth. Their analysts have persuaded them that teeth are what matters.
GATSOs? Our police use GATSOs a lot. Yours use automatic weapons a lot. I prefer GATSOs anyday!
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Yea, best way to carry your stuff, is the SCOTTeVEST, but then again I am slightly biased. But for an independent opinion, check out August edition of Handheld Computing, which says "best of all, these trim garments don't bulge noticeably even when loaded down. ... [I]t actually works remarkably well. Most importantly, wearing your stuff in a SCOTTeVEST instead of hauling it around in a case doesn not announce your tech fetish to the world, unless you want to of course."
Also, check out msn last week at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4893314 which calls the SeV one of the ten must have gadgets for business travelers.
Scott
Scott Jordan, CEO www.scottevest.com
Thanks to a combination of telecommuting, online banking, and NetGrocer, I never have to worry about muggers again.
(Or melanoma... Or spy satellites... Or STDs.)
Best way to carry your stuff, is the SCOTTeVEST, but then again I am slightly biased. But for an independent opinion, check out August edition of Handheld Computing, which says "best of all, these trim garments don't bulge noticeably even when loaded down. ... [I]t actually works remarkably well. Most importantly, wearing your stuff in a SCOTTeVEST instead of hauling it around in a case doesn not announce your tech fetish to the world, unless you want to of course." Also, check out msn last week at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4893314 which calls the SeV one of the ten must have gadgets for business travelers. Scott
Scott Jordan, CEO www.scottevest.com
Scott Jordan, CEO www.scottevest.com
a T-shirt with the writing.
I Have AIDS.
Attach a flywheel to a massive capacitor and after getting the flywheel up to speed it should be able to rapidly convert kinetic energy into stored charge in the capacitor. Then you can discharge the capacitor through some kind of metal wand (with insulated handle) into the mugger's now-extra-crispy corpse.
Move to one of many US states. Get a permit, carry a Desert Eagle Mark XIX, make if obvious. If you make it obvious, that says to them, Ok, I might get a round off, but if he hits me with that hand-cannon, it WILL turn me inside out! ;-)
...the guy stole your knife.
Staying with a bad relationship makes you a "darwin target" and trying to find another relationship makes you a "cheating bitch"?
OK, I guess I have to flesh it out a bit. The girl crawled back to a man who sent her to the hospital multiple times until he went overboard one night and took a baseball bat to her skull. The other gun violence I've seen is a result of unstable and violent men being abused (yes, cheating is abusive) by their SOs.
Staying in a bad relationship is mildly stupid, but staying in an abusive one is suicide. And there are better ways of leaving someone (especially someone who has a propensity for violence) than sleeping with their friends.
In both of those last two cases, I think it's clearly the gunholder's fault, and they should be held responsible, but I consider it the equivalent of walking out into a crosswalk in front of a speeding truck, you're an idiot for it even though they're the ones breaking the law.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
> Interestingly, Spain follows a lot closer the rules as they are in the USA
Which rules do you mean? Which part of Spain have you been to? Mexico? Colombia? You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Just quit smoking *that*.
Here in Canada I've been told it is shoot-to-kill. The reason being that if a police officer even draws their gun, they have to go through about 5 hours of paperwork and meetings to explain why they thought their life or somebody else's life was in immediate danger.
Now the point is... if you're only allowed to draw your gun when somebody's life is in danger, how on earth could you argue that shooting some guy in the leg was appropriate?
I think concealed weapons are generally a bad idea... it goes along the lines of "don't bring a knife to a fist fight... you might get yourself killed." If the thief finds out you have a gun, the thief might think their life is in danger... you might have no choice but to draw that gun.
Sorry, I had a sense of humour failure. I get your joke, just failed to spot it at the time.
WARNING: SENSE OF HUMOUR NOT FOUND
You'd be amazed at how much a cloak can hide. If someone came up behind you, all they'd see is cloth. If you're standing still, you're not giving away that you're wearing armour. [It's the jingling that typically does it -- some people will weave leather cords through chainmail to help silence it, but if you cover it, belt it, and walk slowly, it's not too noticable in the first place.] Some armour, like ringmail, or boiled leather doesn't make a sound, if it's made well, and you've ensured you don't have metal-on-metal contact while walking about.
The giveaway that someone is a cloak is wearing chainmail is that they'll flex their shoulders funny -- you lift up, flex your shoulders, and come back down quick -- it'll redistribute the weight or the armour across your shoulders.
...that's what happens when your police force starts a lucrative donut franchise.
Last I checked, I am allowed to carry around a knife that is clearly intended as a weaon in SPain, while I'm not in say the Netherlands. This is the country of Spain on the continent of EUrope, ha nothign to do with Mexico or Columbia really.
In the countryside, I can walk around with a gun legally there as well, while I cannot without lots of paperwork and only within limited boundaries in the Netherlands for example.
Is it the same as in the USA? definitely not, and if you would have cared to read, and for example go read the CIA factbook on things like crime rate, you may see that the rest of what I said is true as well according to them at least.
We are talking about a country the size of Conn.
Then consider the history, the Dutch are a bunch of merchants and farmers. Now don't get upset, I myself am proud to be Dutch, and most of my family are midwestern farmers.
Now the Spanish have a much more varied profession and a lot more land mass. I would maintain that the Netherlands is too small to be statistically valid. Then there is a a matter of does culture give rise to laws or does laws give rise to culture.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
Write 'See I.D.' on the signiture panel of your credit and debit cards. This functions both as a security measure and as a social experiment.
First, cashiers are more likely to ask you for your ID when they see the phrase in front of them. Accordingly, someone who is not you will have a hard time using your plastic.
Second, if you want to see just how easy it is to spend someone else's money, keep track of how often cashiers actually ask you for your ID after inspecting your card. From my own experience, it is not an encouraging amount!
I am amazed that you are the only one mentioning running away. It has saved me several times. It is often the most effective and least damaging (to you both) solution, especially if you are not too far away from main street or something like that. Also crying "help" while running away may get some people interesed and the mugger a bit confused. Of course it really depends where you are, what is the attitude of other people to the whole affair. If I see 2 people just talking on the street, I do nothing. If one of them yells "help!" I would call the police from a safe distance.
Everything should be decorated with unique identify marks. It could be your name, a simple pattern, anything as long as it easy to describe to someone else and is indelible. It may not stop the mugging but it will stop the muggers from fencing what they stole and give you a chance of getting the equipment back. The marking also do a good job of stopping equipment from growing legs and walking away.
> Then consider the history, the Dutch are a bunch of merchants and farmers. Now don't get upset, I myself am proud to be Dutch, and most of my family are midwestern farmers.
While generally true, the Dutch do happen to have kicked out the Spainiards while they happened to be contending the sovereignity of the Netherlands.. but generally, I agree, and all I wanted to say is that the simple reasoning of arming a population to stop crime is simply not working, it is more like there is a relation between level of violence in general and amount of weapons floating around in society, but you can quite debate which causes which.
You could for that matter expand the statistics to include northwest europe (which has a variety of arms control laws, but generally don't allow weapons on the street and don't give out concealed gun permits to civilians, and the statistics seem to still hold.
