If it takes Microsoft five years to get something out the door, I think they will soon find themselves becoming irrelevant in the desktop market.
Uh huh. Because if they don't get this experimental COMMAND LINE SHELL into their operating system, they are gonna lose tons of market share, right?
Microsoft has issues. Let's not get distracted, ok?
In addition, you are totally ignoring the fact that the guy said THREE to five years. Not Five. He gave a range. And seeing as how he is not on the team developing Monad, I'd say he also is clueless about how long it will take to get it ready.
Secondly, who cares if it is shipped with Longhorn? Perl 5.8 probably won't be either, but that doesn't stop me from using it for scripting.
If Slate was reporting news, I would agree with you, but the guy on Slate admitted it was an urban legend, but was using the concept it presented to setup his opinions. So I'll cut him some journalistic slack, unlike Dan Rather.;)
saw the episode. Was good.. But the web page mentions "Bjorn Lomborg" as an expert. He is from my home country and has been under the fire numerous times before for his environmental ideas.
The Bullshit show allows people to label themselves, and when you hear them talk, you will immediately be able to draw your own conclusions.:-)
I really enjoyed the "Penn & Teller: Bullshit!" episode about environmental activists. +1 Funny AND Insightful, highly recommended viewing.
I think the thing that stuck with me the most is that the environmental activists started out decades ago with a good idea, and then were usurped by anti-American/anti-Capitalist propaganda peddlers.
hmmmm, some of us have more important things to do than sit around and watch the stars for something that will never come.
Like post on slashdot?
If you would like to take over my job and do all my duties so i can go help via volutary work, i'd be glad to drop everything right now...
Gee, that would be some sacrifice. So you'd get paid by your employer to go do "volunteer" work. While this other guy would actually be making the sacrifice by doing your job for no compensation. Yeah.
Volunteering time is very different from "volunteering money" anyway.
No, it sounds like they are both similar in one way: You do neither.
Every single penny spent on SETI is a total and complete waste
In your opinion.
when people get sick of waiting for nothing to happen, they will drop their private funding and realize they just spent millions of dollars on something that had NO return for them at all, or ANYONE for that matter
Really? Did that money disappear into the atmosphere? You might want to think through how our economy works before you start spouting off your stupidity in the future.
Unless the SETI scientists are taking the private donations and shoving them up their ass, I am pretty sure even this "total waste of time" is resulting in the employment of people, and more importantly, advancing scientific research in the field of radar astronomy.
This, people, is a bloodless revolution in action. Something to tell your grandchildern about. "What's that grandpa? How could software have been anything but free?"
Actual conversation:
"What's that grandpa? You never got laid and I'm just a figment of your imagination on a geek web site?"
Seriously though, implying that all software is going to be free in the future just because there are a couple free grains of sand on the beach of software is incredibly naive.
I'm convinced the only reason online music stores sell anything at all is that they're too new. 99.9% of users haven't read the fine print and won't find out that they didn't really buy anything until the next upgrade cycle comes around.
The only reason you are convinced of this is because you are not familiar with how the #1 music store works (iTunes). I have had many upgrade cycles. No problem. Deauthorize my computer. Move to new computer. Reauthorize.
You can have 5 authorizations at once. That means I can share all my music with my brother and my girlfriend and still have 3 left for my two desktops and 1 laptop computer.
The only problem they haven't quite solved is what to do when your system crashes and you cannot deauthorize it.
However, I had this happen to me, and I contacted iTunes, and that same day they emailed me back to tell me they had cleared out all 5 authorizations and I could start from scratch. (They also told me they won't do this again.)
If you are really concerned, pull up all your iTunes music and burn CDs for each album. Then you have a copy that can later be ripped from or just played from if disaster strikes. Like if someone breaks into your car and steals all your physical CDs.
Television is no more a luxury item than is a car or radio.
Congratulations, welcome to the obvious. TVs and cars are luxury items. Luxury items are things you don't need to live. You can get around by foot, by bike, or by public transportation.
It is important that people know what is going on in their neighborhood and television is a much better way to disseminate this information than mass mailings.
Sorry, it is not really that important for a person too poor to buy a television to know what is going on in his neighborhood. People that poor can walk around and ask what is going on.
This probably seems mean to you, but it is apparantly because you are so out of touch with reality. The word "poor" is bandied about far too often. America has a really, really tiny number of poor people living here.
However, we do have a ton of people who are lazy, make barely enough to get by, and purchase unneeded luxury items with debt. Kind of like our government.
Of course, I'm familiar with your political views, namely that people who can't afford to pay the going rate don't deserve the service in question.
