Re:Q: bootable/runnable CD copy of FreeBSD?
on
FreeBSD 4.1 Released
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· Score: 1
It should be easier than making a diskless system. Things like/tmp,/var/tmp,/usr/tmp should be linked together and run off of a ramdrive (5mb or so for large tmp files)/var in general should be on a seperate ramdrive (2mb?) The rest can be done as normal on a harddrive. Single partition install with everything pre-configured. Ensure it's a broad enough kernel to accept most hardware (modules are a +). And create an ISO as bootable.
I'm interested in knowing how you coaxed linux into doing such things as randomizing the running ID's, getting a truely (very very close) random urandom bit for key generation, ridding redhat of every buffer overflow in the main source among other things.
It should be noted that many other operating systems also currently support USB as well. BSD's not with standing. I think it should be opened for EVERYONE not just Linux.
What makes Linux more special than the rest? And why should Microsoft have to pay instead of Linux? Oh, being not-for-profit is entirely false. Ask Redhat how much their stock is worth.
Not to mention once Linux, or a BSD used the standards in opensource, other places would just take the API calls from there.
Whats the object of this message? Stop fighting a Linux vs. the world battle, and fight an opensource vs. the closed source world battle. You might find you have better luck as the number of opensource people is greater than linux people. Especially as far as large corporations are concerned.
First, it should be mentioned that you should expect problems. Afterall, this is developmental code which is still under constant change.
In order to upgrade, first and foremost get the -current source. (If you don't know how to do this, 4.0 isn't for you yet).
Of course, you'll need to read/usr/src/UPDATING. Especially todays notes regarding in xinstall changes. You may run into a few libraries that have problems during buildworld. I had to link libc.so.3 to libc.so.4. Once thats all said and done, installworld; make a new kernel and reboot.
Depending on when the last time you upgraded -current or -stable, this process may want to be repeated to take advantage of source compiled under the new features of the new source (thats a mouthfull).
This process will be made simpler over the next few days during the code freeze.
Also note, to upgrade to 3.4 from 3.3 you should either use the 3.4 install disks OR modify the installers OPTIONS (specifically set the release to 3.4 rather than 3.3).
This is why I put all my stuff into functions, where variables that variables are passed into. Not to mention the fact that the code actually handles things like passwords in an encrypted manner within the code.
You've never had a box with 6 network cards in it of mixed types... It's a horror story to handle with eth's, as anytime a change happens, the entire system switches. Atleast with different types in their own groups, a change in ordering will only affect 1 or 2.
BTW... 2 gbit nics, 2 100mbit nics, and 2 10mbit nics... Each to a different network:)
Re:My FreeBSD perspective.
on
Which BSD?
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· Score: 1
I realize this may seem like flame bait, but unless Linux has come leapyears ahead in it's code in the past 6 months, most drivers will remail acceptable. However, in my experience (with various linux distributions installed on several different computers [even an early stampede box]) a good 1/2 of the linux drivers were good. The other half were highly questionable... Performance with the device was poor under light load not to mention heavy load. Under many benchmarks we can / could see that Linux was extreamly slow under load compared to some other OS's on the same hardware. NT does a poorer job, agreed. Linux does a slightly better job. BSD's seem to do a better job... The perfect example of this is the point that many people brought up. BSD's tend to be used on servers. Due to ease of administration, and their ability to handle heavy load. Part of that ability to handle heavy load comes from GOOD device drivers. I must say I'm looking forward to FreeBSD 4.0-current becoming -stable. Go NewBUS, away with all ye config files...
The opensource movement doesn't have enough control to be fully recognized by the article. Aside from that, OpenSource software is STILL plagged by these problems.
Redhat can't go a week without having a security problem found. It rescently IPO'd. I only expect this to get worse.
Both KDE and Gnome have some serious problems. Partially due to the small number of developers on the projects trying to do a big job.
The Linux kernel (ugh..) also has some very serious problems. Albeit not as bad as the more popular windows, not as good as it could be.
