And non-Jews, born in Israel, are explicitly forbidden from becoming citizens of Israel.
What?
Uggh, this is what happens when people get all their Israel/Palestine news from electronicintifada.com.
And please justify your statistic that 19% of Arabs in Israel can vote, it seems highly misleading to me (yada yada yada lies damn lies statistics).
I hope you hate Saudi Arabia as much as Israel, because they are even more pro-Islam than Israel is pro-Jewish. In fact, other religions cannot be legally and openly practiced there.
But hey, why criticize any other country, Israel is the only bad player in the Middle East.
The average Zionist Israeli is more than 10x as wealthy as the average Palestinian.
so, what's your point? The average Palestinian is richer than the average aboriginal Bushman tribe member.
I guess the difference between Palestinians and Israelis is that when the Israeli immigrants came who were kicked out of their homes in other Arab and European countries, they got on with their lives and worked hard.
Most Palestinians, it seems, would rather destroy their own lives wallowing in sewage mudholes, hoping to get back arbitrary land most of them have never lived in, than move on with their lives.
Jordan has offered citizenship to any Palestinian, but most choose not to get on with their lives.
The daily water use of a Zionist is six times that of a Palestinian. If the Jews had to pay for it, instead of taking it by force, the economic disparities would be reversed within a decade.
Interesting, you only compare Israel and Palestine. Why not Jordan and Palestine, or Egypt and Palestine, on this same statistic?
Anyway, Israelis are paying Egypt for water in new agreements. But I wouldn't expect clueless leftists who hate Israel more than they love Palestine to actually be interested in real news.
hey, I'm totaly with you here but.. which rich neighboorhoods are those? Ramat Beit Hakerim and....
I was expressing sarcasm because the concept of 'rich Jews, poor exploited Palestinians' is perpetrated so often many 'enlightened' folk actually believe it.
Israel -- In my opinion, Israel is now perpetrating its own Holocaust, and has been so for years. God will damn you, Gen. Sharon. 'Nuff said.
[ Reply to This ]
Where are the death camps?
If you think Israel is perpetrating its own Holocause, are you man enough to admit also acknowledge that Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan are as well?
most people currently claiming to be "Jewish" are from the Caucasian Ashkenazi.
Are you from the US?
There are more Sephardic Jews in Israel than Ashkenazic. And there's a significant population of Israeli Jews that are Arab Jews, ie from Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc.
And your comment about Orthodox Rabbis being critical of the modern Israeli state, I wouldn't count on them being your anti-Israel allies. In most cases, these Rabbis are just as fanatical as the pro-settlement Rabbis. The difference is how the two interpret one section of Jewish scripture. The anti-Israel Rabbis interpret it to mean that Jews should wait for G-d's return in the diaspora, instead of the holy land. If they interpreted the scripture to mean to remain in Jerusalem, you'd bet all these Rabbis would instantly change their opinion.
What is the difference between a Zionist and a White Supremacist?
You're demonstrating your great ignorance here.
Zionism is merely the belief that Jews have a right to have a Jewish state.
Zionism in itself is absolutely no more racist than the belief by Muslims that there can exist Muslim states, or Christians for a Christian state, etc.
As the subsequent poster said, zealots have hijacked Zionism, so now general people such as yourself think it means the right to create a Jewish state, kick out anybody else who's not Jewish, etc. This is NOT what Zionism is, please don't confuse these two.
And while you're making comparisons to White Supremecism, let's acknowledge that this is what many Arab Supremacists do. Look at Hamas. They will not let any non-Arab outsider immigrate to their land, and will wear masks and terrorize them until they're either dead or gone. Exactly the same as the KKK.
The interesting thing is that while liberals strongly denounce the KKK and its efforts to create an ethnically-pure free-of-outsiders white Christian culture. But at the same time many liberals strongly support xenophobic Arab supremacists that won't let non-Arabs immigrate to their land and contaminate their ethnically-pure Arab culture.
the similarities to the Apartheid state are illuminating.
Well,then, the similarities between the Arab states and South Africa should be even more illuminating.
Going after Israel for its "apartheid" is like dragging someone with 5 speeding tickets to court, and ignoring all that person's neighbors with 2 counts of DUI.
Arabs in Israel have orders of magnitude more rights than corresponding Jews in Arab countries. Maybe the equality isn't perfect, but it's damn better than Jews.
Look at Jordan. What is it's Jewish population? ZERO! Not even a few Jews scattered about. NO JEWS AT ALL! Talk about ethnic cleansing. In fact, Jews are explicitly forbidden from becoming citizens of Jordan.