Ah, and theres always the nice, but little sayign bit of my own experience. While I travel the part of Europe between Greece in the south, Sweden in the north, the UK in the west, and eastern Germany in the east quite a lot, I have never once worried about someone pointing a gun at me, and it never happened. Worried about someone carryign a knife? at times, yes.
While having lived for less then 6 months in Austin, Texas, I got a gun pointed at me once by a mugger, and saw the same happen 2 more times but not involving myself. Of course no statistics there of any value, but it does brign the argument across in a very individual way I can tell you.
I've been in some of the dirtholes of the US. The Mission in San Fran after midnight, down N street in DC getting lost after a show at the old 930, Alphabet city in NYC (best noodle shops), Hollywood (lived there), The Combat Zone (okay, that's not so bad anymore) and I've never been close to mugged. The worst is some guy tried to pick me up off the street.
The secret? Be aware of what's going on around you, who's around you and walk with confidence.
Toys aren't what attract a mugger. It's ease of target. Plus toys aren't what a mugger really wants most of the time unless you have something they really want. It's cash. Your $2k laptop is worth much less hot. Cash is always worth cash.
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect
Hmm.. Lower crime in the Netherlands than the US.
Don't you guys allow the smoking of pot too?
Last time I was stoned, I didn't really feel like commiting a crime, certainly not a violent one.
Perhaps there is a correlation.
> Don't you guys allow the smoking of pot too?
We indeed don't think its generally illegal to do to your own body what you feel like doing.. provided you are over 18.
Theres some limits to that, but the general idea is quite there in practise also.
After the UK got one of the most strict gun laws in the world (because of the rushed reactions to the Dunblane masscacre), violent crime actually increased.
And the country with the most lenient gun laws is not Spain, not even the US, but Switzerland, where because of the militia structure of the army, people are required to have their assault rifle (and this is not a civil, single-shot version) in their homes after the basic military service.
Here in Germany, they like to talk about the famous "amerikanischen Verhaeltnisse" (American circumstances) when trying to explain their strict gun laws that are clearly rooted in the Nazis's attempts to restrict ownership and also in the emergency laws established by the occupants after the war.
But they never talk about Switzerland or the nordic countries where there is a gun in most homes because of hunting, because this would not serve their scare tactics.
I've heard similar from a friend about an indivual who was dressed in mail for an SCA meet or something similar. Walked into a 7-11 and grabbed some munchies, while the teller and other customer are looking a bit nervous. Walks up to make his order, and feels a bump from the guy beside him. Guy beside him screams, and runs out the door.
The tell is like "That's weird, that guy was holding the place up. Give me a moment while I call the cops." So the cops come, and ask buddy about the object stuck in his side. He's was a little amazed to find a knife which had been jabbed into his side, but stuck in the armour without coming near flesh.
I think chainmail should become standard equipment for late-night Sev drop-ins.
As soon as the muggers see what weird crap you're into they'll probably run away and leave their own wallets to appease you...
I was in Kenya a few years ago.
My brother-in-law, who loves living in Africa, insisted we go out at night. He drove us around in his rattle-trap volvo... and told me that if our car broke down in the middle of the night, we would be dead.
While I was there, the post office was raided. A tourist (who was mailing post cards just prior to returning home), was mugged in the post office. He lost his luggage and $$$. 6 men with spears mugged him. To give you a bit of background, downtown Nairobi has about 4 blocks of standard american downtown, surrounded by shorterer poorer structures. They disappeared without a trace... Oh, legally, the only people allowed to carry spears are the Maasai. (They kill lions with them, you aren't a man (in Maasai culture) until you kill your first lion).
My sis told me how proud she was of Kenyans, "They recycle everything!". They do that, because they have so little. The only really garbage is citrus rinds.
I tried to leave the maid a $7.50 US tip for the month I stayed there, and they wouldn't let me do it. That is how much they PAID her for the month. I thought she was 20-something, she was 40-something. She has 3 kids that HER maid is looking after...out of HER salary.
So, yah, believe that you will be killed for the contents of your wallet and clothes. What you carry on you, well, could be a YEAR's income for the muggers.
One other thing: the beggars. Beggars in Kenya, an islamic country, are out in force on Fridays. Fridays are the traditional day of prayer, and giving alms to the poor is a pious act. Many of them are lepers who have been repeatedly beaten by the police...who are trying to deter their presence...scares the tourists to see beggars with no hands or feet begging for money.
Greed, need and opportunity are the three elements to crime. Hmmm...I --think-- I see all three readily available in night-time Nairobi.
I'm so sick of holier than thou shit from Nederlanders - I've walked the streets of some of the most notorious cities out there.. from Oakland to Prague to Rio, and I found Amsterdam and London to be the most troublesome of all. You can't walk more than 30 meters in Amsterdam Centrum w/o having 4 jackasses following you and trying to back you into a corner to sell you drugs or steal your bike. You want to go to a bar in London, you better be ready for some drunk xenophobe to start some shit since you don't come from their island. At least people in GB will admit that they have issues, and that they're trying to deal with them - unlike the Dutch who are convinced all of their problems are due to the Marokkanen and the Turks.
Oh yeah, let's see - how many assassinations have their been in the EU in the last 25 months? Fucking hypocrits. I'd like to know what Pim Fortuyn thought of your CIA world factbook statistics as he lay there dying on the streets of Amsterdam. Rot op met je Nederlandse logica klootzak.
BTW, I'm Norwegian - I fear the day that the Dutch ignorance, apathy and racism infects our land like it already has that of Danmark and Belgium.
"most of them aren't to bright"
Oh, right, citizens don't have that right anymore.
=-Incidentely (check the CIA world fact book on it if you like) we also have:
1. less people killed in general
2. less people killed by police use of violence
3. less policemen killed by violence
4. less robbery with use of violence
5. lower crime rate in general then the USA.-=
What is the pot smoker to drunk ratio there? I bet the US has more alcholics as well.
And it's also legal to operate an auto after smoking pot - there is no intoxication rating for someone smoking pot for the police to use. So apparently you don't mind what you do to other people's bodies either.
*lol*
;P
First of all, the Dutch have their own set of problems, so does everyone for that matter. Also I didn't say that violent crime doesn't happen here. For the rest, I've been in Norway quite a few times, and racism is no stranger there, nor is it overhere for that matter.
The fact that the killing of Pim Fortyn made the news in the way it did is partially because it was the first political asssassination (unless you take the nazi occupation during the 2nd world war into account) in a few centuries here. Bad thing? definitely, highly exceptional? also quite definitely. Oh and if you want to refer to his death, at least get your facts straight, he was killed in a small city called Hilversum (actually considered a village by many), not in Amsterdam. Assassinations do happen in Amsterdam however, and way too often. They happen between criminals, and while I'd rather do without them alltogether, it kinda does solve a problem if they take care of themselves
What mr Fortuyn did, and what you seem to be echoing, is an old trick used by many a 'popular' dictator also, "let people feel so they don't think". You call on fears without providing any facts for them. mr. Fortuyn may have done so to call attention for real problems, and he managed in that, but its not something to play with, it stirs up forces that few have been able to control judging from past evidence.
