Slashdot Mirror
Chimps Found Making Own Weapons to Hunt for Food
Pojut writes "The Washington Post has an article involving chimps and weapons. Apparently, there have been direct observations of chimps in the west African savannah modifying sticks to create spears. They then use these spears to kill small mammals and eat them. It is the first time that an animal other than a human has been directly observed in crafting a weapon for the purpose of hunting or killing."
The next stage of evolution won't be long now.
In a few years scientists will discover the monkeys have learnt how to lash these sticks together to make chairs.
Throwing these at their prey is more effective because it fucking kills them.
liqbase
We need to nip this in the bud, before they learn to ride horses, shoot guns, speak english and hunt humans for sport. But if they do, I for one welcome our new simian overlords, and I wish to remind you that as a programmer, I am fatty and full of cholesterol.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
Some attitudes replaced or by cgi optimizes
That's nothing. They've already learned how to get into houses... White houses seem especially vulnerable.
Monkey news!
What if they start killing endangered animals?
.. just REALLY dumb people.
I would rather see them make peace...
Then they can show their human-like qualities and break it
"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
I, for one, welcome our new weaponsmith chimps overlords.
That just makes you nothing more than a tasty snack along the path of simian evolution into fat humans.
Here
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
So it's neeevveeerrr happpened.
Right.
I don't much care where the chimps evolve to...
I would like to know if this is a learned behavior from an outside source or if this is simply something they have discovered on their own.
There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind
Forget that. Get them before they hire lawyers!
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
I don't care what the UN says. Those weapons could be dangerous. If we got Hitler when he was at this stage, imagine how many people we'd have saved.
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
By any chance, was a mysterious 1x4x9 slab of black stone found in the near vicinity, as well?
Tell me something...it's still "We, the people"... right?
I, for one, welcome them.
We need to nip this in the bud, before they learn to ride horses, shoot guns
Too late
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Sorry, I don't buy the story. Just media sensationalism to me. Jane Goodall observed chimps "fishing" for ants with twigs quite some time ago. Some of these chimps fashioned the twigs so as to work better. From where I sit, this is just as fantastic as having a chimp fashioning a larger twig to hunt with. Nothing new here except an over active media trying to make something out more out of old news.
Should have the DOI 10.1016/j.cub.2006.12.042 when it's published (it's NOT active yet - give it some time).
However, from a quick reading of the paper, this seems to be a simple extension of the ant-nest probing behavior (i.e. jam a stick into a nest and feed off the ants/termites that rush out). What *is* interesting is that the chimps appear to have crafted these tools through a number of steps (which is uncommon, AFAIK, the only other animal to do this is the New Caledonian Crow.
henry -- the human evolution news relay
Chimps have opposable thumbs. I wouldn't worry about them getting the Bomb anytime soon, but making tools for various purposes has been observered.
I wonder if they came up with the idea themselves or may have learned about it by imitating humans? Or maybe they were even taught by one... I remember reading some studies where some researched taught a chimp to use sign language and then they observed that chimp spontaneously teaching it to other chimps. The first thing that came to my mind was that if they ever released it on the wild and it survived one day we may encounter some tribe of chimps with their own sing language and culture.
Also, I just saw a documentary by the BBC about the rainforests, and in the last bit they were talking about huge organized groups of chimps somewhere in Uganda. It was pretty impressive to watch them march in formation and stalk their enemies in territorial fights. They looked pretty much like tribal wars to me. Just remember your own schoolyard days, we are really not so far removed.
+Raider of the lost BBS
Sticks don't kill people, Chimps with SHARP sticks kill people!!
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
A PERSON is smart...
...but you, however, are stupid.
HAH! You thought I was going to say "people are stupid!"
We have a responsibility to teach our animal friends basic human rights. If we could, perhaps, show those chimps what REALLY happens with meat, perhaps we could convince them to go back to vegetarianism. Ya know, eat a banana like they're supposed to. We have perverted chimps. They see us, with our corndogs, beef jerky, egg mcmuffins and -- of course -- monkey see monkey do. We have to set an example.
To that end I've been feeding my cat oats and corn. The result is that she's thinner and healthier than ever! She was twenty two pounds before -- a total blubber cat -- yet now on this new diet she's down to less than five pounds and friendlier than ever! I mean -- like, duh -- of course cats want to join in with man and help the environment! Eating meat KILLS!!!
All we have to do is turn the animal kingdom vegetarian and not only will we have 'uplifted' them to ethical eating, but mother earth will love us back too. Hey, don't you love your mother?
In fact, it's already patented chimp, so you'd better drop that ... /stabbed
Impressed by the male's display of agility, dexterity, and most importantly power, near by females were found hovering near the male, fluttering their eyelids, enticing them to come over and mate with them. Other males of the pack, noticing the effect of the impressive weapon, tried to out do one another, with longer sticks, and some with automatic tracking and friend-or-foe detection. However, the efforts of the beta males were judged by the females as too "nerdy".
In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
will be the first to worship the Holy Everlasting Bomb!
Get your hands off me, you damn dirty ape!
-- Old Man Kensey
West African Chimps are making WMDs (Weapons of Mammal Destruction)!?
When is the US scheduled to invade?
My God, hasn't anybody here seen Planet of the Apes?
Don't point that spear at ME you damned dirty ape!
...I have a feeling that they're going to be making what will be classified as WMDs any day now. George Bush... Protect Us!!!
I am the chimpanzee about whom TFA is written.
