They adhere to self-imposed commandments of caution, yes. But this is more a multilaterally agreed-upon document describing a press ethics guidance than an enforced law, meant to shield individual people against unfair or libellious coverage. A sort of common policy, if you like - this has never been intended to get in the way of criticism of the government, and to the best of my knowledge, it never has. To see an example of.no newspapers standing up in controversy, see the Muhammad drawings. All the major newspapers clearly supported Jyllands-Postens right to write what they did, and criticized our minister of culture for apologizing for them.
On the Monty Python front - the Norwegians (initially) banned the film "Life of Brian".
Yes, what a tragedy that was. The Life of Brian was successfully censored under the blasphemy paragraph. Fortunately, the paragraph is now completely dormant, and there is talk of having it removed... TLOB was the last successful invocation of the blasphemy paragraph.
Stuff like the PATRIOT Act, Guantanamo and the like are horrible and should be gotten rid of, but speaking in relative terms they really aren't that bad.
I don't know enough about the PATRIOT act to speak for or against it, but I'm sorry, no: Guantanamo Bay is absolutely inexcusable. It really is that bad.
We're still an extraordinarily free society...
Actually, you're far below par for the course in Europe. You do seem to enjoy talking about it the loudest, though.
It's working just fine, thank you. The PATRIOT Act has nothing to do with free speech. Absolutely nothing whatsoever. The objections to certain articles of the PATRIOT Act have to do with invasion of privacy and a perceived lack of judicial oversight for certain provisions.
I wasn't referring directly to freedom of speech, but to civil rights. You're right, the US has a very good history of freedom of press, and if what you say is true, then the RWB report is certainly of questionable value. I was basically just a bit peeved at the OP basically calling Norway a totalitarian state, which couldn't be further from the truth.:)
Your English isn't bad because you're Norwegian, it's bad because you're an idiot.
You know, where the current administration are fighting private schools to avoid thoughts that are not socialistic enough.
No, it's to avoid religious nutcase schools like Liberty University and the like in the US. And it's a good thing, too. And the recent school reforms are as unsocialistic as they get.
Where the state takes most of what you earn by direct and hidden taxes.
The Norwegian populace doesn't exactly seem to be starving.
Where the state has their own media house to spew out their propaganda financed by anyone owning a TV,
Ehhh... NRK is not controlled by the state. It has complete editorial freedom, both in theory and practice, and is frequently critical of the government.
NRK is BTW an excellent TV network, and is worth every penny.
and it for a while was illegal to watch TV that was not controlled by it.
Yes, it's called a TV license. It's a very common thing around Europe, and is more strictly enforced other places than here. It's a yearly fee you pay for owning a TV. I don't know what you mean by "controlled"... It's still illegal to own a TV without paying the license.
We were the first, actually, using a Honeywell 316 TIP as the node. The node name was NORSAR-TIP, and we used a 2.4Kbit satellite link. 20 minutes later, London was on the ARPAnet, through us.
That's so clueless I'm going to go ahead and assume you're an American here. I'm also going to point out that Norway consistently ranks in the top five in various agencies' ratings of press and speech freedom. The United States...doesn't. How's that PATRIOT act working out for y'all?
Actually, I kind of figured that was going on, we have dumbass politicians...
None of the members of this panel are politicians, they are merely relatively senior employees of various agencies, including the Norwegian FCC (Post & Teletilsynet).
This is a suggestion by a panel of employees at a cybercrime commission formed by the previous, conservative government, and none of the people on the board have been chosen by politicians.
As I've said in other posts, this does not stand a snowball's chance in hell of passing.
Yes, this is mentioned in TFA. On the whole, the article is extremely critical to the suggestion.
The suggestion has been posed now by a commission formed in 2002 (by the right-wing government then in power). The positions of the councilmembers is not political in nature, i.e. simply random employees of the FCC.
This suggestion doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of passing. I'm willing to bet any vital organ.
There's a thoughtful comment based on a complete view of the facts of the situation if I've ever seen one.
If you'd RTNorwegianA, it says quite clearly that this is merely a suggestion by a panel at a cybercrime law enforcement agency, and has seemingly been universally panned by politicians, media, and the populace alike.
