I still don't understand the difference. AND I AM A DEVELOPER OF FREE SOFTWARE!!!
I understand the differences between two different *communities*. That ones easy. One community has a very thin skin and the other doesn't. One community is a pragmatic group concerned with quality software and development processes, while the other tends to get wild eyed and dreamy and prone to bouts of religious fervor. But in terms of the software, I CAN FIND NO DIFFERENCE!
...this is to make a clear distinction between software that is merely open source, and software that is both free (as in speech) and open source.
Except that all software that is merely Open Source is also Free (as in FSF). Any exceptions are trivial and temporary and due more to hissy fits than any real violation of the Four Software Freedoms.
Java is ***NOT*** Open Source! I don't care what Sun says, it is not! Don't set up Java as a strawman for Open Source! Don't be a Schwartz!
You're missing the whole point. ESR says that we now have the experience and history to demonstrate that Free Software doesn't need GPL style protection. Regardless of what license KHTML is under, nothing Apple can do will damage it. Even if they decided to be assholes and keep all of their modifications secret, no harm would come to KHTML.
If all the companies are rushing in to use Linux because of the GPL, then why are so many of them found violating it?
The people in companies making the decision to go to Linux or not, are *NOT* technically literate. They are upper level managers. They see a buzzword and a free-as-in-beer price. That is all.
So why aren't HP, IBM, Novell and Wall Street now making proprietary branches of FreeBSD instead? The only reason they haven't is because they prefer the luster and glamour of the name "Linux" instead. But if they fork off Linux and make their own branch incompatible, they've just lost that luster.
They are all dead and dieing due to the fragmentation of resources and applications
Actually they're all dead or dying because computers have gotten too cheap. Why buy a horribly expensive Sun or SGI box when you can run Linux or BSD on a commodity PC server? Remember how Sun started out, they were hugely popular because they were CHEAPER than everyone else. But now they're more expensive, other than their enterprise servers, are a waste of your IT dollars.
The buggy whip manufacturers didn't die out because they fragmented, they died out because they become obsolete. The UNIX vendors are now in the same situation, as the technology is passing them by faster than they can keep up. There's no need to attribute magical and mystical powers to the GPL to explain this.
it's the only Free/Open-Source Software license ever to actually stand up in court.
The BSD license is the only one to ever stand up in court. The GPL is in court right now, but lawsuit is still ongoing.
ESR, shut the fuck up
Maybe if you didn't treat the GPL like a holy text and RMS as its prophet, you wouldn't be so nearly upset by his heresy. He's not destroying anything, he's bringing up a valid point that some of us with much less fame have been bringing up for years.
He also brings up a good point, lost in all the cries of heresy, that the popularity of the GPL is due to its role as a social marker, rather than its copyleft nature. How many times right here on Slashdot have you seen people get up to defend the GPL with righteous wrath, only to utter some stupid untrue statement about it, betraying the fact that they have never actually read it.
many major corporations have taken very significant code out of it...
Out of it? Don't you mean "from it" instead? "Stealing" BSD code is metaphysical impossibility, but you GPL advocates keep acting like the RIAA in your instance that it can be. Using Linux in a closed router no more harms the Linux codebase than downloading a Britney Spears song harms Britney's income.
I have to disagree. Most of the reason we are in this mess is that we have "politician" both a socio-economic class, and a career path. Both are wrong. You can't have a "good old boy" network passing out building contracts to the highest bidder like they were papal indulgences, without incumbents embedded in the system.
From my point of view, we aren't electing public officials to be lords and rulers over us, we're electing to be our representatives. But they can't represent us if they are not us! I want school teachers and shopkeepers and electricians and truck drivers on the city council, not politicians.
...it's entirely up to the citizens of Weare can choose whether or not their Selectmen are (or are not) worthy of re-election in a year or two.
This Kelo decision has made me so made I've made a pledge about it. I'm partly mad at the SCOTUS, partly mad at myself for not being awake sooner, but mostly mad at the petty tyrants inhabiting our local city governments.
I will no longer vote for any incumbent candidate, whether it be dog catcher or president or anyone in between. Ever again. I've been burned and I've learned my lesson.
...we did not cave into the demands of right-wing religious people.
