You raise very good points. But Jane Fonda recorded radio broadcasts specifically directed at undermining the morale of our airmen. She allowed herself to be photographed at a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft site. The 'aid and comfort' that she gave them was propaganda.
Opposing a war by voicing your opposition in the public debate is not giving them 'aid and comfort' (regardless of what Bush says). Protesting the war is not giving them 'aid and comfort'.
Your concerns are valid, but part of the genius of the American Constitution is it's simplicity. It doesn't need to be re-written in legalese to provide the protections that you are speaking about. Everything that you've covered is protected by the 1st Amendment.
The benefit of reading this: $150,000 for a radio jammer? Go find me an Extra class licensed HAM operator and he can outfit a battalion for that price, including R&D. $1.1 BILLION spent on that one item?
Well, specific concerns about our procurement practices can be addressed without leaking information about the location of our forces and what types of equipment each unit has.
I am concerned about our procurement practices because in many areas it seems like the Government is being ripped off. If it actually is, then the companies involved should be dealt with in the harshest manner possible -- ripping off your own countrymen to make a buck during wartime is indefensible.
As for the specific case of a $150,000 radio jammer.... who knows? In my youth I worked for a small company that made parts for a bigger company that made parts for an even bigger company that sold stuff to DoD. The exact same part made for anybody else would have cost half as much but we had to raise the cost to cover all the time we spent working on the damn paperwork for the things. Anytime you start talking about a Governmental contract, especially a contract for DoD you can count on paperwork, paperwork and more paperwork.
Beyond that, there's also the cost to produce things to the ruggizied mil-specs. Go look at the prices of a mil-spec laptop. I've seen them starting at $6,000 and all the way up to $10,000. Seems excessive for a laptop doesn't it? If you think you can produce a cheaper laptop that can be used on horseback in the middle of a sand storm after having spilled stuff on it, be my guest. If you can actually pull it off you can probably make a ton of money selling the things to DoD..... just make sure you hire a few people to take care of all the paperwork that you'll be filling out.
Why? How can the content of that movie possibly justify the idea of rape as punishment?
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ! Stop being such a politically correct left-wing flower child and reading shit into my post that wasn't there.
It's a quote from Office Space. A quote meant to differentiate between white collar Federal Prison (aka: Country Club prison) and real prison. The movie doesn't advocate rape. I wasn't advocating rape. You have completely glossed over/missed the point of my post in favor of picking on a specific line that happens to be quite popular on/.
I don't condone prison rape. I think Jane Fonda should have been convicted of treason and sent to a non-country club Federal prison. Does saying it like that meet with your approval?
The Iraqi resistance's manpower and firepower are utterly dwarfed by that of their enemy, which happens to be a "coalition" of the World's current superpowers. Whining about this particular leak is like booing Robin Hood's valiant efforts to even the financial playing field.
One "higher purpose served" is that those men and women fighting to keep their country under their own control now have a better idea of what they're facing.
I'm sorry, but you have completely missed the point.
For starters, I was asking what the motivation was for the leaker himself.
Beyond that, there is no "Iraqi resistance" as conventionally imagined. Saying as such implies that the whole Iraq War boils down to our occupational forces being attacked by an armed guerrilla movement.
Most of the armed groups of "resistance fighters" are too busy killing each other or members of the other sect to focus on attacking American troops. Some of them have even allied with us when they it's in their own interest to do so.
There is no Iraqi nationalism anymore. It's all about which sect (Sunni or Shiite) or tribe you belong to. Half of them would glad to have us there if we were busy destroying their enemies. Many Iraqis are afraid to see us leave because they suspect that the entire country will explode into open warfare once we are gone.
I'm not advocating staying there or justifying why we went in. But to pretend that this is some noble resistance against an occupying force is to completely ignore the facts on the ground. This is a civil war. One that we should get the hell out of.
First of all, if talking about winning, in context of a war, that usually presupposes an enemy that can be objectively defeated
I agree. And by that definition I don't think the war in Iraq can be won. I've said as much in other posts.
not an expression like terrorism or some such
Actually, terrorism could be defeated, but not by force of arms. The way you defeat (Islamic) terrorism is by winning the hearts and minds of the Muslim World and addressing their legitimate gripes.
This is not what happens in the media, is it? You don't treat iraqi civilian lives with the same respect and importance as you treat the lives of the american soldiers. What does this tell me?
Uhh, you see a hidden agenda in this? It tells me that people care more about local events that matter to them (the death of a solider from small town USA matters to the people in that town) then events that happen to people they don't know half a world away.
You can't blame the media for focusing so much energy to the hardships our troops face. You can blame them when they spend hours or days covering Britney Spears' latest trip to rehab when they could be covering the violence in Iraq.
his tells me that a lot of the americans and especially the media are at least xenophobic if not racist in this matter
I'm sorry, but a lot of us are starting to get leery of racism being thrown around. This is offtopic to the discussion about Iraq, but it's reaching the point now where you can't even point out the differences between races without being called a racist. I'm automatically skeptical of anybody that needs to use racism to back up an argument.
And xenophobic? What is your basis for that? That our media isn't paying attention to what's going on in Iraq?
I feel that the american public condascendingly looks down on the iraqis as some sort of "tribal natives", people who are in need of assistance from the superior americans
Again, what's your basis for this? The American people were talked into the Iraq War because they thought Saddam was a threat. We weren't talked into the war because of some "White Man's Burden". What the hell are you basing these assumptions on?
I was unable to discern from the summary any mention of human rights abuses in the document in question. Now, I did not read the document, but I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that it's a very, very dry 238 pages, and if there was anything relating to human rights abuses, it would have made its way into the summary.
Yeah, it's a very dry document. But it's relevant. The section on behavior management caught my eye, though I haven't had the time to read through it.