...a jam-packed train in Öresund, Sweden. A middle-aged man in a suit is sitting down, reading business documents. But occasionally, beeps come from his cellphone. He is visibly more annoyed for each time, and looks around him.
Finally, he's had enough, and gets up and yells... "WHO THE HELL KEEPS BLUETOOTHING ME GAY PORN ALL THE TIME?!"
This is actually my main use for laptops, I use them as consoles on my ND-5700, and my VAX, and my PDP-11... It's not a proper VAX-11/700 series, I guess, but it still counts.. right?:)
You're changing the subject. The potential sacrifice in bandwidth was a very small sidepoint compared to the relative merits of rolling your own ncurses-alike and using ncurses itself - even though I'd expect ncurses to be able to optimize far better than most programmers could (or even should), using general functions.
unlike you, I've used ncurses. It isn't needed in many cases, and is not just overkill, but the wrong tool for the job. Firstly, I've used it for years, and like countless others I am very happy about it. Your assumption is quite frankly stupid. I've used it going back to 4.3BSD on a VAX 6000, and with a range of real terminals, from Tandberg (Really, really excellent terminals!), Facit, DEC (of course), and HP. Secondly, I find you saying that it's not the right tool for the job highly ironic considering your next statement:
Quite the contrary, it isn't clear at all. Do you have the design specs? The use cases? The different modes of operation? Didn't think so. It was summarized in the question. Low bandwidth use was a critical feature, on an IBM system which is likely to use terminals which brings me to the next item...
Ncurses is butt-ugly. and btw, while a lot of terminals aren't just "ansi", they speak ansi. ...a *lot* of IBM terminals do not. Sure, you have the ones like the 3151, and such - but they're often the exception. Secondly, a lot of terminals have their quirks and optimizations which ncurses will automagically compensate for. I've written a torture test that will almost always fail.
Also, even totally unoptimized ansi runs fine on 19.2k multi-port serial connections. Firstly, old terminals usually have to do XON/XOFF when encountering escape codes because of the microprocessor needing to run the codes themselves. I have a high-end serial console which cost as much as a (okay, Soviet import, but..:) car in the day. It will occasionally have to pause output, even at 4800 which I run it at. Secondly, the bandwidth is stated to be severely limited.
Clearer operating modes, fewer bugs. That's always a good thing. Are you saying that throwing away a widely adopted, 15-year-old time-proven library to do ones own implementation of basically exactly what ncurses does... causes less bugs?
"Those who don't know ncurses are doomed to reinvent it, badly."
Seriously, though. Your arguments make no sense.
Using ncurses when you don't need to is dumb.
Yes, of course, but it's fairly clear that this is the ideal use case for ncurses.
Adding complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't make sense.
Again, does not apply. ncurses is actually quite elegant, and well thought-out. It's adding complexity for the sake of portability across terminals, speed (ncurses optimizes escape codes far better than most programmers who do it by hand), and abstraction (a lot of the terminals in the field aren't ANSI.)
Avoiding ncurses means avoiding event loops, callbacks, etc.
Yes, and this is a good thing how?
Or have you ever even used it?
Well, I have, a lot, and I've found it to be more than worth it. It's a well-thought out, 15-year-old library which is the swiss army knife of console TUIs. It's the standard library for a reason!
...indicates that you might still be living with these abominations... kill it... kill it with fire...
Hehe... I'm a computer historian, and a computer history hobbyist.:) I have more nodes on my home BNC LAN than my TP LAN! I have thicknet in my basement but I simply did not have machines spaced 1.5 meters apart in my tiny appartment.;) Current inventory hilights are 2 PDP-11s, three VAXen, four NORD-100s (Norwegian minicomputers, lovely boxes), etc, etc.
The backbone was a five port AUI concentrator... it was too primitive to be called a hub. (AUI was Sun's insane proprietary ethernet connector.)
