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FreeBSD 4.0 Code Freeze
FreeBSD has now entered code freeze for the up and coming 4.0
release. In the words of Jordan Hubbard, the release engineer; The code freeze will last for 15 days, during which time the 4.0
snapshot server (current.freebsd.org) will be cranking out its daily
snapshots (and, in the last half of the release cycle, ISO images as
well). 4.0 is the first release from the latest FreeBSD -current development branch. Work also continues on the 3.x -stable branch.
I said beta, and I mean beta, unix like beta, windows beta is like unix alpha.
If I recall correctly BRU is an Amiga app, created by Fred Fish. It was included early on in the AmigaOS as standard.
One BIG category (for me at least): SOUND. FreeBSD's sound drivers are rather outdated (compared to OpenBSD and NetBSD, and way outdated compared to Linux). The OSS/BSD drivers are rather shabby too (not too mention closed source). The only crash I've ever had with my FreeBSD machine has been related too OSS. All kinds of quirks involved with this. But, I guess thats what you get for using closed source drivers. This has always puzzled me. Why hasn't the sound drivers been further developed (not maintained) over the years?
They have FreeBSD at both of the CompUSA stores where I live, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
And, when 4.X ships, I'm sure the new version 5.0 will start development, and we'll see 3.4 become the final stable version (or close to) of the 3.X tree. And 4.X will be the latest and greatest.
The 3.x branch will continue to be developed.
Does *bsd have color ls?
This is probably a minor point, but i can't live without it...
Do you have some examples of how FreeBsd has better MAN pages then Linux? I would like to do
:)
some research on this, as it sounds like it *might* have some evidence?
Speaking as a Linux'er, I'd agree with the original poster that *BSD is more meticulous about having a man page for everything. Unfortunately, they're still getting updated from the 2.x days, but that's more than Linux can say....
And if it can be proven to be true then hell I might even help resolve that issue for you
Talk to the Linux man-pages maintainer. He periodically begs for help on linux-kernel, complete with a shopping list of what needs doing.
No kernel threads. Sorry.
Linux is in constant alpha state since the feature set is never closed.
Er, they have. Look in /sys/i386/conf/LINT specifically for the pcm driver.
What's Netware?
7th
8th...new record...cool
Now all I need is VMWare for BeOS !
Unix is like pornography. Nobody can define what it is, but you know it when you see it.
That's cuz users of FreeBSD like to devote to their boxes to serving rather than serving and playing mp3's at the same time. :)
Seriously, I think it's strictly a problem concerning userbase. Since most Linux people tend to have migrated over from Windows, they have higher expectations regarding sound and have sound hardware that tends to be rather new... blah blah blah
It's really a matter of users. Of course, personally, I wouldn't mind having sound drivers running in userspace, something like a sound daemon that can communicate with soundblasters, etc, etc. Would be useful for people of different operating systems.
It is irrelevant to slashdot, as it is not about Linux.
WTF do we get non-Linux news on slashdot?
FreeBSD has adopted the Linux model of kernel threads (clone() under Linux, rfork() under FreeBSD), and they work fully in FreeBSD 4.0.
(they did not work on SMP machines in 3.3)
Note that in order to program to them with a pthreads interface, you'll need to use the LinuxThreads port.
At some point in the future the FreeBSD people are talking about doing their own pthreads library to interface to kernel threads, but it is still in the design phase at this point.
> BTW, FreeBSD 4.0 has support for USB Ethernet adaptors, like those on the Sony VAIO's
The VAIOs I've seen have built in PCI ethernet. USB ethernet sucks, it can only use about 10% of the bandwidth of 10Base-T. (that's 10, not 100)
> Linux barely supports USB, not to mention anything other than a Keyboard and Mouse.
Linux supports USB scanners, audio, video cameras, modems, etc. The documentation isn't up to date, though.
Solaris Beta ?
Mission critical server ?
Maybe if your "mission" is smoking crack!!!!
Pentium II Xeons and Pentium IIIs, I believe.
And Linux does it without a 'memory overlay' as you previously described.
Ah yes, but you should wait till 4.1 actually, if you're new to FreeBSD. When 3.0 was released, if my memory serves me correct, it was not recommended for the general public. There was a number of problems with it, which is not surprising considering the major changes. I am sure the 4.0 release will go along the same lines.
Myself, I'll hang on to 3.4 for quite a while longer. It does the job perfectly, and I suspect I won't have to have the new features the instant they are out...
I'll take the fact that you must resort to insults as an indication that you don't have any facts to back up your position.
It's a fact, if you ever talked to the late Richard Stevens when he was alive he'd tell you the same.
Linux can't be certified as UNIX, BSD can.
XFree86 requires root access to operate. Any program that requires root access may trivially crash the kernel, be it Linux or FreeBSD.
Who do you think you're talking too?
I've been hacking both kernels for a long time.
The reproducable crashes on Linux does not take place in any of the BSDs.
Do I detect a hint of sour grapes?
It seams like you think the guy who wrote the message before mine where the same persons, we're not.
USB is bad implementation of serial device, that's a fact.
He obviously doesn't think so, but that's him.
Anyway, the drivers in FreeBSD is much more mature than in Linux, better implemented and not in the alpha state as in Linux.
C'mon, guys. If FreeBSD is as superior to Linux as you say it is, you should be able to bring up some facts which prove it, right?
As I've said over and over for the last years, read the code, it's all there.
"However, Linux also at the same time makes a much better OS for my four-way PIII number-cruncher"
False. Linux SMP is not much better. You'll get more value purchasing an NT or SCO license.
