They had this form factor of device already.... and running Windows CE. They called them Handheld PC Pros (the Handheld PC were small clamshells).
Guess what.... they sucked and they flopped. If I want an oversized PDA with an anemic buggy OS, I'll get an old NEC MobilePro 800 off of eBay for $40.
I had one for a while.... it ended up running NetBSD/hpcmips with a USB Zip drive attached with velcro. I got bored with it about 6 years ago.
CE really does suck hairy monkey nuts. I had some CE-based thin clients that worked well but that was about it. I've owned an iPaq, an HP320LX, a Sharp Mobilon, an NEC MobilePro, and an Everex Freestyle.
Each one I got frustrated and ended up either getting rid of it or it ended up running Linux or NetBSD. CE is NOT worth the effort. At all. I'll use an old Newton MP2000 before I ever buy a new WinCE device that there's no Linux port for.
The EEE PC is a HELL of a lot more functional and useful with Linux than WinCE. Why XP is even taken seriously on the EEE PC I'll never know.
I can't stand proprietary binary drivers. Not because I'm a linux zealot (I'm a BSD guy actually)or a revolutionary. I use multiple architectures that many vendors wouldn't be willing to recompile a driver for. If Broadcom released a Linux/x86 or NetBSD/i386 driver for a PCMCIA wireless card, what the f**k am I supposed to do for a Tadpole SPARCbook? Or an AlphaBook? Or an MIPS-based PDA with a PCMCIA slot? Or my linux-based iPAQ?
ESR backing this is good for Linux/x86, and that's about it. It's bad for *BSD period and bad for linux on ANY other computing architectures! This is selling out while gaining VERY LITTLE for open source as a whole and assuring x86 dominance indefinitely.
I'm against laws prohibiting modification OF MY OWN DAMN POSESSIONS. That's like saying I can't put a heavier recoil spring in my handgun, or improve the fuel mileage in my car with a better carb.
HOW LONG BEFORE I NEED TO HAVE A FEDERALLY APPROVED "SOLDERING IRON" OR "OSCILLOSCOPE" LICENSE?!
Now this guy got nailed for piracy but the quote about "chipping consoles is an illegal act" towards the end makes me uneasy. Real uneasy. It's only a matter of time before people get nailed like this under the US DMCA.
They aren't using this guy as a posterboy for generic anti-piracy, they are using him as an example for mod-chipping.
Technology itself does not cause me any undue stress. It's the general populace's ignorance of technology that causes me undue stress.
The people that refuse to learn ANYTHING about the system that runs their lives and makes their work possible. The people whose office I have to traverse 3 floors to get to who can't figure out HOW TO PRINT A DOCUMENT FOR THE 347th TIME. THE PEOPLE WITH 2 4-YEAR DEGREES WITH TWICE MY F**KING SALARY WHO TRY TO GET MY JOB OUT-SOURCED BECAUSE I'M "NOT NEEDED"!
The same damn people who call me at 11:00 PM while I'm getting drunk and banging my wife. On the Nextel phone provided to them with the "walkie-talkie" because they want me to walk them through sending an e-mail and programming their VCR.
The same damn people who can't even program a couple phone numbers in their cell phone and call me to their office to help them.
The same damn people who won't even let me hire a Jr. Network Admin to be my bitch to handle this piddly crap while I'm trying to keep things running and write software.
The same people who blame me for lost data because they were too stupid to save it. "You need to find someone who can keep these computers from always being down, I lost 200 pages!"
The same people who go above me and say "the internet is down" when they can't get to the MSN Start page or can't talk to 14fem-JailBait6347 with Yahoo/MSN/AOL Instant Messenger.
The same people who complain to the President that the computers are crappy because I got rid of all the PC's and forced them to use RDP terminals w/ terminal services with restrictive group policy because of all the above problems. "We need Windows XP 2004, I've got it at home and it's way better and shiny! I can't even right-click anymore!" (I would have used X Terminals but we have a certain proprietary DB that is Winblows based, everything BUT system is BSD UNIX).
In my personal life, technology is blissful.