Intentionally divulging classified material is a crime, like it or not. This information can be used by our opponents, for example, to prepare them for what they will encounter if captured, thus decreasing our effectiveness in extracting useful intelligence from them.
Perhaps you should consider whether or not you agree with the methods that we use in "extracting useful intelligence". I'm sorry, but this is one of the few things that I agree with John McCain on. I'm completely opposed to torture. I don't care how you rationalize it, what kind of "ticking bomb" scenarios you use, etc, etc.
There are effective interrogation techniques that don't involve waterboarding, stress positions, extreme heat or cold, etc, etc. There are ways to take these people out of circulation that don't involve indefinite detention without trial or consul and military tribunals of questionable legality.
Every person that we torture creates dozen or hundreds of new recruits for our enemies. Every single time we engage in practices designed to offend their cultural morals (using dogs for example) we make Islamic extremism that much more attractive to the young people of the Muslim World. We have done far more damage to ourselves, our traditions and our institutions then Bin Ladin ever could have. And it needs to stop.
I'm sure that foreign intelligence services love Wikileaks. It used to be, back in the day, they had to actually exert some effort to get Americans to commit treason.
Exactly what enemy of the United States is provided with "aid or comfort" as a result of this document being leaked?
He's a traitor, but I'd disagree that he was worse then Fonda. He went over to Afghanistan and joined the Taliban before 9/11. And lest we forget, the US Government was actually working with the Taliban on a few issues (poppy control) before 9/11, while rightfully condemning them on others (the destruction of the Buddhist statues and their treatment of women).
Fonda was an stupid moron whose attempts to remind the American nation that the "gooks" were actually native citizens of the country they were blowing the shit out of and human beings were incredibly naive and exploited
Naive and exploited might explain away the photographs at the anti-aircraft site (though, why exactly did she go to the site to begin with?) but it doesn't explain away her radio broadcasts directed at US Airmen. I'm sorry, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I consider her a traitor. Not in the same league as someother people I can think of, but a traitor nonetheless.
If you've got the time and money though, and don't end up doing anything stupid, then reminding the more hawkish elements in the US Government that Iran is a sovereign nation that (unlike our best pals the Saudis) haven't been caught with loads of their citizens acting as insurgents in Iraq might actually not be that bad an idea.
I applaud the peace movement. It takes guts to oppose war, especially when the other side is going to call you a traitor for doing so and accuse you of "helping the terrorists" (since when did engaging in the Democratic process and having debates help the enemy?) I can't condone actually aiding the enemy though.
If Sean Penn or any of the other modern-day Hollywood types went to Iraq and were photographed next to an IED, I'd be saying the same thing about them. That's a line that you don't cross. As a random example I stopped listening to Cindy Sheehan when I saw her standing next to Hugo Chavez. What productive purpose did that serve?
No, for the record, I wasn't suggesting that she deserved to be raped. But she did deserve to be punished. If Sean Penn went to Iraq and allowed himself to be photographed next to an IED I'd say the same thing about him.
Sorry, I disagree about her. You can disagree with your Government's policy without going out of your way to aid the enemy. In fact, let's consider the definition of treason from the US Constitution: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort
Posing for propaganda pictures at a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft site? How can anybody defend that? I disagree with the Iraq war and have encouraged my Congressman to force the issue by cutting funding. Should my next move be to travel to the Middle East and videotape some propaganda for the enemy?
the Wiretap leaker
The wiretap leaker is a hero. William Mark Felt (aka: Deep Throat) is a hero. Jane Fonda was a fucking treasonous cunt that deserved to be sent to Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for what she did. You insult the real patriots and heroes by lumping her in with them.
The most accurate approximation, done by the Iraq Body Count project, is only around 80,000.
Thanks for proving Stalin's point. One death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic. I love how you used the word "only" next to eighty thousand deaths.
so obviously liberal math skills are as poor as liberal logic skills.
Is it impossible for conservatives to engage in a debate about anything without insulting people that disagree with them? I had some choice words in my other reply but I edited them out in the interest of a productive debate.
Wanting my side to win is racism?
Playing the race card was a stupid move on his part. It's not racism to want our side to win. It's not racism to fail to point out civilian deaths on the other side. At worst it's short-sided.
I disagree with the war but if you could present me with an actual plan to win it I'd be behind you 100%. Unfortunately I don't see a plan to win it and staying there for the sake of not admitting defeat is costing us billions in treasure and the lives of our troops. Regardless of why we invaded, regardless of what mistakes were made and what was done right, it's basically a civil war now. Why the hell are we still involved? Would we have tolerated somebody else intervening during our own Civil War?
It's not racism to not be upset that people that want to kill as many Americans as possible are taking dirt naps. Sounds to me that the group that wants to kill Americans have race issues, not the Americans that want to fight back.
There you go again, hurling insults and making unfounded accusations. Way to elevate the debate. Are you a Congressman or Senator by any chance?
Sorry, this will sound cold, but so what? Last time I checked we had a military to protect the United States "against all enemies, foreign and domestic", not to intervene in the internal affairs of other states. And if our intention was that noble, then why haven't we intervened in any of the African genocides?
Females are attending School
That would make a better point in an argument about Afghanistan and not Iraq as it's my understanding that women were treated fairly well (by the standards of the Arab world) in Iraq. In any case, why the hell is it up to us to impose our moral viewpoint on other cultures?
The Rape Rooms Are Shut Down
And exactly how were the rape rooms a threat to our national security?
Saddam isn't paying $25,000 to families of Palestinian Suicide Bombers
Sounds like that's a problem for the Israelis. How are Palestinian suicide bombers a threat to the United States, again?
Uday and Qusay Hussien are dead
And they were a threat to the United States, why?