"... and still not having a clue whether you need it or not"
We're talking about the lint here. Not the kernel config file. You don't have to add anything from it. You also do not lose out if you do not understand an option provided in it. I'm also pretty sure that if there isn't an explanation in the file, you can find an explanation on the mailing list archives in about 2 minutes.
Not bad for a beginner!
Actually they do have it at CompUSA, at least in Rockville Maryland.
Do you have any sense of humor whatsoever? All you Slashdolts are so earnest it's staggering.
That's not possible... PC's don't support that many processors... I believe that 15 is the theoretical max with performance gains leveling off at about 4...
They have FreeBSD at Microcenters in Ohio. Compusa is a typical slut computer store though.. I'm amazed they actually even carry ANY Linux distros. Probably just Redhat 6.1 or something whereas I can pickup Mandrake, Slackware, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Redhat, Corel, Caldera, etc. at my local Microcenter.
BSD is based on 4.4BSD-Lite2, which was a real UNIX.
Agreed. How come you use FreeBSD? http://www.fr.netbsd.org/Misc/features.html
What is wrong with rebooting once a day? You can usually do it in the wee hours of the morning.. schedule it to reboot around 3am. Nobody is up at that hour of the night so even if you are doing major e-commerce with it you won't lose any sales. *giggle*.
Which VAIOs have USB Ethernet cards? As far as I know, its an OEM Intel 10/100 card. At least it is on my 505R. I currently have it functioning using Windows (Duh), BeOS and Linux. I've not yet (But will shortly) try FreeBSD 4.0 on the machine to see how its detected. The floppy, however, is most definately USB. Linux detects it as a floppy drive but refuses to mount it. Go fig...
solaris rocks and 8 is much faster. I admit I wouldnt use it on a $30,000 server but its fine for just playing. Intel will unvail a 32 processor x86 machine and solaris will be the only pc OS that can scale on it.
Tar is not a tape-archiving utility. It's a utility for taking a bunch of files, glomming their contents and also information about names / paths / permissions into one big lump. Sure, it was originally developed for creating tape archives (and of course the name reflects this), but I suspect it's used somewhat more often for generating archives that are not specifically intended to go to tape.
FreeBSD is being sold at CompUSA in NYC. Granted, they don't advertise it over the PA the way they do Linux, but it's on the shelves...
I rather run a real UNIX that the UNIX wannabe you promote.
XFree86 has crashed Linux(It just the kernel) several times, never had a problem with that on any of the BSDs.
If I cared about memory ability and great scaleability, I go for Solaris ANY day - AND IT'S FREE.
USB sucks anyways.
>Did you ask one of the friendly and knowledgeable salespeople to help you install it as you were frisked on the way out?
I absolutely agree with this. Fry Electronics is run like a prison camp. I'm surprised they don't implant tracking devices on customers as they wak in as an "anti-theft" measure.
It's much faster and more stable than Linux on a good machine. Btw, Linux is in constant beta state.
Obviously the 32 processor support is limited to non-x86 architectures.
Wrong, BeOS can easily scale to support that number of CPU's. Right now the limit in Be is 8 processors (there are no PC's that support more than 8 CPU's right now), but this is simply a constant that can be changed at any time, to any number.
Because FreeBSD is a server OS, not a toy to be tinkered with like Windows or Linux.
Linux is not committed to following unix standards, it's "sort-of posix" "sort-of unix" it's really
;-). Furthermore, Linux at least has, in various distributions, been certified POSIX-compliant. Can *BSD even say that?
none-of-the-above.
I applaud Linux on having the gall to step up and say "these standards are stupid and holding us
back", however in the same breath they are ditching the guarantees that unix promises.
Linux is _not_ unix, don't fool yourself.
Just for the record, how is *BSD any more of a Unix? Neither one is based on Unix source code (*BSD because of copyright laws and lawsuits, Linux because of sanity
Well said. I too am a BeOS user, but my belief is that BeOS stands on its own. It doesn't NEED its users to be zealous, overbearing, righteous evangelists. I use BeOS, but I also know when to boot to another OS if its needed to accomplish a particular task. I just hope that BeOS does catch on since it is a very nice OS.
Debian had a set freeze date since Novemember? I thought they played it by eye.
They did. The two aren't incompatible.
If you want to use freebsd in a server farm, you are going to have a hard time. Either you need a monitor connected to each one of your machines (yuck!) or a modem connected to serve as console (highly annoying). The good thing about linux is that is not written to drive the server farm admin crazy :)
"Linus inability to write REALLY good code"
You're an Anonymous Coward, I don't see you credited by *BSD, Linux or any other OS kernel dev. team, so I presume you just invented this assertion, 'cos you do not have any background to make me think you know what you're talking about.
If you DO have a background in the appropriate area, and want to post more than hearsay, get an ID so that we can find out who you REALLY are.
I'd love to try out one of the *BSDs, since I cut my UNIX teeth on SunOS 4.1.3. The problem is, I haven't been able to find one that supports my SCSI card (a Mylex BT-950).
I looked on the FreeBSD page, but I couldn't find any info on hardware support in FreeBSD-current (which is, I assume, what will turn into 4.0 RSN). Does anybody know what it will look like, and if so, where I can get a list of supported hardware for the 4.0 release?
18th...man, this is crazy.
DCS helped the guy first off, and then instead of a "thank you" or a "oh, cool" he got lipservice about his help not being good enough.
;-), but your incessant demands for respect, and not being insulted, and not being offered lipservice (when in fact, you weren't being disrespected, weren't being insulted, and weren't being offered lipservice) come across as quite elitist and holier-than-thou, especially since you didn't even earn said respect by helping the person out.