How is it a political view that a person who doesn't have enough money won't be able to buy a luxury item -- and doesn't need that (by definition). Am I supposed to feel bad for someone that doesn't do what is necessary to make enough money to buy luxury items?
I'm sure you'd be content letting people starve if they didn't have enough money
Well, no I wouldn't. Sorry to disappoint you. Apparantly you can't tell the difference between a necessity, like food and shelter, with a luxury like cars and TVs and radios. Sorry.
the Gods of the Free Market won't let that happen since there will always be a seller willing to sell at a low enough price so everyone can buy
Ummm... no, that's not at all how the free market works. There is no guarantee you will be able to afford anything. That's what private charities are for. To help people in need buy things they need.
Not TVs.
It all works out so perfectly in your perfect little world.
Yes, when someone not blinded by their bleeding heart takes an honest look at the situation instead of how it "feels."
I'd love for you to have to live in a run-down apartment with a dead-end job and no hope to ever get out of the situation you were born into.
Hilarious. Whose fault is that person's run-down apartment and dead-end job? Oh, they were "born into it." Tell that to every person that has worked hard, smart, and long (and occasionally luckily) to bring themselves up in the world. I was born into lower-middle class (what you might call "poor") and through hard work and study, I now make a great living. Thanks to me, the federal government brings in $14,000 in income taxes (not counting payroll taxes or any other hidden taxes), and my state government brings in an extra $6000.
That money is wasted on government bureaucracy, pork barrel spending, and I would estimate 5% of it put to good use. That is why I'm a Libertarian, because this stupidity has gone on long enough. And you, sadly, are part of that problem.
And yes, this is a troll as well, so if the mods could please mod me down, I'll be happy.
Like most folks on Slashdot, you have no idea what a troll is. A troll is a post whose sole purpose is to get as many replies as possible. I don't waste my time with that bullshit, I post my opinions, and if you don't like it, tough shit. If you need to label it a troll in order to make yourself feel better, that's your problem.
I think SETI is one of the most serious wastes of resources ever dreamed up.
And I think your use of Slashdot is one of the most serious wastes of resources ever dreamed up -- but I'm not paying for it, so I don't really give a shit.
All that ridiculous funding...
What ridiculous funding? From the SETI website:
"All SETI research conducted by the Institute since 1994 has been funded by private, philanthropic support for Project Phoenix and advance design work on the Allen Telescope Array and next generation SETI systems."
If you want to talk about ridiculous funding, I could name about 50 government bureaucracies for you, though.... could go to something much more important......to you......than trying to find something that probably wouldnt contact us even if it could...
The point of SETI is to discover extra-terrestrial intelligence. It would be a major success just to prove there is ET, even if we could never contact them or have a conversation.
Have you watched pros play golf? Or anyone, for that matter, who walks at least 18 holes with their clubs? They sweat. It's a great workout. I'm in decent shape (meaning I'm not fat, but I'm not in great cardio shape), and playing 18 holes carrying my clubs is not easy.
I also have played racquetball, and that is also a great workout, especially for cardio, if the two playing are decent. Golf is more of an endurance sport that requires a long period of focus.
BTW, I hate Golf. I do respect it.
If sweat is what qualifies a sport, then sitting on the beach is a sport. Try again.
[Apple] will suffer a financial hit when someone gets it running on commodity hardware.
They will? Prove it. You are only considering one outcome, that Apple will lose hardware sales to people that buy PCs and load OS X on them.
You are ignoring many other possible outcomes:
- Millions of people with existing PC hardware may plunk down $129 to purchase OS X that would never have bought Apple hardware in the first place. Would this not be practically pure profit for Apple? How much other Apple software will these people then buy? How many more iTunes converts will there be?
- People will buy OS X, install it on their existing PC, and when it comes time to upgrade their hardware, may now consider buying Apple hardware where they would never have done so before.
It is all about mindshare. Before the move to Intel processors, Apple was not in a position to win mindshare from the Windows crowd, because it required an investment in hardware to switch.
Perhaps Steve Jobs is thinking further ahead than you give him credit for. After all, he had them make OS X work on Intel for the past 5 years. Do you really think he has not considered every path in the future?
Windows programming is a combination between brute force and kludged hack, with just almost no technique or architectural finesse.
Your post is a combination between brute force and a kludged hack, with just almost no technique or architectural finesse. When painting with such a broad brush, it helps to use a bit more paint.
Or did you mean the old Windows API? Yes, that API sucks. Most developers I know now are developing in.NET, which is a great API.
