...the pressure of dealing with deadlines with serious consequences for failure is just how the real world works...
Only if they choose to put themselves in that situation. I managed to avoid it with some thought and planning and I don't live in a box. I guess I should thank school though for teaching me how much I hate stress.
But again, you can't be sure if the guy's goals can be reached by going to college. In his situation it sounds more like a hinderance than a help. Not everyone should go to college. Especially people who don't want to go.
Maybe he'll get some certs, work five years, and decide he hates working in office environments. He'd be way ahead of the game going that route than getting a four year degree, then working five years and finding he hates offices. He'd have no debt, he'll have built up some networth, and he'll have done what he wanted, not what people warned him he should do less he tempt certain failure by !GASP! not doing what everyone else is doing.
And if he wants to go to one of those he should. But it seems whenever any high school kid dares utter the words, 'I think maybe I won't go to college', he gets pounced on like he just announced he's taking up heroine and starting a career as a mercenary. Many parents would be happier if their kid did study something not befitting of a career at a four year school rather than try to start a career right out of high school because that's what everyone else's kid is doing; going to college. It's comfortable and safe and so people sell it like it's the path to happiness. And I'm trying to weigh against that tide. Not everyone should go to school. Especially people who don't want to.
Clearly you're intelligent, you have a plan, you don't want to go to school. Try as hard as you can not to let them talk you into doing something you don't want to. The ranks of drop outs are filled with people who ended up wasting 2 years with nothing to show of it but some debt and bad memories.
If you don't want to go to school, don't. You would just be wasting time.
So then you admit you were wrong and getting a degree actually can hurt.
My point was that here you are beating the popular drum and saying 'go to school, nothing but good can come from it'. So I just offered up a scenario where, clearly, bad things could come from it. The problem is guys who think maybe they don't want to go to school (like the OP) get bullied with the cliché you keep hollering at him that he's got nothing to lose when in fact he does.
Maybe he doesn't want a career. Maybe he's entrepreneurial. Maybe he lives a monastic life. Maybe he just hates school environments and dreads the idea of going through four more years of it.
If any of those are the case and he's not just another drone who can't stand risk levels any higher than crossing the street then why shouldn't he take an unconventional leap? Fortune favors the bold.
Well then double isn't enough. How about quadruple? I guarantee if it hit $8/gallon you would see some serious car-pooling, car-tuning, bicycling, high prices for used metros, suv's being given away.
At some point people would stop buying it. They would switch to alcohol fuels or go electric. Which would lead to increases in electric rates and then people putting up PV panels because it's cheaper than the grid.
But anyway, at some point it will cost more to drive to work than is gained in a working day.
I personally don't believe it is for anyone here to tell someone what to do.
Hear hear. The problem with giving/getting advice like this is that everyone has different end goals in mind. Some people want to settle down with a family and a steady job. Some people will be single into their 50's and want to travel while they work. Other people just want to get out of the rat race by the time they're 30.
To tell somebody they 'have to go to school' to be succesful when that person's goal is to retire as a landlord by the time they're 26 so they can write all day is ridiculous. Or to tell someone who wants to be CEO one day that a college degree is worthless is equally ridiculous. People are cut out for different lifestyles. Some people want BMW's, some people want leisure, some people want kids.
As someone with a somewhat unorthodox lifestyle what makes me happy would likely make many people miserable and visa-versa.
The best advice you can give kids like this is to tell them to inform themselves about all the options and their consequences, don't listen to pat, clichéd answers without caution. And in the end do what you want to do. Not what you perceive as the safest route or the best route to attain some kind of homogeneous leave-it-to-beaver lifestyle.
My experience landed my a $55K a year job upon graduation. What will your High School Diploma get you?
His diploma won't get him anything. But if he's smart, ambitious, and actually wants a job that pays that much then I'd wager he could get it with some tenacity and a touch of luck.
It's no thing to make a lot of money if all you aim to do is make a lot of money.
I don't know that it can't hurt. Ask the guy with an M.A. in History who decides he doesn't much care for writing books or teaching how much his $120k debt is helping him in his $40k/year job.
I believe the implication was that the said person dropped out and so never attained a degree.
But perhaps that's what people mean when they say college 'proves you can stick to something.' Basically meaning it filters out A) stupid people and B) people who refuse to put up with bullshit, no matter how many shiny things you dangle in front of them.
Assuming it's an option for you without too many negative consequences.