Try reading. The person did say thanks. Furthermore, I'm not sure what in the person's post could possibly have been construed as "lipservice", or, for that matter, who you think you are to deserve not getting lipservice from time to time.
The mentality of a user like you (I've seen it in many linuxites) is that FreeBSD people have sticks up their asses and think that they are the most elite people to ever walk the earth.
I'm not a Linuxite (well, I have installed it, but I tend to stick to FreeBSD and OpenBSD). And after reading this thread, I'd say you've done a good job in furthering this image "Linuxites" apparently have of FreeBSDers.
We didn't call anyone lame, or dumb (*we were talking to another freebsd user, anyway*) yet we get pointed at and called elitist.
Bugg, you (and I'm using you quite specifically) were quite elitist. I have no idea where you think the *BSD person disrespected you (unless maybe he emailed you privately and accused your mother of siring you with Darth Vader or something, which I wouldn't put past a "Linuxite"
As for the atomosphere of a community, I don't really see/understand/feel the vibe behind the idea that if two people use the same OS, they should be friends.
Nobody said anything about friends. Quite frankly, I have no interest in being friends with someone as petty as you. I would like to think, however, that as a fellow *BSD user that you would be willing to explain things I don't understand, and vice-versa. Apparently I'd be wrong, because you're more concerned with imaginary offerings of "lipservice."
being called elitist, when you've gone out of your way to help people, hurts.
(a) Where did you go out of your way to help people?
(b) Sometimes the truth is painful to face.
19th?
It as not as good as linux for a personal workstation because..?
In my case, that would be because
1. my workstation has 2 CPUs
2. those CPUs are sparc
3. I use a lot of apps which Debian has packaged but which aren't in ports or are broken in ports
Obviously, #3's not that big a deal (except that my time is important, though not so important that I'd choose my OS on that basis). #1 and #2 are both show-stoppers as far as FreeBSD is concerned, though.
Excellent; thanks for the info, zak. I'll look into XFree and Unixware.
(The Admiral, posting from Home. Oh, come on, everyone forgets their password on occasion...!)
Thanks for the heads-up. How long should I expect to wait between 4.0-RELEASE and 4.1-RELEASE?
No, because, it will be bad publicity for my employer, not because what I'm saying is incorrect, but my company might not share my opinion.
If you'd been in the Linux community from the start you'd know what I'm saying.
Not really needed, just read the code for the latest kernel and be frightened by how much crap code it's in there.
If he knew how to code he would never accepted much of the code sent to him.
If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is perfect. --Linus Torvalds
hhmmmm well my compusa has FreeBSD 3.3 and I believe they are on order to recieve 3.4. Of course they have Turbo linux, Redhat, Corel, SuSe, and Netware products also. Not bad for compusa. Some stores have them and I have found some that do not carry FreeBSD in my area. Just look around or bug them to order BSD and you will help the cause in your area.
20...cool
21 skadoo
22...now, this rocks.
23...same number of shots Roblimo did tonight
24...I run this place, evidently
25...all mine, I guess
26...i feel like the guy from the Twilight Zone episode
retard
I think you have that backwards. the BSD's are committed to do the right thing(tm). Linux is a clone of unix, basically re-creating what was already created.
27...the guy with the glasses
Unless the University of California (or the FBSD team) has recently declared Walnut Creek as official distributor of BSD , I cannot see how you can say that the "original" stuff comes from them. BSDs are freely redistributable, so any person can make copies and sell them for profit. Hardly the definition of "warez" if you ask me.
"warez" would be those stacks of Half-Life CDs, the Starcraft 6-in-one "compilation" CDs, etc, etc.
As a matter of irrelevant observation, Cheapbytes CDs of suse, RH and Debian are sold in KL for RM22... USD$5 each. Way more than the US$1.99 sold on the web site.
But no, I have not seen any Walnut Creek CDs.
caveat:I have never *looked* for Walnut Creek CDs.
What really matters is can _anyone_ write better code than Linus. The answer to that is yes.
about time folks...you people are slow
WTF are you talking about? *BSD is Linux's daddy. BSD was around far before Linux and it will be around long after the Linux hype wave clears. Linux is becoming commercial crap more and more everyday.
You're a real brown-noser aren't you? Did you get beat up at school much?
You should be drawn and quartered you racist fuck.
fag
The story so far:
/usr/src/UPDATING."
/usr/src/UPDATING (Updating TO) was interpreted as Updating FROM (Most Logical STABLE, in AC's case).
A strong reason for the *obviously* sarcastic reply by AC is that DCS chose to use the unfortunate phrase:
"You obviously have not read
This caused a knee-jerk response by AC due to the fact that he *had* read the UPDATING-file (but from the wrong CURRENT-version) and probably felt insulted.
(All because of the
And all hell broke loose.
Amen.
you mean the unix file permissions security model?
thank you for recognizing my achievement.
Tom who?
brilliant argument: "I know you are, but what am I?"
shut the fuck up
sound in userspace. brilliant idea, I'd love to make all my sound apps SUID 0.
"use userspace sound, and be cool like DOS!"
this is so unimaginably stupid. We're talking about servers here. BeOS's network stack won't scale past TWO CPUs. Although they claim they're working on it.
Hahaha. FreeBSD's SMP support is useful as a platform for further development. Linux is at least one generation ahead.
FreeBSD has very coarse grained locks. Linux has fined grained locks. Linux is also about to get a multithreaded TCP/IP stack (2.4).