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - Captured
Sorry, but this is where I lose my cool. STOP FUCKING TRYING TO LINK IRAQ TO 9/11 AND al-Qaeda. He was captured in Pakistan. What the fuck does that have to do with the Iraq war?
Chemical Ali - Captured
And he did what to the United States, exactly?
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi: DEAD.
And he was a threat to us (prior to the invasion), how exactly?
I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this theory of an interventionist foreign policy. Iraq posed zero threat to the United States. You can't even use the argument that everybody thought he had WMDs, because he allowed the inspectors back in prior to the war and they would have eventually discovered that he didn't. There was no reason for us not to give them time to do their work unless we already decided to invade before Saddam agreed to allow them back in.
Beyond that, ever stop to think about what we could have done with the troops in Iraq if we had deployed them to Afghanistan? Perhaps we could have used our own forces during Tora Bora instead of outsourcing the job to the local strongmen? Perhaps our own forces would have managed to capture Bin Ladin instead of letting him slip away?
Funny how the defenders of the Iraq war are so quick to forget about Bush's "dead or alive" promise. I want the motherfucker that killed three thousand American civilians in cold blood. I could have given two shits about Saddam.
a liberal talking point.
Look, another person throwing the word "liberal" out there, as if it should be some sort of insult. *sigh*
Agreed. The person who leaked this document is a traitor in the mold of Hanoi Jane Fonda, John Walker Lindh, and whoever leaked the classified doucuments on the Wiretap program to the NY Times.
Actually, when I went to Wikileaks, I found the entire order of battle and equipment register for all of our forces in Iraq. What exactly was the motivation for leaking that and what higher purpose was served?
There's a moral difference between releasing a document related to human rights (which are obviously being abused at Gitmo) and releasing a document that serves no useful purpose other then giving somebody a complete picture of our forces in Iraq. Leave it to the right-wing trolls on/. to ignore the difference. I applaud them for releasing this document but question the motivation behind the other one.
As I dislike arm race of Cold war, we must admit that US started it, because they hated Commies so much
You got a +5, insightful for this rubbish? WTF are the mods smoking and can I have some?
The US started the cold war? That's funny. I always thought Stalin started it when he refused to honor the agreements he made at Yalta and Tehran and effectively annexed Eastern Europe. Go read about the Berlin blockade. Or the Soviet pause during the Warsaw Uprising. In fact, go ask somebody from Poland (or Eastern Europe as a whole) who they think started the Cold War. Or maybe somebody from South Korea, because it was Stalin that gave Kim Il Sung the green-light for the invasion of the South.
Both sides share measure of blame for the distrust that followed WW2. This distrust set the stage for the Cold War. But you can't deny the fact that if Stalin had allowed the people of Eastern Europe to pick their own destiny (as he promised at Yalta and the other conferences) the Cold War probably doesn't happen.
Don't underestimate Russian technology or engineering. It's easy to make light of it (vacuum tubes in their fighters, Chernobyl, In Soviet Russia.... jokes, etc, etc) but in so doing you miss some of their real accomplishments.
Russian rocket/missile technology is every bit as advanced (in some cases more so) as Western technology. There is no Western version of this for example. Their ICBM technology was sufficiently advanced to scare the hell out of NATO and encourage arms-reduction treaties and talks.
And while Russian engineering practices may leave a little bit to be desired, it was those same engineering practices that produced this and defeated Nazi Germany.
have full confidence in a stable server to have a 10 year uptime with no trouble.. but that's in a climate-controlled server farm filled with electro-static shielding and clean power
A tid bit overly protective/worried, aren't you? Random musing: At my old job we were trying to install a new router for a local health care provider. We couldn't find their old one so we eventually wound up tracing the wires back. We discovered an old Pentium 133, running Slackware Linux. It was located in a sealed off janitor's closet that everybody had forgotten about. All of the fans had died a long time ago. It was covered in dirt and dust. But, by god, it was still running;)
So, yeah, the clean room environment is ideal. But it's hardly a requirement. I've never been lucky enough to have a job with an actual server room. Servers have always still worked.
I get fidgety when the chip is taking 4 Gs every few seconds off road, in 95 degree temperatures, with dirt and pebbles flying up into the underside of the car, and when the electrical system is powered by a gasoline engine
You realize we've sent chips into space where the environment is far harsher (ionizing radiation, extreme temperatures, no easy way to dissipate heat, etc) then under the hood of your car and they've worked just fine.
I'd be leery of a car that was completely controlled by microprocessors/fly-by-wire, but even in the most advanced car you are still going to have manual control over your brakes and steering, even if everything else fails. That should be enough to bring the vehicle to a stop without killing yourself or anybody else.
So no one is allowed to call home to the family when on the job in a government position?
Actually, he said "don't use official systems". So by all means, call your family from your personal cell phone while at work. Calling them from the office phone would be "using official systems".
People respect the MBA as opposed to Engineers and Scientists? Dear god I'm behind the times.
Laugh, but it's true to an extent. Perhaps people don't respect them (personally, I consider it the PHB degree), but the way our economy has changed they are certainly more valued then the engineer or scientist.
What's wrong with the picture when a management degree makes you somehow more valuable to society then an engineering one? MBAs didn't take us to the moon. MBAs didn't invent fiber optics. But none of that matters today. The only thing that matters today is profit. Hell, even the MBAs aren't the same as they used to be -- there was a time when businesses actually planned for the long term. Now it's all about next quarters results.
What Stalin did was to hold Russia together. If he was soft Russia would have been wiped by the Nazi Germany
Oh, give me a fucking break! Do you have ANY knowledge whatsoever about that of which you speak?
