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IBM and Fuji Announce Tape Storage Breakthrough

robkill writes "IBM and Fuji have announced a breakthrough in the amount of data that can be stored on magnetic tape, a 15X improvement to 6.67 billion bits of data per square inch. IBM estimates that it will be 5 years before this hits the mass market"

254 comments

  1. Death? by UnixSphere · · Score: 2, Funny

    When will tape die?

    1. Re:Death? by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 1

      NEVER!

    2. Re:Death? by HardCase · · Score: 1

      Ask Netcraft...

    3. Re:Death? by Draconix · · Score: 2, Funny

      When someone walks by with a magnet in their pocket?

      --
      By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
    4. Re:Death? by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When a 500 GB hard drive costs $75, can be thrown across the room and have a chance of working, weighs the same as a tape and can be easily inserted/removed in bulk with software management and barcode readers to keep track of it all for you.

      Until then, tape will stick around. I have a feeling it might be a while.

    5. Re:Death? by TrevorB · · Score: 1

      We're honestly not that far away from $75 500GB hard drives. Another 2-3 years, perhaps.

      I'm honestly surprised that the state of optical media has progressed so slowly though. BlueRay and HD may seem very large, but considering the size of our hard drives, I'd be happier if 5 inch CD formfactor media could store on the order of ~100GB.

    6. Re:Death? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      When a 500 GB hard drive costs $75, can be thrown across the room and have a chance of working, weighs the same as a tape and can be easily inserted/removed in bulk with software management and barcode readers to keep track of it all for you. As far as the price is concerned, you're probably looking at a couple of years from now (and this tape isan't available now, either).

    7. Re:Death? by digitalunity · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which is just as good, the sheer size obtainable using tape drives is just mind boggling.

      On a side note, this article wasn't just light on details, it was shockingly devoid of all technical details as to how this was acheived. At least this article mentions the new density is acheived with a new tape medium coating.

      Sheesh, the linked story might be interesting to stock-market droids, not slashdot readers.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    8. Re:Death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sarcastic yet ironic at the same time.
      nice troll!

    9. Re:Death? by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'm honestly surprised that the state of optical media has progressed so slowly though. BlueRay and HD may seem very large, but considering the size of our hard drives, I'd be happier if 5 inch CD formfactor media could store on the order of ~100GB.

      There's also some advantage in separating the storage medium from the read/write heads. If either part in a hard drive fails, you're literally fscked (except for some really expensive recovery solutions by Ibas or the like). On the other hand, you can always put an optical disc in a brand new drive. And if a disc is scratched beyond readability in your current drive, chances are you can read it with another drive in the future.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    10. Re:Death? by GrayFox777 · · Score: 1

      Uh.... I just looked up tape drives. They're pretty damn expensive. I thought they would be kinda cheap since they've been around for so long.

    11. Re:Death? by Tired+and+Emotional · · Score: 1

      When will tape die? - immediately after you write to it.

      Tape is a write only medium. Upping densities will just make it worse.

      --
      Squirrel!
    12. Re:Death? by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem with tape is that the capacity sucks relative to what you're backing up. The biggest tapes (as best I could find in a quick web search) hold 400GB each. The hard drive in my desktop is 500GB. My desktop's drives total 750GB. It would take two full tapes to do a single full backup.

      The industry predicts that with the newer drive head technologies coming out, HD capacity will double every 12 months. This means that:

      1 year: 1 TB
      2 years: 2TB
      3 years: 4 TB
      4 years: 8 TB
      5 years: 16 TB

      So with this new technology, the tape capacity will still have slipped from 80% of the capacity of the largest single drive to 50% of the capacity of the largest single drive. And this ignores things like perpendicular storage, which have the potential to add an order of magnitude to all of those numbers.

      When they said "15x the current capacity," my first thought was "When can I get one?" When they said "5 years," my second thought was "By then, 15x the current capacity will be too small." 400 GB takes 83 square feet. At tape densities, my laptop hard drive would take up half my office.... When are backup storage vendors going to actually get ahead of the density curve instead of lagging decades behind?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    13. Re:Death? by Shivetya · · Score: 1

      When all the governments of the world cease to exist. We maintain specific types of tape drives just because of different agencies we have to deal with. We have some "lowest denominator" type drives just in case. (lots of fun when one file can span a hundred tapes and the dorks that want it only can use that tape type)

      We keep end of quarter and end of year tapes till they no longer function, and then we keep them because we are too afraid to rid ourselves of them.

      Tapes are actually one of our lower cost forms of insurance. We keep 5 weeks of production data on tape at any one time. This is in addition to mirroring to a high availability system AND a disaster recovery system. Those last two items are for the here and now. The tape is for the "when" which is what no other medium offers efficiently, access to the past in easy to store and durable form.

      We put selected documents (invoices, etc) to DvD. Even then the number of DvDs that we store is mind boggling. The density is just not there to store much of anything else except items with less than a years age that may be needed for dispute resolution. Even the upcoming "Blu Ray" and "HD DVD" standards will not offer the storage capacity needed or perhaps the most important element, speed. Today's tape drives can put away data quickly. Combine this with tape libraries that use multiple drives and multi terabyte systems can feasibly be backed up on a daily basis.

      --
      * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    14. Re:Death? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      BOFH anyone?

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    15. Re:Death? by loraksus · · Score: 1

      When a 500 GB hard drive costs $75, can be thrown across the room and have a chance of working

      I have yet to see a tape that could survive being thrown across the room.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    16. Re:Death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cartridge may not last, but the tape inside will probably be just fine - and so will the data.

    17. Re:Death? by FlameboyC11 · · Score: 1

      Do you change 500gb a day? The backup solution I've used in the past can keep a record of file changes and then backup what has changed since the last one. No need for an exact copy each day, just one at the start.

    18. Re:Death? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      When will tape die? - immediately after you write to it.

      Tape is a write only medium. Upping densities will just make it worse.


      Sounds like you have only used consumer- and SOHO-grade tape drives.

      Business-class drives and media like (S)DLT, LTO & older formats like 3490 are very durable.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    19. Re:Death? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      We keep end of quarter and end of year tapes till they no longer function, and then we keep them because we are too afraid to rid ourselves of them.

      Could you ditto the files from the old tapes to new tapes?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    20. Re:Death? by warren96 · · Score: 1

      Wonder why no one posted that actual release from the Almaden research site for a better review of what was accomplished. IBM Researchers Set World Record in Magnetic Tape Data Density

    21. Re:Death? by krunk4ever · · Score: 1

      I agree with most of what you said, but don't understand why the point of adding the bardcode bit at the end was for. I mean it's not like you can't put barcodes on hdds to be scanned.

      However, this introduces a different problem. 500GBs will one day reach that pricing, no doubt about that. But when it does, tape will be even cheaper and probably more dense.

      What will eventually replace tape is not hdds, but either flash memory or optical discs. Flash and optical disc both have a speed advantage (especially for seeking) above tape and they're rather durable from being "thrown across the room". They both weigh less than tape and can definitely be inserted/removed in bulk with software. Barcode is once again something I'm not too sure why it was listed because it seems anything can have a barcode, but with optical discs nowadays, it seems you can print your own labels within the drive itself.

      The only disadvantage optical discs and flash memory have at the moment is capacity. With Blu-Ray at ~50GB and flash memory capping around ~8GB, it's nowhere close to the 500GB you speak of, however, the chances of optical discs and flash memory catching up and surpassing tape within a few years is not something hard to imagine.

    22. Re:Death? by general_re · · Score: 1
      400 GB takes 83 square feet.

      93, if my math is right. Anyway, you slightly understate the problem. Multiplying a 680m 400GB tape by 15 means you'll get about 6TB on that same 680m tape, which is less than 50% of your projected 16TB hard drive - less than 40%, in fact.

      --
      ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
    23. Re:Death? by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      I agree with most of what you said, but don't understand why the point of adding the bardcode bit at the end was for.

      With barcodes, you can scale up your system with a tape storage robot. The barcode is mostly there for error checking to make sure a tape is in the correct spot. When I worked at the PSC, they had two fairly large tape robots. I had to rewrite the barcode generator program, so that it no longer depended on a library with a strict beerware license (No, I did not make this up).

    24. Re:Death? by ansible · · Score: 1

      I guess you've never dropped a DLT tape 2 feet onto a carpeted floor and have it stop working like I have. And yes, I tried to retension it too.

      The point with harddrive storage is that you don't have to move them... ever. Run your backups over the Internet to your remote sites. Having everything on-line makes the management a lot easier too. No fooling with barcodes and robots either.

    25. Re:Death? by krunk4ever · · Score: 1

      but what I don't get is why is this something pertaining only to tapes. if i had a hdd robot, an optical disc robot, or a flash memory robot (i know only of the optical disc robot existing, not sure about the others, but i don't see what's stopping them from doing that if they really want to automate the barcoding), i can just as easily barcode them.

      the other disadvantages were technical disadvantages, while the barcoding is definitely a disadvantage that could definitely change. invest some money, make your own hdd or dvd robot, and barcoding comes with it. it's not something the hdd itself has that's preventing the barcoding from happening is what i'm getting at.

    26. Re:Death? by Stoolio · · Score: 1

      You guys miss the point...

      You'll still have a use for those nifty little paper labels.

    27. Re:Death? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Miles? Is that you?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    28. Re:Death? by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So.. you don't spool your tape? You'd just kind of have it lying around.. flat.. on the floor?

      Who cares about the AREA required. We don't live in flatland. Tape is freaky thin. What is the VOLUME required for all that storage.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    29. Re:Death? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I don't think he was commenting on the durability, but the linearity. Since you can't access arbitrary positions on the tape without spooling through all the intervening tape.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    30. Re:Death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh.... I just looked up cars. They're pretty damn expensive. I thought they would be kinda cheap since they've been around for so long.

    31. Re:Death? by Nutria · · Score: 1
      When will tape die? - immediately after you write to it.

      I don't think he was commenting on the durability, but the linearity.


      Really? If that was my complaint, I'd have written something like:
      When will tape die? - As soon as you want to retrieve the last file on the tape.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    32. Re:Death? by Znork · · Score: 1

      "Another 2-3 years, perhaps."

      Probably not even that. The increasing simplicity of disk mergers and unconventionally attached storage will drive the larger capacity disks into the region of best price per GB faster.

      "I'm honestly surprised that the state of optical media has progressed so slowly though."

      Personally, I'm not so much surprised as I am disappointed. It was more or less obvious it would go this way once you realized the companies were too deeply tied to the film industry. By the time they become popularized now, they're already too small to be useful.

    33. Re:Death? by bhiestand · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The biggest tapes (as best I could find in a quick web search) hold 400GB each.

      Let's just say your web search was incomplete. About four years ago I worked for a company that made parts for 1TB tape drives. I know they have at least 8TB tape cartridges developed now. I'm sure the price per byte is more expensive than modern, cheap consumer hard drives, though. Keep in mind you're comparing apples to oranges, and essentially complaining that it's much harder to peel an apple. Companies that need large tape drives for backup need tapes instead of hard drives for a reason.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    34. Re:Death? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      Only if your backup admin is criminally incompetent. Which unfortunately many are.