If you'd have read my posts a little better (but since you can't bother to logon or such, I wonder if you can bother to read the discussion a bit better before replying) you might have found that I simply object to the reasoning that getting yourself armed is gonna solve the problem of robbery, it generally just makes the thing more likely to turn violent, and if you don't agree with the example I use, fine, but come up with something better then some name calling.
There is a connection between poverty and crime. In many cases, mugging people is a rational choice (in economic sense, that is!).
And if you still get mugged, give all you have.
The pot smokers are mostly foreigners from my experience.
> I bet the US has more alcholics as well.Um, yeah, the US population is 18 times that of The Netherlands - of course there will be more alcholics. However, the per capita ratio of alcholics in The Netherlands would be higher I suspect - long, dark winters and rainy year-round would make anyone turn into an alcoholic... in fact, I think most of my friends would be considered alcoholics if they weren't Dutch, but here it is normal to drink a lot so it is probably hard to diagnose.
Uhm no, it's not. THat there is a problem proving it in many cases doesn't make it legal.
This just begs for a response. 'Everywhere that I know' happens to also include that part of the world thats not inside the USA (yet) ?
Yes. I'm an aussie that has travelled extensively, and lived in both the US and UK. Courtesy of various international motorcycle lists that I frequent I know (as much as one can on some of these lists) quite a few policemen. I could easily count at least a dozen in different countries as being friends - guys I've ridden with or crashed at their place when travelling etc.
Note your third paragraph supports exactly what I said - the Dutch police are taught StK.
icluding the part where I happen to live (the Netherlands), police is taught to shoot to kill
By your own words they are taught this. That's all I'm talking about - when the weapon is drawn and they are aiming it at someone, they are taught to kill with it, not to disarm, not to injure. I'm not talking about any point prior to drawing the weapon and the finger being squeezed on the trigger, just the point after that. The point that a weapon is drawn is different by country, but after that point, the training is all the same - for a very good reason.
Life is complete only for brief intervals in between toys or projects -- John Dalton
Lift weights.
Carry less stuff.
Never be drunk or preoccupied in public.
Traverse all NEW routes ahead of time at least once (never carry valuables someplace you have never been).
Travel with buddies.
Have a fake valuable to hand over (throw down!) while you run off.
Always have a plan.
Never show fear.
Carry a weapon (loud noise maker, pepper spray, knife, roll of quarters, SOMETHING).
Use a walking stick - heavy, solid - e.g. oak.
Be prepared.
If it is unsigned you will be liable for any unathorized purchases made with it.
So sign it and then write Check ID or whatever over the sig.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
They are taught how to shoot to kill, yes. They are also taught to shoot to stop a person before shooting to kill a person, and have a lot of extra explaining to do if they don't manage. So no, drawing a gun and shooting is in many cases not done to kill but to incapacitate a person.
Muggers will cluster in that in-between zone.
I've been told once that most muggings are by opportunist transients... guys who just happen to be passing through and see an easy target.
So one day, you might be walking down a sunny, friendly street and you'll realize that while the kid's birthday party down the road went into the house... you're all alone with that strange person who happens to be walking towards you on the sidewalk.
About the S.O. plan, it's a good point, I always figured my girlfriend had more sense. There was this one time we were in a European city where we didn't speak the language, we were just out for a walk at night, but we were in the old city. We took a couple wrong turns and wound up on some residential streets I didn't partiuclarly like.
She said "let's go this way"... I replied, "I'd rather not, let's just go left"... to which she said "but we've already been that way"... finally I said... "we're alone at night in a strange city, speaking English with a North American accent, and you want to go down a graffiti'd unlit alley just outside the tourist district? No, let's get back to the main strip."
Fortunately nobody was in earshot, otherwise I'd have to weigh the odds of us two debating in the streets against just walking down the dark alley so as to not look like a victim.
Later I reminded her that since we can barely speak the language.. we can't tell the difference between "do you want to buy some crack" and "I'll cut you to ribbons"
My rough guidelines. 1. try not to look like a tourist or victim. 2. Unless absolutely necessary, never carry anything you'd hesitate to hand to a mugger... and if you must carry something, carry it separately from your valuables. 3. if you're in a place where you don't speak the language or have a distinct accent, avoid responding verbally to anyone asking for anything.
Point #2 covers the geek thing. If you can't afford to lose your notebook computer/ipod/whaveever, then you probably shouldn't be carrying it with you.
Oh, and travelling by car... never put anything in your trunk unless you're just about to move the car... and if it is really valuable, carry it with you.
Muggers are looking for an easy target. Don't be one.
Knives and guns have deterrence value, but do you really want to get into a knife fight or a gunfight? No thanks.
If you're concerned about crime, honestly, an attack trained dog works quite well (Hard to take it work with you, or on the subway, etc.).
Pro:
One: Oddly enough, a lot of criminals who are not afraid of being shot or stabbed have serious reservations against being bitten. Must be the mouth full of sharp teeth and intimidating appearance.
Two: Unlike a knife or a gun, it's next to impossible for a criminal to take the dog and use it against you. Really.
Con:
One: Insurance. Having an attack trained dog can prevent you from having home owners insurance due to liability concerns. Ditto for certain breeds. Shop around for an insurance provider that doesn't descriminate.
Two: Lawsuits. Having an attack trained dog can give you more grief than shooting the bastard if the dog is used to defend yourself. Best not to admit that the dog is attack trained (train it yourself or pay for training in cash). Memorize the following: "The dog was defending me against a perceived threat. Who knew that Fluffy, my loving Rottweiler, would chew his nuts off?"
The best bet is to not look like a victim. The dog is great deterence, though. Nasty looking folks part like the Red Sea when my wife and I are walking with our Doberman and Rottweiler. Friendliest dogs you would ever meet, but they don't know that.
No, you didn't say that - good for you. But you were pointing your finger at others, and people who live in glass houses should not throw stones mate. Nederlanders tend to forget about their storied history, and take the high moral ground when it suits their purposes - it is this blatant and consistent hypocrisy that I was pointing out in my post, nothing more.
The fact that the killing of Pim Fortyn made the news in the way it did is partially because it was the first political asssassination (unless you take the nazi occupation during the 2nd world war into account) in a few centuries here.Pim's murder was indeed an exception, not the rule thus far in the last 50 years or so. Why do you want to leave out the 2nd world war though? I mean, damn, Germany was a fine neighbour for most of the 20th century - in fact, they were practically benevolent if you don't count the 1st and 2nd wars. Selective history can, at times, be worse than incorrect history mijn vriend. Back to the point though, I was merely using Pim's assassination to illustrate that terribly violent murders happen regardless of culture and legislation, which is what you seem to be arguing.
Oh and if you want to refer to his death, at least get your facts straight, he was killed in a small city called Hilversum (actually considered a village by many), not in Amsterdam.People who have no ground on which to stand during a debate will find anything they can to divert attention from the issue at hand. You are right, Pim was murdered in Hilversum (which is basically a suburb of Amsterdam) - to be quite frank I was thinking it was Baarn while I was writing to you.
You call on fears without providing any facts for them.My bad - I was reading De Telegraaf a few months back where they said that there were 80.000 stolen bikes per year in NL - you are welcome to look up that number yourself if you think I exaggerate. As far as muggings go, I have no stats for you, sorry. I only have second-hand experience as it is not uncommon for my friends to complain about having been mugged while in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, or Den Haag. This is beside the point though.
