Yeah, I remember being horrified at the event and even more so when I found out that they never admitted it was their responsibility. And we wonder why everyone plays the blame game with all their problems....cause our corporations are great role models....
Man, I almost fell for that one. If it weren't for them talking about the Yes Men and the hoax on that page, I'd have been telling everyone that everything was made alright. I had been talking about the Bhopal incident a couple months ago and am still amazed by how much damage was done and yet nobody has been forced to stand accountable. I find it hard to believe that "we" want something like the WTO to make fair trade for Starbum's coffee but they seem to miss taking any action on gross miscarriages of justice like Bhopal.
That's not even a point in what we were discussing because, whether you would like to admit it or not, there *are* people using OCR-like software to handle the captchas. I've used it so it's not a rumor and since it's cheaper to buy a $30 piece of software than pay for the bandwidth of a porn site, I'm betting we see it used a lot more than you might imagine.
Besides, what you are implying is that any method we choose is going to be bypassed by these spammers and that we shouldn't even bother slowing them down. As someone who's well aware that no form of security is absolutely going to keep every-single-attacker out, I'm fine with making their job harder and more costly than it has to be even if only for a short while. That's fine though, if you don't want our help, you can stop complaining about spam because the sky's not falling in our part of the world.
crap..hit the wrong button was supposed to have been "preview"...was trying to get the html to accept the color red for the word "Green". Maybe there's a font filter for html here? I dunno.
I actually don't see why one couldn't autogenerate the questions. Setup a database of different classes of items ie colors, numbers, letters, etc. and then a simple method of creating the questions like:
which is colored red? Green, red, blue
which is not a number? four, six, 11, 95, alpha
and such..
Yeah, that's my take on it. The only way anyone would be able to get a patent is if it TRULY were a non-obvious invention which kinda is the goal of all this so I can't think of a good reason not to handle it this way.
Of course if the public is gonna help the PTO, the costs to apply should be GREATLY reduced, if not nullified. I mean it costs $30 or so to copyright a work but $10k or more to patent something!?!? The copyright will last your lifetime and it goes through almost zero scrutiny to check for plagiarism, etc. but a patent lasts, what, 17 years and takes forever to get issued. I know I have at least 100 inventions I'd like to get patented and then license them, cheaply, to let the public use them...but the cost of patenting means they will likely die with me.
I see your point but I would think that the process would delay a patent being issued until ALL of the possible examples of prior art had been examined. If a corp knows that, they're not gonna want to delay their own patent being issued so that would fix that problem. The only thing you'd be left with is the group of corps trying to delay each others and private inventors' patents.
What if the public is only allowed to declare if there is possibly prior art, not take part in the actual approval process itself? Are these corps gonna hire people SIMPLY to find prior art to invalidate patents? If so, we'll have a LOT fewer patents and that might not be such a bad thing. I mean that IS the goal, right. And yes, while it would enable the corps to attempt to lock-out private inventors, it is also a two way street.
You missed: "His body had 11 gunshot wounds to the chest, blunt trauma to the head, and 45 stab wounds in the back and spine....Police have ruled it a suicide.":D
Since when? Last time I was there my friend was arrested for carrying one in the *trunk* of his car(despite my objections) while we were simply passing through the state. The mace and the tiny pocket knife I was carrying were also illegal but I didn't get charged, and neither did my friend who had a "billy club", which was nothing more than a damn stick(we still don't understand that one). The officer was sure to show us the charges in the book of statutes. Has something changed I don't know about? They even made owning a flare gun illegal back in the 90's, IIRC.
I'm really not concerned with that, myself. The issue is less about whether there was a conspiracy and more about what are we DOING about it. I don't want to talk about how it happened, I want the monkey and all his cronies out of the Whitehouse since it's more than obvious that it was gross incompetence at the very least. So I can either choose to argue about what happened, or I can choose to do something that sees that it doesn't have much chance to happen again.
Please note the word "exactly"(I sent that last one waaay too early). If someone has only heard 3 shots in their life but thought they heard 10(say the rest of the episodes were fireworks), they aren't reliable as witnesses for what a gunshot sounds like. I've fired a gun many times at a firing range and know what they sound like, most people from NYC don't have that kind of experience; they have heard things they suspect were gunshots but unless they were eyewitness to it, they aren't good candidates for testimony. Same goes for those who say they heard "explosions". How many in NYC have heard an honest explosion of that magnitude and actually KNOWN that's what it was as opposed to guessing at it?
