So, what would you call an SE graduate from RIT in the states? I haven't heard anyone call themselves a Software Engineer and their only backing was an MS test. Usually those are "MS-certified," but not a Software Engineer.
That doesn't mean SE if less rigourous. It just means that a building engineer must ensure the wall holds at most X lbs without collapsing, and if it does that, it can do all values less than X.
Software though, you can only prove that X lbs are handled without collapsing, but X - 1 or X + 1 might make that happen. You won't know unless you actually test that value.
Ya, its the governments fault. Both state and federal. Maybe if the state governments would wake up and stop yielding more and more power to the federal, all states wouldn't have a huge money vaccuum that goes for say, paying for a war in Iraq and Afganistan, or other useless project.
What do you mean? I said "a lot of compatibility", not "complete compatibility".
If your claim were true that many or most sites were built for IE though, than it would not matter how much compatibility FF got from Netscape.
I mainly use Opera, and it's not like I keep track of sites that don't work in Firefox. When I've come across such sites I have just moved on.
So then how are you in any position to claim that there are "many sites which only work in IE?" Did you consider that maybe they just aren't working on a tiny browser almost no one cares about?
Unless you are claiming that Firefox is compatible with 100% of all sites out there of course
Not at all. Just that they are rare. I don't care if someone's AOL page doesn't render properly.
To quote someone else in this discussion: "Just because it's obvious that Microsoft hasn't totally eradicated all competition, it doesn't mean that the market hasn't been harmed or that Opera hasn't had an undue burden placed upon it via illegal practices."
Yet you don't complain that FF is killing the pay for browser market, just IE. If IE did decline and FF was the major browser out there, would you be crying foul? If not, you don't really have a point, you just want to hate MS.
I suggest that the uptake of FF is proof that the market is actually doing very well; its just that no one thinks they should have to pay for a web browser.
Well, that's a good point, but if your mom needed to do that to get a program working, there are pretty clear instructions on how to do so. Vista will typically ask you "did this program run correctly?" and if you answer no, will take those steps for you.
Good for you. Not everyone is so lucky. It should be pointed out, however, that Firefox got a lot of compatibility for free because most webmasters knew about Netscape, so they took the new Netscape with Gecko into account when designing sites. Firefox used Gecko too, so it benefitted from Netscape's fame in webmaster circles.
Followed by:
Nope. People can download other browsers, but in reality many sites still require IE because of Microsoft's transgressions.
Really, which is it? Also, please name some major sites that only work in IE. I've yet to find any.
It is. Firefox has 15% globally. Are you really saying that Firefox would have a mere 15% globally if there was actual competition in the browser market?
If there's not competition, than what prompted MS to start developing IE again? We just got version 7, and version 8 is coming... but if FF isn't real competition, really, why would MS waste time with furhter versions of IE? Your argument is not consistent.
So should MS now cry foul because Linux is around? FWIW, Linux wasn't created "for free" because no one could sell an OS. It started as a hobbiest project given away as free.
Then you have to wonder why Netscape went free. It was free in 1996 when I started college. I doubt Win95 has gained enough market share in one year to force Netscapes hand. According to this, Netscape leading and it was still free. I believe it started losing not because of IE being bundled, but because people simply liked IE better.
I was a Netscape user; I continued to use it until around 2000 or so, when I moved to the pre-1.0 FF. What's your explaination for why Netscape, even being free, could not compete, yet FF somehow can?
Vista, and I believe all NT based kernels, are hybrid kernels, not monolithic. BSD is also a hybrid kernel, and from what I understand is actually more stable than even Linux.
I think much of the "Vista failure" is the herd mentality. People raved and raved about the Blair Witch Project. Was it really a good movie? I hated it, and I think most people looking back today hate it. But everyone was agreeing with everyone else, because they wanted to be part of a group.
The problem is that it's unstable, unusable bloatware.
And yet here we are, running it fine everyday. Even performing better than XP.
Cripes, I couldn't get Windows Update to run with Microsoft Tech Support. If Microsoft can't get their software to update, how can an average user?
Something is wrong with your computer. That doesn't mean ALL Vista users are having your issue. I'd suspect most aren't. I've heard a lot of complaints about Vista, this hasn't been one of them.