If you'd have read my posts a little better [...] you might have found that I simply object to the reasoning that getting yourself armed is gonna solve the problem of robbery, it generally just makes the thing more likely to turn violent...I agree with you fully actually. My point is, again, that the Dutch tend to forget their own problems, and are quick to point out the problems of others. You guys would do well to take care of your own house before pointing out the flaws of others, just as most other countries should - you guys just need a reminder since you tend to yell so loud and so often.
Interestingly, Spain follows a lot closer the rules as they are in the USA, and also turns out having by far the highest rate of violent robberies and people gettign killed by violence of all of western EUrope (actually, only Poland and some parts of eastern EUrope come close to it, and don't surpass it yet)Would you care to substantiate this claim?
...flame bait. To whom? Slashdot's ultra-left wingnuts?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_tot_cri_ca p
Country Description Amount
1. Dominica 112.79 per 1000 people
2. New Zealand 108.12 per 1000 people
3. Finland 102.15 per 1000 people
4. Denmark 93.64 per 1000 people
5. Chile 90.00 per 1000 people
6. United Kingdom 86.04 per 1000 people
7. Montserrat 83.49 per 1000 people
8. United States 81.55 per 1000 people
> Why do you want to leave out the 2nd world war though? I mean, damn, Germany was a fine neighbour for most of the 20th century - in fact, they were practically benevolent if you don't count the 1st and 2nd wars.
Because I regard being at war as an exceptional situation which does justify forms of violence that should normally not be tollerated?
I am not forgetting that bit of history, but see it as a time during which special conditions were in place?
Doing otherwise would kinda be lookign at US history and judging the chance you have on dying to a bullet from the civil war in part (longer ago, but very relecant for the history of the country)
> I was merely using Pim's assassination to illustrate that terribly violent murders happen regardless of culture and legislation, which is what you seem to be arguing.
No, I was arguing they happen less often in a society that tends to not tollerate weapons on the streets.
I completely agree with your point that it happens everywhere. I take that as a given, and now want to have it happen as little as possible.
> You guys would do well to take care of your own house before pointing out the flaws of others,
Hmm, we seem to have a better working solution for some things, others have better working solutions for other things. It helps telling eachother about those, saves lots of re-inventing the wheel and such.
As much as there may be some open neo-nazism in parts of scandinavia, it also seems society has a lot more effective way of rendering it powerless then quite a few other parts of Europe. Its something we should definitely be interested in for example.
> Would you care to substantiate this claim?
That claim is according to the CIA world factbook, that doesn't make it true of course. That said, SPain has an alltogether more violent history when looking at modern times.
Oh, thanks for the reply, I appreciate actual discussion.
However, even though I believe in the right to own guns, the statistics are probably misleading. US cities with high crime rates try to solve crime problems by outlawing or restricting guns. This only makes matters worse, because criminals don't obey gun laws. All it does is disarm the victims. But these were generally high crime areas before the gun restrictions. It seems likely that high crime areas ban guns, and less true that banning guns causes high crime rates. The high crime rates generally existed in those US cities before guns were banned. But it is true that crime rates increased in US cities where guns were banned. If you were considering a career as a mugger or burglar, wouldn't you appreciate knowing your victims would be unarmed?
The comment that a concealed weapon discovered by a mugger might cause the mugger to feel threatened and therefore more likely to act in a violent manner totally misses the point. If you think carrying a handgun will somehow bestow magical protective powers, please do not carry one. You will only supply guns to criminals. My personal solution to urban violence is to live in one of the areas that has a low crime rate. It's also an area with very reasonable gun laws. I don't carry a gun. But if I ever felt threatened enough to carry my 10 mm Glock, a mugger can feel as threatened as he likes, because he'll become aware of the fact that his victim is armed about a second before he receives two projectiles in the center of his mass, each 180 grains, with 700 foot pounds of energy.
I've been a vegan for over 20 years out of respect for all living things. But if you threaten my life or that of someone I love, you're dead as fried chicken.
I can't believe people accept the myth that the police will protect you. It flies in the face of all the facts. But it does fit nicely with our society's increasing need for specialization. We are increasingly hiring people to do everything we need done. There are fundamental aspects of our lives that we cannot and should not defer to others. Personal protection is one good example.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
That relation nowhere shows that places that have weapons readily available to civilians are safer, rather, it shows the exact opposite.
Switzerland?
Swish! Two points!
> Switzerland?
Hmm, good point. Exception to prove the rule? Obviously they have a decent way of dealing with it (and some help of conditions)
Ahah - your comments about the 2nd world war confused me until I realized that you were equating assassination with murder. Assassination is defined just a beetje different from murder; assassination is typically defined as a political murder. This is why we say that Mr. Fortuyn was *assassinated* instead of saying he was murdered.
I don't know if there is an equivalent in Nederlands (maybe 'vermoorden' as apposed to 'moorden'?) - In Norwegian it is 'snikmorder' (sneaky murderer) as apposed to 'morder', but we usually use 'assassin' like most other languages.
Here's an English definition in case you're curious.
> They're missing the rather obvious point that criminals don't obey gun laws and it isn't possible to make guns disappear by legislation. Even if it was possible, criminals would simply use other weapons.
Robbery happens, but in a society where you can reasonably expect a person to carry a weapon, there are 2 options from the point of view of the robber:
- victim doesn't seem to defend themselves.. easier pray.
- victim may carry a weapon and looks like soemoen who might use it.. worse pray, and when going for it anyway, better make sure I'm first to kill.
In a society that generally doesn't allow weapons, criminals still have them, but are a lot less likely to use them because it all of a sudden turns robbery into something that will get a lot more fanatical response and heavier punnishment.
You are reasoning from a different culture where weapons and esp. guns have been a part of the culture for as logn as the country exists, and have served a good purpose in many different toles. There are way more guns out there, and the likelyhood of someone having one is a lot higher. That creates a different set of conditions and if you start controlling guns in such an environment, you are very likely goign to see criminals still having and using them, while law abiding citizens wont have them.. and it will take quite a while before havign managed to also make it difficult enough for criminals to use them (as opposed to possessing them).
For what I can see, you are making the point that cities with strict gun controlls have generally a higher crimerate in the USA. Lets just assume this is true (I do not know, but it sounds likely), the questions remain, are the two actually related directly, and if so, what is cause and what is effect here.
While walking, or for that matter cycling, I prefer to be tuned-into my surroundings.
:-)
You can play the music at a low enough volume that you can still be aware of what's going on around you. I like to wear earphones while walking around San Francisco because it lets me easily ignore panhandlers and other assorted freaks by pretending I can't hear them when they ask for money. iPod + shades = my own world with no intrusions. This greatly simplifies my commute, as everyone who would otherwise bother me leaves me alone. I've heard this referred to online as coccooning.
Maybe the submitter could use a variation of this to solve his problem.
