You're right but I said laptop and the only other OS that comes on them, that I know of, is Linux and I have not seen a single laptop in a store with Linux preinstalled. Plus, as I said earlier, one of the reasons for getting a Mac is because I want to do photography work and well as cross platform development.
I'd be happy to give OS X a shot, but I'm not going to lock myself to a single hardware vendor.
I'm not locked into a single hardware vender. In January I replaced my HDD with a larger one that does not have the Apple brand on it anywhere. I can also put more RAM into it that's not from Apple. Actually someone at an Apple store once suggested I get a Mac with the standard amount of RAM then buy more from somewhere else because it's cheaper. The handbook I got with my Mac even shows you how to add more RAM. Neither of the external HDDs nor my printer are from Apple either.
Quite simply there is no more hardware lockin on my Mac than there is with any other laptop.
Yes, Genius Bar. Every Apple store I know of has a Genius Bar where you can take your Mac, iPhone, or iPod to have it serviced. The only other chain store I know of that does that is Best Buy, where the Geek Squad will provide services. Notice I said chain stores, as small mom and pop stores do the same.
There are a lot of Slashdotters who'd love to upgrade or build their own Mac. Back in January I upgraded my MacBook Pro, and I may again. I had the HDD it came with swapped out for a bigger drive, and I may add more RAM.
Bullshit. I'll come out and say there's no god, and will not contradict what I wrote. Nowhere did I entertain that a god may exist, so don't go telling me I'm an agnostic when I know otherwise.
Bullshit I did not say you said you're agnostic, I have however said elsewhere I was. I have no idea whether there is but I'm willing to see evidence there is or is not a deity. However I see where the problem may be, in your "default assumption". The burden of proof, for and against the existence of said deity, is the responsibility of those who make the claim. I make no claim one way or the other and if someone wants to convince me otherwise they have to proof it. Now I don't know how there not being one can be proven, but a booming voice from a burning bush might convince me one existed.
now I want a new machine and the 20" Dell is still perfect, but I can't reuse the iMac.
First off, because they are not so easy to reuse or re purpose I don't like these all-in-one computers, whether iMacs, Dell XPS One, or other all-in-one computers. To me they are a waste of resources. However you can still use the iMac. See this. It describes how you can use it with another Mac. For instance using a Firewire cable you can use it as a Firewire drive. MacOSX explains how you can use some iMacs as a second monitor. Check Can MacBook Pro laptop use IMAC monitor (easily)? as well.
You don't calculate the Mac tax by comparing similar PC and Mac systems, you calculate it by comparing the PC you would buy with the Mac you'd have to buy.
After dealing with all the problems I had with Windows PCs as well as Microsoft wanting to treat me like I'm a criminal I did not want to get another Windows PC.
On the flip side though, since I bought my wife's MacBook in August of 2007, I've had to replace a battery and the keyboard (no, nothing was spilled on/in it:-))
Really? In the about 20 months I've had my MacBook Pro I taken it to the Genius Bar in an Apple store twice. The first tyme was the day after it was delivered. When I ordered it I also ordered software for it. One program was the utility suite Tech Tool Pro 4. The day I got it I tried to boot the Mac with the disk but it didn't do anything. So the following day I rushed to an Apple store to see a Genius. That store was busy though I was there at opening, however one person set up an appointment at another Apple store, there are 4 in my area with 3 10 to 15 minutes drive. It ended up Apple had sent an older version of Tech Tool which wasn't compatible to boot with.
The second tyme I took my MBP to the Genius Bar was after the hard disk drive was replaced in January this year. After the replacement it it didn't respond for a while when I was installing Leopard. So again I went there, and made an appointment. While waiting I tried to install Leopard again. Apparently the first tyme I didn't wait long enough, I only waited about 10 minutes, because after about 15 minutes the Leopard installation started.
One of the reasons I switched from PCs to Macs is because of the trouble I've had with them. Of 4 PCs I bought new on 3 both the hdd and motherboard had to be replaced within a year. On two of those, the third came with Linux preinstalled, I had to reinstall Windows a number of tymes. And no it wasn't that I just decided to reinstall Windows. The first one started giving me problems so I called the OEM's tech support. After running through a number of tests the tech told me I needed to reinstall Windows. After that I had the same problem again with it as well as a second PC I bought new.