Professionally, I don't think most people should be allowed NEAR a computer (or anything electronic) without proper training, we'll call it a "computing license". Not saying they need to be computer scientists or pay for courses. Just pass prerequisite tests prior to employment.
Most people complain and say "computers are unreliable, we should go back to typewriters and pencils, that was easier!" Due to their phobia and refusal to grow a clue, it IS more efficient and easier for them to use pencils and typewriters. So I say....LET THEM.
Technology is not stressful. Technology in the wrong people's hands is nothing but stress. I've actually considered buying an SKS or an AK-47 and having LART hand-engraved on the stock.
For me, technology makes life fun and worth living. There's always something new around the corner and always something to play with and keep me busy be it coding, playing games, breaking out the soldering iron, watching TV, etc.
I use Linux AND BSD extensively so I'm not going to try to be offensive and start a flame war but....
It depends on your definition of stable linux port. BSD developers tend to have a severe case of obsessive-compulsive disorder. They thrive on efficiency and simplicity. That's why I can run a modern BSD-based OS on my old DEC MicroVAX 3300 w/ 20 megs of RAM and still have it be usable. (I know there is/was a Linux/VAX port but it's flopped.)
Nothing in the BSD world is considered stable by the various *BSD projects until it has been beaten to death for years. Though the FreeBSD project makes "unstable" releases like the entire 5.x branch, they at least inform the world that it's unstable. (for what it's worth I've heard it's not THAT bad now)
Look at how often NetBSD actually does a release, early NetBSD releases (not to mention 386BSD) predate Linux yet NetBSD's most recent "stable" release is 1.6.1.
My experience with the latest and greatest Linux distro "stable releases" would definately qualify them as "experimental".
Linux has a lot of commercial support and drivers are available a lot faster for the latest video cards for playing Quake which has advantages, lately the Linux community doesn't have to bust ass as much to reverse engineer drivers.
To sum it up, the BSD projects tend to do things in the name of good old fashioned text book computer science and Linux tries to push the envelope. Both approaches have their advantages and performance is roughly the same that I've seen.
I prefer the BSD environment because it's simple, comfortable and just works (providing I don't buy crap hardware like WinModems, Broadcom 802.11 cards or brainless USB printers).
If I really want to run Linux binaries, I can with virtually no performance hit. Same with SCO UNIX, Ultrix/VAX, Ultrix/MIPS, Solaris, Xenix, DEC UNIX/OSF1, MacOS X/Darwin (to a point), etc.
Not to mention, the NetBSD machine-independant driver architecture is too cool for words.
Enough about BSD though. I do use Linux quite a bit for some things, our corporate web/mail server runs Debian Linux because NetBSD/sparc64 doesn't support SMP on UltraSPARC machines yet. Multimedia support is a bit better under Linux too, Video4Linux is very cool. The only real video capture cards supported under NetBSD and FreeBSD are the BT848/878/etc, Matrox Meteor (ancient) and QuickCams.
It's all a trade-off really. Though *BSD suffers because of it, I actually like the fact that the projects do not play to media hype, politics and goofy marketing (*cough* LIN*GASP*DOWS *cough*).
Linux does support a lot of platforms but not NEARLY as many as NetBSD. Most Linux ports aren't as complete either.
NetBSD runs on everything from a VAX to handhelds (HP Jornada, Sharp Mobilon, iPaq) to the Amiga to Atari Falcon/TT030 to 68k and PPC macs to the BeBOX to the Opteron/Athlon64, almost every proto board for 32 and 64-bit CPU's in existance.
This is just to name a few. NetBSD also utilizes a machine-independant driver architecture so you can take an SBLive! and slap it in your old PowerMac G3 and it will "just work". If you have a QBUS PCI bridge and QBUS cage, you can take that crufty old TK-70 tape drive controller out of your MicroVAX and slap it in your PC.
64-bit instructions not being used? Maybe not under Win64 or "early version of a linux distro supporting it"....
NetBSD had full support for the Hammer architecture before IT WAS EVEN BURNED ON SILICON. It is also a true 64-bit operating system unlike Debian/SPARC64 which utilizes a 64-bit kernel w/ 32-bit userland.
NetBSD is definately 64-bit clean for the most part.