Like being in the red by $100,000+
School is often a good option but it has to be approached pragmatically. People say 'go to school' like it's the cure-all, the silver bullet, but it isn't. Coming out of an Ivy League with a BA in Art History might make you happier and more fun to be around, but you'd probably have seen a better financial return on the tuition money had you smartly invested it in real estate. On the other hand; get an engineering degree from a state school and those tuition dollars will likely have a very good ROI.
It sounds to me like this guy doesn't want to go to school. Good for him, take a stab at the IT sector with just some certifications and see how you do. You can always enroll at a college later if you really want to. Better than going to a school you don't really want to be at only to drop out two and a half years later with absolutely no certifications and $20k in student loans.
Find some personal finance blogs of people who are just starting their post-college careers in $45k/year jobs with $100k+ of student loan debt looming over them. They followed the 'go to school' advice to study things they liked like psychology, history, mathematics, political science or english. Then they get hit with the bill six months after graduation and wonder if it was worth it.
But you have to follow your heart. Maybe spending four years reading about and studying art surrounded by similarly-impassioned people really is worth $100,000 of debt to some people. But don't let people pressure you into going blindly into an unwise situation with their oft-repeated 'go to school' mantra that seems to preach that there is never any harm in going to college; because sometimes there is.
How about increasing the gas tax then? It would promote lifestyles like yours where you drive infrequently and also would make the college kid who drives 100 miles in a weekend not even think about getting an SUV. Best of both worlds. People get taxed for what they use not how they use it.
I propose revenues be used to lower some other tax.
If he's willing to relocate it's certainly possible to become a minority in short order just by changing your surroundings. For example: Non-hispanic whites are a minority in several U.S. Cities. - If that happens to be his situation.
I've seen primates using sticks as 'fishing poles' to pull termites out from logs. Sure looked like a tool to me. That was about five years ago on PBS.
Some of the most anti-authority, anti-cop, anti-government people in the world are here participating in this forum and even they don't buy your story. You expect less skepticism from the local news station?
Get some audio clips, some video, some transcripts, put up a web site and then we'll listen.
Slashdot Mirror
not some prissy little four-cylinder transverse-mount crap
HEY!
Who knew Andy Rooney was a slashdotter?
May as well learn to suck it up now.
Or figure out a way to go without one. It is possible. Just harder.
...the pressure of dealing with deadlines with serious consequences for failure is just how the real world works...
Only if they choose to put themselves in that situation. I managed to avoid it with some thought and planning and I don't live in a box. I guess I should thank school though for teaching me how much I hate stress.
Life's hard, little folks. Deal with it.
Life's what you want it to be.
But again, you can't be sure if the guy's goals can be reached by going to college. In his situation it sounds more like a hinderance than a help. Not everyone should go to college. Especially people who don't want to go.
Maybe he'll get some certs, work five years, and decide he hates working in office environments. He'd be way ahead of the game going that route than getting a four year degree, then working five years and finding he hates offices. He'd have no debt, he'll have built up some networth, and he'll have done what he wanted, not what people warned him he should do less he tempt certain failure by !GASP! not doing what everyone else is doing.
And if he wants to go to one of those he should. But it seems whenever any high school kid dares utter the words, 'I think maybe I won't go to college', he gets pounced on like he just announced he's taking up heroine and starting a career as a mercenary. Many parents would be happier if their kid did study something not befitting of a career at a four year school rather than try to start a career right out of high school because that's what everyone else's kid is doing; going to college. It's comfortable and safe and so people sell it like it's the path to happiness. And I'm trying to weigh against that tide. Not everyone should go to school. Especially people who don't want to.
Clearly you're intelligent, you have a plan, you don't want to go to school. Try as hard as you can not to let them talk you into doing something you don't want to. The ranks of drop outs are filled with people who ended up wasting 2 years with nothing to show of it but some debt and bad memories.
If you don't want to go to school, don't. You would just be wasting time.
So then you admit you were wrong and getting a degree actually can hurt.
My point was that here you are beating the popular drum and saying 'go to school, nothing but good can come from it'. So I just offered up a scenario where, clearly, bad things could come from it. The problem is guys who think maybe they don't want to go to school (like the OP) get bullied with the cliché you keep hollering at him that he's got nothing to lose when in fact he does.
Maybe he doesn't want a career. Maybe he's entrepreneurial. Maybe he lives a monastic life. Maybe he just hates school environments and dreads the idea of going through four more years of it.
If any of those are the case and he's not just another drone who can't stand risk levels any higher than crossing the street then why shouldn't he take an unconventional leap? Fortune favors the bold.
Well then double isn't enough. How about quadruple? I guarantee if it hit $8/gallon you would see some serious car-pooling, car-tuning, bicycling, high prices for used metros, suv's being given away.