Uhm, if you can't enforce it then it is for all intents and purposes legal. Besides that, I've been pulled over baked off my ass in Alkmaar and all the cops did was ask me to go for a walk for a while to sobre up... they didn't even take my stash. In fact, in Holland it's not entirely *legal* to grow or sell pot - the laws vary greatly amongst the municipalities, but even in Amsterdam most coffee shops are breaking one law or another by growing and/or importing their pot/hash; the laws are simply not enforced to the full extent that they could be. What Holland does not have is 'common law' (i think that's what it's called) like what you see in England - if they did then selling/growing/importing pot in all of Holland would be entirely legal at this point.
I think the legal limit is 5 plants per person per house - and I think this only includes rent/mortgage paying persons - coffee shops and individuals consistently have more than this, but very rarely do you see anything done about it; hence the misperception that pot is "legal" in Holland.
> hence the misperception that pot is "legal" in Holland
That is the rigth way of stating it indeed.
The idea is to only enforce the law there where an actual problem exists, that concept is at times difficult to explain, but it works quite well in specific cases where you don't want to control something, only its excesses.
Yeah right! And the sun comes up because all those alarm clocks ring in the morning...
It's true. The areas of the US with the highest crime rates have the most restrictive gun laws. Crime (both violent and nonviolent) have been declining in the US for the last nine years, despite appearances in the news media.
As I said, I think the relationship is as follows:
Crime increases.
Citizens advocate gun control believing it will reduce criminals' access to guns.
Crime increases further because all victims are now unarmed.
I don't believe gun control causes crime by itself. I think crime is a social phenomenon with many interdependent causes. But in a high crime area, disarming the noncriminals only makes matters worse for society. Outlawing guns allows criminals to operate without concern for which of the potential victims might be armed. So even if you don't carry a gun in either case, you are still safer being unarmed in a society that allows handguns to be carried for defense.
Guns have prevented a lot of crime, but these situations are non-events because a crime didn't occur. They are therefore not reported. Nobody records non-crimes. There is no reliable statistical information for crimes prevented, so this important fact about gun ownership usually isn't considered when enacting anti-gun laws.
For Americans, the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution recognizes the right to bear arms. This is an integral portion of the document that is the basis for our government and legal system for a good reason. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is in no way ambiguous or open to alternative interpretations, again for a very good reason. I believe it applies as much today as it did when it was written 227 years ago.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
> I believe it applies as much today as it did when it was written 227 years ago.
;P
I am not saying it is unimportant when seen in the light of US culture. The asker of the original question however lives in the UK, not the USA. There it would be better to apply the local culture also
i live in chicago and i got mugged a few weeks ago. the dude cracked my arm with a police baton and made off with my shoulder bag. said bag contained a laptop, pda (just a zire), some law books, my cell phone, and my gba. i was pretty crushed and actually went through a state of depression where i totally avoided the city at all costs for a while. is this common? the worst part is that those items were pretty much the sum total of my possessions (besides some clothes) and i cannot afford to replace even one of them. some of my friends are chicago cops and one gave me a keychain mace and another gave me a sap (blackjack). i doubt i'd use either though, as it seems everyone and their grandmother has guns nowadays. i'd just as soon let the mugger make off with my goods rather than get shot. oh well. i miss my gba sp BIG TIME.
swanker than you
Try learning some self defence? I'd suggest Wing Chun, but hten I would do that since it is the style I do...
Please stop saying weapons when you mean firearms. Lots of things are weapons, and not just knives either.
That relation nowhere shows that places that have weapons readily available to civilians are safer, rather, it shows the exact opposite.
Switzerland. Don't confuse the society with the laws of that society.
Don't deny my 78 year old mother the most effective means of defending herself against any thug that decides to kick her door in.
Ah. The one I forgot about. The one with all the one-way streets.
Every time you're about to get mugged -- use it as an excellent opportunity to practice your mastery of the Force:
1) practice the mind trick at least 3 times
2) when (if) that doesn't work, try lifting up your opponents in the air
3) practice the trick of disappearance or super-high jumps.
4) contemplate the loss of your posessions and give a serious consideration to The Path to the Dark Side.
In any case the more you practice, the better you get; Thus with every single time you're mugged your skill with the Force improves - walk more dark alleys late at night!
If nothing else, I heard that adrenalin is actually good for your health, while expensive posessions are bad for your karma.
Try taking into account WHO is commiting gun crimes in the US, and against whom. I'll give you a hint--it's certain, limited demographics. The British are facing the same thing, and the French are starting as well (probably the Netherlands as well, I don't have stats). I'd like to see where you stand in another 10 years if current trends continue (falling crime in the US; rising in Europe).
To paraphrase, political authority is intricately connected to the application of force, and violence is the ultimate application of force. It's long been true that Americans are simply not willing to relinquish to the government everything, nor trust as much in our government, as European peoples mostly are.
Perhaps. But I think the ideas embodied in the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution would be well applied universally. I realize the right to keep and bear arms is not recognized in all countries. Far from it. But the United States Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments to the US Constitution) does not grant rights. It acknowledges rights. The difference is, no government should have the ability to withhold these rights because they are not granted by any government. These are inalienable rights that exist for all free people. The 2nd Amendment recognizes the right to bear arms. The purposes are many, including personal defense, defense of a state from foreign aggression, and protection of the citizens from an oppressive or tyrranical government. The latter two reasons are why the term militia specifically appears in the 2nd Amendment. Citizens need to be able to provide a credible and effective armed deterence if needed. The 2nd Amendment does not recognize the right to hunt or target practice. The right to bear arms is not restricted to "sporting use". It seems obvious that the intention was for American citizens to be able to protect themselves adequately, even if their adversary was their federal government. Banning miltary style weapons is clearly not consistent with the 2nd Amendment.
After more than two centuries, the United States Constitution is still a collection of radical and revolutionary ideas. It has withstood the test of time, because the ideas of liberty, freedom, and justice are timeless.
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.
If other countries have a good method of providing for the protection of their citizens from criminals, foreign aggresors or the tyrrany of their own government, good for them. The 2nd Amendment has proven to be invaluable to US citizens in these matters, and we are reluctant to abandon the inalienable right that it recognizes.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
its very annoying i know...i try to not take out my valuables when mugger type of ppl are around...that seems to be the only solution...luking bulky doesnt count...muggers dont care how big you are...
I found this that disputes my original claim. Hehe.
The only problem I have is that they go off on the "England, Japan, etc." have lower gun murder rates but they never delve into total murder rates. It's just as easy to kill someone with a knife (or glass as they like to do in England) as a gun, especially if the other person doesn't have a gun. Violence in England is pretty rampant. I would say worse than the US.
> There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.
While true, you may want to take a look at countries like India and Russia and quite a few of the european states. It was not people bearing arms that tipped over manyan oppressive government, and as said before, your assault riffle is not gonna do much good against jetfighters and attack helies.
There are two things you shouldn't confuse. People have the inalienable right to take up arms against an oppressor. People have as much right on a life as free of violence as possible. You will have to balance those out, and your balancde is different then mine obviously.
> If other countries have a good method of providing for the protection of their citizens from criminals, foreign aggresors or the tyrrany of their own government, good for them. The 2nd Amendment has proven to be invaluable to US citizens in these matters, and we are reluctant to abandon the inalienable right that it recognizes.
It may do well in your culture, it may not do that well in others. The original story and question related to the UK, not to the USA.
Who knows :) thanks for the link.