It doesn't get more primitive than a hub. It was known as a "fanout unit" back then, though, or some other names. AUI was not Sun proprietary, it was an open standard, and for near a decade was the standard interface between a machine and the physical layer. a BNC co-ax hub used just to hook up workstations in a star topology... for whatever reason, they decided that ring topology wasn't good enough to string five lightly used workstations together.
Presuming that by "ring" you mean "bus", a hubbed star-wired network is still a bus topology. Possibly they did this for reliability reasons (So that one could not just unplug ones T-joint and bring down the whole BNC loop) but that's just a guess.
Slashdot Mirror
They adhere to self-imposed commandments of caution, yes. But this is more a multilaterally agreed-upon document describing a press ethics guidance than an enforced law, meant to shield individual people against unfair or libellious coverage. A sort of common policy, if you like - this has never been intended to get in the way of criticism of the government, and to the best of my knowledge, it never has. To see an example of .no newspapers standing up in controversy, see the Muhammad drawings. All the major newspapers clearly supported Jyllands-Postens right to write what they did, and criticized our minister of culture for apologizing for them.
On the Monty Python front - the Norwegians (initially) banned the film "Life of Brian".
Yes, what a tragedy that was. The Life of Brian was successfully censored under the blasphemy paragraph. Fortunately, the paragraph is now completely dormant, and there is talk of having it removed... TLOB was the last successful invocation of the blasphemy paragraph.
Stuff like the PATRIOT Act, Guantanamo and the like are horrible and should be gotten rid of, but speaking in relative terms they really aren't that bad.
I don't know enough about the PATRIOT act to speak for or against it, but I'm sorry, no: Guantanamo Bay is absolutely inexcusable. It really is that bad.
We're still an extraordinarily free society...
Actually, you're far below par for the course in Europe. You do seem to enjoy talking about it the loudest, though.
It's working just fine, thank you. The PATRIOT Act has nothing to do with free speech. Absolutely nothing whatsoever. The objections to certain articles of the PATRIOT Act have to do with invasion of privacy and a perceived lack of judicial oversight for certain provisions.
:)
I wasn't referring directly to freedom of speech, but to civil rights. You're right, the US has a very good history of freedom of press, and if what you say is true, then the RWB report is certainly of questionable value. I was basically just a bit peeved at the OP basically calling Norway a totalitarian state, which couldn't be further from the truth.
(Sorry about my English, I am Norwegian)
Your English isn't bad because you're Norwegian, it's bad because you're an idiot.
You know, where the current administration are fighting private schools to avoid thoughts that are not socialistic enough.
No, it's to avoid religious nutcase schools like Liberty University and the like in the US. And it's a good thing, too. And the recent school reforms are as unsocialistic as they get.
Where the state takes most of what you earn by direct and hidden taxes.
The Norwegian populace doesn't exactly seem to be starving.
Where the state has their own media house to spew out their propaganda financed by anyone owning a TV,
Ehhh... NRK is not controlled by the state. It has complete editorial freedom, both in theory and practice, and is frequently critical of the government. NRK is BTW an excellent TV network, and is worth every penny.
and it for a while was illegal to watch TV that was not controlled by it.
Yes, it's called a TV license. It's a very common thing around Europe, and is more strictly enforced other places than here. It's a yearly fee you pay for owning a TV. I don't know what you mean by "controlled"... It's still illegal to own a TV without paying the license.
Thanks - informative post indeed. Might also be worth a mention that the authority for computer crime was founded in 2002, by amongst others, Høyre.
We were the first, actually, using a Honeywell 316 TIP as the node. The node name was NORSAR-TIP, and we used a 2.4Kbit satellite link. 20 minutes later, London was on the ARPAnet, through us.
Øh my Gød! Yøu're absølutely right! Nøøøøøøøøøø!!!
This post will be censored in Norway
...doesn't. How's that PATRIOT act working out for y'all?
That's so clueless I'm going to go ahead and assume you're an American here. I'm also going to point out that Norway consistently ranks in the top five in various agencies' ratings of press and speech freedom. The United States
Actually, I kind of figured that was going on, we have dumbass politicians...
None of the members of this panel are politicians, they are merely relatively senior employees of various agencies, including the Norwegian FCC (Post & Teletilsynet).