But hey, lets instead argue that Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem don't have as well-tended streets as rich Jewish neighborhoods. Yeah, that's it.
They are. THere are ground-based radar systems that monitor trajectories of earth-orbit objects. While their fundamental goal is to catch launch of ICBM's and other missiles, they do keep an eye for space junk that might hit the ISS. Of course, radars can only resolve objects of some minimum size, so at least the ISS can be forewarned of the big chunks.
In the 2000 US elections (ie, the famous Bush/Gore embarassment), there were of course the major players. THen there are state elections, and then local elections.
There are weird positions, like electing 5 city councilmen, Alderman at Large, and other obscure positions. But you don't just vote for 1, you vote for 5 or more, out of a pool of 20. Who the hell researches all these positions?
By the time you're past president, governor, and mayor, beyond maybe knowing a few city council people (I have met two of them personally where I live), people just usually mark the rest along party lines.
Just for principle, I don't do that, but switch and swap. I really don't like the 2-party system, though I sway closer to the democrat side.
I had the TRS-80 and was teaching myself BASIC, mostly from figuring out how other programs worked. My friends had C-64's and Apple-II's, and I longed for color. But I was busy programming and tweaking instead.
Actually, they were just waiting around, trying to make Brian, the talking dog, "more proactive" and more like "the original dog from hell". And of course firing any writers that questioned them in the process...
Also applies to the number of movies about how the nazis killed Jews as opposed to the number of movies about how the nazis killed gypsies: Not many gypsie movie makers...
So you are trying to logically conclude that "The Jews" censored the family guy based upon your "data" point that there are more Jewish/Holocaust movies (that YOU know about, at least) vs. Gypsy/Holocaust movies?
Oh wait, it must be true. Seth Green is a Jew, and he does the voice for Chris. Yeah, and he plays Scott Evil. Yeah, another proof that Jews are trying to control the world, and put laser beams on sharks to boot.
Don't forget Stewie teething. It's my favorite Stewie dialog. I only saw it once many years ago, but it goes something like this.
closeup of stewie's mouth. A tooth pops up through the gums.
Tooth 1 : I declare this mouth in the name of incisor. Another tooth pops through the gums
Tooth 1 : Ach, bicuspid! My Nemesis!
Tooth 2 : Incisor! I shall kill you now. teeth wriggle for a few seconds, making no progress on their death wishes
Tooth 2 : Oh well. On the count of three, bite the tongue.
Jordan offers citizenship to any Palestinian refugee that wants to move there.
Besides that, you're confusing voluntary immigration to Israel with FORCED eviction from a country.
I'm sorry you don't want to consider that Jews were evicted from those "innocent" Arab countries. I guess it distorts the perfect black/white good/bad simplistic view of the conflict you have.
I was just going to ask about that. Claiming the land immediately around the flag as one's own is pretty obvious, but how did they draw the lines?
Did someone have to walk all the way to the Mississippi and put a flag there to claim it? Or did someone say, "I claim this land and all land to the 90th meridian, between the 35th and 40th parallels, to be Frungyland." (named after the esteemed sport, of course).
If Israel must accept a right of return, then Palestine must as well. If the Jewish settlers are to be evicted from their homes in West Bank and Gaza, then one should admit that this act is ethnic cleansing, and also denies any right of return for Palestinians.
Finally, if Israel is racist by nature as a Jewish state, that is a perfectly acceptable statement as long as one considers all Islamic states equally racist by nature.
Seriously, there is nothing unique about Israel compared to the other members of the Arab League, in terms of racist laws or human rights records. But to see such disproportionate criticism and aggression against it are very illogical indeed.
People on the far left and the far right are basically one and the same, with the following differences.
The far right will let their own government and allies get away with that which they criticize foreign governments for.
The far left will let foreign governments get away with that which they criticize their own government and allies.
Far leftists justify this by saying, "One should criticize their country more than foreign countries". True, but leftists also criticize Israel way way more than they criticize Israel's neighbors for doing far worse atrocities.
You're blinded by propoganda, showing evil white people killing the poor little brown people.
Dude, not even close. People keep trying to make this into a racial issue when it's not.
Have you ever seen pictures of Arafat or any other Palestinians? They're all just as white as most European and Arab Jews.
I don't know about other countries, but in the US, Middle Eastern peoples are included under the Caucasian category. But besides that, Palestinians are just as white as most other people are.
No, this can't be reduced to a simple color-of-skin argument, which is what some people try to do (calling it an Apartheid Wall, for example).
You're either a racist or an idiot. I'll give you the chance to pick which you are.