Primarily because there were not any right-wing religious people making demands. There are for more people on the worried about offending the someone with Beastie, than there people actually complaining about Beastie. You might be able to rustle up a dozen of so people among the entire computing population of the world that are offended by a picture of a daemon, but several thousand per BSD forum making an issue out of it.
I hope never! Jedis are evil. Jedis are anti freedom. Jedis are tyrants. Don't believe me, believe the six movies about Jedis so see the truth.
These aren't the good guys. They're also stupid and inconsistant. A Jedi congressman will not govern by ration and reason, but by "searching his feelings." They will agitate for a return to a corrupt and undemocratic republic. They will spy on their superiors, ignore violations of their own code if committed by one of their own, steal children away from their parents, and force the government to fund their religion.
By God man, they don't even show remorse when fscking around in people's minds! They have no compunctions against cheating businessmen using mind control. This is what Orwell warned us against!
Would *YOU* want someone who would unquestioningly accept a clone army from an unknown source to be on a defense procurement committee?
Yes, I know that Jedi aren't real. But the thought of congressment who would willingly adopt the Jedi code as a philosophy of behavior chills me to the bone.
Actually, he's right in that neither Win32 nor GTK+ get any of the benefits of an object oriented language. The reason these APIs have some sort of object oriented-ness to them is that GUIs themselves are highly object oriented. It would be pretty damned hard to do a GUI API without some sort of OO.
When GTK+ developers claim that you don't need C++ because you can still do OO in C, they're only half right. You can do OO in *assembly* if you really wanted to, but who cares?
No, you can already do translucent windows and so on in software with the composite extension. That's what xcompmgr does.
But it doesn't do it as fast as under OSX. That's my point. The reason it doesn't is its drivers, and the fault isn't X.org's.
nVidia's proprietary drivers for Linux are of similar quality to the Windows ones.
Then nVidia's drivers under Windows must be crap. I don't know about Linux, but using the *SAME* driver core under FreeBSD gives the user a lackluster experience that is prone to frequent kernel hangs. Hell, the Open Source ATI driver that every shits on is better than that!
So in other words, in order to be able to do what what Windows and OSX already do in software, we have to have a "final solution" in hardware?
Don't get me wrong, I love X11. But if the hardware manufacturer's weren't screwing us over with the lack of specs, and offering crippled proprietary drivers, we wouldn't be in this problem. If THEY wrote Open Source drivers for X.org at the same quality they wrote proprietary drivers for OSX and Windows, we woulnd't need a "final solution".
Apparently sarcasm is lost on the left. Oh well. If you want to believe that the US government has declared eminent domain on Iraq and is currently evicting the populace, be my guest.
For decades we've been told by the environmentalists, "if there's even the tiniest chance that global warming is real and man made, then it would be foolish to do nothing about it." This is Pascal's Wager, but applied to a different religion. But two can play at this game!
"If there's even the tiniest chance that global warming is NOT happening, then this would be an extremely foolish thing to implement, as it could trigger the next ice age..."
Libertarianism isn't nihilism. Crime is still crime. If some private citizen actually decided to invade a country, it would be a CRIME.
The only reason Cecil Rhodes isn't regarded in history as a criminal is because he had the backing of the British Empire. While technically a private citizen (even though he was Prime Minister of Cape Colony), his BSA Company was still an agent of the crown, in the same way the East India Company was a century earlier, and privateer frigates before that.
It's entirely possible, however, that some numbnut company might decide to take over a country, as in Forythe's fictional "Dogs of War". But such a company would only do so if they expected the official recognition of their new state. AND EVEN SO, libertarians would still call it a crime. To a pure libertarian, business interference in government is every bit as wrong as government interference in business.
p.s. I'm a bit stunned, however, that people still regard private citizens are more dangerous to liberty than kings and tyrants. They justify this by providing an extremely rare exception like Cecil Rhodes, as if the countless examples of tyranny over the millenia somehow don't count.
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I still don't understand the difference. AND I AM A DEVELOPER OF FREE SOFTWARE!!!
I understand the differences between two different *communities*. That ones easy. One community has a very thin skin and the other doesn't. One community is a pragmatic group concerned with quality software and development processes, while the other tends to get wild eyed and dreamy and prone to bouts of religious fervor. But in terms of the software, I CAN FIND NO DIFFERENCE!
