whilst it's always good to see genuinely open formats in use, isn't there already an ISO standard document format? If there is, is it better to use the ISO standard or an open standard?
ODF is an ISO standard, as is Microsoft's OOXML format. However ODF is an open standard whereas OOXML is proprietary. As the Star-Telegram article says "If the Constitution was in WordPerfect 5.1 format, it would probably be difficult to read right now", substitute any of MS's formats and it would still be true.
You seem to be mistakenly conflating professional graphic design with print design - there's this new media called "the web", you may have heard of it, it works on RGB and so CMYK capabilities aren't that important.
No, I have heard of the web, and in some posts I have said colour depth doesn't matter so much for the web. In one post where someone says his students that use both GIMP and PS "as a rule far more professional than all respects than their peers." I ask how many do web vs print work. I also said before that while CYMK is not important on the web it is for print.
No, jury nullification allows the people to tell politicians what is constitutional and what laws are good. John Jay, the first First Chief Justice wrote: "It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision... you [juries] have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy".
Thomas Jefferson said: "...it is usual for the jurors to decide the fact, and to refer the law arising on it to the decision of the judges. But this division of the subject lies with their discretion only. And if the question relate to any point of public liberty, or if it be one of those in which the judges may be suspected of bias, the jury undertake to decide both law and fact." Writing to Thomas Paine he then went on to say "I consider...[trial by jury] as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution...."
But you cannot base your verdict on what you think about case law. All you are allowed to base a verdict on is the information presented in the courtroom.
BS! At least in the USA not only is it the duty of the jury to decide guilt or innocence but it's also the juror's duty to question the law itself. The USA's Founding Fathers thought jury nullification was one of a juror's greatest duties.
The prosecution and defense are the ones who need to present the facts and make the arguments. The prosecution needs to make clear the charges, and the judge decides what law applies. That's how it works, and your personal belief of how it should work is irrelevent.
If you really believe that maybe you should read what the USA's Founding Fathers thought about jury nullification. Many of them thought jurors were the final arbiters of the law, one of the duties is to decide whether a law is constitutional for instance.
The people of the jury don't (or shouldn't) know anything about you, so probably have no "agenda".
Then you apparently have never served on a jury before. Plenty of jury members have their own agendas and many of them believe that their sole job is to convict people.
I'm glad I know different people. Most of the people I know how they stand with regards to laws and trials believe in jury nullification. Myself, I was called for jury duty twice but didn't serve on a jury either tyme. I was hoping I'd be picked for a drug trial so I could use jury nullification.
the Jury is supposed to be a passive box that just absorbs whatever information the lawyers wish to provide.
No, the worst part is though jurors are supposed to be the final arbiters of the law juries are often instructed to decide guilt or innocence of the law. An easy way to be dismissed from a jury is to say you believe in jury nullification.
Well, the trouble is that I have a custom 404 page, which has the unfortunate side effect of cluttering up the browser window when 9 banners on the page suddenly point to localhost.
How can I get around that? I don't want to point to a dead IP address, I want to point to a live but blocking IP address. I already tried my router, and my other machines are usually offline.
Most trials aren't really about "truth" as much as about being "fair". And what is "fair" is totally stacked against the state, and in favor of the defendant.
How is it fair for someone who may not be able to afford an attorney to fight against a state prosecutor who has the resources of the state behind him?
Some people have all the fun. Though I've been called to show up for jury duty twice neither tyme was I even questioned. I'm a firm believer in jury nullification and wanted to serve on the jury for a drug trial to say how bad drug laws are.
My point being, how much would it cost me WITHOUT "Adobe Photoshop Elements 5.0 Win/4.0 Mac, Corel Painter Essentials 4.0, and Nik Color Efex Pro 2.0 GE"
You wouldn't really pay much less for a tablet if you don't want these programs. Adobe, Corel, and others basically give old versions to hardware makers to try to entice users to upgrade. Look at Photoshop Elements, PE 5 Win/PE 4 Mac comes with a tablet but PE 7 Win as well as PE 5 Mac has been available for a while. I got PE 5 Mac months ago. Painter would be good for me to have but before I buy it, unless it comes with a tablet I buy, I'll try a FOOS program first.