    35. Re:Death? by snarkh · · Score: 1

      When will tape die?

      When will die tape?

    36. Re:Death? by Tinik · · Score: 1
    37. Re:Death? by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Do you even really want increased data density with tape drives? If you're using them for backup, it would seem that as density goes up, the chances of losing data go up as well.

      Personally, if my data were REALLY important, I'd want it punched out on Mylar tape, so if it were really necessary, I could read the binary code back out with my bare eyeballs, a sheet of paper, and a pencil.

    38. Re:Death? by denim · · Score: 1

      Tape will die when our primary fast storage is too big to backup to it. If we ever get solid storage, where a cubic inch holds something way beyond petabytes of info, tape won't do. Until then, I'll keep my tapes, thanks.

      --
      Being quick to take offense is not a virtue.
    39. Re:Death? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      And by that time tapes will be bigger and cheaper too, negating the whole thing :).

      I just wish I could justify dropping the cash on the tape DRIVE (the tapes themselves aren't the expensive part) for my personal backups. There are things I'd like to backup to tape, but when a decent high-capacity drive costs $1k+ it just isn't cost effective for most home users. For businesses that need to make daily backups though there truly is no better technology.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    40. Re:Death? by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but by the time we see $75 500GB hard drives, we will have 1TB tapes available for $75 and 1TB hard drives will still be $200 and still weigh 10 times as much as a tape.

      Hard drives are great for every day stuff, and even backups. But when transporting your data off-site, or even just archiving it, hard disks have nothing on tapes.

      Optical media is also terrible for backup.. It's way too fragile and the dyes they use on recordable optical media degrade very fast (under 5 years for really cheap ones.)

    41. Re:Death? by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 1

      HDDs are far too fragile to whip around in a robot like you do with tapes. They weigh more, the connectors are much more fragile, and most importantly the read/write heads would have to be flung around as well (they exist in the tape drive in a tape loader.) Tapes are designed with autoloaders in mind. HDDs also are really not conducive or cost effective for the kinds of jobs tape loaders are used for.

      The point is, yeah, you could, but you wouldn't want to. The other advantages of tapes outweigh any advantage hard drives have in this situation. Don't get me wrong, I back up all my data directly to a big RAID array, but after that I write to tape.

    42. Re:Death? by trentblase · · Score: 1

      You're overlooking the fact that with higher density storage you can devote more bits to ECC -- I'm thinking the end will be a win in terms of both density AND reliability...

    43. Re:Death? by trentblase · · Score: 1

      That's why you should get a magneto-optical tape drive!

    44. Re:Death? by BigCheese · · Score: 1

      Indeed, tapes are durable. The 3480 (yea, it dates me) tapes were pretty darn durable. When you have operator - sleep + coffee you get lots of dropped tapes.

      --
      The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
    45. Re:Death? by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      Unless the stock-market droid was built by slashdot readers.
      And had tentacles.

    46. Re:Death? by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 1

      I think he is talking about the fragility of the medium. Tape is thin, and easily damaged inside the read/write heads of a drive. If you ever had a drive go south reading from a B/U tape during a critical restore, you know what I mean. The issue is hopefully it will be faster, cheaper etc so you can copy those tapes before disaster hits twice.

    47. Re:Death? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      The problem with tape is that the capacity sucks relative to what you're backing up. The biggest tapes (as best I could find in a quick web search) hold 400GB each. The hard drive in my desktop is 500GB. My desktop's drives total 750GB. It would take two full tapes to do a single full backup.

      LTO-4 is slated to hit this year @ 800MB native. And backups are pretty universally compressed. And leveled, so you're only backing up changes.

      So with this new technology, the tape capacity will still have slipped from 80% of the capacity of the largest single drive to 50% of the capacity of the largest single drive. And this ignores things like perpendicular storage, which have the potential to add an order of magnitude to all of those numbers.

      The expected growth in capacity doesn't ignore emerging technology, it relies on it. They're not going to reach those capacities by waving a magic wand.

      The industry predicts that with the newer drive head technologies coming out, HD capacity will double every 12 months.

      Most current estimates peg 2TB "around 2010", not in two years. And frankly, anything analysts say needs to be taken with a grain of salt. We were supposed to be running 8GHz machines with 1.6GB hard drives by now.

      And regardless of increases to areal density, there's not likely to be a market for drives that large. An 8TB in 2010? The average person isn't going to need enough room to store nearly 3000 hours of 1080p video or 120,000 uncompressed music tracks. It's much more likely you'll see drives optimizing for speed, size and power consumption. Expect 2.5" drives on the desktop and 1.8" or 1" drives in the portable segment. And consumers are already buying more notebooks than desktops.

      My guess is that even though areal density has certainly increased, we're going to see overall drive capacity level out as the industry moves to 1.8" drives in notebooks and 2.5" drives in desktops.

      When they said "15x the current capacity," my first thought was "When can I get one?" When they said "5 years," my second thought was "By then, 15x the current capacity will be too small."

      If you could substantiate your timeframe for hard drive capacities, you might be more convincing.

      When are backup storage vendors going to actually get ahead of the density curve instead of lagging decades behind?

      Hyperbole much? Even one decade back the state of the art drive held 2GB, only 1/200th of the native capacity of current backup generation, and 1/400th of the drives being released later this year.

      There's a reason why tape technology is still strong, and it's not "BIZNESSES R STOOPID LOL!"

    48. Re:Death? by dgatwood · · Score: 1
      The other article linked to in one of the comments said that the number was 8TB, which is half of 16. I was ignoring the 15 and assuming somebody just didn't know how to divide. :-)

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    49. Re:Death? by dgatwood · · Score: 1
      Not the point. Tape drives for corporate storage are okay, but I'd like something that's practical for home users and small companies that don't have the money (or need) for robot tape libraries and stuff.

      A tape drive becomes economical as a backup only after its cost has been amortized over a fair number of backup tapes. For a business, it makes sense without any question. For a consumer, it almost never does because the drive becomes too small (relatively speaking) to be practical for backing up that user's drive long before its cost has been recovered.

      If the density of tapes were even in the same ballpark as hard drives (a problem that, as I mentioned, is likely to get worse by an order of magnitude with perpendicular storage in the near future), this would not be a problem, as a single tape would store all the data on several hard drives. Alternately, it could store a full backup and a year's worth of incremental backups. By the time you use enough tapes for the drive to pay for itself, it might be several years old, but it would still have enough capacity to back up a whole drive on a tape (or nearly so).

      With tape storage lagging so incredibly far behind, by the time it is a five years old, based on the numbers I mentioned, the existing drives would take ten tapes for a single full backup. Since no sane home user would be willing to put up with that (particularly since optical discs are so much cheaper per gig and the drive comes with the machine), this effectively makes tape drives well outside the reach of non-enterprise users, which is a shame, as the technology is generally much more reliable than optical media.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    50. Re:Death? by trentblase · · Score: 1

      He was talking about density as it relates to reliability. I see no reason why a higher density tape would be any more prone to physical damage than the old tapes.

    51. Re:Death? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      I think that estimate is a bit optimistic, but even if it pans out, we'll be having this discussion and saying "When a 1.6TB hard drive costs $75..."

      That's ignore sustained transfer, as well. You're lucky if you can push 65MB/sec to even near-line rated SATA 3GB/s drives. The cheap consumer level drives people price when pushing hard discs as a viable medium are going to be significantly slower than that. To contrast, current LTO drives are pushing 80MB/sec and are slated to bump to 120MB/sec later this year, and then to 180MB/sec 18-24 months after that.

    52. Re:Death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > LTO-4 is slated to hit this year @ 800MB native.

      800 MB? Well, color me unimpressed.

      8-)

    53. Re:Death? by Pinback · · Score: 1

      The native capacity of Jag Gen2 drives is 500GB. Using hardware based compression at the drive (depending on the data), you could see up to 3:1 compression, or 1.5TB per tape.

      The native capacity of LTO3 tape drives is 400GB. I think they estimate 2:1 compression, or 800GB per tape.

        (Understand that these are enterprise class drives, and it wouldn't be cost effective to use them for just one workstation.)

      The bigger question is whether all 750GB of your data needs to be backed up. If 10% of it represents original hard work on your part, then backup that data at minimum.

    54. Re:Death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very well. I will explain the joke. further...

      The point was that because it is so time-expensive to seek, It is very rare indeed that a tape would EVER be read. Especially since that seek-expense means that tape is essencially a backup medium, and the thing it's backing up is actually quite reliable. So any given tape will, in all liklihood, never be read. Hence, "write only" or "write once read never" plays on "read-only, read-write" permissions or "write once read many" media types.

    55. Re:Death? by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 1

      He was talking about how more density would end up meaning that you would use fewer tapes. Thus, it implies that a single tape failure would expose a greater amount of data to loss. It is very simple. If your backup requires that you use 10 tapes and you lose 1 tape, you lose 1/10th of your data. If your backup used 1 tape and you lose 1 tape. You have then lost ALL of your data.

    56. Re:Death? by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      Exactly, although to be fair to the GP, optical storage robots did exist for a while (maybe cheap RAID arrays killed them for the most part?)

    57. Re:Death? by Nutria · · Score: 1
      Very well. I will explain the joke. further...

      The point was that because it is so time-expensive to seek, It is very rare indeed that a tape would EVER be read. Especially since that seek-expense means that tape is essencially a backup medium, and the thing it's backing up is actually quite reliable. So any given tape will, in all liklihood, never be read.


      Oh, um, ok.

      Maybe the reason I took it seriously is because I occasionally have to restore databases from tape, and the operators are always pulling old files off tape.

      Yes, I work in a 24x7 datacenter, complete with dinosaurs.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    58. Re:Death? by Danga · · Score: 1

      If your backup requires that you use 10 tapes and you lose 1 tape, you lose 1/10th of your data. If your backup used 1 tape and you lose 1 tape. You have then lost ALL of your data.

      If you are stupid enough to only have 1 tape for a backup then you deserve to lose all of your data. Data backups are supposed to be REDUNDANT and preferably have at least one offsite backup as well in case the building burns down.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
    59. Re:Death? by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 1

      And I agree. However I have spoken to way too many people who not only did not have redundant backups, but were using the same media well past expected life. Somehow it became MY fault when they could not restore. As well, even if you do have offsite backups, that does increase the time to restore. Backups are not just for disaster recovery. They can be (and in my company are) used for file control and restoration.

    60. Re:Death? by trentblase · · Score: 1

      This is exactly my point: If you need 10 tapes and you lose 1 tape, you lose 1/10 of your data. If you need 1 tape, you can use 2 tapes and lose 0 data. Therefore, with the higher density tapes, you can use 1/5 the number of tapes and still have even greater overall reliability! Win/Win...

  2. Damn by mfh · · Score: 0

    We just spent $30k on a new server. Now we will have to upgrade!