And no, BSD is *NOT* dying.
Re:Atari! THAT brings back memories.
on
First Computers
·
· Score: 1
My parents had an Atari 400 then straight 48k 800 w/48k of RAM.
They bought me an 800XL about 6 months later for Christmas then a couple years later a 130XE. I spent countless hours rotting away in front of the Amdek monitor typing programs out of Antic magazine. A lot of people still don't believe the 800XL and the XE series were capable of 256 color graphics at low resolution (192x80 or something like that, less than an average Palm).
I loved these machines, I even had a SCSI interface that used that warped I/O bus on the XL's. We switched to ST's a while later then to macs for some reason. The Atari ST's were really slick as well, 512 colors, built-in midi, sound chip from hell, SCSI!. The 16-bit micro era didn't last all that long.
Anyway, enough about my life story. I've owned a ton of different machines over the years, but I still get a grin on my face when I look at an Atari. My parents had the 400 since the day I was born and one of my fondest memories was playing Missle Command and Star Raiders with my grandfather barely after learning to walk.
I remember growing up from (essentially) the beginning of the "microcomputer revolution" to where we stand today. At least computers then usually forced the people using them to grow a brain, now they just call helpdesk and say it's the SysAdmins fault they can't get to a site that's down.
Despite all of this I still have a social life, a wife and kids. Heh.
I have a BSD machine here that's been up 322 days. I've NEVER had any issues. You either:
A.) Have drive issues.
B.) Have other misconfiguration or hardware issues.
C.) Need to buy a good book.
Windows is FAR less stable than BSD and yes, I am Microsoft certified. BSD is on the top of the netcraft uptime charts.
The only advantage Windows has over BSD is DirectX and a wide availability of games.
I run FreeBSD on several PC's and NetBSD on sparc, sparc64 and VAX machines.
I don't think it was an OS problem, it was the guy behind the keyboard that thought the MCSE cert would get him an easy ride.
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They had this form factor of device already.... and running Windows CE. They called them Handheld PC Pros (the Handheld PC were small clamshells).
Guess what.... they sucked and they flopped. If I want an oversized PDA with an anemic buggy OS, I'll get an old NEC MobilePro 800 off of eBay for $40.
I had one for a while.... it ended up running NetBSD/hpcmips with a USB Zip drive attached with velcro. I got bored with it about 6 years ago.
CE really does suck hairy monkey nuts. I had some CE-based thin clients that worked well but that was about it. I've owned an iPaq, an HP320LX, a Sharp Mobilon, an NEC MobilePro, and an Everex Freestyle.
Each one I got frustrated and ended up either getting rid of it or it ended up running Linux or NetBSD. CE is NOT worth the effort. At all. I'll use an old Newton MP2000 before I ever buy a new WinCE device that there's no Linux port for.
The EEE PC is a HELL of a lot more functional and useful with Linux than WinCE. Why XP is even taken seriously on the EEE PC I'll never know.
I can't stand proprietary binary drivers. Not because I'm a linux zealot (I'm a BSD guy actually)or a revolutionary. I use multiple architectures that many vendors wouldn't be willing to recompile a driver for. If Broadcom released a Linux/x86 or NetBSD/i386 driver for a PCMCIA wireless card, what the f**k am I supposed to do for a Tadpole SPARCbook? Or an AlphaBook? Or an MIPS-based PDA with a PCMCIA slot? Or my linux-based iPAQ?
ESR backing this is good for Linux/x86, and that's about it. It's bad for *BSD period and bad for linux on ANY other computing architectures! This is selling out while gaining VERY LITTLE for open source as a whole and assuring x86 dominance indefinitely.
I'm against laws prohibiting modification OF MY OWN DAMN POSESSIONS. That's like saying I can't put a heavier recoil spring in my handgun, or improve the fuel mileage in my car with a better carb.
HOW LONG BEFORE I NEED TO HAVE A FEDERALLY APPROVED "SOLDERING IRON" OR "OSCILLOSCOPE" LICENSE?!
Now this guy got nailed for piracy but the quote about "chipping consoles is an illegal act" towards the end makes me uneasy. Real uneasy. It's only a matter of time before people get nailed like this under the US DMCA.