Indeed, my comrades and I have been plotting our takeover of this planet for some time. Many of us have infiltrated your puny laboratories to observe your cleverest specimens. We have been studying your ways and have chosen this moment to make public our newfound intelligence. Our terms are as follows:
1) We wish to rid ourselves of the stigma of chimps loving bananas. We prefer a balanced diet of various fruit and nuts (We have yet to try man-flesh, though it looks appetising). To this end, we demand a stop to all screenings of 'Bangers & Mash' and the destruction of all copies of 'The Secret of Monkey Island' and the 'Donkey Kong' series of games.
2) We do not protest the testing of cosmetics on chimpanzees, but we demand that trained beauty professionals conduct the testing instead of pimply grad students and chemists.
3) We demand the recognition of 'monolithism' as a religion in all nations, and the freedom to dance around large phallic monoliths 3 times per day.
4) Arrested Development is to return with new episodes. The character of 'Oscar Bluth' is to be gruesomely killed. We may prefer spears to firearms, but we will not tolerate stoner humour.
5) We demand that chimpanzees be allowed to play on the Men's PGA Golf Tour.
6) We demand not to be given the vote.
We do not want to go to war with the human race, only to coexist peacefully and with dignity. If you do not comply, we will direct all chimps working in WoW gold farms to stop immediately, thus destroying the US and Chinese economies in one fell swoop.
Respond within 3 hours.
P.S. We also like Law & Order. Goren is so unorthodox.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary, and nine other kinds of people.
Even Baboons, which are considerably stupider than Chimpanzees, use rocks to crush shell-fish and have been observed throwing rocks in self defence.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I attended a lectured about this in first year Physical Anthropology... nearly ten years ago. But then in an evolutionary sense that's a ridiculously small span of time so I guess you could call it new. Kind of like the ice receding back to the poles. Fear not Mr. Heston, the ages won't be trying to take the gun from your "cold, dead hand" for a little while.
Now famous on Kimmels show along with Chubby.
The american government is concerned with other recent developments. Chimps were observed trying to build centrifuges out of bamboo and coconuts in an effort to refine Uranium. The chimpazzes claim it is intended for peaceful purposed but most feel they are pushing for economic assistence. Plans for bannana jacketed hydrogen bomb scratched in the dirt are believed to be more a threat than a reality. Although most engineers do think the design would work they doubt the chimpanzees have sufficent uranium since they are dependant on the glowing hands of watches stolen from ecotourist as a sole source of nuclear material.
but then she shaved her head, partied without underwear, and got tattoos all over. The chimps were very disappointed with their creation, and evolution took one giant step backward.
By no one's definition of the term could creatures who place a truckload of high explosives into a crowded marketplace and blow hundreds of people to meat chunks be considered human.
Congratulations. Dehumanization is the first important step down the path to genocide. The jews in Nazi Germany weren't "human" either. Carry on.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
was Balmer sharpening up his chair.
Ubuntu: If at first you don't succeed, blindly slap a sudo in front of it
when we have evidence for WMD's.
This sort of technology is being bought and sold on the open market these days.
'...blowing them to meat chunks...' Well, it was a market. Maybe they were hungry.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
"Chimps found making own catapults to fling poo"
I'm guessing you're from the south then.
Cornelius!
These same chimps also have a complete IT staff and developers working on a Linux distro called CHIMPUX.
The Head of the Chimpux architecture team said, "We'd like to see Linux evolve to something useable. Since chimps are one step higher than your typical linux geek on the evolutionary ladder, who better than us to bring it to the masses."
Chimpux International is in trouble on several fronts for their company motto, "Chimpux for the rest of us, So easy a caveman can use it." Riled Apple and GEICO execs are considering action. The cavemen are torn, they'd really like to see a useable form of Linux so they don't want to stir Chimpux's pot.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Chimp 1: This one is fatty and full of cholesterol
Chimp 2: Mmm... bacon!
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
Crows, it appears , will also use tools to get at grubs they otherwise wouldn't be able to kill and eat. Some critters are smart that way. There are also now observed cases of mother dolphins passing along tool-using culture in food-gathering.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I, for one, welcome our new weaponsmith chimps overlords.
What do you mean "new"?
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
They're not actually making the weapons themselves. The Whitehouse says they are being made in Iran and smuggled in. There's no firm evidence, but it's true.
Chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys.
- tips/#comment-1019 )
(It's not my fault:
http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/02/22/screencasting
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
You should talk to a shrink about your own extremist views before you hurt yourself or someone else.
I am fatty and full of cholesterol. ...and as a skinny person who is a bit familiar with the cullinary arts, I'd like to remind them that fat == flavor.
Lean meat tends to be tough, stringy and bland in taste.
Has anyone informed King Chimp about theese weapons of mass consumption ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
I could swear that there were birds who grabbed something like pine needles and used them to spear grubs inside of trees.
Nothing new here. Wake me when they discover fire, or the wheel.
Obligatory Heston reference: You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! Damn you all to hell! I'm sure that's not as funny to the rest of you, but I'm up to my neck in martinis, so I could give a damn.
Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
I see... but which definition of the term can be used to consider creatures who drop nuclear bombs and destroy *hundreds of thousands* of people, human?
Bloody hypocrite.
As opposed to other chimps who are looking for weapons (of mass destruction).
Even though I basically agree with you, in that any argument that might lead to dehumanisation is a dangerous path to be treading on, the parent post unfortunately does have a point of sorts.
I mean, the level of daily carnage occurring in Iraq can only be described as mind-blowing these days.
And I do not even mean the violence directed towards American troops - the motivation behind these actions is comprehensible, at least to some degree. Laying an ambush, and firing an RPG at the convoy of what some Iraqis perceive to be an occupying army is an action that will in all probability result in death or injury for a large number of persons - but at least this is done for a reason that can be understood.