Jordan has a law preventing Jews from becoming citizens. PA has a little-known law preventing any Jew from owning land (under penalty of death, to boot).
Either admit you're an idiot for not knowing these facts (probably due to your pro-Palestinian media sources).
Or admit you're racist, in that it's okay to discriminate against Jews, but not okay if Jews discriminate against non-Jews.
Slashdot Mirror
Who was it that said something like the following:
In the 1950's everybody was saying "Jews, go to Israel.".
Nowadays people are yelling "Jews, out of Israel".
Oh, you mean like Palestinian suicide bombers?
What?
Uggh, this is what happens when people get all their Israel/Palestine news from electronicintifada.com.
And please justify your statistic that 19% of Arabs in Israel can vote, it seems highly misleading to me (yada yada yada lies damn lies statistics).
I hope you hate Saudi Arabia as much as Israel, because they are even more pro-Islam than Israel is pro-Jewish. In fact, other religions cannot be legally and openly practiced there.
But hey, why criticize any other country, Israel is the only bad player in the Middle East.
so, what's your point? The average Palestinian is richer than the average aboriginal Bushman tribe member.
I guess the difference between Palestinians and Israelis is that when the Israeli immigrants came who were kicked out of their homes in other Arab and European countries, they got on with their lives and worked hard.
Most Palestinians, it seems, would rather destroy their own lives wallowing in sewage mudholes, hoping to get back arbitrary land most of them have never lived in, than move on with their lives.
Jordan has offered citizenship to any Palestinian, but most choose not to get on with their lives.
The daily water use of a Zionist is six times that of a Palestinian. If the Jews had to pay for it, instead of taking it by force, the economic disparities would be reversed within a decade.
Interesting, you only compare Israel and Palestine. Why not Jordan and Palestine, or Egypt and Palestine, on this same statistic?
Anyway, Israelis are paying Egypt for water in new agreements. But I wouldn't expect clueless leftists who hate Israel more than they love Palestine to actually be interested in real news.
I was expressing sarcasm because the concept of 'rich Jews, poor exploited Palestinians' is perpetrated so often many 'enlightened' folk actually believe it.
Where are the death camps?
If you think Israel is perpetrating its own Holocause, are you man enough to admit also acknowledge that Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan are as well?
most people currently claiming to be "Jewish" are from the Caucasian Ashkenazi.
Are you from the US?
There are more Sephardic Jews in Israel than Ashkenazic. And there's a significant population of Israeli Jews that are Arab Jews, ie from Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc.
And your comment about Orthodox Rabbis being critical of the modern Israeli state, I wouldn't count on them being your anti-Israel allies. In most cases, these Rabbis are just as fanatical as the pro-settlement Rabbis. The difference is how the two interpret one section of Jewish scripture. The anti-Israel Rabbis interpret it to mean that Jews should wait for G-d's return in the diaspora, instead of the holy land. If they interpreted the scripture to mean to remain in Jerusalem, you'd bet all these Rabbis would instantly change their opinion.
You're demonstrating your great ignorance here.
Zionism is merely the belief that Jews have a right to have a Jewish state.
Zionism in itself is absolutely no more racist than the belief by Muslims that there can exist Muslim states, or Christians for a Christian state, etc.
As the subsequent poster said, zealots have hijacked Zionism, so now general people such as yourself think it means the right to create a Jewish state, kick out anybody else who's not Jewish, etc. This is NOT what Zionism is, please don't confuse these two.
And while you're making comparisons to White Supremecism, let's acknowledge that this is what many Arab Supremacists do. Look at Hamas. They will not let any non-Arab outsider immigrate to their land, and will wear masks and terrorize them until they're either dead or gone. Exactly the same as the KKK.
The interesting thing is that while liberals strongly denounce the KKK and its efforts to create an ethnically-pure free-of-outsiders white Christian culture. But at the same time many liberals strongly support xenophobic Arab supremacists that won't let non-Arabs immigrate to their land and contaminate their ethnically-pure Arab culture.
Well,then, the similarities between the Arab states and South Africa should be even more illuminating.
Going after Israel for its "apartheid" is like dragging someone with 5 speeding tickets to court, and ignoring all that person's neighbors with 2 counts of DUI.
Arabs in Israel have orders of magnitude more rights than corresponding Jews in Arab countries. Maybe the equality isn't perfect, but it's damn better than Jews.
Look at Jordan. What is it's Jewish population? ZERO! Not even a few Jews scattered about. NO JEWS AT ALL! Talk about ethnic cleansing. In fact, Jews are explicitly forbidden from becoming citizens of Jordan.