Stalin bears zero credit for "holding Russia together" during the Great Patriotic War (WW2). Stalin's paranoid purges of the Red Army prior to the war weakened his forces to the point that Finland was able to hold them off. Stalin's attempts at military "leadership" (pushing offenses against the advice of Zhukov) all ended in disaster. Stalin's sole saving grace over Hitler is that he eventually realized this and allowed his military men to conduct the war.
Why don't you go to Russia today and try to sell people on the idea that Stalin was the savior of Russia. Let me know how that works out for you.
If he was so psychotic, why was he helped by the USA then?
Because he was slightly better then Hitler and the USA couldn't allow the Soviet Union to be conquered by Germany?
And funding both defense systems is exactly what the federal government should be doing. Since it's constitutional mandate is to protect the nation. Not literacy and environmental programs.
Hmm, shortsighted AC. Funding education (i.e: literacy) is protecting the nation. Disagree? Consider: It worked during the Cold War by giving us a critical edge in technology.
Dumping money into defense systems while allowing your foe to leap beyond you in sciences and technology won't win you that game of Civ2 either....
No problem. Found a couple of literacy and environmental programs we haven't shut down yet.
Actually, laugh, but the Cold War resulted in the United States investing more money into educational programs, for fear of falling behind the Soviets in technology.
Go back and look at the Governmental response in the late 50s/early 60s when the fear actually had some basis in reality (the days of Sputnik). We invested money into education, with a focus on math, science and engineering. Those were the days when the engineer and scientist were actually respected more then the MBA and the PHB was the exception and not the rule.
I read all of these stories about the US falling behind in technology and wonder just what sort of shock it will take to make Americans/the Government pay attention to this. Perhaps that shock will be our Navy (with 200 years of tradition and the best technology available) being caught off guard by a brown-water Navy from a country with no nautical experience and outdated technology.
Yes they are! I had a lot of respect for my Assemblywoman (Donna Lupardo), as I've had a lot of correspondence with her and she's actually somewhat of a realist and pro-reform.
Hmm, proof read it four times and still messed up the link for Donna Lupardo;)
Our state legislature is about as messed up as you can get
Yes they are! I had a lot of respect for my Assemblywoman (Donna Lupardo), as I've had a lot of correspondence with her and she's actually somewhat of a realist and pro-reform.
My State Senator (Tom Libous) on the other hand..... his job performance could best be summed up as "Bring home the pork and never miss a photo op". And people around here love him! He personifies the stereotypical career politician to a tee -- during the 2006 campaign him and his opponent were asked a question along the lines of "What have you done for the district?". His opponent answered with a detailed list of accomplishments and plans.... Tom "answered" with "I'm working hard for this district. And I'm going to keep working hard."
*sigh*, I don't see how you fix Albany without getting rid of the power held by the Speaker and Majority Leader. And term limits. I used to be on the fence about them because I didn't want to lose people like Lupardo, but I think the pros would outweigh the cons.
But our county government is top notch
Yeah you really don't live in Broome;) I moved here five years ago from Chenango County. My impression of local politics is that the Republicans basically picked the local officeholders during the primary and there was very much a "good ole boy's club" on the county and village level around here. Friends of the elected officials that would "win" no-bid contracts, etc, etc. Recently the Democrats have won local offices (Mayor of Binghamton, County Executive, County Legislature, village of Endicott) and this seems to be changing, but the old crowd is now hurling insults, throwing mud, etc, etc.
Local politics around here are nasty. I actually had a fellow political junkie semi-seriously suggest that I should run for Village Trustee. There's zero chance of me doing that because I'm not going to have my name dragged through the mud for a part-time position where I'm not going to be able to affect any real change. A friend of mine put it best: The people are so nasty because the stakes are so small. Hell, go read the local rag and tell me you'd want to be an elected official in Broome County....:(
ongov.net is in my opinion a great example of what good government should be
Broome County isn't nearly that advanced;) There's some good information but a ten year old could do better webpage design. The index isn't as bad as it used to be, but a lot of the departments haven't updated them in years.
If a candidate is running as a Democrat or Republican and a 3rd party, If I'm going to vote for them, it'll be on the 3rd party row.
Other then our Sheriff, I haven't been able to vote for a Republican since I lived in Chenango County and could vote for Boehlert before he retired. When all the stuff about Hevesi came out I thought I was going to vote for the Republican candidate for comptroller. But his entire platform seemed to be "I'm not Hevesi!". His whole campaign was just mudslinging with no solid ideas. In the end I wound up voting for the Green Party candidate because I liked her ideas about socially responsible investing.
So yeah, I usually vote the Working Families line, then look at the races without a WFP endorsement and vote on the Democratic/Republican line for them. Only time I voted against the WFP was the aforementioned Comptroller race. Wish they had endorsed Ms. Willebrand, but they probably put Hevesi
I'm independent("I do not wish to enroll in a party" on the registration form), not Independence. I do understand the difference (as well as the prudence in asking the question.
Yeah, I had to ask, because not everybody understands the difference. The Independence Party is an actual political party in New York State. To actually register without being in ANY party you need to hit the "I do not wish to enroll in a party" box on the form.
Basically, when I registered I did so with the feeling that I didn't want to be beholden to any group, like my vote was somehow more "mine". Of course, logically, I know what I do with my vote is my business alone regardless of party affiliation, and as I've mellowed a bit on that point as I've gotten older (just turned 31), I'll probably go ahead and enroll as a Democrat to be a more useful cog in the machine.
I understand that. When I registered to vote at 18 I did the same thing. But I changed to Democrat shortly thereafter, because I do agree with a lot of their views and it enables me to vote in the primary elections. I almost changed my enrollment to the Working Families Party, but in the end I decided not to.