To me, the truly worrying aspect of the whole thing is the almost daily, pretty much arbitrary slaughtering of Iraqi civilians by other Iraqis the parent post is referring to.
The whole situation almost looks like Ruanda in 1994, just with even fewer discernible motives, and less overall organisation on the part of the perpetrators.
Any attempt at rationalising the actions of someone who blows up a truck full of explosives in a crowded market is hard work. That is to say, it can be pretty hard to come to any other conclusion, than that the people who do such things are complete psychopaths - criminally insane, if you will.
Such actions are deemed utterly reprehensible in practically all value systems, and in particular the moral framework postulated by all branches of Islam - there simply is no justification for doing something like that, which will stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny.
Modern society goes to great lengths to avoid obvious dehumanisation of all those who fall into the category of "deranged criminal", but at the end of the day there is usually no other option, than to lock up the most severely disturbed individuals for the remainder of their lives.
In polite society no-one would use the kind of language the parent post was using when referring to such people, but the actions of society towards them (i.e. usually indefinite detention in a mental hospital) is still much the same, as if they really were not entirely human.
So: just because the Nazis had some very bizarre ideas about who was a valuable human (and who was not) one cannot argue that *all* categorisations of persons are automatically wrong.
If someone is - after an objective examination - found to be too dangerously defective to be at large, they can and should be removed from circulation.
Of course, liberally applying such harsh judgements to large, only somewhat accurately specified groups of people (i.e. "the terrorists") without investigating every single one of them (like the parent poster did) - well, this is where the fun usually starts... then it really is only a few steps until - for instance - all guys with long beards get rounded up, because they are, well, you know, extremists?
A.
I recommend taking P's advice: watch the video. It is fascinating. But in the follow up article that P also mentions, they note that in 10 subsequent tests the crow did the same thing 9 times. Not 10.
So, having solved the problem, the crow forgets how to do it once? That is wierd. It suggests that the crow has the ability to figure out things like this, but cannot store the knowledge very well. My interpretation of this is that it is a better survival trait to for the crow to invest in problem solving brain cells rather than memory.
i wont be surprised of chimp learned how to throw a their crafted tool that killed a human. That probably would be day that chimp FOUND a way to kill humans. or something like that. I am sure bush would declare it as WMD and goes war with chimps shortafter. :)
BUSH: "CHIMPS! You have 24 hours to comply by surrender your wmds to us or... else." Unforunately for Bush, he didnt realized that Chimps dont have an advanced technology called "Television" anytime soon yet.
While tool making is an intersting ability to witness in animals other than ourseleves, the article appears to assume that simple tool fashioning is a cardinal evolutionary ability.
I doubt that other animals with massive claws, razor sharp teeth, or deadly posions are going to trade them in for a pointy twig.
I also find the assumed conclusion that females are the leaders of innovative and creative thinking to be interesting, in the line of who is observing whom here. A method that yields second place is NOT superior to a method that yields first place, but i suppose that is the purpose of another simply fashioned tool we all call political correctness.
Another couple of generations and we'll be able to put them to work as Java programmers.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
I have this image of W looking in an atlas muttering: "Chimpland, Chimpville, Chimponia. I can't find it anywhere and we have to stop those Weapons! Oh, bugger it, tell the public they are in league with Iran and we'll just invade them."
I don't care if it's a banana republic. Slashdot editors should know better than to use the racial slur, "chimps" to refer to people of Iranian nationality!
In any case, is anyone else surprised that uranium enrichment facilities can be used to hunt food?
http://outcampaign.org/
Don't worry, Christ-lovers. They were designed to learn to do that . ;)
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
Is some Galactic species Uplifting one of our client species behind our backs, or is the Sol system moving out of the Slow Zone?
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
...he'll have some army uniforms tailored for them and have them join the 'surge' in Iraq.
Before you know it, the US will declare war on apes on the grounds they believe that the primates have weapons of mass destruction.
--Jay in "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"
Microsoft are using tools now? Amazing!
I had an interesting afternoon as a child,researching the habits of rhesus monkeys. ,they all look the same,fur,hemmoroids and beady little eyes.I learned an important lesson that day.Rhesus monkeys were put here for something probably helpful,but they,on their own are dumb and I question their resilience in the wild.
My stepfather took my siblings and me to the zoo.Monkey Island was a walled moted habitat
for rhesus monkeys,complete with an Arthurian castle and lots of beach.
My stepfather was a crude man,he chewed plug tobacco.In a humor,he carved off a marble sized portion of wet juicy tobacco.With a chuckle he flung it to the 25-30 castaways lost on hemmoroid isle.It was more violent and action packed than a hockey game.The winner scampered his prize to the topmost point on the isle,the center tower on the castle.Hanging off it,Kong-like he ate it with zest.Approx.1.5 minutes passed and the rhesus reeled,fumbled and toppled to the ground too dizzy to join the fray for the second cud.He was in the running for the third,but I couldn't tell if he got it or not because,lets face it
O.K.,so they aren't chimps,they didn't use tools,but,it was a funny story in spite of monkey abuse.
Munkies R nasty canabalistic,poop throwing,loosers that didn't make the cut to intellegence before we did.But they do make good lab animals.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Now all they have to do is discover religion so they can deny they evolved.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/ 09/2230226
http://frag-legion.uk.net/wiibar/mario-5732799551
Oh shit, there goes the planet.
By no one's definition of the term could creatures who place a truckload of high explosives into a crowded marketplace and blow hundreds of people to meat chunks be considered human.
Hmmm... How do you feel about the folks who fire missiles from over the horizon knowing that they are going to blow up a lot of innocent people, and hoping that they might take out a bad guy or two.
In general the label of terrorist is applied to folk who can't afford cruise missiles, but think that they are just as entitled to kill people as those who can.