They aren't using this guy as a posterboy for generic anti-piracy, they are using him as an example for mod-chipping.
Technology itself does not cause me any undue stress. It's the general populace's ignorance of technology that causes me undue stress.
The people that refuse to learn ANYTHING about the system that runs their lives and makes their work possible. The people whose office I have to traverse 3 floors to get to who can't figure out HOW TO PRINT A DOCUMENT FOR THE 347th TIME. THE PEOPLE WITH 2 4-YEAR DEGREES WITH TWICE MY F**KING SALARY WHO TRY TO GET MY JOB OUT-SOURCED BECAUSE I'M "NOT NEEDED"!
The same damn people who call me at 11:00 PM while I'm getting drunk and banging my wife. On the Nextel phone provided to them with the "walkie-talkie" because they want me to walk them through sending an e-mail and programming their VCR.
The same damn people who can't even program a couple phone numbers in their cell phone and call me to their office to help them.
The same damn people who won't even let me hire a Jr. Network Admin to be my bitch to handle this piddly crap while I'm trying to keep things running and write software.
The same people who blame me for lost data because they were too stupid to save it. "You need to find someone who can keep these computers from always being down, I lost 200 pages!"
The same people who go above me and say "the internet is down" when they can't get to the MSN Start page or can't talk to 14fem-JailBait6347 with Yahoo/MSN/AOL Instant Messenger.
The same people who complain to the President that the computers are crappy because I got rid of all the PC's and forced them to use RDP terminals w/ terminal services with restrictive group policy because of all the above problems. "We need Windows XP 2004, I've got it at home and it's way better and shiny! I can't even right-click anymore!"
(I would have used X Terminals but we have a certain proprietary DB that is Winblows based, everything BUT system is BSD UNIX).
In my personal life, technology is blissful.
Professionally, I don't think most people should be allowed NEAR a computer (or anything electronic) without proper training, we'll call it a "computing license". Not saying they need to be computer scientists or pay for courses. Just pass prerequisite tests prior to employment.
Most people complain and say "computers are unreliable, we should go back to typewriters and pencils, that was easier!" Due to their phobia and refusal to grow a clue, it IS more efficient and easier for them to use pencils and typewriters. So I say....LET THEM.
Technology is not stressful. Technology in the wrong people's hands is nothing but stress. I've actually considered buying an SKS or an AK-47 and having LART hand-engraved on the stock.
For me, technology makes life fun and worth living. There's always something new around the corner and always something to play with and keep me busy be it coding, playing games, breaking out the soldering iron, watching TV, etc.
--Kevin
I use Linux AND BSD extensively so I'm not going to try to be offensive and start a flame war but....
It depends on your definition of stable linux port. BSD developers tend to have a severe case of obsessive-compulsive disorder. They thrive on efficiency and simplicity. That's why I can run a modern BSD-based OS on my old DEC MicroVAX 3300 w/ 20 megs of RAM and still have it be usable. (I know there is/was a Linux/VAX port but it's flopped.)
Nothing in the BSD world is considered stable by the various *BSD projects until it has been beaten to death for years. Though the FreeBSD project makes "unstable" releases like the entire 5.x branch, they at least inform the world that it's unstable. (for what it's worth I've heard it's not THAT bad now)
Look at how often NetBSD actually does a release, early NetBSD releases (not to mention 386BSD) predate Linux yet NetBSD's most recent "stable" release is 1.6.1.
My experience with the latest and greatest Linux distro "stable releases" would definately qualify them as "experimental".
Linux has a lot of commercial support and drivers are available a lot faster for the latest video cards for playing Quake which has advantages, lately the Linux community doesn't have to bust ass as much to reverse engineer drivers.
To sum it up, the BSD projects tend to do things in the name of good old fashioned text book computer science and Linux tries to push the envelope. Both approaches have their advantages and performance is roughly the same that I've seen.
I prefer the BSD environment because it's simple, comfortable and just works (providing I don't buy crap hardware like WinModems, Broadcom 802.11 cards or brainless USB printers).