Another NYS Election Law tidbit: If there are third-parties that you care about (Conservative Party, Working Families Party, Independence Party, etc, etc) vote on their ballot line in the Gubernatorial Election. Any party that can get 50,000 votes for Governor is automatically granted ballot access for the next four years. New York State is one of the few that allows Electoral Fusion. I didn't even realize this was something unique until recently. Growing up in New York it was standard practice to see people running on multiple party lines.
I've looked at my county website, apparently, Election Inspectors (in my county at least) are paid $100 for primary's and $150 for a general election. Not huge amounts of cash obviously, but enough to make taking time off work that much easier to cope with (I had always thought this was a purely volunteer job)
Yeah, Broome County pays $10/hr for inspectors and $11/hr for the chairperson. It's a 10 hour day for primary's (11:30AM - 9:30PM) and 16 hours (5:30AM - 9:30PM) for general elections. What county are you in, if you don't mind my asking? Our webpage isn't nearly that advanced;)
Slashdot Mirror
You raise very good points. But Jane Fonda recorded radio broadcasts specifically directed at undermining the morale of our airmen. She allowed herself to be photographed at a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft site. The 'aid and comfort' that she gave them was propaganda.
Opposing a war by voicing your opposition in the public debate is not giving them 'aid and comfort' (regardless of what Bush says). Protesting the war is not giving them 'aid and comfort'.
Your concerns are valid, but part of the genius of the American Constitution is it's simplicity. It doesn't need to be re-written in legalese to provide the protections that you are speaking about. Everything that you've covered is protected by the 1st Amendment.
Well, specific concerns about our procurement practices can be addressed without leaking information about the location of our forces and what types of equipment each unit has.
I am concerned about our procurement practices because in many areas it seems like the Government is being ripped off. If it actually is, then the companies involved should be dealt with in the harshest manner possible -- ripping off your own countrymen to make a buck during wartime is indefensible.
As for the specific case of a $150,000 radio jammer.... who knows? In my youth I worked for a small company that made parts for a bigger company that made parts for an even bigger company that sold stuff to DoD. The exact same part made for anybody else would have cost half as much but we had to raise the cost to cover all the time we spent working on the damn paperwork for the things. Anytime you start talking about a Governmental contract, especially a contract for DoD you can count on paperwork, paperwork and more paperwork.
Beyond that, there's also the cost to produce things to the ruggizied mil-specs. Go look at the prices of a mil-spec laptop. I've seen them starting at $6,000 and all the way up to $10,000. Seems excessive for a laptop doesn't it? If you think you can produce a cheaper laptop that can be used on horseback in the middle of a sand storm after having spilled stuff on it, be my guest. If you can actually pull it off you can probably make a ton of money selling the things to DoD..... just make sure you hire a few people to take care of all the paperwork that you'll be filling out.
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ! Stop being such a politically correct left-wing flower child and reading shit into my post that wasn't there.
It's a quote from Office Space. A quote meant to differentiate between white collar Federal Prison (aka: Country Club prison) and real prison. The movie doesn't advocate rape. I wasn't advocating rape. You have completely glossed over/missed the point of my post in favor of picking on a specific line that happens to be quite popular on /.
I don't condone prison rape. I think Jane Fonda should have been convicted of treason and sent to a non-country club Federal prison. Does saying it like that meet with your approval?
I'm sorry, but you have completely missed the point.
For starters, I was asking what the motivation was for the leaker himself.
Beyond that, there is no "Iraqi resistance" as conventionally imagined. Saying as such implies that the whole Iraq War boils down to our occupational forces being attacked by an armed guerrilla movement.
Most of the armed groups of "resistance fighters" are too busy killing each other or members of the other sect to focus on attacking American troops. Some of them have even allied with us when they it's in their own interest to do so.
There is no Iraqi nationalism anymore. It's all about which sect (Sunni or Shiite) or tribe you belong to. Half of them would glad to have us there if we were busy destroying their enemies. Many Iraqis are afraid to see us leave because they suspect that the entire country will explode into open warfare once we are gone.
I'm not advocating staying there or justifying why we went in. But to pretend that this is some noble resistance against an occupying force is to completely ignore the facts on the ground. This is a civil war. One that we should get the hell out of.
I agree. And by that definition I don't think the war in Iraq can be won. I've said as much in other posts.
not an expression like terrorism or some suchActually, terrorism could be defeated, but not by force of arms. The way you defeat (Islamic) terrorism is by winning the hearts and minds of the Muslim World and addressing their legitimate gripes.
This is not what happens in the media, is it? You don't treat iraqi civilian lives with the same respect and importance as you treat the lives of the american soldiers. What does this tell me?Uhh, you see a hidden agenda in this? It tells me that people care more about local events that matter to them (the death of a solider from small town USA matters to the people in that town) then events that happen to people they don't know half a world away.
You can't blame the media for focusing so much energy to the hardships our troops face. You can blame them when they spend hours or days covering Britney Spears' latest trip to rehab when they could be covering the violence in Iraq.
his tells me that a lot of the americans and especially the media are at least xenophobic if not racist in this matterI'm sorry, but a lot of us are starting to get leery of racism being thrown around. This is offtopic to the discussion about Iraq, but it's reaching the point now where you can't even point out the differences between races without being called a racist. I'm automatically skeptical of anybody that needs to use racism to back up an argument.
And xenophobic? What is your basis for that? That our media isn't paying attention to what's going on in Iraq?
I feel that the american public condascendingly looks down on the iraqis as some sort of "tribal natives", people who are in need of assistance from the superior americansAgain, what's your basis for this? The American people were talked into the Iraq War because they thought Saddam was a threat. We weren't talked into the war because of some "White Man's Burden". What the hell are you basing these assumptions on?
Yeah, it's a very dry document. But it's relevant. The section on behavior management caught my eye, though I haven't had the time to read through it.