You could say the same about Linux, that its destroying the market to be able to SELL an OS. Hell you can say it about FF. After all, people are leaving IE and moving to FF, maybe FF shouldn't be given away for free either.
You keep saying that, yet its not true. I've been using FF since before it was renamed. Even then, I didn't hit sites that required IE. The compaint is that Opera can't compete because IE comes bundled and people won't download another browser. FF proves beyond a doubt this is not so, and that IE's OS monopoly isn't keeping other browsers down. Maybe people would rather get another browser FOR FREE than pay for Opera? Hmm..
and the recent IE8 standards switch just proves this point.
I like how everyone ignores that they worked with the HTML working group to put this idea together, and that there's nothing keeping other browsers from implmenting this and being included. But spin however you like.
I disagree, while there are drones, many intelligent people can be found working in construction. Even if not however people in construction still need to be able to measure things. Thinking about this while replying reminded me of a friend I had in college, after working as a steel worker in building skyscrapers for years he started college majoring in architecture. He said once that if anyone on a construction site ever said they couldn't construct what he drew on his plans, if he tried to do it and was able to he'd fire them.
Ahh, anecdoate as evidence, lovely. And using an arrogant friend as an example as well.
The first house I mentioned was a private home, my sister's.
And exactly how many times have inspectors come to check the smoke detectors?
Wow, you are exteremly naive. The French people's taxes won't go down. They'll use the money to buy computer hardware, more guns, hire more officers, etc. But none of it will go back to the French people.
Personally, given what our governments are up to, I think LESS police is a better solution than more. More police = more corruption.
That's a pretty poor line of reasoning. All civilizations fail, and most of their art will vanish anyway. How much art do we have from Ancient Greece, the Mayians, etc? We have some, but there probably is much that was lost forever. Oh well.
I wonder how you and your family would feel, if the next Nazi group decides to get rid of them, and our government allows it to save some art.
Really? Did any reason of the surrender have to do with all the Nazi supports in France? Did sabotage also come from those same supporters outing Jews and dissidents?
I can blame them; there was a significant portion that actively supported the Nazis.
But if FF numbers are raising and those numbers are accurate, than it follows MS isn't (or can't) leverage its OS monopoly. In other words, Opera's complaint falls apart, because an OS monopoly is proving not to be effective to leverage another market.
See? That's exactly why an expert is needed to sell this to the staff. You need them to see the equation Improving the process = making it more efficient = people is more productive = we can produce more = we can make more money = we can give better bonuses.
Except that the OP works for a non-profit, so there is a good possibility there are no bonuses.
I used to work in construction and I met too many that didn't understand what 9" 1 1/2" meant. While metric measurements are easier to understand for some others don't understand it.
Given that intelligent people don't usually go into construction, that's somewhat to be expected. Metric is always easier though; its just a matter of knowing how many places to move the decimal point.
I first learned smoke detectors were required when a house I was living in was remodeled. It's a two story house with the top floor the main living area but the bottom floor was converted into an apartment with it's own kitchen and bath.
I now live in an old house, a different one, that was converted into apartments. The city requires apartment buildings to be registered, and taxed, and as part of that it inspects the buildings.
Again, the city can require anything it wants, but it won't affect private homeowners. Of course apartments are another matter... but you gave no indication you were talking about an apartment originally.
Your sentement is only rational if there actually is a real risk of the threat you describe. More people die in NYC from heart disease than they do in terror attacks. Therefore, the only rational thing is to worry (and take action to mitigate) death from heart disease.
I don't know, I've met people I wouldn't trust to measure something with my tape measure. I've seen people asked to measure and cut a 2X4 to measure it wrong.
Perhaps you were not clear enough explaining what you wanted. Or perhaps this is indicitive of a problem with using inches and pounds.
Smoke alarms are required where I live. And they have to work, I took out the batteries in the alarms I have and I was told they had to be in the smoke alarms by city inspectors.
A rather useless law. Unless you ask the inspector to your house, how would they ever know your detectors are not working?
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Indeed. I like Postgres much more than MySql, and I think its a great database engine.
So, what would you call an SE graduate from RIT in the states? I haven't heard anyone call themselves a Software Engineer and their only backing was an MS test. Usually those are "MS-certified," but not a Software Engineer.