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  3. That... by remembertomorrow · · Score: 5, Funny

    is a lot of porn.



    What?

    --
    Registered Linux user #421033
    1. Re:That... by HaveNoMouth · · Score: 1

      Whoa. Suddenly I hear Won't Get Fooled Again playing in my head.

  4. Tape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Tapes... I wonder, could this technology be applied to floppy disks?

    1. Re:Tape. by loraksus · · Score: 1

      Please, for the love of god, NO. Floppies need to die.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    2. Re:Tape. by BritneySP2 · · Score: 0

      Are you joking? Or is it "floppiness" that you do not like? A 20GB floppy would be a nice thing to have, would it not?

    3. Re:Tape. by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Not if it is as hideously unreliable as a floppy.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    4. Re:Tape. by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I always considered floppies a crapshoot. Literally a brand-new out of the box floppy would often be corrupted after 2 weeks of storage (and I was meticulous about keeping magnets away and such).

      I have a memory of an episode of Lois and Clark where Lois's computer crashed with her novel on it and Clark responded "Don't you backup to floppies?". It was almost a contradiction in logic :).

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  5. "5 Years before it hits mass market" my ass. by ErikTheRed · · Score: 0

    If I had a nickle for every time I was told a product would be available in n years, and still wasn't available (n x 3) years later.... I'd have a shitload of nickles.

    Please people (companies, etc) - don't tease us until the product is somewhere remotely close to manufacturing!

    /me stops wishful thinking and goes back to work.

    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    1. Re:"5 Years before it hits mass market" my ass. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wtf is a "nickle". Is that kinda like a nickel but not? A nickel for idiots? A 6 cent coin?

    2. Re:"5 Years before it hits mass market" my ass. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought a nickle was only 2 cents... Well, at least thats MY two cents..

    3. Re:"5 Years before it hits mass market" my ass. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a hard-disk jukebox platter drive? The only reason tape is even staying competitive is because it can pack a huge surface area in very little volume, whereas most hard drives have 1-2 platters with relatively low surface area, in about the same volume.

      Since the head-drive-ic is what is taking up most space, why not just use ONE head/drive/IC, but stack 100 or so platters together, then just pick the one that you need.

      Sort of like a tape autoloader, but somewhat faster seek times, and lots higher storage capacity..

    4. Re:"5 Years before it hits mass market" my ass. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you'd have n nickels.

    5. Re:"5 Years before it hits mass market" my ass. by ldheinz · · Score: 1

      5 Years? Vertical Recording for disk drives offers the same kind of increase in storage, and it's here NOW. My gut reaction to "5 Years before it hits mass market" was to instantly append "by which time it will be worthless" to the end of the sentence. Tape is dead. The only thing keeping it going is administrators with their heads in the sand (or the 1970s). The only thing that would convince me otherwise is someone volume shipping $100 500G tape drives with $20 media.

  6. No capacity mentioned. by crazyjeremy · · Score: 1

    Funny how the article doesn't specifically mention actual storage capacity... Just vague physical dimensions.

    1. Re:No capacity mentioned. by woodhouse · · Score: 1

      A cartridge half the size of a typical VHS tape cartridge used in home recorders will be able to hold the text from eight million books that would fill 57 miles (92 kilometers) of bookshelves, according to researchers.

      So how many libraries of congress is that exactly?

    2. Re:No capacity mentioned. by MeanMF · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's a better article.. They're claiming 8TB before compression on an LTO-sized tape. Tape record smashed with 8 terabyte format

    3. Re:No capacity mentioned. by forkazoo · · Score: 4, Informative
      Funny how the article doesn't specifically mention actual storage capacity... Just vague physical dimensions.

      If it's for tape, it depends on how long and wide it is. They give the denisty, so you can compute how much a particular tape size would hold... If it is about 6 Gbits per square inch, and is made into half inch tape that is ten feet long, then it'll be about 60 square inches, which is about 45 GBytes. If it is about 750 feet, which seems pretty realistic, then it'd be something like 3 TBytes per tape.

      I've probably scrwed up the math, but I'm sure you get the idea.
    4. Re:No capacity mentioned. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Funny how people keep showing how ignorant they are on slashdot.

      Bits of data per Sqr Inch is how the give storage capacity.

      Now once the dimensions of the media are known, they can easily determine how much data it will hold.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:No capacity mentioned. by Moofie · · Score: 2, Funny

      I prefer to measure in 747's full of telephone books crashing into LA storage units.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    6. Re:No capacity mentioned. by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      Tape is a 3 dimensional object.
      You need to know how deep the track surface has to be to store that amount of data.

      Its no use holding 10 googals of data per square inch if the track has to be 100 miles deep.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    7. Re:No capacity mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how the article doesn't specifically mention actual storage capacity... Just vague physical dimensions.

      But of course they do:

      A cartridge half the size of a typical VHS tape cartridge used in home recorders will be able to hold the text from eight million books that would fill 57 miles (92 kilometers) of bookshelves, according to researchers.

      I always measure my data in miles of books, don't you?

      On a more serious note though, the mainstream media seems to do that all the time, as if every reader would be confused if they mentioned actual bytes. Its pretty sad how much technical and scientific articles are gusually dumbed down.

    8. Re:No capacity mentioned. by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, wtf. They also talked about area in inches, instead of the standard units of Football Fields.

    9. Re:No capacity mentioned. by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      If you start inching toward measuring in metric instead, the world will be a better place.

    10. Re:No capacity mentioned. by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Um, thanks for sharing?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    11. Re:No capacity mentioned. by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      You're welcome. Not everything should be measured in 747s, and Library's of Congress you know?

    12. Re:No capacity mentioned. by Moofie · · Score: 1

      See, when you don't get the joke, it's usually better to just stop.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    13. Re:No capacity mentioned. by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      And if you see someone doesn't get a joke, it's usually polite to explain it or give a hint as to the source at least.

  7. Okay. Fine. But.... by blair1q · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How long does it take to write this stuff?

    And how long to seek?

    Because if it isn't faster than swapping old-technology tapes, it's not worth a damn.

  8. 5 years? by the_humeister · · Score: 1, Funny

    By then my collection will have surpassed this capacity...

    1. Re:5 years? by boiledsoybeans · · Score: 0

      collection of what?... pr0n?

  9. What's magnetic tape? by Graboid · · Score: 2, Funny

    I read about it a history book a few years back (right next to zip disks and 8 track players)....

    What's next? Commodore 1024?

    1. Re:What's magnetic tape? by geobeck · · Score: 1

      Tape is still a very reliable, relatively durable storage medium for taking your backups off site. At my office, we're currently debating the relative merits of tape vs. removable hard drives for our next upgrade. Removable drives are starting to look good, but it's by no means a one-sided contest. Tape is still used, and will be for quite some time.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    2. Re:What's magnetic tape? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      The beauty of tape is you only need one drive, and can store huge (huge) libraries of data. I've seen one installation in a datacentre where the tape racks literally had a robotic arm picking the appropriate tape, moving it from the fireproof vault to a seperate drive, inserting it, doing the backup/restore, then replacing the tape. Thousands of TB of backup data there.

      Admittedly for smaller servers a removable HDD may prove far better given the usage vs. cost, but for large installations it's near impossible to beat the fact that your backup is turned into a physically removable and storable object which can be handled automatically.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    3. Re:What's magnetic tape? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I think it's a band, like the Fuzzy Nipples or Waiting For Godot.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:What's magnetic tape? by Iron+Condor · · Score: 1
      Admittedly for smaller servers a removable HDD may prove far better given the usage vs. cost, but for large installations it's near impossible to beat the fact that your backup is turned into a physically removable and storable object which can be handled automatically.

      Actually it's a (fairly narrow) sweet-spot. Once the volume increases sufficiently that you need to install some kind of robot to handle the tapes, you might want to re-compute the dollars per byte you're spending.

      And with network capacities being what they are, there's really no reason to send hardware (disks, tapes whatever) around the globe when it would be cheaper in the long run to run an optical fiber and just send bits.

      Where I work we generate a lot of data. In the region of 100GB on a good day. We "back up" by having a redundant server off-site to which we copy all HD-contents. By the time you've figured out how to back up a 50TB-rack and figured out the infrastructure for tape storage and how to keep track of the actual tape that contains the piece of data you're looking for, you might as well go out and buy another 50TB-rack and simply copy your data over. And when you need some item it's right there. When they're turned off, harddisks are actually not so bad life-time wise either.

      --
      We're all born with nothing.
      If you die in debt, you're ahead.
    5. Re:What's magnetic tape? by hcob$ · · Score: 1
      I read about it a history book a few years back (right next to zip disks and 8 track players)....

      What's next? Commodore 1024?
      I know that you're trying to be funny, but you obviously have not been in a real-world IT department. Tape backup is THE long-term storage media. Magnetic tapes don't degrade nearly as fast as CDROMS or Floopies(not that anyone backs up to these anymore) or any other number of technologies. They are compact, easily portable, and damn easy to store. You could probably store 3-5 YEARS worth of backups in one of those fire-proof safes that the size of a filing cabinet.

      Tapes probably won't go away for another 20 years at LEAST.
      --
      Cliff Claven
      K.E.G. Party Chairman
      Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
    6. Re:What's magnetic tape? by blane.bramble · · Score: 1

      The thing you, and many others, are missing here is a proper back-up cycle. Yes, mirroring your data to another server is (like RAID) a good way to safeguard your current data. It does nothing to provide the ability to get a file from the day before, the week before, the year before etc. This is where tape backup excels, with a proper hierachial backup strategy.

  10. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by eln · · Score: 4, Informative

    You've clearly never worked in an enterprise-level environment. Larger companies like WalMart measure their storage requirements in petabytes. To these companies, the physical space required to store tape backups is significant, especially when you consider some records (such as employee records) have to be kept for up to 30 years after the employee leaves the company. Plus, virtually all accounting records must be kept for a large number of years by law.

  11. leapfrogging by ziegast · · Score: 4, Informative

    FYI: Sony claimed 11 billion bits per square inch quite some time ago.

    It's always good news when someone figures out how to store more bits into the same amount of space, and I'm sure that companies like IBM and Sony will keep pushing the limits.

    1. Re:leapfrogging by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      But with Sony's latest shenanigans, do we have any reason to believe anything they claim?

    2. Re:leapfrogging by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      I just wonder if you know the size of Sony tape business and their breakthrough inventions.

      Please, please don't compare/confuse Sony amateur (home etc) units with pro units.

  12. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by spun · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not everyone is a home user. Corporations far more than 26TB of backup tapes, you should see some of the tape libraries I've worked with. Whole rooms full of tapes with automated robots that load and unload them from banks of machines. As for backup speed, tape is not so slow anymore. LTO3 can do over 100MB/second.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  13. SOHO tape systems by Andrew+Tanenbaum · · Score: 1

    Does anyone make an affordable tape backup system in the range of 2TB? I wouldn't want to lose my Minix ISOs.