I've thought about getting a Bamboo tablet, and if Wacom makes a larger one I might get it. Outside a tablet, instead of a mouse you want a trackball. I've got two Logitech Trackman Wheel Opticals, one on my desk and the other in my laptop bag.
Support for color modes other than greyscale and RGB, for one thing.
Those will come soon, and if you're not doing print or broadcast work, that isn't such a big deal.
Is that the same "come soon" as when 16 bit colour channels are "coming soon"? Ten years after 16 bit colour channels were offered GIMP still doesn't have it.
I used GIMP when I really wanted to move entirely to Ubuntu. But points 1, 2 and 6 broke GIMP for me. I hate sticking to XP just so I can have PS, but that's the price I have to pay to have proper photo editing.
If you're using Ubuntu have you tried CinePaint? I don't know if it meets your requirements but it may.
Out of all of my students who can be considered professionals, I've noticed that my students who started out with GIMP and keep using it alongside Photoshop after they learn Photoshop are, as a rule far more professional than all respects than their peers.
It says right there in the name it's for manipulation, not drawing/painting.
Neither was Photoshop, and it's in the name too, "photo". Photoshop was first programmed by a programmer who was an amateur photographer and wanted a way to edit photos.
For the record I do use Gimp, but I quite regularly feel as if I'm fighting with the interface to get something done, or having to make lots of extra clicks to deal with window focus changes.
If you like GIMP but not it's GUI you can try Gimpshop which has a more Photoshop like gui.
he day Adobe puts CS on Linux is the day GIMP gets a stake driven through its heart. Ad that day can't come too soon, IMHO. I'd love to run CS on a Linux box and be done with Mac AND Windows and run on generic hardware.
Thanks to a how-to posted yesterday, here's a guide to Installing Photoshop on Ubuntu Linux. However it's for PS 7. Though they can be made to run there are issues with CS.
I'll definitely buy this book. I dislike GIMP intensely, but knowing it better might take an edge off.
I won't buy this book as is but if it was about using CinePaint I'd jump on it.
It's really interesting how professionals pretty much ignore the GIMP in favor of Photoshop.
One reason is because GIMP does not do 16 never mind 24 or 32 bits per colour channel. While GIMP's 8 bits per channel works for the web it does not cut it for print. CYMK, cyan, yellow, magenta, and black, output is also needed for print. I think GIMP 2.6 added it but older versions do not offer it. Without these two capabilities, which are important for many pros, pros have little reason to use GIMP.
On the other hand CinePaint does do them. However many graphics/photography pros use Macs and CinePaint doesn't work well in OS X.
And GIMP may never do 16 bit colour channels. It's been almost 10 years since a developer added 16 bit depth per colour channel. But the maintainers of GIMP did not add this capability, so the developer forked it and started Film GIMP now called CinePaint.
If it could do both of these it would meet all my professional needs.
Have you tried CinePaint? I'm using Mac OS X now and though there's a version of CinePaint for OS X it's not native and needs X11. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get CinePaint to work so I've been thinking of installing Ubuntu, when the new long term support version comes out, on my Mac. If I do I'll be able to try and see if it will work for me, I want to get into photography. If it works it will save me money but if not then I may end up paying for Photoshop.
True, but I'm running the server on the same computer that I use for normal web surfing, etc.
Unless the server is requesting things from a website blocked by the hosts file it shouldn't matter. The hosts file only tells the computer it's on where to look for certain addresses.
I strongly suspect that the number of people who need features present in Office 2007 but not in OOo 3.x is a lot less than the number of people locked into WIndows because of Quickbooks.
You're not locked into Windows if you need Quickbooks. Intuit also as a version for Macs. And it's universal, it runs on both PowerPC and Intel Macs.
Some people need MS Office. Last I hear OO.org doesn't handle some MS Office macros and because most people use it others need that capability. Use the tool that gets the job done.
Slashdot Mirror
whilst it's always good to see genuinely open formats in use, isn't there already an ISO standard document format? If there is, is it better to use the ISO standard or an open standard?
ODF is an ISO standard, as is Microsoft's OOXML format. However ODF is an open standard whereas OOXML is proprietary. As the Star-Telegram article says "If the Constitution was in WordPerfect 5.1 format, it would probably be difficult to read right now", substitute any of MS's formats and it would still be true.