For example, a lady whose name I now forget did some research on how someone's testimony could be influenced by language. So she showed 20 people a video of a car hitting another car. She split the group in two and asked each 10 the same question but changed one word. "how fast would you estimate the first car was going when it crashed into the other car" and "how fast would you estimate the first car was going when it *smashed*(emphasis mine) into the other car". The people who answered the second question always estimated about 10-20 mph faster than the first.
How about I put it this way. Around here, we know what gunfire sounds like for the most part because we hear it a "lot" since it's legal to use them for legit purposes but in other parts of the country/world where they are forbidden no matter what use, the people aren't gonna have the experience to know exactly what they heard.
And how do you backup your statements when they discredit you, as you know they would, if you cease to exist to anyone outside of Gitmo? Remember, we're talking about someone refusing to scramble jets regardless of whether there is an actual life threatening incident to scramble them for. If there was, an incident, you could be dismissed as a prankster(wouldn't be the first), and if there wasn't then there'd be nothing for you to subtantiate your claims since no one would know or care about it. And if you've already been suspected of something as you claim, you will get to watch from your torture chamber as they drag you and your family's name through the dirt. True power is knowing when to just shut your mouth and at least ACT submissive to their power. And besides, if you're locked up for the rest of your life for a Patriot Act "violation" what does it matter? Right now they could say that JFK was killed by the CIA and there aren't going to be riots in the streets because waay too much time has passed...and you're not JFK so getting more than a couple people with signs in front of the Whitehouse isn't likely in even 1 year much less 10. Better think about all the consequences of your actions. I already had a friend who got locked up for threatening Bush...he tells me the first thing they did was give him a psych eval and used that to trash him and his family. But like they say, if you feel froggie...jump...it ain't MY life.
"The fault is with the chain of command- and if they try to fight back against you, well, take your story to the public, we'll see how long that general lasts in his job having endangered civilians for a military exercise."
Ever heard of a gag order or how long it takes the military to get one? They'd claim it involved national security and so you'd be out of a job and in jail(or Gitmo) if you opened your mouth. And generals don't often lose their jobs for that kind of stuff, or have you not noticed that yet?
Well life often isn't what we THINK it is. There are many reasons to NOT scramble an intercept in such a case but few looking to say it was a conspiracy will bother finding what they are. Some military exercises come to mind as an example and it takes a lot of phone calls to get a straight answer as to whether one is even happening. Care to take a guess how long you'd have your job if you scrambled jets and didn't check the chain of command?
I'm not an expert by any means but I think I read that the reasoning is because it takes quite a while to even determine that a plane has gone off course, etc. I know they supposedly made it a bit more efficient to get jets in the air to intercept but it's still not what most people expect.
Since most people can't distinguish between sudden loud noises and explosions, I wouldn't trust most of them. However eye witnesses can easily distinguish between a 757 and a missile. In that stupid movie Loose Change, the producer's agenda was clear when he repeatedly had cuts of people saying "I heard an explosion" because you never heard someone state "I heard a loud noise" in the video at all. When people are in shock, they do not have the mental capacity to keep track of and remember everything that happens especially events that they didn't have a clear grasp of and if they hear someone on the street utter "explosion" then that's the new word they have for those noises. Think of it as a form of mob mentality or a strange game of "Telephone" where the original message gets mixed up when someone messes it up. I would venture that it's a safe bet to say that most people who experienced 9/11 on a first/secondhand basis were in shock.
To illustrate, you could come hang out by my house when a semi-truck passes over a certain section of the road, they always make a HORRIFIC noise that sounds like gunfire and sometimes explosions. It's loud enough to be heard over my stereo at full volume. I wouldn't trust someone from NY to tell me that the sound was gunfire because, since guns are illegal there, most don't have the experience to know what they are talking about.
Want something really bizaare to think about? Find the fnord here: "As for racism, I don't know if nor do I care...". Say it and you can hear it. Yes, I know..too many nights stoned with the Pricipia Discordia in hand.