In my conclusion, GPLing doesn't make for a better product. Just makes people feel better about themselves. As linux becomes more commercialized, these problems will only get worse.
I still fully believe that the best Linux kernel & library set was around the 1.2 kernel releases. I don't see this changing for quite a while.
OS/2 was quick at fixing bugs, but it shipped with alot of them. Microsoft obviously has bugs (notice how it performs better if everything on the machine is M$ though?). Macs die too.. Don't forget that. Linux takes a little longer to kill, but just give it a load over about 25 and watch it plummit.
BeOS will be my next try... I hear its great for multimedia stuff, but not to expect much in the office suit department.
Yes, yes... Linux is still more stable than some of the others. I just wish the hardware that was reported as being supported, was truely (stably) supported. SBLive anyone?
I believe what those posters were referring to was the ability to change the license for your purposes when using the BSD license. However, in 99% of the cases companies continue to contribute back to the public domain under the BSD license for a subteller reason than that of the GPL.
Cost is too high to maintain a BSD product completely seperate from the mainstream releases. Apple, Yahoo, Integrated Circuit companies, etc. all contribute parts, drivers and other things regularly. It makes it easier for them to borrow other sections in the future if they can help insure it'll be compatible (which they do by being active).
It has yet to be shown that the GPL is better at this, only that it is more direct at enforcing it. Though, without there having been a major court case, the GPL's effectiveness has yet to be actually seen.
The reason it got moderated down, probably has to do with the fact that's its flamebait, and the comments listed are near pure FUD. Near pure FUD because there are some partial facts in it, used out of context and misquoted.
Who cares about 3dFX. I got my TNT II card working great with FreeBSD -current. Xracer is a cool game by the way. Looking forward to the near approaching version 1:).
The FreeBSD team normally welcomly implements anything that people donate hardware, and spec sheets to implement. Or, they also accept good code at overwhelming rates.
Soundcard? Get an awe 32. Video? Get a TNT or TNT II, tvtuners are supported, cd burners, dvd drives (no.. not mpeg decoding cards yet).
Theres normally enough support to keep users going.
Regarding configuration, FreeBSD comes with a lovely X configurator called XFSetup. This is a gui based configuration thing, which allows you to choose mouse, keyboard, videocard, various monitor tweeks, test screen modes, etc. In fact, it's built into the installer should you want to try it out.
Other than that, XFree86 v4 is quite fast. The way the drivers within the servers work has been redone, making them fast, and much less bloated.
I'd say both of these problems have, or will be shortly taken care of...
Yeah.. but games like that aren't (or shouldn't be) 2D.
Afterall... Those games do alot of on the fly rendering for multiple heights. It's a 255 height game. Why not make it with a much better control. The units are also 3d, and would benifit. As for the rest, it would just be a display once and leave it situation. Not to mention, most video cards could easily handle this...
There are several users in the higher up ranks of the BSD lists that are trying to change this.
One is a more open development model. While you currently just send a pr report with your patches included the new system would allow you to do direct cvs commits. There will still be a peer review process to make sure the stuff is good, but the line between you and the reviewer won't be as obvious.
On the other hand... Was that answer at any documentation sites? -questions has a few thousand emails daily, most of which are highly repetative.
freebsdrocks, freebsddiary, and the handbook answer 99% of most users questions. The rest in IRC where I spend alot of time answering questions.
-questions is way too overloaded... Should setup somekind of a structured questions list, with ID tags, etc. It should also automatically give you a faq when you join it...
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Woo for DreamCast
It should be easier than making a diskless system. Things like /tmp, /var/tmp, /usr/tmp should be linked together and run off of a ramdrive (5mb or so for large tmp files) /var in general should be on a seperate ramdrive (2mb?) The rest can be done as normal on a harddrive. Single partition install with everything pre-configured. Ensure it's a broad enough kernel to accept most hardware (modules are a +). And create an ISO as bootable.
I'm interested in knowing how you coaxed linux into doing such things as randomizing the running ID's, getting a truely (very very close) random urandom bit for key generation, ridding redhat of every buffer overflow in the main source among other things.