Intentionally divulging classified material is a crime, like it or not. This information can be used by our opponents, for example, to prepare them for what they will encounter if captured, thus decreasing our effectiveness in extracting useful intelligence from them.Perhaps you should consider whether or not you agree with the methods that we use in "extracting useful intelligence". I'm sorry, but this is one of the few things that I agree with John McCain on. I'm completely opposed to torture. I don't care how you rationalize it, what kind of "ticking bomb" scenarios you use, etc, etc.
There are effective interrogation techniques that don't involve waterboarding, stress positions, extreme heat or cold, etc, etc. There are ways to take these people out of circulation that don't involve indefinite detention without trial or consul and military tribunals of questionable legality.
Every person that we torture creates dozen or hundreds of new recruits for our enemies. Every single time we engage in practices designed to offend their cultural morals (using dogs for example) we make Islamic extremism that much more attractive to the young people of the Muslim World. We have done far more damage to ourselves, our traditions and our institutions then Bin Ladin ever could have. And it needs to stop.
I'm sure that foreign intelligence services love Wikileaks. It used to be, back in the day, they had to actually exert some effort to get Americans to commit treason.Exactly what enemy of the United States is provided with "aid or comfort" as a result of this document being leaked?
He's a traitor, but I'd disagree that he was worse then Fonda. He went over to Afghanistan and joined the Taliban before 9/11. And lest we forget, the US Government was actually working with the Taliban on a few issues (poppy control) before 9/11, while rightfully condemning them on others (the destruction of the Buddhist statues and their treatment of women).
Fonda was an stupid moron whose attempts to remind the American nation that the "gooks" were actually native citizens of the country they were blowing the shit out of and human beings were incredibly naive and exploitedNaive and exploited might explain away the photographs at the anti-aircraft site (though, why exactly did she go to the site to begin with?) but it doesn't explain away her radio broadcasts directed at US Airmen. I'm sorry, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I consider her a traitor. Not in the same league as some other people I can think of, but a traitor nonetheless.
If you've got the time and money though, and don't end up doing anything stupid, then reminding the more hawkish elements in the US Government that Iran is a sovereign nation that (unlike our best pals the Saudis) haven't been caught with loads of their citizens acting as insurgents in Iraq might actually not be that bad an idea.I applaud the peace movement. It takes guts to oppose war, especially when the other side is going to call you a traitor for doing so and accuse you of "helping the terrorists" (since when did engaging in the Democratic process and having debates help the enemy?) I can't condone actually aiding the enemy though.
If Sean Penn or any of the other modern-day Hollywood types went to Iraq and were photographed next to an IED, I'd be saying the same thing about them. That's a line that you don't cross. As a random example I stopped listening to Cindy Sheehan when I saw her standing next to Hugo Chavez. What productive purpose did that serve?
Maybe you should watch a movie?
No, for the record, I wasn't suggesting that she deserved to be raped. But she did deserve to be punished. If Sean Penn went to Iraq and allowed himself to be photographed next to an IED I'd say the same thing about him.
Sorry, I disagree about her. You can disagree with your Government's policy without going out of your way to aid the enemy. In fact, let's consider the definition of treason from the US Constitution: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort
Posing for propaganda pictures at a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft site? How can anybody defend that? I disagree with the Iraq war and have encouraged my Congressman to force the issue by cutting funding. Should my next move be to travel to the Middle East and videotape some propaganda for the enemy?
the Wiretap leakerThe wiretap leaker is a hero. William Mark Felt (aka: Deep Throat) is a hero. Jane Fonda was a fucking treasonous cunt that deserved to be sent to Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for what she did. You insult the real patriots and heroes by lumping her in with them.
Thanks for proving Stalin's point. One death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic. I love how you used the word "only" next to eighty thousand deaths.
so obviously liberal math skills are as poor as liberal logic skills.Is it impossible for conservatives to engage in a debate about anything without insulting people that disagree with them? I had some choice words in my other reply but I edited them out in the interest of a productive debate.
Wanting my side to win is racism?Playing the race card was a stupid move on his part. It's not racism to want our side to win. It's not racism to fail to point out civilian deaths on the other side. At worst it's short-sided.
I disagree with the war but if you could present me with an actual plan to win it I'd be behind you 100%. Unfortunately I don't see a plan to win it and staying there for the sake of not admitting defeat is costing us billions in treasure and the lives of our troops. Regardless of why we invaded, regardless of what mistakes were made and what was done right, it's basically a civil war now. Why the hell are we still involved? Would we have tolerated somebody else intervening during our own Civil War?
It's not racism to not be upset that people that want to kill as many Americans as possible are taking dirt naps. Sounds to me that the group that wants to kill Americans have race issues, not the Americans that want to fight back.There you go again, hurling insults and making unfounded accusations. Way to elevate the debate. Are you a Congressman or Senator by any chance?
Sorry, this will sound cold, but so what? Last time I checked we had a military to protect the United States "against all enemies, foreign and domestic", not to intervene in the internal affairs of other states. And if our intention was that noble, then why haven't we intervened in any of the African genocides?
Females are attending SchoolThat would make a better point in an argument about Afghanistan and not Iraq as it's my understanding that women were treated fairly well (by the standards of the Arab world) in Iraq. In any case, why the hell is it up to us to impose our moral viewpoint on other cultures?
The Rape Rooms Are Shut DownAnd exactly how were the rape rooms a threat to our national security?
Saddam isn't paying $25,000 to families of Palestinian Suicide BombersSounds like that's a problem for the Israelis. How are Palestinian suicide bombers a threat to the United States, again?
Uday and Qusay Hussien are deadAnd they were a threat to the United States, why?