    1. Re:SOHO tape systems by pimpimpim · · Score: 1

      There is, but it's rather monolithic.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  14. I don't want it! by RokcetScientist · · Score: 0

    I don't want it! I don't any more energy draining mechanical machines that are subject to wear and tear. I want solid state! Flash memory! Or whatever you call it. No more moving part machines please.

  15. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I need it for all the pictures of your mom.

  16. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ranting for mod points.... good job too.... but you didnt close off that last tag.

  17. Must be something in the water .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... it appears to be the day for BREAKTHROUGHS!

  18. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because there are some applications with very large data sets. Molecular modeling is one such case -- a single experiment might yield a couple terabytes of data... That data has to be archived so that the data can be re-examined later.

  19. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

    You'd usually use tapes for archiving, not stuff you'd access alot.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  20. Why use cruddy old tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Why use cruddy old tape these days?
    This is Slashdot!
    I'm waiting for the obligatory clueless slashdot replies-
    1. Who needs tape? I can get a couple 200GB IDE drive at Newegg and use the cool RAID controller on my motherboard!
    2. Who needs tape? I can get a $50 DVD writer at Newegg and backup to DVD!!!!
    3. Who needs tape? I keep my backups on a $30 USB flash stick that I bought at Newegg!

    1. Re:Why use cruddy old tape? by BlueScreenOfTOM · · Score: 1

      Such bitterness.... certainly warranted in response to some articles, but one about tape storage?

    2. Re:Why use cruddy old tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) You are an idiot

      2) Optical Backup solutions do *not* last very long. The US Goverment currently recognizes tape backup as a 50+ year backup solution. FWIW, microfiche is currently the only acceptable 500+ year backup solution authorized by the government.

      3) Private companies are often mandated by law, to keep backups of data. Again, backup to optical media CD, DVD, HD-DVD, BDVD, whatever, simply does not compare in terms of longevity to Tape

      4) You are an idiot

    3. Re:Why use cruddy old tape? by Opie812 · · Score: 1

      Optical Backup solutions do *not* last very long. The US Goverment currently recognizes tape backup as a 50+ year backup solution.

      BFD. They also said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. :)

      --
      I'm not a nerd. Nerds are smart.
    4. Re:Why use cruddy old tape? by Jon+Luckey · · Score: 1
      I'm waiting for the obligatory clueless slashdot replies-
      1. Who needs tape? I can get a couple 200GB IDE drive at Newegg and use the cool RAID controller on my motherboard!
      2. Who needs tape? I can get a $50 DVD writer at Newegg and backup to DVD!!!!
      3. Who needs tape? I keep my backups on a $30 USB flash stick that I bought at Newegg!

      4. Who needs tape? In 4 years my GMail account will be up to 1TB and I can backup via email!

      --
      -- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
    5. Re:Why use cruddy old tape? by Klanglor · · Score: 1

      NewEgg's don't ship in my area :P haha

  21. My sincere hopes by bunions · · Score: 1

    are that it has something to do with "Gettin' Perpendicular"

    --
    there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    1. Re:My sincere hopes by marciot · · Score: 1
      [My sincere hopes] are that it has something to do with "Gettin' Perpendicular"

      IBM failed to mention that while they can store 15 times as much data per cubic centimeter by standing the bits on end, the tape medium itself is 15 times as thick, leading to the use of a large circular support hub to accommodate the extra weight. The new tapes and tape drives are based on an earlier design popularized by IBM in its heyday.

    2. Re:My sincere hopes by bunions · · Score: 1

      I don't know what all that techno mumbo-jumbo means because it isn't in a flash movie and it doesn't have an awesome musical accompaniement.

      http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_h ead/pr/PerpendicularAnimation.html

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
  22. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Amouth · · Score: 1

    My issue is there is no good low-middle range.. you can get a 12/24 for a decent price but 100/200 is just .. well over priced..

    we switched to HDD's in removable racks..

    but then agian we don't care about shelf life only making it through a fire

    --
    '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  23. Breakthrough!!!! by HardCase · · Score: 4, Funny

    So if you combine the tape density breakthrough with the Linux device driver breakthrough, can you go faster than the speed of light? Or does SM just need a thesaurus?

    -h-

    1. Re:Breakthrough!!!! by jthill · · Score: 1

      Don't need this breakthrough. We can already do that.

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    2. Re:Breakthrough!!!! by amliebsch · · Score: 1

      Yes, but only if you reverse the polarity on the tape drive's neutron flow, which should increase the field strength of your device driver by at least 200%! Like...throwing a banana down a hallway? Exactly!

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    3. Re:Breakthrough!!!! by DJTodd242 · · Score: 1

      You're mixing a Doctor Who cliche with a Star Trek one. Clearly this is dangerous, like bringing matter and antimatter together.

  24. I am a bit dubious about... by Itninja · · Score: 1
    Calculated on a per-gigabyte basis, tape systems are about one-fifth to one-tenth the cost of hard-disk-drive storage systems, depending on their size.

    Okay, so I want to store 400 GB of data daily. I can get 5 external 500 GB HD's (about $1800) and write a simple script to backup everything daily (free). Then I take one drive home everynight, and cycle the drives through the week. I can have all my data backed-up in about 90 minutes. This gives me capacity, redundancy, off-site storage, and speed.
    The middle-of-the-road Dell tape autoloader is over $3000 (plus the cost of tapes), and only has a transfer speed of 28 GB/hour. That's over 14 hours to backup my data!!!

    So, I'm not real sure where that come up with thier statement about value. I just don't see it.
    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    1. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try re-running your numbers for 500 TB of storage, and factor electricity and longevity. Tape isn't the answer for everything, and is the answer for less than it was 15 years ago, but it still has it's place

    2. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Hard drives do not travel as well, are moer dificult to swap around, and at that price, they have dirty writes.

      If you want a hard drive to be as reliable as tape, you will need to spend at least 1000 bucks per drive, probably closer to 1500. Even then, tranporting drives is risky then tapes. Also, tapes will be cheaper to replace then drives. Not to mention, if someone steals your hi end tape, the chances that they will be able to get the data off is extremely low, because they probalby wont have access to a reader.

      The tape drive you link to is a joke. I would suggest you look at something in the 200+Gb per hr range.

      The tapes really arent for you paultry 400GBs. Try using you method when you need to back up dozens(or even 100s) of terrabytes, organize the location of the files, and have it automatically be loaded on demand.
      Now you are talking about many closet size robotic cases all linked together.
      If you could reduce the area and power consumption of the current backup solutions by half, you would have tremendous value.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by Daneboy · · Score: 1

      Well, suppose you didn't just want to backup 400GB of data every day, but that you actually generated that much NEW data every day, and that you wanted to keep ALL of it. For a LOT longer than five days -- like maybe a year. Or ten. Maybe you're running a mission-critical database of financial transactions for a bank or brokerage, and you need to be able to retrieve transaction details for audit reasons.

      In general, tape will be cheaper than HDDs iff you need to store enough data that the price of the tape DRIVE becomes inconsequential, so the relevant comparison is just the tape media versus HDD media.

      It used to be true that even small or medium-sized companies needed tape backup -- but today it's only really necessary for banks and phone companies and other really big things. I work in the data networking industry, and I have seen LOTS of decent-sized customers who are still paying for the milion-dollar loans they took out to pay for their room-sized 2 TB robot-driven tape archive system.

      --
      /* "Specialization is for insects." -Heinlein */
    4. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by sirwired · · Score: 1

      With the puny amount of data you want to back up (and with that dirt-slow drive), of COURSE tape is a stupid solution. A middle-of-the-road "real" tape drive can run at 60-80MB/sec with "average" data and put your entire 400GB on half of one tape that weighs half a pound and runs about $80.

      What your soluiton utterly lacks is scalability. If you need to increase your long-term storage requirements by 10TB (for archival or versioning purposes, which by the way, can't be done well with just a script), you need to buy only a couple boxes of $80 tapes, not 20 $300 hard drives.

      Tape can be stored longer, is easier to ship, is sturdier, in many cases faster, and has built-in compression.

      Your idea of swapping out drives daily would like fail in under a year. You are going to kill at least one of those cheap "consumer" drives you are hauling around all tht time, and the electrical contacts in your disk enclosure won't last long either.

      SirWired

    5. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      Yes, if all your data will fit on one disk drive, then you can use one disk drive to back up your data. But let's say you have 5TB of data and the largest disk you can buy is 500GB. Do you plug in 10 USB disk drives every night? Think about a typical medium sized bussines that has say 100 computers in the office. On any one day there are not likely to be all that many changed files but still you have to do a "level zero" backup periodically. You can't backup 100 computers to one 500GB USB drive. No you are going to need automated tape handling system The numbers of gigabytes will change over the years but whenever you have more then 5 or so disk drives worth of data to backup you will be wanting a tape system.

    6. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by binaryspiral · · Score: 1

      I have seen LOTS of decent-sized customers who are still paying for the milion-dollar loans they took out to pay for their room-sized 2 TB robot-driven tape archive system.

      They made the mistake of not planning ahead. Building a scalable backup system that uses a combination of virtual tapes on a SAN and an actual ultra-high density tape library that can be upgraded to newer tape standards as the technology evolves and your data requirements increase, does take a bit of planning.

      Ploppping down a few million for an archive system without considering the future and evolution of their business or technology... well, that's just silly.

    7. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by Itninja · · Score: 1

      It's true, I am just thinking of small non-enterprise level uses.

      I guess the biggest thing I am thinking of is the TCO. I mean, in order to actually use any of that data that's been backup onto a tape, it has to be 'restored' first. With an external HD, I just plug it, map it, and start accessing data right away. If my same 400GB of data is on a tape (or spread acoss several tapes), I don't think you could run a system directly from tape...could you?

      But in any regard this thread has been educational for me....

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    8. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by Itninja · · Score: 1
      Tape can be stored longer, is easier to ship, is sturdier, in many cases faster, and has built-in compression.

      Tape can only be 'stored longer' if kept in a very tightly controlled enviroment.
      Even find mold growing on your tape media?

      Try dropping a tape onto concrete from 20 feet. The plastic housing will shatter and the tape will become useless. Do the same to a LaCie external drive (that has been properly parked) and the aluminum housing may break, but the drive will be fine.

      Faster? Can you run a database or a enitre server OS or stream video directly from tape now?

      Compression is done in the software, not on the tape. The tape just takes what it's given.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    9. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by sirwired · · Score: 1

      Tape can only be 'stored longer' if kept in a very tightly controlled enviroment.
      Even find mold growing on your tape media?


      If you store a drive in conditions that produce mold on a tape, it won't work either after a long time either.

      Try dropping a tape onto concrete from 20 feet. The plastic housing will shatter and the tape will become useless. Do the same to a LaCie external drive (that has been properly parked) and the aluminum housing may break, but the drive will be fine.

      Your analogy is faulty. Yeah, take a hard drive, and pack it in a protective container, it MAY work after such a drop. If you put a tape in the little plastic box it comes in, it should do just fine too. You can't compare a protected drive to a "naked" tape. Tape is also much lighter, and therefore easier to protect during shipment than drives.