While I'm sure that someone is going to state that NORAD could respond within 10 minutes of a plane deviating from its flight plan, this is actually not the case as according to the chain of command that is required to get interceptors in the air will take the better part of 1 hour. Typically someone will cite the Payne Stewart incident but that didn't really happen in 11 minutes, it was more like 1 hr and 11 minutes since the plane crossed from Eastern to Central time; this is documented, though not overtly mentioned in the report so most think it was 11 minutes.
"At 0933:38 EDT (6 minutes and 20 seconds after N47BA acknowledged the previous clearance), the controller instructed N47BA to change radio frequencies and contact another Jacksonville ARTCC controller. The controller received no response from N47BA. The controller called the flight five more times over the next 4 1/2 minutes but received no response.
About 0952 CDT,7 a USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base (AFB), Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA. About 0954 CDT, at a range of 2,000 feet from the accident airplane and an altitude of about 46,400 feet, the test pilot made two radio calls to N47BA but did not receive a response".
www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm
However, that being said, whether it was negligence or conspiracy, the thing we need to concentrate on is that WE NEED THAT MONKEY OUT OF THE WHITEHOUSE!!!
hey man, thanks for that link to the video. I've been a "supporter" of NORML for a while now but wasn't aware that anyone had organized on the LEO side of things. I'm spreading this like wildfire.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, I remember being horrified at the event and even more so when I found out that they never admitted it was their responsibility. And we wonder why everyone plays the blame game with all their problems....cause our corporations are great role models....
Man, I almost fell for that one. If it weren't for them talking about the Yes Men and the hoax on that page, I'd have been telling everyone that everything was made alright. I had been talking about the Bhopal incident a couple months ago and am still amazed by how much damage was done and yet nobody has been forced to stand accountable. I find it hard to believe that "we" want something like the WTO to make fair trade for Starbum's coffee but they seem to miss taking any action on gross miscarriages of justice like Bhopal.
Besides, what you are implying is that any method we choose is going to be bypassed by these spammers and that we shouldn't even bother slowing them down. As someone who's well aware that no form of security is absolutely going to keep every-single-attacker out, I'm fine with making their job harder and more costly than it has to be even if only for a short while. That's fine though, if you don't want our help, you can stop complaining about spam because the sky's not falling in our part of the world.
crap..hit the wrong button was supposed to have been "preview"...was trying to get the html to accept the color red for the word "Green". Maybe there's a font filter for html here? I dunno.
which is colored red? Green, red, blue
which is not a number? four, six, 11, 95, alpha
and such..
Of course if the public is gonna help the PTO, the costs to apply should be GREATLY reduced, if not nullified. I mean it costs $30 or so to copyright a work but $10k or more to patent something!?!? The copyright will last your lifetime and it goes through almost zero scrutiny to check for plagiarism, etc. but a patent lasts, what, 17 years and takes forever to get issued. I know I have at least 100 inventions I'd like to get patented and then license them, cheaply, to let the public use them...but the cost of patenting means they will likely die with me.
I see your point but I would think that the process would delay a patent being issued until ALL of the possible examples of prior art had been examined. If a corp knows that, they're not gonna want to delay their own patent being issued so that would fix that problem. The only thing you'd be left with is the group of corps trying to delay each others and private inventors' patents.
What if the public is only allowed to declare if there is possibly prior art, not take part in the actual approval process itself? Are these corps gonna hire people SIMPLY to find prior art to invalidate patents? If so, we'll have a LOT fewer patents and that might not be such a bad thing. I mean that IS the goal, right. And yes, while it would enable the corps to attempt to lock-out private inventors, it is also a two way street.
You missed: "His body had 11 gunshot wounds to the chest, blunt trauma to the head, and 45 stab wounds in the back and spine....Police have ruled it a suicide." :D
Since when? Last time I was there my friend was arrested for carrying one in the *trunk* of his car(despite my objections) while we were simply passing through the state. The mace and the tiny pocket knife I was carrying were also illegal but I didn't get charged, and neither did my friend who had a "billy club", which was nothing more than a damn stick(we still don't understand that one). The officer was sure to show us the charges in the book of statutes. Has something changed I don't know about? They even made owning a flare gun illegal back in the 90's, IIRC.
BOFH anyone?
I'm really not concerned with that, myself. The issue is less about whether there was a conspiracy and more about what are we DOING about it. I don't want to talk about how it happened, I want the monkey and all his cronies out of the Whitehouse since it's more than obvious that it was gross incompetence at the very least. So I can either choose to argue about what happened, or I can choose to do something that sees that it doesn't have much chance to happen again.