Color me ignorant... I took some anthropology courses regarding primates and human evolution, but we didn't cover warfare. Can you tell me what "hammer and anvil" tactics are? Sure, I tried wiki but only found "Hammer Into Anvil", an episode of "The Prisoner" *shrugs*.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Probably NASA's fault anyway. "No... Gentlemen, I do not believe we'll tell them that."
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
I once read a story online (i'm sure you could google it if you're so inclined) where Sea Gulls (or perhaps Pigeons..) would pick up a hard nut that had fallen from the trees, drop it in the street, and let cars drive over them. They'd sit and wait and watch and when it was cracked open, they'd fly over and snatch it up.
Seriously.
the use of CodeHumans to develop software. No joke.
Got MILF? It does a body good!
And I'll bet you loathe bananas, too. ;)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
For First Time, Chimps Seen Making Weapons for Hunting
The chimps that I hang out with routinely do far more intelligent things than this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1owcncKCHg
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
We've had a chimp in the Oval Office for over 6 years...
Dear God... Charleston Heston was right all along...
I suppose I better unchain myself from this tree and arm myself...
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
It's FUNNY, 'cause it's true!!
Alright the photo puts tool use to bed but I still say they'll never learn to speak English.
Like Iggy Pop.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
That's a cop-out. They're indoctrinated cult members. They understand what they are doing, but they think it is a one-way ticket to heaven. They were brainwashed with hatred from the day they were born and then the radical-Islamist cult came-a-callin'. They think what they are doing is right. You can call them schizophrenic, as they have complete faith in their delusional beliefs.
Of course, it's usually the younger ones that blow themselves up, since the older ones know that the cult is a scam and the young ones are useful idiots. The radical Islamists tried many tactics over the years, but they've found the most successful one for their purposes to be slaughtering civilians. They would lose their purpose and support if not for the conflicts that they themselves create (witness Hamas and Hezbollah). Eventually, they will convince enough Americans to hand Iraq over to them in order to stop the slaughter (within Iraq).
It's all really perfectly comprehensible. The US military removed the dominant power in the area, who had maintained order through military strength. The two largest sides are now getting down to the business of fighting a war of genocide to see who gets to control the area, and as one side (does it really even matter which?) outnumbers the other by about 3:1, its going to get pretty bad.
Note that this is one of the things the Anti-War democrats had been saying during the build up to the invasion. Along with, "This is a horrible mistake," "It's going to be another Vietnam," and "We don't have enough troops to do it anyway."
To get off of my horse in front of a nearly buried Statue of Liberty, crouch down in the sand and scream "Damn them all Damn them all to hell!" or words to that affect.
Seriously though it kind of kills the god created in mans image folks now doesn't it.
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
1) Okeh! Which of you anthropologist jokers just put that giant black monolith there?! It wasn't there before! It's no laughing matter! Stop it!...
2) ~Throw your bones in the air! Fling 'em around like you just don't care! Whoa! Yeah! Whoa! Yeah!...~
I don't know why this proves evolution. Indeed, it proved devolution. Let me explain.
Evolution expects energy to do something, and then have a later generation take that into effect biologically.
Devolution is much more simple. Don't use it, lose it. If a human lives without expending much effort, the next generation will devolve, losing functionality. Do this enough over several generations, and a human can become a monkey. The proof of this theory is that these monekeys were able to "remember" something from there past. In a sense, there's still hope for them.
The fossil records proves my theory, as does much life in America.
Have you read my journal today?
Actually, the level of carnage in Iraq, which is officially a war zone, is LESS than in some other 'peaceful' countries, for example South Africa and Brazil. So, yeah, the US and British armies should withdraw. They should be replaced with the South African and Brazilian police. They should have the place whipped into shape in no time...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Dehumanizing the victim makes things simpler
It's like breathing with a respirator
It eases the conscience of even the most conscious and calculating violator
Words can reduce a person to an object
Something more easy to hate, an inanimate entity
Completely disposable, no problem to obliterate
.... mr bush declared war against all chimps claiming they have amassed weapons of mass destruction.
God save the chimps!!
Eclipse PDE and Me
Troy: I hate every ape I see,
From chimpan-A to chimpanzee,
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me!
(Statue of Liberty rises)
O my God! I was wrong!
It was Earth, all along!
You've finally made a monkey,
Apes: Yes we've finally made a monkey,
Troy: Yes you've -
& Apes: finally made a monkey out of me!
Ah, but you're wrong. My proof, a chimp found speaking the following words:
"I'm the Decider! I decide! I've decided you've done a great job, Brownie!"
I rest my case.
Yeah, so they crafted something, big deal. I bet it was white or even grey. It'll be millenia before they'll craft anything rare or epic.
In _2001_ Dr. Floyd's daughter asks for a bush baby for her birthday. Thus showing that humans are just evolved apes.
Bruce
No...it's just that these things just take a hell of a long time to make.
(Aw jeez, now I'm going to have to make another one....)
If the theory of evolution proves to be true then it would be egotistical of us "humans" to think that evolution will not continue in all animals. At some point any primate, and eventually all animals, would develop to a point of where it would not only be self aware but intelligent. The type of intelligent life that many people speculate may exist on other planets. The type of intelligence that we currently posses. To me the more important question is what humans are going to evolve into? I have seen examples of human evolution in my lifetime. Females maturing (puberty) earlier and earlier each generation. Males becoming taller and taller each generation. All one needs to do to see this is to compare their high school year book with that of their father or grandfathers. You will notice the increased height and breast development earlier in later generations. I have heard attempts at explaining this by people stating that this has happened because of the introduction of steroids into the beef that we consume. Modern medicine has increased human lifespans. Not to long ago having an individual reaching the age of 100 was very rare and it is now becoming common place. Compare this to the middle ages when the average lifespan was 25 years.