      Faster? Can you run a database or a enitre server OS or stream video directly from tape now?

      BACKUPS go plenty fast with tape. That doesn't mean restores are instant. If you want instant restores, you really need remote disk mirroing anyway (this is VERY expensive), not schlepping cheap hard drives all over creation.

      What do you mean, you can't stream video from tape? What exactly do you think video cameras usually record on? A RAID array strapped to a camraman's belt? Tape IS streaming media. Now if you want to stream from DATA tape, you need about a 2 second buffer, that's more than enough, as long as the video doesn't cross tapes.

      Compression is done in the software, not on the tape. The tape just takes what it's given.

      Um, no. ALL enterprise tape drives do compression on the drive to avoid tying up the CPU on the backup server. Maybe low-end, buy-it-at-CompUSA-crap doesn't do built-in compression, but all tape drives for "real" use do. You will notice that tape drive specs for enterprise tape drives specify "native" speed and then usually "typical" speed. Compression ratios of 3:1 are not uncommon for the data tape drives usually back up. This gives you well north of 2 TB in a single $80 cartridge.

      SirWired

    10. Re:I am a bit dubious about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      write a simple script to backup everything daily
      That's over 14 hours to backup my data!!!

      "back up". ("backup" is a noun.)

      drive home everynight

      "every night".

      all my data backed-up in about

      "backed up".

      I'm not real sure where that come up with thier statement

      "really", "they", "their".

  25. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by ByteGuerrilla · · Score: 1

    Thank You! Reading down the first sets of comments I had to wonder where all the people who knew what they were talking about had gone.

    --

    A block of code, sufficiently well-written, is indistinguishable from magick.

  26. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft and Intel together have developed a new floppy disk called the "blu-ppy", capable of holding 100% more than a normal floppy disk, giving a vast 2.88MB recording capacity.

    1. Re:In other news... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      IBM Had that first too, I believe. I remember having a 2.88 MB floppy drive in my old 50 Mhz PS/2 server

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  27. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Itninja · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    How is world is 100MB/sec not considered slow? You could copy the data 10 times, onto 10 different external hard drives, in less time.

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  28. holographic storage by ziegast · · Score: 1

    While Googling for "bits per square inch world record", I found a company claiming 515 gigabits per square inch. Here come the terabyte discs!

  29. MOD PARENT INFORMATIVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much better article. Thanks.

  30. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 1

    How long does it take to write this stuff?

    And how long to seek?

    Because if it isn't faster than swapping old-technology tapes, it's not worth a damn.


    Upgraded your tape drive lately? Every time I have gone up one DDS number, the tapes are twice the size and the speed doubles or triples.

  31. Drop it by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Informative
    Lets see wich has a better chance of surviving.

    But don't worry, I am sure you know better then the people at IBM, must be why you make billion and they do not advising the biggest companies in the world.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Drop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To each his own:
      Google stores DB on hard drives, NSA stores your phone conversations on mag-tapes ;-)
      ------

      Dropped HD has a good chance of surviving if heads are properly parked.

      Tolerances of up to 500g (that's meters per second per second, like dropping the drive from your table onto a hard concrete floor) are routine now, plus you can get WAY better than that by using protective packaging.

      In general, HDs win if one needs fast access speed, and tiny seek times. Google's database could not be ran off the tapes, for example. In addition, HDs are more tear/scratch/heat/fungus/humidity resistant, and tapes must be stored in a stricktly controlled environment (unless you want your backup literally eaten up by mushrooms!)

      Tapes win where the data volume is staggeringly huge, so huge that storage costs and ease-of-access costs are becoming irrelevant.

  32. How many years? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Isn't five years the typical projected time span for something you're not going to see nearly as soon as you think? I remember in five years we're going to have flat-screen televisions you can hang on your wall. And while we do have exactly that now, I first heard this prediction twenty-five years ago!

    And I'm still waiting for the flat-screen TV you unroll like a poster and tack up with some double-sided tape.

    So this IBM announcement fails to excite. Five years is a very long time in the technology industry.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:How many years? by loraksus · · Score: 1

      I'd just like to point out that 5 years predictions (and plans based on those predictions) worked stunningly well for quite a few communist countries.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    2. Re:How many years? by Tingler · · Score: 1

      I'd just like to point out that 5 years predictions (and plans based on those predictions) worked stunningly well for quite a few communist countries.

      We have always been at war with Oceania.

  33. This sounds EXACTLY like the early days of LTO by csoto · · Score: 5, Informative

    All you naysayers, understand that we had exactly the same sort of announcements before the Linear Tape Open (LTO) standard was developed. IBM led a group of manufacturers to develop a standard built around a few breakthroughs in tape density and drive head technologies. They predicted 10X (or more) capacity, 5X (or more) throughput, etc. and it would be available in 5 years or so. Sure enough, LTO-1 came about and immediately led to a tape storage boom. Quantum pushed DLT to about its limits, Storagetek upped the ante with their very high speed formats, etc. Everything got cheaper. Tape stayed relevant. I predict the very same trend in the near future...

    --
    There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
  34. Tape IS dead by CPNABEND · · Score: 1

    While this is a notable achievement... There are a lot of problems: 1) Areal density is improving exponentially - We should see 2.5TB drives in the next year or so. AND the form factor is moving to 2.5 inch drives to allow vendors to pack more into a physical array. 2) BPI density is growing incrementally. Even this new tape process will be behind (still) by the time it is available. 3) I have customers that have more than 100PB (Yes, PETA) of files on-line. Would you want to try to restore from tape? 4) DR / BC requirements are forcing remotely-mirrored strategies to be able to keep the business alive, in most cases I have seen, with hot-standby processing capability at the remote site. Don't get me wrong - I think tape has a place in the world... As an archive media that will be in a mountain somewhere, "just in case"

    --
    My wife doesn't listen to me either...
    1. Re:Tape IS dead by vdthemyk · · Score: 1

      Ok, I know I have to preface this with I work for IBM. So know that all disclaimers are out lets start. If they do come out with 2.5TB HDDs, and you put that drive into a RAID array, say a drive fails. Sure, you're protected against this with RAID protection right? Ok, so you have a hotspare drive of the same size, do you know how long it takes to rebuild a drive of say 500GB in a RAID 5 array? Just to simplify it, it's so long, your starting to see disk manufacturers implement dual parity array's. This is directly because the drive rebuild times are getting so large you run a much higher risk in having a second drive in the array go out before the rebuild is complete. Another bad thing about extremely dense drives, performance. Can you imagine the random seek time on a drive of this capacity? What's the top spindle speed in the market today, 15krpm. And mind you on the 500GB SATA 2 drives you're still only getting 7.2krpm. This will kill performance until we find a much quicker way to access the data on the HDD's. So, what do you use these large capacity drives for? Primarily large sequential I/O's. What does (LTO) tape perform best at, large sequential I/O's. Also, what is the life span of a disk drive? I'll tell you, it's much less than a tape cartridge. So all these federal compliance regulations that state a company must keep data for x ammount of time (3 yrs, 7 yrs, 30 yrs...) disk just doesn't make sense. From IBM's side, sure, I would love for you to use disk for everything, it's more expensive, you have to buy more of it, and 3-5 years from now, you'll have to replace it. LTO has a standard that n-1 generation carts must be able to be read and written by the current version drives, and n-2 must be able to be read by the current drives.

      Now will your small shops be interested in this, no, but if you're a large company that has data retention policies, then tape just makes good sense.

      Again, I'm an IBM employee so you can take this as you will, but I just want you to know tape has been and will be around for a long time.

      --
      VD
  35. In other news by overshoot · · Score: 1

    The MPAA is asking for legislation regulating this technology and imposing mandatory controls on all implementations.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  36. I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by mi · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Currently the cheap and slow large-capacity harddrives are the best deal per gigabyte for data-storage. And they are always on-line. If you want an off-site backup — simply arrange with a like-minded person (or company) to exchange your (encrypted) backups via the internet. A fully automated solution without the daily trips to the safe-deposit box (which is what you are supposed to do with the tapes).

    I wonder, if the disk sizes will keep the dominance in 5 years. They probably will... Or, a major breakthrough in, say, "flash" storage technology will make all other media obsolete...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by loraksus · · Score: 1

      If you want an off-site backup -- simply arrange with a like-minded person (or company) to exchange your (encrypted) backups via the internet.

      This becomes somewhat of a pain if you have over 30 gigs or so to back up each night.
      Now, that isn't a problem for 95+% of the businesses out there, although a lot of those smaller businesses are still using horribly slow tape drives which is probably what drives the perception that tape sucks (and to be completely honest, it does, if you're using it in that sort of environment with that sort of hardware).
      We backup our stuff to a couple different places on the net for additional redundancy, but there have been times when a webhost or a backup partner is down, so I'd have to argue that uploading the backup to more than 1 place is necessary.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    2. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by vanyel · · Score: 1

      I was wondering where they were finding tape drives that were "1/5th to 1/10th the cost of disk drives"...

    3. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you will be wasting energy to keep them online.

    4. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by NVP_Radical_Dreamer · · Score: 1

      I have the good fortune of working at a resort environment where we have a building that is connected via fiber about 3/4 mile away. Thats where i store my backups on a file server there. The way i figure it, if both buildings are knocked out then i have bigger issues than data recovery.

      Kudos to IBM for making this breakthrough however, im sure there are TONS of people it will benefit.

      --
      The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

      - Winston Churchill
    5. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by jthill · · Score: 1

      Tons of people starts somewhere between twenty and forty people. You British?

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    6. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by Leibel · · Score: 1

      Linus Torvalds might have said, "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it" but he was talking about kernels and files that are modified and then closed, not 2TB databases that always change (so incrementals, rsync, etc. are even impractical).

    7. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      That's not what they said. They are comparing the cost per gigabyte to store data, a hard disk vs. a tape drive and tape cartridges.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    8. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by vanyel · · Score: 1

      Have you priced tapes? Disk drives are cheaper by quite a bit these days...

    9. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      You can buy an IBM 3592 tape cartridge (300 GB) for $135. The tape cartridge does not require a case, power supply, I/O channel, etc., plus it uses less floor space.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    10. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by vanyel · · Score: 1

      You can buy a 300G Seagate drive for $100 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N8 2E16822148131&ATT=22-148-131&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r) ; it doesn't require any more case, power supply, i/o channel or floor space than the tape drive you put the 3592 cartridge in, the hotswap case it goes in is a lot cheaper than the drive, it's got faster throughput, faster random access to the data and it's about the same size. It may be a little more fragile, and a little heavier.

    11. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't count on tape keeping up even as much as it has, if the market for tapes keeps shrinking. There's just not going to be as much money being thrown at it.

    12. Re:I wonder, what disk sizes will be in 5 years... by mi · · Score: 1
      This becomes somewhat of a pain if you have over 30 gigs or so to back up each night.
      The cost of buying (depreciation) of device(s) of such capacity and/or the cost of rotating the tapes (manually or via even more expensive to own and maintain tape-robots) is, probably, still higher than the cost of the additional bandwidth. And, you can use the bandwidth during the day for other things.