For example, a lady whose name I now forget did some research on how someone's testimony could be influenced by language. So she showed 20 people a video of a car hitting another car. She split the group in two and asked each 10 the same question but changed one word. "how fast would you estimate the first car was going when it crashed into the other car" and "how fast would you estimate the first car was going when it *smashed*(emphasis mine) into the other car". The people who answered the second question always estimated about 10-20 mph faster than the first.
How about I put it this way. Around here, we know what gunfire sounds like for the most part because we hear it a "lot" since it's legal to use them for legit purposes but in other parts of the country/world where they are forbidden no matter what use, the people aren't gonna have the experience to know exactly what they heard.
And how do you backup your statements when they discredit you, as you know they would, if you cease to exist to anyone outside of Gitmo? Remember, we're talking about someone refusing to scramble jets regardless of whether there is an actual life threatening incident to scramble them for. If there was, an incident, you could be dismissed as a prankster(wouldn't be the first), and if there wasn't then there'd be nothing for you to subtantiate your claims since no one would know or care about it. And if you've already been suspected of something as you claim, you will get to watch from your torture chamber as they drag you and your family's name through the dirt. True power is knowing when to just shut your mouth and at least ACT submissive to their power. And besides, if you're locked up for the rest of your life for a Patriot Act "violation" what does it matter? Right now they could say that JFK was killed by the CIA and there aren't going to be riots in the streets because waay too much time has passed...and you're not JFK so getting more than a couple people with signs in front of the Whitehouse isn't likely in even 1 year much less 10. Better think about all the consequences of your actions. I already had a friend who got locked up for threatening Bush...he tells me the first thing they did was give him a psych eval and used that to trash him and his family. But like they say, if you feel froggie...jump...it ain't MY life.
Ever heard of a gag order or how long it takes the military to get one? They'd claim it involved national security and so you'd be out of a job and in jail(or Gitmo) if you opened your mouth. And generals don't often lose their jobs for that kind of stuff, or have you not noticed that yet?
Well life often isn't what we THINK it is. There are many reasons to NOT scramble an intercept in such a case but few looking to say it was a conspiracy will bother finding what they are. Some military exercises come to mind as an example and it takes a lot of phone calls to get a straight answer as to whether one is even happening. Care to take a guess how long you'd have your job if you scrambled jets and didn't check the chain of command?
No, there *was* debris outside but it's hard to see what you want to ignore in order to further an agenda.
I'm not an expert by any means but I think I read that the reasoning is because it takes quite a while to even determine that a plane has gone off course, etc. I know they supposedly made it a bit more efficient to get jets in the air to intercept but it's still not what most people expect.
To illustrate, you could come hang out by my house when a semi-truck passes over a certain section of the road, they always make a HORRIFIC noise that sounds like gunfire and sometimes explosions. It's loud enough to be heard over my stereo at full volume. I wouldn't trust someone from NY to tell me that the sound was gunfire because, since guns are illegal there, most don't have the experience to know what they are talking about.
Want something really bizaare to think about? Find the fnord here: "As for racism, I don't know if nor do I care...". Say it and you can hear it. Yes, I know..too many nights stoned with the Pricipia Discordia in hand.
"At 0933:38 EDT (6 minutes and 20 seconds after N47BA acknowledged the previous clearance), the controller instructed N47BA to change radio frequencies and contact another Jacksonville ARTCC controller. The controller received no response from N47BA. The controller called the flight five more times over the next 4 1/2 minutes but received no response.
About 0952 CDT,7 a USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base (AFB), Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA. About 0954 CDT, at a range of 2,000 feet from the accident airplane and an altitude of about 46,400 feet, the test pilot made two radio calls to N47BA but did not receive a response".
www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm
However, that being said, whether it was negligence or conspiracy, the thing we need to concentrate on is that WE NEED THAT MONKEY OUT OF THE WHITEHOUSE!!!
FTFA:Five of the seven staff worked on the top floor of the building.
But you're right, it's likely not radon.
Lighten up a bit. I think the GP was being somewhat facetious.
hey man, thanks for that link to the video. I've been a "supporter" of NORML for a while now but wasn't aware that anyone had organized on the LEO side of things. I'm spreading this like wildfire.