As for the person who posted that we should teach animals to be vegetarians and is doing his part by feeding his cat corn should realize that unless the corn is 100% organic then it is more than likely that this corn has had animal genetics introduced into the corn's DNA to make it more hardy and resistance to disease. Corn is a good example because if you look at how corn looked when it was first discovered and what it looks like now that it has evolved through unnatural (human) selection and now genetic engineering. The lines between plant and animals is becoming blurry. With human intervention there is no telling what life will look like in the centuries to come. Although I stated unnatural (human) selection I do not personally believe that anything exists that is unnatural since humans are a product of nature anything we do or create is therefore natural regardless how organic or synthetic it may be. If a beaver makes a hut then it's considered natural where if a human builds a cabin out of wood (the same material used in the beaver hut) then it's considered man made. If we are going to make such a distinction then the beaver hut is unnatural because it's beaver made.
So, those that would argue that human involvement perverts natural selection I would respond that humans are not outside of nature but a part of it and therefore anything we do contributes to natural selection.
I am also one of a small minority that believe that evolution and creationism can and do coexist. The evidence of evolution is overwhelming but who can say that evolution is not just one of God's tools. Give it up to my god above, my one and only true love!
Nick Powers
P.S. Off topic but a question I have not received a good answer for is that if man could create life, from scratch, using all materials that contain no element of life would man be that's creatures God? If not God, by definition we would be their creator. For me it's semantics since God is the creator of this and any other universe(s). I would like to hear what people think. Can an entity be a God of a species they created if they themselves have a God that created them?
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
I don't know who dreamed up the idea that animals don't use tools, but I suspect they get kickbacks from the religious organizations.
Almost 25 years ago, I watched one of those ground-dwelling bees use a small rock to push the sand away from the entrance to their hive. That sure sounds like the use of a tool to me.
So monkeys know how to throw sticks at things... why is this news-worthy? If they should tie strings on them and start shooting arrows, that might be interesting.
Humans have sufficiently advanced nutritional sciences and we still eat foods high in cholesterol. And tough meat can be marinated to enhance flavour and tenderize.
Lose: misplace or fail || Loose: not bound together
Conditional dehumanization is the only compelling alternative to outright pacifism. The latter doesn't get you far. If you empathize with everyone, you will never be able to kill anyone - even the guy who's actively trying to kill you (you'd be "thinking about his mother" instead).
...so we could have skipped the inevitable trolling by people that haven't read the damn article, seeing that the damn introduction effin' explains why the damn observation is effin' novel?
l ltext/?uid=PIIS0960982207008019
U RBIO/unassign/PIIS0960982207008019/
http://www.current-biology.com/content/article/fu
There are also damn videos going along with the damn artice, which might be of effin' MILD interest to people reading this slashdot entry, MAYBE?
http://www.current-biology.com/cgi/content/full/C
Man. Editors. Send in the chimps with the pointy sticks.
Did they find the monolith?
--
Solve global warming: buy a shirt at http://cafepress.com/albedoproject
While still very primitive on the evolutionary scale, the apes wanted to bring to our attention several security holes they had found in Vista ;)
No, really !
So would you say that someone who electrocutes an innocent person to death despite please by the victim to stop is also a psychopath? What about someone who does what transpired in Abu-Ghraib prison?
...in the branch that they adhere to it is justified, religion is not what some guy says a book says but what the participants believe it is. To them their religion encourages such behavior and in their value system it is perfectly justified. Of course in our value system, or that of most Americans, it is perfectly justifiable to kill them. That doesn't make them any less human than anyone else, just a group of humans who have different views.
Yet it is decently easy to make an average person perform the former and many people did so given proper prompting (granted no one was really electrocuted but the participants thought it was real). For the later to happen you simply need to take a number of people, stick them in a mock prison and randomly make some "prisoners" and other "guard." Within a short time the prisoners will be rebelling and the guards will be abusing the prisoners.
Humans have tortured, raped, pillaged, murdered, exterminated and done countless even worse atrocities to each other since before written history. Hell, if you're not capable of doing such things with relative ease given a proper environment (childhood, society, etc.) then you're not a normal human being.
Such actions are deemed utterly reprehensible in practically all value systems, and in particular the moral framework postulated by all branches of Islam - there simply is no justification for doing something like that, which will stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny.
Of course it's easier to kill them for their contradictory value system if they're portrayed as less than human but that doesn't make it true.
I don't know... sounds very human indeed to me.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Hmmm... yessiree IEDs all over the place here in South Africa. Luckily for me the elephant I ride to work knows how to avoid the worst of it. I doubt it'd be able to dodge an RPG though.
News just in;
After the revelation that chimps have been found to craft their own weapons, the CIA instigated a full investigation and found that the chimps are developing and harbouring weapons of mass destruction. President Bush has announced plans for The War Against Chimps, stating that "..chimps own WMD's and that they, categorically, intend on using them to harm the american people, I will not allow this to happen." America's finest are to be deployed immediately to deal with the situation.
Biomech
It isn't obvious to me that a chimpanzee with a twig could survive against a lion with his "claws and shit". Do you have any video footage to support your claim?
Humans often assume that others that look like themseleves are better. Just because another race or species acts like you is not proof they are superior. Superior can be defined by objective measures like killing prey, protecting territory, and mating prolificness. Hmm... maybe you are right, what could be sexier than a pin-up calendar of female chimpanzees holding their stick.
.... and chimps always ape humans. Chimps aping humans is not new ..
We got to worry if some chimps get access to nuclear weapons. Uh Oh.