If I really want to run Linux binaries, I can with virtually no performance hit. Same with SCO UNIX, Ultrix/VAX, Ultrix/MIPS, Solaris, Xenix, DEC UNIX/OSF1, MacOS X/Darwin (to a point), etc.
Not to mention, the NetBSD machine-independant driver architecture is too cool for words.
Enough about BSD though. I do use Linux quite a bit for some things, our corporate web/mail server runs Debian Linux because NetBSD/sparc64 doesn't support SMP on UltraSPARC machines yet. Multimedia support is a bit better under Linux too, Video4Linux is very cool. The only real video capture cards supported under NetBSD and FreeBSD are the BT848/878/etc, Matrox Meteor (ancient) and QuickCams.
It's all a trade-off really. Though *BSD suffers because of it, I actually like the fact that the projects do not play to media hype, politics and goofy marketing (*cough* LIN*GASP*DOWS *cough*).
Linux does support a lot of platforms but not NEARLY as many as NetBSD. Most Linux ports aren't as complete either.
NetBSD runs on everything from a VAX to handhelds (HP Jornada, Sharp Mobilon, iPaq) to the Amiga to Atari Falcon/TT030 to 68k and PPC macs to the BeBOX to the Opteron/Athlon64, almost every proto board for 32 and 64-bit CPU's in existance.
This is just to name a few. NetBSD also utilizes a machine-independant driver architecture so you can take an SBLive! and slap it in your old PowerMac G3 and it will "just work". If you have a QBUS PCI bridge and QBUS cage, you can take that crufty old TK-70 tape drive controller out of your MicroVAX and slap it in your PC.
www.netbsd.org
Take a look, it's worth it.
64-bit instructions not being used? Maybe not under Win64 or "early version of a linux distro supporting it"....
NetBSD had full support for the Hammer architecture before IT WAS EVEN BURNED ON SILICON. It is also a true 64-bit operating system unlike Debian/SPARC64 which utilizes a 64-bit kernel w/ 32-bit userland.
NetBSD is definately 64-bit clean for the most part.
And no, BSD is *NOT* dying.
My parents had an Atari 400 then straight 48k 800 w/48k of RAM.
They bought me an 800XL about 6 months later for Christmas then a couple years later a 130XE. I spent countless hours rotting away in front of the Amdek monitor typing programs out of Antic magazine. A lot of people still don't believe the 800XL and the XE series were capable of 256 color graphics at low resolution (192x80 or something like that, less than an average Palm).
I loved these machines, I even had a SCSI interface that used that warped I/O bus on the XL's. We switched to ST's a while later then to macs for some reason. The Atari ST's were really slick as well, 512 colors, built-in midi, sound chip from hell, SCSI!. The 16-bit micro era didn't last all that long.
Anyway, enough about my life story. I've owned a ton of different machines over the years, but I still get a grin on my face when I look at an Atari. My parents had the 400 since the day I was born and one of my fondest memories was playing Missle Command and Star Raiders with my grandfather barely after learning to walk.
I remember growing up from (essentially) the beginning of the "microcomputer revolution" to where we stand today. At least computers then usually forced the people using them to grow a brain, now they just call helpdesk and say it's the SysAdmins fault they can't get to a site that's down.
Despite all of this I still have a social life, a wife and kids. Heh.
--Kevin
1987 - VAXserver 3100m30 still running a production webserver and mail. NetBSD 1.6.1
I have lots of old Sun stuff too ranging from IPX's to an Ultra 1
I also have a 1981 vintage Osborne I portable which runs CP/M 2.2.
My wife has a Mac SE she stills uses.
I have a BSD machine here that's been up 322 days. I've NEVER had any issues. You either: A.) Have drive issues. B.) Have other misconfiguration or hardware issues. C.) Need to buy a good book. Windows is FAR less stable than BSD and yes, I am Microsoft certified. BSD is on the top of the netcraft uptime charts. The only advantage Windows has over BSD is DirectX and a wide availability of games. I run FreeBSD on several PC's and NetBSD on sparc, sparc64 and VAX machines. I don't think it was an OS problem, it was the guy behind the keyboard that thought the MCSE cert would get him an easy ride.
BSD was never written for children. RTFM.