I understand that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but my personal experience with post-iMac G3 Apple products is that they haven't been nearly as reliable as the machines I put together myself. My iPods, Apple IIs, and older Macs all keep going like a Timex watch though.
I say the same, Windows OEM PCs weren't reliable but old Macs were. Of the three PCs I needed to replace the hdd and mobo one was a Gateway, one an HP, and the third a no name store brand. I've only been happy with the hardware on one PC, one I ordered from Microway. I agree about the older Macs, the first computer I bought was a used Mac SE30 I bought in 1992. Because it's floppy drive was only double density I think it was built in 1988, the high density floppies came out in 1989. It lasted me until 2000 when it wouldn't bootup. Shortly after that I bought another used Mac, this one a PowerMac 7300/200 which I think came out in 1996/7. It lasted until 2006 when like the SE30 it wouldn't bootup.
You must have been looking at the wrong Dell one then
Yea, Dell makes it harder to find a computer than Apple does. Does a buyer want a Home/Home Office system, a small to medium business system, or a large business system? Of course there are other choices. And they all come with different configurations and different prices. However when I looked there was 3 Mac laptop lines, MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. It's quite easy to see which one a buyer would want to buy. I just checked Dell again. Home and Home Office does not have a 17". Small Business has three, the lowest price one is $600 whereas the other two start at $3405, $700 more than the 17" MacBook Pro. Now for large business, there are 2, the Dell Precision M6400 with a 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 17" UltraSharp(TM) WUXGA (1920x1200) RGB LED Display, 4.0GB, DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM, and 320GB Hard Drive, 7200RPM with Windows XP (which is being End of Lifed) cost $3,168. The MacBook Pro with the same configuration is $2800. What about the other one? Instead of XP it comes with Redhat Linux and cost $3090 for the same cpu, graphics, and hdd.
With the exception of the $600 laptop all of the laptops above cost more than the 17" MacBook Pro. You may say "but you looked at 17" laptops". Yes I did. One of the things I got it for, photography, the larger screen is better. For photography I also want a big hdd and high resolution display as well as a fast processor.
People don't compare like hardware because Apple doesn't offer anything within their price range. They STILL after over 12 years DO NOT HAVE A HEADLESS MID RANGE MAC.
You have no idea how many sales Apple loses for this very reason. So you either toss away a perfectly good monitor and get an iMac or you pay a ton of money for a PowerMac.
You can use that monitor with the iMac, that way you can have two.
But I do believe Apple should have a mid range tower for not more than the price of the iMac.
Apple's product line up has less offerings than dell, so Dell has some price points that Apple doesn't compete at.
Though they may not realize it I think that's the biggest problem people have with Mac prices. Apple does not offer as wide a range of computer lines as Dell and other OEMs do. You can't get a tower Mac, one that's expandable/upgradeable for under $2000, I just checked the Apple store online and the cheapest Mac Pro is $2499. At the low end there's the Mac Mini, then there's the all-in-one iMac desktops. If you compare the prices of the Mac Pro with similar offerings from Windows OEMs they aren't as expensive as many make out to be though.
Personally I like the hardware and design of the MacBook Pro, the software is nice too, but for me it's not worth the extra coin.
When I switched from Windows to OS X and got my MacBook Pro I first compared it's price to those of Windows OEM laptops and the prices were comparable. While an HP laptop cost about $50 less a Dell cost about $200 more for similarly configured laptops. So I didn't pay extra. I've had my MBP for about 20 months now and in that tyme I haven't had nearly as many problems with it as I have had with the Windows, or Linux, PCs I've also had.
I've done some C/C++ programming on Windows PCs, but not in years. Now I use Macs mostly though I also have a Linux PC and may install Ubuntu on my Mac. Objective-C is the mainstay language on Macs but I don't know if it can be programmed on Linux or Windows PCs. Anyway I want to start programming again but I want to be able to program cross platform so I'm wondering if I should stick with C/C++ or try Objective-C. Currently I'm trying to learn Java.
Once you get pegged as a "web developer" it can be hard to get a traditional programming job.
I've heard much the same, if you get branded as a web developer you're pretty much stuck there. But if you work on more general programming paradigms then you can go into a number of different fields. At the same tyme I've also heard basically the opposite. For instance a programmer or CS major may take classes in finance, then they will be more likely to be hired by someone in finance.