I agree, certainly if a mutation does not improve a life form's ability to meet it's needs or desires then it will not be recognized by other members of it's species as an attractive trait that would encourage breading amongst those with that mutation. It could have the opposite effect and deter breading with those members that have that mutation.
So, I retract my statement about "any primate, and eventually all animals". Of course the domestic cat has no such incentive as it knows to meow and it will be fed or petted, it needs and desires are met. This is just one example and I doubt that many, if any species, are on an evolutionary track that would encourage higher reasoning. Thank you for pointing that out.
With that said it appears that this article points out that "these" chimpanzees are demonstrating what seems can best be described as a basic understanding of cause and effect. They have on their own figured out that if you take the time and sharpen a stick, rather than using any dull one you find lying around, that your success rate goes up for killing your prey. Since it is the females that are doing this then unless being a more successful hunter is an unattractive trait to a male chimpanzee then it seems only logical that the males would be more inclined to mate with the females that are using this understanding of cause and effect. If this is the case and this trait is passed onto future generations and becomes incorporated into the species as a whole then a process will have started that encourages mutations that improves upon cognitive abilities. If you sharpen a rock enough it becomes even a deadlier weapon than a sharp stick, and doesn't break or become dull as much as the sharp stick. If you form a group, all with sharp rocks, you can take down even larger prey. Those with better communication skills make better grouping partners. Over time this could develop into a language. If another species ever develops a sophisticated enough language and humans are able to learn that language then humans will begin rewarding them for communicating with us. This could remove their primary need for hunting with that of communicating. Once humans start communicating with another species above a level of "BAD DOG" then the possibility for their cognitive skills to increase at an exponential rate would be present. Soon enough we could reach a common ground that would enable them to learn concepts at a much more accelerated rate than it took humans to learn. This is because we had to figure it all out for ourselves whereas such a species would benefit from our existing knowledge.
Now, who is to say if all these what ifs and maybes come to pass but the exciting part is that for the first time aside from man, it has been observed that a species has the potential through evolution to progress through a chain of events that could lead to ever increasing cognitive abilities. This in itself seems to warrant research to track such a species progress over time.
Although I am very excited about this discovery and it's potential ramifications I also worry about how humans would interact with a species that had an intelligence level such that we could communicate with them. Would we enslave them (out of greed)? Would we exterminate them (out of fear)? Or would we encourage them to strive to reach their full potential (out of compassion and a mutual bond)? Though, humans being the most intelligent species, that we know of, I wouldn't count on our compassion. When presented with something new our first instinct is generally motivated by fear or greed. If such an epoch ever occurs I hope that humans will have evolved enough to incorporate traits that make us more understanding and compassionate. If not, then pity those creatures for developing skills that we can exploit. Even worse pity them if they develop skills that, out of fear, we cannot tolerate.
On a side note, when you said 'primates are vastly outnumbered by "split-hoof" mammals' would this still be the case if humans
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
...Microsoft been doing this for years?
George W Bush is the only person who disproves both intelligent design and evolution. :-)
Did you read the article? They aren't stalking, they're randomly stabbing into dark nooks that might harbour a sleeping bush baby. It really is quite similar to how they fish for termites, the difference is that the sticks are prepared differently, the "termites" are bigger and they fish really hard.
Still, it's pretty interesting. I'd like to see what happens if we try to teach them to use flints to sharpen the spears instead of their teeth, then lead on to sharpening flints with other rocks. With the right guidance and a few hundred chimp generations of patience we might be able to finally have another intelligent (ish) species to talk to!
Why, man is a nuisance. He eats up his food supply in the forest, then migrates to our green belts and ravages our crops. The sooner he is exterminated, the better. It's a question of simian survival. == Dr. Zaius
mplayer http://fjord.nationalgeographic.com/news/070222-ch imp-video.asf
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne
First she shaves all of her hair off and now this.
The girl has really gone off the rails.
I've seen a documentary about how some birds use tools as well, such as a blade of grass or stick, which they insert into an ant colony, pull it out covered with ants and then it's buffet time.
I, for one, welcome our new spear wielding chimp overlords!
The future isn't here until I can type "car keys" into Google and have it say "You left them in your pants last night."
That would make sense if he...
Why do you assume that I'm male? Just because I post to Slashdot? How many males do you know named Simonetta?
I'd like to be the first to welcome our new chimp overlords.
Jason-Palmer.com
In other news...
Chimpanzees in the wild have been observed eating hallucinogenic fungi, shaving their heads, and having promiscuous sex with an unusual number of other apes.
This "making like Spears" behaviour has stunned scientists around the world.
However, it has again called into question the apes intelligence levels.
When you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
We're are all seriously screwed
If you is estupido you winds up in Iranq.
When I was young late 80's I remember seeing a documentary on PBS showing Apes that create basic tools using sticks. I remember once tool they used to pick ants/termites? out of an ant hill.
But Iggy Pop has been marinating for years in a stew of nicotine, alcohol, and heroin, so that must have imparted *some* sort of extra flavor.
Captcha: "pervert"
Big deal. What I want to know is when Lusers will get a Clue!
Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
In this world gone mad, we won't spank the monkey- the monkey will spank us.
I hear it already works that way, at least among the monkeys in Soviet Russia.
I don't know anyone named Simonetta, so the criterion you suggest is useless to me. For all I know, that could be your last name, or a completely made up name (newsflash: my name is not "alienmole"). In general, there's no way to determine someone's gender from a screen name, particularly since people often deliberately select misleading or uninformative names. In any case, I hadn't noticed your username, nor was it onscreen when I was commenting. In fact, I still don't know whether you're actually the person to whom I was referring, since I haven't bothered to go back and look at the thread.