Please do not post knee-jerk reactions if you are not informed about the topic.
fuck you asswipe
:-)
(s)he is complaining that it did not assert the obvious fact that FreeBSD is ultimately superior in every way to linux, even (or perhaps in this case, especially) in those cases where it is not.
Blow it!!! out yer!!! ass!!!
heh. And theo got axed (from netbsd) for excessive user abuse. If he was much worse than these guys, I'm guessing he used an AK-47 for a LART.
fucker
b
I saw about 4 FreeBSD boxed sets at ChumpUSA today when I was there picking up a cdr
cool where's the cvs?
maybe i should try again now. the other 3 times i try to cvsup and make world with 4.0 i get jacked. it builds ok but then when i restart it get signal 12 errors it really sucks. i dont know what im doing really but it seems like a simple enough process and i cant find much help in any of the docs. i hate myself
why would anyone want to package that hippie shit?
unfortunately, due to the copyrighted undistributable license, there is no cvs. not to worry, though! i'm hard at working testing and tweaking!
USB has been in the FreeBSD kernel for like a
year. NetBSD/FreeBSD beat linux to USB by
a huge margin.
Mommy whats a cock goblin?
|humor|Shhhhh! Don't disturb the FUD masters. |/humor|
I will look for that next time I go there... I've certainly never seen it before (could be an indicator of the
;-)
quality of the CompUSA near me).
Or else maybe they're just always sold out?
All the CompUSAs around Salt Lake have carried it for a while. They usually have some interesting unknown Linux distributions (all the NetMax turnkey system stuff), lots of the major Linux distributions, the FreeBSD pack, and a few Unix apps (BRU, various IDEs, various office applications). Now if they'd just carry Linux games I'd be happy!
Since I'm really not up to date with these things, anyone who is have any thoughts on whether this
/. is just announcing it as news now because it actually happened.
was pushed ahead because of the Debian code freeze?
It wasn't. The FreeBSD 4.0 freeze has been scheduled for a while.
Just FYI, FreeBSD operates on a semi-regular schedule (not as regular as Red Hat, which religiously releases every six months), so releases are more-or-less planned in advance and consist of "whatever we got done in that time," unlike for Debian or the Linux kernel, where releases are usually "whenever we get y working."
This is different from Linux; in some ways it's slower and more restrictive, but I rather like it.
Huh? It's not at all different from Linux. Linux also is developed by a large cadre who sync up their trees at least daily and test changes....
The only difference is the packaging layer through which patch differences are sent. *BSD tends to use CVS, whereas most of the Linux architectures use straight patches (though some of the ports use CVS trees which then get merged to Linus through straight patches). And that's about to change for Linux, since Linus is going to try Larry McVoy's stuff on the kernel.
LOL! No doubt! You're totaly right there. Dunno where this guy got his info; unless he's missing out a lot from not keeping up to date with FreeBSD. Personally, I recommend not just knowing Linux because of all the commercialized hype, (commercialized, as it's becoming) but rather atleast both, if not FreeBSD alone. After all, *BSD is true UNIX & Linux can be good too, just depends for what and who. Each has it's ups and downs in certain areas. CVS and the PORTS collection are just some of my prefered things of *BSD over Linux. Isn't it easier jsut to type `make install' and have something downloaded, configured, installed and running right away! No conflicting libs, troubleshooting that much in depth just to get it working with different or missing libs, different distrobution, etc..? I'd keep my feet wet in both and see what's best suited for your needs. Or what's easier, personally I would say FreeBSD UNIX. Much cleaner development model, I find (personally & professionally speaking). By the way, (never checked into it yet) but does Linux support USB yet? If so, is it as good support as *BSD has had for quite a while now? ;)
Funny...the nearest CompUSA in our neighborhood sells FreeBSD...
IMO, FreeBSD is worth using just for its ports system. Quite simply, package management that
/usr/ports/security/openssh ; make install /usr/local/etc/ssh*_config per your policies /usr/ports/security/openssh ; make
guarantees that 'make install' is enough to get ANYTHING working. It even installs any dependencies
that you might need, all using automatic FTP. Install the ports collection, and you have local makefiles
for anything you would ever need. You can CVS to keep them up to date.
Except that the ports system is less technically advanced than either rpm or deb. Say you do the following:
1. cvsup your ports tree to update it
2. cd
3. edit
4. wait a couple of days
5. repeat step 1, notice that green has added a bunch of patches to openssh
6. cd
Now, if you want to install it, you're in trouble. It's still OpenSSH 1.21, so you have to make deinstall ; make reinstall to install it, which will replace your configuration files.
The Linux package systems solve this by having the packages themselves be versioned--the first install here would have been openssh-1.21-1, while the second would have been openssh-1.21-2, so it knows to only update local changes if it needs to. The FreeBSD package system isn't that smart, however. I notice that a Linux user is complaining about this below in their listing of differences, so I'm not the only one seeing it as a flaw....
You'll miss a little bit of the high-volume development that linux has. However, the BSD development method and style provides a more-robust system. You're sacrificing bells and whistles for speed and stability.
Care to substantiate that at all? I could argue that the *BSDs have more bells and whistles than Linux (USB support in the stable releases, for example). I've also found Linux 2.2 more stable than FreeBSD 3.x but then, I tend to do multithreading over SMP for computation, which isn't FreeBSD's strength.
FreeBSD is at CompUSA(at least the Columbus Circle CompUSA in NYC). I saw it when I was there two weeks ago.
I noticed some comments calling this unbiased. In actuality, it is not. The writer calls UFS slower than ext2fs, for example; he forgets to mention that UFS is also safer and more reliable than ext2fs.