Get it done, and hope it works.
Ummm, this is a programmer problem, not a Windows problem.
When is the last time you saw a windows app that people used for 5 years without an update and said "yeah it works great". It's like disposable software, not disposable like a funcam, disposable like an adult diaper, you just can't put up with the same one for more than a day.
Ha. Interesting way to turn a feature into a problem, and make the Mac problem of limited software availability into a feature.
Let's see, which is more likely:
(a) People switch Windows software more often because none of the millions of available programs are any good, and Mac users switch software once every 5 years because each piece of software "just works."
or
(b) Windows users happen to have a ton of software available, a ton of competition in each segment of the software market, and when one of those competitors comes out with something better, they switch. A piece of software that is 5 years old is likely outdated by something newer.
Compatibility is secondary to consistency, and programming doesn't mean learning a new way to malloc memory for EVERY G-D interface you try to use. It's like all those MIT guys I knew made an os with all their theory, and kept with it, even when the marketing pricks masturbated on them with their quick-to-copy new features and API's, that were so badly designed that 5 months later they became "legacy" (do not fuck with me on this, look through the windows com+ and ATL specs, or anything involving OLE
Ummm yeah, well let me introduce you to.NET, which basically makes your entire "point" moot.
Well, another decade from now maybe Mach 1.0 will be out and another ridiculously long software milestone will have been reached.
You're comparing the kernel of Mac OS X to the Windows GUI programming APIs? How exactly is that a fair comparison?
Slashdot Mirror
SeamlessWeb is here (or rather, in New York, Chicago, Washington, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles and southern Connecticut)
I just went to their site and it says New York only. Other cities "coming soon."
Uhhhh... great article.
"WTF do you want us to do about it, all the guidance computers are on your ship!"
MS may be a monopolistic greedy bloodsucker, but they do not deserve all the bashing they get for the software they actually design themselves
Microsoft did not design this software. They bought a company that wrote it, and are now working it over. FWIW.
(though I could be wrong, I'm just think I remember hearing something about that one time)
Sir, don't be bashful, the editors of Slashdot think you might be pretty good at writing reviews. Get to it!
If it takes Microsoft five years to get something out the door, I think they will soon find themselves becoming irrelevant in the desktop market.
Uh huh. Because if they don't get this experimental COMMAND LINE SHELL into their operating system, they are gonna lose tons of market share, right?
Microsoft has issues. Let's not get distracted, ok?
In addition, you are totally ignoring the fact that the guy said THREE to five years. Not Five. He gave a range. And seeing as how he is not on the team developing Monad, I'd say he also is clueless about how long it will take to get it ready.
Secondly, who cares if it is shipped with Longhorn? Perl 5.8 probably won't be either, but that doesn't stop me from using it for scripting.
Thank you, Dan Rather. It doesn't work that way.
;)
If Slate was reporting news, I would agree with you, but the guy on Slate admitted it was an urban legend, but was using the concept it presented to setup his opinions. So I'll cut him some journalistic slack, unlike Dan Rather.
Hitler disagrees with you.
saw the episode. Was good.. But the web page mentions "Bjorn Lomborg" as an expert. He is from my home country and has been under the fire numerous times before for his environmental ideas.
:-)
The Bullshit show allows people to label themselves, and when you hear them talk, you will immediately be able to draw your own conclusions.
Link to information on the P&T episode I mentioned
I really enjoyed the "Penn & Teller: Bullshit!" episode about environmental activists. +1 Funny AND Insightful, highly recommended viewing.
I think the thing that stuck with me the most is that the environmental activists started out decades ago with a good idea, and then were usurped by anti-American/anti-Capitalist propaganda peddlers.
hmmmm, some of us have more important things to do than sit around and watch the stars for something that will never come.
Like post on slashdot?
If you would like to take over my job and do all my duties so i can go help via volutary work, i'd be glad to drop everything right now...
Gee, that would be some sacrifice. So you'd get paid by your employer to go do "volunteer" work. While this other guy would actually be making the sacrifice by doing your job for no compensation. Yeah.
Volunteering time is very different from "volunteering money" anyway.
No, it sounds like they are both similar in one way: You do neither.
Every single penny spent on SETI is a total and complete waste
In your opinion.
when people get sick of waiting for nothing to happen, they will drop their private funding and realize they just spent millions of dollars on something that had NO return for them at all, or ANYONE for that matter
Really? Did that money disappear into the atmosphere? You might want to think through how our economy works before you start spouting off your stupidity in the future.