That doesn't mean SE if less rigourous. It just means that a building engineer must ensure the wall holds at most X lbs without collapsing, and if it does that, it can do all values less than X.
Software though, you can only prove that X lbs are handled without collapsing, but X - 1 or X + 1 might make that happen. You won't know unless you actually test that value.
Ya, its the governments fault. Both state and federal. Maybe if the state governments would wake up and stop yielding more and more power to the federal, all states wouldn't have a huge money vaccuum that goes for say, paying for a war in Iraq and Afganistan, or other useless project.
Personally I'd rather eliminate much of goverment, especially at the Federal level, so that we don't need to pay so much in taxes.
What do you mean? I said "a lot of compatibility", not "complete compatibility".
If your claim were true that many or most sites were built for IE though, than it would not matter how much compatibility FF got from Netscape.
I mainly use Opera, and it's not like I keep track of sites that don't work in Firefox. When I've come across such sites I have just moved on.
So then how are you in any position to claim that there are "many sites which only work in IE?" Did you consider that maybe they just aren't working on a tiny browser almost no one cares about?
Unless you are claiming that Firefox is compatible with 100% of all sites out there of course
Not at all. Just that they are rare. I don't care if someone's AOL page doesn't render properly.
To quote someone else in this discussion: "Just because it's obvious that Microsoft hasn't totally eradicated all competition, it doesn't mean that the market hasn't been harmed or that Opera hasn't had an undue burden placed upon it via illegal practices."
Yet you don't complain that FF is killing the pay for browser market, just IE. If IE did decline and FF was the major browser out there, would you be crying foul? If not, you don't really have a point, you just want to hate MS.
I suggest that the uptake of FF is proof that the market is actually doing very well; its just that no one thinks they should have to pay for a web browser.
then I honestly wouldn't be suprised if they started suing, say, news anchors for using the word Super Bowl in newscasts covering the weekend.
Apparently in VT, none of the local newstations paid up, because I've only heard them say "big game."
If you really believe law to be unjust you do not follow it at all. Even our Founding Fathers reconized this.
Wow, where were you when they taught you about Rosa Parks? In a Chinese prison cell for speaking your mind?
Well, that's a good point, but if your mom needed to do that to get a program working, there are pretty clear instructions on how to do so. Vista will typically ask you "did this program run correctly?" and if you answer no, will take those steps for you.
Good for you. Not everyone is so lucky. It should be pointed out, however, that Firefox got a lot of compatibility for free because most webmasters knew about Netscape, so they took the new Netscape with Gecko into account when designing sites. Firefox used Gecko too, so it benefitted from Netscape's fame in webmaster circles.
Followed by:
Nope. People can download other browsers, but in reality many sites still require IE because of Microsoft's transgressions.
Really, which is it? Also, please name some major sites that only work in IE. I've yet to find any.
It is. Firefox has 15% globally. Are you really saying that Firefox would have a mere 15% globally if there was actual competition in the browser market?
If there's not competition, than what prompted MS to start developing IE again? We just got version 7, and version 8 is coming... but if FF isn't real competition, really, why would MS waste time with furhter versions of IE? Your argument is not consistent.
So should MS now cry foul because Linux is around? FWIW, Linux wasn't created "for free" because no one could sell an OS. It started as a hobbiest project given away as free.
Then you have to wonder why Netscape went free. It was free in 1996 when I started college. I doubt Win95 has gained enough market share in one year to force Netscapes hand. According to this, Netscape leading and it was still free. I believe it started losing not because of IE being bundled, but because people simply liked IE better.
I was a Netscape user; I continued to use it until around 2000 or so, when I moved to the pre-1.0 FF. What's your explaination for why Netscape, even being free, could not compete, yet FF somehow can?
Vista, and I believe all NT based kernels, are hybrid kernels, not monolithic. BSD is also a hybrid kernel, and from what I understand is actually more stable than even Linux.
I think much of the "Vista failure" is the herd mentality. People raved and raved about the Blair Witch Project. Was it really a good movie? I hated it, and I think most people looking back today hate it. But everyone was agreeing with everyone else, because they wanted to be part of a group.
The problem is that it's unstable, unusable bloatware.
And yet here we are, running it fine everyday. Even performing better than XP.