As an atheist, I wasn't aware that proving the absence of something was a requirement. I had assumed that non-existence was the default assumption, and that if there is any burden of proof it falls on someone willing to entertain a hypothesis that asserts existence of something.
This description would be more correct to say is Agnostic than Atheistic. Agnostics don't know but believe a god may exist. Atheists come right out and say a god does not exist. One is open minded and the other is just as closed minded as Fundamentalists.
So you can still not believe in something, but still say that it might exist and we don't know, huh?
Exactly. Up until the existence or non-existence of a god is proven I will neither believe in the existence or non-existence of one. The same applies to the spirit or soul.
functionally, Agnosticism is equivalent to Atheism.
In no way, shape, or form are agnosticism and atheism equivalent. Agnostic is "a", without and "gnosis" knowledge, "without knowledge". Atheism on the other hand is "a", without and "theism" belief in a god, ie there is no god, or "God". I am an agnostic, meaning I do not know if a god exists, but I certainly want to know one way or the other. Whereas Agnostics are open minded Atheists are not.
In the beginning, of Christianity, there were Christians who were the same and didn't believe in a god, Agnostic Christians. The early churches though persecuted them.
From one of those pages linked to: 'The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters' (Matthew 12:30). Any "God" who requires faith in order to be "saved" is sadistic.
If you believe, and there is no God, nothing happens to you - this is the existential viewpoint. If you disbelieve, and there is a God, you are screwed - this is the religious viewpoint.
On it's face of Pascal's Wager it may seem safe to believe in "God", the problem comes in what "God" should someone believe in. If you pick the wrong "God" you're up shit creek just as much as if you don't believe. Especially if the religion comes from Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Their "God" is a jealous god. Didn't Moses smash the Ten Commandments tablet when he came down from the mount and saw the people worshiping a bull statute of the Egyptian god? Weren't the Jews then required to wander the wilderness for years before being led to the Promised Land?
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
the lack of respect most Slashdotters have for other beliefs is disheartening.
The same can be applied to believers of religion. However while Slashdotters would let Religionists live as they want, Fundimentalists of various stripes whether Christian Talibans or Muslim Talibans would force people to live the way they say.
Religion, Divinity, even Media Studies have advanced degree programs for students interested in the topics.
But those degrees are not in science. If these people want to be able to offer a Masters then they can offer a Masters in Divinity, Religion, or Philosophy. All this is is an attempt to pass off religion as science.
What this boils down to, is a State Legislature that is inherently designed to be weak and making change difficult, especially at a state level. In every two year period they are allowed to meet for 140 days (barring a special session being called). Can you imagine your state legislature only meeting for 70 days a year?
Yea, I've posted before about how I wish the US congress was the same and only worked about 120 days. What you left out though was that at first those elected to office had to work for a living, unless they were wealthy, so they did not want to spend months and months in Washington. Many were citizen legislators.
The one where they legally require you to buy your own private insurance and then call it universal healthcare? Yeah, I'm sure that one is costing the state billions.
It is, because if you cannot afford health insurance, the state picks up the tab. that's the whole key.
Except the state doesn't pick up the tab for everyone who can not afford health insurance. A few months ago CNN had special report on health care and part of it was about the Massachusetts system. One person in the report was a DJ for a radio station and his employer didn't offer health insurance. So he checked into getting his own. He said part of the state law was that a person who did not have or buy insurance had to pay a fine but that it would be cheaper for him to pay the fine than it was to pay for insurance. At leas the first year, because the fine increased after the first year. He simply couldn't afford insurance and the state was not helping him. According to "Mandatory Health Insurance: Wrong for Massachusetts, Wrong for America" the cost for the insurance has gone up not down.
Slashdot Mirror
You're right but I said laptop and the only other OS that comes on them, that I know of, is Linux and I have not seen a single laptop in a store with Linux preinstalled. Plus, as I said earlier, one of the reasons for getting a Mac is because I want to do photography work and well as cross platform development.
I'd be happy to give OS X a shot, but I'm not going to lock myself to a single hardware vendor.