Unless the SETI scientists are taking the private donations and shoving them up their ass, I am pretty sure even this "total waste of time" is resulting in the employment of people, and more importantly, advancing scientific research in the field of radar astronomy.
This, people, is a bloodless revolution in action. Something to tell your grandchildern about. "What's that grandpa? How could software have been anything but free?"
Actual conversation:
"What's that grandpa? You never got laid and I'm just a figment of your imagination on a geek web site?"
Seriously though, implying that all software is going to be free in the future just because there are a couple free grains of sand on the beach of software is incredibly naive.
How many of those PS3 games are free?
You obviously don't live in Columbus, Ohio.
Why, do they chop your legs off when you move there?
I'm convinced the only reason online music stores sell anything at all is that they're too new. 99.9% of users haven't read the fine print and won't find out that they didn't really buy anything until the next upgrade cycle comes around.
The only reason you are convinced of this is because you are not familiar with how the #1 music store works (iTunes). I have had many upgrade cycles. No problem. Deauthorize my computer. Move to new computer. Reauthorize.
You can have 5 authorizations at once. That means I can share all my music with my brother and my girlfriend and still have 3 left for my two desktops and 1 laptop computer.
The only problem they haven't quite solved is what to do when your system crashes and you cannot deauthorize it.
However, I had this happen to me, and I contacted iTunes, and that same day they emailed me back to tell me they had cleared out all 5 authorizations and I could start from scratch. (They also told me they won't do this again.)
If you are really concerned, pull up all your iTunes music and burn CDs for each album. Then you have a copy that can later be ripped from or just played from if disaster strikes. Like if someone breaks into your car and steals all your physical CDs.
Television is no more a luxury item than is a car or radio.
Congratulations, welcome to the obvious. TVs and cars are luxury items. Luxury items are things you don't need to live. You can get around by foot, by bike, or by public transportation.
It is important that people know what is going on in their neighborhood and television is a much better way to disseminate this information than mass mailings.
Sorry, it is not really that important for a person too poor to buy a television to know what is going on in his neighborhood. People that poor can walk around and ask what is going on.
This probably seems mean to you, but it is apparantly because you are so out of touch with reality. The word "poor" is bandied about far too often. America has a really, really tiny number of poor people living here.
However, we do have a ton of people who are lazy, make barely enough to get by, and purchase unneeded luxury items with debt. Kind of like our government.
Of course, I'm familiar with your political views, namely that people who can't afford to pay the going rate don't deserve the service in question.
How is it a political view that a person who doesn't have enough money won't be able to buy a luxury item -- and doesn't need that (by definition). Am I supposed to feel bad for someone that doesn't do what is necessary to make enough money to buy luxury items?
I'm sure you'd be content letting people starve if they didn't have enough money
Well, no I wouldn't. Sorry to disappoint you. Apparantly you can't tell the difference between a necessity, like food and shelter, with a luxury like cars and TVs and radios. Sorry.
the Gods of the Free Market won't let that happen since there will always be a seller willing to sell at a low enough price so everyone can buy
Ummm... no, that's not at all how the free market works. There is no guarantee you will be able to afford anything. That's what private charities are for. To help people in need buy things they need.
Not TVs.
It all works out so perfectly in your perfect little world.
Yes, when someone not blinded by their bleeding heart takes an honest look at the situation instead of how it "feels."
I'd love for you to have to live in a run-down apartment with a dead-end job and no hope to ever get out of the situation you were born into.
Hilarious. Whose fault is that person's run-down apartment and dead-end job? Oh, they were "born into it." Tell that to every person that has worked hard, smart, and long (and occasionally luckily) to bring themselves up in the world. I was born into lower-middle class (what you might call "poor") and through hard work and study, I now make a great living. Thanks to me, the federal government brings in $14,000 in income taxes (not counting payroll taxes or any other hidden taxes), and my state government brings in an extra $6000.
That money is wasted on government bureaucracy, pork barrel spending, and I would estimate 5% of it put to good use. That is why I'm a Libertarian, because this stupidity has gone on long enough. And you, sadly, are part of that problem.
And yes, this is a troll as well, so if the mods could please mod me down, I'll be happy.
Like most folks on Slashdot, you have no idea what a troll is. A troll is a post whose sole purpose is to get as many replies as possible. I don't waste my time with that bullshit, I post my opinions, and if you don't like it, tough shit. If you need to label it a troll in order to make yourself feel better, that's your problem.
So a "poor" person can afford a $200 luxury item?
Oh, I forgot, these are the neo-poor, where everyone that isn't rich is considered "working poor" for political reasons.
It sounds like nipple. It is Intel with the only friendly user interface.