Thanks for your informative response.
It should be noted that many other operating systems also currently support USB as well. BSD's not with standing. I think it should be opened for EVERYONE not just Linux.
What makes Linux more special than the rest? And why should Microsoft have to pay instead of Linux? Oh, being not-for-profit is entirely false. Ask Redhat how much their stock is worth.
Not to mention once Linux, or a BSD used the standards in opensource, other places would just take the API calls from there.
Whats the object of this message? Stop fighting a Linux vs. the world battle, and fight an opensource vs. the closed source world battle. You might find you have better luck as the number of opensource people is greater than linux people. Especially as far as large corporations are concerned.
This information is in UPDATING (though may not have been when you first posted).
Upgrading from 3.x to 4.0
/usr/src/UPDATING. Especially todays notes regarding in xinstall changes. You may run into a few libraries that have problems during buildworld. I had to link libc.so.3 to libc.so.4. Once thats all said and done, installworld; make a new kernel and reboot.
First, it should be mentioned that you should expect problems. Afterall, this is developmental code which is still under constant change.
In order to upgrade, first and foremost get the -current source. (If you don't know how to do this, 4.0 isn't for you yet).
Of course, you'll need to read
Depending on when the last time you upgraded -current or -stable, this process may want to be repeated to take advantage of source compiled under the new features of the new source (thats a mouthfull).
This process will be made simpler over the next few days during the code freeze.
Also note, to upgrade to 3.4 from 3.3 you should either use the 3.4 install disks OR modify the installers OPTIONS (specifically set the release to 3.4 rather than 3.3).
We all know that Robertson is the best screw / driver combo. Square btw.
Screws don't fall off, if it strips, you get a driver of the next biggest size and continue, they never slip, etc...
This is why I put all my stuff into functions, where variables that variables are passed into. Not to mention the fact that the code actually handles things like passwords in an encrypted manner within the code.
I'm sure I've missed other stuff though.
As stated originally, currently its impossible and requires design time.
If I'm not mistaken theres a lot of laser research going on at the moment.
You've never had a box with 6 network cards in it of mixed types... It's a horror story to handle with eth's, as anytime a change happens, the entire system switches. Atleast with different types in their own groups, a change in ordering will only affect 1 or 2.
:)
BTW... 2 gbit nics, 2 100mbit nics, and 2 10mbit nics... Each to a different network
I realize this may seem like flame bait, but unless Linux has come leapyears ahead in it's code in the past 6 months, most drivers will remail acceptable. However, in my experience (with various linux distributions installed on several different computers [even an early stampede box]) a good 1/2 of the linux drivers were good. The other half were highly questionable... Performance with the device was poor under light load not to mention heavy load. Under many benchmarks we can / could see that Linux was extreamly slow under load compared to some other OS's on the same hardware. NT does a poorer job, agreed. Linux does a slightly better job. BSD's seem to do a better job... The perfect example of this is the point that many people brought up. BSD's tend to be used on servers. Due to ease of administration, and their ability to handle heavy load. Part of that ability to handle heavy load comes from GOOD device drivers. I must say I'm looking forward to FreeBSD 4.0-current becoming -stable. Go NewBUS, away with all ye config files...
The opensource movement doesn't have enough control to be fully recognized by the article. Aside from that, OpenSource software is STILL plagged by these problems.
Redhat can't go a week without having a security problem found. It rescently IPO'd. I only expect this to get worse.
Both KDE and Gnome have some serious problems. Partially due to the small number of developers on the projects trying to do a big job.
The Linux kernel (ugh..) also has some very serious problems. Albeit not as bad as the more popular windows, not as good as it could be.
In my conclusion, GPLing doesn't make for a better product. Just makes people feel better about themselves. As linux becomes more commercialized, these problems will only get worse.
I still fully believe that the best Linux kernel & library set was around the 1.2 kernel releases. I don't see this changing for quite a while.