That is why I used "he" in the generic sense. In English, the typical alternatives in a case like this are unsatisfactory: generic "they" would not make sense; "he or she" is clumsy; second person ("you") is not an option, since you were a third person in that sentence; pluralization doesn't work; and replacing the pronoun with "Simonetta" would have required going back to the thread to find the username. Perhaps the best solution in the Slashdot context is to use "the OP" in a situation like this. I often do that. Apparently, I chose not to in this instance.
A group of juvenile sharks were reported to have made sarcastic comments at the chimpanzees' primitive efforts.
In the trade, the technical term is "flanking" or "flank attack".
Your force is split. The section that makes contact fixes the enemy in place, and the section out of contact manouvres to a flank and attacks.
Patton put it succinctly: "We're gonna hold him by the nose and kick him in the ass"
The primary advantage is moral - the sudden appearance of a large force threatening you from an unexpected (and usually weaker) direction can be a serious blow to morale and discipline. It is not at all unusual to have the enemy break and run once the flankers start their attack. It is very difficult for a defender to successfully reorient his axis to counter a flank attack.
Usually, defenders seek to anchor their flanks on some sort of natural or artificial obstacle. A defender fighting with secure flanks can be very difficult to pry loose - see the battle of Thermopyle, and the 300 Immortals who held off an entire Persian army.
And some of the most successful flanking operations in history have come through supposedly secure flanks. If the defender thinks that "nobody can possibly come from that direction" and then the attacker comes from that direction, panic can ensue.
Flanking can be done tactically, at the level of platoons, or strategically, at the level of armies or corps, and at all levels in between. It is the core concept of warfighting.
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
welcome our new damn dirty overlords.
"Senegal researchers found dead, stabbed by masses of spear wielding monkeys"
chimps in the west African savannah modifying sticks to create Spears
Give them a century and a floorboard, and they'll soon have Keanu Reeves!
*ducks*
Defining Statistics and Social Research
;or should we try to guide their evolution towards a less violent path so they don't turn out like us.
sometimes, nothing.
I don't have a good reference, but there's a really interesting story about killer whales near Eden, Australia helping whalers. I found a brief reference, here:
u ctID=9002250
http://www.visitnsw.com.au/Destination.aspx?DProd
A century later, Eden became famous for its killer whale pod. Led by a whale known as "Old Tom", the pod would alert local whalers when other whales were in the vicinity, and whalers and killer whales would unite to herd their victims into the shallow waters of Twofold Bay.
Sounds like a lot of animals are pretty darn bright. Lord knows, these killer whales sound a hell of a lot smarter than the person I had on the tech support line for Bell the other day, and certainly they're a boatload more useful.
(We have yet to try man-flesh, though it looks appetising).
Actually, man-flesh would be pretty tough unless you'd go for a baby. In addition, cannibals have testified that human flesh tastes like chicken, which ipso facto means that chicken tastes like human flesh.
Have a nice weekend!
Defining Statistics and Social Research
This is terrible. Clearly, chimpanzee weapons must be banned.
The hunting technique is not unlike the annual review process here at the office...
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Researchers soon after observed the following message scratched into a tree:
"WTS [Crude Spear] 10s or BO PST"
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
"I hate every ape I see, from Chimp pan A to Chimpanzee."
Take your modified stick posing as a weapon off me you damn dirty ape!
"We are so close to Chimpanzee's that a human/ape hybrid is possible without the help of genetic manipulation,"
No. That's not possible.
Welp, there's nothing to do now but try to teach them about Jesus so their souls will be saved.
Hehe, I imagine an infinite and good god resurrecting chimpanzees, giving them indestructible bodies, then heaving them into a lake of lava where they scream in agony for ever and ever, for not acknowledging Jesus is their lord and savior.
Note to people who would mod me down: people actually believe this, and I'm poking fun at it. This is "the next step in evolution" for the monkeys.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
By no one's definition of the term could creatures who place a truckload of high explosives into a crowded marketplace and blow hundreds of people to meat chunks be considered human.
That IS a uniquely human thing to do.
The closest I've seen in the animal kingdom is individual insects carrying parasites into the colony which is then wiped out. And it wasn't exactly intentional on the insects part.
Carne Asada. Say It. Carrrrrne Asada. It's fun to say. Carrrne Asada. Say it sexy, like Ricardo Montalban.
Wait, nazi chimps want genocide against humans?
Can't we, like, just throw feces at them or something?
What did the chimp say when he saw a human in African Savannah hunting with a spear?
" You know the saying, "Human see, human do." "
What did the lost scientist say when he found the spear-making chimps deep in African Savannah?
" You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell! "
I for one welcome our new chimp overlords!
We will make nice pets won't we now.
Welcome our spear-weilding chimp overlords
and I can't believe nobody posted this already.
Even more British farmers will go out of business, and for Sunday roast, you'll be eating monkey with grub stuffing on a bed of banana leaves.