And you were so close to getting this joke right.
The nipple is the only truly intuitive user interface.
Ummm
-1 Cliche
is more like it.
All your base belong to FUCK OFF.
You rang
I think SETI is one of the most serious wastes of resources ever dreamed up.
... could go to something much more important... ...to you... ...than trying to find something that probably wouldnt contact us even if it could...
And I think your use of Slashdot is one of the most serious wastes of resources ever dreamed up -- but I'm not paying for it, so I don't really give a shit.
All that ridiculous funding...
What ridiculous funding? From the SETI website:
"All SETI research conducted by the Institute since 1994 has been funded by private, philanthropic support for Project Phoenix and advance design work on the Allen Telescope Array and next generation SETI systems."
If you want to talk about ridiculous funding, I could name about 50 government bureaucracies for you, though.
The point of SETI is to discover extra-terrestrial intelligence. It would be a major success just to prove there is ET, even if we could never contact them or have a conversation.
To qualify as a sport, you must sweat.
Have you watched pros play golf? Or anyone, for that matter, who walks at least 18 holes with their clubs? They sweat. It's a great workout. I'm in decent shape (meaning I'm not fat, but I'm not in great cardio shape), and playing 18 holes carrying my clubs is not easy.
I also have played racquetball, and that is also a great workout, especially for cardio, if the two playing are decent. Golf is more of an endurance sport that requires a long period of focus.
BTW, I hate Golf. I do respect it.
If sweat is what qualifies a sport, then sitting on the beach is a sport. Try again.
[Apple] will suffer a financial hit when someone gets it running on commodity hardware.
They will? Prove it. You are only considering one outcome, that Apple will lose hardware sales to people that buy PCs and load OS X on them.
You are ignoring many other possible outcomes:
- Millions of people with existing PC hardware may plunk down $129 to purchase OS X that would never have bought Apple hardware in the first place. Would this not be practically pure profit for Apple? How much other Apple software will these people then buy? How many more iTunes converts will there be?
- People will buy OS X, install it on their existing PC, and when it comes time to upgrade their hardware, may now consider buying Apple hardware where they would never have done so before.
It is all about mindshare. Before the move to Intel processors, Apple was not in a position to win mindshare from the Windows crowd, because it required an investment in hardware to switch.
Perhaps Steve Jobs is thinking further ahead than you give him credit for. After all, he had them make OS X work on Intel for the past 5 years. Do you really think he has not considered every path in the future?
Uhhh yeah. Since we're speculating, don't you find it MUCH more likely that Google plans to offer businesses a way to tap into Google Maps for a fee?
I am glad that a company that "does no evil" is better off than a company that does nothing but evil. That only goes to demonstrate the power of good.
And your post goes to demonstrate unabashed naiveté.
Windows programming is a combination between brute force and kludged hack, with just almost no technique or architectural finesse.
.NET, which is a great API.
.NET, which basically makes your entire "point" moot.
Your post is a combination between brute force and a kludged hack, with just almost no technique or architectural finesse. When painting with such a broad brush, it helps to use a bit more paint.
Or did you mean the old Windows API? Yes, that API sucks. Most developers I know now are developing in
Get it done, and hope it works.
Ummm, this is a programmer problem, not a Windows problem.
When is the last time you saw a windows app that people used for 5 years without an update and said "yeah it works great". It's like disposable software, not disposable like a funcam, disposable like an adult diaper, you just can't put up with the same one for more than a day.
Ha. Interesting way to turn a feature into a problem, and make the Mac problem of limited software availability into a feature.
Let's see, which is more likely:
(a) People switch Windows software more often because none of the millions of available programs are any good, and Mac users switch software once every 5 years because each piece of software "just works."
or
(b) Windows users happen to have a ton of software available, a ton of competition in each segment of the software market, and when one of those competitors comes out with something better, they switch. A piece of software that is 5 years old is likely outdated by something newer.
Compatibility is secondary to consistency, and programming doesn't mean learning a new way to malloc memory for EVERY G-D interface you try to use. It's like all those MIT guys I knew made an os with all their theory, and kept with it, even when the marketing pricks masturbated on them with their quick-to-copy new features and API's, that were so badly designed that 5 months later they became "legacy" (do not fuck with me on this, look through the windows com+ and ATL specs, or anything involving OLE
Ummm yeah, well let me introduce you to
Well, another decade from now maybe Mach 1.0 will be out and another ridiculously long software milestone will have been reached.
You're comparing the kernel of Mac OS X to the Windows GUI programming APIs? How exactly is that a fair comparison?