I'm not locked into a single hardware vender. In January I replaced my HDD with a larger one that does not have the Apple brand on it anywhere. I can also put more RAM into it that's not from Apple. Actually someone at an Apple store once suggested I get a Mac with the standard amount of RAM then buy more from somewhere else because it's cheaper. The handbook I got with my Mac even shows you how to add more RAM. Neither of the external HDDs nor my printer are from Apple either.
Quite simply there is no more hardware lockin on my Mac than there is with any other laptop.
Falcon
Yes, Genius Bar. Every Apple store I know of has a Genius Bar where you can take your Mac, iPhone, or iPod to have it serviced. The only other chain store I know of that does that is Best Buy, where the Geek Squad will provide services. Notice I said chain stores, as small mom and pop stores do the same.
Falcon
There are a lot of Slashdotters who'd love to upgrade or build their own Mac. Back in January I upgraded my MacBook Pro, and I may again. I had the HDD it came with swapped out for a bigger drive, and I may add more RAM.
Falcon
Bullshit. I'll come out and say there's no god, and will not contradict what I wrote. Nowhere did I entertain that a god may exist, so don't go telling me I'm an agnostic when I know otherwise.
Bullshit I did not say you said you're agnostic, I have however said elsewhere I was. I have no idea whether there is but I'm willing to see evidence there is or is not a deity. However I see where the problem may be, in your "default assumption". The burden of proof, for and against the existence of said deity, is the responsibility of those who make the claim. I make no claim one way or the other and if someone wants to convince me otherwise they have to proof it. Now I don't know how there not being one can be proven, but a booming voice from a burning bush might convince me one existed.
Falcon
now I want a new machine and the 20" Dell is still perfect, but I can't reuse the iMac.
First off, because they are not so easy to reuse or re purpose I don't like these all-in-one computers, whether iMacs, Dell XPS One, or other all-in-one computers. To me they are a waste of resources. However you can still use the iMac. See this. It describes how you can use it with another Mac. For instance using a Firewire cable you can use it as a Firewire drive. MacOSX explains how you can use some iMacs as a second monitor. Check Can MacBook Pro laptop use IMAC monitor (easily)? as well.
Hope this helps.
Falcon
I read recently that Apple is among the worst major PC manufacturers in terms of hardware reliability.
Do you have a link? Almost every survey I've read or heard about rank Apple Macs as one of the most reliable computers.
Falcon
You don't calculate the Mac tax by comparing similar PC and Mac systems, you calculate it by comparing the PC you would buy with the Mac you'd have to buy.
After dealing with all the problems I had with Windows PCs as well as Microsoft wanting to treat me like I'm a criminal I did not want to get another Windows PC.
Falcon
On the flip side though, since I bought my wife's MacBook in August of 2007, I've had to replace a battery and the keyboard (no, nothing was spilled on/in it :-))
Really? In the about 20 months I've had my MacBook Pro I taken it to the Genius Bar in an Apple store twice. The first tyme was the day after it was delivered. When I ordered it I also ordered software for it. One program was the utility suite Tech Tool Pro 4. The day I got it I tried to boot the Mac with the disk but it didn't do anything. So the following day I rushed to an Apple store to see a Genius. That store was busy though I was there at opening, however one person set up an appointment at another Apple store, there are 4 in my area with 3 10 to 15 minutes drive. It ended up Apple had sent an older version of Tech Tool which wasn't compatible to boot with.
The second tyme I took my MBP to the Genius Bar was after the hard disk drive was replaced in January this year. After the replacement it it didn't respond for a while when I was installing Leopard. So again I went there, and made an appointment. While waiting I tried to install Leopard again. Apparently the first tyme I didn't wait long enough, I only waited about 10 minutes, because after about 15 minutes the Leopard installation started.
One of the reasons I switched from PCs to Macs is because of the trouble I've had with them. Of 4 PCs I bought new on 3 both the hdd and motherboard had to be replaced within a year. On two of those, the third came with Linux preinstalled, I had to reinstall Windows a number of tymes. And no it wasn't that I just decided to reinstall Windows. The first one started giving me problems so I called the OEM's tech support. After running through a number of tests the tech told me I needed to reinstall Windows. After that I had the same problem again with it as well as a second PC I bought new.
I understand that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but my personal experience with post-iMac G3 Apple products is that they haven't been nearly as reliable as the machines I put together myself. My iPods, Apple IIs, and older Macs all keep going like a Timex watch though.