      If you are in a part of the world, where bandwidth (even within the same region) is too expensive, or if you are willing to juggle the cartridges, though, several 30Gb hard-drives are just as easy to juggle, and can be had for the cost of shipping nowadays, as can a computer to house them -- the thousands of dollars saved can feed entire villages for months in the same parts of the world. It will also take less space than the tape contraptions, and -- with a decent OS installed on the computer -- you can customize the backups to fit your needs.

      Tapes are history -- they were never as convenient as disks, but for some time they were a lot cheaper. That era ended long ago, and they exist largely because of the veteran sysadmins' nostalgia. You can't even send someone your tape, because of miriad of competing standards the recipient may not be able to read it -- better to send a DVD (or several).

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  37. Over-priced? by winkydink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is the value of your data that cheap? If so, hdd's may be just the thing for you. The three variables in play are for data backup & restore are: Fast, Reliable & Cheap. Pick any two.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Over-priced? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      We have found that Removable HDD's are cheaper per GB than tape.. alot faster for backup and restore.. just not quite as good for long term storage. but considering we reimage every server weekly and always keep a monthly image off site .. it turnes out to be better than tapes.. except for room in the fire safe - tapes are much smaller

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  38. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by misleb · · Score: 3, Informative

    Upgraded YOUR tape drive lately? DDS has to be the slowest "modern" tape formats in existence. I'll never touch one of those drives again. Worthless. Try VXA-2 or M2.

    -matthew

    --
    "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
  39. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typically, the more data you pack in a given area, the faster you can also read it. Considering current LTO3 drives can transfer data at rates around 80MB/sec, I imagine it's no slouch.

    For random access, yeah, tape blows, but you don't use tape for primary storage anyways. It's for backups or maybe to transport a large amount of data across a distance when you don't have a network connection capable of it.

  40. Capacity assuming DLT form factor by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 2, Informative

    DLT tape cartridge was 0.5 in x 1700 ft, or 10,000 square inches.
    At 0.75 Gbyte/sq in, that's 7.5 Tbyte per tape. That's a lot.

    Daniel

  41. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 1

    Hehe, actually I haven't. It is about time too. My point is still valid though.

  42. Put all your eggs in the same square inch! by billcopc · · Score: 1

    The best part about this breakthrough is that we will lose 15 times more data when a tape fails.

    Tape backups are great for backups, they just aren't too good at restoring. I just wish hard drive manufacturers would use stronger plastic for SATA connectors, since those use a standardized layout and could potentially be used for hard drive libraries. At less than 50 cents per gigabyte right now, hard drives aren't bad at all. Pay a little more and you can get the shiny new 750gb units for greater density, soon to be 1000gb+ per drive. Yeah, screw tapes!

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:Put all your eggs in the same square inch! by mungtor · · Score: 1

      For about $1/GB you can have something really cool. Check out Data Domain boxes. Capacity optimized storage (which is cool in itself) which looks like a backup device. http://www.datadomain.com/ So, stream your backup to disk, clone DR to tape, but you can keep months of backups on line. Admittedly, the Data Domain boxes are not for archival purposes but they should be a lot faster and more reliable than tape for the typical duties of a backup system (1 file, maybe a directory structure). They also support WAN replication so you can mirror your backups offsite. It's not cheap, but it isn't stuffing tapes in boxes either. (no, I don't work for them. I just think they're pretty cool)

    2. Re:Put all your eggs in the same square inch! by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Ick.. I get the funny feeling they're basing that $1/gb metric on "deduplicated" data. It's nice that the appliance does it transparently, but it's still just a numbers game.

      FWIW, any techie can build a bigass file server for 50 cents a gb or less, using common SATA hard drives and software RAID. Just get a nice rackmount case with a buttload of hotswap bays, toss in a fast-ish CPU and a gig of ram, Linux Samba FTP and a quick'n'dirty web-based control panel. Have your buddy print up a nice logo sticker, get a commercial template for your web site, buy yourself a suit and welcome yourself to the overpriced world of network storage sales.

      Hell, I'd do it myself if I had the capital to build the machines in the first place, but sadly I can barely afford my own file server.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  43. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by ThurstonMoore · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have a 400GB Seagate SATA hard drive and it gets no where near 100MB/s, what kind of hard drive are you planning on using?

  44. half the battle by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In my experience, the trouble is not in writing lots of data to tape, it's in reading it successfully afterwards. /only half-joking

    --
    Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    1. Re:half the battle by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I agree. Many backups never get tested for restore capability, and then fail when you try to restore the data.

      We discussed how we keep a lot of human subject interview/examination forms on paper, and when discussing the use of electronic forms, realized that much of the advantages of paper were:

      a. you can copy it easily
      b. it doesn't have any format changes every year or so
      c. by being human-readable, we can always infer what someone meant to write
      d. you can write explanations or notes on the forms if anything is unclear
      e. it scares people less if you write on paper instead of stare at a computer screen while talking with them.

      The same thing goes for tape - sure, maybe we can recover from it, but have we actually tried to recover data written for an IBM System/36 recently?

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:half the battle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool. I'm only half-laughing because I know what you are half-joking about all too well.

    3. Re:half the battle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. We currently use a set of ~10 tapes to back up our office.

      It takes 14hrs, and ~50% of the backups are junk if you try and restore them. We've tried multiple backup units and dozens of tapes.

      We've never had a HDD crash in the year I've been with the company, but tapes that are unreadable are commonplace. They're cheaper than dead drives - $80 instead of hundreds of $. But they're decidedly nonfree and looking to be more and more of a waste.

      Tapes that work have a niche. It's a sizable niche. But it's definitely not for everyone, and you can't just sit back and presume your covered. Chances are you aren't.

    4. Re:half the battle by FurryFeet · · Score: 1

      You could always use Write-Only Memory...

  45. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

    First off, no you can't unless you have a PCI-X connection to a storage array. PCI is 128Mbyte/sec at most.

    Second, if you think having 10 disks per day you have to backup is a "better idea" ... you're fucked up.

    Third, if you really wanted to you could logically stripe your backup.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  46. Tape? by phlegmofdiscontent · · Score: 1

    That's so 20th Century....

  47. Remember Write Rings? 1600 bpi? 800 bpi? 556bpi? by Cliff+Stoll · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the 1950's, data was recorded on 7-track tapes at 200 bits per inch. Those 7 tracks recorded 6-bit characters (EBCDIC?) with one bit of parity. A 2400 foot tape might hold some 5 million characters (upper case only, please). By the mid 1960's tape densities more than doubled to 556 bpi.

    Sorting algorithms were written to sort information using mag tapes; the speediest would make the tape vibrate in the vacuum columns with a minimum of reel-to-reel motion.

    By the 1970's, most shops changed to 800bpi, 9-track tapes, which would happily handle 8-track encoding. Then came 1600 bits per inch -- you could store an amazing 50 megabytes onto a single tape.

    There was a constant temptation to compress data so as to stuff as much onto the tape as possible. As a result, many graduate students earned their assistantships by decoding tapes written with oddball parity, density, and encoding combinations.

    The scattering matrices from my dissertation are encoded onto 9-track 1600 bpi tapes, carefully stored in my climate uncontrolled attic.

  48. Or... by quakeroatz · · Score: 1

    Maybe instead of backing up 400GB a day, you're backing up 10Gb a day, because you're one of the 100 000 small businesses in North America who use servers for email and office documents.

    Maybe instead of dropping one of your external USB hard drives on precisely the 600th day you need your backup, you don't. And you spend less than $400 on FIVE external drives that do a differential backup daily in 2 minutes!

    In this world, you don't spend thousand on a tape drive, you don't wait hours for a backup, and you live happily ever after. Welcome to the world of the small business where IT managers are the "computer guy" and people like spending $1200, not $6000 for new servers.

    1. Re:Or... by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Obviously, that market doesn't need tape. They would be happy with an offsite backup service.

  49. Vaporware? by phaetonic · · Score: 1

    I'm sure you will need this technology to back up Duke Nukem Forever, since the Holographic RAM IBM was supposed to release in 2003 core dumps to tape.

    1. Re:Vaporware? by jthill · · Score: 1

      IBM aren't known for vaporware.

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
  50. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by misleb · · Score: 1

    Bullshit. You must misunderstand how much 100MB/sec is. Most harddrives can't even sustain that. The WD Raptor only goes up to about 84MB/sec. And that is the max possible. Good luck sustaining that with filesystem overhead and all. A tape drive with a specified transfer rate can actually reliably sustain that rate.

    -matthew

    --
    "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
  51. Does anyone still use tape for backup? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I mean, here at the UW, everyone just backs up onto secondary disks.

    Technically, tape has a 100 year archival lifespan, but that assumes that we still have the technology to read it. In fact, we recently had a hard drive crash that was so old we couldn't recover any data from it, as we couldn't find the software or head to try to recover it.

    Naturally, having it on tape does mean it has a longer theoretical life, in that backing up onto CDs or DVDs, which only have 5-10 year max lifespans in standard conditions, for archival purposes is not safe, but by that point even the data formats have changed.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Does anyone still use tape for backup? by mnemotronic · · Score: 1
      We "depend" on it. IMHO, it's a way for the IT department to cover their butts. According to some of our experts, tape is a "write only" medium. That means that it's a gamble whether or not you'll be able to restore your original data a day later, much less 10 years later, when the original tape drive and software is long gone. Why is it important? For certain things, like product source code, we need to make copies and keep 'em safe for 11 years. This makes the lawyers happy, as the magnetic data storage business is a "lawsuit-intensive" industry. When called onto the witness stand during a copyright or patent infringement trial, the IT guy can say "Hey! I did my job. Backed it up. Sent the tape off-site. What else should I have done?"

      That said, I've had to depend on IT to restore a corrupted PVCS archive on more than one occasion, and they have yet to fail me.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    2. Re:Does anyone still use tape for backup? by StevisF · · Score: 1

      You've surveyed all 40,000+ people? ;-) I work for the Genome Sciences department which is part of the School of Medicine. Our current disk usage comes in at about 25TB and is growing rapidly. I think one year's worth of backups is probably about 100TB. It's just not economically feasible to backup that much data to disk.

    3. Re:Does anyone still use tape for backup? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      you just need a really really really big disk ...

      I was making a point, not seriously arguing that tape isn't a good idea, just that our usage of tape for backup is dramatically lower than it used to be even five years ago. We tend to use RAID and mirrored copies much more often.

      I used to work for Structural Genomics in Biochem and now work for Medical Genetics in the Dept of Medicine - and between the two floors is Genome Sciences - I know what you mean, some of the data we worked with need Terabyte storage.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:Does anyone still use tape for backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you just need a really really really big disk ...

      Are you sure you are not talking about a body part?

  52. In my opinion by The_Abortionist · · Score: 0

    It should never have been born!