But hey, lets instead argue that Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem don't have as well-tended streets as rich Jewish neighborhoods. Yeah, that's it.
They are. THere are ground-based radar systems that monitor trajectories of earth-orbit objects. While their fundamental goal is to catch launch of ICBM's and other missiles, they do keep an eye for space junk that might hit the ISS. Of course, radars can only resolve objects of some minimum size, so at least the ISS can be forewarned of the big chunks.
In the 2000 US elections (ie, the famous Bush/Gore embarassment), there were of course the major players. THen there are state elections, and then local elections.
There are weird positions, like electing 5 city councilmen, Alderman at Large, and other obscure positions. But you don't just vote for 1, you vote for 5 or more, out of a pool of 20. Who the hell researches all these positions?
By the time you're past president, governor, and mayor, beyond maybe knowing a few city council people (I have met two of them personally where I live), people just usually mark the rest along party lines.
Just for principle, I don't do that, but switch and swap. I really don't like the 2-party system, though I sway closer to the democrat side.
I mean, why couldn't they wait until they were a few miles offshore to go supersonic.
Anybody know if there are rules (obviously specific to each country) regarding sonic wakes?
I had the TRS-80 and was teaching myself BASIC, mostly from figuring out how other programs worked. My friends had C-64's and Apple-II's, and I longed for color. But I was busy programming and tweaking instead.
Actually, they were just waiting around, trying to make Brian, the talking dog, "more proactive" and more like "the original dog from hell". And of course firing any writers that questioned them in the process...
"I didn't think she was born, but more like she congealed in a gutter somewhere."
Fucking hilarious.
So you are trying to logically conclude that "The Jews" censored the family guy based upon your "data" point that there are more Jewish/Holocaust movies (that YOU know about, at least) vs. Gypsy/Holocaust movies?
Oh wait, it must be true. Seth Green is a Jew, and he does the voice for Chris. Yeah, and he plays Scott Evil. Yeah, another proof that Jews are trying to control the world, and put laser beams on sharks to boot.
closeup of stewie's mouth. A tooth pops up through the gums.
Tooth 1 : I declare this mouth in the name of incisor.
Another tooth pops through the gums
Tooth 1 : Ach, bicuspid! My Nemesis!
Tooth 2 : Incisor! I shall kill you now.
teeth wriggle for a few seconds, making no progress on their death wishes
Tooth 2 : Oh well. On the count of three, bite the tongue.
Besides that, you're confusing voluntary immigration to Israel with FORCED eviction from a country.
I'm sorry you don't want to consider that Jews were evicted from those "innocent" Arab countries. I guess it distorts the perfect black/white good/bad simplistic view of the conflict you have.
Did someone have to walk all the way to the Mississippi and put a flag there to claim it? Or did someone say, "I claim this land and all land to the 90th meridian, between the 35th and 40th parallels, to be Frungyland." (named after the esteemed sport, of course).
that could work, as long as said property was carefully labelled as "No Trespassing."
If Israel must accept a right of return, then Palestine must as well. If the Jewish settlers are to be evicted from their homes in West Bank and Gaza, then one should admit that this act is ethnic cleansing, and also denies any right of return for Palestinians.
Finally, if Israel is racist by nature as a Jewish state, that is a perfectly acceptable statement as long as one considers all Islamic states equally racist by nature.
Seriously, there is nothing unique about Israel compared to the other members of the Arab League, in terms of racist laws or human rights records. But to see such disproportionate criticism and aggression against it are very illogical indeed.
People on the far left and the far right are basically one and the same, with the following differences.
The far right will let their own government and allies get away with that which they criticize foreign governments for.
The far left will let foreign governments get away with that which they criticize their own government and allies.
Far leftists justify this by saying, "One should criticize their country more than foreign countries". True, but leftists also criticize Israel way way more than they criticize Israel's neighbors for doing far worse atrocities.
Dude, not even close. People keep trying to make this into a racial issue when it's not.
Have you ever seen pictures of Arafat or any other Palestinians? They're all just as white as most European and Arab Jews.
I don't know about other countries, but in the US, Middle Eastern peoples are included under the Caucasian category. But besides that, Palestinians are just as white as most other people are.
No, this can't be reduced to a simple color-of-skin argument, which is what some people try to do (calling it an Apartheid Wall, for example).
Jordan has a law preventing Jews from becoming citizens. PA has a little-known law preventing any Jew from owning land (under penalty of death, to boot).
Either admit you're an idiot for not knowing these facts (probably due to your pro-Palestinian media sources).
Or admit you're racist, in that it's okay to discriminate against Jews, but not okay if Jews discriminate against non-Jews.