And in addition to the diaper bag with a laptop, carry a laptop case full of dirty diapers!
It is a casual, not a causal correlation though. Rural communities tend to have higher rates of gun ownership and lower rates of crime all over the world. This is only interpreted as "gun ownership reduces crime" in the minds of a few deranged gun nuts.
I'm sorry, but Kenya is not an Islamic country. Granted, there are a lot of Muslims, especially at the coast, but the majority of Kenyans are Christians.
:-)
For the rest you have painted a pretty good picture of Kenya. Too bad the elections last year haven't really improved anything.
Ah well, it was fun growing up there...
The Official Steve Ballmer Webpage
- victim doesn't seem to defend themselves.. easier pray.
- victim may carry a weapon and looks like soemoen who might use it.. worse pray, and when going for it anyway, better make sure I'm first to kill.
You can add to this what tends to happen in South Africa: If you are disturbed in the process of a burglary, assume the victim has a gun and shoot them. Americans that think concealed carry laws make them safer are deluding themselves.
The same reason North West Scotland has lower crime rates than South East London.
Whether or not I would draw it if I were being mugged would depend on circumstances (i.e., if I thought I were in danger).
You have been choosing a poor example.
First, regarding knifes and other non-powder arms, you aren't allowed to carry them in Spain, check again. Some of them you aren't even allowed to own.
Second, regarding firearms, you can't carry any kind of gun either in countryside or populated areas unless you have a very special permit. Very very special. So special that I haven't known of anybody with such a permit (except policemen). You need a permit for owning weapons and you need a different one for carrying them. For sports, you must carry the thing unassembled and protected. The same applies to hunting firearms.
But, if you're talking about carrying hunting firearms while hunting with firearms in designated hunting areas at the countryside, well, that's what hunting firearms permits are for. You can't buy a firearm unless you have the permit, and you can't get a permit if you have been convicted, or are too young, or too old, or your health (physical or mental) isn't ok, or local authorities know you have been fucking around with drugs or, in older times, just don't like you so they will find something. But anyway you can't carry one legally outside the hunting areas, and it must be kept unloaded while not hunting, and unassembled during transport.
And regarding your analysis about political regimes, let me inform you that after the civil war finished in 1939, Franco kept people's access to weapons very, very limited during his dictatorship until 1975, and it has been kept that way (except for hunting firearms, because now you can get one regardless your political orientation, and i guess suspected leftists didn't get them too easily in old times).
Finally, the facts, despite your crime rate, I've never (NEVER) heard a gun shot in Spain (except during hunting). And before you ask, I've lived in areas with a low crime rate and areas with a high one. I've never seen a gun out of the belt of a policeman. The law forbids them to pull the thing out until after having been pointed at first! So your crime rate, if true, because I can't find it in CIA's, must be related to something else.
Thank you
Do you really think posting something orders of magnitudes dumber is good for your public reputation?
First, I don't know where you have found your statistics,
Probably a UK government site. Your crime stats are easily available even to those on this side of the pond. Embarrassing, aren't they?
but if you ask anyone in the streets (take someone in Sweden or Italy if you want them to be neutral), they will tell you that they are much more afraid of violence in countries that allow people to carry weapons around (e.g. the USA) than in countries where it is not allowed, no matter what the Official Crime Rate is.
In other words, you're telling me that EU citizens prefer to feel safe than to be safe and that they are under the delusion that feeling safe is more important. Well, a similar rationale applies to the US PATRIOT Act, which is also a stupid idea.
But don't come and tell us that deadly weapons such as guns make for a more secure, less violent city !
What do you have against the facts? The rational person changes his opinion to fit them.
In the US, where concealed firearm permits are freely issued to citizen, our "Official Crime Rate" drops consistently. This information isn't secret, if you're bright enough, google is your friend. Of course, you could rationalize this by telling us the Alien Grays in Area 51 cooked the numbers, but I'm sure you can come up with a more creative tinfoil hat explanation to avoid the common-sense way to account for these numbers.
Verifiable facts tell us that more deadly weapons in the hands of honest citizens results in safer streets. Are you telling us that there are no honest citizens in the whole of Europe? Since I know some, I would differ with you.
Personally, I think your perceptions are based on your hanging out at the bottom of the intellectual food chain whereever you go.
Get smarter friends.
Tech Public Policy stuff
And thank you for your rebutal with regards to SPannish law, which seems well informed. The world factbook is at www.cia.gov btw, if you want to check regardign crimerate.
While having lived for less then 6 months in Austin, Texas, I got a gun pointed at me once by a mugger, and saw the same happen 2 more times but not involving myself. Of course no statistics there of any value, but it does brign the argument across in a very individual way I can tell you.
If we're getting into anecdotal evidence here, I've lived in North Carolina (in "the south") for my entire life, and I've seen a person wearing a gun once (not counting police officers), and never seen one fired, never been mugged, etc
"self defence does not mean teaching them a damn good lesson"
Having trained in some fighting arts for several years, let me suggest your attitude will likely get you killed.
No insult, but allow me to explain.
If someone is *attacking* you, they are by definition trying to cause you serious harm, and probably death. If you think that's exaggeration, think of someone swinging a fist at your head. If a large person does that to you barefisted, there is a decent chance you'll get a serious concussion and it may be serious enough to cause brain injury or death.
Now keep that in mind as that fist is coming towards you. For the sake of argument, lets say that you manage to duck the punch and quickly take the attacker to the ground (lets say you've trained a bit). In your world, the fight is over. In your world, you're now dead.
Sorry, that's the way it is. Once the fight starts, its not a like a boxing match where everyone recognizes rules. No, the moment the mugger swings it by definition becomes a fight to serious injury or death.
So as you've swept the miscreant to the ground your work is almost finished but not quite. As your assailent reaches the ground, you would be well served to do at least two of the following three things:
1) Break his elbom
2) Break his wrist
3) Break his knee
4) Break a few ribs
5) Crush his neck
Excessive? Really?
You've just knocked an angry, large man to the ground. Let me suggest you've now just pissed him off and he will not make the same mistake twice. If he gets up, he will try to kill you. No, once you have the advantage, you must press the advantage until the man is incapacitated. There is no other way at that point. This isn't Hollywood where guys go to the ground and say "OOOOF! You got me! I'll go quietly!"
Personally, I wouldn't stop until once of us couldn't move any more. Hopefully him.
Well it is, but it's primary taught as a sport.
Imagine that when you spar they draw spots on each other where you're "allowed" to punch. They can't do a single throw to save their life, and they're not at all familiar with ground fighting.
No offense, I'd be terrible at Tai Kwan Do, because my kicks are pretty limited. I respect you for your physical prowness, but I think its not well suited to self-defense.
Judo might not be bad, but a lot of people hate the fact that you get thrown all the time.
Do you mean Kobudo? Or something else?
that is something I forgot to mention. People can get you when you fall asleep.
;)
Also don't do drugs, drugs are bad, m'kay?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
In the Bad Old Days, folks were forced to carry large amounts of cash; with modern banking we've been able to avoid that. Now with the onset of large amounts of personal technology, we're back to carrying treasure on our persons. The solution now is the same as the solution then:-)
But then my glasses would fall in two and I'd be blind.