...this is to make a clear distinction between software that is merely open source, and software that is both free (as in speech) and open source.
Except that all software that is merely Open Source is also Free (as in FSF). Any exceptions are trivial and temporary and due more to hissy fits than any real violation of the Four Software Freedoms.
Java is ***NOT*** Open Source! I don't care what Sun says, it is not! Don't set up Java as a strawman for Open Source! Don't be a Schwartz!
You're missing the whole point. ESR says that we now have the experience and history to demonstrate that Free Software doesn't need GPL style protection. Regardless of what license KHTML is under, nothing Apple can do will damage it. Even if they decided to be assholes and keep all of their modifications secret, no harm would come to KHTML.
If all the companies are rushing in to use Linux because of the GPL, then why are so many of them found violating it?
The people in companies making the decision to go to Linux or not, are *NOT* technically literate. They are upper level managers. They see a buzzword and a free-as-in-beer price. That is all.
So why aren't HP, IBM, Novell and Wall Street now making proprietary branches of FreeBSD instead? The only reason they haven't is because they prefer the luster and glamour of the name "Linux" instead. But if they fork off Linux and make their own branch incompatible, they've just lost that luster.
They are all dead and dieing due to the fragmentation of resources and applications
Actually they're all dead or dying because computers have gotten too cheap. Why buy a horribly expensive Sun or SGI box when you can run Linux or BSD on a commodity PC server? Remember how Sun started out, they were hugely popular because they were CHEAPER than everyone else. But now they're more expensive, other than their enterprise servers, are a waste of your IT dollars.
The buggy whip manufacturers didn't die out because they fragmented, they died out because they become obsolete. The UNIX vendors are now in the same situation, as the technology is passing them by faster than they can keep up. There's no need to attribute magical and mystical powers to the GPL to explain this.
it's the only Free/Open-Source Software license ever to actually stand up in court.
The BSD license is the only one to ever stand up in court. The GPL is in court right now, but lawsuit is still ongoing.
ESR, shut the fuck up
Maybe if you didn't treat the GPL like a holy text and RMS as its prophet, you wouldn't be so nearly upset by his heresy. He's not destroying anything, he's bringing up a valid point that some of us with much less fame have been bringing up for years.
He also brings up a good point, lost in all the cries of heresy, that the popularity of the GPL is due to its role as a social marker, rather than its copyleft nature. How many times right here on Slashdot have you seen people get up to defend the GPL with righteous wrath, only to utter some stupid untrue statement about it, betraying the fact that they have never actually read it.
many major corporations have taken very significant code out of it...
Out of it? Don't you mean "from it" instead? "Stealing" BSD code is metaphysical impossibility, but you GPL advocates keep acting like the RIAA in your instance that it can be. Using Linux in a closed router no more harms the Linux codebase than downloading a Britney Spears song harms Britney's income.
I have to disagree. Most of the reason we are in this mess is that we have "politician" both a socio-economic class, and a career path. Both are wrong. You can't have a "good old boy" network passing out building contracts to the highest bidder like they were papal indulgences, without incumbents embedded in the system.
From my point of view, we aren't electing public officials to be lords and rulers over us, we're electing to be our representatives. But they can't represent us if they are not us! I want school teachers and shopkeepers and electricians and truck drivers on the city council, not politicians.
...it's entirely up to the citizens of Weare can choose whether or not their Selectmen are (or are not) worthy of re-election in a year or two.
This Kelo decision has made me so made I've made a pledge about it. I'm partly mad at the SCOTUS, partly mad at myself for not being awake sooner, but mostly mad at the petty tyrants inhabiting our local city governments.
I will no longer vote for any incumbent candidate, whether it be dog catcher or president or anyone in between. Ever again. I've been burned and I've learned my lesson.
I've already signed the pledge. Can't wait to spend a week there!
...we did not cave into the demands of right-wing religious people.
Primarily because there were not any right-wing religious people making demands. There are for more people on the worried about offending the someone with Beastie, than there people actually complaining about Beastie. You might be able to rustle up a dozen of so people among the entire computing population of the world that are offended by a picture of a daemon, but several thousand per BSD forum making an issue out of it.
Snoopy is NOT the logo for Metlife. He's a mascot.