Falcon
You seem to be mistakenly conflating professional graphic design with print design - there's this new media called "the web", you may have heard of it, it works on RGB and so CMYK capabilities aren't that important.
No, I have heard of the web, and in some posts I have said colour depth doesn't matter so much for the web. In one post where someone says his students that use both GIMP and PS "as a rule far more professional than all respects than their peers." I ask how many do web vs print work. I also said before that while CYMK is not important on the web it is for print.
Falcon
No, jury nullification allows the people to tell politicians what is constitutional and what laws are good. John Jay, the first First Chief Justice wrote: "It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision... you [juries] have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy".
Thomas Jefferson said: "...it is usual for the jurors to decide the fact, and to refer the law arising on it to the decision of the judges. But this division of the subject lies with their discretion only. And if the question relate to any point of public liberty, or if it be one of those in which the judges may be suspected of bias, the jury undertake to decide both law and fact." Writing to Thomas Paine he then went on to say "I consider...[trial by jury] as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution...."
Falcon
job
No, the jury is the final arbiter of the law.
Falcon
But you cannot base your verdict on what you think about case law. All you are allowed to base a verdict on is the information presented in the courtroom.
BS! At least in the USA not only is it the duty of the jury to decide guilt or innocence but it's also the juror's duty to question the law itself. The USA's Founding Fathers thought jury nullification was one of a juror's greatest duties.
Falcon
The prosecution and defense are the ones who need to present the facts and make the arguments. The prosecution needs to make clear the charges, and the judge decides what law applies. That's how it works, and your personal belief of how it should work is irrelevent.
If you really believe that maybe you should read what the USA's Founding Fathers thought about jury nullification. Many of them thought jurors were the final arbiters of the law, one of the duties is to decide whether a law is constitutional for instance.
Falcon
The people of the jury don't (or shouldn't) know anything about you, so probably have no "agenda".
Then you apparently have never served on a jury before. Plenty of jury members have their own agendas and many of them believe that their sole job is to convict people.
I'm glad I know different people. Most of the people I know how they stand with regards to laws and trials believe in jury nullification. Myself, I was called for jury duty twice but didn't serve on a jury either tyme. I was hoping I'd be picked for a drug trial so I could use jury nullification.
Falcon
the Jury is supposed to be a passive box that just absorbs whatever information the lawyers wish to provide.
No, the worst part is though jurors are supposed to be the final arbiters of the law juries are often instructed to decide guilt or innocence of the law. An easy way to be dismissed from a jury is to say you believe in jury nullification.
Falcon
Well, the trouble is that I have a custom 404 page, which has the unfortunate side effect of cluttering up the browser window when 9 banners on the page suddenly point to localhost.
How can I get around that? I don't want to point to a dead IP address, I want to point to a live but blocking IP address. I already tried my router, and my other machines are usually offline.
As I said before I have no idea.
Falcon
Most trials aren't really about "truth" as much as about being "fair". And what is "fair" is totally stacked against the state, and in favor of the defendant.
How is it fair for someone who may not be able to afford an attorney to fight against a state prosecutor who has the resources of the state behind him?
Falcon
I was on a month long trial last summer
Some people have all the fun. Though I've been called to show up for jury duty twice neither tyme was I even questioned. I'm a firm believer in jury nullification and wanted to serve on the jury for a drug trial to say how bad drug laws are.
Falcon
My point being, how much would it cost me WITHOUT "Adobe Photoshop Elements 5.0 Win/4.0 Mac, Corel Painter Essentials 4.0, and Nik Color Efex Pro 2.0 GE"
You wouldn't really pay much less for a tablet if you don't want these programs. Adobe, Corel, and others basically give old versions to hardware makers to try to entice users to upgrade. Look at Photoshop Elements, PE 5 Win/PE 4 Mac comes with a tablet but PE 7 Win as well as PE 5 Mac has been available for a while. I got PE 5 Mac months ago. Painter would be good for me to have but before I buy it, unless it comes with a tablet I buy, I'll try a FOOS program first.
Falcon
You need a graphics tablet.