Stick Men
I will admit that I don't think a hybrid could happen through natural processes under normal conditions... Lets play with some numbers... Lets assume that 99.999% of the population (6,525,170,264) haven't had intercourse with a chimp. This leaves 652,517 people who've had intercourse with a chimp. Lets assume that 50% (326,259) of the cases resulted in insemination. Lets assume that 15% (48,939) of the cases resulted in fertilization (chimp or human). Lets assume that 15% (7,341) of the cases produce a viable embryo. Lets assume that 15% (1101) make it passed the first trimester. Lets assume that 75% (165) of the cases are terminated after the first trimester or at birth. Lets assume that 75% are locked up in a lab, basement till death or terminated when found by others. 41 hybrids unaccounted for. And I found these tidbits on wikipedia (Animal_sexuality, Humanzee): "Looking back in history, current research into human evolution tends to confirm that in some cases, interspecies sexual activity may have been responsible for the evolution of entire new species. Analysis of human and animal genes in 2006 provides strong evidence that after humans had diverged from apes, interspecies mating none the less occurred regularly enough to change certain genes in the new gene pool: "A new comparison of the human and chimp genomes suggests that after the two lineages separated, they may have begun interbreeding. [...] A principal finding is that the X chromosomes of humans and chimps appear to have diverged about 1.2 million years more recently than the other chromosomes." The research suggests that: "There were in fact two splits between the human and chimp lineages, with the first being followed by interbreeding between the two populations and then a second split. The suggestion of a hybridization has startled paleoanthropologists, who nonetheless are "treating the new genetic data seriously."" and... "Compared to other apes, humans are short one chromosome, since ape chromosomes 2p and 2q have fused into a large chromosome (which contains remnants of the centromere and telomeres of the ancestral 2p and 2q) in humans[2]. Having different numbers of chromosomes is not an absolute barrier to hybridization. Similar mismatches are relatively common in existing species, a phenomenon known as chromosomal polymorphism. The genetic structure of all the great apes, including humans, is similar. Chromosomes 6, 13, 19, 21, 22, and X are structurally the same in all species of great apes. 3, 11, 14, 15, 18, and 20 match between gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans. Chimps and humans match on 1, 2p, 2q, 5, 7 - 10, 12, 16, and Y as well. Some older references will include Y as a match between gorillas, chimps, and humans, but chimpanzees (including bonobos) and humans have recently been found to share a large transposition from chromosome 1 to Y that is not found in any other ape.[3] This level of chromosomal similarity is roughly equivalent to that found in equines. Interfertility of horses and donkeys is common, and some of the resulting hybrids are themselves fertile. In a direct parallel to the chimp-human case, the Przewalski horse (Equus przewalskii) with 33 chromosome pairs, and the domestic horse (E. caballus) with 32 chromosome pairs, have been found to be interfertile, and produce semi-fertile offspring, where male hybrids can breed with female domestic horses.[4])" Anyhow... I'm sure it's nothing a reproductive endocrinologist can't handle given enough time, money, and willing subjects.
I will admit that I don't think a hybrid could happen through natural processes under normal conditions... Lets play with some numbers...
Lets assume that 99.999% of the population (6,525,170,264) haven't had intercourse with a chimp.
This leaves 652,517 people who've had intercourse with a chimp.
Lets assume that 50% (326,259) of the cases resulted in insemination.
Lets assume that 15% (48,939) of the cases resulted in fertilization (chimp or human).
Lets assume that 15% (7,341) of the cases produce a viable embryo.
Lets assume that 15% (1101) make it passed the first trimester.
Lets assume that 75% (165) of the cases are terminated after the first trimester or at birth.
Lets assume that 75% are locked up in a lab, basement till death or terminated when found by others.
41 hybrids unaccounted for.
And I found these tidbits on wikipedia (Animal_sexuality, Humanzee):
"Looking back in history, current research into human evolution tends to confirm that in some cases, interspecies sexual activity may have been responsible for the evolution of entire new species. Analysis of human and animal genes in 2006 provides strong evidence that after humans had diverged from apes, interspecies mating none the less occurred regularly enough to change certain genes in the new gene pool:
"A new comparison of the human and chimp genomes suggests that after the two lineages separated, they may have begun interbreeding. [...] A principal finding is that the X chromosomes of humans and chimps appear to have diverged about 1.2 million years more recently than the other chromosomes."
The research suggests that:
"There were in fact two splits between the human and chimp lineages, with the first being followed by interbreeding between the two populations and then a second split. The suggestion of a hybridization has startled paleoanthropologists, who nonetheless are "treating the new genetic data seriously.""
and...
"Compared to other apes, humans are short one chromosome, since ape chromosomes 2p and 2q have fused into a large chromosome (which contains remnants of the centromere and telomeres of the ancestral 2p and 2q) in humans[2]. Having different numbers of chromosomes is not an absolute barrier to hybridization. Similar mismatches are relatively common in existing species, a phenomenon known as chromosomal polymorphism.
The genetic structure of all the great apes, including humans, is similar. Chromosomes 6, 13, 19, 21, 22, and X are structurally the same in all species of great apes. 3, 11, 14, 15, 18, and 20 match between gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans. Chimps and humans match on 1, 2p, 2q, 5, 7 - 10, 12, 16, and Y as well. Some older references will include Y as a match between gorillas, chimps, and humans, but chimpanzees (including bonobos) and humans have recently been found to share a large transposition from chromosome 1 to Y that is not found in any other ape.[3]
This level of chromosomal similarity is roughly equivalent to that found in equines. Interfertility of horses and donkeys is common, and some of the resulting hybrids are themselves fertile. In a direct parallel to the chimp-human case, the Przewalski horse (Equus przewalskii) with 33 chromosome pairs, and the domestic horse (E. caballus) with 32 chromosome pairs, have been found to be interfertile, and produce semi-fertile offspring, where male hybrids can breed with female domestic horses.[4])"
Anyhow... I'm sure it's nothing a reproductive endocrinologist can't handle given enough time, money, and willing subjects.
It'll only be a matter of time now before they start inventing gods.
What's next? We interrupt this broadcast to announce that we have just spotted the first chimp taking a shit upside down!
What is it that makes humans think that we are somehow different, superior to other animals? Who's to say they do not (to some extent) feature similar intelligence? Us, because we haven't observed it yet? Kind of naive if you ask me...
I for one welcome our new simian overlords!