"The point was that BeOS isn't very popular..." Okay as a Beos user I would say thats FUD. How do you know how popular Be is? Go look at bebits.com, there is a ton of software for non-popular os.
That's where I got freebsd..
You meant, competition is a good thing as long as the end result is good for the consumer.
Did you ask one of the friendly and knowledgeable salespeople to help you install it as you were frisked on the way out?
I noticed some comments calling this unbiased. In actuality, it is not. The writer calls UFS slower than ext2fs, for example; he forgets to mention that UFS is also safer and more reliable than ext2fs.
;-) for most operations, though not for things like deleting large directories; of course, *BSD advocates will tell you it's a safer filesystem than ext2
Let's see, (s)he says:
UFS, the FreeBSD file system, is slower than ext2 (even with soft-updates--basically "go faster" stripes you can add in when you recompile your kernel
Umm, hello? Not only did (s)he point out that UFS *is* faster than ext2 for some operations, (s)he also mentioned that some people consider it safer. So, what exactly are you complaining about again?
You are absolutely correct. One of these days, Be might even catch up to Amiga!
yep
This is the price you pay for living in Canada. Once we Americans have absorbed you as a colony, we will replace your forests with parking lots for CompUSA and Wal-Mart. Then you will be able to purchase FreeBSD at a local store.
competition is a good thing.
socialism, a first-rate way to always be second-rate.
If anything thats the other way around.
Go to the freebsd-current archives, this date
was set circa December 15th.
There's no need to spread rumors the other way, either. Debian announced their plan for release back in November.
It's just coincidental that both happened to actually freeze the same day.
I bought a packaged FreeBSD 3.0 set from CompUSA for $99.00. It came with 10 CD's and a book.
Please elaborate upon your claims. Using words with emotionally charged implications is transparent. I believe your logic is flawed. I also believe that you fail to understand that the current state of humanity would not be possible without an efficient means of exchange. Please try seeing in shades instead of black and white.
It is likely that the above comment was purposefully distorting, but I thought I would respond anyway.
And self righteous capitalism is the path to ultimate destruction; what's your point? Balance my friend -- unless of course you do not believe in human equity.
You've also got to be kidding yourself if you think the American system isn't partly socialist. The same automatic stabilizers that are social programs are also in the interest of business; because without consumers they are nothing.
I have two words for you on the topic of Linux kernel configuration:
make menuconfig
I seriously can't believe this.... I've seen FBSD sold in Imbi Plaza, Kajang,Serdang, Ampang Park.. and that's just in the klang valley. unless you live in the boondocks (say, Penang) any pirate-CD shop should have a copy somewhere.. Ask the friendly tokeh for the CD with the cute "setan " on it... You just have to know where to look!!
I just got solaris x86 beta8 and it ROCKS!!
:-)
The NFS is much more advannced and it can scale vbery very well.
IT can even scale as high as 32 processors! Try doing this on a freebsd or linux system. Solaris support is huge in the industry and it even has some old AT&T code in it. I admit the hardware device support is still a little rough but I can turn my pc into a mission critical server with raid options and scsi performance thats 50% faster then linux almost 20% faster then freebsd.
GO order the new solaris 8 beta from SUns website today!
Oh ya. I also have native java support.
I'm a current Linux user who has been itching to try FreeBSD, but I've been waiting for 4.0-final. This means I'm that much closer to getting to try it. yay! :) (There's nothing magical about 4.0, it's just that I don't want to install the 3.4 version, when I know that the much improved and enhanced 4.0 version will soon be here)
Actually, here is Boise, they carry FreeBSD in CompUSA, and not BeOS (unfortunately). I was very pleased to see this, although it'll be a cold day in Hell before I buy ANYTHING from those bastards (CompUSA, not FreeBSD :) )
Too late, Wal Mart has shit itself all over the fucking place here. Hell even the fat ugly people who "shop" there look like americans. God help us. At least if the USA took over BC we could lose this welfare society attitude.
Lars -
FreeBSD SMP was much better than linux's for a while. You have it bass ackwards.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
I think BSDL licensors haven't known what they are doing. The dude that wrote it was no lawyer, though I've seen BSDLed code come out of companies who must have lawyers. I think we need a new-and-improved-lawyer-approved license that explicitly allows the kind of use BSDLed stuff usually gets.
You are talking about how the linux kernel is developed whereas the entire freebsd base system is developed together. developing all the base system together makes detecting and fixing system problems easier because more of it its developed at the same time whereas in linux land there is a linux kernel and a GNU system. Being split like that is good for things like code reuse, but can make solving interoperability problems harder. All in all the differences are superficial because both work to make a quality product.
The support in the 2.2.x kernels is very basic. You'll be better of with a backport of the 2.3.x kernel code:
Usb backport
More information:
Linux USB site
Daily CVS update for the *OS*? And what if someone would make really stupid thing on CVS that will cut off your CVS ability after make world?
And believe me, it's a real PITA to work on a system that more-or-less work, especially if you accidentally hit the "less" part and all your other work stops until that part is corrected.
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Recently installed my first BSD. Almost exactly the same as an average Linux install. The ports part is really nice, but the extra is not so different that I'd abandon my Linux habits fo it. Not used it yet seriously, though. But looks nice, as it should :)
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
'Make oldconfig' will reuse your previous .config file, only asking questions for new options, so you don't have to re-enter the same stuff again. Never heard of that one? I'm surprised.
.config file you may have. I assume 'make menuconfig' (ncurses-based) has the same option.