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - CapturedSorry, but this is where I lose my cool. STOP FUCKING TRYING TO LINK IRAQ TO 9/11 AND al-Qaeda. He was captured in Pakistan. What the fuck does that have to do with the Iraq war?
Chemical Ali - CapturedAnd he did what to the United States, exactly?
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi: DEAD.And he was a threat to us (prior to the invasion), how exactly?
I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this theory of an interventionist foreign policy. Iraq posed zero threat to the United States. You can't even use the argument that everybody thought he had WMDs, because he allowed the inspectors back in prior to the war and they would have eventually discovered that he didn't. There was no reason for us not to give them time to do their work unless we already decided to invade before Saddam agreed to allow them back in.
Beyond that, ever stop to think about what we could have done with the troops in Iraq if we had deployed them to Afghanistan? Perhaps we could have used our own forces during Tora Bora instead of outsourcing the job to the local strongmen? Perhaps our own forces would have managed to capture Bin Ladin instead of letting him slip away?
Funny how the defenders of the Iraq war are so quick to forget about Bush's "dead or alive" promise. I want the motherfucker that killed three thousand American civilians in cold blood. I could have given two shits about Saddam.
a liberal talking point.Look, another person throwing the word "liberal" out there, as if it should be some sort of insult. *sigh*
From the document itself:
It is the responsibility of all personnel to protect and safeguard the contents of this SOP and ensure appropriate distribution thereof.Hmm.... ooops ;)
Actually, when I went to Wikileaks, I found the entire order of battle and equipment register for all of our forces in Iraq. What exactly was the motivation for leaking that and what higher purpose was served?
There's a moral difference between releasing a document related to human rights (which are obviously being abused at Gitmo) and releasing a document that serves no useful purpose other then giving somebody a complete picture of our forces in Iraq. Leave it to the right-wing trolls on /. to ignore the difference. I applaud them for releasing this document but question the motivation behind the other one.
You got a +5, insightful for this rubbish? WTF are the mods smoking and can I have some?
The US started the cold war? That's funny. I always thought Stalin started it when he refused to honor the agreements he made at Yalta and Tehran and effectively annexed Eastern Europe. Go read about the Berlin blockade. Or the Soviet pause during the Warsaw Uprising. In fact, go ask somebody from Poland (or Eastern Europe as a whole) who they think started the Cold War. Or maybe somebody from South Korea, because it was Stalin that gave Kim Il Sung the green-light for the invasion of the South.
Both sides share measure of blame for the distrust that followed WW2. This distrust set the stage for the Cold War. But you can't deny the fact that if Stalin had allowed the people of Eastern Europe to pick their own destiny (as he promised at Yalta and the other conferences) the Cold War probably doesn't happen.
Uhh, yeah, you realize that we did the same thing, right?
Don't underestimate Russian technology or engineering. It's easy to make light of it (vacuum tubes in their fighters, Chernobyl, In Soviet Russia.... jokes, etc, etc) but in so doing you miss some of their real accomplishments.
Russian rocket/missile technology is every bit as advanced (in some cases more so) as Western technology. There is no Western version of this for example. Their ICBM technology was sufficiently advanced to scare the hell out of NATO and encourage arms-reduction treaties and talks.
And while Russian engineering practices may leave a little bit to be desired, it was those same engineering practices that produced this and defeated Nazi Germany.
People underestimate Russia at their own peril.
Last time I checked, the labor law of almost every state provides for these things called "breaks".
A tid bit overly protective/worried, aren't you? Random musing: At my old job we were trying to install a new router for a local health care provider. We couldn't find their old one so we eventually wound up tracing the wires back. We discovered an old Pentium 133, running Slackware Linux. It was located in a sealed off janitor's closet that everybody had forgotten about. All of the fans had died a long time ago. It was covered in dirt and dust. But, by god, it was still running ;)
So, yeah, the clean room environment is ideal. But it's hardly a requirement. I've never been lucky enough to have a job with an actual server room. Servers have always still worked.
I get fidgety when the chip is taking 4 Gs every few seconds off road, in 95 degree temperatures, with dirt and pebbles flying up into the underside of the car, and when the electrical system is powered by a gasoline engineYou realize we've sent chips into space where the environment is far harsher (ionizing radiation, extreme temperatures, no easy way to dissipate heat, etc) then under the hood of your car and they've worked just fine.
I'd be leery of a car that was completely controlled by microprocessors/fly-by-wire, but even in the most advanced car you are still going to have manual control over your brakes and steering, even if everything else fails. That should be enough to bring the vehicle to a stop without killing yourself or anybody else.
Actually, he said "don't use official systems". So by all means, call your family from your personal cell phone while at work. Calling them from the office phone would be "using official systems".
Laugh, but it's true to an extent. Perhaps people don't respect them (personally, I consider it the PHB degree), but the way our economy has changed they are certainly more valued then the engineer or scientist.
What's wrong with the picture when a management degree makes you somehow more valuable to society then an engineering one? MBAs didn't take us to the moon. MBAs didn't invent fiber optics. But none of that matters today. The only thing that matters today is profit. Hell, even the MBAs aren't the same as they used to be -- there was a time when businesses actually planned for the long term. Now it's all about next quarters results.
Oh, give me a fucking break! Do you have ANY knowledge whatsoever about that of which you speak?
Stalin bears zero credit for "holding Russia together" during the Great Patriotic War (WW2). Stalin's paranoid purges of the Red Army prior to the war weakened his forces to the point that Finland was able to hold them off. Stalin's attempts at military "leadership" (pushing offenses against the advice of Zhukov) all ended in disaster. Stalin's sole saving grace over Hitler is that he eventually realized this and allowed his military men to conduct the war.
Why don't you go to Russia today and try to sell people on the idea that Stalin was the savior of Russia. Let me know how that works out for you.