Cripes, I couldn't get Windows Update to run with Microsoft Tech Support. If Microsoft can't get their software to update, how can an average user?
Something is wrong with your computer. That doesn't mean ALL Vista users are having your issue. I'd suspect most aren't. I've heard a lot of complaints about Vista, this hasn't been one of them.
You could say the same about Linux, that its destroying the market to be able to SELL an OS. Hell you can say it about FF. After all, people are leaving IE and moving to FF, maybe FF shouldn't be given away for free either.
You keep saying that, yet its not true. I've been using FF since before it was renamed. Even then, I didn't hit sites that required IE. The compaint is that Opera can't compete because IE comes bundled and people won't download another browser. FF proves beyond a doubt this is not so, and that IE's OS monopoly isn't keeping other browsers down. Maybe people would rather get another browser FOR FREE than pay for Opera? Hmm..
and the recent IE8 standards switch just proves this point.
I like how everyone ignores that they worked with the HTML working group to put this idea together, and that there's nothing keeping other browsers from implmenting this and being included. But spin however you like.
I disagree, while there are drones, many intelligent people can be found working in construction. Even if not however people in construction still need to be able to measure things. Thinking about this while replying reminded me of a friend I had in college, after working as a steel worker in building skyscrapers for years he started college majoring in architecture. He said once that if anyone on a construction site ever said they couldn't construct what he drew on his plans, if he tried to do it and was able to he'd fire them.
Ahh, anecdoate as evidence, lovely. And using an arrogant friend as an example as well.
The first house I mentioned was a private home, my sister's.
And exactly how many times have inspectors come to check the smoke detectors?
Wow, you are exteremly naive. The French people's taxes won't go down. They'll use the money to buy computer hardware, more guns, hire more officers, etc. But none of it will go back to the French people.
Personally, given what our governments are up to, I think LESS police is a better solution than more. More police = more corruption.
That's a pretty poor line of reasoning. All civilizations fail, and most of their art will vanish anyway. How much art do we have from Ancient Greece, the Mayians, etc? We have some, but there probably is much that was lost forever. Oh well.
I wonder how you and your family would feel, if the next Nazi group decides to get rid of them, and our government allows it to save some art.
Really? Did any reason of the surrender have to do with all the Nazi supports in France? Did sabotage also come from those same supporters outing Jews and dissidents?
I can blame them; there was a significant portion that actively supported the Nazis.
But if FF numbers are raising and those numbers are accurate, than it follows MS isn't (or can't) leverage its OS monopoly. In other words, Opera's complaint falls apart, because an OS monopoly is proving not to be effective to leverage another market.
See? That's exactly why an expert is needed to sell this to the staff. You need them to see the equation Improving the process = making it more efficient = people is more productive = we can produce more = we can make more money = we can give better bonuses.
Except that the OP works for a non-profit, so there is a good possibility there are no bonuses.
I used to work in construction and I met too many that didn't understand what 9" 1 1/2" meant. While metric measurements are easier to understand for some others don't understand it.
Given that intelligent people don't usually go into construction, that's somewhat to be expected. Metric is always easier though; its just a matter of knowing how many places to move the decimal point.
I first learned smoke detectors were required when a house I was living in was remodeled. It's a two story house with the top floor the main living area but the bottom floor was converted into an apartment with it's own kitchen and bath.
I now live in an old house, a different one, that was converted into apartments. The city requires apartment buildings to be registered, and taxed, and as part of that it inspects the buildings.
Again, the city can require anything it wants, but it won't affect private homeowners. Of course apartments are another matter... but you gave no indication you were talking about an apartment originally.
Your sentement is only rational if there actually is a real risk of the threat you describe. More people die in NYC from heart disease than they do in terror attacks. Therefore, the only rational thing is to worry (and take action to mitigate) death from heart disease.
I don't know, I've met people I wouldn't trust to measure something with my tape measure. I've seen people asked to measure and cut a 2X4 to measure it wrong.
Perhaps you were not clear enough explaining what you wanted. Or perhaps this is indicitive of a problem with using inches and pounds.
Smoke alarms are required where I live. And they have to work, I took out the batteries in the alarms I have and I was told they had to be in the smoke alarms by city inspectors.
A rather useless law. Unless you ask the inspector to your house, how would they ever know your detectors are not working?