I hope never! Jedis are evil. Jedis are anti freedom. Jedis are tyrants. Don't believe me, believe the six movies about Jedis so see the truth.
These aren't the good guys. They're also stupid and inconsistant. A Jedi congressman will not govern by ration and reason, but by "searching his feelings." They will agitate for a return to a corrupt and undemocratic republic. They will spy on their superiors, ignore violations of their own code if committed by one of their own, steal children away from their parents, and force the government to fund their religion.
By God man, they don't even show remorse when fscking around in people's minds! They have no compunctions against cheating businessmen using mind control. This is what Orwell warned us against!
Would *YOU* want someone who would unquestioningly accept a clone army from an unknown source to be on a defense procurement committee?
Yes, I know that Jedi aren't real. But the thought of congressment who would willingly adopt the Jedi code as a philosophy of behavior chills me to the bone.
Actually, he's right in that neither Win32 nor GTK+ get any of the benefits of an object oriented language. The reason these APIs have some sort of object oriented-ness to them is that GUIs themselves are highly object oriented. It would be pretty damned hard to do a GUI API without some sort of OO.
When GTK+ developers claim that you don't need C++ because you can still do OO in C, they're only half right. You can do OO in *assembly* if you really wanted to, but who cares?
So what? So does Win32!
How hard is it to CHECK THE MAIN PAGE BEFORE YOU POST?!
We're talking about Timothy here...
It's GPL, not LGPL. You still need a license to write proprietary software with Qt.
I don't know how you can expect to draw conclusions about their performance in Linux based only on FreeBSD.
Except I wasn't drawing any conclusions about Linux, only about X.org. There is a difference!
In other news, the Food Network shows you how to make a souffle, while it's still legal.
No, you can already do translucent windows and so on in software with the composite extension. That's what xcompmgr does.
But it doesn't do it as fast as under OSX. That's my point. The reason it doesn't is its drivers, and the fault isn't X.org's.
nVidia's proprietary drivers for Linux are of similar quality to the Windows ones.
Then nVidia's drivers under Windows must be crap. I don't know about Linux, but using the *SAME* driver core under FreeBSD gives the user a lackluster experience that is prone to frequent kernel hangs. Hell, the Open Source ATI driver that every shits on is better than that!
So in other words, in order to be able to do what what Windows and OSX already do in software, we have to have a "final solution" in hardware?
Don't get me wrong, I love X11. But if the hardware manufacturer's weren't screwing us over with the lack of specs, and offering crippled proprietary drivers, we wouldn't be in this problem. If THEY wrote Open Source drivers for X.org at the same quality they wrote proprietary drivers for OSX and Windows, we woulnd't need a "final solution".
Most of them work for our government but some of them work for other governments.
In other words, all of them work for one government or another. Isn't that what I was trying to say?
Apparently sarcasm is lost on the left. Oh well. If you want to believe that the US government has declared eminent domain on Iraq and is currently evicting the populace, be my guest.
For decades we've been told by the environmentalists, "if there's even the tiniest chance that global warming is real and man made, then it would be foolish to do nothing about it." This is Pascal's Wager, but applied to a different religion. But two can play at this game!
"If there's even the tiniest chance that global warming is NOT happening, then this would be an extremely foolish thing to implement, as it could trigger the next ice age..."
c.f. Niven's "Fallen Angels"
Libertarianism isn't nihilism. Crime is still crime. If some private citizen actually decided to invade a country, it would be a CRIME.
The only reason Cecil Rhodes isn't regarded in history as a criminal is because he had the backing of the British Empire. While technically a private citizen (even though he was Prime Minister of Cape Colony), his BSA Company was still an agent of the crown, in the same way the East India Company was a century earlier, and privateer frigates before that.
It's entirely possible, however, that some numbnut company might decide to take over a country, as in Forythe's fictional "Dogs of War". But such a company would only do so if they expected the official recognition of their new state. AND EVEN SO, libertarians would still call it a crime. To a pure libertarian, business interference in government is every bit as wrong as government interference in business.
p.s. I'm a bit stunned, however, that people still regard private citizens are more dangerous to liberty than kings and tyrants. They justify this by providing an extremely rare exception like Cecil Rhodes, as if the countless examples of tyranny over the millenia somehow don't count.