It's called "don't make yourself a target." This is actually taught at self-defense classes--not to be confused with martial arts classes--and is the most practical way to avoid such danger. While this technique is most popular among teaching women how to avoid rape-by-stranger situations, this applies to all violent crimes that happen on the street by complete strangers.
That said, I've never had to take any such class. I learned how to not be a target from my misguided childhood spent hanging around those who typically are the brutish, violent sort. I got to learn how to avoid violence by learning to understand what violent types look at as an "easy target." People who would mug you are bottom-feeders of the violent types, so they exclusively seek out this "easy target" type.
Just don't be paranoid and worried in the way you carry yourself. I'm sure I'm not the first to say it, but I'm reiterating it as being the wisest and easiest of choices.
People in areas with less crime are not likely to be scared into passing gun restricting laws. They are also more accustomed to self reliance, so they are less likely to expect a police officer to protect them. Obviously the police can't protect people in sparse rural areas, but given the short time required to commit a crime, urban police are not much more effective at protecting citizens either, much less preventing crime.
The problem is crime. Crime is perpetrated by criminals. If you want to stop crime, stop criminals. Early social intervention is probably the best way to do that, but it isn't a simple fix. Guns are not the problem. A gun is a tool. Even if it was eventually possible to eliminate guns, there would still be violent criminals. Just as regions with fewer guns have the same suicide rates, just fewer suicides using guns. Baning guns doesn't solve any problems, and can make the situation worse in areas where there is already criminal activity.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
Despite the reputation the US has for being a shoot-from-the-hip, violence obsessed society, US crime rates have actually been decreasing for many years. That's not to say that violent crime isn't a problem anywhere in the US. There are some bad neighborhoods. They're mostly urban areas. A lot of the violence here is drug related. Some of it is gang related. But I believe that even the larger cities in the US are mostly safe.
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel03/ucr2002.htm
The geek worried about being mugged in the UK may have a serious problem, at least according to this article which indicates UK crime rates have risen sharply:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3669407.stm
I intentionally avoided sensational sources of crime data. That obviously excluded all pro-gun and anti-gun sites. Relative comparisons within a country are not useful for this discussion. I tried to find data on per capita crimes for different countries. I couldn't find any, but I know the truth is out there. (TM) I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the US has a relatively high crime rate. The reverse wouldn't surprise me too much either.
I found an article claiming Canada's crime rate has been increasing. I've visited the Toronto area, and the Canadians I met were very nice. I know all societies have criminals, but I can't imagine Canadian criminals. We could learn a thing or two from our neighbors to the north. I wish our society was as polite. Their streets are cleaner too. That's a big plus for me, because I really hate litter. One of these days I'm going to see someone litter and it's going to make me so mad I kill them.
It's a joke. Laugh.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
Bad logic there,
indeed there are some native Indains who are white and have been white.
Just becase the Caucasian race is found in Place X it dose not meen that every one from place X is Caucasian.
IIRC the Caucasians in Inda date back to 300AD.
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
I'm sorry, but I have to question this whole concept of 'shoot to kill'.
I spent seven years in the UK Forces, and have been trained - and carried - both rifles and pistols. The concept of 'shooting to wound' is a fallacy from the movies, where the good guy can hold his pistol sideways in one hand and hit a moving target in the knee from fifty feet.
We were taught simply to shoot for centre mass of the target - namely the chest area. Why? Well if you're under stress - and believe me, if you're in a firearms incident, you're under extreme stress - it's the biggest and easiest target to hit. Plus, there are nice big organs in the chest cavity.
If you've reached the point where it is a necessity to draw your firearm, you are going to be using it - it should never be drawn unless you are certain of that - and you're going to want to ensure that you hit your target.
Messing around trying to shoot a gun out of the bad guy's hand, you're going to miss - then you're going to die. Centre mass will stop - and likely kill. Your choice!
"This is your life - and it's ending one minute at a time" - Narrator, Fight Club
Delete the last slash on the link and that's the .PDF
State the obvious again and they'll mod you down. Somehow these mods get away with it but michael is the worst.
It's important to know the context of this article. One, it's generated from a quote by Oliver Letwin, a leading Conservative MP. Two, the Telegraph is notoriously pro-Consevative and anti-Labour, and these figures are being used to bash the current Labour government.
Knowing that, it's clear to see that the paper will have taken the worst-possible interpretation of whatever figures it could find.
Q.
So I've heard.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
OK, lets see some proof for your assertion that "crime rates in the UK have been going down across the board for years".
And buying a car makes you 100% more likely to get run over by your own car than before you owned one.
BS, move along.
I did NOT learn everything I need to know in kindergarten.
Shame the comment score tops out at 5; nice work... :-)
Whatever nice life the French can have was bought and paid for in American blood. I dare you to deny it. Sprechen sie Deutsch?
And the blood of other nations before America got off the fence to help remove a problem threating the entire world. Reminder : it started in '39, not '42.
historically-ignorant commentary is a bit much to stomach.
Don't tempt me.
You mischaracterize the level of safety that your average Londoner feels in strolling about as versus your average New Yorker (I was just there! I know).
So you're comparing your experience as a tourist (London) to your experience as a resident (NY)? Smart.
Information wants to be beer.
In London, at least, new laws mean that being caught with a knife on the streets carries a mandatory custodial sentence. The cops made a big effort publicising it a little while back. Don't know how strictly it's enforced.
Information wants to be beer.
walk with a purpose.
learn to defend yourself, akido is acceptable.
the day may come when someone points a gun at your belly and says, "give me your back pack mother f***er." if you cannot defend yourself, then give your pack to the person, keep your mouth shut, agree to what ever happens next, and hope for the best; else it's their weapon, their problem.
Actually, you bring up a good valid point concerning the length of a Katana. I study Ninjutsu, and in our classes we have addressed the topic of "what if your Katana is sheathed, while your attacker has his or her knife/sword/misc. weapon already to go and is close (within a few feet) to you?" This situation is quite problematic if the person attacking you knows the physics behind using a sword.
Consider this - you have a Katana, you need to draw it. If your attacker is close, and he knows what he's doing, he can get to you before the sword is drawn. Furthermore, even if you do manage to get the sword partially drawn, so long as the attacker stops you from getting the sword completely out, he can render your weapon fairly useless while he is 'messing you up, up-close and personal style'. Considering that in feudal era Japan that the warrior classes typically wore their Katana, this is a situation they had to know how to deal with.
So how did they deal with it? Simple. Either:
1) they typically wore TWO swords, a short and a long. The short sword can be drawn VERY quickly, and can be used to deal with close up opponents. In fact, in my class we actually practice this (with wooden swords, of course!). It is pretty easy to beat the draw of a Katana with a shorter sword. Modern day equivalents are common - pocket knives are particularly effective.
2) Back off! Putting a little distance between you and your attacker can make all the difference in the world. Give yourself time to completely draw the sword, and then cut him down if necessary.
Note that you cannot simply rely on speed when drawing a sword to "beat them to the punch". Why - if you do, you may very well eventually come across someone who is faster and more skilled, so a little strategy goes a long way.
Of course, if the person attacking you does NOT know how to really use a sword well, he may not even know that he can beat your draw. In that instance (like what happened to the guy in the subway), sometimes just showing him you sword is plenty. Heh - wish I could have been there to see that mugger run away like a scared child.