At some point people would stop buying it. They would switch to alcohol fuels or go electric. Which would lead to increases in electric rates and then people putting up PV panels because it's cheaper than the grid.
But anyway, at some point it will cost more to drive to work than is gained in a working day.
I personally don't believe it is for anyone here to tell someone what to do.
Hear hear. The problem with giving/getting advice like this is that everyone has different end goals in mind. Some people want to settle down with a family and a steady job. Some people will be single into their 50's and want to travel while they work. Other people just want to get out of the rat race by the time they're 30.
To tell somebody they 'have to go to school' to be succesful when that person's goal is to retire as a landlord by the time they're 26 so they can write all day is ridiculous. Or to tell someone who wants to be CEO one day that a college degree is worthless is equally ridiculous. People are cut out for different lifestyles. Some people want BMW's, some people want leisure, some people want kids.
As someone with a somewhat unorthodox lifestyle what makes me happy would likely make many people miserable and visa-versa.
The best advice you can give kids like this is to tell them to inform themselves about all the options and their consequences, don't listen to pat, clichéd answers without caution. And in the end do what you want to do. Not what you perceive as the safest route or the best route to attain some kind of homogeneous leave-it-to-beaver lifestyle.
My experience landed my a $55K a year job upon graduation. What will your High School Diploma get you?
His diploma won't get him anything. But if he's smart, ambitious, and actually wants a job that pays that much then I'd wager he could get it with some tenacity and a touch of luck.
It's no thing to make a lot of money if all you aim to do is make a lot of money.
I don't know that it can't hurt. Ask the guy with an M.A. in History who decides he doesn't much care for writing books or teaching how much his $120k debt is helping him in his $40k/year job.
I believe the implication was that the said person dropped out and so never attained a degree.
But perhaps that's what people mean when they say college 'proves you can stick to something.' Basically meaning it filters out A) stupid people and B) people who refuse to put up with bullshit, no matter how many shiny things you dangle in front of them.
Best advice yet.
Why go to school for four years only to work your way up a ladder for five when you could retire in seven?
Assuming it's an option for you without too many negative consequences.
Like being in the red by $100,000+
School is often a good option but it has to be approached pragmatically. People say 'go to school' like it's the cure-all, the silver bullet, but it isn't. Coming out of an Ivy League with a BA in Art History might make you happier and more fun to be around, but you'd probably have seen a better financial return on the tuition money had you smartly invested it in real estate. On the other hand; get an engineering degree from a state school and those tuition dollars will likely have a very good ROI.
It sounds to me like this guy doesn't want to go to school. Good for him, take a stab at the IT sector with just some certifications and see how you do. You can always enroll at a college later if you really want to. Better than going to a school you don't really want to be at only to drop out two and a half years later with absolutely no certifications and $20k in student loans.
Find some personal finance blogs of people who are just starting their post-college careers in $45k/year jobs with $100k+ of student loan debt looming over them. They followed the 'go to school' advice to study things they liked like psychology, history, mathematics, political science or english. Then they get hit with the bill six months after graduation and wonder if it was worth it.
But you have to follow your heart. Maybe spending four years reading about and studying art surrounded by similarly-impassioned people really is worth $100,000 of debt to some people. But don't let people pressure you into going blindly into an unwise situation with their oft-repeated 'go to school' mantra that seems to preach that there is never any harm in going to college; because sometimes there is.
How about increasing the gas tax then? It would promote lifestyles like yours where you drive infrequently and also would make the college kid who drives 100 miles in a weekend not even think about getting an SUV. Best of both worlds. People get taxed for what they use not how they use it.
I propose revenues be used to lower some other tax.
2) Being unselfish enough to have had children.
Please.
If he's willing to relocate it's certainly possible to become a minority in short order just by changing your surroundings. For example: Non-hispanic whites are a minority in several U.S. Cities. - If that happens to be his situation.
I've seen primates using sticks as 'fishing poles' to pull termites out from logs. Sure looked like a tool to me. That was about five years ago on PBS.
Yeah, during the first post I was confusing the MacBook and the MacBook Pro (evidently also funny humor with bad humor).
But when he came back at me with curses the second post was just a half-hearted attempt to infuriate him more.
I don't have the energy to refute all of the points in Tony Blair's response...
Then I guess he wins.
Some of the most anti-authority, anti-cop, anti-government people in the world are here participating in this forum and even they don't buy your story. You expect less skepticism from the local news station?
Get some audio clips, some video, some transcripts, put up a web site and then we'll listen.
He said 'assert control over' the land, you said, 'claim' the land. Two different things.