    --
    Linux violates 235 Microsoft patents.
  53. Tape? the internet is my backup solution. by Roskolnikov · · Score: 1

    I've been using P2P networks for my backups, I simply share all of my files out and when I need to recover them, or I am away from home I use the same P2P
    software to search for them.

    I need very little local storage and people really seem willing to share the burden of backing up my music and pr0n.

    Seriously though, an affordable SOHO backup solution would be nice, the media to backup one of my 250 GB HD's cost more then the 250 GB HD...

    so lets hope this generates results that the non-enterprise user can benefit from, not likely but...

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  54. Re:Remember Write Rings? 1600 bpi? 800 bpi? 556bpi by slashflood · · Score: 1

    Good old times. -- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

  55. disk sizes in five years - why not use flash? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I use flash cards. Cheap, store 1 GB on a tiny device, plug in to any USB port.

    OK, I have an external HD for backup, but seriously, most of my data archive just gets shoved on my key ring.

    Haven't used tape in more than a decade.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  56. Excellent image by oskard · · Score: 1

    Funny how to image accompanying this article is a picture of a random asian man looking at an ultrasound of a brain. I wonder if this has anything to do with the article at all?

    --
    Sigs are for Terrorists.
  57. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I need it for all the pictures of your mom.

    Yo momma so fat, I need all that storage for just one picture of her.

  58. I wonder where your data will be in 5 years? by steve_ellis · · Score: 1
    Always on-line is one of the biggest problems with using disk drives for backup. Mechanical failure and high incremental cost (for each additional storage unit) are other big problems.

    In my _home_ network (server w/ 1.2TB online, 1TB in a hw raid5, 250GB for 'scratch', 4 desktop PCs, 1 laptop), I use an LTO2 drive for backups, but keep monthly backups for 15 months, keep weekly backups (mostly differential/incrementals) for 4 months, and keep daily backups (incremental of only 'critical' data) for 2 months. My wife complained that I didn't have a _longer_ term backup recovery plan--so now I've added yearly tapes that I never plan to re-use.

    I spent $1500 on the tape drive, but buy tapes for less than $30. Currently I have >3.5TB in backups on ~20 tapes, and I can follow a very fixed pattern of tape rotation (tape change 2x per week, use the same daily tape all week, switch to a weekly/monthly/yearly tape on the weekend, then switch back to a daily tape for the next week). OK, so I've got about $2100 in this backup strategy, and I could store 3.5TB on about $2000 worth of 500GB drives, but how would I rotate them, and how would I protect nearly all of the data against fire all the time? (I keep my non-mounted tapes in the 1800lb fireproof safe right next to the server). Furthermore, 2 years from now, when I've used ~30 tapes, I'll still have those critical files my wife or child accidentally deleted in late 2006.

    I'll be the first to admit my home server is large for 'normal' people, but this is slashdot--surely others here have larger setups?

    -se

    1. Re:I wonder where your data will be in 5 years? by westlake · · Score: 1
      I keep my non-mounted tapes in the 1800lb fireproof safe right next to the server

      one quick question: by "fireproof" do you mean "fire-rated for computer media?"

    2. Re:I wonder where your data will be in 5 years? by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      Anything but "Off Site" is foolish for data. A fire rated safe is not going to protect tapes for very long. Go pull out the sleve that comes with one of your tapes and see what it's safe operating and storage temp range is... It is very small, I bet the cart migh survive a fire but the tape inside will have expanded and distored destroying all data.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
  59. MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AC is correct. Mod it insightful. Thanks.

  60. Is there any reason why disks can't use this? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Diskettes are magnetic media, just like tape is... is there any particular reason that you couldn't get the same storage density on a floppy? It'd at least have the advantage of much faster seek times than tape, I'm sure.

    1. Re:Is there any reason why disks can't use this? by sketchman · · Score: 1

      But of course there is.
      If everything worked the way it should, and could, those big companies would lose a few pennies here and there.
      You make a good point. I think companies are holding out on us.

      --
      "In a world that exists without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"
    2. Re:Is there any reason why disks can't use this? by Detritus · · Score: 1

      You could, the problem is surface area. Compare the media surface area of a 3.5" floppy disk to a tape cartridge. Even if they have the same density, the tape cartridge will have much larger capacity.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    3. Re:Is there any reason why disks can't use this? by miro+f · · Score: 1

      at 7 billion bits per square inch a floppy disk should be able to store about 5 GB...

      sure it won't be up there with a tape, but at that density it's still a hell of a lot better than the useless 1,44 MB we're getting at the moment

      the only issue is the entire point of floppy drives is for using on old crappy machines that don't have bootable cd's or other such nonsense. so unfortunately, there's probably no call for 5GB floppy disks

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    4. Re:Is there any reason why disks can't use this? by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but there are 120MB floppy disks that have been out for ages (LS120). How many people actually have the drive? (I do, but I don't have any media!).

      Most of my computers don't even HAVE a floppy drive. As far as I can tell, DVD-RW and CD-RW have essentially replaced the floppy for largish data storage, and USB flash drives for smallish data storage.

      (The key being that the media is bootable.)

  61. MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AC #2 is also correct. Also mod it insightful. And this as well, just to avoid an infinite number of repetitions. Thanks.

  62. Usually tape drives are very fast. by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    In fact without a fiber connection the drives we have would outrun and scsi connection we have available.

    Here is a good page with some information about different offerings from IBM from the last 20 odd years.

    http://www.dpts.co.uk/hdm02.htm

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  63. NEVER!!! Re:Death? by eonlabs · · Score: 1

    http://www.ducttapefashion.com/ oh, wrong tape... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_tape It's still cheaper per bit that hd or optical, and has proven life. You're not going to see it in common computers, but for things like the internet archive, http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/01 Where the cost of hard drives is prohibitive because the amount of data is HUGE, it may just make sense to use tape.

    --
    I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
  64. New ones yes; old ones no. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Well, tape drives that have been around for a few years are cheap. It's new tape drives that are expensive.

    For example, during one of my backup obsessions, I got a HP SureStore Tape 12000e for about $25 on eBay. It's a DDS-2 autoloader. Holds six 4GB (native, allegedly 8GB compressed) tapes in a magazine and changes them on command.

    A few years ago, such a device would have set me back a few thousand bucks. Now, because people have moved to DDS-4 and higher, they're dirt cheap. There's nothing wrong with them, it's just an issue of capacity. (Though I think most people could probably fit their most important stuff in less than 8GB, counting documents only, no MP3s, warez, porn, applications, or system files, and backing up things like digital photos separately.)

    Compared to hard drives of similar capacities, tape drives have always been expensive from a home user's perspective, at least in the recent past. I suspect they'll stay this way in the future: the economies of scale are simply not there to make tape drives as inexpensive to manufacture as HDs. However, it's not hard to find ones that are a generation or two old for rock-bottom prices and still have a lot of life left in them.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by ars · · Score: 1

      Why'd you buy it? You can get a 24GB used hard disk for less then $25, so what's the benefit of tape?

      --
      -Ariel
    2. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by BigCheese · · Score: 1

      I pulled my DDS2 drive from my home server. I've got a DVD burner and a DVD holds a little bit more then a DDS2 tape. It'll be going on eBay eventually.

      DLT is still better then DDS. The DDS drives can get head skew so the only drive that can read a tape is the one that wrote it. Be sure and test your restore procedure on another machine.

      --
      The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
    3. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by bhiestand · · Score: 1
      Why'd you buy it? You can get a 24GB used hard disk for less then $25, so what's the benefit of tape?

      Hard drives are not, I said "NOT", a backup solution. They aren't reliable enough, they don't last long enough, and they can be affected by many of the same calamities. RAID arrays should be included in this. I don't care if you have RAID 50, if your data's really important you should back it up. If you're worried about pissing off a customer when you lose their data you should probably backup daily.

      All of that being said, do you know how old most 20-40GB hard drives are? Granted I still have a functional 4.3GB Quantum Bigfoot, but most hard drives that size are near failure. I wouldn't sell them with anything more than a 30 day limited warranty.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    4. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'd have thought it was obvious:

      1. That hard drive would be used, so how long will it last?
      2. Once that hard drive has died, I have no way of recovering my backup data
      3. At the point I use my fifth 8GB tape, I'll have more storage capacity than your 24GB hard drive.
    5. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Does it really matter how reliable they are, though? As long as they are reliable enough that the chances of two drives failing at the exact same time are insignificant, then RAID should be just fine (excluding cases where offsite data storage would be needed, in which case it's probably still easier to just use rsync to another RAID).

      In my experience, although I haven't used tapes in ages, I used to have one of those QIC-80 drives. By the time I actually needed to recover data off a tape, the tape was unreadable. That was the last time I ever used tape.

    6. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by bhiestand · · Score: 1
      Does it really matter how reliable they are, though? As long as they are reliable enough that the chances of two drives failing at the exact same time are insignificant, then RAID should be just fine (excluding cases where offsite data storage would be needed, in which case it's probably still easier to just use rsync to another RAID).

      Unless some malicious code takes out the data, or a power spike or PSU issue takes out the whole system, or the RAID controller takes a dump and you can't find a replacement for months because it's so antiquated... Don't get me wrong, it's redundancy and it's better than nothing, but it's not backup. As far as my personal stuff goes, I use RAID 5 with a dedicated hot spare, and I routinely burn DVDs with my most important files. I also ssh into my webserver and put the most important, but not extremely private, stuff in a fairly heavily encrypted file. The hosting company does, of course, do daily tape backups and it's on a pretty good cluster. Solely relying on one system is a bad idea, and it's fairly cheap to build a higher level of redundancy if you're somewhat competent with computers.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    7. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by BigCheese · · Score: 1

      I pulled my DDS2 drive when I got a DVD drive for my home server. It's the same amount of storage but the media is cheaper.

      I'm not all that fond of DDS drives. They can get head skew and then the only drive that can read a tape is the one that wrote it. Be sure to test your restores on another machine.

      --
      The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
    8. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by BigCheese · · Score: 1

      Well, poo. Ignore the extra post. I must have read this last night.

      --
      The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
    9. Re:New ones yes; old ones no. by operagost · · Score: 1
      You can't add 8 GB more space to your hard disk. You can, however, buy another DDS2 tape for a few dollars.

      If one of your tapes dies, you throw it away and buy another for a few dollars. You don't have to throw away all your backups.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  65. NSA's storage by A+Guy+From+Ottawa · · Score: 1

    In his book "Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security", James Bamford claims that in 2001 the NSA had tape technology that could store 10 GB per square inch.

    Now that they're sucking all the IP data out of AT&T's switches, and keeping records of every call placed in the US, I bet their backup needs have increased a tad... Wonder what their current storage capacity is.

    --

    using System.Awesome;

  66. Re:Remember Write Rings? 1600 bpi? 800 bpi? 556bpi by Detritus · · Score: 1
    7-track tape used BCDIC and Field Code, among other character codes.

    NASA and the Navy used 7-track tape for many years due to their use of certain UNIVAC computers (Naval Tactical Data System, AN/USQ-20) which were designed before the introduction of 9-track tape.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  67. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Mnfats95 · · Score: 1

    OK, so if you can only sustain 84mbps to a hard drive, how can you write to a tape at faster than that? Do hard drives read faster than they write?