.config and do a 'make dep' straight away, no need for doing 'make {x,old,menu}config' beforehand. Where do you get the docs to be able to edit .config? You've got the source to the whole damn thing, so read it. Don't stare at me like that, you wanted it the hard way :)
'Make xconfig' (X-based proggy) has the option of importing any
If you really want to edit text files by hand so much, edit your
Since you're using a 386 for a dedicated purpose, you shouldn't have any need for the newer features, so 'make oldconfig' should suit you fine.
I have recompiled the FreeBSD kernel once, and for a first time user, it's definitely much harder than the equivalent process under Linux. No question about that. Under Linux, you can do it any way you like, from mega-macho-text-file-fundamentalist to super-point-n-click-weenie. Under FreeBSD you simply don't.
They already do, if you haven't seen it, then it's been bought out. There should be "FreeBSD Powerpacks" available at most major software retailers. If they don't have it, then ask.
- Alfred Perlstein - Programmer and Administrator, Wintelcom.
Linux is not committed to following unix standards, it's "sort-of posix" "sort-of unix" it's really none-of-the-above.
I applaud Linux on having the gall to step up and say "these standards are stupid and holding us back", however in the same breath they are ditching the guarantees that unix promises.
Linux is _not_ unix, don't fool yourself.
Specific examples include write atomicity, and FS stability issues.
- Alfred Perlstein - Programmer and Administrator, Wintelcom.
I can't speak for the reset of the linux community, but I for one welcome improvement in freebsd. I do not welcome the spreading of FUD by a community that I think has much more to gain as brethern. It seems a good portion of the *bsd community is too busy being eleetist to show any respect for Linux or its user base. Which is fine if thats how they feel.. however I will continue to ask for facts instead of "feelings" and baseless opinions.
-- You can be a geeklord too
Wow feel the hate.. This is exactly what I meant. FUD, no facts.. "LINUX CRASHES IN 30 SECONDS ON OUR NETWORK" . there are web sites doing HUGE volumes of traffic without any problems on Linux. etoys (you know the one that supported all those xmas shoppers??) went without a hickup this christmas season. My position still stands.. the day a *bsd user shows me some creditable evidence that *bsd is a superior system is the day I eat my shorts. p.s. It's interesting that my post got moderated down to "troll". :)
-- You can be a geeklord too
Was in reference to the common theme among the &bsd posters on slashdot :)
-- You can be a geeklord too
Do you have some examples of how FreeBsd has better MAN pages then Linux? I would like to do some research on this, as it sounds like it *might* have some evidence? And if it can be proven to be true then hell I might even help resolve that issue for you :)
-- You can be a geeklord too
Granted it was off topic, and thus the RANT ON RANT OFF was an attempt on my part to counter that. You are right, that this is not a court of law, nor would I expect it to be ran as such. However I think opinions are well and good as long as they are stated as such. When someone goes on to say "Linux is unstable and a toy os, and oh by the way its not a real UNIX anyways" People who do not know better believe it. Hell I know a number of X linux users who switched to freebsd for no other reason then they heard Linux was unsecure and unstable. Never had any evidence other then what they heard. It's like the old saying goes. It's much easier to believe something Bad then someting Good. It is easier to deface a painting then it is to repair it. However for the most part I agree with you.
-- You can be a geeklord too
If you have hacked on both kernels why are you unaware that Linus and Alan both have stated that it is not the kernels job to protect against the root user. Wether you agree with this or not, this is the instead intent, and this is why Xfree can crash the system. It has nothing to do with "bad code" unless you are saying their decision is wrong? If so I think it would be your place to justify why it is wrong.
-- You can be a geeklord too
No he did not, re-read the post again.
-- You can be a geeklord too
RANT ON
The day a *bsd users comes out with a solid conclusive arguement as for why *bsd is a superiorly designed system is the day I will eat my own shorts.
*bsd has it's good points, and it's bad points like any operating system.
The fact that it is a "TRUE UNIX" is not one of them, however it's CAM SCSI subsystem is.
The majority of what you hear these days as to why Freebsd is superior to linux are out dated myths, much like found on a certain microsoft web page.
Linux's networking stack was completely redesigned for Linux 2.2, and *bsd advocates would be hard pressed to outline how the current BSD networking stack is superior.
I have seen no evidence to support Freebsd being more stable, more secure or faster. I would like to see some, comparing current versions of both OS's.
Reading freebsd's release notes shows that freebsd is not immune to security holes, or system failures. And seeing as freebsd ships with about 1/3rd of the installed applications its not surprising there are slightly less security anouncements (they stick everything in ports, and if you use something from ports it is at your own risk).
In summary I would very much like to hear some hard supporting facts rather then rantings by those *bsd users who complain about linux not being a real unix, and it being a toy os.. and how it's insecure, unstable.. and definitly not as well designed as *bsd.
p.s. seeing as freebsd is based off a OS (BSD 4.4) which has had 20? some years to evolve and stabilize that linux has done extreamly well to (in my opinion) match freebsd in most areas and surpass it in others.
RANT OFF/
-- You can be a geeklord too
Torx is obviously a better implementation, but has the problem that a lot of people don't own Torx drivers. It even does a good job of holding the screw for you in most instances. It's main downfall is its lack of a critical mass of installed users.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
The 4.0 isn't necessarily the upgrade path from 3.4. 4.0 is a release from the CURRENT branch, whereas 3.4 is a release from the STABLE branch. Unless you really want to be on the cutting edge, or you really need a facility that is only in CURRENT, then it probably makes sense to stay with STABLE for the moment.