GAH!, why was this modded Insightful....
This is a suggestion by a panel of employees at a cybercrime commission formed by the previous, conservative government, and none of the people on the board have been chosen by politicians.
As I've said in other posts, this does not stand a snowball's chance in hell of passing.
Yes, this is mentioned in TFA. On the whole, the article is extremely critical to the suggestion.
The suggestion has been posed now by a commission formed in 2002 (by the right-wing government then in power). The positions of the councilmembers is not political in nature, i.e. simply random employees of the FCC.
This suggestion doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of passing. I'm willing to bet any vital organ.
We have a pirate party too here in Norway. :)
There's a thoughtful comment based on a complete view of the facts of the situation if I've ever seen one.
If you'd RTNorwegianA, it says quite clearly that this is merely a suggestion by a panel at a cybercrime law enforcement agency, and has seemingly been universally panned by politicians, media, and the populace alike.
Tore - The Norwegian Guy.
Yes, I am indeed talking about Tjuvlyssnad. I should have attributed it, sorry. It's a great site, and your quote is one of my favorites.
...a jam-packed train in Öresund, Sweden. A middle-aged man in a suit is sitting down, reading business documents. But occasionally, beeps come from his cellphone. He is visibly more annoyed for each time, and looks around him.
Finally, he's had enough, and gets up and yells...
"WHO THE HELL KEEPS BLUETOOTHING ME GAY PORN ALL THE TIME?!"
This is actually my main use for laptops, I use them as consoles on my ND-5700, and my VAX, and my PDP-11... It's not a proper VAX-11/700 series, I guess, but it still counts.. right? :)
You're calling ncurses dirty but you're saying you could store terminal escape codes in a varchar?!
You're inconsistent, self-contradictory and wrong. I guess that's what you get when arguing on slashdot.
You're changing the subject. The potential sacrifice in bandwidth was a very small sidepoint compared to the relative merits of rolling your own ncurses-alike and using ncurses itself - even though I'd expect ncurses to be able to optimize far better than most programmers could (or even should), using general functions.
"Those who don't know ncurses are doomed to reinvent it, badly."
Seriously, though. Your arguments make no sense.
Using ncurses when you don't need to is dumb.
Yes, of course, but it's fairly clear that this is the ideal use case for ncurses.
Adding complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't make sense.
Again, does not apply. ncurses is actually quite elegant, and well thought-out. It's adding complexity for the sake of portability across terminals, speed (ncurses optimizes escape codes far better than most programmers who do it by hand), and abstraction (a lot of the terminals in the field aren't ANSI.)
Avoiding ncurses means avoiding event loops, callbacks, etc.
Yes, and this is a good thing how?
Or have you ever even used it?
Well, I have, a lot, and I've found it to be more than worth it. It's a well-thought out, 15-year-old library which is the swiss army knife of console TUIs. It's the standard library for a reason!
...indicates that you might still be living with these abominations... kill it... kill it with fire...
:) I have more nodes on my home BNC LAN than my TP LAN! I have thicknet in my basement but I simply did not have machines spaced 1.5 meters apart in my tiny appartment. ;) Current inventory hilights are 2 PDP-11s, three VAXen, four NORD-100s (Norwegian minicomputers, lovely boxes), etc, etc.
Hehe... I'm a computer historian, and a computer history hobbyist.
That's awesome! Lovely read, too.
The backbone was a five port AUI concentrator... it was too primitive to be called a hub. (AUI was Sun's insane proprietary ethernet connector.)
It doesn't get more primitive than a hub. It was known as a "fanout unit" back then, though, or some other names. AUI was not Sun proprietary, it was an open standard, and for near a decade was the standard interface between a machine and the physical layer.
a BNC co-ax hub used just to hook up workstations in a star topology... for whatever reason, they decided that ring topology wasn't good enough to string five lightly used workstations together.
Presuming that by "ring" you mean "bus", a hubbed star-wired network is still a bus topology. Possibly they did this for reliability reasons (So that one could not just unplug ones T-joint and bring down the whole BNC loop) but that's just a guess.