My two yen.
Alex Aguila
I don't believe they allow warning shots in NYC, the theory being that the bullets are going to hit something or someone no matter what direction you fire in. I read that the police are trained to only shoot to kill, since they would be likely to miss if they fired at arms or legs.
Nowadays between all the police wandering around with machine guns, the national guard loitering at the train stations and Macy's, and the vast numbers of gun toting undercover police from various city state and federal agencies the only thing that makes me nervous is that the machine gun totters will get surprised by the gun toting undercover police. ( surprised person with gun = bad thing IMHO ) A few years ago I was in a restaurant when a bunch of undercover and off duty cops from different agencys drew on each other when they did not recognize each other as cops. It sounds funny now but just a few weeks before a uniformed cop had killed an undercover cop who was making an arrest on the subway, without even shouting a warning.
I keep a low profile--pretty much only carry my laptop with me when I'm going to/from work, avoid public transportation (that's where the sketchy people often are), live in a gated subdivision in the 'burbs, drive an SUV and park in a controlled-access parking garage at work... never had any concern about muggings/etc.
I've traveled extensively in Europe, ridden the trains and underground/metros with no problem, but then again, I don't take my laptop or other gizmos w/ me when I'm on vacation..
Yes, in many ways the invisible act cuts down on your potential mates... but it culls out the shallow end of the gene pool too.
In this example of being a mugger, we are trying to supress the instances of attracting muggers... probably something to Small Mammel Attack Response (SMAR)where predators are triggered by visual clues that indicate a weak and potential target.
Muggers biologically are probably similar to coyotes, the urban wolf, for the human herd. At some level, they weed out the sick and weak keeping the herd healthy.
The Wolf is invisible too. Yet they use that invisibility to their advantage in order to carefully analyze their options and pick out what they want.
So maybe being invisible will keep you from getting hit on, the up side is it will give you an opportunity to be more selective in where you will invest your recreative energies: i.e. smart mates, not bar flies...
For me, there is an advantage to breeding to good stock with in a solid structured relationship. The energies to raise one decent offspring is considerable and not something I want to dabble in lightly.
Humans who breed like flowers gathering whatever seed the wind brings in end up with more genetic variety but tend to lack the stength of a solid household offer.
Wolves, like people tend to have better breeding. Part of this is because the act of initating coupling can quickly result in death either from the bitch or her current mate. Because of this, they are fairly monogamous and have two parents raising the litter.
You are exactly right on one point: In most cases, most people could probably live with that fact, but there are cases when you might give it a second thought.
:P
Before someone makes the choice to carry around (or use) a deadly weapon in any manner, they had best think through the potential consequences to decide if they are willing to risk taking the life of another human.
I have, and I am. Watch out, crooks.
Not only will muggers avoid you, so will the chicks!
You are so unbelievably wrong. Nothing gets the women to hit on you like a diaper bag. It's even better than walking a dog. Carrying a diaper bag shows that somewhere, some woman has declared you worthy of being a sperm donor. That's bonus one. Bonus two is that you are secure enough to help out with the child rearing.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Depends on the environment. It's pretty easy to pull off at the mall. Just look inside the occasional store, and mutter things like 'how much of my money is she spending this time...' and 'I shoulda got that damned vasectomy'.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
We did not look like we belonged there. We glanced around a lot. We were scared as hell.
If you can't follow your "universal rules", then a good alternative is to look much like the heavily armed Marines that you're hanging around with.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I used to carry my laptop around in a zero haliburton case with a bio-hazard sticker on it that I obtainted from a friend. Unfortunatlely this behaviour would probably get me detained indefinately without benefit of legal counsel, even though I'm a US citizen. Now I think my brown beaten up lawyer style briefcase is probably the safest way to travel with the laptop day to day. As for the peripherals I carry them in a oversized bomber jacket with lots of pockets. I can fit a CD or two, my camera, PDA and a book without attracting attention. I also try to avoid neighborhoods that are likely to be dangerous...
Can you fake the confidence of KNOWING you are going to fight back. If you can't convince yourself, how can you convince someone else?
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
And get yourself a gun you can carry comfortably.
And don't hang out with people who won't stand by you.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Really, you're creating your own problem here. Get rid of the iPod. Nothing screams out easy target like seeing someone listening to earphones. You're instantly giving up on one of your five senses (Granted, your sense of smell and touch probably won't help you defend yourself from a mugger....)
iPod's are a muggers dream. "Hey, not only is that guy not paying attention to his surroundings, but he's also got some sort of portable media device that i can pawn. Bonus!"
Aside from that, paying attention is your best defense. Expect to get mugged. Walk around with the sort of paranoia that comes from smoking too much weed in your friends basement while his parents are home. "Is there someone in the bushes? I don't know man!"
And don't bother fighting back unless you've got a serious advantage. Yeah you want to fight back and bust that guys head open, but you really don't know.
Hindsight is a bitch in those situations. You may feel like a tard for giving in, or you may end up with brain damage or a serious limp for fighting back withsomeone who has waaaay less to lose.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
The plain truth is that most muggers are looking for a fast hit with low risk. Crazy people are far from low risk.
When you walk along, take the godamn iPod off and just talk to yourself, quietly, or not-so-quietly.
Twitch a little.
Use the words "kill the bitch" often, emphasizing the word "kill" just a little bit. Exclaiming words like "FUCKERS" to noone in general adds a little spice to the monotony.
Stop on occation and just look randomly at something REAL HARD for a while, then shamble off muttering some more.
Hold your cellphone in your pocket and constantly twiddle with it. "What does that crazy guy got in his pocket? Test him and find out!" is not a game most petty criminals want to play.
If you look crazier then they are, they'll leave you alone.
and most importantly: IT'S FUN!
s'wut i sed.
out of many of the muggings near my school (U of I, Chicago), rarely do they ever result in violence
I'm sure that's very reassuring for those few cases where people's lives have been irrevocably turned inside out. So by your count they should be happy that statistically they are in a small club when they are raped or mugged.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
When you care enough to send the very best - a Para-Ordinance P12-45, and a toter's card for every state I visit.
If I can't get a card, I don't go there. Why go to a state which criminalizes self-protection?
Every state that's implemented it has seen the rate of violent crime against innocents drop faster than before the legislation was passed, BTW.
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
Unbelievable. Don't let Raven Alder hear you... You don't hear her crying, just the sound of flabby alpha-male geeks getting the crap beat outta them.
-Chad
http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/erist38.htm
Ah, a real-life psychic! You don't know how long I've been waiting to meet one of your kind! ... What? You mean you can't read minds? What good are you, then?
It sure would be nice if I knew exactly why some random stranger is choosing to assault me... maybe I should just give him my stu...!
This just in: serial killer scores another - police baffled. More at 11.
Whoever modded this "Insightful", I marked you unfair. It's Interesting and Informative, but not Insightful.
let them have the laptop. remember, this is slashdot, where "Information Wants to be Free"
I was recently in BC and someone tried a purse grab. Tourist areas have always got a few theives.
That said in Oregon we have little trouble with muggers as well, or tourists, it must be all the rain.