Im sorry, but thats just retarded. Amiga is dying, BeOS is getting better, who would want BeOS to 'catch up' to Amiga? Plus BeOS is not designed as a replacement OS like all misinformed seem to think it is. I run BeOS on one drive and Win98 on the other just because I like BeOS for development and Win for gaming..
"Even BeOS"? BeOS is not Oper Sourced and therefore can only be purchased in a store and cannot be downloaded for free (excluding warez) online. Where would one purchase BeOS if not in a store? Thats where many people hear of products that otherwise they would have no idea existed.
I would think not.
Even if they saw themselves as a direct competitor to Debian theyd have no reason to push it ahead and have more problems.. then nobody would want to use it.
Here's my attempt at humor. You're opinion may vary...
Little boy: Mommy! Mommy! there's a c***-goblin under my bed!!!
Mother: No dear, thats just a troll.
BSD *IS* Linux! -- Re:Why is this "news" here?
Despite the names, BSD and Linux development is interwoven. Both benefit from each other. Please educate yourself on the history of BSD and Linux.
Understand that I'm a pro-GPL'er. I prefer GPL licensed code. But without a number of the BSD, artistic and other licensed code out there, Linux would not be complete.
There is a good ammount of code exchanged between Linux and FreeBSD. If anything, start with the Net2/3 code.
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
Independent Author, Consultant and Trainer
You can use XFree86 for your X. Note that if Solaris x86 supports hires VESA modes you might do fine (no way but to try it).
Take care with laptops which are more "exotic" with their BIOS structure, e.g. with their peripheral and APM handling.
One other option you could try is to run UnixWare 7.1.1. It generally has decent laptop support, asnd is a full SVR4 (5) system, with CDE,Motif and all the other stuff. Faster than Solaris on x86, and has far better hardware support.
You can get an "educational" license from SCO's site. If you can't get a media set you might have to order one from SCO.
One gotcha with UnixWare is the while 7.1.1 is coming out now, if you install 7.1.0 you'll have to install something like 30 patches to make it 100% mission critical. If you just need it as a client system (e.g. laptop or desktop), you'll just have to install about 10.
Um... You can already buy FreeBSD at CompUSA.
This is exactly what I've been looking for for a long time... an unbiased, OS-bigotry-free comparison of Linux and FreeBSD. I was beginning to think that I wasn't going to find one. Thanks.
Well, it's pretty darn obvious where you stopped reading. :P
I wouldn't be caught dead buying anything from Borders. It's about as bad as Walden Books, only bigger. The selection is crap, the stores are tasteless, and they force many smaller (and much better! For people in the Worcester, Mass area, compare Tatnuck and Borders: Borders can't hold a candle to Tatnuck in variety, customer service, or taste) bookstores out of business.
You're a suburbanite.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
AFAIK, it's not a code freeze, but a feature freeze.
(8-DCS)
Ok, well, if you want, make your own BSD distribution, and GPL it. You can do that, the BSD license allows you to do such a thing I believe. Has anyone done it? No, because the GPL doesn't promote the truest sense of free, taking without giving. Granted its not necesarily the nicest to take and not give back, but the point is you *CAN*
> Daily CVS update for the *OS*?
Yes.
> And what if someone would make really
> stupid thing on CVS that will cut off
> your CVS ability after make world?
What if some person did ? Hmm... AHA! You would _fix_it_.
> especially if you accidentally hit
> the "less" part and all your other
> work stops until that part is
> corrected.
Yeah, that's a bummer. But that's RELEASE QUALITY SOFTWARE for you.
Wow. Was that a flame?
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
I seriously can't believe this.... I've seen FBSD sold in Imbi Plaza, Kajang,Serdang, Ampang Park.. and that's just in the klang valley. unless
That's the point you miss. We're talking of the original stuff released by Walnut Creek. Not some ripoff sold by a scam artist which I must add is only in business because worms patronize his warez.
If you have ever installed an older Linux distro, or a newer Debian, you will have no trouble with FreeBSD.
There is a lot of very good online documentation available too, some of it much better than available for Linux.
FreeBSD is interesting because it is generally faster and more stabile than Linux from my experience. However, it is not as good for using as a personal/workstation OS. To be honest, I can see few reasons why Linux would be better than FreeBSD for server functions, but in actuality they are not that far apart.
Hope this helps... it is late, ugh
EverCode
I'm wondering if trying out FreeBSD would be at all interesting? How much help is there with installation problems? HOWTOs?
Wah!
Where ya from? Randolph here.
Matt
Debian had a set freeze date since Novemember? I thought they played it by eye.
-bugg
I can speak for Free and Net's USB stack, and Free's drivers... Both are coming along quite well, getting better and better every day (Free imported Net's stack and worked from there, and of course Net is taking major improvements back into itself)..
As for support:
Human Interface Devices (anything with buttons and dials)
Keyboards and Mice
Printers
Iomega Zip 100 Drive
The ADMtek USB ethernet devices.. these are the LinkSys USB100TX, Billionton USB100, the Melco LU-ATX, the D-Link DSB-650TX, the SMV 2202USB, and the ADMtek AN986 Pegasus evaluation board.
The CATC USB-EL1201 USB ethernet devices.. these are the CATC Netmate, Netmate II, and the Belkin F5U111.
KLSI's ethernet devices.. Linksys USB10T, Entrega USB-NET-E45, Peracom Ethernet Adapter, the 3Com 3c19250, the ADS Technologies USB-10BT, the ATen UC10T, the Netgear EA101, the D-Link DSB-650, the SMB 2102USB and 2014USB, and the Corega USB-T.