I say the same, Windows OEM PCs weren't reliable but old Macs were. Of the three PCs I needed to replace the hdd and mobo one was a Gateway, one an HP, and the third a no name store brand. I've only been happy with the hardware on one PC, one I ordered from Microway. I agree about the older Macs, the first computer I bought was a used Mac SE30 I bought in 1992. Because it's floppy drive was only double density I think it was built in 1988, the high density floppies came out in 1989. It lasted me until 2000 when it wouldn't bootup. Shortly after that I bought another used Mac, this one a PowerMac 7300/200 which I think came out in 1996/7. It lasted until 2006 when like the SE30 it wouldn't bootup.
Falcon
You must have been looking at the wrong Dell one then
Yea, Dell makes it harder to find a computer than Apple does. Does a buyer want a Home/Home Office system, a small to medium business system, or a large business system? Of course there are other choices. And they all come with different configurations and different prices. However when I looked there was 3 Mac laptop lines, MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. It's quite easy to see which one a buyer would want to buy. I just checked Dell again. Home and Home Office does not have a 17". Small Business has three, the lowest price one is $600 whereas the other two start at $3405, $700 more than the 17" MacBook Pro. Now for large business, there are 2, the Dell Precision M6400 with a 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 17" UltraSharp(TM) WUXGA (1920x1200) RGB LED Display, 4.0GB, DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM, and 320GB Hard Drive, 7200RPM with Windows XP (which is being End of Lifed) cost $3,168. The MacBook Pro with the same configuration is $2800. What about the other one? Instead of XP it comes with Redhat Linux and cost $3090 for the same cpu, graphics, and hdd.
With the exception of the $600 laptop all of the laptops above cost more than the 17" MacBook Pro. You may say "but you looked at 17" laptops". Yes I did. One of the things I got it for, photography, the larger screen is better. For photography I also want a big hdd and high resolution display as well as a fast processor.
Falcon
People don't compare like hardware because Apple doesn't offer anything within their price range. They STILL after over 12 years DO NOT HAVE A HEADLESS MID RANGE MAC.
You have no idea how many sales Apple loses for this very reason. So you either toss away a perfectly good monitor and get an iMac or you pay a ton of money for a PowerMac.
You can use that monitor with the iMac, that way you can have two.
But I do believe Apple should have a mid range tower for not more than the price of the iMac.
Falcon
Apple's product line up has less offerings than dell, so Dell has some price points that Apple doesn't compete at.
Though they may not realize it I think that's the biggest problem people have with Mac prices. Apple does not offer as wide a range of computer lines as Dell and other OEMs do. You can't get a tower Mac, one that's expandable/upgradeable for under $2000, I just checked the Apple store online and the cheapest Mac Pro is $2499. At the low end there's the Mac Mini, then there's the all-in-one iMac desktops. If you compare the prices of the Mac Pro with similar offerings from Windows OEMs they aren't as expensive as many make out to be though.
Falcon
Personally I like the hardware and design of the MacBook Pro, the software is nice too, but for me it's not worth the extra coin.
When I switched from Windows to OS X and got my MacBook Pro I first compared it's price to those of Windows OEM laptops and the prices were comparable. While an HP laptop cost about $50 less a Dell cost about $200 more for similarly configured laptops. So I didn't pay extra. I've had my MBP for about 20 months now and in that tyme I haven't had nearly as many problems with it as I have had with the Windows, or Linux, PCs I've also had.
Falcon
I've done some C/C++ programming on Windows PCs, but not in years. Now I use Macs mostly though I also have a Linux PC and may install Ubuntu on my Mac. Objective-C is the mainstay language on Macs but I don't know if it can be programmed on Linux or Windows PCs. Anyway I want to start programming again but I want to be able to program cross platform so I'm wondering if I should stick with C/C++ or try Objective-C. Currently I'm trying to learn Java.
Falcon
Once you get pegged as a "web developer" it can be hard to get a traditional programming job.
I've heard much the same, if you get branded as a web developer you're pretty much stuck there. But if you work on more general programming paradigms then you can go into a number of different fields. At the same tyme I've also heard basically the opposite. For instance a programmer or CS major may take classes in finance, then they will be more likely to be hired by someone in finance.