OS/2 was quick at fixing bugs, but it shipped with alot of them. Microsoft obviously has bugs (notice how it performs better if everything on the machine is M$ though?). Macs die too.. Don't forget that. Linux takes a little longer to kill, but just give it a load over about 25 and watch it plummit.
BeOS will be my next try... I hear its great for multimedia stuff, but not to expect much in the office suit department.
Yes, yes... Linux is still more stable than some of the others. I just wish the hardware that was reported as being supported, was truely (stably) supported. SBLive anyone?
I believe what those posters were referring to was the ability to change the license for your purposes when using the BSD license. However, in 99% of the cases companies continue to contribute back to the public domain under the BSD license for a subteller reason than that of the GPL.
Cost is too high to maintain a BSD product completely seperate from the mainstream releases. Apple, Yahoo, Integrated Circuit companies, etc. all contribute parts, drivers and other things regularly. It makes it easier for them to borrow other sections in the future if they can help insure it'll be compatible (which they do by being active).
It has yet to be shown that the GPL is better at this, only that it is more direct at enforcing it. Though, without there having been a major court case, the GPL's effectiveness has yet to be actually seen.
The reason it got moderated down, probably has to do with the fact that's its flamebait, and the comments listed are near pure FUD. Near pure FUD because there are some partial facts in it, used out of context and misquoted.
There sure is a female BSD Daemon. Names emily.
Below is the link of how she was actually 'formed'.
http://www.intrastar.net/~karen/daemon/
(Link found on www.freebsdrocks.com).
Who cares about 3dFX. I got my TNT II card working great with FreeBSD -current. Xracer is a cool game by the way. Looking forward to the near approaching version 1 :).
The FreeBSD team normally welcomly implements anything that people donate hardware, and spec sheets to implement. Or, they also accept good code at overwhelming rates.
Soundcard? Get an awe 32. Video? Get a TNT or TNT II, tvtuners are supported, cd burners, dvd drives (no.. not mpeg decoding cards yet).
Theres normally enough support to keep users going.
You seem to be heavily pushing Berlin as a new gui for Linux. As much as this may dissapoint you, I'm hoping it'll run on more than just Linux.
X afterall, runs on all unixies, os/2, mac, and windows... Very handy if you ask me. (Yes, I do use X under OS/2 quite a bit!)
Regarding configuration, FreeBSD comes with a lovely X configurator called XFSetup. This is a gui based configuration thing, which allows you to choose mouse, keyboard, videocard, various monitor tweeks, test screen modes, etc. In fact, it's built into the installer should you want to try it out.
Other than that, XFree86 v4 is quite fast. The way the drivers within the servers work has been redone, making them fast, and much less bloated.
I'd say both of these problems have, or will be shortly taken care of...
Yeah.. but games like that aren't (or shouldn't be) 2D.
Afterall... Those games do alot of on the fly rendering for multiple heights. It's a 255 height game. Why not make it with a much better control. The units are also 3d, and would benifit. As for the rest, it would just be a display once and leave it situation. Not to mention, most video cards could easily handle this...
There are several users in the higher up ranks of the BSD lists that are trying to change this.
One is a more open development model. While you currently just send a pr report with your patches included the new system would allow you to do direct cvs commits. There will still be a peer review process to make sure the stuff is good, but the line between you and the reviewer won't be as obvious.
On the other hand... Was that answer at any documentation sites? -questions has a few thousand emails daily, most of which are highly repetative.
freebsdrocks, freebsddiary, and the handbook answer 99% of most users questions. The rest in IRC where I spend alot of time answering questions.
-questions is way too overloaded... Should setup somekind of a structured questions list, with ID tags, etc.
It should also automatically give you a faq when you join it...
With support in XFree86 for the 3D stuff, and support in both Linuxies, and FreeBSD for full fledged OpenGL acceleration...
Why not write stuff in OpenGL?
(xracer rules btw!)
hehe... I got the Linux Q3Test working beutifully on my k6-266 with a TNT2 card :)
Btw... I'm using FreeBSD too...