I've thought about getting a Bamboo tablet, and if Wacom makes a larger one I might get it. Outside a tablet, instead of a mouse you want a trackball. I've got two Logitech Trackman Wheel Opticals, one on my desk and the other in my laptop bag.
Falcon
Support for color modes other than greyscale and RGB, for one thing.
Those will come soon, and if you're not doing print or broadcast work, that isn't such a big deal.
Is that the same "come soon" as when 16 bit colour channels are "coming soon"? Ten years after 16 bit colour channels were offered GIMP still doesn't have it.
Falcon
I used GIMP when I really wanted to move entirely to Ubuntu. But points 1, 2 and 6 broke GIMP for me. I hate sticking to XP just so I can have PS, but that's the price I have to pay to have proper photo editing.
If you're using Ubuntu have you tried CinePaint? I don't know if it meets your requirements but it may.
Falcon
OK, so what does a professional image editor have to have that GIMP doesn't?
To name two, 16 bit colour channels if not 24 or 32 and CYMK output.
Falcon
Out of all of my students who can be considered professionals, I've noticed that my students who started out with GIMP and keep using it alongside Photoshop after they learn Photoshop are, as a rule far more professional than all respects than their peers.
How many of them do web work versus print work?
Falcon
It says right there in the name it's for manipulation, not drawing/painting.
Neither was Photoshop, and it's in the name too, "photo". Photoshop was first programmed by a programmer who was an amateur photographer and wanted a way to edit photos.
Falcon
For the record I do use Gimp, but I quite regularly feel as if I'm fighting with the interface to get something done, or having to make lots of extra clicks to deal with window focus changes.
If you like GIMP but not it's GUI you can try Gimpshop which has a more Photoshop like gui.
Falcon
he day Adobe puts CS on Linux is the day GIMP gets a stake driven through its heart. Ad that day can't come too soon, IMHO. I'd love to run CS on a Linux box and be done with Mac AND Windows and run on generic hardware.
Thanks to a how-to posted yesterday, here's a guide to Installing Photoshop on Ubuntu Linux. However it's for PS 7. Though they can be made to run there are issues with CS.
I'll definitely buy this book. I dislike GIMP intensely, but knowing it better might take an edge off.
I won't buy this book as is but if it was about using CinePaint I'd jump on it.
Falcon
It's really interesting how professionals pretty much ignore the GIMP in favor of Photoshop.
One reason is because GIMP does not do 16 never mind 24 or 32 bits per colour channel. While GIMP's 8 bits per channel works for the web it does not cut it for print. CYMK, cyan, yellow, magenta, and black, output is also needed for print. I think GIMP 2.6 added it but older versions do not offer it. Without these two capabilities, which are important for many pros, pros have little reason to use GIMP.
On the other hand CinePaint does do them. However many graphics/photography pros use Macs and CinePaint doesn't work well in OS X.
Falcon
And GIMP may never do 16 bit colour channels. It's been almost 10 years since a developer added 16 bit depth per colour channel. But the maintainers of GIMP did not add this capability, so the developer forked it and started Film GIMP now called CinePaint.
If it could do both of these it would meet all my professional needs.
Have you tried CinePaint? I'm using Mac OS X now and though there's a version of CinePaint for OS X it's not native and needs X11. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get CinePaint to work so I've been thinking of installing Ubuntu, when the new long term support version comes out, on my Mac. If I do I'll be able to try and see if it will work for me, I want to get into photography. If it works it will save me money but if not then I may end up paying for Photoshop.
True, but I'm running the server on the same computer that I use for normal web surfing, etc.
Unless the server is requesting things from a website blocked by the hosts file it shouldn't matter. The hosts file only tells the computer it's on where to look for certain addresses.
Falcon
I strongly suspect that the number of people who need features present in Office 2007 but not in OOo 3.x is a lot less than the number of people locked into WIndows because of Quickbooks.
You're not locked into Windows if you need Quickbooks. Intuit also as a version for Macs. And it's universal, it runs on both PowerPC and Intel Macs.
Falcon
I'll stick with OpenOffice thanks.
Some people need MS Office. Last I hear OO.org doesn't handle some MS Office macros and because most people use it others need that capability. Use the tool that gets the job done.
Falcon