Falcon
As an atheist, I wasn't aware that proving the absence of something was a requirement. I had assumed that non-existence was the default assumption, and that if there is any burden of proof it falls on someone willing to entertain a hypothesis that asserts existence of something.
This description would be more correct to say is Agnostic than Atheistic. Agnostics don't know but believe a god may exist. Atheists come right out and say a god does not exist. One is open minded and the other is just as closed minded as Fundamentalists.
Falcon
So you can still not believe in something, but still say that it might exist and we don't know, huh?
Exactly. Up until the existence or non-existence of a god is proven I will neither believe in the existence or non-existence of one. The same applies to the spirit or soul.
Falcon
functionally, Agnosticism is equivalent to Atheism.
In no way, shape, or form are agnosticism and atheism equivalent. Agnostic is "a", without and "gnosis" knowledge, "without knowledge". Atheism on the other hand is "a", without and "theism" belief in a god, ie there is no god, or "God". I am an agnostic, meaning I do not know if a god exists, but I certainly want to know one way or the other. Whereas Agnostics are open minded Atheists are not.
In the beginning, of Christianity, there were Christians who were the same and didn't believe in a god, Agnostic Christians. The early churches though persecuted them.
Falcon
From one of those pages linked to: 'The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters' (Matthew 12:30). Any "God" who requires faith in order to be "saved" is sadistic.
Falcon
One thing though is that, one day we might actually be able to prove that God does not exist.
No amount of proof will satisfy Creationists, Fundamentalists, and others. They can fall back on "well that's the way god made it."
Falcon
If you believe, and there is no God, nothing happens to you - this is the existential viewpoint. If you disbelieve, and there is a God, you are screwed - this is the religious viewpoint.
On it's face of Pascal's Wager it may seem safe to believe in "God", the problem comes in what "God" should someone believe in. If you pick the wrong "God" you're up shit creek just as much as if you don't believe. Especially if the religion comes from Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Their "God" is a jealous god. Didn't Moses smash the Ten Commandments tablet when he came down from the mount and saw the people worshiping a bull statute of the Egyptian god? Weren't the Jews then required to wander the wilderness for years before being led to the Promised Land?
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
That's how I try to look at it.
Falcon
the lack of respect most Slashdotters have for other beliefs is disheartening.
The same can be applied to believers of religion. However while Slashdotters would let Religionists live as they want, Fundimentalists of various stripes whether Christian Talibans or Muslim Talibans would force people to live the way they say.
Falcon
Religion, Divinity, even Media Studies have advanced degree programs for students interested in the topics.
But those degrees are not in science. If these people want to be able to offer a Masters then they can offer a Masters in Divinity, Religion, or Philosophy. All this is is an attempt to pass off religion as science.
Falcon
If memory serves me correctly, you could only get Betamax from Sony, and they didn't license it out for 3rd parties to produce equipment for.
Your memory is wrong then. Besides Sony, other companies offered BetaMax video recorders.
Falcon
What this boils down to, is a State Legislature that is inherently designed to be weak and making change difficult, especially at a state level. In every two year period they are allowed to meet for 140 days (barring a special session being called). Can you imagine your state legislature only meeting for 70 days a year?
Yea, I've posted before about how I wish the US congress was the same and only worked about 120 days. What you left out though was that at first those elected to office had to work for a living, unless they were wealthy, so they did not want to spend months and months in Washington. Many were citizen legislators.
Falcon
The one where they legally require you to buy your own private insurance and then call it universal healthcare? Yeah, I'm sure that one is costing the state billions.
It is, because if you cannot afford health insurance, the state picks up the tab. that's the whole key.
Except the state doesn't pick up the tab for everyone who can not afford health insurance. A few months ago CNN had special report on health care and part of it was about the Massachusetts system. One person in the report was a DJ for a radio station and his employer didn't offer health insurance. So he checked into getting his own. He said part of the state law was that a person who did not have or buy insurance had to pay a fine but that it would be cheaper for him to pay the fine than it was to pay for insurance. At leas the first year, because the fine increased after the first year. He simply couldn't afford insurance and the state was not helping him. According to "Mandatory Health Insurance: Wrong for Massachusetts, Wrong for America" the cost for the insurance has gone up not down.