And thats it.
-bugg
If anything thats the other way around.
Go to the freebsd-current archives, this date
was set circa December 15th.
And the -CURRENT feature freeze started the 15th, a day BEFORE debian.
Slashdot just isn't the quickest on BSD things all the time, you have to understand.
-bugg
And the person to blame for adding in support for 17 USB nics is Bill (William) Paul (wpaul), who
likes to go by Anti-Bill.
-bugg
As a nice little side-note, I started using FreeBSD because Linux didn't support my nic [well].. I'm not sure if things have changed since then, to be honest.. Its an Intel Etherexpess PRO/10+
Not as if I'd switch back now, I'm hooked. ;)
-bugg
I don't think I've ever seen so much information about the differences between BSD and Linux before. Some I've seen before, but that looks like a very comprehensive list without the usual biases (one way or the other). Thank you very much, I've been looking for something like that for ages! :)
The fact that it is something to get excited about (reaching 100% potato status) is not a good sign. I know how difficult it is (I did it myself once): congratulations, you've been extremely lucky to get this done.
Still, FreeBSD's cvsup + make world is much simpeler and more predictable.
Anyone know what's new in 4.0??
Anyway, what's up with that two week freeze period? Isn't that a little short?
"Bernoulli was wrong. X proves that you can fill a vacuum, yet still it sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
don't moderate me down, it's a waste of time!
Don't worry, i think the moderators are out of points. It's called a DOM (Denial of moderation) attack.
"Bernoulli was wrong. X proves that you can fill a vacuum, yet still it sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
Since I'm really not up to date with these things, anyone who is have any thoughts on whether this was pushed ahead because of the Debian code freeze?
I would hope no, and it probably is mere coincidence, but just scanning the stories here, this stuck out at me.
Why should the FreeBSD maintainers care about the Debian freeze?
Why is everybody freezing in the winter??
BTW, the Transmeta homepage is updated. Now that is news!!
"Bernoulli was wrong. X proves that you can fill a vacuum, yet still it sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
[BAD JOKE]
London drugs??
Isn't that where they sell packaged versions of Enlightenment and Xfree86??
[/BAD JOKE]
"Bernoulli was wrong. X proves that you can fill a vacuum, yet still it sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
Given that 4.0 was declared back when 3.1 was officially released, back at the beginning of last year, this announcement is just part of the continued development of FreeBSD.
And, when 4.X ships, I'm sure the new version 5.0 will start development, and we'll see 3.4 become the final stable version (or close to) of the 3.X tree. And 4.X will be the latest and greatest.
And the movement forward of FreeBSD will continue.
The BSD development watches linux for the compatiblity mode, and for the occational code idea.
But, why WOULD a linux release matter to BSD? And, why are you not asking 'Did the Debian code freeze occur due to a pending BSD code freeze?'
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I would hope no, and it probably is mere coincidence, but just scanning the stories here, this stuck out at me.
Not to mention the prices for cd's, christ they want $17 for most new ones.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Just wondering, can't find useful data on the web to tell me.
I would love to see it in Future Shop and London Drugs as well, for the Vancouver (lower mainland atleast) area of BC, Canada. Any suggestions on how I can maybe get them to do it?
does anyone know of a decent pointy clicky or curses info viewer?)
:-)
pinfo. It made me like info pages
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
If I understand correctly, the reason FreeBSD does not use DOS-Extended is because it's just that, DOS. BSD style slices may have been a great idea in the past, but new harddrives are large enough to hold multiple and complete operating systems. It's getting harder and harder to give each OS it's own primary partition under 1024 cylinders. But harddrives are also cheap enough to give each OS it's own drive (at Fry's yesterday there was a 4.5Gig drive cheaper than the Win98 upgrade).
:-)
I blew away Windows so that FreeBSD would have it's own harddrive, and I've not regretted it one bit
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Now they announce the 4.0 freeze just one week after I shelled out $39.95 for 3.4. I guess it's time to subscribe...
:-) It's pointless to ask if *BSD can do this, that or the other, because it can. The installation was very easy, and anyone who has ever done an old-fashioned Linux text-based install will have no problem. The disk partioning scheme is a bit different. FreeBSD will not use logical partitions, so don't expect to install it to hda8 :-)
Anyway, for newbies to FreeBSD (and I am certainly still one of them), you will find that it is yet another Unix
And one feature I exceedingly like is the size of FreeBSD. Like Slackware (my other OS), the core of FreeBSD is very small and minimal. You can install it in about 10 minutes. Unlike R*, D*, or S*, you don't have to wade through thousands of packages for a custom install. You can do that afterwards if you want. This may not seem like a big deal to some people, but thousands of packages to choose from can be intimidating to newbies.
And it has a Linux compatibility package, so you can run those closed source Linux apps like Civ:CTP and WP8.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
That's what finally swung it for me: on FreeBSD you can guarantee that random command "foo" that you found in /usr/sbin has a man page.
On Linux, you've got roughly a 50/50 chance if you installed a decent distribution. Failing that, there might be a HOWTO. Or maybe some dude with a web page he knocked up one afternoon to tell you what the flags mean.
It's maybe a small thing, but it makes the world of difference.
If I may quote Jordan from the freebsd-arch mailing list:
>> By the way, feature freeze 15th means
>> -can put some feature until 14th midnight?
>> or
>> -can put some feature until 15th midnight?
>Feature freeze means that no new feature work should be started. Work
>already in progress, like IPv6, can proceed right
>up to the code >freeze date.
>- Jordan
-Dom