    --
    If your not part of the solution you are the problem.
  68. Re:NSA's storage (& EVERYTHING ONLINE) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    In the Brave New World of All Survalance All the Time, how much tape storage will be required to record ALL THE EMAIL IN THE WORLD, along with ALL THE IM and ALL THE CHATROOM TRAFFIC? We can't be safe until all electronic information is recorded by the government, because a terrorist might use the internet.

    Here's how you can ride this train:

    1. Invest in tape storage companies.

    2. Vote Republican.

    3. The entire internet is recorded in real time.

    4. Your stock goes up.

    5. Profit!!!!!

    (Note for the humor impared. This is 'sarcasm' http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sarca sm)

  69. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by ginotech · · Score: 1

    Simple calculus? Like, you mean, elementary school geometry? How'd you even get a circumference of 80 from a diameter of 13 anyway? Am I missing something here?

  70. Who can believe what IBM predicts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where are the super high resolution displays they said would be on the consumer market years ago. Some time around 2001, IBM some how came up with some kind of scoring process that was supposed to make high res LCD displays cheaper than conventional LCDs. They said within a year doctors offices would get them with consumer laptops to follow. Nice prediction. They even had this on their main website and then it just silently slipped.

  71. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Lord+Crc · · Score: 1

    I have a 400GB Seagate SATA hard drive and it gets no where near 100MB/s, what kind of hard drive are you planning on using?

    I got two 74Gb WD Raptors in RAID 0, which can write 90-95Mbyte/s sustained (perhaps more, I measured it using VirtualDub, "recoding" an AVI to uncompressed rgb on an NTFS partition).

  72. One question: by krray · · Score: 1

    How many tapes would it take to backup Google?

    1. Re:One question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess would be little to none... Google's ever-changing dynamic indexes and the constant birth and demise of web servers on the net would make a restore from backup pretty much devastating with stale data being introduced to searches. Not to mention, their entire infrastructure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform is based on the fact that failures are expected to occur and would therefore make a restore from backup event a near impossibility.

  73. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by lukas84 · · Score: 2, Informative

    VXA-2 ist biggest piece of shit technology i've ever encountered.

    We normally use LTO Tapes (mostly 1 and 2), but some customers wanted a "budget" solution. So they got VXA-2 Tapedrives from IBM.

    Some points:

    * They are slow, and i mean real slow. 250-300mb/min slow
    * The tapes look like they are gonna break if i look at them, no comparison to LTO Tapes which look sturdy
    * The loading mechanism sucks, and also look liks it's going to break
    * Two of those VXA-2 Tapedrives actually broke after 2-3 Months in use. Yeah, got replaced in 4 hours, but it sucks nonetheless
    * The tapes are EXPENSIVE. Cost more than an LTO2 Tape without even half the capacity

    Or, in short:

    Never buy VXA-2. Buy LTO1 or LTO2. If you can afford it, LTO3.

  74. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most were never here. Those of us who someone arrived here by accident, thinking that there were people here who knew what they were talking about, have either long since left or remain to troll for our own personal entertainment.

  75. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by vadim_t · · Score: 1

    You read from a RAID, of course. If you have something like LTO3, which costs about $2.5K per drive (IIRC) you almost certainly have one of those already.

    I think the point here was that tape *can* be faster than hard disks. To get a sustained 100MB/s you need at least a couple good drives, not the cheap consumer stuff.

    IIRC, the better tape drives like LTO have the ability to slow down if data isn't coming fast enough. The cheaper ones like DDS will just stop the tape and sit there, which wears the tape, but DDS4 writes at about 2.5MB/s anyway.

  76. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Mnfats95 · · Score: 1

    Yes, I guess that would make sense. I forgot about RAID's speed increase. Even though I don't care for Tape Backups as I find them much more difficult to use and maintain, I'm sure they will be around for years to come. Since I don't deal with many Enterprise Level backup solutions I haven't had to use but one or two tape loaders and when I did they just seemed very confusing and complicated.

    Obviously if you worked with them all the time I'm sure that wouldn't be the case. I do know however that we have replaced almost 100% of the small single drive tape backups we encounter in our customer's machines with either online backup or external drives with great success.

    Granted they are dealing with a few GB of data max, but products like Acronis' True Image and Symantec's Livestate Recovery or Ghost have matured into very robust and reliable backup solutions. Even if you are a big tape fan I would recommend you play with them as they offer more than just traditional backup. I know that Livestate has saved me a ton of time 3 times in the past two years by allowing me to recover from a complete machine failure in a couple hours rather than a couple days.

    Not trying to bash tapes, just had plenty of bad experiances with them that are probably more the user's fault than the tapes, but none the less, the part of the industry I'm in you can't get rid of the EU.

    -Ashley

    --
    If your not part of the solution you are the problem.
  77. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thinking highly of yourself, are you? Bah. Oh, wait - did I just do what you alluded to be doing in the latter part of your post?

  78. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After you take the integral of the derivative of 2(pi)r, you inadvertantly replace "r" with "d" to get approximately 80. Like he said, simple calculus.

  79. Another Question by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

    How many people will have forgotten that Google even existed by the time they finish restoring all the data back from the tapes?

  80. Re:Okay. Fine. But.... by slackmaster2000 · · Score: 1

    Been using Exabyte VXA-1 and VXA-2 drives/autoloaders/media for many years with great success. Very nice for quick recovery of small file sets. Half the hardware price of LTO. Yeah you get what you pay for, but if it works it works, and for me thus far it's worked.

  81. 5 Years by Epyn · · Score: 1

    5 Years ago 40 GB drives were high end for desktop users, and most Dells and such came with 20GB 5200 rpm drives IIRC.

    I appreciate that since this is tape storage it's not the greatest point of reference, but when they say 5 years that means 7. What's the point of all this madness; all these companies have been posting fantastic leaps and bounds in storage which should be on the market in over half a decade. Five years ago people laughed at me for having a 120GB array and now they laugh at my terabyte of storage, only thing it they're still metal platter disks, no holography/3d storage, not solid state drives with ungodly limits, not phat tape drives.

    This kind of research annoys me because I have yet to see the fruits of all their labor, even last gens labor.

  82. Who needs Newegg by frazras · · Score: 1

    Who needs Newegg? I can get all those media for 10% less at Best Buy

  83. Standard Units of measurement... by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1
    That was 15 times as much data as can fit on similar space on magnetic tapes considered the current industry standard, IBM spokesman Mike Ross told AFP.

    A cartridge half the size of a typical VHS tape cartridge used in home recorders will be able to hold the text from eight million books that would fill 57 miles (92 kilometers) of bookshelves, according to researchers.


    Where's the standard units of measurement? Such as how many Libraries of Congress is this?

    But seriously, why can't they just say, compared to a LTO-3 tape, which holds XGB, this increased density will allow the same tape to hold Y GB.
    1. Re:Standard Units of measurement... by almadenmike · · Score: 1

      Check out the details, including comparisons to LTO-3, and magnetic force microscope images of the bits themselves here: http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/pr.nsf/pages/n ews.20060516_magnetic.html

      Unfortunatley, the Library of Congress doesn't say give any TB or PB equivalent for their collections. Over the years, I've seen statements of the size of their text only equivalent -- the LoC has lots of images, maps and photos that wouldn't be counted in this metric -- rise from 2 to 10 TB.

  84. Personally... by dbucowboy · · Score: 1

    I'd rather use 500 1GB flash drives... there's no reason to keep all of that data in one place.

    --
    This just in! 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population.
  85. That's nothing! by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

    Yo momma so fat that I had to use MBone to dl her picture.

  86. Does this change a Universal? by Nukenbar2 · · Score: 0

    Of bandwidth measurement of VW Beetles of Tape / hour?

  87. Backup Strategy by BigCheese · · Score: 1

    It's all about having a good backup strategy. For home users the USB/Firewire removable drives are probably good enough. If your business continuity depends on your data you need better. Disk for online backup, tape for offsite. You need both.

    If the disk backup is online all the time you risk losing your backups to errors (OS or human) but are
    great for automated restores (i.e. the "I deleted the $IMPORTANT_SPREADSHEET from the shared drive" problem). Tape is used to get your business back up and running after disasters of all sorts. Find a good storage service. A lot of companies in the World Trade Center kept their offsite backups in the other tower.

    Oh yes, the most important bit is to test your recovery procedures. I've seen too many cases where people thought their backups were good but they missed critical files. If you haven't tested your restore you don't have a good backup.

    Me personally, I keep my important files on my file server on a RAID1 (mirror) array and use a USB drive for backups periodically. For home use I find that using the philosophy of "never trust a single spindle" works for most cases. I still need to add an offsite backup though.

    I used to keep archived stuff offline on tape/floppy/ZIP disk but with disk as cheap as it is I just keep it all online and keep migrating new drives into the server array.

    For long term storage (5+ years) I just don't know. Magnetic media has fade, burned optical media won't last all that long (it's just emulsion). Pressed optical (DVD/CD) media will probably last a bit longer but the adhesives used to hold the plastic together may degrade over the longer term.

    --
    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
  88. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by BigCheese · · Score: 1

    The problem with payroll/HR/whatnot data is not so much keeping it but having the metadata around to read it in a few years.

    Most IT departments have the rack of permanantly archived tapes that the government requires them to keep. In many cases they were written by various payroll/HR/whatnot systems that are no longer in use and nobody has the metadata to read them.

    In the olden days we just used a tape that was going to be tossed anyway. In rare case that you needed to read it if you couldn't because of media fade or lack of metadata you just called it lost data.
    The government requires you to HAVE the data not be able to READ the data.

    I imagine it could be a lot better now by saving it as XML with it's associated Schema. It sure would beat mapping the data to a COBOL WORKING STORAGE definition.

    --
    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
  89. Unit conversion! by operagost · · Score: 1
    A cartridge half the size of a typical VHS tape cartridge used in home recorders will be able to hold the text from eight million books that would fill 57 miles (92 kilometers) of bookshelves, according to researchers.
    Can anyone tell me how many "libraries of congress" or "station wagons of DLTs" that would be?
    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  90. Re:My interest is piqued. But... by aka1nas · · Score: 1

    Actually, from what I have read Hard Drives DO read about twice as fast as they write. The transfer rate quoted is usually the read speed. You would need a fairly burly RAID array to break 100MB/s write speed. RAID 5 usually has poor write speeds and a plain RAID 0 is obviously not going to cut it for anything mission critical.

  91. Re:what Sony claimed by almadenmike · · Score: 1

    Sony's achievement used helical scan -- IBM's is with linear tape, which is much more commonly used for data storage. Also, Sony used evaporated metal tape. IBM used the economical "dual-coat" tape, which is a newly created formulation of Fuji Photo Film's NANOCUBIC tape.

    For more details, and magnetic force microscope images of the bits themselves, see: http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/pr.nsf/pages/n ews.20060516_magnetic.html