If he was so psychotic, why was he helped by the USA then?Because he was slightly better then Hitler and the USA couldn't allow the Soviet Union to be conquered by Germany?
Hmm, shortsighted AC. Funding education (i.e: literacy) is protecting the nation. Disagree? Consider: It worked during the Cold War by giving us a critical edge in technology.
Dumping money into defense systems while allowing your foe to leap beyond you in sciences and technology won't win you that game of Civ2 either....
Actually, laugh, but the Cold War resulted in the United States investing more money into educational programs, for fear of falling behind the Soviets in technology.
Go back and look at the Governmental response in the late 50s/early 60s when the fear actually had some basis in reality (the days of Sputnik). We invested money into education, with a focus on math, science and engineering. Those were the days when the engineer and scientist were actually respected more then the MBA and the PHB was the exception and not the rule.
I read all of these stories about the US falling behind in technology and wonder just what sort of shock it will take to make Americans/the Government pay attention to this. Perhaps that shock will be our Navy (with 200 years of tradition and the best technology available) being caught off guard by a brown-water Navy from a country with no nautical experience and outdated technology.
Hmm, proof read it four times and still messed up the link for Donna Lupardo ;)
Our state legislature is about as messed up as you can get
Yes they are! I had a lot of respect for my Assemblywoman (Donna Lupardo), as I've had a lot of correspondence with her and she's actually somewhat of a realist and pro-reform.
My State Senator (Tom Libous) on the other hand..... his job performance could best be summed up as "Bring home the pork and never miss a photo op". And people around here love him! He personifies the stereotypical career politician to a tee -- during the 2006 campaign him and his opponent were asked a question along the lines of "What have you done for the district?". His opponent answered with a detailed list of accomplishments and plans.... Tom "answered" with "I'm working hard for this district. And I'm going to keep working hard."
*sigh*, I don't see how you fix Albany without getting rid of the power held by the Speaker and Majority Leader. And term limits. I used to be on the fence about them because I didn't want to lose people like Lupardo, but I think the pros would outweigh the cons.
But our county government is top notch
Yeah you really don't live in Broome ;) I moved here five years ago from Chenango County. My impression of local politics is that the Republicans basically picked the local officeholders during the primary and there was very much a "good ole boy's club" on the county and village level around here. Friends of the elected officials that would "win" no-bid contracts, etc, etc. Recently the Democrats have won local offices (Mayor of Binghamton, County Executive, County Legislature, village of Endicott) and this seems to be changing, but the old crowd is now hurling insults, throwing mud, etc, etc.
Local politics around here are nasty. I actually had a fellow political junkie semi-seriously suggest that I should run for Village Trustee. There's zero chance of me doing that because I'm not going to have my name dragged through the mud for a part-time position where I'm not going to be able to affect any real change. A friend of mine put it best: The people are so nasty because the stakes are so small. Hell, go read the local rag and tell me you'd want to be an elected official in Broome County.... :(
ongov.net is in my opinion a great example of what good government should be
Broome County isn't nearly that advanced ;) There's some good information but a ten year old could do better webpage design. The index isn't as bad as it used to be, but a lot of the departments haven't updated them in years.
If a candidate is running as a Democrat or Republican and a 3rd party, If I'm going to vote for them, it'll be on the 3rd party row.
Other then our Sheriff, I haven't been able to vote for a Republican since I lived in Chenango County and could vote for Boehlert before he retired. When all the stuff about Hevesi came out I thought I was going to vote for the Republican candidate for comptroller. But his entire platform seemed to be "I'm not Hevesi!". His whole campaign was just mudslinging with no solid ideas. In the end I wound up voting for the Green Party candidate because I liked her ideas about socially responsible investing.
So yeah, I usually vote the Working Families line, then look at the races without a WFP endorsement and vote on the Democratic/Republican line for them. Only time I voted against the WFP was the aforementioned Comptroller race. Wish they had endorsed Ms. Willebrand, but they probably put Hevesi
Yeah, I had to ask, because not everybody understands the difference. The Independence Party is an actual political party in New York State. To actually register without being in ANY party you need to hit the "I do not wish to enroll in a party" box on the form.
Basically, when I registered I did so with the feeling that I didn't want to be beholden to any group, like my vote was somehow more "mine". Of course, logically, I know what I do with my vote is my business alone regardless of party affiliation, and as I've mellowed a bit on that point as I've gotten older (just turned 31), I'll probably go ahead and enroll as a Democrat to be a more useful cog in the machine.I understand that. When I registered to vote at 18 I did the same thing. But I changed to Democrat shortly thereafter, because I do agree with a lot of their views and it enables me to vote in the primary elections. I almost changed my enrollment to the Working Families Party, but in the end I decided not to.
Another NYS Election Law tidbit: If there are third-parties that you care about (Conservative Party, Working Families Party, Independence Party, etc, etc) vote on their ballot line in the Gubernatorial Election. Any party that can get 50,000 votes for Governor is automatically granted ballot access for the next four years. New York State is one of the few that allows Electoral Fusion. I didn't even realize this was something unique until recently. Growing up in New York it was standard practice to see people running on multiple party lines.
I've looked at my county website, apparently, Election Inspectors (in my county at least) are paid $100 for primary's and $150 for a general election. Not huge amounts of cash obviously, but enough to make taking time off work that much easier to cope with (I had always thought this was a purely volunteer job)Yeah, Broome County pays $10/hr for inspectors and $11/hr for the chairperson. It's a 10 hour day for primary's (11:30AM - 9:30PM) and 16 hours (5:30AM - 9:30PM) for general elections. What county are you in, if you don't mind my asking? Our webpage isn't nearly that advanced ;)
I think I'm going to go for it.Cool!